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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/fa/ - Fashion


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File: 537 KB, 480x640, 1673864256637263.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17645409 No.17645409 [Reply] [Original]

/btg/ BOOT GENERAL - BURLAP EDITION

What do I need to care for my boots?
>Old cotton t shirt (one for cleaning, another for applying conditioners)
>Horsehair brush ($10-15)
>Wooden shoe trees ($10-15)
>Light conditioner like Lexol/Bck4/renovateur
>Heavy conditioner (if you live in terrible snow/rain areas) Sno seal/Obernauf LP
>Don't forget that boots need time to dry properly, rotate them an

How do I deal with x stain?
>mud: allow it to dry then brush off
>salt: water and cloth as soon as possible
>saturated wet: allow the boot to dry for a full day, stuff with newspaper
>scuffs and scratches: buff vigorously with horsehair brush

>Should I buy turdsdays/soloshits/doc shitans?
No they are filled with synthetic materials aimed at instant comfort but will not hold up to actual use.
>b-b-but muh ecelebs on youtube said they're good
no. you will waste your time and money and still have uncomfortable footwear at the end of the day. spend the extra $100 and get something real.

Manufacturer Red Flags
>Luxury
>Sustainable
>Vegan
>Unknown leather source
>Made in Chyna/Mexico/Indonesia

Boot Red Flags
>Dainite
>C*rk/C*lastic
>Zippers
>Non gusseted tongues
>Excessive/unnecessary seams

PREV>>17636929

>> No.17645441

bumping for question about mail-in cobblers >>17645406

>> No.17645444
File: 1.93 MB, 2208x2944, 20211002_170957.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17645444

Parabros checking in.

>> No.17645495
File: 2.08 MB, 1170x1515, 22566532-E1F9-4D30-8C0F-BC916D5C1F24.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17645495

>>17645444
Based chad reporting in

>> No.17645610
File: 137 KB, 1080x725, DD106571-91A1-4B37-99B6-36CB30DA127A.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17645610

>>17645444
>>17645495

>> No.17645651

>>17645444
>>17645495
*Honk honk*

>> No.17645746

>>17645441
with a mail in youd really have to check for past reviews and examples of work ideally on a platform not conevred to them. you also have to account for shipping

again just make sure you're resolving something worth resoling

>> No.17645829

>>17645444
>>17645495
how do you size these? Has anyone measured the insoles?

>> No.17645832

>>17645829
True to size, 45 eu is 45

>> No.17645838

>>17645832
where i'm buying it's either 10.5, 11.5 or 12 US
coincidentally, i wear 45 EU
If yours are 45, could you measure it?

>> No.17645887
File: 1.42 MB, 938x938, 6389FA46-0AA2-46FE-86B6-F7508FD2BAA7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17645887

>>17645610
>>17645651
Stay mad faggot

>> No.17645904

>>17645887
why is your head evaportaing

>> No.17645921

>>17645904
bc his 'fit is fire?

>> No.17645997

>>17645921
cap
why are you gassing him?

>> No.17646018

>>17645997
poor attempt at humor, my apologizes anon

>> No.17646057

>>17645887
>puffer
knew you were a poofter all along

>> No.17646094
File: 2.58 MB, 1162x817, 1672563685401728.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17646094

>you can see the outline of the celastic heel counter

>> No.17646204
File: 152 KB, 1438x482, Skoak.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17646204

last chance

>> No.17646220

>>17646204
why would i get these when carmina is roughly the same price ?

>> No.17646224

>>17646220
handwelted

inb4 hurr durr GYW is the same

>> No.17646231

>>17646220
the price shown is the 50% deposit, it's quite a bit more expensive than Carmina

but these are handwelted, handlasted, a bit better construction overall (leather heel stiffener etc) and in my opinion better looking lasts.
Also I love the look of the Bonafe welt with the deep grooves.

You can ask Carmina for "hard fudging" (grooves) on the welt too but it's nothing like the Bonafe look.

>> No.17646281
File: 584 KB, 702x544, 1670437249934235.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17646281

>> No.17646331

>>17646204
How was that ugly pos on the right 100% funded

>> No.17646364

>>17646331
the people who buy enzo bonafe probably have already run the gamut on generic mass available styles so more niche styles like austerity brogues or two toned will be popular

>> No.17646561
File: 394 KB, 2439x1816, dan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17646561

Do i even bother with shoe trees for these things?

>> No.17646571
File: 203 KB, 958x1200, Autumn men fashion styles.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17646571

>no western high cuban heel boots
You niglets don't even trying, but try to dress like autistic slavic soldiers

>> No.17646572

>>17646561
shoe trees are a scam

>>17646571
slav soldiers dont get leather boots

>> No.17646788
File: 2.28 MB, 4032x3024, C1422857-5845-48B4-8180-C8BBA997DADE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17646788

Red wing black harness leather iron rangers broke in nicely and are my everyday work footwear

Never conditioned or protected with anything. Just wipe them down daily with damp cloth if dirty like pic related. But im working rn so idgaf. Dirty or clean these things work with almost any outfit.

Inb4 clown shoes

>> No.17646800

>>17646788
This dude wearing pajamas

>> No.17646811

>>17646788
based
keep on trucking ir bro

>> No.17646822

>>17646800
Lmfao theyre actually denim like slim fit pants from H&M

I dont love them but was given them by a friend

I shoulda wore my actual black work pants for the pic. I knew you were out there waiting to comment on my “pyjamas” lol

>> No.17646829

>>17646811
I just work a retail job but in the past year got promoted to management. I wear a black company t and black straight fitted dress pants for work every day and i got tired of replacing cheap shitty black shoes every year so i invested in these and am glad cause with the money they cost me ill be glad to resole them when necessary and the leathers tough and can take a beating and can be polished if i want to.

Thanks for the recognition bro

>> No.17646835

>>17646788
Looks really good, those pants and boots would look good with a black jean jacket or something similar. I don't think it looks like clown shoes, I think that insult is a result of manlets that wear under size 11 seething

>> No.17646837

>>17646829
dont let the other guy kill your vibe
if you put on the plaid pants in the morning and feel the vibe then fuck the haters
when you resole ask for a thin leather midsole though

>> No.17646844

>>17646837
Ill look into that when the time comes! Thanks man.
Im on a work trip and watching seinfeld drinking pbr so it was a choice out of the two pants on the table in front of me lol.

>> No.17646847

>>17646835
I really like them with a black tee and black blazer too. Or the black blazer and a grey turtleneck.

>> No.17646852
File: 604 KB, 1440x1800, tacxin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17646852

>>17645409
can i get an id on these boots

>> No.17646856

>>17646852
Dude looks like he sells coke in clubs and slips drunk chicks Rohypnol

>> No.17646862

>>17646852
get help

>> No.17646953
File: 335 KB, 406x371, 1630160724736.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17646953

We should collaboratively make a big and comprehensive graphic /boot/ guide like those of olden /fa/ days
With cheap to expensive, US and EU, dress boots, work boots, combat boots, etc

>> No.17646954

>>17646953
when's the last time /fa/ has produced any good infographic?

>> No.17646956

>>17646954
who knows, either way it's time to change it

>> No.17646960

>>17646852
BOA boots

>> No.17646965

>>17646960
are they comfy?

>> No.17646967

>>17646954
Over a decade. Not even joking.

>> No.17646973
File: 1012 KB, 2547x3312, 1653579809613.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17646973

>>17646956
is this one good for 2023?

>> No.17646976

>>17646973
not bad

>> No.17646981

>>17646973
It's ok, but I'm thinking of something more comprehensive. Eg. have it be subdivided into the aforementioned categories, have 5 or so boots agreed on by anons in each category, arranged by price, and then next to each boot have a price or rough price range or just a price rating eg. $,$$,$$$, where it's made (US, EU, China, etc), where it's sold (US/EU), and maybe a little extra info
Something like that

>> No.17647014

do you guys know anything about the sizing of oatsteet bootmaker storm boots? tts? it looks like it but I'm wondering if I can fit a half size down since I really like this pair I see second hand

>> No.17647028

>>17646965
You tell me

>> No.17647031

>>17647028
they kind of look comfy

>> No.17647117
File: 148 KB, 1200x1049, ezgif-4-4d0c3031c9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17647117

What do you anons think of these casual Timberland chelsea boots?

>> No.17647208

>>17647117
toe shape is terrible, burnishing is terrible, panels are terible, sole is terrible, opening is too big

>> No.17647488

>>17647208
I found a pair for $50, I can overcome those issues

>> No.17647498

>>17647117
fucking ugly, too many panels, throat looks looser than a wizard sleeve

>> No.17647531
File: 316 KB, 1253x1133, s-l1600[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17647531

Wrinkled pleather being sold as "shell cordovan" on Ebay for $400.

>> No.17647534

>>17647488
yeah $50 is fair

>> No.17647535

>>17646973
Allen Edmonds should move one tier down. I think Red Wings are way better.

>> No.17647544

>>17646973
thursday = shit tier. anon do you work for thurdays?

>> No.17647546

>>17646973
trash, start over/try again.

>> No.17647562
File: 141 KB, 640x853, mv8fq80q0a191.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17647562

>>17647531
Cordovan is not wrinkle proof, it just doesn't crease the same way leather does.
It will never do those veiny creases like pic related but it doesn't sit taut either

>> No.17647569
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17647569

>> No.17647608

>>17647562
I've seen some pictures of bad creasing on meermin shell

>> No.17647612

>>17647608
I only consider Horween shell to be shell, the rest can behave very weirdly like water spots that stain permanently after a light drizzle

>> No.17647680

>>17647569
please continue

>> No.17647701

I like how boot threads always end up as a circlejerk of dress boots, pnw boots and engineers lol

>> No.17647714

>>17647701
Feel free to contribute with the boots you like.

>> No.17647721
File: 366 KB, 220x220, 1657523540653146.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17647721

>>17647701
i like how people complaining about /btg/ never posts boots

>> No.17647738
File: 3.11 MB, 2314x1160, egb.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17647738

what color for my first engineer?

>> No.17647741

>>17647562
That is not shell. You can see the grain.

>> No.17647743

>>17647701
It's the engineer boots circlejerk that I don't get. Super niche style, and yet there's presence in every thread since that one guy with a pair of Wescos is a regular poster here

>> No.17647746

>>17647741
quick delete your post before he sees

>> No.17647751

>>17647738
Black

>> No.17647764

>>17647738
black

>> No.17647795
File: 510 KB, 1662x2048, 168488089729716627.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17647795

>>17647701
There’s only so many genres of boots

>> No.17647803

>>17647764
>>17647751
can't do it, bros.
I know black is the original engineer but I just dislike black boots.

>> No.17647804

>>17647738
the burgundy

>> No.17647827

>>17647738
burgundy

>> No.17647874

>>17647803
I'd never own boots that aren't black.

>> No.17647889
File: 1.76 MB, 1087x889, 1659926659399146.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17647889

russell moc double vamp construction

>> No.17647902

>>17647795
I get my cowboy boots and “polo” boots from Maida, but I’m not gonna post pictures of them.
>what are polo boots
Riding boots for horsies. I ride horses to class.
https://www.maidas.com/polo-and-riding-boots/

>> No.17647965
File: 3.84 MB, 2987x3194, 20230601_180232.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17647965

>>17647795
With that attitude, maybe

>> No.17647999
File: 286 KB, 1280x960, vibergclicking.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17647999

dude if i ever hear how great vibergs clicking is again

>> No.17648002

>>17647999
Everyone knows to get the 2040.

>> No.17648017

>>17647999
they really are a meme reddit brand

>> No.17648024

>>17648017
>t. bought the wrong size in 2030 and still can’t get a buyer for his shitty stinky used boots

>> No.17648025
File: 138 KB, 1080x1080, 1685659617546.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17648025

Dat rolling dub trio though
Also here is swiss store sellig Japanese boots an leathers if any of you europoors are interested
https://tempodesignstore.com/collections/men-all/products/forester-ii-1276-sole-in-dark-beige-nakamurasen-nosuke-special-suede

>> No.17648037

>>17648025
>how many layers of midsole you want
>all of them

>> No.17648046

>>17648024
>t. bought the most overpriced mass-produced cxl service boot in existance, because reddit and stridewise told him it's "the best"

>> No.17648072

>>17648025
buying from mountain niggers still needs customs clearance into the EU, so it's about as worth it as buying directly from japan or US, the shipping isn't even that much cheaper

>> No.17648079

>>17645887
>>17645495
What pants are those?

>> No.17648082

>>17648072
But they’re in the Schengen Area right?

>> No.17648085

>>17648082
schengen is about traveling without border control, without needing a visa or passport and switzerland is in
but they are not in the european economic area which means you are fucked by customs if you buy from there

>> No.17648154

>>17648085
That’s fucked. So say for example if you go to Switzerland for cheap Red Bull then go back to Tyrol, you have to pay customs for simply walking across the street?

>> No.17648293

fuck it were making a infographic tomorrow

>> No.17648431

>>17648082
Yea, they are part of the EEA which also means free movement of goods.

>> No.17648506

>>17648431
idk where you heard that but whenever I've bought anything from Switzerland I've been hit with customs, likewise buying from EU to Switzerland
t. have relatives there

>> No.17648682

Suk

>> No.17648698

>>17646973
JK Boots are missing

>> No.17648748

>>17648698
that guide is like 5 years old and a lot of it is wrong

>> No.17648792

>>17648046
I didn’t buy cxl, I bought horsebutt. There’s one anon bitching and moaning about his 2030s that are the wrong size that he can’t offload.

>> No.17648804

>>17648792
>Live in Moldova-tier shitty paved street
Blame Dainite
>Buy wrong size/ last boots
Blame structured toe
>Buy wrong size/last again
Blame Viberg

Welcome to /btg/

>> No.17648854
File: 288 KB, 1800x1202, Enzo-Bonaf-3931-Meleze-and-Inca-01_1800x1800.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17648854

Skoak's GMTO for June

>> No.17648859
File: 172 KB, 1200x801, Enzo-Bonaf-3931-Meleze-and-Inca-02_1800x1800.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17648859

>>17648854
Full price is €632 + VAT

363mod last (a bit wide)
commando sole
270 chained norvegese

keep in mind Bonafe shoes with norvegese stitching end up with a very wide welt

Handwelted, handlasted and all of that obviously

>> No.17648862
File: 382 KB, 1800x1201, Enzo-Bonafe-3934-Oak-Tarnsjo-363-mod-Last-1kopia_1800x1800.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17648862

their other GMTO is a longwing

you can see how the norvegese stitching results in a giant welt
I don't like it but maybe some do

>> No.17648865
File: 204 KB, 1800x1201, Enzo-Bonafe-3966-Hidro-Tabacco-946-Last-1_1800x1800.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17648865

>>17648862
last one is a suede quarter brogue adelaide oxford on a square-ish chisel last

i'm actually a big fan of this exact makeup but for comfort reasons I wouldn't do it with just a single leather sole

>> No.17648942
File: 108 KB, 864x775, 32A1F847-51EF-4CCF-BECE-F4AE62373314.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17648942

>Straight mirin Tesla‘s boots

>> No.17649035
File: 178 KB, 2464x1362, Capture d’écran 2023-06-02 à 18.58.06.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649035

>>17648431
Free movement of goods my ass, I've seen two-way tickets to Mallorca cheaper than this.

>> No.17649051

>>17649035
Did you send them back?
Because shipping should be free when you buy

I've bought from Skoak and returned and although Sweden is not in EU it was free both ways

>> No.17649055
File: 1.83 MB, 1258x1307, egb2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649055

>>17647738
>>17647804
>>17647827
I did it, bros.
Pulled the trigger on the burgundy.
Now have to wait at most 30 days for it to be manufactured, plus 5~7 for shipping.
God help me.

>> No.17649058

>>17649055
from who?

>> No.17649061

>>17649051
No, it's custom + dhl service fee because they paid it for me. This group of niggers will always try to cheat your money.

>> No.17649070
File: 2.76 MB, 2048x1152, 1672906985232820.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649070

>> No.17649077

>>17649058
small south american cobbler from my country.
shipping included it cost me the equivalent of about USD 120.
although the quality isn't close to the famous american engineer boots it's a bargain.

>> No.17649080
File: 522 KB, 640x360, 1683335976187928.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649080

>>17649077
can't wait to see those disasters

>> No.17649088

>>17649080
you have already seen it.
these were made by him, both obviously were worn for a while, they are not brand-new. What's so wrong with them?
>>17649055
>>17647738

>> No.17649109

>>17649055
Is the left boot’s top made out of paper?

>> No.17649116

>tfw finally wearing real boots again after 3 days of running shoes

>> No.17649130

>>17649070
division road?

>> No.17649135

>>17649109
Isn't chromexcel great?

>> No.17649140

>>17649088
i've seen plenty a people going to these small independent bootmakers thinking they're a deal of a lifetime and they almost always turn out bad

>>17649130
yes new collab with White's

>> No.17649161

>>17649140
>they almost always turn out bad
We'll see, I hope not.
There are 6 reviews of two different engineer boot models and one review of a harness boot made by him, nothing but 5/5 stars and compliments on the leather and construction quality, beauty and comfort.
Worst case I return it for free.

>> No.17649218

what do you call the boots that the metalhead skinheads usually wear? I need to get a good pair

>> No.17649220

>>17649161
What’s the name?

>> No.17649222
File: 224 KB, 2048x1365, CDDBC5CB-9DA7-4DFA-90D8-CE96EC545DD7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649222

>>17649218
Metalheads should wear metal boots. Tricouni could make a fortune on this.

>> No.17649224

>>17649218
Combat boots

>> No.17649227

>>17649224
any good recommendations that aren't overly faggy?

>> No.17649229

>>17649227
Literally any cheap military surplus available in your country. Dress for your environment, like those S.E.A. Muslim punk rockers-ex: Jungle Boots

>> No.17649236

>>17649218
some guy in these threads has posted some sick fits with black boots

>> No.17649255

>>17649227
http://www.tarzanshoes.co.za/military--security.html

>> No.17649279

why do yall like them chunky shaft engineer boots

>> No.17649281

>>17649279
Not ballsy enough to wear cowboy boots, ballsy enough to present as homosexual.

>> No.17649287

>>17649227
jungle boots, corcorans, austrian paraboots, any number of surplus combat boots (genesco, ro-search, wellco, etc. search those on ebay)

>> No.17649294

>>17649279
literally just zoomers/millennials with too much money wanting to fit in with their 4chan friends.

>> No.17649297

>>17649281
>Not ballsy enough to wear cowboy boots
I admit to this, lol.

>> No.17649299

>>17649297
but they don't even look good lol. some skinnyfat twink wearing engineers just looks like a tryhard biker wannabe

>> No.17649305

>>17649297
If you’re from Texas, you have a free pass to wear cowboy boots all over the world. Just crank the accent up.

>> No.17649308

>>17649299
I get what you are saying. One just needs to go to instagram and see all the asians into workwear.
All items of the fit are workwear yet they all look brandnew, and the twink wearing them looks like he can't open a pickle jar.
Good thing I'm a muscular and lean broad-
shouldered 6'3 guy that rides a 650cc bike :^)

>> No.17649315

>>17649308
If your bike is measured in cc and not horsepower, you’re a fag.

>> No.17649319

>>17649315
50 hp my brother in christ.
chill

>> No.17649326

>>17649319
>6’3”
>on a tiny bike
Pitiful. I bet you’re the designated twink for the middle aged “biker gang” AKA your sugar daddies lmao what a cute little lady you are.

Unless it’s a classic Triumph. Then you get a pass.

>> No.17649332
File: 267 KB, 500x350, squint.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649332

>>17649326
>I bet you’re the designated twink for the middle aged “biker gang” AKA your sugar daddies lmao what a cute little lady you are.

>> No.17649336
File: 148 KB, 435x307, screenshot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649336

Any suggestions for boots similar to these Danners? My size is out of stock from every place I've found these from and I am starting to get desperate.

>> No.17649345

>>17648862
>you can see how the norvegese stitching results in a giant welt I don't like it but maybe some do
this is one of those things that i like, bu i know that i can't pull off. i like seeing others who can.

>> No.17649410

>>17649279
why do yall like complaining about btg without ever posting boots?

>> No.17649415
File: 889 KB, 1000x777, 1672467733158400.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649415

>> No.17649439

>>17649336
Steinkogler makes stitchdown boots of mich higher quality compared to Danner.
>>17649415
There’s a Russell moc video made by some soi faggot cuck who keeps plastering his dysgenic face with the shitty AI camera follow effect. Completely ruined my impression of these permanently.

>> No.17649618
File: 1.60 MB, 1179x870, IMG_5013.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649618

> 3 eyelets
> 2 speedhooks
> on a ~8” boot

Holy fucking shit. People actually think this looks good?

>> No.17649627

>>17649618
it just looks off, but i can't explain why.

>> No.17649632

>>17649439
why do you let youtubers live rent free in your head like that? that has no bearing on the boot's quality you autist

>> No.17649671

>>17649222
where do you get tricouni hobnails?

>> No.17649682
File: 1.90 MB, 3024x3024, 20230602_164632.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649682

B-)

>> No.17649702
File: 20 KB, 301x301, 1671338546913659.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649702

>>17649682
>zippers

>> No.17649706

>>17649618
adelante looks horrible
the super short counter cover fucks the entire side profile and the eyelets are a travesty

>> No.17649737
File: 108 KB, 634x667, 3929f8b6b8ae43898872da5dcf96dc9b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649737

Shiacore needs a comeback

>> No.17649771
File: 678 KB, 2048x1536, IMG_1222.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17649771

With CK pants

>> No.17649936

>>17647965
What type of boots are these? I'm new to the whole boot fashion stuff and have been looking for boots like that specifically

>> No.17649943

>>17649936
Surplus Austrian feldschuh leicht boots. People refer to them as Austrian paratrooper boots online for some reason. They're hard to find for sale now, but they used to be readily available used online for cheap, but the supply of them dried up a good bit after the Austrian military started letting members take them home after their service. They ARE available new, but the manufacturers don't like selling to civvies new, and if you do it's a long wait time and lots of shipping if you aren't in the EU. They might be a little easier to find in surplus stores in Europe, but idk where you're from. Your best bet is to keep checking ebay and online surplus stores, you may get lucky and find a pair.

>> No.17650012

>>17649161
> south american cobbler
> six reviews total
You are NEVER seeing these boots anon I'm sorry

>> No.17650033

>>17650012
I'm still waiting on a $600 leather jacket from ToJ an American company that decided to start making leather biker jackets for mid-price, they got so many orders people are receiving half-falling-apart jackets like 10 years later because they'd rather extend production indefinitely than get sued into oblivion considering they got a quick $3m in cash in orders from several hundred people yet are only able to make ~7 jackets per year.

>> No.17650047
File: 28 KB, 478x500, 5076860af685d42540.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650047

>>17645409
are french rangers any good?

>> No.17650084

>>17650012
Nah bro, I know memes, south america shithole, jungle, niggers, thiefs.
But I have no doubt I'll get them.
Save the date, about july 15th I'll post them here.

>> No.17650090

>>17650047
Yes they are. Just make sure to get the right brand, because just like the austrian memes they have fakes and shitty ones (if you bought steinADLERs you're dumb). Unfortunately I get to wear mine like 5-10 times a year tops.

https://survivalisme-survie.fr/test-brodequins-rangers/

>> No.17650107

>>17649737
I wear my sfb a lot. Memes aside, they are by far more comfortable than most of my boots and shoes.

>> No.17650127
File: 905 KB, 1800x1200, 1661691983927173.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650127

enzo bonafe tobacco suede PTB on 363MOD GMTO for 530 euros on the noble shoe.

>> No.17650144

>>17650127
Damn I just got a very similar makeup from Carmina.
I'd have preferred a Bonafe version but not with that sole

>> No.17650146

>>17650144
same lol, would have also preferred bonafe but the color isn't my thing either. Would have pulled the trigger if it was hidro jasper suede (same as mink suede)
Vibram Eton is not bad though.

>> No.17650156
File: 2.11 MB, 1080x1350, Alden PTB.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650156

>>17650144
Also another thing is, I did look at Bonafe's PTB designs before ordering from Carmina, and I didn't like that the facings are so close together and almost touching.

In fact I'd have preferred the Alden version with the facings sort of pulling away at the bottom. But Carmina's facings are fine too and leave a decent gap.

>> No.17650210
File: 3.88 MB, 4032x3024, 20230603_160628.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650210

Just conditioned my Paraboots with GlenKaren shoe cream, much better results than with my cheap ass liquid shoe cream I used to use. They really pop now.
Should probably get some flat brown laces for these as well.

>> No.17650231
File: 134 KB, 1407x938, paraboot-montana-jannu-noire-vel-marron-200448-avant.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650231

Thoughts?

>> No.17650270

>>17650231
>Thoughts?
no thanks

>> No.17650638

>>17650231
gross and why

>> No.17650650

>>17648293
rip

>> No.17650654
File: 309 KB, 1600x1200, s-l1600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650654

just got a size 15 pair of these
they look ok

>> No.17650656
File: 175 KB, 267x332, 1671243211857541.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650656

>>17650654
>they look ok

>> No.17650659

>>17646981
I like the sound of this.
>Dress
>Chelsea
>Pull-On (to include engies and cowboy boots)
>Service
>Combat
>Work
>Hiking
Should cover the major categories without getting too autistic. Then we can have a recommended boot at 4 or 5 price points in each category

>> No.17650669

>>17650659
what about chukka/jodhpur

>> No.17650678

>>17650669
what about sneeda/poojeetur

>> No.17650683
File: 426 KB, 900x900, 1655770503762065.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650683

Anyone have the crown desert shoes (or boots)? They seem like the perfect option for an unlined summer shoe, even if it won't be arrive until late summer this year. I wanna pull the trigger but i can't find any pics. Also how are crepe soles?

>> No.17650709
File: 1.13 MB, 3000x1359, 1666043926004518.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650709

>>17645409
what kind of boot is that.
Looks real similar to Tanker boots

>> No.17650711

>>17650709
engineer boots, although it's not in a common makeup.

>> No.17650713

>>17650669
Chukkas should be on the list. I forgot about those.
Jodhpurs are gay. And they fill the same wardrobe niche as chelseas and dress boots so they don't need to be their own category

>> No.17650763
File: 175 KB, 1349x900, 119512815_3202181569899797_5247978756261800830_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650763

In your opinion, who makes the best engineer boot?

>> No.17650774
File: 348 KB, 1400x1200, mb9165mv-1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650774

>>17650763
White's

>> No.17650779

>>17650763
i like my wescos, john lofgrens are ok but a little overpriced imo

>> No.17650802
File: 1.15 MB, 4032x3024, IMG_2181.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650802

>>17650779
I fucking love my lofgrens. I had a pair of Wescos but the heel counter was just so uncomfortable. I definitely had the right size, but the size of the heel counter was just way too small and it was made of some plastic material. My instep and width was just perfect to fit into a pair of lofgrens. They are definitely quite pricey, but I'd also that they are made with more attention to detail than the Wescos and if you're already paying $700+ for a pair of engineers, you might as well get something that is going to have a really good design and construction quality.

>> No.17650805

Are there any engineer boot options in yurop?

>> No.17650809

>>17650805
Yeah, check out East West Apparel. They have a decent sized selection of engineers.

>> No.17650820

>>17650809
No, anon. Europe. Not the UK.

>> No.17650821

>>17650809
ingerland isn't part of europe anymore

>> No.17650825

>>17650820
>>17650821
u fokin wot m8

>> No.17650830

>>17650802
> it was made of some plastic material
yes the celastic toe cap on the lofgrens are terrible

>> No.17650833

Wouldn't mind some clinch engineers but i don't think i can wear them.

>> No.17650838
File: 30 KB, 720x482, 238502380952.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650838

>>17650833
Clinch is my much coveted pair of engineers. I'm hoping that they put out a batch of their wide last in teacore around the end of the year so I can blow my bonus from work on them

>> No.17650844

>>17650825
I don't want to deal with customs. I really don't. Please understand.

>> No.17650845

>>17650844
>East West Apparel will pay any taxes and duties due on your order when it enters your country ahead of time so that your order comes to you as quick as before without any further costs involved.

>> No.17650850

>>17650809
Their prices on white's seem alright for EU? I can't believe i might actually buy a pair because i want to get rid of some frustration.
What would white's fags recommend? Semi dress or Cruiser?

>> No.17650852

>>17650845
Haven't checked the shipping terms page yet, but on the homepage it says they do it for orders over 300.

>> No.17650856

>>17650838
what is so seriously special about these japanese elf booties that people are fighting themselves to blindly drop 2k on them, besides the obvious "i need them because i can't have them" limited availability hype trap and muh grorious nippon heritage

>> No.17650862
File: 127 KB, 483x641, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650862

Hey I don't want to be rude bro, and I'm sorry for saying this, but whoever recommended me this website needs to stop posting forever.

>> No.17650870
File: 292 KB, 1184x1776, 498793874523.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17650870

>>17650856
Its a combination of it being a perfect last design, the impeccable construction quality, the quality of the teacore horsehide they use and how it has incredible rolling patina texture, and then of course the higher cost associated with paying someone a living wage to construct the boot and then resell it overseas through 3rd party distributors for some level of profit. In my opinion, the design is perfect because of the low toe profile which allows for a super authentic vintage rolling patina. Is it ACTUALLY worth $800-$1,000 more than a pair of lofgrens? Probably not. However, if you manage to arguably make a perfect engineer boot design, $2k isn't really going to stop anyone from buying it and if you are hesitant about spending that much on a boot, you realistically don't have enough income to be buying higher-tier leather footwear in the first place

>> No.17650954

>>17650830
If your feet are too fat, that’s your problem.

>> No.17650960

>>17650838
i just love how the vamp tucks back in. they're too expensive for me, but even if i could afford them clinch's lasts just don't fit me at all. even the wide last can't handle my ogre feet. i hope you can get a pair in the makeup that you want.

>> No.17651010

>>17650960
I guess if you’re ever able to drop $2k on a pair of engineers, you might as well go the MTO route and get some role clubs

>> No.17651110

>>17650960
Just a heads up, clinch boots are designed to be XN in a half-size up. That is what creates the creasing and shape profile.
>>17651010
Brian the Bootmaker is unreliable, as he mishmashes with various inferior materials on a whim. He does not stick to a proper high-quality formula.

>> No.17651187
File: 86 KB, 744x992, 812.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651187

These aren't my photos but I bought these recently. Any thoughts?

>> No.17651189
File: 81 KB, 744x992, 560.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651189

>>17651187

>> No.17651191
File: 66 KB, 744x992, 780.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651191

>>17651189

>> No.17651192

>>17651187
What are your plans for making fits with them?

>> No.17651195

>>17651187
Look gorgeous. What brand?

>> No.17651202

>>17651187
>tanker boots but lets add laces which defeats the purpose

>> No.17651216

>>17651195
I'm not too sure of the brand but I know that they're from a custom boot maker in Hong Kong. The person who sold them to me also kept referring to them as "bespoke". I really only bought them because I loved the look.

>>17651192
Honestly you guys might hate how I dress but my usual fit is typically boots with cuffed or bloused jeans and some kind of milsurp jacket from my collection.
I'm open to outfit suggestions however if you guys have anything in mind.

>> No.17651220

>>17651216
Dress like the Soldier from Team Fortress 2.

>> No.17651222

>>17651216
>bespoke
ain't bespoke until they're custom making lasts for the guy

>> No.17651236

>>17651222
Is that what bespoke is? I'm unfamiliar with the term.

>> No.17651248

>>17651236
bespoke means you go to a tailor or a cobbler and speak to them. based on your conversation, the crafstman then makes you something completely from scratch, fitted uniquely to you.

>> No.17651267

>>17651248
Oh cool! I might've actually gotten these boots for a steal in that case.

>> No.17651280

>>17648506
Do you happen to know if any of them have a Ricardo.ch account? I'd like to buy something from there through one of your relatives as a proxy. To be specific, it's a pair of hobnails/Kappenagel.

>> No.17651297
File: 754 KB, 1067x1600, 5472452.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651297

what are you guys thoughts on marsell boots ?
do these look good

>> No.17651304

>>17651280
Don't think they do, nor do I think would they want any anons buying anything through them if they did
Can't you use some kind of freight forwarding service or something like that?

>> No.17651305

>>17651297
>do these look good
Not really

>> No.17651306

>>17651304
I'm not aware of any that would buy some hobnails on a glorified eBay service for me. Do you happen to know any? Any suggestions are appreciated.

>> No.17651322
File: 1.90 MB, 1000x1000, 1670484812731977.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651322

>> No.17651454

Are Schott NYC boots legit? They look kinda suspicious. My jacket is alright though. Maybe the boots will be cool.

>> No.17651524

>>17651306
I don't, I just assumed there might be some

>> No.17651525

https://www.maslaus.com/collections/jam

Thoughts?

>> No.17651636

>>17645409
Need some recommendations for some good work boots gonna be on pavement all day in the rain as well. The last pair I got lasted about a month.

>> No.17651669
File: 1.98 MB, 3024x3024, 1685891665189.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651669

>>17650763
>In your opinion, who makes the best engineer boot?
Excluding 1 man operations clinch makes the best

>> No.17651672

The europoor fears the customs agent

>> No.17651687

>>17651672
taxation is theft

>> No.17651689

>>17651669
I'm going to make it a goal to get a pair this year. I'll probably just blow my bonus check or tax returns on some. Problem is that they only produce like one batch per year

>> No.17651691

>>17651687
You pay 30% vat on everything you buy, but because it's already added to the price you are too stupid to conceptualize it.

>> No.17651692
File: 69 KB, 794x635, 1685892611943.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651692

Finna cop dat zero drop

>> No.17651695

>>17651636
redwing 875s or 1907s are classic pavement pounding work boots that you won't feel bad about beating up, but should last a long time.

>> No.17651698
File: 61 KB, 794x635, 1685892640554.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651698

>>17651692
Yeah boys im thinking effay

>> No.17651701
File: 277 KB, 1400x1200, 1685892762463.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651701

>>17651695
Might as well just spend an extra $20 for whites

>> No.17651702
File: 1.74 MB, 1920x1080, 45754754745.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651702

What boots is he wearing?

>> No.17651720

>>17651267
but bespoke means they're not good for you unless you have the exact same feet as the original owner
that's why buying anything actually bespoke is a real hit or miss and is almost always miss because your feet aren't the same

>> No.17651722

>>17651692
>>17651698
>barefoot style boots
eh

>> No.17651726
File: 858 KB, 1400x1200, 1658676818183427.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651726

Hey white's fags, getting a semi dress probably. What's the sizing like on the 55 last? Im a UK10 TTS (US11) not sure if i should go US10 or US10.5.

>> No.17651759

>>17651726
I’m 11.5UK in C&J and 12UK in Stows. I have some LTTs on the 55 last in 11.5D

>> No.17651764

>>17651702
Unstructured toe, some kind of suede or most likely roughout, eyelets all the way up

I've seen him wear PNW stuff before, probably some American brand

>> No.17651771

>>17651759
which C&J last? im 10UK in stows.

>> No.17651782

>>17651771
365 and 336. I brannock ~12D US.

>> No.17651788

>>17651782
i see, thanks.

>> No.17651791

>>17651726
i went half size down from brannock

>> No.17651930

>>17645409
>>Should I buy turdsdays/soloshits/doc shitans?
>No they are filled with synthetic materials aimed at instant comfort but will not hold up to actual use.
>>b-b-but muh ecelebs on youtube said they're good
>no. you will waste your time and money and still have uncomfortable footwear at the end of the day. spend the extra $100 and get something real.
So what should i buy? Why tell others only what is bad?

>> No.17651947

>>17651930
what are you looking for

>> No.17651950
File: 1.85 MB, 386x480, 1662591681195453.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651950

>>17651947
he's looking to justify his turdsdays purchase

>> No.17651955
File: 132 KB, 1000x1000, f7c2730c-b7d1-40fe-b81b-50088b192c57.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17651955

>> No.17651959 [DELETED] 

Femanons if diversity is a strength why are things getting worse?

>> No.17651975

>>17651959
What does this have to do with boots, you autist?

>> No.17651977

>>17651975
kek

>> No.17652008

>>17651947
Well made boots, for walk in the cities but also in a wet terrain (but not necessarily idrorepellent or technical), since we are talking about boots that are for casual daily i don't want to spend too much, because it isn't for a wedding

>>17651950
I don't know, someone say that they are good for the price but they look too suspicius for me so i don't trust their word. But why don't you try to give some advice? Are you some of those fags that fear the judgments because you are a pseudo connoisseur?

>> No.17652010
File: 978 KB, 928x799, 1659551062460261.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17652010

>>17652008
standard profit markup is 30-40%
turdsdays sells boots for 199-250
they spend a ton in advertising through influencers
do the math, the materials and labour is where they cut their corners and it shows

>> No.17652014

>>17651947
>style
Chukka, cap toe, chelsea (but i don't know since sometimes the elastic could be made with cheap materials), service boots
>price
100/300
>Use
Daily
> Pro
Very durable, slip resistant (but not too technical), comfortable

I prefer utility over style but they need at least a little bit of style

>> No.17652018

>>17652014
at that price you're looking at the cheaper spanish or portugese options. Maybe tricker's on the outlet ON sale, but that needs luck to find something in your size that you want during a sale.

>> No.17652021

>>17652014
Yanko has some stitchdown chukkas for like 170€

Could look at Grant Stone, Red Wing, maybe Trickers on sale

>> No.17652027

>>17652010
I know it's pretty common nowdays to make thinks cheap and give all the money to influencers or manager
>>17652018
>>17652021
Thanks, i will check later, what do you know about crownhill?

>> No.17652071

>>17652018
Any good spanish/portuguese brands?
>>17652021
Thanks for yanko, they looks fine. Unfortunally the iron ranger are the only one that i would buy from red wing, but i heard that they are overpriced and nowdays use cheaper materials.

>> No.17652079

>>17652071
>>Any good spanish/portuguese brands?
https://bespokeunit.com/shoes/spanish/
don't know much about portugal other than carlos santos, i think they are out of your price range.

>> No.17652096
File: 1.40 MB, 698x874, 1668529247430236.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17652096

>>17652027
you also get the famous mexican build quality and QC

>> No.17652098

>>17646973
want these

>> No.17652099
File: 34 KB, 253x196, boot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17652099

>>17652098

>> No.17652138

>>17647701
Most of them are faggots that only have one pair of boots is why. City dwellers that cringe when they start seeing creases in their leather and wet their panties when they step in a puddle

>> No.17652414

i promised an infographic....

>> No.17652442

>>17647701
i was doing that shit wiht my boots until I realized how cringe I was being
they're fucking BOOTS, they're supposed to ge tdirty, and if I don't feel comfortable getting my boots dirty then I shouldn't be wearing boots holy shit
I come by and I see people paying $800 for a pair of boots like come the fuck on

>> No.17652445

>>17652414
this is exactly the kind of failure-to-deliver behavior that characterized /fa/'s decline

>> No.17652450

>>17652442
post boots

>> No.17652504

Does it make sense to use renovator on new boots? You don’t know how long the leather has been sitting

>> No.17652579

>>17652504
do a touch/feel test

>> No.17652601

>>17652445
maybe one day ill skip work and commit to it

>> No.17652610
File: 3.12 MB, 2280x1400, 1678693473729375.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17652610

>> No.17652863
File: 820 KB, 900x900, 1659669600860344.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17652863

>> No.17652951
File: 597 KB, 721x703, hrm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17652951

thinking of getting half height waxi boots from kommando. Am I cringe?
also, tan or cognac brown?

>> No.17653047

>>17652951
Look sex although I don’t like kommando store

>> No.17653097
File: 81 KB, 1000x563, ezgif-2-fe7b2e3d6d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17653097

Got new derbys for summer

>> No.17653137
File: 76 KB, 450x681, A12588E1-9A20-4D3D-A640-9F567E4355A6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17653137

>>17652951
Never really seen a fit with them aside from the spergs on /k/ that all look like shit I heard the freestyle recce boots are good

>> No.17653166

any stylish steel capped boots? want to look /fa/ at work

>> No.17653167 [DELETED] 

>>17645409
>>55191730
sec u re dot giv e well dot org

Please donate here ^^ to help people in developing countries not get sick and die. There is really great research that your donation realy can make a difference.

watchdominion dot org

Please watch this approximately 2 hour free documentary about animal agriculture.

Because you can spend your money and or time better you profligates?!($6?yrv

>> No.17653168

>>17653167
what?

>> No.17653352

What holds the heel to the upper in a 270 degree welt? Glue?

>> No.17653357

>>17653352
nails

>> No.17653361

>>17653357
how many nails ? O_O

>> No.17653368

>>17653352
around half a dozen to a dozen clinch nails

>> No.17653369

>>17653361
however many they want to add
they can nail the upper down then nail the layers of the heel stack and top lift so by the time they're done its probably at least 20 nails

>> No.17653390

>>17646572

How are shoe trees a scam? The shoes i keep trees in are immaculate whilst shoes without have deep creases in them..

>> No.17653402

>>17653390
don't even bother with retards like him
http://imgur.com/a/rpyPh

>> No.17653403

>>17653390
shoes have survived for hundreds of years without trees

>> No.17653409

>>17653402
>shoe molding to your stride is bad

>> No.17653487

>>17653137
damn, those are better looking, shame they don't have wide versions

>> No.17653506

>>17652138
Probably because they don’t masturbate to their 20+ pairs of boots while living in a roach infested trailer in Iowa.

>> No.17653538

I was looking to buy proper boots, but I wear an EU 50, are there any good sillhouettes which won't look like clownshoes?

>> No.17653541

>>17653538
What's your height? Are your feet wide or regular?

>> No.17653547

>>17653541
2,03m, and the widest part of my foot is 11cm, so I would say regular.

>> No.17653554

>>17653547
you have very narrow feet

>> No.17653557

>>17653538
What's that in UK size like 15?
Might be hard to find, Carmina only goes up to 14

Maybe if you ask for an MTO at like Carmina or TLB or something. These are dressy brands.

>> No.17653598

To whom it may concern ebay user ace-dx1 has been selling about 20k worth of Nick’s, White’s, Wesco, Lofrgren in practically new condition.

>> No.17653612

>>17653547
That's definitely a narrow foot.

>> No.17653618

>>17653547
I'm 28.2cm by 11cm and mine's considered wide
At EU50 it's probably narrow

Anyway I'm EU45/UK10.5 on most things

>> No.17653790
File: 1.04 MB, 768x586, 1674937014982705.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17653790

>> No.17653809 [DELETED] 

What's a certified gay people fragrance?

>> No.17653811
File: 120 KB, 850x601, 1672416131955740.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17653811

>just bought white's (and lofgrens)
First non-EU boots im getting (apart from Vib*rgs). How do i cope?

>> No.17653818
File: 367 KB, 743x540, 1684935792855424.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17653818

>coped by buying a pair of yuro boots
enough for this month

>> No.17653827

I ain't buying shit until my Bonafe MTO loafers get here

I already have Bonafe shoes in the exact same last and the fit is good. But these will be my first ever loafers and I am scared.

>> No.17653831

>>17653827
how long have u been waiting? Been waiting 3 months for my latest bonafe MTO, they say 5 months but its never taken this long.

>> No.17653835

>>17653831
About 3 months as well

I guess things might have slowed down when Mr Bonafe died

>> No.17653847

>>17653811
Where did you get this picture of me

>> No.17653905

>>17653790
European handwelt just looks much better than White’s hackjob.

>> No.17654026
File: 1.70 MB, 1899x855, 1666041986053334.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
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>> No.17654063

>>17653487
Their called freestyle recce boots

>> No.17654187
File: 688 KB, 640x853, 1672643549381685.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17654187

>> No.17654203
File: 248 KB, 1080x1440, 1659425357631393.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17654203

>>17654187

>> No.17654264
File: 98 KB, 1000x1250, 1686027479496.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17654264

Whites rambler

>> No.17654266
File: 101 KB, 1000x1250, 1686027500307.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17654266

Whites

>> No.17654280
File: 142 KB, 1000x1250, 1686028760525.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17654280

Here are some bangers

>> No.17654345

who makes boots by request? I need specific leather and colored accents. I would also like an unstructured toebox of that's possible

seems like no makes a service boot in black horween dublin and no one wants to fill it as a customer order :/

>> No.17654347

>>17654345
Have you contacted Whites?

>> No.17654359

>>17654347
I thought I did but apparently I haven't yet

>> No.17654366

>>17654347
I see now the contact is down through their website so I can't see it my sents in my email

I sent another just in case but they will probably just ignore it :[

>> No.17654446

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlBrSkttBws
finally he reviewed some unique boots

>> No.17654687

>>17653811
Where did you get whites from? Can't find anyone selling them in Europe

>> No.17654699

>>17654687
it was talked about in this thread

>> No.17654708

>>17654699
Nerd

>> No.17654710

>>17654345
All the indonesian bootmakers will do that.

>> No.17654897

new
>>17654895
>>17654895

new
>>17654895
>>17654895

new
>>17654895
>>17654895