Explain fashion to me

[Anonymous No.14138889]

I don't understand the fashion system.
The antics of haute couture, the super expensive fashion shows, the amount of money being moved, and the quite complete detachment from the fashion actually worn by people.
Wtf is this all about? What is the business model?
I can't boil it down to something that isn't money laundering, honestly.

[Anonymous No.14138896]

Badump

[Anonymous No.14138911]

>>14138889
The key of fashion system is to make people feel "wow that's fresh". This is the only way you can force them to buy stuff. So yeah, It's just renovation for the sake of renovation.
Artistic vision, poetry and other bullshit is secondary

[Anonymous No.14139102]

>>14138889
Those are some pretty manly hands, arms and shoulders

[Anonymous No.14139105]

Fashion, high fashion that is, is a meme
Just try to express what kind of person you are trough your clothes

[Anonymous No.14139121]

>>14138889
>I can't boil it down to something that isn't money laundering, honestly.
yes it's art. what did you expect?

[Anonymous No.14139175]

>>14139121
It's not art though.

[Anonymous No.14139185]

>>14138911
sniiiiiiffff...
THATS FRESH

[Anonymous No.14139294]

>>14139175
It is, though. It's been slowly reduced to a boiling pit of memefaggotry like every other form of modern art, but you asked why the fashion industry exists as it does and that is because it originated as and always has been a form of art.

'High fashion' and wearable fashion aren't the same thing.

[Anonymous No.14139298]

>>14139294
Adding to this; Like all modern art, again, it's basically a form of hedonism at it's purest. It's a way for rich people to feel rich. There's no deeper meaning to it.

[Anonymous No.14139327]

>>14139185
>>14139175
>>14138889
imagine the smell

[Anonymous No.14139384]

>>14139294
fashion is not art.

fashion is an industry and a buisness its meant to make money first and foremost. anything else is secondary. while fashion uses creative and artistic concepts to make a product it is not the same as an artist creating art.

i pose to you this: if fashion was an art why do fashion designers consistently say they are not artists and their creations are not art?

[Anonymous No.14139392]

>>14139327
i wish i could

[Anonymous No.14139393]

>>14139384
Art does not exist anymore my man

[Anonymous No.14139402]

>>14139393
sure

this post seems better suited for a response to one of the posters above me

[Anonymous No.14139807]

>>14138889
pretty sure the shows you buy tickets to attend, and a lot of the people are reporters who shell out fat stacks to attend and get VIP passes. Think of it like E3 but for clothes.

[Anonymous No.14139982]

https://youtu.be/ExLmxEhTVYw

[Anonymous No.14140058]

Watch something like SHIFT SOULS and maybe you will find something your kitsch brain can understand.

[Anonymous No.14140092]

>>14138889
High Fashion is important to culture, and society, because it pushes back against the rigid structure. Its value is not in its utility, that is just residual effect. It is Art. Expressionism in the form of clothing.

[Anonymous No.14140096]

>>14139384
sorry but you are completely and utterly incorrect.
>Fashion
is an industry
>High Fashion/Haute Couture
is Art.

[Anonymous No.14140122]

>>14139982
it might be racist, but its fire.

[Anonymous No.14140222]

>not art
Maybe for a stupid monkey like you.

[Anonymous No.14140336]

>fashion is art
Why all these faggots here saying this bullshit?
Fashion is not art.
Nobody ever claimed fashion is art, first and foremost no fashion designer claimed that.
It has completely different goals compared to the art market: it has a huge consumer retail business to fuel, to begin with.
The dialectics involved are completely different. Fashion is an unilateral statement, but has far stricter rules to follow. Art is constantly engaged in a duet with critique, but is essentially free (at least in theory).
One can say there are similitudes between the two systems, and mostly because they occasionally borrow from each other.
Stop saying "fashion is art". It's just not.

[Anonymous No.14140346]

>>14139384
>>14140336
>x is not art
surest sign of a simpleton or just all around basic person is this mindset

art is creative expression. just because a medium is more rigid in its adherence to trends and marketability doesn’t mean it is less of a medium. and high fashion certainly isn’t beholden to either of those

everything and anything can be art when subjected to aesthetic or philosophical critique. a plastic shopping bag is art. a power station is art. soviet propaganda is art. creative freedom is not a requirement because the artist (knowing or not) is not relevant

[Anonymous No.14140368]

>>14140346
>everything and anything can be art when subjected to aesthetic or philosophical critique. a plastic shopping bag is art. a power station is art. soviet propaganda is art. creative freedom is not a requirement because the artist (knowing or not) is not relevant
This is only a quite brutal negation of art disguised in politeness. It is the view on art typically held by totalitarian regimes, and more akin to that of the soviet communism.
Saying "art is creative expression" followed by "anything can be art" and "the artist is not relevant" is really a malicious sleight of hands

[Anonymous No.14140392]

>>14140368
i meant that people do not have to be aware of their expression - that they are creating art - to do so. and that art should be judged with and without considering the artist because of how reputation (or a lack thereof) affects critique.

creative freedom is necessary for a healthy society, don’t get me wrong, but not for the production of art in isolation

[Anonymous No.14140398]

>>14140336
How is Tricky Rick making some dumb shit to sell for a lot of money different to some dude smearing a canvas in a way that he knows is going to make him a lot of money?

[Anonymous No.14140443]

>>14140398
It's not different but it's not the trait that would make fashion art (and vice versa).
Both exploit techniques borrowed from advertising, but they remain very different territories.
Surely there is lot of creativity in fashion, but so in advertising, packaging, furniture design and so. But that doesn't make them forms of art.
Art, or "what makes art art", is, I think, the notion of the "disinterested act" elaborated by Kant. It might be laughable in our times, it might be obsolete, debatable for sure, but in the end it's the only tool we have to not lose the very concept of art.

[Anonymous No.14140515]

Don’t worry no one here knows anything about it either
The fashion spot is this way ->
https://forums.thefashionspot.com

[Anonymous No.14140530]

>>14140515
What's this more mainly about?
Autism? I see wristwatches threads are the most active ones.

[Anonymous No.14140532]

Autists shouldn't bother with art, your tiny brains crash when you see anything out of the ordinary and it has to be a conspiracy

[Anonymous No.14140578]

>>14140530
Mostly about discussing fashion mags and female models, also threads discussing new collections

[Anonymous No.14140591]

>>14140336
there is no art because thare are no artists anyore.
High fashion is made by the same retarded group that would put a toilet on an exhibition or can human shit. Don't get me started at "modernised" opera where you have Mozzart's Magic Flute with a fucking box of dildos.

[Anonymous No.14140604]

Runway fashion is like F1 car. It looks nothing like a normal car, nobody ever goes and buys one. They're a distillate, an essence, a Platonic ideal of "car" or more specifically "the parts of cars people enjoy most" being speed, maneuvering, etc.

Runway fashion is extremism, and it's generally NOT reflective of cultural trends, it's attempting to set them. Not at a practical level, but at a sublevel. A stylistic level. They look so weird because it's not yet established culture or aesthetic. Like wheat doesn't look like germ, but it comes from it, so too with runway fashion and styles of any given decade.

Getting angry at it won't help you understand it.

[Anonymous No.14140613]

>>14140591
>High fashion is made by the same retarded group that would put a toilet on an exhibition

Duchamp was essentially agreeing with you, funnily enough. He was basically re-stating what Voltaire said: "Define your terms" and in his case, he was saying "Well define 'art' then." That is why he put a urinal on display. Its conception and construction fit the same criteria as a sculpture, and if anything it was more useful. Why shouldn't it be "art"?

[Anonymous No.14140731]

>>14140613
he put an urinal because he couldn't do anything else yet wanted to be an artist. I takes years of hard work to learn sculpture, but why would he bother if he just could play semantics.
Also beauty is essential for art, yet modern galleries are shrines of ugliness and rot. Trully a civilization of death.

[Anonymous No.14140734]

>>14140604
F1 is a motor sport, cars must be HELLA FAST and have massive wings to do corners at insane speed, so their form is shaped by aerodynamics. This analogy doesn't hold.
>>14140613
Dadaism was essentially an anti art movement. And not the academic high brow art, but every form of art.
Like many "revolutionary movements", it took great care on how to destroy things without creating something new. Other movements, like the impressionists, parted from mainstream art but actually proposed something else.

[Anonymous No.14140912]

>>14140604
but dont these f1 cars push the boundaries of engineering ? What does rick owens do? push the boundaries of how much you will pay for sweatpants?

[Anonymous No.14140984]

>>14140096
haute couture is dress making hence an industry
"high fashion" is an industry catered to upper middle class cunts who think theyre better than normies cause their care tags say "made in italy"

and again how come now designers consider themselves artists or their works art?
>>14140346
this is quite disengenious and doesn't address the arguement being made. all you've said is fashion has the capacity to be art which i guess sure in a hypothetical thought experiment parts of fashion could be considered art when stripped of all real world context. however i have yet to see any real world examples of fashion being art so i think my skepticism is warranted.

and again sure the artist doesnt need to be aware of them making art but fashion designers are pretty adamant that they are not making art. I think i'll side with the people who are actually creating rather than some kid on 4chan who is studying a useless degree

[Anonymous No.14141000]

>>14140346
and again with this myth that high fashion isnt beholden to concepts the rest of the industry is, just because the concepts arent laid out as simply as say h&m doesn't mean theyre not also there. also high fashion has to be finnacially succesful argubly moreso than fast fashion and mall brands in terms of margins and clothes actually being sold because small indepedent designers can't afford to have a bad quarter, you have a bad quarter that means you can't afford fabrics for the next season. these brands already run skeleton crews for the most part so losing even one member of staff(baring interns) is catastrophic. i'd really like to know where /fa/ and similar forums get their ideas on the noble intentions of high fashion. its just as much as buisness and a part of an industry as any other company making clothes.

[Anonymous No.14141019]

>>14140604
do you actually look at runway fashion or do you only consume the avant garde trash that sometimes pops up on 4chan?

when you say runway do you mean haute couture or pret a porter? are you even aware of the difference or care? do you even know what those words mean?

[Anonymous No.14141021]

i hate this thread

[Anonymous No.14141364]

>>14141021
I hate this board

[Anonymous No.14141458]

>>14141364
I hate existence

[Anonymous No.14141676]

>>14141458
i hate when u think u gotta take a poop but then u dont

[Anonymous No.14141703]

>>14141676
I hate when blacks randomly start talking to me and then I have to pretend I don't hate blacks and then the brief interaction ends as I briskly walk and then run and then sprint away and they say the C word in their head. Coriander, or "nigger cat nip."

[Anonymous No.14142152]

>>14140734
a better analogy would be concept cars

[Anonymous No.14142222]

>>14141364
I hate your bread

[Anonymous No.14142243]

>>14138889
Well basically, the "outfit" in that photo is trying to convey an appreciation for ass (and possibly titties as well).

[Anonymous No.14142250]

>>14141703
I hate when I'm trying to take a shit at school and then the black people come in and shout "AYO DIS NIGGA TAKIN A DOOKIE!" while they put there phones over the stall to livestream my shame to instagram.

pic related

[Anonymous No.14142368]

>>14140912
He pushes the boundaries of FASHION and PROVIDES THOUGHT-INSPIRING PIECES you ANCIENT WHORE.
What are you doing in /fa/ in the first place?
Rick actually explains what the collection means / is meant to do in his video descriptions.

>>14138889
>One of the most profitable industries in this era
>I CAN'T BOIL IT DOWN TO SOMETHING THAT ISN'T MONEY LAUNDERING, HONESTLY
go back to that hole you just got out of, b.
If you really want to understand how fashion works, just look it up online. There's a lot of data about market growth and how much is being spent on clothing.

"Fashion is really a reflection of a given time, it's the product of everything that's going on; If a film or a musician is very successful, or any event that happens 'The first lady in a country is very beautiful', those events affect the looks. We're coming through a relatively calm period in terms of major events, there's a lot of things happening all the time but there isn't really anything major happening: the economy is not crashing or going very well, there aren't any major wars, there is no major crisis, so therefore, it's more the living trends that are influencing fashion..."


also
Do not expect fashion to be serious and tight, and do not take it seriously or personally. Complaining about runways you don't like as if you were the one financing them says a lot about you.

[Anonymous No.14142778]

>>14140604
>a Platonic ideal of "car" or more specifically "the parts of cars people enjoy most" being speed, maneuvering, etc.
>Runway fashion is extremism
this isn't true. mostly, it's the exact opposite, the actual artistic aspect of it is to show how it's a struggle between the perfect form and the irrational form. this is the highest level of artistic understanding. the struggle between form and non-form. rick owens exemplifies this with most of his work, it's purposely non-platonic, whether he knoes he is doing this consciously idk, but he went to art school for a bit, so he probaly has an inkling as to this whole struggle aspect. it's chaos/randomness vs industrialization

[Anonymous No.14142877]

>>14142368
>go back to that hole you just got out of, b.
What a bluepilled faggot lol
Fashion goes hand in hand with money laundering, as well as other "highly profitable" bullshit industries.
Aside from that, it's one of the most toxic ones from many standpoints: sustainability, pollution, offshoring, corruption, nepotism, prostitution rings, abuse... the list is long.

[Anonymous No.14142916]

>>14142250
i hate this thread

[Anonymous No.14143060]

rick owens is not haute couture

[Anonymous No.14143073]

>>14143060
LMAOOOOO rick owens is BETTER than haute couture. he's /fit/

[Anonymous No.14143105]

>>14140604
>nobody ever goes and buys one.
but thats fucking wrong you retard
runway fashion is what sells

[Anonymous No.14143272]

>>14140336
Think about what you are implying.

>kitsch isn't art
Ok brainlet.

>haute courture is kitsch
Ok brainlet

[Anonymous No.14143944]

>>14142877
Yes, you should go back to that hole you just got out of. Keep on thinking that someone's going to believe fashion 'goes hand in hand with money laundering'. Because no one buys high end clothing, right?

KEeP wOkE mY MaN

It is indeed a toxic industry, but that does not mean there's no other way of it to work. It's mostly mass producers who pollute, are corrupt and abuse people like that.

>>14143060
This. There's a whole lot of specifications for a brand / clothing line to be recognized as haute couture, Rick isn't even interested in doing it.

>>14140336
Depends on what your definition of 'art' is (even so, not all fashion would be art), but it's true, no designer claims that they're making art. Fashion is closer to a discipline than what it is to art.

>>14140591
Oh sweet baby go cry someplace else :(
>there is no art there are no artists anymore
I guess you typed it wrong because of all the tears in your eyes :(((

[Anonymous No.14144215]

>>14140604
here's your answer OP you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.14144241]

>>14140336
extremely based post

[Anonymous No.14144261]

>>14144215
but that post is wrong runway at least pret a porter is meant to be worn, its not extremist in any sense at least not the overwhelming majority of it

[Anonymous No.14144417]

>>14140731
you act like he wasn't already a successful painter before the fountain