/fa/ - Fashion

very little

>>7419875
he's a douchebag and wastes water

rather pop molly

fashion equivalent of glossy top 40 pop. he's in it to make money and splash in wealthy waters. not saying he's not good at his job, but there's no artistry

I've only heard his name in trash rap idk who he is

>ask rick dickriders what they think about one of the only designers who regularly draws from classic menswear designs
>expect interesting answers

>>7419947
seriously this, so much this.

>>7419947
>one of the only designers who regularly draws from classic menswear designs

lol

>>7419947
Pretty much, these people cant comprehend or appreciate anything that isn't nigger shoes and skirts. Its all "dadcore".


God I fucking remember when those dadcore spammers murdered menswear on this board.

>>7419958
>>one of the only designers who regularly draws from classic menswear designs

l
o
l

He's a decent film maker

>>7419973
>>>one of the only designers who regularly draws from classic menswear designs

pot kvk

>>7419976
>>>>one of the only designers who regularly draws from classic menswear designs

etc

Easily one of the best in the business, and certainly highly respected by anyone who's anyone.

I appreciate what Jay was trying to do with his shout out on MCHG, but I'm worried the brand will start to see some serious prole drift in the near future which would not be good for anyone.

>>7419904

Meanwhile you have cretins like this who know absolutely nothing about fashion, the industry or aesthetics and who just talk out their asses, most likely because they are either A: Rick Owens dickriders, or B: Broke as fuck

>>7419958
>>7419973
>>7419976
>>7419982
LOL
I can't believe how willfully ignorant #menswear people actually are.

>>7419992

I have him filtered, what's he been posting?

>>7419875

seems like a character out of zoolander, his hair piece is ridiculous, and he is a manlet. fuck his middlebrow tastes.

>>7419994

freakshow!

>>7419994
can we talk about:
fashion
the industry
and aesthetics

>>7419999
>i have him filtered
>obviously knows it's twerk

yikes

nice quads tho

>>7420013
it shows you the name on filtered posts

>>7419994
You seem to be knowledgeable. Can you talk about what makes Tom Ford "easily one of the best in the business"?

>>7420017
oh #newfag sry guys disregard

wtf is the point of filtering then

>>7419875
HES THE EPITOME OF STYLE, AND CLASS, AND LUXURY, AND EVERYTHING GOOD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F_ZKfgRcbY

>>7420012

talk

>>7420031
god he seems like such a dick

>>7420028
c.f. >>7420027
because i was under the impression that tom ford doesn't know the first thing about constructing or designing clothing, and has simply surrounded himself with (questionable) talent, and does little else but release the same clothing in new fabrications and colorways season after season, and that on top of his hacktitude he's also a massive cunt and treats the people around him like shit. can you shed some light on this?

>>7419947
People here like Thom Browne, because he doesn't just ripoff "classic" designs, he actually gives them his own slant.

Unlike Tom Ford.

Also, Tom Ford was the original fedora-meister, I remember reading some interview by him when he talked about how people laughed at him for carrying a briefcase all throughout high school, just because he thought it was "classy".

>>7420045
i fully agree with you, but rick also just releases new fabrications and colorways each season

he said ut himself

>>7420045
Yeah, that's pretty accurate.

He's one of those designers who takes himself absolutely seriously, even though he's a hack. He can say all that crap with a straight-face and still think he's somehow revolutionizing menswear. Takes talent to have so little self-awareness I suppose.

>>7420059
rick's usage of blocks...

>>7420059
>>7420072
is actually really brilliant, and very inspirational for anyone who is serious about learning fashion design.

what he does isn't anything like tom ford; he has a very broad design vocabulary that he's constant refining and evolving, and while there's definitely a particular rick aesthetic, it draws from an incredibly broad range of sources.

>>7420080
>>7420072
want to explain his use of blocks in some depth?

>>7420080
what little tom ford had to say hardly merited a whole collection; his ouvere is handled far better by labels like incotex which actually take their pursuit of perfection very seriously and so have an excuse for meticulously reworking the same thing season after season.

>>7420027

One of the many things that makes TF unique is the fact that he went to school like many designers, but wound up getting a degree in architecture.

He was soon hired to design collections for several houses, most notably YSL and Gucci. At the time TF took over as creative director, Gucci was suffering financially, and there were talks within the family of breaking the company up and auctioning parts of it off. Tom Ford's collection would rescue Gucci from dissolution and also prevent it from being absorbed into the LVMH bubbles.

He rose to prominence with these brands and was soon among the most respected names in fashion, but he was not happy with his position and after several years he resigned. Shortly thereafter, he produced a film which did fairly well. He then decided to start a new brand that would be American in origin but Italian in design.

Tom Ford the brand is essentially perfectionism made material. His fabrics and leathers are sourced from Zenga, an outstanding manufacturer in its own right. He has stated again and again that the reason he chooses to work at the upper echelon of fashion is because there is simply more freedom where money is no object. In many respects he has become a figurehead and leader in the world of menswear. The most obvious example of this are the flared lapels he puts on his jackets and coats that are slowly becoming more common every season.

Unlike other designers (Rick Owen included) he uses fabrics from a diverse color palette. There are no gossamer fabrics sewn on for effect, nor will you see the kind of runaway tomfoolery (things that cannot possibly be worn in a civilized setting) that is so tediously repeated season after season by other designers.

Everything is tailored to an extent. Most of his use of contrast is kept between materials, while the colors remain consistent. He does not make sneakers, but his shoes and boots are more or less staple pieces.

>>7420100
rick doesn't reinvent his language every season because it isn't relevant to his character; tom ford doesn't reinvent himself ever because he's just not very creative.

>>7420096
one you create a garment, you can take away the purely stylistic elements and use it as a block; you can turn one jacket into a lot of jacket by just slashing away and replacing the lapels, the pockets, the collar, and so forth. most designers are really hamfisted about this, and if you're observant you can go through a store and look and see that all the jackets and shirts and pants are the same thing with the pocket styles changed. low level mall labels actually license their designs, and you can go from one store to another and spot them selling the same sweater or top with merely different fabrications, or maybe they added epaulettes....

rick uses blocks, using blocks is necessary to actually get collection done in a timely manner, but he removes whole panels and replaces them completely, and he alters blocks so thoroughly that you can't see the original anymore. go to any rick stockist, and look at the men's leather jackets, and you'll see that they're all actually identical, except that he's completely cut away the front panels and drafted completed new ones to replace them. and then when he's done with that, he goes back, and cuts away the back panels and totally reworks them, then he does the sleeves, then he remixes all of these panels together and the result is an avalanche of wildly variant pieces all built on the same foundation.

>>7420100

Please give me one reason not to write you off as another insufferable Rick Owens nuthugger on /fa/

Because it seems to me that you really have no canon of taste apart from Rick and Not Rick

twerk how do you know so much about everything?

>>7420130
i really don't care what you write me off as.

>>7420138
endless research on absolutely all topics.

http://vimeo.com/34182744

>/fa/ in charge of knowing anything about Tom Ford before talking shit

At least watch the fucking documentary, you might actually learn something

>>7420141
but what does /fa/ add to your research? how do i start my own endless research?

>>7420126
r u saying that he takes a template and changes every bit of it section by section until it isn't really based on the same template anymore except for that it was derived from it

just wondering if I got the gist of it right :^)

>>7420126
you can take away the purely stylistic elements and use it as a block; you can turn one jacket into a lot of jacket

This diction irks me so much.

>>7420126
so if he is completely reworking them what is the point of even starting from a block in the first place?

and do you have pic examples of how he reworks them?

>rick doesn't reinvent his language every season because it isn't relevant to his character; tom ford doesn't reinvent himself ever because he's just not very creative.
how the fuck can you possibly know that, rick dickrider for sure.

>>7420130
Just in this thread alone he's posted plenty besides Rick.....................

>>7420162
dickriding isn't bad, what are you dedicated to in life?

>>7420151
i kno u think im rly cool but im actually a huge nerd, i used to read the dictionaries and memorize the specifications of warships when i was little because grade school wasn't stimulating enough. go sign up for a library card and read history books, go google reference media instead of liking banal shit on facebook, just spend ur time differently m8

>>7420155
yeah, that's how all designers work, or in tom ford's case it's how his assistants work because he doesn't know how to make clothes. they also slowly release new templates and incorporate them into their oeuvre.

>>7420158
i write almost all posts stream of consciousness and do not proofread :)

>>7420159
it streamlines the design process and reigns in r&d and the expense of test fitting, and it's absolutely the only way for collections to be completed in time

>>7420162
some of us can actually engage design in a way that goes beyond "wow sick fit w2c"

>>7420188

>those fucking suits
Pretty much the best looking Men's suit/tux out there, m8. Love the stuff he did for the James Bond films.

>>7420166
lmao 10/10 post

>>7420188
ooh ok ty

>>7420188
is anti-intellectualism /fa/?

>>7420204

>>7420207
absolutely not

>>7420208

OP here. I have to say that I never really expected /fa/ to even have an opinion at all about Tom Ford.

For me, I've only recently stumbled upon an article from a magazine which will not be named. I liked his sense of style and did some background research on him. Pretty interesting stuff. Credited with pretty much saving Gucci and making YSL a known brand, too.

I'm not a guy who follows the latest fashion or the industry itself. He may be a hack recycling the same shit year after year and he is probably a douchebag in real life as well. But he seems to know what he's doing and I like that he brought his vision of menswear into the mainstream.

>>7420024
to let him know you filtered him

>>7420188
theres no way of you attributing ricks lack of change because "it doesnt fit his character" yet tom ford somehow lacks creativity. You dont know these people, you never will. You are attributing negative qualities to tom ford because you dont like him. You attribute good qualities to rick cuz you like his clothes. Its kind of like sports figures and sports fan bases. You cant look past your prejudices

>>7420217
can we talk about:
fashion
the industry
and aesthetics
specifically, what you know about them? or are you going to claim that i have a bias instead of demonstrating why such a bias might be incorrect? all we have in this thread is a solid argument about why tom ford might be a useless lout, some acquiescence that he at least saved gucci financially, and, you, doing whatever it is that you're trying to do.

>>7420214
>Credited with pretty much saving Gucci and making YSL a known brand
>making YSL a known brand

lol

>>7420214
>I never really expected /fa/ to even have an opinion at all about Tom Ford.

Jay Z namedropped him in a mainstream song. Every fuccboi knows what you know about him by now.

>>7419875
what jacket is he wearing
looks to be suede, looks incredible
if it's velvet then nevermind.

>>7420126

My chief objection to Rick is that his designs have no foundation in kinesthetics or optics. They're literally castles of abstraction made material, the equivalent of Hegel's dialectics parsed through the lens of fashion.

So many of his designs are borderline incoherent aesthetically. It's a few simple core themes endlessly elaborated, subtracted, supplemented, and altered. Cloud molding through the medium of fabric. He is highly innovative, but the ambit of his original structuring is sharply circumscribed. And on top of that, he blithely insists on employing fabrics that reflect light in the flattest possible spectrum.

It will seem very crass when taken out of context, but I cannot help drawing attention to the fact that Owens is himself aesthetically hideous, whilst Ford easily satisfies any available criteria for physical beauty. Owen's love of gossamer themes and almost sickly tailoring is a reflection of the designer himself, whereas Ford's garments are structurally robust and richly refractive.

We're all entitled to our opinions here. You have yours and I have mine. I just don't understand the fascination with Owens at all. To me his design philosophy seems almost halituous, in the sense that if you tried to 'set your foot on it' as it were, you would fall straight through.

>>7420217
do you think these designers exist in a vacuum? not only do they have to make information about their design and production operations readily available as part of what they do, they are also subject to high scrutiny by the most experienced fashion and garment industry critics alive. go read what tim blanks or cathy horyn has to say on rick versus what they have to say on tom ford and then tell them ITS JUST THEIR OPINION LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>7420141

Just please tell me why there is such an obsession with overly large high top sneakers and a wardrobe dominated by deconstructed pieces. The ubiquity of the goth ninja archetype isn't something to be proud of - you are all a part of a manufactured aesthetic.

>>7420222
rick's design language is firmly entrenched in the history of womenswear, so i'm not surprised that you're missing the point so dramatically.

>>7420228
>hiphop/rapfags namedropping brands
I fucking hate this nonsense
>tfw would love Gucci but

>>7420240
who said anything about hi tops and deconstruction?

>>7420222
What a confused and overly verbose piece of writing. Are you poet's protege or something?

>To me his design philosophy seems almost halituous, in the sense that if you tried to 'set your foot on it' as it were, you would fall straight through.

How? He has a consistent design philosophy.


>>7420226
>I read a lot about fashion online so i don't have to back up my arguments with evidence.

are there any designers who make clothes for the heck of it, like they don't care about fashion history, they just care about putting shit out there that they like? would givency be one of those labels?

>>7420240
lol what
have you ever actually looked at even one rick owens runway show?
he rarely shows sneakers on the runway. rarely = maybe once every THREE seasons. you know what he does show? meticulously crafted organza gowns, silk blazers, polished leather boots...can you provide even one example of a "deconstructed piece?"

>>7420241

And you think Ford's isn't? Have you even looked at one of his womenswear collections?

The difference with Ford is that he makes it a point to keep menswear and womenswear speaking two different languages. Conceptually there is overlap, but in the final expression he draws a very sharp line between them.

>>7420255
I think Givenchy is actually the farthest you can get from that.

You want brands like CCP, Carpe Diem and subsidiaries, et cetera.

>>7420241
>>7420222
i want to be a little more concise here; that florid post was a really long red herring and i can't find any way to appreciate it except as such. really, talking about the designer's physical appearance? tom ford's face kind of epitomizes punchability, too.

>>7420263
Post it in the sufu thread or get out.

>>7420265
i thought ccp put a lot of thought into his work and looked at fashion history but i know very little and am ready to be corrected

do you have an article or something on this i can read?

>>7420269
what thread

>>7420264
what is the merit of that?

>>7420269
i don't have a sufu account.

I really hope I never get this deep about fashion. All this hullabaloo about fucking opinions on a highly subjective topic

>>7420281
what

all brands "look at fashion history"
a brand that wasnt influenced by fashion history would make like potato sacks and nothing else

>>7420263

He's 51 years old. He's probably got some of the best genes in the world.

>>7420279
http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/topic/124572-punchable-faces/

>>7420264
> he draws a very sharp line between them.

cool now i can be a boy! I'm a boyy!!!

>>7420281
look at the thread on sz maybe? I think he is probably more concerned with his garments/vision than being part of the fashion industry. I don't know though.

>>7420263
yea but rick owens is literally one of the ugliest motherfuckers I have ever seen. Hes like one step away from being Quasimodo

>>7420305

>>7420292
his acrid character twists it into this haughty scowl so all i can appreciate about him is that his body language tells me to avoid him before i have to suffer his voice.

>>7420289

The sexes are two. Man and woman form a complement. Physically and mentally they are markedly different. Why should the most outward and superficial expression of that difference not reflect the fact that there a definite line between masculine and feminine? It would be absurd and reproductively foolish to make a weak distinction.

>>7420312
If you post it i promise to +10 rep you.

>>7420319
my species doesn't exhibit sexual dimorphism, i am afraid i will never understand your human ways

>>7420319
because some want to create an aesthetic with their clothing not show their gender.

I know that you can do both. But it is more limited that way.

also

>reproductively foolish

lol

>>7420259

>are you poet's protege or something

>>7420323
i don't want to punch him tho

>>7420319
>Why should the most outward and superficial expression of that difference not reflect the fact that there a definite line between masculine and feminine?

not everyone needs to do that tho
what if some ppl wanna do sumthn diff :^)

>>7420334
you're such a cool cat nana

I'll call you nana so that you know it's me :)

>>7420259

I actually happen to be Poet's nemesis.

>>7420337
thanx nephew

>>7420351
r u the guy i talked to about korean plastic surgery

>>7420245
>taking fashion advice from hip-hop songs.

>>7420357

I don't recall that conversation, but it may very well be.

This post was how it all started with me and Poet. He's been very keen on holding a grudge ever since.

>>7420383
anorak?

>>7420383
are you the lord of digital monsters

>>7420383
pretty good post.

>>7420222
In english nigga!

>>7420393
no it isn't.

>>7420397
no it isn't.

>>7420383
here's the full thread:
http://fuuka.warosu.org/fa/thread/S5974960#p5975190
before anyone gets to thinking that anyone was actually holding a grudge against this guy, and not just refusing to yield to a maelstrom of mystifyingly deep-seated ignorance.

>>7420386

Indeed I am

>>7420383
can you simplify this? you're saying that males decide what they find attractive. not nature? looks interesting

>>7420405

>mfw this bullshit lives forever

this is too much

>>7420415
"homosexuals and women are responsible for fashion models being very skinny because as anyone could tell a heterosexual male would only dress things he wants to fuck"

>>7420405
>Deferral and neglect of the duties related to motherhood would be my first card.
What the fuck? This is making me so fucking uncomfortable. This guy obviously has some insane mommy issues...and probably some issues with repressed homosexuality too

>>7420405
>>7420408
ooh

okay

>>7420425
how does he support that? i thought designers chose whatever they felt worked with their brand image. what do you think?

>>7420425

Posit an alternate thesis then champ, I'd love to hear it.

>>7420313

TF: 'No, it’s a horrible job. I feel really sorry for models. I’m serious. It’s a horrible job. They get rejected and treated like they’re not even people. And this sounds negative, but when you’re considered one of the most beautiful women in the world, it’s very, very hard when that starts to slip away. It’s hard to feel good about yourself when people react to you differently. And, Gisele, I hope you’re not reading this, because it is going to sound negative, but I know through some of my best friends who are really famous actresses— I’m not going to mention their names—who were at one point considered to be among the most beautiful women in the world at different periods of time, and how hard it is for them emotionally. So I hope Gisele is prepared for that, because it’s so difficult. It’ll be the same for you when you quit playing football, it’ll be a real change. Could you see yourself just retiring and not doing anything but playing golf and tennis and taking care of your kids?'

>Tom Ford
>Asshole

pick one faggot

>>7420383
I feel like he just said what everyone has been saying about why skinny girls are used as models in a more convoluted pretentious way

>>7420447
wait was he talking tom brady?

>>7420431
rick owens did, but only because he's in a comfortable position now and can risk people getting too worked up about his choice of models. yohji yamamoto does, but only on his men's runway. helmut lang did, but he had massive balls, and he just showed a handful of unusual models next to agency models (rick used to do that too)

everyone else just asks the agencies to send them some candidates, and the only girls the agencies are interested in are the archetype we are all familiar with.

>>7420405

This is neat. You have any of the other threads where they went at it? I can remember there being a few but I didn't save them.

>>7420457

He was interviewing Brady, yeah.

http://www.vman.com/site/content/108/dog-days-are-over

I have no problem with Tom Ford but I find that all of the people who consider him a ~*~REAL~*~ designer and look down upon more creative, colourful, interesting fashion are generally snobby faggots.

>>7420459
thanks for answering

>>7420470
probably kate moss and calvin klein

>>7420459

But what I'm asking is where does that archetype come from? How did it originate? Who is responsible for making it the archetype?

>>7419875
I cone here to look for dope jawnz that I can enjoy and look good in.

Why do these fashion nerds have to ruin everything?

Why can't they just go to SZ?

>>7420470
it's because the models are suppose to act like hangers for the clothes

when you hang clothes it looks similar to a model wearing them, anyway there are other types of models, too: plus sized, petite, face, body, glamour, etc

>>7420470
I tried asking this to my friend who has no concept of other beauty except tall and skinny or athletic/swimmers build. He basically said that "fashion is supposed to portray an ideal, a fantasy" and I asked him who decided that it was ideal to look like that but he gave me a roundabout answer saying something about being at the peak of health and whatever other bullshit reason people give for thinking that slim/athletic is the only type of beautiful.

>>7420489
do we have the same friend? i asked a friend why he chose to wear graphic t-shirts and baggy jeans. he told me evolution and natural selection was why.

>>7420463
fuuka.warosu.org/fa/thread/S5976790
fuuka.warosu.org/fa/thread/S6721662

buncha nerd shit

>>7420256

Assuming that I can provide a qualified piece of criticism on the guy, yes - I have looked at a few of his shows. There are forty examples of the stuff in his 2014 RTW collection for spring. Heck, sneakers are the dominant option for footwear in the show's entirety. I'm certainly not about that "all-sneakers" life, so he can fall back. Call me when he's offering an oxford or blucher.

>>7420515
can you find the sneakers in fall 2013

>>7420512

many thanks

>>7420512

fucking rekt lol

>>7420545
lol
>i can't think of a tenable argument so i'll just bow out now! the world is too scawwy!!!!!

>>7420515

You're saying alot of words but I still fail to understand what exactly you're tryin to argue... So you don't really like his work? Ok cool

>>7419994
>>7420045
>>7420100
>>7420080
>>7420130
>>7420151
>>7420155
>>7420159
>>7420163
>>7420188
>>7420214
>>7420226
>>7420308
>>7420330
>>7420383
>>7420447
>>7420459
>>7420499

>actually talking about fashion
fucking gay lol

>>7420499
nah my friend at least dresses well

>>7420313
It's official, twerk it is genuinely frightened by masculinity and views it as an oppressive and negative thing

>>7420330
It's official, twerk it is a tumblr feminist.

pic related, this was probably twerk it

>>7420635
frightened isn't the word. oh no.

>>7419875
used to like his suits and shirting now not so much

5 button and lapels scream im wearing tom ford, it looks horrible but ITS TOM FORD IT DOESN'T NEED TO LOOK GOOD TOM FORD
THE GUY THAT SAVED GUCCI TOM FORD FUCK YEAH IM WEARING IT

>>7420635
>lizard

>>7420674

http://www.tomford.com/#/en/menswear/spring/summer-2014

sieg pls, these suits are beautiful

>>7419875
completely not my style but seriously have you seen people wearing it irl? looks great.
makes most other formal wear look shoddy

>>7420042
"we want to keep who they are, just help find the best version of themselves"
wow what a dick

>>7420227
A better way to say this is he made YSL relevant again after Gucci acquired it.

>>7420255
Thom Browne just does what he wants, literally sells many of the runway stuff in stores and has done pretty well. THOUGH recently he has launched or is planning to launch a traditionally tailored line of menswear with his signature proportions, i.e. boring suits so people can pretend to wear TB without taking the risk. So idk if he has been doing bad financially, but I cannot imagine so after doing work for the president.

balding

>>7420123
Thanks for your post, I learned quite a bit. This is more about his success as a businessman, however. You've given few things to hang my hat on, and I take issue with them as follows:

a) He uses excellent quality fabrics. Surely I can agree that this is part of what constitutes quality, but why does TF get credit for something Zegna had already been doing? And further: excellent fabrics don't make you an excellent designer. You could use the best, most unique, interesting etc fabics and in the world and still produce something disagreeable.

b) The fact that something he did became trendy (flared lapels) is not evidence that he is a profound or interesting designer; there are lots of trends in fashion that catch and are awful.

c) He uses lots of colors. Sure, and designers like Carri Munden and Henrik Vibskov use a 'diverse' color pallette, that doesn't make them great.

d) Everything is tailored. I'm not sure what you mean by 'tailored' here. How is an off-the-rack suit tailored? Unless you mean the pants are cut like so, tapered or some such. In this regard, how are TF's clothes any more 'tailored' than say Dior Homme, which had severe tapering in the leg, darts in the shoulders of shirts and in the back seat of pants? Lots of other labels peer to TF also 'tailor' their suits: Paul Smith )the main line, not the diffusion stuff) RLPL, Canali, etc.

In order to be convinced I'd want to hear a more robust explanation of the substance of his suit-making. Design and production in particular.