/fa/ - Fashion

[Anonymous No.15770114]

will it be effay?

[Anonymous No.15770117]

>made in america by union workers
At least she's checked 1 box that people kind of support

[Anonymous No.15770131]

>>15770114
As a conservative, that's the least annoying thing she's ever done.

[Anonymous No.15770135]

conservatards triggered ecksdee

[Anonymous No.15770145]

>>15770114
Reminds me of this.

[Anonymous No.15770160]

>>15770114
I like how she's young, but I dislike everything else she's about. That being said, it's a shame that we don't see younger people in the Republican party. Or the Democratic party at large. It's all old, wrinkled, pasty reptilians. McConnell is a turtle. Pelosi is a lizard. They're all nearing octogenarian status and it's a damned shame to see these people call the shots and effect the nation.

[Anonymous No.15770163]

>>15770114
You guys ever stop and think about Hitler. He wanted the jews exterminated. What is the most racist and xenophobic country on earth? Israel. They are one of the most right wing countries. They want all Arabs shot in the head. The refuse to assimilate and they think they are God's chosen people. They sound like fucking white supremacists to me.

[Anonymous No.15770170]

>>15770160

[Anonymous No.15770203]

>>15770163
Thanks to Hitler modern Israel is based

[Anonymous No.15770237]

>>15770114
It's a very expensive sweatshirt.
Oh the ironing.

[CecilDrakeInSeattle !effayRxItQ No.15770246]

>>15770237
>designed by jordan rosenberg

Lmao.

[Anonymous No.15770255]

>>15770160
candace owens should run

[Anonymous No.15770260]

>>15770255
This.

God that would be absolutely delicious.

[Anonymous No.15770467]

>>15770237
>$58 dollars
Should say "Tax me"

[John Lemon No.15770474]

>>15770255
off a cliff

[Anonymous No.15770476]

Kek, the shirt is $58 and says "tax the rich"

[Anonymous No.15770488]

>>15770237
>Comic Sans-tier font
>designed by Jordan (((Rosenberg)))
>$58

[Anonymous No.15770529]

>>15770237
>XXXLarge
Oh say can you see

[Anonymous No.15770530]

YOU WILL BUY THE SHIRT AND EAT THE BUGS

[Anonymous No.15770570]

>>15770237
>58$
>(((Rosenberg)))
>Gender neutral fit
>XXXL
It's a parody in itself

[Anonymous No.15770583]

>>15770467
Kek

[Anonymous No.15770588]

>>15770237
>Made in the US
>WAAAAH IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE!
Well, there you go.

[Anonymous No.15770601]

>>15770114
>rich person makes edgy shirt
>poor people buy it
>rich person gets richer
>poor people get poorer
Tax the rich, yes, but it's more like buying this thing is retard tax.

And yes, a lot of politicians sell apparel but most of them don't have any qualms about getting richer.

But I'll say one thing I don't believe $58 is that outrageous. Yes it's expensive and it should be more like $48 instead but all American clothing costs about that much.
https://www.allamericanclothing.com/made-in-usa/sweatshirts.html

[Anonymous No.15770646]

>>15770237
>Very expensive
>$58
Enjoy your H&M sweatshop clothes made in Bangladesh

[Anonymous No.15770657]

>>15770237
I'm getting one to do my part in the culture war. If Faux News seethes thats good enough for me

[Anonymous No.15770666]

>>15770237
Why doesn’t it have this emoji on it? The zoomers always post this face after this statement for some reason

[Anonymous No.15770670]

>>15770657
>Faux News
Imagine singling out Fox.

[Anonymous No.15770690]

>>15770670
fox news is the only objectively true and unbiased channel left on american tv

[Anonymous No.15770703]

>>15770690
>The tru fax consooomer
You imagine the copy-past variant of this meme, I can't be fucked to make it

[Anonymous No.15770711]

>>15770237
>$58
what the fuck

[Anonymous No.15770718]

>>15770114
Isn't she rich to 99% of the population? Isn't her shirt a tax on stupid poor people?

[CecilDrakeInSeattle !effayRxItQ No.15770723]

There should be a BLM tag on it. I support BLM.

[Anonymous No.15770724]

>>15770718
>Isn't her shirt a tax on stupid poor people?
Do you actually know what a tax is?

[Anonymous No.15770730]

>>15770724
Yes. Thanks Mr Literal. Ok, I'll put it precisley so your autistic ass will not get bothered.
"Isn't her shirt an unnecessary expense to people who are poor, essentially taking their money from them by exploiting their need to virtue signal?"
Happy now?

[Anonymous No.15770735]

>>15770237
It's union made in america you fucking dipshit. Clothes are expensive when they're not made by slave labor.

[Anonymous No.15770738]

>>15770530
Take your meds

[Anonymous No.15770771]

>>15770237
>gender neutral fit
"unisex" is not hip enough?

[Anonymous No.15770775]

>>15770735
Poors aren't going to union made environmantally friendly clothes

[Anonymous No.15770776]

>>15770775
*buy

[Anonymous No.15770788]

>>15770690
no fox news is pozzed as well
watch OAN or something

[Anonymous No.15770789]

>>15770775
Lots of poor people thrift, save up for higher quality purchases and recognize that you don't need to own a shit ton of clothes. Fast fashion garbage is for bored middle class people.

[CecilDrakeInSeattle !effayRxItQ No.15770794]

they do get taxed though.. soo??

[Anonymous No.15770798]

>>15770794
Commies don't like it when companies invest most of their profits to grow their company, thus lowering their taxable income.

[Anonymous No.15770809]

>>15770735
Here's a union-made sweatshirt for half the price: https://allusaclothing.com/view-all-brands/union-line/union-line-10191-heavyweight-crewneck-sweatshirt-usa-made.html

[Anonymous No.15770811]

>>15770145
maybe they should get better jobs?

[Anonymous No.15770816]

>>15770809
>cotton/poly blend
>no size chart
Wow, wonderful quality our country is outputting

[Anonymous No.15770822]

>>15770730
Slightly, I still think you're wrong though. You're presuming the sale of this sweatshirt is the same as a company selling Che Guevara shirts or MAGA hats made in Bangladeshi sweatshops merely for profit to virtue signal about caring about workers.

We can't know what AOC is doing with the money brought in by these clothes, presumably paying US workers a fair wage to manufacture them and possibly for funding her political campaigns because god knows not even the most "progressive" and "liberal" billionaires are going to contribute to her campaigns, at least not in equal measures to other more financially conservative politicians.
If that's the case, I'd argue it's not a "tax" on virtue signalling by poor people (probably a gross projection by anons ITT) but a rational way of supporting a politician who supports and represents you.

[Anonymous No.15770865]

>>15770822
>a politician who supports and represents you

[Anonymous No.15770877]

>>15770865
No need to be disillusioned because Trump turned out to be full of shit

[Anonymous No.15770880]

>>15770237
>that little AOC

What a narcissist.

[Anonymous No.15770887]

lol at people thinking $58 is a lot for the sweatshirt, its made in usa and labor is 10x more expensive than the sweatshop chink shit y'all buying.

[Anonymous No.15770892]

>>15770887
if you've ever been involved in any kind of clothing production you'll know that the profit margins on this is shit. in china you would be pumping these out at $1 a pop.

[Anonymous No.15770911]

>>15770788
is OAN legit ?

[Anonymous No.15770959]

>>15770911
A lot more than Fox, CNN, or any mainstream media outlet when it comes to Trump or the general SJW situation.
Newsmax is also good.

[Anonymous No.15770971]

>>15770114
why do politicians have merch?

[Anonymous No.15771011]

>>15770771
unisex is an archaic term which only recognizes 2 genders

[CecilDrakeInSeattle !effayRxItQ No.15771020]

>>15771011
Yeah, it means biological male/female. What else is there? A handful of hermaphrodites maybe but that's it. I'm not sure what you mean.

[Anonymous No.15771042]

>>15770476
thats uh, not a lot of money the fuck?

[Anonymous No.15771044]

>>15770114
>implying sweaters even need to be gendered anyway
Anything that comes in a baggy cut is basically unisex.

[Anonymous No.15771047]

>>15770911
yeah if you have brainworms

[Anonymous No.15771086]

>>15770237
Get a job. $58 is not expensive.

[CecilDrakeInSeattle !effayRxItQ No.15771092]

>>15771086
That's almost 6 hours work for a low paid worker...

Sorry we are not all privileged rich little brats

[Anonymous No.15771109]

https://shop.donaldjtrump.com/products/trump-pence-kag-mens-dry-wicking-polo-white

[Anonymous No.15771203]

>>15770735
>Union made
>not slave labor

[Anonymous No.15771253]

>>15771109
>mr pibb

FALSE MESSIAH

[Anonymous No.15771271]

>>15771086
Who in the right mind would spend 58 bucks on a sweatshirt when you could probably get one for way less at your local shop.

[Anonymous No.15771278]

>>15770237
>As complained about on Fox News
Rent free.
>Made in USA
I thought they thought MiUSA was nationalistic, and therefore bad. We know AOC is a socialist, but is she nationalist too now?

[Anonymous No.15771287]

>>15770163
Really makes you think

[Anonymous No.15771296]

>>15771203
kek

[Anonymous No.15771312]

>>15771011
It refers to sex, not gender. There's nothing in the word "unisex" that implies only 2 genders, they just wanted to be trendy.
>>15771271
That $58 goes to the American economy, buying MIUSA new is unironically the more patriotic option, just don't buy one with woke moron slogans on it.
>>15771203
>Not Confederacy made
Picrel

[Anonymous No.15771383]

>>15770145
but they're union made, literally the opposite

[Anonymous No.15771387]

>>15770911
if Fox News betrayed your echo chamber

[Anonymous No.15771436]

>>15770237
>>$58 dollars is expensive
Poorfag. Also anything quality will last 5-10 times longer than Chinese garbage.

[Anonymous No.15771766]

>>15770474
chill out with the anti-black remarks, John

[Anonymous No.15771770]

>>15770530
this bitch is butt ugly ngl
that wide ass fucking garbage truck nose is just... its so big

[Anonymous No.15771773]

>>15771086
58 bucks is a full days work on minimum wage.

[Anonymous No.15771815]

>>15770237
that's pretty cheap honestly, I'm gonna cop, idk how poor you guys can be and be republican at the same time kek, pick a struggle losers

[Anonymous No.15771819]

>>15770601
being this delusional, and not knowing that the money is going to charity, kek

[Anonymous No.15771820]

>>15770114
A woman with a 100k wardrobe, personal driver, and penthouse in Brooklyn selling a shirt that says tax the rich is honestly rich in humor

[Anonymous No.15771825]

>>15770690
imagine not knowing that fox news got sued for being false news and said that their news is so fake that no one could or should be taking it seriously

[Anonymous No.15771829]

>>15770723
imagine just making yourself look stupid and acting proud about it, you're pretty much fox news

[Anonymous No.15771841]

>>15770911
OAN is just a worse fox news, and only conspiracy theorists go watch them

[Anonymous No.15771850]

>>15771011
Uni means one

[Anonymous No.15771864]

I love how Republicans totally lost their shit over this shirt.

[Anonymous No.15771896]

>>15770114
gotta out the gender neutral tag on it or how will the righties know what to be mad at

[Anonymous No.15771910]

>>15771820

[Anonymous No.15772079]

>>15771864
Did they though? The shirt is just boring merch and AOC's whole gimmick is supposedly living rent free in the right's heads, it feels like people are following a script.

[Anonymous No.15772581]

>>15771819
Even more ironic since she's going to use those donations for tax deductions

[Anonymous No.15772586]

>>15770237
At first I was going to say she is out-pricing her base, but then I remembered how many Jordans I've seen in the ghetto.

[Anonymous No.15772594]

>>15770887
Asket claims their total cost including transport is $29 to point of sale for a 100% sweatshirt made in Portugal. Either these unions are tearing ass, or she is looking at 100%+ profit margins.

[Anonymous No.15772757]

>>15770246
Oy vey! Cool it with the antisemitism!
On a side note, that sweatshirt cost $58? Merchants in the temple...

[Anonymous No.15772767]

>>15770160
Bernie and AOC are two of my favorite politicians. I disagree with them on nearly every topic, but for the most part they are good at diagnosing what ills face society, and they aren't afraid to talk about what really matters. It's a shame they are both so shit at coming up with good and feasible solutions, but I like that they are among the very very few politicians that are not absurdly corrupt. They have strong morals that they stand by, and I respect that. That being said, I am a far right fascist, and would never vote for either of them.

[Anonymous No.15772784]

>>15770114
>Tax the rich
What kind of mental illness is it that causes liberals to simultaneously be so sure of themselves and yet so unware of basic facts?
Rich people already pay the majority of taxes. Hell, most people in America are not net tax payers. For the most part only rich people are.

[Anonymous No.15772846]

>>15771436
>>15771815
Union-made sweatshirts without the political slogan costs about half that, see >>15770809

[Anonymous No.15773973]

>>15770163
>The refuse to assimilate

You mean... Israelis need to assimilate into... Israeli culture? Are you fucking retard?

>They want all Arabs shot

Sounds p based to me.

[Anonymous No.15773978]

>>15772767
>for the most part they are good at diagnosing what ills face society
no

[Anonymous No.15773985]

>>15772767
They both make surface-level observations and offer surface-level solutions. Bernie is far more deluded in his thinking and falls in line with his Neoliberal overlords just to keep getting a govt. paycheck.

His appraisal of Nordic economies is extremely misplaced.

[Anonymous No.15773997]

>>15770809
>allusaclothing.com
>union made in US
>everything is made out of cotton, is loose fit and looks like absolute cuck clothing
I wonder why people don't buy american.

[Anonymous No.15774186]

>>15772846
yeah but its also for political fund raising you fucking retard of course its going to be more expensive than a normal sweater. Half of it is a donation. Do you think the trump hats cost 35 dollars to make?

[Anonymous No.15774536]

>>15770467
or alternatively "end the ever expanding slave system that capital demands and which is finally turning inward to the American people since the nations we are accustomed to outsourcing to have effectively leveraged the means of production to increase the living standards in their home countries and now have much better national bargaining power than American citizens do in their 'service economy'."

>>15772767
> I am a far right fascist
Are you actually though? Fascism existed during an industrial era where organizing happened in the workplace and in the streets. Are you sure you're not just another neoliberal engaging in personal branding as identity politics in order to stand out amongst the hegemony?

>>15773973
Your reading comprehension is good enough to infer that anon means that Israelis aren't assimilating to a Palestinian culture. Ignoring and misunderstanding an opposing view doesn't make you smarter, so I don't know why you'd try and posture intellectual superiority when it means just not getting a point you obviously disagree with.

>>15774186
>trump hats
Not to mention those were manufactured in China

[Anonymous No.15774561]

>>15770237
>CAPITALISM IS BAD, THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD SUPPORT OUR CAUSE BY BUYING UR "CAPITALISM IS BAD" PRODUCTS

[Anonymous No.15774562]

>>15772767
Didn't Bernie get cucked by his own party twice and still sucked up to them when it's obvious that Democrats want nothing to do with him?

[Anonymous No.15774598]

>>15774561
We're all trapped in the system of profit. It's hard to blame her for trying to use the system against itself.

>>15774562
Yep. The Democrats coordinated lots of media blackouts regarding Bernie and instead promoted a senile old man who supported NAFTA and is on video threatening union workers and practically proclaiming they have no rights to arm themselves. Bernie's stance on gun ownership is much more tolerant than Biden's.
Biden also just nominated Neera Tanden for head of the OMB as a giant fuck you to Bernie. So considering how you count your cuckings that might be a third.

[Anonymous No.15774622]

>>15774598
>It's hard to blame her for trying to use the system against itself.
Except she's not. How is selling those shirts fighting anything or doing anything apart from being a scheme to get money outta some delusional idealists money?

[Anonymous No.15774623]

>>15772784
Damn I didn't know doctors, lawyers and dentists are billionaires. Crazy.

[Anonymous No.15774646]

>>15774622
Whether or not she's sincere in her proclaimed ideas is one thing. Whether she's executing her ideals effectively, if at all, is another. I think she is sincere in her aims to subvert capital. I don't know if AOC will actually have a net positive effect on the political and economic landscape, however, but I doubt it.

Nonetheless, if the politlcal game is about fundraising, and she is able to draw attention to and redirect funds towards actual American industries and Unions, that is *something* better than what most any other political candidate is doing.

It's still caught in the neoliberal paradigm of virtue-signaling, identify-your-policital-tribe consumerist American politic, but it's something.

[Anonymous No.15774678]

>>15774646
> I think she is sincere in her aims to subvert capital
Why not give the margin of the sewaters to some good good cause, or better, print them and give them to people with low income?

Also, what is the income of a trade union boss compared to a general union worker?
How much tax do they pay in comparison?
just curios because i dont know and im not trusting any politician ever, worst kind of people.

[Anonymous No.15774693]

>>15770114
I prefer real leftist apparel.

[Anonymous No.15774709]

>>15774646
Also with her ideas of open borders it makes sense shes trying to virtue signal because thousands of unskilled but cheap workforce (non-union) is a serious threat to the income of a american born worker, if those were my policies i would also try to be "down" with the proletarians.

[Anonymous No.15774783]

>>15774678
>Why not give the margin of the sweaters
Having the sweaters made is not the point. Generating income from a markup is the point. It's a lot easier to raise funds for a cause if the people with disposable income actually get something tangible in return. You can criticize people for not being direct enough in their action, but that consumerist critique is just that: a critique. Offering a solution to Americans' consumer inclinations as a whole would be a hefty academic pursuit.

Clothing is one of the things that we actually have a surplus of worldwide, so poor people are not generally in need of sweaters like this. There are other problems that plague the poor that AOC is arguably trying to use the funds received from sweater sales in order to resolve. Politically it'd be a bad move to give these particular sweaters to poor people. It would, in effect, reduce the poor to political billboards for political gain.

>Also, what is the income of a trade union boss compared to a general union worker?
How much tax do they pay in comparison?
This varies union to union, I'd imagine, and state to state. You'd have to look into individual unions and their leaders to get these answers. Generally union members have higher pay and better protections / healthcare than non-union workers. But that's just generally.

[Anonymous No.15774792]

>>15774709
Is AOC an advocate for "open borders"? Forgive me for being dense, but isn't advocacy for open borders a different political stance than requesting a streamlined path for immigrants to reach citizen status? In order to fund things like universal healthcare, it would make financial sense to want to bring as many people as you can as taxpayers. Opening borders would only obscure who is legally or illegally a citizen.

[Anonymous No.15774796]

>>15772767
>Far right
>Fascist

[Anonymous No.15774797]

>>15774693
A significantly better sweater, for sure.

[Anonymous No.15774800]

>>15770114
Aren't All Sweatshirts gender neutral

Like I feel like that's such a click baity addition

[Anonymous No.15774802]

>>15774678

Just to add to my points from >>15774783 here's a link to check out with union salaries. Keep in mind this is from a Union backed site itself, and doesn't take into consideration the backroom deals which could very well be a continued part of union leaders income, given union and trade organizers histories as being deeply embedded with the mob.

https://www.unionfacts.com/employees/AFL-CIO

[Anonymous No.15774845]

Can we please stop calling this sweatshirt a sweater? Thanks.

[Anonymous No.15774861]

>>15774792
She wants to abolish ICE, a more technically correct term than open borders would be "closed, but unenforceable". "Free healthcare to "undocumented" immigrants" is also a thing. Never overestimate American progressives.
>Opening borders would only obscure who is legally or illegally a citizen.
Now, who would want to do such a thing?

[Anonymous No.15774942]

>>15770237
More like tax the dumb niggers who buy this shit

[Anonymous No.15774957]

>>15770114
$60 for something you could make yourself for half the price or even less

[Anonymous No.15775037]

>>15770789
I don't know about that anon, I grew up working class and saw family and friend's families and even just random people I did odd jobs for had a ton of unnecessary cheap crap crowding their homes. Poor people buy a ton of shit they don't need and even don't use, I feel like "buy less, buy better" might be largely an old money thing.

[Anonymous No.15775287]

>>15770822
>MAGA hats made in Bangladeshi sweatshops
But every news outlet verified that MAGA hats were made in America

[Anonymous No.15775834]

>>15774186
>THAT SWEATER COSTS THAT MUCH BECAUSE IT'S UNION MADE IN AMERICA
>but other sweaters that are union made in America cost half
>THAT SWEATER COSTS THAT MUCH BECAUSE HALF IS DONATIONS

Cool story bro.

[Anonymous No.15775838]

>>15774536
>end the ever expanding slave system that capital demands
In other words "working for your survival is slavery".
ok there buddy

[Anonymous No.15775845]

>>15774792
>Is AOC an advocate for "open borders"?
Yes.
Pretty much the entire Dem field is.

>isn't advocacy for open borders a different political stance than requesting a streamlined path for immigrants to reach citizen status?
Legalizing illegals with zero to no effort is part of or at least a step towards open borders.

>In order to fund things like universal healthcare, it would make financial sense to want to bring as many people as you can as taxpayers.
That's a literal pyramid scheme.
You can't just destroy the identity of a country/state/district/county/town/neighborhood/... because it's better for the economy.
Not to mention the fact that it depletes the countries of origin of their most precious resource: their people.

[Anonymous No.15775850]

>>15775287

[Anonymous No.15776113]

>>15771042
Won't stop flyoverfags who shop at walmart and underage children who have no idea what shit costs from whining.

[Anonymous No.15776116]

>>15771042
It's twice the price of other US and union-made sweatshirts.

[Anonymous No.15776187]

((((((((((((intensifies))))))))))))

[Anonymous No.15776286]

>>15775834
Do you think her goal is to start a clothing line? There is a mark up because you are supposed to be buying it to support the politician. Why else would you fucking buy this.
Why is it that you go to a concert and nobody harrases the shitty metal band for having $30 gildan shirts? Because they aren't to fucking stupid to understand that the shirt is primarily to support the band who made it.

[Anonymous No.15776291]

>>15776286
>THAT SWEATER COSTS THAT MUCH BECAUSE IT'S UNION MADE IN AMERICA
>but other sweaters that are union made in America cost half
>THAT SWEATER COSTS THAT MUCH BECAUSE HALF IS DONATIONS
lel

Also, it's still delicious irony. Basically the sweatshirt is making fun of the people buying it.

[Anonymous No.15776437]

>>15774861
I don't know about you but I'm not wild about the part of our country that can prosecute people without trial.

Look, we probably don’t need to have this discussion surrounded by layers of parentheses to both agree that usury and policies which reward and reinforce rent-seeking behavior is a problem. And I bet we’d both be disgusted by the fact that protections against usury were undone in the 80s or whenever it was. But if you’re going to hint at this fascist-sympathizing anti-semitism, I’m going to tell you now that I don’t care who is in charge of the corporations and whether or not they’re Jewish, I think their usury should be punished and their monopolies disbanded. The issue with reducing this kind of thing to ethnic differences is that you end up setting a precedent for collectivizing punishment and punishing people regardless of their guilt. And I hate to break it to this board but there’s plenty of working class Jewish families who have no say or participation in global finance. And if you want to insinuate that Jews are the problem and you’d be okay with collectively purging them without trial in a manner similar to ICEs raids of illegal immigrants, and you don’t see how the boot could eventually come down on you, I don’t know what to say.
But if you are insinuating instead that corporate entities can benefit from illegal immigration by hiring people for whom they don’t need to, in turn, provide the basic necessities (insurance and proper pay for decent housing etc) that might otherwise be granted to them in a better socialized system, then we’d agree. Who would want to do such a thing? CEOs looking to take a larger and larger chunk of the companies they own at their worker's expense, despite workers' increased efficiency and productivity.

[Anonymous No.15776447]

>>15770237
WoW it’s Polyesther for 60 bucks plus shipping....bargain and it’s for sOCAlism

[Anonymous No.15776452]

>>15776437
>I'm not wild about the part of our country that can prosecute people without trial.
What are you talking about?

[CecilDrakeInSeattle !effayRxItQ No.15776457]

>>15776437
>without trial in a manner similar to ICEs raids of illegal immigrants

What is this doublespeak? They're ILLEGAL. If I go and steal from a store or even shoot someone, I get arrested because those things are ILLEGAL and yet a trial hasn't taken place.

Lmao what the fuck are people like you even talking about. It's gibberish. The second they enter a country ILLEGALLY they are suspected of a crime because that is ILLEGAL and arrested for that. If they prove not to be ILLEGAL then they are not.

[Anonymous No.15776461]

>>15770646
1.being sewn in the US doesn’t mean all it’s part were
2. There are better quality made in mexico and mede in us sweatshirts for half the price
3. At this price you can get a thermo fleeced Zipped hoodie from Carhartt on sale or a non-teddy-fleece on regular price

[Anonymous No.15776465]

>>15770711
Plus shipping

[Anonymous No.15776471]

>>15770690
Lol

[Anonymous No.15776481]

>>15771011
There are only 2 genders, and i say this as a leftist. You are mentally ill.

[Anonymous No.15776485]

>>15775845
>Legalizing illegals with zero to no effort is part of or at least a step towards open borders.
You’d have to provide a more substantive argument as to why that’s the case or even a negative thing.

>You can't just destroy the identity of a country/state/district/county/town/neighborhood/... because it's better for the economy.
Except that the United States government does so frequently, and that immigration into the United States is largely an effect of Mexicans and Latin and South Americans fleeing the failed states or fascist coups instituted by US and US backed organizations. If our country wants the resources and the political control, how can we logically bar the citizens of those countries from entering the country which actually dictates the policy and economy in their homeland?

1/2

[Anonymous No.15776493]

>>15775845
>>15776485
cont.

>That's a literal pyramid scheme.
That's an inaccurate and bad faith interpretation of how universal healthcare functions. You’re mistaking improved efficiency for a pyramid scheme. The way insurance companies work is that they rely on the fact that only a portion of their customer base will fall sick or get injured. Those that do will be covered in some instances by their insurance company, which uses money it generates from other customers in order to care for them. Everyone pays in hoping not to get sick or injured but knowing that if they do, they’ll be covered. The more people who pay in, the less proportionately each person will need to pay as the number of non-sick / non-injured people will hopefully increase in greater numbers than the number of people who fall sick or get hurt.
Except in the American insurance structure, insurance often goes through every imaginable stretch to avoid covering costs for the sick and injured. And they conspire with other insurance companies to keep costs of procedures and medications higher in order to protect the class positions of their executives and of their salaried staff.
If you were to eliminate private insurance companies and instead opt for a single-payer system as has been suggested, you would eliminate a significant degree of administrative bloat which currently inflates the costs of American healthcare. Medications and procedures could be offered at a lesser expense overall, and it would cost the individual taxpayer less per person than it currently costs the average insured person to have their insurance. It also provides an incentive for the state to keep their populations healthy, rather than an incentive to make them sick, as is currently the case with insurance companies. You keep people sick and hooked on medication, you keep the profits flowing towards executives.

2/2

[Anonymous No.15776496]

>>15776485
>You’d have to provide a more substantive argument as to why that’s the case
When you let illegals come into the country unchecked, and then provide them with a fast and easy path to citizenship, you effectively have no borders.

>Except that the United States government does so frequently
huh?

> immigration into the United States is largely an effect of Mexicans and Latin and South Americans fleeing the failed states or fascist coups instituted by US and US backed organizations
The US staged a "coup" throughout Western Europe and in Japan back in the 40s, turned out ok over there.

>how can we logically bar the citizens of those countries from entering the country which actually dictates the policy and economy in their homeland?
Just because people want to flee doesn't mean you have to open your borders, obviously.

[Anonymous No.15776499]

>>15776493
>That's an inaccurate and bad faith interpretation of how universal healthcare functions.
Buddy, you said we need "as many people as you can" to come into the country to fund universal healthcare.

Clear as day.

[CecilDrakeInSeattle !effayRxItQ No.15776502]

>>15776485
>fleeing the failed states or fascist coups instituted by US and US backed organizations

Here is an idea, why don't you weirdo leftie types focus all your energy on those at the top doing this if they are? Why do you allow them to do it and let poor average people suffer the consequences. For the most port, you even blame those poor people.

>0.1% of elite doing bad things
>the 99.9% of the people must pay for it

You're just complicit with this evil.

[Anonymous No.15776509]

>>15776452
I'm talking about ICE detaining and deporting (as separate instances, not necessarily as steps in the same process) immigrants before determining their reasons for crossing the border.

>>15776457
They're considered *illegal* immigrants by institutions like ICE before guilt of their crossing the border is proven to have been done so illegally. So you're right, I shouldn't adopt the language of politicians by calling them *illegal* immigrants before their actions have been determined by a trial to have been illegal.
The double speak occurs when we label any immigrant that crosses the southern border on foot or in a car without having done the proper paperwork beforehand. We don't generally have ICE raids on Swedish dudes who have overstayed their visas.

However, international law dictates that crossing a border if seeking refugee status is NOT illegal immigration, but ICE and border patrol frequently detain immigrants in camps inside the boundaries of the United States without allowing for due process to determine wether or not the person crossing the border was doing so in order to apply for asylum status.

oh wait this is Cecil I'm arguing with. HA. Take your meds, dude.

[Anonymous No.15776512]

>>15776509
>I'm talking about ICE detaining and deporting (as separate instances, not necessarily as steps in the same process) immigrants
lmao, you realize it's illegal to illegally cross the border, right?

>before determining their reasons for crossing the border.
Their reason changes nothing about the fact that it's illegal to illegally cross the border.

[Anonymous No.15776518]

>>15776509
>They're considered *illegal* immigrants by institutions like ICE
No, they're considered illegal by US law.

[Anonymous No.15776525]

>>15776502
>why don't you weirdo leftie types focus all your energy on those at the top doing this if they are?
Dude, you and I are on the same page here. I think most of the "leftie" shit is actually just neo-liberal grift and personal branding so individuals can posture their moral superiority and maybe earn a few bucks along the way by saying the right things until their class position is elevated because they parrot the correct talking points in their circles.

You're failing to distinguish between me as an individual and the people you are choosing to associate me with. But there are people actively working to dismantle these structures. Most of them get called anti-semites and/or wind up dead. Not infrequently because of the Clintons.

>You're just complicit with this evil
Yes. That's why it bothers me, because I identify with this country and the people in it insofar as most of us are playing the same economic game, and the rules of the game are rigged. You want to see Democrats stop shitting on poor republicans in the middle of the country? Me too, dude. I don't want to live in the dystopian technocratic future that's being built either. Even if it would mean I get out on top.

Cecil, I love and care for you dude. I hope Niki's doing alright too.

[Anonymous No.15776527]

cool off-topic /pol/ thread

Trump won btw

[CecilDrakeInSeattle !effayRxItQ No.15776534]

>>15776509
>They're considered *illegal* immigrants by institutions like ICE before guilt of their crossing the border is proven to have been done so illegally.

But that's how laws work? You're always "suspected" of a crime first rather than being proved to have done it right away.

I think a better question would be, have they arrested 50% on suspicion of illegals and being wrong or are they generally right in most cases? if 99% turn out be illegal and only 1% not, then I would say they're doing a good job, no?

>I shouldn't adopt the language of politicians by calling them *illegal* immigrants before their actions have been determined by a trial

But they are talking about the actual illegal ones. If I stab someone to death now, I haven't actually being convicted by a trial so would you say I am not murderer and let me walk free?

>The double speak occurs when we label any immigrant that crosses the southern border on foot or in a car without having done the proper paperwork beforehand.

Which makes them illegal?

>We don't generally have ICE raids on Swedish dudes who have overstayed their visas.

Because their numbers are very few and Swedish guys are not known for being cartel executioners, mass drug pushers or Islamic radicals?

Why would you focus limited resources in areas that have little evidence of such bad occurrences and not focus on the actual ones that do? Isn't that just basic good resource management?

>However, international law dictates that crossing a border if seeking refugee status is NOT illegal immigration

If you go to an asylum center then no, but these people just try to walk into a city and into the beyond.

>oh wait this is Cecil I'm arguing with. HA. Take your meds, dude.

Who is arguing here? I legit do not understand most of your points. It sounds like you're trolling because you think people can't be detained until they have had a trial?

[Anonymous No.15776542]

>>15776512
I don't think you're actually arguing against due process although you're making it hard to believe otherwise.

>it's illegal to illegally cross the border
You're operating on a circular definition here. You can't determine someone has illegally crossed the border until they have been determined unwilling to go through a process of asylum declaration unobstructed. Only then is it actually deemed illegal immigration.

>>15776518
The judicial system in the United States is supposed to operate on a "innocent until proven guilty" standard, wherein the process of being "proven guilty" must occur in court. Only then can it be determined that a crime has been committed. Effectively, institutions like ICE are currently being left to judge the guilt or innocence of a person, which flies in the face of our judicial system.

[CecilDrakeInSeattle !effayRxItQ No.15776543]

>>15776525
>Cecil, I love and care for you dude. I hope Niki's doing alright too.

Lol thanks <3

I just never understand when people are all like U HAD COLONIES IN 1820 SO YOU MUST LET 100 MILLION PEOPLE ENTER YOUR COUNTRY!!

The poor of country were exploited then and will exploited again because of it. The elite made their money then and make their money now.

I just think all sides should be targeting those people. Not poor ass John Doe.

[Anonymous No.15776570]

>>15776542
When you cross the border and don't have any papers on you, you're illegally crossing the border.
Whether you're crossing the border is in the middle of the desert at night, or riding in the passenger seat of a car full of people who are US citizens.

You are seriously deluded.

[Anonymous No.15776580]

>>15770163
>They want all Arabs shot in the head
you're talking about China and the big guy right
>They sound like fucking white supremacists to me.
but they aren't white and they have been kicked out of 109 country's because of their supremacy. Maybe it's not white people's fault like how your (((teachers))) taught you to think.

[Anonymous No.15776618]

>>15776534
>But that's how laws work?
Functionally, no, that's not how laws work. Effectively as we administer them in the United States? Yes.

>they're doing a good job, no?
I think it was Camus who said something along the lines of "if you're only metric for success is efficiency

>But they are talking about the actual illegal ones.
Frequently, they're not. They're poisining the well by characterizing them as illegal before the justice system has determined that a crime has taken place.
>If I stab someone to death now, I haven't actually being convicted by a trial so would you say I am not murderer and let me walk free?
This happens more frequently than you might believe. It's just murderers with money who pay bail get to walk free. I would defend your right and say you haven't yet been found guilty.
There are two ways I can see the way we currently handle this situation changing. Either we stop jailing criminals until they're proven guilty in which case we emprison them. Or we jail everyone every time they're suspected of a crime and we remove the option to pay bail.
Your jailing when suspected of a crime might be more appropriately left to local municipalities than to federal authorities on this one, no? I'd say let the community handle it and leave the feds out of it. That's the other distinction that needs to be made clear between how ICE / the border detention camps function and how your jailing would work.

>Which makes them illegal?
No, it does not. Entering a country without preemptively filling paperwork is permitted as long as those entering the country are seeking asylum. There is a grace period under which they are supposed to legally be permitted free travel in order to reach a courthouse where they could properly file for such documentation. This can take a while, especially if you are unfamiliar with the landscape and have no help and no vehicle to travel in.

1/2

[Anonymous No.15776654]

>>15776534
>>15776618
cont.

>but these people just try to walk into a city and into the beyond.
I'd be willing to bet that you're statistically wrong about this and that the majority makeup of ICE detention centers is composed of immigrants who had not yet been in the states past the asylum grace period, and/or have not traveled deep enough into the country in order to have approached a courthouse.

>>15776543
>I just never understand when people are all like U HAD COLONIES IN 1820
The issue is that the colonization process never stopped, it just entered a new economic and industrial / post-industrial paradigm. The Cold War had the US competing with the Soviets for territory, and all of the military tactics employed by the US since the collapse of the USSR has been to deal with the fallout. The rise of Islamic extremism correlates with US plundering and military occupations of once liberalized Islamic parts of the world. And the rise of right-wing and Christian religious extremism in the United States correlates to the plundering mechanisms that the US has since turned inwards, since we're running out of options overseas to effectively dominate.

>The poor of country were exploited then and will exploited again because of it. The elite made their money then and make their money now.
>I just think all sides should be targeting those people. Not poor ass John Doe.

Again, I couldn't agree with you more here. And to elaborate on a point earlier about >why don't you weirdo leftie types focus all your energy on those at the top doing this if they are?
I'd say the lefties don't focus their energy on solving the problems because it's easier to get rewarded for complaining about it. It's the same reason that the right wing and conservatives and fascists place blame on immigrants. It's just easier to place blame on the weak than it is to understand the true scope of the problem, let alone DO anything about it.

[Anonymous No.15776661]

>>15776570
>You are seriously deluded.
That's what people say when they don't have good grounds or ability to articulate why or how someone is deluded.

You can define a crime and be correct. Entering the country illegally is illegal. No shit. But proving that a crime has been committed and to what extent punishment should be administered is the job of the judicial system.
Defining whether or not a law is drafted appropriately and justly is one thing. Saying it should be modified to be more fair, just and effective is another thing.

Turning away someone at the border who doesn't have papers is less bad than pulling them into the country and detaining them indefinitely in institutions closed to journalists or visitors. But it is still not in conjunction with international law, if these people at the border are looking for asylum.

[Anonymous No.15776688]

>>15774536
>or alternatively "end the ever expanding slave system that capital demands and which is finally turning inward to the American people since the nations we are accustomed to outsourcing to have effectively leveraged the means of production to increase the living standards in their home countries and now have much better national bargaining power than American citizens do in their 'service economy'."
Sounds bretty nationalist.

[Anonymous No.15776696]

>>15776688
>88
Coincidence?

[Anonymous No.15776768]

>>15776661
>That's what people say when they don't have good grounds or ability to articulate why or how someone is deluded.
lmao

Crossing the border with no papers = not legal.
That's the grounds here.

>proving that a crime has been committed and to what extent punishment should be administered is the job of the judicial system.
The proof is the fact that the person crossing the border with no papers.
The "punishment" is ejection from the country.
No courts needed.
There's no "fair trial" involved here.

[Anonymous No.15776809]

>>15776768
Oh, you've got to be trolling. Do you seriously think courts only exist for the rights of a privileged minority? Do you think a man should be executed if he's found with a gun and he's within the vicinity of a murder? Because the cop has a solid hunch?

Evidence and proof are not always interchangeable terms, m'dude.

>There's no "fair trial" involved here.
Yeah, I can see that you outlined precisely the problem in the system as it occurs. That there's no fair trial. That's the issue.
>no courts needed
Well, no, not if you don't care about precedents and protections for people within the borders of this country or the world at large. You and I disagree fundamentally on the definition of justice, and unfortunately I think your brand of resentment-politics has greater representation in government.

[Anonymous No.15776815]

>>15776809
Crossing the border with no papers is illegal.
The proof is you being in the US with no papers.

Zero courts are needed to eject you from the country.

[Anonymous No.15776826]

>>15770114
Wow I am so outraged. A sweatshirt? How dare she.
I am seeing red.

[Anonymous No.15776835]

>>15776826
Nobody's outraged at her shirts. The left likes to project.

[Anonymous No.15776841]

>>15770690
I agree that they flat-out lie considerably less than CNN/MSNBC but if you don't think there's a strong lean to the right you're deluded.

[Anonymous No.15776851]

>>15776841
Fox is centre-right at best, and they're the only major news outlet that isn't far-left.
It's hilarious how the global population is brainwashed into thinking Fox is the enemy when 99% of the entire mainstream media is a far-left propaganda mill.

[Anonymous No.15776862]

>>15776835
Idk, did you see that it's gender neutral? May actually kms out of pure rage.

[Anonymous No.15776868]

>>15776862
Nobody was "outraged" at that. This is the left projecting their own outrage culture.

At most people laughed at the semantics of turning "unisex" into "gender neutral".

[Anonymous No.15776877]

>>15772767
>I like that they are among the very very few politicians that are not absurdly corrupt
Bernie Sanders is rich and did some shady shit with his wife's organization, and AOC transfered $1 million in campaign donations to a slush fund taken care of by her boyfriend. They are both absurdly corrupt.

[Anonymous No.15776999]

>>15776851
They perpetuate messages that are codified as "left" in the culture-war scheme that now dominates the what most people consider the "political landscape" but they all function on neoliberal economic principles.

>>15770690
lel
>>15776835
probably true
>>15776841
>flat-out lie considerably less than CNN/MSNBC
Really doubt that. All the listed organizations exist for profit and to keep eyes on television as to capture more attention for advertisers. So every organization has to construct its "news" according to it's base. If they offend their base too radically, they'll lose viewership.

>>15776868
This take is the most likely

>>15776877
Would love some sources on that.

[Anonymous No.15777064]

>>15772784
no

[Anonymous No.15777088]

>>15776999
>Would love some sources on that.
https://archive.vn/VTYpo
https://archive.vn/w7Cm5
https://archive.vn/wip/WFhQf
https://archive.vn/43dzz

Take it as you will, I gave you both sides of the argument. Just remember that because they were never punished for it didn't mean their shit doesn't stink.

[Anonymous No.15777121]

>>15777088
I'll check them out. Thanks.
>Just remember that because they were never punished for it didn't mean their shit doesn't stink.
I hear you on that.

[Anonymous No.15777783]

>>15771770
a hot person wouldn't write this

[Anonymous No.15777791]

>>15770237
Would cop if it didn't have her initials at the bottom. I'm on board with tax the rich, MiUSA products, and unions, but I really can't stand that smug bitch.

[Anonymous No.15777805]

>>15770530
her nose ruins her face

[Anonymous No.15777808]

>>15777783
>ur ugly teehee
hello female hows your vagina