/fa/ - Fashion

>>6477211
why is acronym so expensive ffs
http://vimeo.com/39120008

>>6477263
This is the clothes of my dream! But I think Acronym is to add some detealis and textures on shoulders and elbows.. I like this future-military functional concept style of clothes. I really love what Acronym does!

>>6477263
I iwsh I knew ;-;

>>6477278

sergey stop pls

>>6477305
Ok my friend :'(
I go back to vimeo...

>>6477355
I wish undercover would do something with the motto "Good for health bad for education" but like, not on a jacket like this because that's p /cgl/

opinions?
not a fan of the branding, but I like the look of the jacket

>>6478920
You mean that tiny orange notch on the wrist? Go for it

>>6478942
second marking

>>6478926
theres 2 more spots.
probably gonna grab the red/black if I get one over something from The North Face

>>6478920
>>6478942
>>6478946
not sure its water proof though =s

>>6478942
>>6478946

Oh my god. Ew.

I can't recommend anything that wouldn't be just as branded.

IRL no one is going to give two fucks and I'm sure you'll be complimented on it

>>6478957
True true.
Search continues.

>>6478946
There are so many mall-tier garments I'd consider if they were just not branded.

>>6478989
so true

>>6479022
It is the windcheater.
Is it worth the money?
I should get the hooded version shouldn't I?
Also got any fits for it?

>>6478952

If thats the superdry windcheater, like I think it is, it's surprisingly one of the most sturdy garments I've worn in a while - it's very wind and rain proof

>>6479026
>>6479022

their model is adorable

how's the fit? very baggy?

For women, I like Nau for this kind of thing. No idea why their mens' stuff became so lame over the last couple of years though.

best tech nikes go

>>6479037
>>6479026

Personally, I've gotten loads of use out of it and nothing but complements on it. I have the material lined version, black and red, with the hood - the fit is baggy on me and a little long, but I'm 5"10 and 50 kgs, so I'm not representative. Try it on somehwere!

>>6479118

what size?
Wish I had some /fa/ stores around me, going to school in the middle of nowhere.

>>6479118
also you have the arctic one?

Just found this. I can see it working really well with a space/astro look.

>>6479194
I don't know how many nights I've spent debating copping this

It's been knocked down from $700. I wonder how low it will go

>>6479194
Not feeling it.

>>6479194

I fucks with that.

>>6479204
would like to see more cartography-inspired pieces in the future

>>6479238

How fantastic would it be if Raeburn did this piece with a map of the surface of the moon instead of Iran?

>>6479194

Are you poet?

>>6479268
No, but I've helped him find a few pieces for his astro/lunar style.

>>6479259
that looks like a frogs face in the thumbnail

>>6478942
I would still cop, especially at the price. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices, anon.

>>6479194
back

here is a belt that could work, it comes in a bunch of different colors

>>6479342
forgot pic

>>6479326
true, it is a nice looking jacket.
Gotta put the money together first.

>>6479022
no fit?

>>6479639

I have it in camo. Don't wear it very often but it's a decent piece for €100.

>>6479749
it don't look bad.

>>6479259
I don't know why they didn't - I asked myself the same question when I saw that jacket. Even the place names are better - mare tranquillitatis.

>>6477263

I might catch flak for this but don't really care. Acronym is like the Apple of streetwear. It costs quite a bit more than it should but it's because there's a huge amount of time devoted to the design. They don't just crap out collection after collection of disposable products and they're totally cool with having an off season where they don't really put out anything new but just slightly tweak and improve their current offerings. The clothes also retain their value hard, exactly like the computers. Not to mention there's a really heavy focus on creating a cohesive universe of products that spans years at a time. I'm pretty sure this is Errolsons intent and a big part of why he constantly references Apple products in his lookbooks, because he's based his own brand so heavily on their design philosophy.

As a customer of both the buying experience is almost identical. Questioning why the fuck I'm spending so much when I can get something similar for half the price and then within a week realizing I love the product so much that I don't care how much extra it cost. Then follows many years of extreme satisfaction and reliability, the customer service of both has always been top notch and adding one more product to my collection always feels like it compliments everything else I already own from them.

I can't think of another brand where the similarities run as heavy.

Just picked this ballistic 22l pack from Visvim the other day, it's from a few seasons ago but has virtually no wear on it - backed with goretex and has taped seams.

I poured a gallon of water on it and took this picture fifteen minutes later, the majority of it rolled off but as you can see the water that pooled still hasn't soaked through into the bag. I've got a lot of Vis's goretex products/lined garments in general if anyone is interested in how durable/waterproof these garments can be.

>>6479814
Can you tell me anything about the PS-13 Jodhpurs?
They're very high on my 'must have' list, I want some details to drool over and motivate me to hustle up this next 600.

>>6477355
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Akiracore is best core

>>6479814
I'd love to cop the jacket I posted in the OP if I had the money.

>>6479814
how much for that bag...

>>6479893
you're second child

>>6479847
it looks like it soaked thru some of the leather on the bottom right though :(

>>6479910
Probably true.

>>6479923
Yeah, while the leather may take some abuse the inside of the leather detailing is also gore-tex lined, so at least the contents don't get wet.

Good to see some Acronym love here.

>>6479943
o shit i didn't know the leather was lined from the inside too!

and plus it's not really realistic to just leave a gallon of water sitting on the pack... i imagine if you were running home in the rain or something, the leather would be fine at repelling water

>>6479946
We actually had some pretty torrential rain here yesterday when i picked it up. Vis Nomad + backpack + outlier climbers and a pair of Vis virgils and water was pretty much rolling off of me save for my lower half - Outlier has pretty mediocre water resistance in their schoeller fabric.

I always found an Akira vibe to that bag!

lunars are the ones with the defect right

so I wittled it down to the Superdry series, I think.(Seriously dig the liner colors).
Should I go with the tech version or the polar?
Both say they're year round, but I fear the polar would be too hot outside of winter and the tech not warm enough in the winter.
Can anyone other than >>6479022 confirm it's waterproofing?

>>6479861

Not huge on the Jodhpurs, so I don't really have anything to say about them. But ACR pants in general are absolutely bonkers, they have a ton of really slick pockets which is a big deal for me. I'm someone who wears a blazer almost every day because I'm obsessed with pockets and need a ton of them to function on a day to day basis. But in the summer and shit it definitely gets tiring so I've really toyed with the idea of setting aside the cash to finally take the plunge and get some ACR pants.

I think the coolest thing ever for summer would be a pair of lightweight ACR pants with a fuck ton of pockets and then a stack of rick tee's or something and just uniform it up for 3 months until the heat passes.

>>6479893

I think it's a 3A-8TS which isn't so bad but the killer is the load out it has. It's got the Acronym solar panel, large kompression pocket, and I think the pen holder + phone pouch.

So probably like €1000 total.

>>6480027
Thanks for the reply... That's a great idea.

>>6480011
Am i retarded for liking this jeans?

Been years since Ive worn pre-distressed

strongly considering copping

>>6480092
>Am i retarded
yes
>Am i retarded for liking this jeans?
yes

>>6480103

okay help me out here guys

I'm 5' 10" 155 lbs
chest 39"
waist 31"

when I read the sizing chart should I find the closest one or go up to the nearest larger fit? i.e. should I cop small or medium?

>>6480103
looks like crap

>>6480210

what should I get instead sensei

>>6480103
i like it

>>6480202

down

Small

>>6480011
noone? :S

som1 pls post more jacket inspo

>>6480566

one of my faves

>>6480607
>random quickdraws on carabiner

wut

this was posted a few days back, can someone ID?

>>6480846
>expecting accurate equipment portrayal from North Face

>>6480832
w2c those shorts

>>6480832
w2c jacket

>>6480103

>>6480848
reverse google image search please

http://www.found-nyc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71212

Should I just get a lighterweight tech jacket and layer under it incase the temp drops too much?
>>6481033
thanks anon

my last bump for the night

>>6481280
whatever keeps you warm

This is OP from the original thread.
My neckbeard friend decided to keep neckbearding. He's beyond help and will just continue to wear free shirts from events and cargo shorts 2 sizes big.

I'mma stop talking to him, can't have him cramping my style

>>6480027
>solar panel

Acronym makes bags with solar panels? A quick Google over to the company page suggests the 3A-8TS doesn't have one, but if any of them do... damn.

First, that really bolsters your Apple thesis, and second, runs me perilously close to a brand crush. I've already admired Acronym's designs a lot aesthetically, but haven't really dug into them because functionally because they're so expensive and I assumed function was on par with any sort of techwear.

>>6482263

It was an attachment they did 3-4 years back the 3A-MSOL1. It sold pretty poorly, back then the tech was still kinda young and really expensive. I think they originally retailed for in and around $400-500, I had a chance to grab one from a store that had some Acronym dead-stock not too long ago for like $150 a unit but still passed. I somewhat regret it but more so for the collectability aspect of it, I remember doing the math and the battery it came with might have given me an extra half charge on my rMBP. I think those portable solar panels and of course the batteries they fill have gotten much better since so there's always a possibility they might re-release it but then again I don't really know what is going on with the 3RD ARM line, it's easily Acronyms coolest stuff but apparently they're only selling it on their own online store now. Dunno if that means they're scaling it back or what but it doesn't really seem like a good sign.

And a pic of it on a bag

>>6482329
That's sort of cool; I sort of imagined they'd be doing a really effective one. And more elegantly, somehow, either the top flap being one of those flexible ones, or a hard one making up one face of the bag.

Something like that you could rig up yourself easily.

current bag is an older osprey flapjack courier.
Can someone recommend me a newer messenger?
<$200 and should hold a 12.5 in laptop.
Waterproof of course.
Not a fan of the newer couriers, and wanted a secondary bag.

Oh shit, another Outlier x Hyperlite bag.

Apparently, this is a Windrider in a heavier black Cuben adapted to urban use. 39 liters, $350. And it's predictably awesome, with a few reservations:

- They're of course saying it's great for travel, but it's got some weaknesses there. One, its dimensions are larger than the 45 linear inches most airlines allow for carryon, and there's bags with more capacity that will meet that requirement. Like all of Hyperlite's bags, it lacks a frame, although it has two aluminum stays which supposedly make up for it. (I've never used a bag with that kind of design, and I kind of doubt it's a truly appropriate replacement for extended use unless you're more considered about being ultralight for the sake of being ultralight than mobility or comfort.)

- Around town it'd be fucking awesome, but it's slightly larger than I think a daypack should be - Hyperlite's 26 liter Stuff Pack, similar fabric in a simpler version of the design, seems right.

I'm flopping between "Holy shit copcopcop" and "great bag, for the right people, but I'm not one of them."

80% right now on wrong weather cop or not ?

>>6484764

Interesting. Gives me a vague Seditionaries vibe.

>>6484764
I like it, but probably wouldn't cop myself. But if you're 80% on it, it probably fits you and you should cop it.

>>6484764
you better be 100% confident in your aesthetic

>>6484708
oh shit that looks bitchin

>>6479847
Damn, I kinda want that. What's the piece called?
As it's your picture, image search didn't give much useful info.

>>6479847
Fun fact - if you see the GORE-TEX logo on any garment or bag, you can rest assured that the garment has taped seams. Gore-tex is a textile, but the company that makes it won't license it to a designer unless they promise to make the garment with taped seams.
Taped seams of course protect against leaks, and a leakless garment improves the textile's reputation, leading to more licensing agreements. It's one of the ways Gore-Tex has stayed a premium tech textile in spite of being relatively old hat.

>>6485058
Noone?

>>6485214
He gave you the name, in the post.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=visvism+ballistic+22l+backpack&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#client=safari&rls=en&q=visvim+ballistic+22l+backpack&spell=1&sa=X&ei=ITXfUauFH6-14AOBtIGwDA&ved=0CCoQvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.dmg&fp=a21a95023a7ef7d6&biw=1280&bih=574

>>6479814
>Acronym is like the Apple of streetwear
what's funny is that you intended this to be a favorable comparison

>>6485271
It is. Sorry.

>>6485271
I LOL'd.

>>6485285
Stay common.

>>6485285
>apple as fashion
like at best you look like a manipulated consumer and at worst a supporter of some of the worst libertarian technocracy to come out of silicon valley

like do you really think rebel mctechninja's gonna carry what amounts to a government tracking device, because futurist curvature

>>6485625

botnet paranoia aside, he wasn't referring to the aesthetic of the products themselves (I hope) but rather some questionable sense of quality he gets from both companies

I agree there are much more techy laptops and I don't think apple products are compatible with the techwear mentality

>>6483408
real trap shit: http://countycomm.com/xleod.html

>>6485650
The comparison of course falls apart as a value proposition as well. Acronym's stuff is really expensive, has a genuine exclusivity about it, and is made in places like Switzerland. Apple's stuff is made in Chinese factories and every 12-year-old kid has an iPhone these days.

>>6485683

Doesn't matter where it's from or how much it's worth. It's easy, it's fast, it doesn't crash and it looks pretty.

>>6485679
doesn't look like something I could really use day to day or on my bike. nor does it look comfortable to carry.

>>6485694
>milspec
>not practical and superior to /fa/gcore garbage

>>6485693
I've seen em crash and get slow quite a bit.

>>6485693
Kind of missing the point of the discussion here, aren't you?

>>6485650
Techwear isn't just about being rugged but about function and design being amplified and integrated. Apple does a hell of a job of that, and while there's things I dislike about a good bit of their products, there's a lot of little nice things their products have or do that others just don't, and then there's aspects (displays, connectivity) where they're using a novel modern nanotechnical DWR and everyone else is rubbing wax in, and not to be "heritage" or "artisinal."

Also, sadly, the rugged laptop sector is plagued with subpar technology, some of it owing to engineering constraints, some of it owing to needing to satisfy the derpy requirements of large contract purchasers. Most of them still have serial ports.

>>6485625
If you know your shit, you know that the only way in which Apple is more government-tracky than anyone else is that the batteries aren't removable.

>>6479749
>>6478920
>>6478942
>>6478946

are you plebs actually saying those superdry jackets are nice? what are you 12? every fucking 12-14yr old kid in the UK wears one of these to school, theyre ultimate shit tier jackets.

go moncler or go home

>>6485707
I'm not, actually. The most advanced technology always disappears from our direct view and becomes seamlessly one with our lives.
Having a good looking, minimal computer that always works means the computer itself integrates with you on a personal level. When your system doesn't crash all the time & you don't have to meddle with obscure control panels, the machine disappears into your life, it's just there, it's a part of you.

>>6485734
You realize I was asking about a poorfag budget right?
Also I don't live in the UK.

>>6485746
Still even on a poorfag budget, they suck, please dont waste your money, just ebay a nice brand and you might find a cheap used one!

>>6485756
recommend me one to look for I could hopefully find for <$150
>>6485739
I never have those issues with my PCs.

>>6485739
Yep, you missed the point. We were talking about Apple's design and market position compared to that of Acronym. Whether any of us like or don't like either of these brands doesn't factor in.

>>6485739
>>6485693

I refrained from saying anything about what you posted initially (if indeed it was you) about Apple products

but when you bring up crashing issues and obscure control panels, you're reinforcing the image that apple products are marketed to the technologically inept, lowest common denominator losers that'll buy anything that's wrapped up shiny enough

I want to accept that there are legitimate justifications for apple stuff but you're shooting yourself in the foot here

>>6485739
if you're not pleb, arch linux can be just as much a 'part of you.'

>>6485767
I've always had those problems with PCs, and I'm actually pretty decent when it comes to using them. But I don't game anymore and I don't want to be doing maintenance. Maybe I'm just shit at puters but it really is nice just having everything work for a change.

>>6485778
I just don't care anymore.
I want something that works so I can write emails and go about life.

>>6485767

ebay!

browsing /fa/ has not only changed how much I'm willing to spend on clothing but has also made me invested enough to spend time looking for sales

>>6485786

well, there you go. you're out of your element. with more experience maybe you'd appreciate the freedom that apple likes to take away from you (which coincidentally makes it harder to screw things up for yourself too).

>>6485775
I intensely dislike the Aqua DE (90% of it is the shoe-on-head window management) but a lot of people bond with it that way, can use it without knowing anything technical.

But beneath, it's BSD with a bash shell.

Complaining about this is like claiming an impeccably patterned garment that can be worn, used, and peeped to delight with no modification is inferior to one you need to DIY to get it right.

>>6485778
No one said it couldn't.

>>6485795

I think that's a bit of an interesting attitude to have about TECHwear don't you think?

of course there's a dichotomy between the outdoorsy and urban styles but what appeals to me is exactly that association with technology, urban surveillance, etc.

>>6485801
When's the last time you used your freedom to hack your Linux distro at the code level?

Don't get me wrong, software freedom is important on a macro, social level, but it's completely irrelevant even to most skilled users on a day to day basis. Consider it like ethical sourcing of production.

>>6485801
I actually do appreciate and understand the freedom I've lost. Sometimes it frustrates me. In the past I've used linux, I've used a silicon graphics mainframe, I've used a commodore 64, I've used a TI-92. I know what's happening here, how apple is slowly removing the product from the hands of the end user. I see what's coming.

I just don't care anymore.

>>6485801
i meant brans

>>6485804
>Complaining about this is like claiming an impeccably patterned garment that can be worn, used, and peeped to delight with no modification is inferior to one you need to DIY to get it right.

these clothing analogies are giving me a hernia, but I'd claim that more software flexibility is like having a backpack with tons of compression straps. it might not "just werk" but it's better and more flexible if you take the time to use it correctly. and yes, if you're clueless, it may not feel as good on your back, but that's your fault!

>>6485812
>When's the last time you used your freedom to hack your Linux distro at the code level?

never, but I can tell you plenty of times apple's ridiculous software restrictions on my iphone pissed me off, even after I jailbroke. they want their product to have a single coherent image so they won't let you do what you want.

by contrast I really appreciate how it's so easy (and free) to get into android development. beyond what I myself do, it also makes for a much more active homebrew scene.

>>6485824
brands*

>>6485829

>>6485829
See, on a heavy duty hiking pack, you're right. But on a simple daypack I need to cart stuff around the city? Nothing beats a simple rolltop pouch with backpack straps. Open it up, literally drop in laptop, extra layer if I might need one, book, sandwich, passport, and head out the door. Zero cognitive load, so I can focus on more important and interesting stuff.

Similarly, a stock iPhone with App Store available programs will do everything I want it for. It's grating as hell to use as an only computer (I had to do that, once, for a few weeks) but for what it's for - look up a quick bit of information, shoot off a few e-mails on the go, jot a quick note.

A smartphone works - and this is the only reason I got one, to get this different kind of experience - as an object *in your physical environment*, solid, tactile, immediate, simple, whereas a real computer works as an environment unto itself. Both are useful. One I modify endlessly. The other I want to think about as much as I think about a hammer.

Literally the only thing that makes me want to root the thing is f.lux, and not enough to actually bother doing it.

>>6485822

Like I said, part of what draws me to techwear is the association with the hacker / cyber terrorist thing a la Neuromancer, or cyberpunk literature in general. Not so much that electronic technology is a necessary component of the clothes, but rather it's another important element of the world that intrigues me, and I'm drawn to both because of the same elements of character.

>>6485906

>book, sandwich, passport

oh u

Suit yourself. Personally, if I'm carrying something around I don't mind investing time to get it how I want. I love having the settings available, and it was a hammer that I carried everywhere then I'd want one that could fold out and was balanced well and could also cut seatbelts. If something's more convenient for you and you don't want to change, then that's fine. But don't assume that everyone has the same values and experience.

>>6485906
Gah, botched second graf in editing, but you get the idea.

Look up directions, read stuff in Instapaper, check the weather, etc.

>>6485931
See, I invest a ton of time getting my desktop, laptop, etc., how I want, but the whole reason I got an iPhone was because it's designed so well it's 99% of the way to perfect out of the box plus fifteen minutes of downloads.

In comparison, every Android DE I've used has felt like a clumsy, unfinished clusterfuck.

Suit yourself, too; I'm just elaborating on why the lack of freedom on an iPhone isn't bothersome to me, or most people.

This started off talking about OS X, too, which again has bash and you can do anything, and is I think more what's going on with the Acronym - Apple comparison Anorak made.

>>6485812
>When's the last time you used your freedom to hack your Linux distro at the code level?
last year for my phd

like look most of the apologism for apple in this thread makes mass appeals to the elegance of the average consumer or w/e the fuck. when you do this you convey your deep enthusiasm for product design and that's okay, probably a /fa/shionista should appreciate good product design

but i doubt that hiro protagonist would think this way, and there is a definite paradox in affecting a hacker/techninja aesthetic and marrying that to apple products, just like there's a paradox in the $650 workwear shirt. at this level of exposure and dissonance it become something like a mark of inauthenticity

>>6486125
so you know i don't care if you jizz buckets over your laptop or just think it's a convenient device that's right for you or w/e the fuck, but don't hold it up and be like THE FUTURE IS HERE. JUST LIKE ACRONYM. FUTURIST LIFESTYLE

>>6485981
>tao lin

>>6485981

is that a slice of fuckin' bread?

>>6486125
>>6486125

See, I don't necessarily equate techwear with a "hacker aesthetic." For me, everything is about function, whether I designed it and built it from the ground up, or whether some Californians/Germans designed it and had it built with Foxconn/Schoeller parts.

There's macro issues involved in software freedom, worker safety and autonomy, etc. but my purchase of used Appleware doesn't affect those, though my App Store purchases unfortunately do have a very, very tiny effect on them.

I wasn't the one who made the Acronym - Apple comparison, and I'm unfortunately not familiar enough with Acronym to evaluate it. But when I think about the commonalities between techwear and Appleware, I think of the new Mac Pro, the nearly perfect, engineered function-following of its form, the way it lights up the I/O panel when you rotate it. Beauty coming out of engineering and purpose, out of the things they'll be used for, little details making the process of doing things in the world more direct and less bothersome. The same thing I see in DIY modifications, whether clothing or software - people pursuing better, more intuitive, more efficacious, less snaggy (mentally, physicallyh) tools to make accomplishments and live a life as well as possible.

I do think locking that down to Apple is silly, but no one's doing that here, and at the present moment (I have no long-term love for them at all) they are just doing things no one else is, at least in any serious way. Where else can you buy a laptop with a should-be-normal resolution display and Thunderbolt?

I don't think techwear has much to do with the future - even poet's lunarcore is (correct me if I'm reading you wrong, poet) about "forgotten futures," almost elegiac about how short the present comes up against our dreams. It has to do with a confrontation with the present world.

I'm not familiar with the work you're referencing with "hiro protagonist."

>>6486177
Whole grain PB&J.

>>6486177

>>6486392
not bad, but do you have that in a better resolution?

>>6486304
>I'm not familiar with the work you're https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash
also, irony:
> Stephenson explained the title of the novel...as his term for a particular software failure mode on the early Apple Macintosh computer.

>>6486607
>The story begins and ends in Los Angeles in the unspecified future, no longer part of the United States. The federal government of the United States has ceded most of its power to private organizations and entrepreneurs
lmfao

>>6486613
It reads as kind of cheesy, though. It's kind of a caricature of cyberpunk as it was perceived at that time.

>>6485271

Like I said I knew I'd catch flak for it because 4chan is edgy as fuck and hates Macs. I've used PC's for most of my life, have built my own computers, and could probably get A+ Certification pretty easy if I sat down and studied for a bit.

I'm an adult now and frankly Mac just fits much better for me as a professional in a creative field. But I'd switch back in a minute if PC became more advantageous for me because I'm not a neckbeard that bases a large amount of my identity on what operating system I use.

Never meant for the comparison to be favourable or unfavourable, just figured I would bring it up because people are always asking why is ACR so expensive and the answer is because they pretty much follow Apple's design philosophy and business model to a T. Never tried to imply that was a good thing or a bad thing, simply that it was a thing.

>>6485650

The quality was one part of the comparison, I fucking knew I should have used bullet points, lets try this again:

Apple:
-Overpriced in relation to other tech companies

Acronym:
-Overpriced in relation to other techwear companies

Apple:
-Has a stable of products they work exclusively on and regularly update rather than the tech trend of having an entirely different lineup of products every season and with constant new designs. Can go a long time without adding anything new, simply improving existing products.

Acronym:
-Has a stable of products they work exclusively on and regularly update rather than the fashion trend of having an entirely different collection every season and with constant new designs. Can go a long time without adding anything new, simply improving existing products.

Apple:
-Occasionally releases a genuinely new product, invests a massive amount of time into these truly new releases as they are few and far between (for a tech company at least).

Acronym:
-Occasionally releases a genuinely new garment design, invests a massive amount of time into these truly new garment releases as they are few and far between (for a fashion company at least).

Apple:
-Cares immensely about creating a cohesive universe of products. Everything looks like it goes together, there are changes to the overall aesthetic but they are long sweeping movements that take years. Unlike the competition who utilizes many different aesthetics across their product range and mixes it up on a regular basis.

Acronym:
-Cares immensely about creating a cohesive universe of products. Everything looks like it goes together, there are changes to the overall aesthetic but they are long sweeping movements that take years. Unlike the competition who utilizes many different aesthetics across their collections and mix it up on a regular basis.

Apple:
-The above doesn't just refer to aesthetics either, there is also massive emphasis on cross functionality between products. As a result Apple products pair extraordinarily well with other Apple products, every time you buy a new one it compliments all of your existing ones. This carries over from year to year.

Acronym:
-The above doesn't just refer to aesthetics either, there is also massive emphasis on cross functionality between the garments, bags, and accessories. As a result Acronym products pair extraordinarily well with other Acronym products, every time you buy a new one it compliments all of your existing ones. This carries over from season to season.

Apple:
-The products retain their value hard because of the above reasons and more, can be re-sold for a significantly higher margin than competitors products despite costing twice as much.

Acronym:
-The garments retain their value hard because of the above reasons and more, can be re-sold for a significantly higher margin than the competitors products despite costing twice as much.

There's probably some other stuff I'm leaving out like customer service and marketing but I think you get the idea, Errolson Hugh is obviously a huge mac fanboy and has structured his business and design philosophy in a similar way to Apple. Obviously there are plenty of differences especially in company size and because you know, one makes computers and the other makes clothes. But can you name another brand that is more like Apple than Acronym? Because I can't and I think that's interesting and was worth posting about.

>>6486665
>"edgy"
>"neckbeard"
>bullet points
yeah no thanks man the conversation already came and went

Thats a nice jacket.....i might need it doe

>>6480588
w2c?

>>6485801
no brands?

>>6486682
>has structured his business and design philosophy in a similar way to Apple.
Is that because he's a huge Mac fanboy, or is that just because it makes more sense as a philosophy than anything else out there if your goal is to make good stuff for people to use?

Oh also re this:

>I agree there are much more techy laptops and I don't think apple products are compatible with the techwear mentality

Acronym is the best example of a brand that blurs the lines between techwear and fashion. On the one hand they really have some of the best technology and innovation but on the other hand they're very much a fashion brand and honestly share more in common with designer / avant-garde / boutique fashion than they do techwear companies. This is essentially why I feel they're the best techwear brand because when you remove the fashion edge all you really have left is spec sheets for autists. It's funny because the computer analogy fits in perfectly here. Once again the tech equivalent of Acronym really is Apple because there is this huge emphasis on fashion and making it sleek, and cool, and sexy.

If you don't care about any of that shit then you shouldn't be paying the huge mark up for Acronym (or Apple), go buy Milsurp or check out any of the many cottage industry sized techwear brands out there ran by Finnish autists who care about nothing but getting the highest water repellency possible, even if the end garment looks like a trash bag.

Likewise the computing equivalent you should be using is Linux. Really the computer analogy fits so well here it's ridiculous. So please enjoy your Milsurp and Linux but recognize Acronym and Apple aren't trying to be anything like those, regardless of whether you like it or not.

http://vimeo.com/50626032

>>6486682
To be fair that first one works with any technology if you're not retarded

Besides, most of the argument about Apple products isn't that they're super awful and useless or even that they're overpriced, it's that they are really nice to people who don't know computers and a pain in the ass for people who do. And no tech retains its value, to say otherwise is to lie.

>>6485683

Acronym sources fabric from Schoeller Textiles Ag. who are a Swiss company and make their fabrics in Switzerland but all Acronym garments and accessories are made in Czech Republic. Errolson works exclusively with a factory there that's about a 2 hour car ride from his atelier and design HQ in Berlin. All Acronym bags are made by Bagjack Berlin a German bag company who have the facilities and focus to realize Errolson's 3RD ARM designs which for a company of his size he probably wouldn't be able to do on his own (or as well).

Just setting the facts straight.

>>6486304

This is closer to what I'm talking about.

>>6486750
i mean it's just telling that you view it all through the lens of product design and branding, apple versus "linux," autists and neckbeards versus the sleek and the cool and the sexy, and the original meanings of computer and techwear are reduced to the concerns of unfashionable people

>>6486855
you got this luxe brand, it's affecting a lifestyle, and whether it's actually compatible with the lifestyle isn't necessarily a concern, it's the $650 workwear shirt again. i don't mind that that shit exists but to me it does personally communicate something ridiculous and unselfconscious. if you're comfortable in it then you're comfortable, but that's how it makes me feel when i see it

>>6486855

>i mean it's just telling that you view it all through the lens of product design and branding

That would be because I'm a designer.

But please extrapolate on that post if you want, I'm interested in hearing what you say have say but so far all I've seen is criticism over my vernacular.

>>6486887
hey anorak, can you recommend a tech jacket for a larger/shorter guy? (5'7") dropping weight, so I really only want to spend at most $150 for now.

>>6486880

Now this is a much more interesting discussion. Cognitive dissonance used to be something I was obsessed with as a teenager but over the years have pretty much come to realize that it's almost something of a myth in that there are so few circumstances where a reasonable reality does not exist behind the bewilderment.

My favourite example I love to use is I used to be really into Punk music as a teenager and I can remember meeting this chick at a show who was wearing a Crass T-shirt and carrying a leather handbag. If you don't know, Crass is essentially an ultra leftist Anarcho-Punk band made up of vegans. To me at the time this was a prime example of cognitive dissonance. I thought to myself "How could this chick be so dense? How could she not realize how she looks like a total idiot? How can she displace so much cognitive dissonance and not recognize it? How could be she so completely lacking in self awareness?".

Years later I look back and the whole thing made perfect sense, only stupid angsty dumb well off white kids listened to Crass, in fact it was almost a requirement that you had to embody 90% of what the band hated in order to be attracted to them. Crass were never even a real band, they formed and learnt how to play instruments for the express purpose of spreading their message. They saw punk as a platform for enlightening the youth of tomorrow. The girl wasn't actually exhibiting any cognitive dissonance at all. In the grand scheme of things, her place in the universe actually made much more sense than most things.

>>6486887
the vernacular is the entire architecture of a qualitative conversation. if all we're talking about is product design, then apple has won some product design awards, whatever. fashion might be talked about as a product design issue, but it's also a lifestyle issue, and certainly you're talking about a lifestyle issue when you contrast between the acronym/apple master race consumer and the milsurp/linux neckbeard autist functionalist or whatever. you're characterizing these design issues, you're making them more than just design issues and into issues of lifestyle and characterization. that's fashion.

i'm okay with that, but what i'm trying to say is that's just like, your opinion man, or more specifically that the character i think apple products construct and project is very different from the "sexy functionalist" you perceive. to me apple is at best a totem of consumer culture, like a starbucks, but at its worst its a mark of the silicon valley lifestyle that thinks it has purchased its way into futurism when in fact it is incredibly regressive. and i think the risk of affecting that particular character must be enhanced if you're gonna pair your apple laptop with techninja shorts

Regarding the whole lux workwear thing I get similar feelings. To me it doesn't really exhibit any cognitive dissonance at all. The wealthy and upper class have always romanticized the poor and lower class. Designer workwear is that same idea in practice. Another interesting point is that rich people often have an immense longing for authenticity. In fact the idea of authenticity in general is really only something that rich white people care about or people who grew up around rich white people. For example in rock music the idea of "selling out" is a very prominent concept. Interestingly enough the concept of "selling out" doesn't really exist in Rap. Essentially poor black people could never in a milion years understand why someone would turn down a corporate endorsement or sponsorship. Authenticity is something you only long for when you have absolutely everything else because if you're really set for life that might just be the one thing that you can't have and of course we as humans always want what we can't have.

The people who buy designer workwear are often well to do urbanites, they never grew up in an environment with actual workwear, for them it's a novelty and this concept that plays with the trappings of authenticity. It's only natural they would be attracted to it.

>>6486979
>>6486981

my interpretation of his posts is, it is not genuine to wear techy outfits and at the same time justify your gadgets through their "it just werkz" easy-of-use "I don't have to think about it" etc.

I'll qualify this by saying that it is a narrow view of techwear, certainly. I am attracted to it because of various values that I don't think are consistent with apple products. I want to build, hack, play. so the workwear comparison is apt; if fashion is a reflection of character, then it seems not genuine to wear the clothing, because you don't espouse the values you represent.

of course nothing says that you HAVE to dress in a way that reflects your personality or whatever. and while it can be logical that, like you said, rich people want to be authentic, that doesn't make it less dissonant. it's an explanation for their actions, but it's still fake.

>>6486979
>cognitive dissonance
i mean there are other ways to articulate the unity and conflict of opposites, i don't much like "cognitive dissonance" either because it seems to come from an objectivist view of reality where if you try to hold two contradictory beliefs then your head will explode. this is clearly bullshit, i've worn engineered garments and they're not covered in pulpy chunks

to me it seems more like the operative principle is dialectical, we derive and change from our initial perspective and maybe at some point in the process we become conscious of the contradiction, which causes us to reconcile it and creates momentum for future change. people are always changing, and probably you're neither the kid who saw crass as a teenager nor are you really qualified to analyze what crass and a leather handbag meant to some anecdotal girl then let alone now

apple's a big, influential force so it would be surprising if it had more than one meaning, or if people didn't fight over it's meaning. i guess all i'm saying is that i'm willing to fight over what apple means, i mean that's what a dialect is right?

>>6487068

to me (I don't know if this is where you're going) apple is computers marketed for people who don't like computers. the whole "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" thing exemplifies this. forget about the fact that Macs are PCs; you aren't some old guy, you're hip and young and you don't care about your access memories. you want something stylish that doesn't have problems which you don't understand anyway.

>>6486980

>master race

Aha!, See now we have a problem here. Those are your words not mine. I'm sorry you interpreted my post in that manner but that was never my intent.

I use Windows and Mac, I wear Acronym and Milsurp, I'd like to learn Linux one day but I don't have the time unfortunately. I am someone who likes both form and function, I like the most stupid idiotic fashion but also the most carefully designed and functional. I never meant to insinuate that one was better than the other. Infact I view autist / neckbeard as a term of endearment. I'm a fashion autist or fashion neckbeard, I'm an obsessive person that spends way too much time examining the little details and learning everything I possibly can about the things that fascinate me, I'm an Anorak.

As for the vernacular lets agree to disagree. I feel as an anonymous imageboard we should be able to be more casual and flippant than in the type of environment this type of conversation would normally take place. It's one of the biggest attractions for me.

>to me apple is at best a totem of consumer culture, like a starbucks, but at its worst its a mark of the silicon valley lifestyle that thinks it has purchased its way into futurism when in fact it is incredibly regressive.

I think this is a fair and legitimate point but as someone else in the thread mentioned, Apple for me is essentially about the idea of taking computers and integrating them seamlessly into daily life, so much so that they simply dissipate into the aether. That to me is a defining element of technological futurism. The technological advancements that we notice the least are often the most important because their invisible element is a signifier of their immense worth. That they have manipulated reality so much so as to create a paradigm shift in which their removal is almost unfathomable

But I can also see where you are coming from, there's obviously a regressive element to Apple's design which I would agree is not really in place over at Acronym. Like I said earlier they are not identical copies of each other in place in other industries, I said they share many similarities but there are obviously differences. However I'd like to defer to the fact that although you may feel Apple and techwear are incompatible idealistically, it's Errolson Hugh who's brought this all about, and he is absolutely the definitive techwear designer working today. He's putting out more work than anyone else through Acronym, Stone Island Shadow Project, & Herno Laminar and on top of that his work is not only more populous but also more influential than anyone else.

He's like the grand poobah of techwear and fashion futurism and he obviously feels Apple is congruent with that so I feel that speaks volumes.

>>6487067
that's pretty close, I don't think it's "not genuine" in the sense that i've like freuded your personhood and discovered that you're a fake on the basis of your clothes and laptop, as you said nothing says that you have to dress in a way that's consistent with w/e the fuck

but other people are certainly going to bring their interpretations to the table and there's no simple interpretation of apple as "oh yeah, great product design, kind of expensive," actually it's a really complex issue, it's a massive fucking cultural force. and in some of those interpretations and formulations the juxtaposition of "build, hack, play" and the apple laptop looks pretty silly to me

>>6487085
>Apple for me is essentially about the idea of taking computers and integrating them seamlessly into daily life, so much so that they simply dissipate into the aether.

I'd disagree with this. Apple products are designed to stand out, to uniformly present a product that people want to buy. You're telling me that shiny aluminum boxes with glowing apple logos are the most embedded instances of technology you can find? The ones you can't imagine a world without?

Solar panels on the bag (which personally I think is a ridiculous idea for practical reasons) is an example of what you're talking about. There's an implication that it's normal, it's the future and it's ordinary. When I think of what you described I think of cochlear implants, that girl who surgically implanted a magnet subcutaneously, the cameras on traffic lights. I don't think of a Macbook.

>>6487111

I mean fuck, I even think of Google glass and I think Google glass is dumb.

>>6487085
>Apple for me is essentially about the idea of taking computers and integrating them seamlessly into daily life, so much so that they simply dissipate into the aether.
well but if you look at some of the sci-fi narrative that articulates this vision, it could be Golden Age with its seamlessly integrated virtual fashion-reality of immortal supermen, or it could be They Live with its seamlessly integrated subliminal advertising. Snow Crash articulates a society with a deeply integrated internet sphere, but also deeply integrated corporate interests that de facto replace public government. all these things are "of immense worth" (but to whom?), and could be said to create a paradigm shift in which their removal becomes unfathomable (which is to say, we feel totally dependent upon them)

that is exactly how i feel about apple, and about futurism, and ironically enough i would describe futurism as a very regressive philosophy, as a hyper-capitalist philosophy of the early 20th century. it's not as if self-described futurists have an exclusive lock on articulating the future. i think you're right that apple is a futurist brand, but i think that futurism is something that i interpret as having a very negative character and in particular as being anti-hacker. so if your understanding of techwear is as futurist then you'll see it as compatible with apple, but if it's "build, hack, play" then the two may be in conflict

>>6487089
and i mean you could make this same argument of acronym -> popular and influential -> weighty with apple in the computing world, but the computing world's not a monoculture (just as fashion is not a monoculture) and there are a lot of computing communities in which that argument wouldn't take you anywhere

I asked this in the previous thread but it disappeared before I could check for answers.

Anyway, I love techwear, but unfortunately it's mostly jackets and outerwear. I live in california and it's pretty hot most of the time, any ideas for summer tech?

>>6487067

I think you are projecting way too much of your own belief system onto techwear or what you believe techwear should embody.

Essentially at the end of the day it's only just clothing, there is no real philosophy or belief system behind it besides whatever the designers decide to espouse. In fact it's one of my favourite areas of fashion because it feels so devoid of philosophy and intellectualization. It's simply really well made product that serves a purpose. That also makes it a really cool base from which you can sort of graft your own philosophy and ideals onto it but there is no overarching sort of theme that all techwear brands adhere to in the same way as with artisanal clothing, or luxury clothing, or work wear. To me it's just product (mainly for fighting nature) and not a whole lot else. I feel you can wear it and match it with whatever gadgets or furniture or food or culture or lifestyle you want, it's pretty universal in that regard.

>>6487068

Yeah I dunno really what to say to this post I pretty much agree but I don't think there's really anything to argue about. Everything is relative, of course yeah.

>>6487082

No one I know buys Mac for this reason, I don't know I guess this actually relates to the post I just quoted above. It's all relative and with a company the size of Apple you have so many different people all buying the product for so many different reasons. Some people seriously buy Apple just for the branding, in order to be cool or fit in, others solely because it's expensive and a status symbol (maybe not as much so in the west but very much so in the rest of the world). But just because some people buy Apple for reasons like these does not mean those are the same reasons everyone else buys for.

>>6480103
looks awful
>>6480841
you can do better

>>6487188

post some jackets you like, then

>>6479194
why the fuck is this shit $700

da fuq

>>6486980
Okay, to talk about this I have to first deal with the idea that Apple is regressive. In what sense? In terms of technology, there aren't more advanced computers on the market. I think the only Macs sold today whose existence doesn't involve Apple engineering and specifying a bleeding-edge technology are the Airs and the Minis, and that's assuming Thunderbolt would exist with just Intel pushing it.

Politically, it's utterly in line with the status quo, on everything: software freedom, labor, etc. A few exceptions worth noting:

- Darwin is open source; the NT kernel is not.
- The new Mac Pro is apparently entirely US made, which I give no shits about, but even the US has better labor standards than the PRC.
- This may mean nothing (and take that both ways), but according to the leaked documents Apple was the last participating company to sign on to PRISM, a full five years after the program launched.

You might cite its involvement with the whole shebang of "socialism with Chinese characteristics," and I'd point you to every other tech company doing the same thing, and most of all to the big, forgotten emphasis in Marx on capitalism as a revolutionary, not a regressive force. ("All that is solid melts into air," etc. etc.)

>>6487185
i mean i think we've reached our conclusion if the conclusion is
>apple is a futurist brand
to me futurist is a really shameful moniker applied to californian ideologues and ray kurzweil, but to many of my friends it represents hope in the 21st century. a fight over the meaning of futurism is one that's going to explode into politics and the meaning of life, so i'm happy to stop here thinking we have successfully mined our respective assumptions

So: Apple is politically shitty but par for the course, and technologically more progressive than any hardware and most software companies out there. Is it a totem of consumer culture? Yes, but that's all it has in common with Starbucks. To do what Apple is doing - all the genuinely great stuff they're doing, as well as the shitty stuff - under current conditions would not be possible without being such a successful brand. The only reason their display suppliers will cook up custom panels for them is because they can order them in gigantic bulk, which they can only do because so many fuccbois will buy them to flaunt. Without them, we'd be left with ancient 1600x1200 Thinkpads as grails. Apple is, for the state of computers as tools for people to use, doing very good things.

Starbucks, OTOH, serves aggressively mediocre coffee, pushes blasting the flavor into oblivion because they make more profit off syrup, and deliberately has decimated independent coffee shops across the world. If Starbucks actually pushed coffee and cafe culture higher, it would be problematic, but not something so odious.

Compare it to a band that makes it big and uses the new money and better studio to do something amazing and innovative versus one that just sells out.

Next, while Silicon Valley types fancy themselves future people, again, I think virtually everyone in the techwear field thinks of what they're doing as a very contemporary project.

Lastly, I don't think you really get the design process of either Jonathon Ive/Apple or most techwear brands. Everything is inseperable from function. They're building aesthetics off engineering. Again, look at the new Mac Pro: literally the entire design is built around the most effective and quietest cooling design available. (Ive experimented with watercooling on one of the Power Mac towers; it wound up being a clusterfuck.)

>>6487214
>>6487232
Go together.


>>6486979
>>6486981

But can we say those things are good, though? Isn't there little less cool than the desperate rich fuck struggling to appear authentic? Anything more symptomatic of how fucked late capitalism is?

The Crass fangirl is a bit more complicated of a case. (Caveat: never listened to Crass.) My reaction would just be "meh, art is art, I enjoy the art of plenty of people whose politics I depart from or even actively reject, as long as they're not completely fucked up. She's probably the same way."

And also, I wonder if the leather handbag might've been thrifted. I run in activist circles and I see vegans with second-hand leather all the time.

>>6487181
before I get blown up, I love the aesthetic of techwear of course, but I understand that it's mostly about function. At least that's what I enjoy about it. I just don't know what to get for the summer. I already own a pair of hot weather boots which are fantastic. Anything else I can pick up?

besides backpacks, already have a few in mind I'd like to pick up. Also considering a bladder.

>>6487232
I wouldn't agree that they're on the bleeding-edge most of the time. Maybe in the realm of 'social technology', or the proliferation of technology at the you-and-me end of society considering their role in the spread of the smartphone and the tablet, but throughout Apple's history there are few times when they've had the best of anything. Whether one is more important than the other isn't up to me, but even now, you're not going to get an Apple product and have it perform better on a benchmark than most of its price class.

>>6487111

I'm talking more about smart phones. Also while they're still a pretty huge novelty I think tablet integration into day to day life is another example although it could go either way at the moment. As for laptops which is the example you're using, yeah I think the Macbook Airs are the closest laptops have come to you essentially being able to forget you're using an interface. They weigh nothing and have insane battery life, they integrate much more seamlessly into day to day life than something that weighs 10 pounds and always has to be plugged in.

>>6487144

Heavy shit. I very much see where you're coming from now, thank you for expanding on your thoughts. Pretty much syncs up to the post I just wrote that says techwear is all about what you make it. I think we're pretty much on the same page just from different camps. I dunno the rise of corporatism is essentially something I deal with on a day to day basis in fashion with all the production and resources being consolidated into a handful of hands. Maybe it would make more sense if all independent designers used independent Linux distros. I wish the world was simpler, I have to ruminate on this post more. Best post I've read on /fa/ since I came back.

>>6487144
>>6487185

I think framing things in reference to a priori, utopian projects - whether for or against - is seldom useful. Right now, in the actually existing world, people are trying to build objects, fall in love, get a cup of coffee, create expressive art, feed their kids, at bottom of it all come away from life with a sense of having made it mean something and of having learnt something while here. Everything else - design, computers, clothes, politics - either helps or hinders those innumerable projects. The point is to make and to have tools and forms of social organization that help them.

That's how I see the contingent decision to use a particular computer, a particular garment, a particular social/political/economic structure. No more or less than a carriage on the way to dust.

People organize protests against the surveillance state on iPhones. Military coups undo creeping theocracy. Teenage girls listen to Anarcho-Vegan punk bands toting leather bags. Reality eludes everything we can devise about it, and all we can do is keep our carriages - objects, signs, ideas, selves - in as best shape as possible, steering for the best grave.

>>6487214
i mean you are defeating a lot of straw men, these are not the things i would talk about. things i would talk about:
> use of the DMCA to create the smartphone-as-locked-environment
> use of the app store ToS as a discretionary speech filter
> patents
a lot of this is "par for the course," much moreso of other issues we've neglected to mention like tax evasion, but that doesn't excuse it -- i have a very negative view of silicon valley culture, of which apple is undoubtedly a major representative, and the only reason we're talking about apple specifically is because apple is /fa/, and in particular insofar as fashion is lifestyle apple epitomizes the silicon valley lifestyle

i don't really feel like exploring how "genuinely great" it is to bulk import higher-resolution LCDs -- ironically enough I am actually typing this on on an "ancient" thinkpad t500, it seems hardly different -- and it's not immediately obvious to me why the independent shops starbucks squashes are victims but the computing models apple outcompetes are meritocratically inferior. it kind of all just seems to me like big corporations doing what they do best, and you happen to like one of their products so they get a lot of excuses because it's "par for the course" there

>>6487237

Yeah I dunno at this point. I'm in a difficult position (along with every other designer out there) because making a quality product costs an insane amount of money (although a very large part of this like I said is because massive corporations have bought up everything and now the little guys have to fight over the scraps). Essentially if you want to work as an independent fashion designer and make a really incredible product you have to come to terms with the fact that no one will be able to afford your clothes except the wealthiest of people.

If you decide to pander to them by satisfying their thirst for authenticity then so be it, I don't think it's any more fucked up that any of the other thousands of ways people make money by exploiting each other.

The Crass example I don't think that far into, for me it was just this experience that for the longest time I thought was fucked and then one day I woke up and everything kind of clicked and I realized it actually wasn't fucked at all and made perfect sense.

>>6487252
Historically Apple is middling, yeah, but right now they're killing it. Literally no one else is making fully up to date laptops, ones with both high-res screens and Thunderbolt. (AFAIK, Lenovo has one model with Thunderbolt and a 1366x768 screen; Toshiba and Samsung are rolling out high res models without Thunderbolt; and Google has the USB 2.0 bound Pixel.) If the new Mac Pro lives up to the claims, and people who should know seems to expect that it will, it's blowing everything out of the water on component speeds. OS X is, for better or worse, the most technically advanced OS right now.

>>6487266
to give some context i am a systems phd and worked for about a year in technological policy. so if you're a designer you interpret futurism through design, but if you're a politician you interpret futurism through politics, and if you've actually hacked the linux kernel then you interpret futurism as a hacker as well. from a political perspective it's hard not to have a troubled view of futurist technocracy and thus, it's ultrahard to not have a strong view of a superfuturist ultracorporation like apple that is also /fa/ and therefore deeply tied into contemporary identity

if apple takes an especially bad rap it's not because their practices are especially bad, i mean some are but most are as many have said "par for the course," and some are better than average. it's more than by virtue of being what they are they've come to represent that entire identity

>>6487333
well also i got to be blunt like my area of research is distributed systems so when you say oh it's got higher resolution, oh it's got higher bandwidth interfaces, it's the most technically advanced OS right now -- what does that even mean? probably like 90% of the applications you use are web-based, so they run on "linux," but really they run on apache or nginx, they run on a virtual machine, in an elastic data center -- there is some crazy computer science out there, there is some insane field-pushing that has happened in the last 5 years! "the resolution got bigger" sounds like an advance from 1989, it's the leap from the nintendo to super! nintendo, it's the next-gen -- it's just marketing.

there are radical advances going on in computing right now, but apple is not radically advancing computing by putting thunderbolt before anybody else on their next laptop

>>6487307
>>6487350
I'll address the rest later, but to honest, while I share your concerns about technocracy, I just can't view Apple products as epitomizing a "silicon valley lifestyle." When I think Mac users, I think "creative professionals" and upper-middle-to-upper-class-spawned 15-30 year olds.

Apple mobile users are literally everybody, demographically speaking.

How is Apple more of a pusher of technocracy than, say, Google or Microsoft?

shut the fuck up. you guys derailed the thread.

>>6487407
Ideas matter.

>>6487285
computers, clothes, politics, and various other objects in space are not simply instrumental tools on which the actors of the world act. these objects constitute the conditions of our reality and consequently act back upon us and in part, determine what it is us "actors" "decide" to do. nowhere should this be more obvious than the internet, where it is basically an accident of design that you have no linked identity and thus, piracy is possible, music radically changed, this board exists, it spawned the dominant hacker movement of the last decade -- a crapload of shit happened on the internet because of simple, instrumental conditions of how it could and could not be used. if you changed those designs then the history of the last twenty years would be very different

so yeah, like, how a smartphone works and how it relates to its consumer/user kind of matters a lot. certainly it's an influential idea in technocratic circles that the design of objects can save the world -- watch some ted talks

>>6487407
shhh im collecting knowledge right now

>>6487439
>>6487439
I agree, and that was partially my point: that having the right tools to do stuff with is important, hence why the end level user experience and what you can do and how easily you can do it with a computer or a pants matters.

I think we actually look at things very similarly, but it comes down to >>6487393. I don't see anything inherent in Apple hardware or OS X, or anything of too much importance in iOS, pushing more towards all these problematic trends, and I don't associate Apple with a Silicon Valley identity much at all. Of course it's used - but it seems like it's used by nearly everyone who cares about their hardware and has the cash to plunk down for it.

I'm flagging like hell (can you tell?) and I'm going to crash after this post, but sometime tomorrow I'll explain why I look at the screen issue as so important. It's about 10% direct UX stuff and 90% culture, actually.

>>6487393
it's probably a bit less technocratic than google and a bit more than microsoft, but it's not a race and as i've said before apple's role (in general, and in this thread in particular) has a lot more to do with its role as a fashion-lifestyle for technocracy than with any particularly diabolical actions (although I would argue that its mobile model is particularly diabolical). it's the second most profitable company in the world (behind exxon), so no shit it's representative of the entire class of tech/computing companies, which collectively have some pretty bad problems, and of silicon valley in particular where it is physically just not that far from Google, Facebook, Stanford...

apple products are too ubiquitous to have a single identity but it's not much of a leap from "upper class 150-30y/o" to "silicon valley lifestyle" when you consider that silicon valley is staffed by upper class 20-somethings and -- no surprise -- the products they design reflect their problems and values

>>6487491
>I agree, and that was partially my point

And the rest of my point is that I don't think looking at this as a fight against some clear, a priori technocratic utopian vision some people is useful - that reality will elude their plans just as much as ours. And so we should focus our thinking and praxis on building up the sort of lives and environments we do want - and so whatever tools help us build those better, use them.

>>6487511
i'm crashing like a motherfucker too and i have a wedding tomorrow so yeah let's bail before my shit gets too general and vague

>>6487506
One more: how does the design of a Retina Macbook Pro reflect the problems and values of the Silicon Valley set?

>>6487517
Enjoy your wedding. Thanks for the discussion; hopefully the thread will be here to continue if you want.

>>6487520
i mean i guess the short version is that if you think product design matters then look at the product design of the iphone, which has basically defined computing at the end of this decade and will probably continue to do so for the majority of people in the next decade, consider the kind of relationship that apple wants to have with the iphone's user, on this locked platform, in this locked market, apple is involved in approving and profiting off every transaction, this is "software as a service," it's a platform for articulating your rights to purchases. consider the intellectual property laws (specifically the DMCA anti-circumvention clause) needed to make this economic model even viable, and contrast this with the personal computer, specifically the apple 2. these are very different devices, and i would argue the iphone is a harmful device, its this giant mess of legal obligations and hostile encryption that you purchase your way into, this is very different from your PC and this is one of the possible futures for computing. certainly it's a very influential one. so if you think the design of the iphone and ubiquitous iphone-copies matters then that's one way that apple has had a huge, distorting, legally and politically complex and difficult effect on the reality of computing and not just, you know, made some products

holy fuck that's not the short version i'm going to bed

Go Barbour you classless fucks

>>6487571
this is the actual short version
> "unforeseen"

>>6487601
and i can't emphasize enough, at the time this was actually a pretty radical notion (although one that had been brewing for years), that your computing "service provider" would reserve the right to limit "unforeseen" software on your personal computer. this is an idea that can't even really be implemented on the traditional PC because it was designed to do exactly the opposite, to support unforeseen software and hardware. so yes, the iphone, the dominant computing model of this decade, was pretty influential in creating a new vision of the relationship between consumer and technology

fuuuuuck

>>6487240

Lots of emphasis is placed on the material. Quick-drying, sweat wicking, synthetic stuff that's hostile to bacteria, whatever. Uniqlo has some t shirts like this, no experience with them. But the point is techwear can go beyond waterproof hoodies with lots of zips. It's often over 100 degrees in Texas now.

>>6487571
>>6487620

I loved these posts, thanks.

>>6484951
>>6484945

They are at 80% on sales from 400 $ they only cost 80 now

>>6486981

>notion of selling out doesn't exist in rap
>poor black people could never understand etc etc

sorry but it's pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about

>>6479344
i have a similar belt in that material but the buckle broke.

So now I have a strip of that material, but no buckle...does anyone know of any buckles that would look lunarcore? I've been looking but no luck so far