/fa/ - Fashion

hijab is fashion
fashion iis freedom

>>6195433

fashion is freedom

>fashion is freedom

>>6195426
Not an atheist or anything, but it's safe to say that pic has rustled my jimmies.

>>6195499
why?

>>6195510
Because it reminds me there are people in this world who will force their way of life down your throat if given the chance and are actively working for a chance to do so.
Also, the Hijab and the Niqab are NOT freedom, they're tools of subjugation, although that's just my opinion.
I suppose if going out of the house without one is apt to get you raped, then it can be considered freeing.

>>6195517
K m8.
Just control those fannyflustered feels as best as you can.

>>6195600
You make a very good point.
Everything is relative.

>>6195517
The Hijab isn't even in the Koran (at least not in the way it's realized in contemporary Islamic culture). It's most certainly a tool of oppression.

>>6195600
>implying there is any societal pressure whatsoever for women to wear sunglasses

wat

>>6195765
i think it's whatever the participants in its culture(s) construct it as? like it's inappropriate as fuck for some other world dude to walk in and be like "yeah, you're so oppressed you don't even know it. i can tell from your hijab, and having seen some oppression in my time."

>>6195809
YES THAT'S DEFINITELY WHAT IT'S IMPLYING dipshit are you serious

>>6195818

Except we know Muslim women are forced to cover themselves, it's not a random assumption.

>>6195838
like, all Muslim women in the monolithic globe-spanning Muslim superculture? or some people you heard about on the news

>>6195517
Islam never forced anything on women. Its almost like a social status against the community. "Oh have you heard? Aisha doesnt were a hijab, what a pleb, her husband isnt strict enough" Islam isnt wrong nor does it force oppression, its the people practicing it that are wrong.

>>6195859

The people practicing make it what it is.

>>6195859
riiightt

>>6195859
I think you need to read up on how religion opresses women, in this case Islam.
Come back when you have real arguments.

>>6195859
>not oppressed
>her husband isn't strict enough

you will never transcend~

they should outlaw these in britian IMO
if islam was the uk state religion i would accept it but since it isnt its fucked up, if there was no religious reason for it and it was a cultural difference it wouldnt be tolerated. Making exceptions to human rights for religion grinds my gears, especially when its a pretty fringe religion

i hate seeing them

liberals hold rights cardinal but it bites them in the ass because theyre so scared to upset and theyd call me racist for saying the should be banned when im the one defending rights

>>6196066
plus its a HUGE cultural barrier


its crazy to think racial integration/multiculturalism can happen if they are prevalent in muslim communities they will just continue to be ghettoized shitholes

>let other (backwards, sexist) cultures into our progressive country
>liberals too scared to ask them to change ANYTHING to fit in
>expect them to integrate fluidly

nope.avi

>>6196066
>>6196085
get rekt

>>6196085
matt pulls out the truth gat
new respect for u son
clear, cohesive points made well

>>6196113
=^)

just gettin it off my chest

>>6196122
thx man just spittin the truth

>>6195818
i don't believe in cultural relativism.

>>6196066
agree with you
in the states headwear isn't allowed in high school except for religious observance
but if I were a conspiracy theorist they wouldn't let me wear a tin hat even though it'd be a part of my belief system

>>6196257
it's not "cultural relativism" to point out that you don't know shit about the lives of people you've never engaged

>>6196302
yeah theyd probably make me take off my colander in the school photo even though im a pastafarian

>>6195517
do people come up to you a lot and try to force you to be religious
because that never happens to me

>>6196066
> "im the one defending rights"
> by outlawing cultural/religious expression
> because NOT outlawing is "exceptions to human rights for religion"
holy shit you turned that upside down

>>6196332
meanwhile you got people in this thread unironically suggesting they outlaw the hijab. it never strikes them that this is hypocritical. i don't know why

>>6196339
yeah its a total catch 22 to be honest

>>6196352
it does i think i admitted that in my post

its a heavy handed solution but realistically the only one here in england at least

what do you suggest

>>6196085
> multiculturalism -> racial integration -> "why won't muslims assimilate?"
this shit is all over the place

>>6196359
that secular government has no role in legislating on religious/cultural expression?

then you'll say something like "then how do we help the OPPRESSED MUSLIM WOMEN," and then i'll say something like
> "Muslim women" are not a monoculture
> "they're" not uniformly oppressed, and the hijab doesn't have a uniform meaning to "them," because "they" are billions of people from thousands of different cultures?
> and they don't necessarily want the "help" of a state government, especially if it takes the form of oppression
> if you really care maybe what you should do is interact with some Muslim women in your community, maybe hear what their actual problems are

>>6196391
i mean to put it in obvious form, the consequence of "outlawing" the hijab is that some Muslim women will be punished by the law. that's not "helping."

or do you imagine punition will somehow fall on the "oppressive husband" instead, and his wife will be like "thank you for jailing my husband, who made me wear a hijab most oppressively"

this shit doesn't happen

>>6196405
like seriously, this idea of an oppressive "Muslim male," oppressing a submissive "Muslim women" who cannot help herself but can only be saved by the application of State Law and Western cultural assimilation, is comically fucking racist and needs to stop

>>6195600

An absolutely awful comparison.

>>6196391
i hear you and ive considered those points before

its a hard one to make up your mind on but i stand by what i said

>>6195600
Is there not a middle ground between showing everything and showing nothing?

>>6196359
I think the problem with Islam in Britain is that the loudest, most militant complainers switch between calling it a "culture" and a "religion" whenever the moniker suits it best.

>>6196457
It's not even a middle ground, IMO. No Western woman is being pressured into dressing like that.
I have no issue with the hijab, but the burqa is a repressive form of societal division. It was developed specifically to separate women from men, who might fall prey to even the slightest bit of flesh, baiting them into raping the women bent their elbow the wrong way.
I applaud France for banning it. If they don't like it they can leave. I don't plan to move to Saudi Arabia and start demanding they make special laws for me.

>>6196528
what

In 9th grade there was this girl in my English class from Pakistan(I believe) that wore a hijab. We had to give a speech and when it was her turn it started normal and shit. Then halfway through she said, "Many believe that the hijab, my head covering, is a sign of oppression. It is of my own free will that I wear my hijab. It connects me to my faith and without my faith, I am nothing." She was always really nice as were the other girls in my class that had worn a hijab so I just figured that they really don't mind wearing it.

>>6196535

Sorry, English isn't my first language.

tldr version; The hijab is OK, the burqa is awful and should be banned as it was created specifically to oppress women.

>>6196583
>without my faith, I am nothing
that part is kind of sad though, too bad her parents raised her to think that

>>6196605
I've noticed that a lot of the Muslim girls that I meet, think that way. It is kind of sad but whatever keeps 'em happy I suppose. Islam is really all they know as this is what they were raised on so I guess they kind of cling on to it.

I notice many Muslim girls on campus wearing hijabs but also the tightest fucking shirts and jeans ever. Kind of hot. Everything is covered, but not much is left to the imagination at the same time.

>>6196598
original intention doesn't mean current intention. you can keep the burqa and not have it solely mean gender division. To be clear, I'm just saying there's no reason to go as far as banning it. I don't have anything to say on what its current meaning is.
also
>I applaud France for banning it.
>I don't plan to move to Saudi Arabia and start demanding they make special laws for me.
You like that france makes special laws for (against) them but you think it'd be silly if you went to saudi arabia and they made special laws for you?

>>6196598
right i was just saying you can reveal a little but not everything

>>6196658
>You like that france makes special laws for (against) them but you think it'd be silly if you went to saudi arabia and they made special laws for you

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
If a society believes that you are doing something culturally offensive or causing a legitimate threat then they have that right.
You have to understand that lots of Muslim immigrants in Europe come here, ghettoize themselves, demand special treatment, and then get horribly offended by anything that (they feel) marginalizes them (which is basically everything). France doing this was a good political statement.

>>6196707
Here, here. Ameribro agrees. Morality doesn't really matter in the end to governments. If they feel the state, culture, people, or itself is threatened they will always find a way to ban, marginalize, or repress it.

While multi-cultural societies are awesome, it would be a shame to see a lot of the western world lose its identity and become another middle-east like zone. You know once these militants get into power its end game for Europe as we know it.

>>6195517
have you ever even talked to a person of islamic faith or a woman who wears a hijab?

>>6198053
>>6195859
>>6196332

I have problems with the covering of women in all sorts of cultures, I think it's often designed to strip them of their natural beauty, and thus their power. This is just my opinion, though. I know its true meaning changes for every end user of the garment and I'm not saying we ban head scarves like Ataturk.
I do regret my choice of words - It's not really the Hijab that bothers me. It's certainly not Islam that bothers me, either. It's two words - "FORGET FASHION"

That's the problem here. The creator of this image is essentially urging young women to reject assimilation. For a young woman to reject something as essential as fashion is pretty much tantamount to rejecting an entire way of life. A foreign way of life. It's forgoing culture for tradition.
FORGETTING FASHION serves to isolate one from external influences, which often find inroads via the arts. I suppose the manga styling of it all is just for added irony?

This goes a bit deeper than religion. Deeper than feminism. This is about propagating a mindset that rejects non-native cultural diffusion.

>>6198053
By definition, those women who wear hijabs would not speak to a strange male who approaches them to initiate a conversation.

>>6196605

This. The issue is that parents are forcing religion on children, which is immoral.

If people want to wear a hijab as an adult who has made up their mind then that's ok. Although the people who try and wear a burqa when testifying in court can go and fuck off

>>6198313
EXACTLY THIS

I live in Michigan, and Muslim women are all over the place. They are the most aloof and uninterested people I've ever met.

>>6195426
VERBOTEN

>>6198307
>women's beauty
>their power

rofl way to essentialize women.

>>6198307
>something as essential as fashion
what the fuck am i reading
fashion is not essential by any stretch of the word don't fucking kid yourself

different people have different values and the fact that you can't seem to comprehend that tells me that you're some over opinionated fuck that's worse than the creator of OP's image

also
>women's beauty, and thus their power
how fucking sexist is that

>>6200633
>>6200440
Are you going to tell me that beauty is not a source of power?

>>6200633
Also, Fashion has to do with how we present ourselves to the rest of the world, not just 'looking good' and 'vanity'. If you hand over that agency to an institution outside of yourself, are you not giving up self determination in some degree?

>>6200798
fuccccck are you tryna say the only reason women are powerful is because they are beuatiful?
>sounds like it

>>6201735
No, I'm trying to say that when you strip people of the CHOICE to make themselves beautiful and alter the way the world sees them, you strip them of self-agency and in turn power.
I'm also saying that beauty is a powerful thing - don't sit here on a fashion board and try to tell me otherwise.

>>6201748
Not to mention that in many traditional male dominated patriarchies, women are usually prevented from attaining any sort of influence by conventional means... like, say, leaving the house, owning property, having a say in politics & law or not spending the years between 15-50 doing nothing but shitting out kids one after another and cooking meals

I have a hijab fetish

>>6201748
but who gets to declare that the choice to wear a hiqab or burqa is not also a choice to be beautiful? these women r operating from different religious and cultural contexts than legislators and critics who appear determined 2 impose some anglocentric idea of desirability onto them

>"y dont u want 2 b appealing 2 the statistically average french male??? or the american male????" etc.

let us recall also that none of the countries proposing bans on these garments r the society described here >>6201789 ... or at least not explicitly so :--------------) but there is a very curious correlation between attempts to restrict what these women may wear and a return to extreme right wing political ideologies, esp in europe

what i RLLY find egregious about this whole thing is that once again the debate returns to what a woman does or does not choose to place on her body. the issue is never the mechanisms that impose these oppressive ideas -- that a womens appearance is some measure of her power or social stature and must b debated, legislated, etc. before any mention of smth like her access 2 education -- the lens of scrutiny always seems to fall on the women who are the victims of those mechanisms and the personal choices they make

>picture unrelated

Bump for interest

>mfw this thread was taken seriously #_#