/fa/ - Fashion

>>7071698
>look everyone i found this one thing
>this proves that everything else everywhere is just as bad as this one thing

>>7071698
fuck off

sage

IT IS "CULTURAL MARXISM".

THAT STYLE, FOR INSTANCE, SHOWS HOW "EUROPEAN MUSLIFICATION" IS NOW SEEPING INTO FASHION.

>>7071698
you just don't get it

dont worry too much about nerd

>>7071725
you didn't even sage brahbrah. thx4dabump

>>7071716
show me good avant garde fashion and how it contributes to human expression. and no don't show me rick owens getting a bunch of fat black step dancers and dressing them in black leather

>>7071728
op here. this is a reasonable answer

but why would someone buy this? why is it 800? it should be reserved for runways then no?

>>7071728
>>7071728
>>7071728
>>7071728
>>7071728

>>7071698
1. cause the design is unique
2. cause it is all hand made, thus hours for labor go into the price, no one works for free
3. the material is probably somekind of silk
4. its art

>>7071747
>but why would someone buy this?

YOU COULD ALSO ASK:

WHY WOULD ANYONE CONSUME "KROKODIL", KNOWING ITS CONSEQUENCES?

WHY WOULD ANYONE MUTILATE HIS/HER OWN GENITALS?

WHY WOULD ANYONE PUBLICLY PROTEST NAKED, WITH "ANTIPATRIARCHY" SLOGANS WRITTEN ALL OVER THEIR BODY?

WHY WOULD ANYONE SUPPORT MISCEGENATION IN FAVOR OF ALLEGED "DIVERSITY", WHEN MISCEGENATION ACTUALLY DESTROYS DIVERSITY?

ETCETERA.

THE ANSWER IS: BECAUSE THEY ARE SOCIOCULTURAL DEGENERATES, AND/OR MENTALLY UNSTABLE.

>>7071744
you know sage is invisible now right

anyways some folks appreciate the process that goes behind designing pieces and all this art stuff that kindda flies over my head cus i'm not the greatest at critical analysis but i respect

>>7071747
for the same reason people buy paintings, collect records, furniture, and rent movies: they have money they wanna use on their interest/hobby/passion

can you articulate why you believe that it is the "worst form of art/expression"?

>>7071813
>expression
"Trying to talk with your clothes is passive-aggressive."

-Rick Owens

Read More http://www.details.com/style-advice/rules-of-style/200903/rules-of-style-from-designer-rick-owens#ixzz2hlJxt7W3

>>7071780
you could also ask:

why would someone with no interest in fashion go on a fashion board

the answer is: hes an autistic loser with nothing better to do

>>7071830
>ttp://www.details.com/style-advice/rules-of-style/200903/rules-of-style-from-designer-rick-owens#ixzz2hlJxt7W3
>I hate rings and bracelets on men
>wears bracelets for his ss'14 show
Fuckin bullshitter

>>7071698
Lol, that's what's fun about it.

It's all shit and all hype.

it's hilarious.

>>7071865
92IQ

what do goth ninjas and people that dress in a hundred layers of black clothing even do

like I can't imagine one of them going to McDonald's for a quick bite and then catching a movie and a beer with some friends afterwards

do they just stand in the shadows and look dark?

>>7071830

hates rules ur mad fukbwoi 4 thinking dis ting is sum propa knowledge shit innit blud


we all subconsciously talk with our clothes tho

how somebody dresses themself reveals a lot about them whether they like it or not

>>7071902
> going to McDonald's
>going to cinema in 2013
>drinking beer
>2013
i-is that lvl of pleb even possible?

>>7071813

thats such an unimaginative portrait

>>7071902
one time my friend lit a bonfire and i was shying away because i was wearing knit pants that i had just spent a lot of time fixing and i didn't want to patch holes again and the fire was spewing embers....

other than that man, it's pretty wearable. you won't catch me in mcdonald's because i respect my body but i'll go to this place i know that has bomb ass tamales. oh, my friends wears tons of carpe diem and sartoria dynasty stuff and he eats mexican a lot too.

>>7071902
from what is see in nyc: they are outside in the smoking section of venues or shopping or taking the train

>>7071930
Lol, you're such a dork.

>>7071941
not the 1st time ive been told that
but i wear rick owens doesnt that make me cool??

>>7071902

>people that dress in a hundred layers of black clothing

lmao

is this what mfa povvos actually believe

>>7071914
obviously, but that doesnt make it any less passive aggressive

It's pretty silly how people always target the designers who produce this stuff and never question the customers. There is a reason you see it year after year and it's because it sells. If it didn't they wouldn't make it. Why does anything expensive and frivolous exist? Because there are eccentric people out there who make ten times what you do, that's why.

Here's a simple exercise next time you question the price of something:

Take a decimal off the end. That's what it's like for rich people. Now look at the price, is it that bad? Probably not but in some cases something might be so ridiculous that it's still hard to justify. Alright then, take two decimals off the end and look at the price. That's what it's like for ultra rich people. The people who are buying those Balaclavas are so loaded that it's like $8 for them. Would you buy one at that price? Sure you would. I've watched Chinese billionaires walk into boutiques and buy shit like that to wear to dinner and then leave it in the hotel when they check out.

You have no idea how much money there is out there.

Now lets go back to the designers. Put yourself in their shoes, if you knew that people like that were out there, why wouldn't you sell to them?

This has nothing to do with art or taste or whatever, it's all dollars and cents. This customer isn't any more stupid or ridiculous than you are when you buy a goofy novelty t-shirt at a souvenir store that you only wear once or twice.

I dunno why these conversations get all convoluted with philosophical debates about value and art, all it seriously comes down to is that there are ultra rich people out there and you can make a business out of selling to them so why not?

>>7072065
out of curiosity do you know if thamanyah sells well?
iirc i dont think he's doing too well.

>>7072065
nice vans m9
do u kno of ne chinese billionaires lookin 4 a qt nxtlvl boitoi

>>7072065
i see your concern for contributing quality posts to /fa/ but honestly this could be summarized as easily as the person speaking about something being to unbearable in aesthetic in price and everyone will laugh at them are honestly the ones that wish they could afford there grail pieces lmfao

>>7072087

Has he not expanded his offerings every season since he started showing? Seems like he's doing fine to me. Most designers die in the first couple seasons anyway and he's over that hump. At his price point he only needs a handful of stockists anyway. Look at someone like Todd Lynn he's been around for 10~ years, doing the gothninja aesthetic for ages. He makes bespoke clothes for celebrities and his ready to wear floats between 10-20 stockists. His aesthetic is actually really clean and a lot less hackneyed than most of his peers. Has anyone heard of him? Nope, and yet he can exist and make great clothes and do it at a high level and there are a ton of designers out there just like him.

Just because he's not on a massive upward trajectory doesn't mean he's faltering. Thamanyah is going to be more like Todd Lynn than Damir Doma. He's going to amass a small following of customers and stockists who dig what he does and slowly build a business, this is how most independent designers operate. I think there's a belief that everyone should be like Damir Doma and just go up and up and up every season until he's everywhere. This actually isn't just a public misconception but a business misconception as well. A lot of investors want to see Damir Doma like growth or they drop the brand and that's not how successful fashion brands are built. Rick Owens is arguably the most successful example of this aesthetic and he followed the same strategy that Thamanyah, Todd Lynn, et al. have.

>>7072225

What I'm more interested in is how Thamanyah's line does in the middle east. #4 in Kuwait stocks him (http://shopnumber4.com/men/brands/thamanyah.html?limit=all)) but I don't really know any other avant-garde stores in the region although I have to assume he has at least a few stockists in his home UAE. What I'm wondering is how much business he does there vs. the rest of the world. That's more interesting to me because there are a ton of young designers right now that are doing ethnic stuff based on their own culture and I don't see it doing well in the west. I want to know if he's breaking that mould or if it really is only selling where it's familiar.

Never seen this designer before now, but stuff like this is way more exciting to me than Rick Owens.

>>7072225
i don't follow his work that closely but i don't really think it's expanded, if anything diluted (will get to later)
i don't think he's really ever contributed anything that interesting. i've kind of always been confused by his work, like all of it already existed perfectly fine and perhaps even better in the culture. he kind of just reappropriated it for western markets (???) at first with a more tailored garment with luxury materials. perhaps thoughtless though.
now it's kind of gone the way of the rick (similar to gareth) i think where he's realised his initial vision kind of sucked and he needs to put more thought into making a truely inspiring pieces with a strong conceptual world opposed to half-assed regurgitations of existing design. but i think he's kind of fallen into a dark place under rick where he's just ribbing on his stuff

i think owenscorp really boosted him through his initial years i don't know why, i think because he's a young arab with a moneyed back round and michele was going through a 'middle-east' bender.
i havent heard of todd lynn but i dont think it's comparable to Ahmed Abdelrahman.

http://www.businessoffashion.com/2012/09/the-spotlight-thamanyah-by-ahmed-abdelrahman.html
he kind of sounds ignorant
also uae youth are kind of scum, perhaps worse than saudi royalty but definitely debatable.
idk if he's uae national (heritage).

i think ink also stocks but iirc #4 and ink SEEM to just stock EVERYONE and dont mind making loses, i think they have REALLY solid financial backing by moneyed up financers

probably more comparable to ziggy chen, another i don't really follow and/or like.
maybe they're just young though idk i think their initial visions where just kind of weak and maybe niave in intent but who knows~

i think there is like 1 stockist (IF in dubai) that does yohji yamamoto, ann d etc etc and might stock him but i haven't found any otherwise.
i actually don't know if a lot of people dig his stuff like...1/2

>>7072344
...someone could get the authentic designs in whatever materials they wanted done bespoke by old arabic tailors in bahrain or s/t if they really liked the aesthetics, why go through him?
i think he's progressing a but now though idk - more info req.

>>7072344

>i don't follow his work that closely but i don't really think it's expanded

There's more of it now than when he launched a couple years ago. It started off as not much more than the Kandora's now there's more pants, suits, jackets, coats, accessories etc.

>i don't think he's really ever contributed anything that interesting.

He's been around for like 2-3 years, you have ridiculous expectations. Not to mention he's one of the very few new designers that actually has put forward something new and interesting. How many middle eastern designers are there doing ethnic avant-garde? Seriously, what the hell, how is this stuff not interesting?

>i've kind of always been confused by his work, like all of it already existed perfectly fine and perhaps even better in the culture. he kind of just reappropriated it for western markets (???) at first with a more tailored garment with luxury materials. perhaps thoughtless though.

He explained it in the interview you linked, almost all Kandora's are mass produced in China now, he wanted to start making them again with much higher quality materials and labour. He just made them for himself at first before he was "discovered" by Lamy. He needed more than just the Kandora's to fill out a collection so he decided his angle was going to be mixing East with West and I think it's pretty straight forward and there's not much to get. Eastern garments with western fabrication and construction it's the inverse of something like Visvim.

>i think owenscorp really boosted him through his initial years i don't know why,

What do you mean "think" ? It says right in your link that the whole thing was orchestrated by Lamy and Owenscorp, it never would have happened without them, he wasn't even doing a line before that.

>i think because he's a young arab with a moneyed back round and michele was going through a 'middle-east' bender.

This is a really ignorant and retarded thing to say.

You know how many wannabe moneyed designers there are out there? You know how strong of an eye Lamy has? You know how few people Owenscorp has picked up? This wouldn't have happened without a lot of people giving the green light. The companies behind his line don't just pick people up off the street and give them the type of backing he's got. This was a very calculated decision and not something made on a whim.

>he kind of sounds ignorant also uae youth are kind of scum, perhaps worse than saudi royalty but definitely debatable.

Jesus, what the fuck is your problem? What does any of this have to do with anything? You sound like a fucking gossip columnist.

>i think ink also stocks but iirc #4 and ink SEEM to just stock EVERYONE and dont mind making loses, i think they have REALLY solid financial backing by moneyed up financers

You have almost no understanding of the business side of fashion please shut the fuck up. Fashion is a business, it's not a playground. It's very competitive and you don't have "hobby" stores or designers doing whatever the hell they want and not caring if it turns a profit. Sure you have people like that come along once in a while but they are gone in a couple of seasons, that or they're Hussein Chalayan. #4 and Ink are two of the biggest avant-garde stores on the planet, in two of the largest markets for designer clothes on the planet, the middle east and China. They have massive buying budgets because they turnover a massive amount of product. The thought that they're "hobby" stores run for kicks by some deep pocketed eccentrics is one of the most idiotic things I've read from you. Get a grip.

>...someone could get the authentic designs in whatever materials they wanted done bespoke by old arabic tailors in bahrain or s/t if they really liked the aesthetics, why go through him?

What the fuck? This line of reasoning is totally retarded. I shouldn't even need to extrapolate. This is like asking why does any designer clothing exist...

>>7072512
it's not really that ridiculous especially compared to a lot of younger designers now...(inaisce, grareth, sruli etc etc) who produce really interesting novel work from the get go.
>middle eastern designers are there doing ethnic avant-garde
why does his heritage matter? we're looking at the work not genealogy.

>, almost all Kandora's are mass produced in China
it's easy to find arabic tailors in bazaars to make a bespoke pair.
that's actually a really ignorant statement...
>almost all clothing is mass produced in china anyway so it's not really a strong ground to launch a collection because 'shit's made in china'.

the lamly support thing was in response to...
>Most designers die in the first couple seasons
where if you're strongly financially supported by such an amazing group it's unlikely finances are going to be anissue.

michele is quoted on the middle eastern bender thing btw.

you say that but have you seen how gareth and thamanyah are doing? they're losing a lot of what they once were imo, early days though.
>don't just pick people up off the street
i think you'd be suprised.

>What does any of this have to do with anything?
ethos is important in design vision, a spoiled twerp is unlikely to suceed.

> business side of fashion
money and money?
what more is there to go?

>This line of reasoning is totally retarded.
i forgot to mention it could be done cheaper then buying pieces off him.

>>7072559
soz into timer on comp was running so rushed last 2...

i guess just to ratify my stance on botique economics...

lmao...ummm
have you ever been to kuwait???
i cant spak on ink but by looking at how steeply they hit sales it's kind of indiacative of really strong finance and low clientele(?).
i mean...have you ever visited the site during sales?
just to touch on kuwait and middle east consumer markets...i've been through the richest parts of it only to not find a single '''''"~"!"!~avant garde~@~!@~!@~ designer label botique or branch.
like....i don't know if #4 makes up all their sales online or s/t or there is some sort of gigantic hidden consumer base in kuwait but i kind of just think it's a hobby store.

like....i don't think you know arabic culture/society at all lol.

just to drill the last point because i didnt think i would need to connect the dots like this...
someone interested in thamanyahs designs (heavy derivative of already existing arabic cultural garments) would know of arabic culture and society, if they are capable of buying his garments perhaps they can afford a trip to a place whos culture they are interested in, if that were the case they could commission a bespoke authentic arabic garment/jacket at 1/4 with comparable textiles.
but i guess niave consumers that are willing to throw 1000s at exotic designs w/o context will always exist.

>>7071762
Thread should've ended with this post.

>>7072515
also iirc japan and china are leading luxury consumers...
most arabic populations dont indulge in luxury labels outside of the LMVH circles.

>#4 and Ink are two of the biggest avant-garde stores on the planet
could i get a source on this?

>>7071902
They're urban exploring, on rooftops and in metro tunnels, abandoned buildings and restricted areas. Otherwise they're on the train or smoking in an alley

>>7072559

>why does his heritage matter? we're looking at the work not genealogy.

Heritage is a huge aspect of any designer and in this case it's especially significant because 1) his designs are so ethnically orientated 2) there's so few people of his background working in avant-garde fashion.

>it's easy to find arabic tailors in bazaars to make a bespoke pair.

I refuse to break down why this is so retarded. Why are you so totally clueless? He cannot produce what a bespoke tailor in the middle east is offering and a bespoke tailor in the middle east cannot produce what he is offering. They are a fucking universe apart. The argument that one exists and therefore that other shouldn't is one of the most flawed arguments in fashion.

>almost all clothing is mass produced in china anyway so it's not really a strong ground to launch a collection because 'shit's made in china'.

But it IS a great reason to launch a collection and is exactly what almost everything is being based on now. Because everything is made in China these days the main selling point of designer and especially avant-garde clothing is precisely that it's NOT made in China. Heritage and Artisanal are the two biggest buzz words in fashion at the moment. This IS the current mode.

>>7072619
>>7072564

why can't we just be friends? :^)

>where if you're strongly financially supported by such an amazing group it's unlikely finances are going to be anissue.

If his line was tanking in the first couple seasons it doesn't matter how deep his backers pockets are, they either would have made radical changes or dropped him. Once again this is a business.

>you say that but have you seen how gareth and thamanyah are doing? they're losing a lot of what they once were imo, early days though.

Did you read nothing of what I wrote about Todd Lynn? Pugh and Thamanyah have gotten a vastly disproportionate amount of press considering the age and maturity of their brands. With their business models it typically takes 10-15 years to get truly established and start drawing in real recognition and profit. They are doing absolutely fine and both have incredibly sharp backers. Whatever little seasonal dips they have means nothing. They're stocked in some of the best stores on the planet and thanks to Owenscorp are meeting deliveries and keeping up to snuff quality wise (which is the two hardest things for young designers). They're going to continue to slowly grow their brands and the fact that they aren't growing at the rate of someone like Damir Doma means nothing.

>ethos is important in design vision, a spoiled twerp is unlikely to suceed.

No actually, maybe in your make believe fantasy world where good triumphs over evil but in reality how you personally feel about someone means very little regarding whether they succeed or not.

>>7072638
this is good discussion, man. anorak and tl have just always been super spiteful towards each other; that doesn't mean their arguing isn't valuable. would you rather it was just
>fuck you fuccboi
>whatever u mad
shut the fuck up

>>7072619
heritage doesn't really matter...
if you mean sort of the experience that is associated with certain backgrounds then yes...but like...this is kind of stupid. the heirtage is independent of the thought and process, it's some RNG shit and is no means of exclusivity or novelty.
a french guy growing up in the middle east could do it and as long as his experience was thorough and execution precise his heritage wouldn't matter.
a lot of designers in the !~@!~E#~!#~avant garde~@~!#~@!~@ realm go mostly anonymous anyway. only real dorks look them up.

his earlier collections were like 1:1 existing arabic designs in appropriations for western bodies and using different textiles.
an arabic tailor with decades more experience could easily produce the product even without the reference because FROM THE LOOKS OF THINGS it is entirely derivative
even then you could produce a very similar product on instruction by requesting and describing personal details etc etc
having said that ive never handled his shit, only seen the earlier jpgs.

>But it IS a great reason to launch a collection and is exactly what almost everything is being based on now
i think we perceive china as 2 different things. perhaps you consider it as some sort of leviathan of the worst consumerist practicies and the further a producer is the better? its just a means of which clothes is produced to me, nothing i really tolerate but that kind of practice is not exclusive to china and isnt consistent throughout all of china so for me 'shit's made in china' as a reason to produce a line not made in china doesn't make sense...
>you could make it in china using reputable fabrications.
idk really to me i dont care if something is made in china as long as it's ethical and the quality exists like...what the fuck is this generalisation?

>>7072619
Ano, if you have the time, could you rattle off some of your favorite boutiques in NYC? Maybe if you know of any lesser-known ones, not just the ol IF/Patron/Hotoveli roster.

>>7072647
>Once again this is a business.
i totally get this idea but when then this is owenscorp and they also foster gareth. i dont think gareth sells very well, or only has now after about half a decade of endeavour and tinkering?
idk is gareth getting traction?
is so, perhaps this is just the way of things in '@(!()@!&$()!@&fashun@!Y()!@ where you really have to live on flakes of zinc for a few years and push your work to produce a stable consumer base.
perhaps just early days for thymanyah, not reasonable to try and forcast success.

i didnt read the todd lynn shit B)
yeah i definitely see your point and they are doing really well given the context and time they've been hustling.

ethos isnt important in production? i guess this is a reality in the consumer market anyway, consdering he's already under the umbrella of owenscorp prob not going to fade.

>>7072658
>anorak and tl have just always been super spiteful towards each other; that doesn't mean their arguing isn't valuable.

#teamanorak

Turnleft is an Internet dope and a racist; Anorak knows things and gets deliciously catty.

>>7072675
i was in hotoveli for the first time the other day -- they have such bizarre stock. i'm wondering if it's a seasonal thing ... absolutely overflowing with 10 sei & isaac sellam but absent of anything else of real note besides the most standard guidi models & forme d'expression standbys w/ the major exception of some incredible rick pieces that i had never seen anywhere else in person or on the internet.
>a polite sage

>>7072564
>>7072574

#4 has one of the largest buying budgets of all the independent boutiques out there. It's a hub for the entire middle east. It's been around for 5~ years and the buys have gotten larger and larger with each season. Exact same story with Ink and China.

Are they more popular than LVMH et al. ? No of course not and they never will be but they're very far away from being hobbies.

>just to drill the last point because i didnt think i would need to connect the dots like this...

I already said I have no idea how well his stuff does in the middle east. My point is his product exists on a global scale where as local middle eastern bespoke tailors don't. It's like asking why have Paul Smith when there's Savile Row. They are not the same customer at all and I don't need to know jack shit about the middle east to tell you the person going to bespoke Kandora tailors and the person buying avant-garde Parisian fashion are totally different.

>could i get a source on this?

Go looking for stores with larger inventories, you wont find many.

>>7072715
>largest buying budgets
this could be indicative of successful sales or...really strong financer. given that it was founded 2008 and is in one of the more well off middle eastern countries im kind of going w/ the later.

>two of the largest markets for designer clothes on the planet, the middle east and China
this is wrong
but if it were correct you would be implying that because #4 exists in a demographic which consumes a lot of luxury fashion then it gets a lot of flow from the same demographic
which simply isnt true
as stated w/ the link with LMVH groups (i wasnt suggesting #4 was more popular than LMVH rather that if it did exsit in a place where luxury fashion is consumed at that kind of rate it would be because they're buying stacks of dior denim and true religion, not gareth pugh zebra print overalls.)

you missed the dots...
IM ASSUMING if someone is interested in thymanyahs design they are 1) interested in arabic culture or 2) brainless dolts that throw money at shit.
hoping they are 1) if they can afford thymanyah they can afford to truely indulge in their interests and visit the middle east for a authentic experience, while there they would have the opportunity to pick up a better itteration of what he produces/produced for a fraction of the cost (if we factor in the 'worth of the trip')
THE CONNECTION IS YOU WOULDNT BUY A KANDORA UNLESS YOU WERE INTERESTED IN THE CONCEPT IN THE FIRST PLACE UNLESS U R A MONEYBOI

>>7072661

You have no idea what I'm talking about and this entire post seems to make the assumption that whatever I've posted thus far about business is my personal opinion and not an observation of how things actually work.

My opinions on heritage and made in China are inconsequential and have nothing to do with this thread. Nor have I stated them in any of the above posts. Everything I have said is about how the business actually works and operates. Right now the people who are buying designer and avant-garde fashion do not want to see made in China on the label ESPECIALLY not Chinese people who are the largest growing market at the moment. This has nothing to do with how you or I personally feel about such things, this is how reality works. Likewise, what is selling right now is the idea of heritage and artisanal I know it's bullshit because I work in it but that doesn't mean diddly squat. That's what the customer is into right now and so the ideas that Thamanyah are pursuing actually make perfect sense and easily explain why he was picked up by Owenscorp.

The type of product he is producing is what people want right now, it speaks to heritage, history, and the idea of being artisanal. That's what's big at the moment, it's not my opinion, it's fucking reality. Deal with it.

>>7072684

Slow down and take everything in, at least you're learning.

>>7072675

I don't know anything about NYC.

>>7072743

#4 does a huge amount of business. There's nothing more to it than that. It's too large to be a hobby and this has been obvious since 3-4 years ago.

Your line of reasoning regarding who buys Thamanyah is silly and stupid. Lamy, Owenscorp, and whoever else is involved in the whole thing obviously disagree with you because if they came to the same conclusions the brand never would have got the green light.

I'm out.

>>7072779
>zip fly

>>7072755
i didn't ask you so i could get the conglomerates hivemind perception on design.
perhaps in that sense 'not made in china' is a driving force behind producing a label but it's not something i consider meaningful and it bothers me thinking most consumers do think it is that important but that doesn't concern me because im independent of other consumers and them of each other etc etc (why are we talking about averages etc).

also this discrimination between fashion and avant garde is kind of ridiculous.
are you trying to define fashion and avant garde design (both existing under fashion) to be exclusive of one another?
doesnt really matter - pet peeve
good nite
fagorak

>>7072783
Leaving side the way a zipper is the only thing that makes aesthetic sense with that design, button flys are terrible. Pants should be able to come off quickly, because, well, priorities.

The ideal would be something like a hook and eye closure sitting atop a snap fly with everything set up so you just undo the hook, move your hand, and it all comes undone with one single motion.

>>7072800
fuck are you on about m9
button flys open when you pull in any direction

>>7072065
designers dont make clothes for the purpose of selling them

how new are you

>>7072804
I've heard people say that before, but I've never seen it actually happen.

>>7071698
whilst what you posted is shit don't disregard the whole thing