/fa/ - Fashion

[Anonymous No.12755330]

What the fuck am I supposed to do when he dies?

[Anonymous No.12755345]

>>12755330
buy up archival shit from yahoo jp and resell to retards on grailed

[Anonymous No.12755393]

>>12755330
cry
i would

[Anonymous No.12756259]

>>12755330

Be happy for the influence he had, and that he can finally rest. I'm pretty sure he said he just wanted to suddenly die while working.

Then also realize that there are plenty of people still designing the same stuff for him and will continue to do so, but also that it's not as good as it was. Cropped wide pants covered straps with words on it.

Lemaire is the new way.

[Anonymous No.12756273]

>>12755330
I swear to fucking god the retards always hyping the shit out of yohji on this board know absolutely nothing about his work nor own any of his clothing and just name drop him cause ebin loose wavecore memes and he is just niche but well respected enough so name dropping him is "cool"
>>12756259
>influence he had
Let's see some well thought and written shit about this topic right here to start us off proving me wrong cause I am not buying this shit

I have not seen a single post on this board ever that goes to any depth about Yohji or his work, we gonna have a yohji thread, let's make it proper

[Anonymous No.12756286]

>>12756273
why don't you start before slating him faggot

[Anonymous No.12756288]

>>12755330
DONT JINX IT FAGGOT

>>12756273

>I have not seen a single post on this board ever that goes to any depth about Yohji or his work

that's because you're a newfag, you faggot

[Anonymous No.12756294]

>>12756273
He has been one of the most prominent pioneers in the last 30 years for deconstruction and asymmetry in clothes.
His prints are eye-catching but not gaudy.
The silhouettes you can put together with his clothes are pretty unique for high-fashion.
Also there is the mystery around the man himself. He's definitely selling the myth of Yohji as much as he's selling the designs themselves.
I'm no fashion expert but I can probably articulate why I like most of his designs.
He's not infallible. Last season's bondage shit was wack but overall, easily my favorite designer in terms of reliable quality.

[Anonymous No.12756297]

>>12755330
move on to craig green and cedric jacquemyn and hope they can hold the line

[Anonymous No.12756315]

>>12756288
Show me a thread.

[Anonymous No.12756332]

>>12756286
I'm not to one spouting overtly dramatic horseshit like
>What the fuck am I supposed to do when he dies?
>Then also realize that there are plenty of people still designing the same stuff for him and will continue to do so, but also that it's not as good as it was.
>>12756288
>that's because you're a newfag, you faggot
What a retort, educate me if you would be so kind and your back can take the bending that it takes to get your voice heard from your oldfag high horse to the lowly plebeian masses.
>>12756294
That's a start.
>He has been one of the most prominent pioneers in the last 30 years for deconstruction and asymmetry in clothes
How so? He hardly has pionereed assymmtery in clothing it's been prevalent since forever and even if we just take the context of designers and the pret-a-porter fashion industry that has been around for bit over 150 years, he is way too fucking late to assymmetry to call him a pioneer, I don't really buy the deconstruction either, it's such a scapegoat term in fashion anyway unless you make your point clear, deconstructed garment can mean next to anything.
>His prints are eye-catching but not gaudy.
You gotta give some reasoning m8, opinions are great but you can make someone see your point of view, that's when you have achieved something, convince me.
>The silhouettes you can put together with his clothes are pretty unique for high-fashion.
Again, you can say this basically from any avant-garde designer, not that it's point against Yohji or any of them but what it is that makes them unique?

[Anonymous No.12756339]

>>12756294
>Also there is the mystery around the man himself. He's definitely selling the myth of Yohji as much as he's selling the designs themselves.
Nah, this I don't agree at all with, he is just kind of a recluse naturally, he is very open about his influence and history whenever he opens his mouth. If anything he is just alluring character, he has the kinda old timey bohemian charm and nomadic soul that all communicates from everything he does, clothing to body language and the very thought out laconic way of speaking.

[Anonymous No.12756426]

>>12756332
>You gotta give some reasoning m8, opinions are great but you can make someone see your point of view, that's when you have achieved something, convince me.
I get what you're saying, but 2 things
1) as I said, I'm not a fashion expert. terms like "gaudy" are going to be subjective but I like his sparing use of color. It's mostly all black, which is easy to wear, with occasional eye-catching accents.
Compare to the uniformly louder stuff coming out of gucci or the mood swings of rick owens and you'll see what I mean.
Fashion houses like prada make great stuff but I'm not one for subtlety. I like things that are immediately recognizable as different.
It's hard to argue that yohji doesn't achieve this.
2) you shifted your goal posts a little in that last post. I never said I could prove he's a genius, only that I liked his clothes more than those of other contemporary designers.
That being the case, I'm not sure what you want me to persuade you about. You might as well ask me to convince you to like a food you don't enjoy.
>Again, you can say this basically from any avant-garde designer, not that it's point against Yohji or any of them but what it is that makes them unique?
so you agree that he's avante garde. ok. So one final thing I'll say about his clothes is that I like the way the look on all ages.
A lot of stuff makes people look like they're going through a mid life crisis. Full rick on a 40 year old looks silly and desperate imo.
Yohji is something I enjoy that I have confidence I will continue to enjoy into old age.
Dunno if that helps of if that's too hand wavey but we were always in de gustibus territory.
I have no formal fashion education and I won't be able to explain (assuming this is even possible) what mechanics in yohji's design makes him a good designer vs someone who just throws shit against a wall to see if it sticks.
I can only say that I like him and why

[Anonymous No.12756467]

>>12756315
>>12756332
Search the archive, there's been yohji threads in the past 2 years besides before that

[Anonymous No.12756473]

>>12755330
post your favorite yohji item that you own
or do you mean you'll just miss him in the abstract?

[Anonymous No.12756491]

>>12756426
>you shifted your goal posts
I'm not trying to create some argument here and prove you wrong or anything, trying to get real discussion going, there is no "movin goalposts" when I have no goal in the first place

[Anonymous No.12756500]

>>12756491
so I'm saying:
I can't persuade you to like something you don't and I don't have the fashion background to explain why yohji is a good designer (assuming this is the case)

[Anonymous No.12756512]

>>12756491
>>12756500
maybe someone here is better equipped to answer your question
I just chimed in because I thought if I explained why *I* like him, it might shed some light on his popularity overall

[Anonymous No.12756533]

>>12756467
Having a Yohji thread is not the same as talking about Yohji.

[Anonymous No.12756539]

>>12756533
Yes.. it is..?
I mean it in the same context, we've had threads discussing different designers, runways for ages Yohji included

[Anonymous No.12756541]

>>12756500
Yeah that's cool I can understand that, it's a gift really to be able to do that in the first place, I doubt I have the ability to really do that either but I tried to provoke you or whoever the fuck would response to at least try.
Why you like him is better than nothing, fuck, I don't have a problem with some random fuccboi saying they are into yohji or like him or whatever just cause they've seen one season and thought that loosecorewave was dope af or what ever the hell the hip terms are, just be up front and honest and share your point of view fuck.

[Anonymous No.12756550]

>>12756500
>>12756512
And not that I need you to persuade me really, I personally feel like everyone has their unique and equally wonderful and enamoring way of seeing the world and things and why they like or dislike things stems from that and I just want to understand that and try to see the world or some part of it the way they see it so that was really the 'goal' I had here if I had one.

[Anonymous No.12756649]

>>12756539
I've should have said: just because it mentions Yohji in the OP doesn't mean there's discussion about him and his work. Imagedumps don't talk. A guy posting links to articles about Yohji isn't discussion. Even in the past people don't explain themselves properly. Watching the docmentary by Wim Wenders doesn't make it clearer. In the years I've been here on /fa/ his importance has never become clear to me.

That being said, I'm going to order My Dear Bomb from my library, read it and scan it in. Maybe release a chapter each month. And I heard good stuff about him from Irene Silvagni when he gave her a coat (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lis9Ev_bPno @ 25.06 ).

[Anonymous No.12756658]

>>12756649
>A guy posting links to articles about Yohji isn't discussion. Even in the past people don't explain themselves properly.
So much fucking this.
>That being said, I'm going to order My Dear Bomb from my library
Good choice man, you won't regret it.

[Anonymous No.12756754]

>>12756273
who is your favourite designer then fucking faggot? lets hear it

[Anonymous No.12756757]

>>12756754
ralph lauren

[Anonymous No.12757445]

>>12755330
create y-4??

[Anonymous No.12757570]

>>12756473
Pretty sure it's from the 花と少年 period.

>>12756297
but I'm a weeb.

>>12756273
aight, so I wrote a thesis on yohji (and rei and issey and other Japanese presenting in paris at the time) so hopefully I can give some context. To see Yohji's importance you have to go back to when he first presented in Paris. Paris was and pretty much still is the hegemonic arena of fashion. Legitimizing your brand meant presenting in Paris. A big part of Yohji was that he and the other Japanese designers managed to penetrate into "Paris fashion that larger, more complex, and substantially older than any of the other fashion worlds" (Crane 1993: 56). The initial reception of them was that they were "Japanese designers" i.e. designing national costume, I can't find the quote but there's something like "when Yves went to Marrakesh and returns with fezs he is adapting their national dress, similar would happen if he went to Japan, his collection would appear like that of yohji, rei, etc". But this fails to grasp the unique and "black austere" of them. The construction, silhouettes, shapes, prints and fabric combinations were unlike anything seen in pret-a-porter (and haute but aside from Hanae Mori none of the Japanese were in that space). Sure, they didn't come up with asymmetry, deconstruction, etc, but it's pretty hard to come up with new techniques when clothing is fucking old and pret-a-porter arguably dates back to 1400s (also this is what makes Issey so fucking cool, his pleats are so new and he has managed to keep them fresh for what? 30 years now? amazing), but their "fashion" was genuinely something new that no one had seen especially by Paris. Their designs deemphasized the sexuality of the wearer (which as mode in paris fashion and continues to be) [http://www.kci.or.jp/en/archives/digital_archives/1980s/KCI_262 this is a beautiful early comme piece that if you have a chance to go to kyoto you should def check out).

[Anonymous No.12757575]

>TFW you will never own the Yohji Evangelion collab Asuka coat

Plz :(

[Anonymous No.12757577]

>>12757570

I can't really tell you why from a technical position yohji is important (I'm a Japanese student not fashion) but culturally they were something new something pretty alien to Paris fashion, but they continue to innovate and have had a huge influence (arguably " ebin loose wavecore memes" has a direct influence from yohji and the gang). Without these early Japanese designers we wouldn't have Junya, Sacai, Undercover, etc. Also, they changed fashion consumption in Japan, which while it might not effect you, was a huge deal in their burgeoning economy.
But at the end of the day, I would prefer to shit post yohji. I've been meaning to do a translation of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TINmAOTA6VM for a while which is pretty good, much better than the shithouse wim wenders does.

[Anonymous No.12758004]

>>12756754
pls
I never said I don't like yohji, you are reading way too much in to the post because you obviously got triggered cause something hit too close to home
>>12757570
>>12757577
Very nice man
I remember reading from some book how yohji and cdg rocked the fuck out of Paris with their few seasons, getting really good reception but people were way too weirded out by the clothing back then and too set on the European and specifically french 'chic' that was the accepted status quo so while people loved the shows, it took few seasons before they actually adopted the styles.
I'd add A-POC to Issey's credit as well honestly, while the pleats are nothing short of innovation, A-POC is fucking crazy, straight up sci-fi shit. And if you reflect it as a sign of times, all the technological advancement and smartdevices we have in our hands and parallel the A-POC technology to birth of modern sewing machine and industrial revolution it's just mindblowing.

[Anonymous No.12758013]

>>12757570
Can you post the thesis, or maybe just the list of references?
What about Kansai Yamamoto? He came before them, right?
I'd like to know where the technical innovation comes from. Geographical isolation? Frustration with France?

[Anonymous No.12759064]

>>12757577
Who or what can explain from a technical position why Yohji is important?

[Anonymous No.12759446]

>>12759064
Not thesis-anon, but I don't think yohji is actually as important to fashion history like other designers such as (but not limited to) Vionnet, Balenciaga, or Issey, from a technical standpoint. We also have to think about fashion from a sociological and cultural perspective, to which previous anon explained Yohji's influence. The oversized Japanese silhouette built upon Issey's legacy. Without deconstruction Yohji and Rei probably wouldn't have been able to pave the way for designers like Margiela. Yohji has some beautiful pattern cutting though, take for example this jacket inspired by a victorian riding habit/rococo robe a l'anglaise, but with a kimono sleeve where the shoulder seam at the armhole transitions into a princess bodice seam in the back. but instead of filling in the underarm/undersleeve area like a european-tailored jacket, it's been left open for movement, like a traditional kimono. The skirt portion is most likely a large rectilinear shape, tucked and pleated to look like the back of a robe a l'anglaise skirt or a bustle. It really shows his mastery in pattern cutting and his ability to merge European and Japanese tastes.

>>12756294
>>12756339
I definitely agree with first anon about the brand selling the myth behind the man, if you compare a lot of his 90's work with his stuff from recent collections, his signature and paintings are more prominently displayed on garments in order to appeal to a younger, more brand-conscious generation. Just going through the yohji tag on instagram, people are obsessed with the signature blazer, the yohji homme T-shirt, and the signature tote bag, saying they are "anti-fashion" or quoting that quote about black/perfection/young people.

[Anonymous No.12759509]

>>12756273
Like some others in this thread I'm in no way equipped to objectively argue about his influence or technical skill so I apologize in advance for not being able to articulate this shit.

Personally I like his garments because I enjoy the sometimes somewhat gimmicky details, the way the material feels and looks and the way the clothes are designed to drape on the wearer. Especially with the more intricate pieces you can notice how deliberate every part of the design is.

Some might argue that every season looks the same - while this certainly holds true for some parts, I think it speaks for the fact that Yohji has found his aesthetic and sticks to it. I don't mind this as I enjoy his designs regardless and I believe it adds to the "timeless" aspect of his clothing where something he designed thirty years ago can still be worn today.

In the end my fondness of his clothes might just be one of those things where I simply bought into the meme and am now at the stage of trying to justify it to others, but I really don't care just because I feel good wearing his stuff

[Anonymous No.12759657]

>>12755345
How do you go about finding designer and buying it on yahoo jp, ive always wanted to do it but never knew where to start

[Anonymous No.12759661]

>>12757575
>Asuka

[Anonymous No.12760344]

rate my y-3 fit

[Anonymous No.12760429]

>>12755330
>not throwing yourself on his funeral pyre

[Anonymous No.12760512]

>>12759661
Is shit

[Anonymous No.12760554]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=974rJ5qxtJ0

[Anonymous No.12761387]

bump

[Anonymous No.12762349]

bump

[Anonymous No.12762651]

>>12758004
oh shit, how could If forget APOC? You're right, it's space-age shit.

>>12758013
thinking about going to make it a master's thesis (was only an honours thesis) so gotta keep that shit under-wraps.
Yeah, Kansai (the lesser-known yamamoto) was 1974. Japanese working in Paris can be divided into three movements by Kenzo, Yohji Rei Issey, and Hanae Mori, and Kansai hasn't really had the lasting influence of the others.
My thesis was on orientalism and Japanese fashion designers, so these were some of my references:
Re-Orienting Fashion - The chapter by lise skov is great. Anything by lise skov is good.
Fashion Zeitgeist - Pretentious but worth a read.
When clothes become fashion
The cutting edge fashion from japan - The editorials are pretty tame, and I'm not a fan of Bonnie English as a scholar or at least when she discusses Japanese designers.
About Face Performing Race in Fashion and Theater.

>>12759446
>The oversized Japanese silhouette built upon Issey's legacy. Without deconstruction Yohji and Rei probably wouldn't have been able to pave the way for designers like Margiela.
This is funny because I don't think (particularly) Yohji was out to revolutionise that silhouette "Actually, I'm interested in keeping the shapes simple, and for me eighty percent of the collection is making new fabrics" (in Gottfried 1982: 5), he was proud of his black and white wool jacquards and his washed wool.

>>12759509
One of the reasons I love yohji is because of the deep pockets he does. Reminds me of that putting a sandwich in Rick Owens. I can put my 8inch tablet in my yohji jacket, love it.

[Anonymous No.12763452]

>>12759446
>Without deconstruction Yohji and Rei probably wouldn't have been able to pave the way for designers like Margiela.
word

[Anonymous No.12763737]

>>12759446
Alright, but who or what talks about them on a technical level? Fashion Design schools? The Cutting Class?

[Anonymous No.12764460]

>>12763737
The Cutting Class is really good for their individual collection breakdowns to the most minute details. Design/polytechnic school will definitely give you the skills to delve deeper and gain further insight into garment construction, but that's a 2-4 year investment haha. Definitely check out Fashion Zeitgeist like >>12762651 recommended, there are some pretty good garment analyses which look at how certain materials/visual references are used to explain the importance of some of the most important designers working today.

>>12762651
>This is funny because I don't think (particularly) Yohji was out to revolutionise that silhouette
I definitely don't think so either! it just so happens he and rei were in the "wrong" place at the right time. Because yohji's cuts are so classic and less prone to changing over the years I think he hasn't radicalized fashion as much as Rei has.

[Anonymous No.12765660]

bump

[Anonymous No.12765663]

>>12757570
Lord this is beautiful

[Anonymous No.12766353]

>>12762651
>Kansai hasn't really had the lasting influence of the others.
How come?

Why does Yohji use the colour black?

[Anonymous No.12767008]

>>12766353
can't really say why he didn't become popular not really familiar with his work. not even sure if he's shows in the 70s and 80s even featured his signature momoyama prints.
That isn't to say he wasn't important, he, Junko Koshino, Yukiko Hanai and 3 others set up the TD6 (Top Designers 6) which was a Japanese response to the pret-a-porter organization of Paris, but even that didn't pick up steam til 1982.
I would love to see what the curriculum for Bunka fashion school was at the time.

I don't know exactly why yohji uses black so much. There's a lot of speculation, and a whole bunch of quotes that goes with it, but I would really be interested in a aesthetic break down of yohji's use of black. I want to buy this book and translate it to see if there's a better idea here http://ebay.to/2jE1uDk

>>12759446
I personally also think that without the Japanese Wave we wouldn't have the Antwerp Six.

>>12765663
it is! And the farbic is acetate. It was this silk-ish quality that feels great against the skin. I usually pair it with Raf Simons "New Kids Inc" Hoodie/Parka from "Consumed" for huge torso silhouette.

[Anonymous No.12767050]

>>12756273
i sometimes wonder how new an anon can possibly be
i think you've answered that for me

[Anonymous No.12767988]

bump

[Anonymous No.12768045]

>>12767050
>absolutely fuck all to say or prove the guy wrong
>let me hop on high horse and talk down on him anyway
and maybe try reading the thread entirely next time

[Anonymous No.12768168]

>>12768045
>needing to say anything at all to prove how retarded that poster is
i'm sorry i hurt your feelings, anon
maybe if you weren't so new you'd have a thicker skin

[Anonymous No.12768175]

>>12768168
No, I mean read the fucking thread, the guy basically said he just provoked to get discussion going and it actually worked and the thread is pretty good you absolute fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.12768183]

>>12768175
>i-i was just pretending to be retarded!
さすが、アノンくん

[Anonymous No.12768200]

>>12768183
>i-i was just pretending to be retarded!
Yeah, see that was the comment I expected you to spout once you actually got 20 posts in to the thread instead of being reactionary faggot shitting up actually good thread for once in this shithole just to feel better about yourself trying to put some anonymous sad fuck down on anime forum for rags.
But at least you feel lot better about yourself right about now right?

[Anonymous No.12768212]

>>12768200
i'm sure dragging the quality of your incredible posts down, friendo!
keep projecting! ;)

[Anonymous No.12768230]

>>12768212
I didn't claim I'm any better ya frciking retard, I'm just saying, it's anonymous fucking image board, you don't get upvotes for claiming you are better than someone, nobody fucking cares if you have been here since 2007 and have all the big boy oldfag points in the world, contribute if you have something worthwhile to say or no one will take your horseshit seriously.
Just jumping in to a thread and sperging out over some post 4 days ago without saying anything yourself is the image board equivalent of
>*teleports behind you*
>heh, nothing personnel kiddo

[Anonymous No.12768269]

>>12768230
>le funny sampsons imaeg
i fully respect your opinion and i take you very seriously

[Anonymous No.12768644]

I'm reading an entry about the development of the Russian Fashion Press in the eighteenth and nineteenth century for my Fashion Minor. How did the Fashion Press develop in Japan?

[Anonymous No.12768664]

good thread

[Anonymous No.12768670]

>>12767008
wasn't rick hugely influenced by rei too?

[Anonymous No.12768883]

>>12767008
You could send them an email about the curriculum? Isn't that archived?

[Anonymous No.12770026]

bump

[Anonymous No.12770034]

where can I buy good knockoff y-3s?

[Anonymous No.12771089]

bump

[Anonymous No.12771610]

Does Yohji long for death? Why?

[Anonymous No.12772704]

bump

[Anonymous No.12773864]

http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/YyVFIbeT/file.html

[Anonymous No.12773894]

>>12770034
google

[Anonymous No.12774758]

>>12773864
easier and less suss to get from libgen but yes, this is a fantastic book. Kawamura is a top-notch scholar (trying to study under her for a semester).

>>12768883
That shit is pretty much only available to scholars and since I haven't even got an advisor it would be hard.

>>12768644
That's a really interesting question. I have no idea but my guess would be something around the meiji restoration. Maybe earlier. They've been printing newspapers since 17th century?

>>12771610
I recently watched the doco and it just seemed that he was tired so very tired.

[Anonymous No.12775009]

>>12756297
craig green can definitely carry on his legacy

[Anonymous No.12775549]

>>12774758
It's an excerpt from Fashion Theory, not the entire book.

[Anonymous No.12775554]

>>12755330
my grandpa will never die

[Anonymous No.12775887]

does anyone know what shirts he uses in his shows?
the jackets and pants are obviously easy enough to find but I can never find the shirts he uses for sale. I was even in the flagship tokyo store a few weeks ago and didn't see anything like this.
Does he fill in basics with stuff from Y's? do the shirts just sell out really quickly? or do most buyers just focus on pants, cloaks and jackets so the shirts are harder to find?

[Anonymous No.12776840]

>>12775887
>or do most buyers just focus on pants, cloaks and jackets so the shirts are harder to find?
pretty much this. It's a real shame as well. The button downs barely get sold. The lastest shirt that got sold alot was this one, and that's because it was like a "hype" piece. And I love yohji button downs.

[Anonymous No.12776860]

>>12776840
Guy who sold me shit at the Yohji flagship was wearing this with some balloon pants.
I was going to mention this as a notable exception but in general I have a lot of trouble finding his button downs. Even on grailed and other second hand sites.

[Anonymous No.12776891]

>>12776860
yeah, they always seem to be wearing the hype pieces whenever I go there. In 2012 they were wearing the blanket coats.
It really annoys me because I own a few yohji button downs and they are phenomenal >>12757570 for instance, or this rayon floral pattern shirt. His cotton shirts are great but when it's some different fabric it's usually amazing.

[Anonymous No.12776893]

>>12768230
please don't stop, this is great

[Anonymous No.12776898]

>>12776891
So bottom line. W2c? I guess I'm fucked and my choices are hype pieces or Y's

[Anonymous No.12777457]

>>12776898
eBay and yahoo auctions for older pieces.

[Anonymous No.12778789]

>implying I'd let this thread die

[Anonymous No.12779920]

>>12778789
I don't know man.

[Anonymous No.12780343]

>>12778789
It's served its purpose.

[Anonymous No.12780360]

>>12778789
Why the fuck not, there is obviously no discussion, bumping dead threads is basically shit posting