/fa/ - Fashion

What watch does /wt/ take to bed?

>>15990745
yo momma

>>15990738
>Size:
increased from 39mm to 42mm
>Date window:
changed
>Crystal
changed from acrylic to sapphire

>>15990762
Typeface sucks
Dial too big
SEASTRONGk

I hate how watch companies cannot stop sucking dicks and making reeditions several mm larger in diameter.

>>15990762
That looks like a 50mm watch wtf.

my gf is absolutely loving her new snoopy, i gave her the money but she picked it out herself, god shes adorable and her taste in horology is kino

>>15990762
>42mm
yikes, anything above 40mm is for fatties

>>15990803
Anons girlfriend has thicker wrists than the majority of the malnourished soiko fanbois on here.
/wt/ on suicide watch

>>15990803
>hairband acccessory

i hate niggers and kikes

>>15990762
Nice 3:45 date window, really harmonious with the rest of the dial.

>>15990833
It literally is a hair band you doofus.

Post reissues that aren't total fucking disasters.

>>15990840
Actually has identical proportions to the original.

>>15990738
Post your favorite pieces from Panerai, Zenith and Hublot please.
Want to see what someone can pick up for me from Italy.

>>15990738
My new Grand Seiko spring drive is running 1 second fast per week

I still don't get the point of Grand Seiko where you buy a watch for like $5k and it's still a Seiko, why wouldn't you just buy an Omega or a Breitling or IWC or any other non-Rolex brand (or even an old/undesirable Rolex can be had for that much)?

I thought the point of Grand Seiko was that it's a luxury watch but at a non-luxury price, like 1k or so would make sense.

Now will /wt/ NOT spend half the thread saying the same shit? Let's find out!

>>15990863
>why wouldn't you just buy an Omega or a Breitling or IWC or any other non-Rolex brand (or even an old/undesirable Rolex can be had for that much)?
Because the Grand Seiko has objectively better external finishing.

>>15990863
>IWC
>breitling

1/10 bait

>>15990848
the best Italian brands are San Martin and Pagani Design

>>15990841
I’m going to buy a few of these someday for my work practice. Don’t buy them, nerds. I need them.

>>15990871
kek

>>15990863
I'll be straight up, I just bought a Grand Seiko, I really like that it isn't European (Europeans are cuckolds), I like how the parts aren't outsourced as much as certain European brands, I like how good the finishing is and I like the spring drive technology

Is there a way to get this look for under £100? Quartz preferred and I don’t want a brand on the dial.

>>15990885
Oh and under 40mm. I found a few 43mm but that’s too big for my skinny wrists.

>>15990885
aliexpress

>>15990885
san martin has a quartz flieger for $99 and at 39mm. The lugs are abit long though

check on their webpage or use ali

>>15990738
Sub $500 chronos?
Realized it's not a category I ever looked at.

>>15990907
Or sub $1000 while I'm at it.

>>15990895
>>15990894
Thanks I’ll take a look.

>>15990907
That’s to cheap for a mech chrono.
https://en.yema.com/products/yema-rallygraf-panda-ymhf1572-bm

>>15990907
mech wise your choices are limited to seagulls (theres like a dozen, pic related) or poljot 3133 (a few dozen). You can get vintage seiko chronographs too I think

the rest are all quartz stuff like the seiko mechaquartz, the casioes and the citizen ecodrives
>>15990913
no? mech chronos are as low as $200

>>15990919

>>15990863
> I thought the point of Grand Seiko was that it's a luxury watch but at a non-luxury price
That was their best selling point but GS in the last few years have been marketing themselves heavily, especially in the US, and have increased prices accordingly. Now they are more often than not more expensive than those other brands they are directly competing against.

>>15990793
>re-issue has central seconds hand so they just pretend the date hand is a sub-seconds

>>15990872
Lmao no you don't.

>>15990920
That's brilliant, but I like this.

>>15990936
Lmao why not?

>>15990919
I wouldn’t buy a mech chrono for less than £2000. Even the speedmaster is kinda compromised at its price.

>>15990738
Changed my first strap

>>15990951
>2000 pounds

Cunt you are having a laugh surely

>>15990951
if its good enough for the russians its good enough for anyone else

price =/= quality
the speedmasters have issues even if they cost 4k

>>15990961
Is that a Pagani Design or other knockoff? The rally strap suits it well.

>>15990944
Because you merely want them. Nobody needs a shitty chronograph.

>>15990907
>>15990919
>get a seagull 1963
>get thrown in the gulag for being a commie

>>15990967
>Nobody needs a shitty chronograph.
what if i need to time something

>>15990920
>manuel
¿Qué?

>>15990966
yeah it's a :b:agani, I'm also looking for a racing one in british racing green, kino

>>15991003
>The strap is more expensive than the watch

>>15990974
More like get a spot in the inner party comrade

>>15990926
>That was their best selling point but GS in the last few years have been marketing themselves heavily, especially in the US, and have increased prices accordingly. Now they are more often than not more expensive than those other brands they are directly competing against.
It's ridiculous.

>>15990833
>>>/pol/

>>15991013
I feel like GS are now trying to be a cheaper alternatives to more expensive watches. They now want to be seen as an affordable alternative to patek or lange rather than rolex or omega

>>15991016
>everything I don't like is /pol/

>>15991018
Seiko is one of the most accomplished brands there is. Good for them

>>15991016
I think hairbands as accessories being some Jewish conspiracy is beyond even /pol/ to be honest

do you stylish peeps wear beads with your watch?

>>15991003
120 dollaz for a strap? is it made with the hide of an exitinct speciea and sewn with unicorn hair? wtf? anything over 50 dollar is a huge rip off and a scam, yes even omega with their 150 nato bullshit. even fucking hèrmès it would be a giant scam

>>15991003
Cheapest NATO straps has a rally strap in that colour, not likely to be amazing quality but it is a cheap strap for a cheap watch.

>120 for watch + 80 for mod
am i a meme?

>>15991018
> They now want to be seen as an affordable alternative to patek or lange
They are not even close to that level apart from their very top end $50k+ pieces.

>>15991028
It don't agree. Most I paid was 150 for weird exotic leather and the quality is really like nothing else I've ever bought. This is made to order, mind you.
A strap from Atilla Aszodi is ridicuously expensive, but even the guy that usually makes my straps for a tenth of his prices admits that guy is on another level, an artist and worth the money.

What watch or brand does this webm represent?

>>15991037
I prefer the versions with the rubber strap.

Modding is fun though as long as you don't give it any more importance than it deserves.

>3.5k for Seiko Kojima
What the fuck.

>>15991041
>Pures Leben
>trans. Pure Living
Also, Hublot

>>15991042
i liked the rubber strap, too. but all the ones i saw had the AP insignia which was a huge turnoff.

>>15991040
1. leather is cheap as fuck and indistinguishable from "expensive leather". The only differonce is grain and you can get all typs of grains cheap
2. sewing a strap together and applying dye takes 10 minutes
3. the buckle and tongue are cheap mass produced trash from china, not exactly de bethune level
4. even a patek strap is garbage and not worth more than 50 bucks (excluding the buckle or deployant clasp obviously)

>>15991041
unironically rolex, specifically the submariner.

>>15991027
anal beads

what watch does he wear?

>>15991048
Guess we're waiting for Gen4 then

>>15991013
Why?

Fleiger showed up, very impressed for the price, very thick though, could probably beat someone to death with it.

>>15991057
>he

>>15991057

>>15990919
>You can get vintage seiko chronographs too I think
If you are on any sort of a budget never, ever, EVER buy a vintage chronograph. They are massively more expensive to keep in good working order than vintage three handers.

There are some amazing vintage chronos out there that won't break the bank to buy, but you have to prepared for the running costs.

>>15991057
cheap shit at a ripoff price

>>15990951
>Even the speedmaster is kinda compromised at its price.
I think the new 3861 speedy is less of a compromise at it's price than the previous models were. It now has a free sprung balance and the improved accuracy that comes with it. Omega's external finishing has also noticeably improved in the last several years.

Granted, if you want a vertical clutch and column wheel, the minimum entry point is still a fair bit north of the speedy's price.

>>15991069
i wish the rainbow was just cool fun colors again instead of the 'i have aids' banner

>>15991018
I think JLC's market positioning is their target. They want to be able to occupy that transition area between entry-level luxury watches all the way up to haute horlogerie watches.

>>15991050
>1. leather is cheap as fuck and indistinguishable from "expensive leather". The only differonce is grain and you can get all typs of grains cheap
- t. someone who knows absolutely nothing about leather.

>>15991018
Only a couple of GS watches have hand-finished movements, so your logic really doesn't fly.
Typical GS movement finishing is about the same level as Omega and Rolex movements, but all GS external finishing is absolute god-tier, better than Patek or Lange.
They're pretty much in a class of their own.

>>15991088
>better than Patek or Lange.
turn off your weeb fanboi blinkers and get real. GS are very good but not upto that level
>inb4 same cherry picked macro shots.

>>15991090
GS external finishing is miles better than Patek or Lange.

>>15990762
too big

>>15990803
also too big

>>15991091
then why can't they get bezels and chapter rings to line up consistently?

>>15991101
lol that's definitely not a GS problem.

>>15991091
hell no. dont confuse some sharp edge polishing with finishing.

>>15991088
>Typical GS movement finishing is about the same level as Omega and Rolex movements
Rolex doesnt do any movement finishing at all. Why do you think they dont sell watches with a crystal caseback?

>>15991091
I own all three brands and rate them all highly but I can honestly say you're crazy if you honestly believe that.

>>15991105
>dont confuse some sharp edge polishing with finishing
"Sharp edge polishing" is part of finishing, the fuck are you talking about.
Pic is a Lange handstack up close, doesn't hold a candle to GS.

And that's a very nice dial indeed, but that watch is nearly $200k.

>>15991112
haha yeah, I must be crazy.

>>15991110
Well Rolex movements do have a ton of perlage hidden under the main bridges for instance, but you're probably right.

>>15990963
Quartz ones are far better at a lower price. Why do you want mechanical?

>>15991102
Oh yes it fucking is.

Aside from the top of the top end of GS, they're just made in the same factories as other Seikos with the same slap ass level of quality control.
>muh samurai sword polishing
It's a fucking Sallaz machine. It's not hard to do, especially when you're working with extremely angular cases like GS's.

Pull your head out of your weeb ass.

>>15991131
>Oh yes it fucking is.
Show me a pic of a GS with a misaligned bezel.

>Aside from the top of the top end of GS, they're just made in the same factories as other Seikos with the same slap ass level of quality control.
No, they're not.
GS watches are probably the only Seiko watches made entirely in Japan.

>It's a fucking Sallaz machine. It's not hard to do
Lol then why don't the Swiss?
Watches like the RO are pretty much the only ones that are at the same level as GS, and they start at $20k.

>>15991117
That's the point. It's only part of a whole. Finishing is anglage, hand bevelling, all the different types of polishing not just zaratsu, heated screws, striping, perlage, engraving, sinks, screws, chamfering and so on. Patek and Lange use multiple of those techniques on their dials, GS much fewer. They just have some shiny machine finished edges because that's their speciality.

>>15991076
Edgy...

>>15991140
>Finishing is anglage, hand bevelling, heated screws, striping, perlage, engraving, sinks, screws, chamfering and so on
You're talking about internal finishing, I was specifically talking about external finishing.

>Patek and Lange use multiple of those techniques on their dials
Lol none of the techniques you mentioned are applied to dials.

>They just have some shiny machine finished edges because that's their speciality.
They also have complex geometries and alternating finishes all perfectly symmetrical and with perfectly defined borders.

>>15991129
because quartz suck dick

>>15991148
We get it. Nipon Banzai!

>>15991154
me:
>GS external finishing is absolute top level

you:
>no, GS movement finishing is not absolute top level

morning wt, i see GS anon is back at it again

>>15991165
Seems that way. Impossible to have a rational discussion with them.

>>15991168
>get btfo purely on logic and photographic evidence
>"can't have a rational discussion"

Really not sure what you're trying to cope with.
I don't even like 99% of GS designs, but the facts are the facts.

>>15991121
you cant really expect them to not outsource their hands in a 100k watch

>>15991073
It looks great on paper, but I'm slightly concerned over sharp edges on case rumors.
Omega is generally improving in quality, but seems like they still have some fuck ups here and there.

>>15991174
lel

Srsly PP really needs to stop up their hands game. They're a joke at this point.
Pic is a $15k watch.

>>15991178
why tf did it give me a thumbnail.

Patek finishing is so bad. How can they ever hope to compete with GS.

>>15991062
Based. You replacing the shitty strap?

>>15991181
Patek is better done overall, it's not just hands.

>>15991185
In what way?

>>15991183
ikr

>>15991184
Yes, probably gonna toss a leather strap I have laying around on it for now.

>>15991189
>>15991183
Try looking at the hand edges for instance.

Patek hands are stamped and the edges are left entirely raw.

>>15991193
You can't see it outside of macro shots. Patek is about handmade craftsmanship and heritage, and people are willing to pay for that because it's much more valuable than hand finishing you can't even see.

>>15991193
You found an image with a PP hand that isn't microscopically perfect. Well done. A Google Image search can find a thousand others that are. You're autism should be praised.

>>15991194
>You can't see it outside of macro shots
You can't see the underside of bridges either, but I wouldn't pay HH prices for a movement that doesn't finish the parts of the movement you can't see.

And you can see that raw edge when sunlight hits it for instance.

>>15991196
>You found an image with a PP hand that isn't microscopically perfect. Well done.
All their hands are like that.

>A Google Image search can find a thousand others that are.
Only because the hand edges aren't lit.

>>15991117
>doesn't hold a candle to GS
To one chery picked GS which is being poseted again and again here?
Can you please provide a macro shots of a few dozens of GS and Lange/Pateks dials so it would be at least somewhat statistically justified reprisentation?
Otherwise the GS shilling on this particular board is getting out of control.

>>15991199
>To one chery picked GS which is being poseted again and again here?

What the fuck are you talking about, schizo. All GS dials are finished the same.

>>15991062
tfw /csg/ is roasting the fleiger
>>>/g/80395722

I always used to like minimalist GS or Omega stuff but recently I have become obsessed with this thing, even though I realize that it's an opulent hideous creature. What's wrong with me?

>>15991210
Lol this is a transitional form between the old sharp Daytona indices and the current molten blob indices.

>>15991199
This.

As I said earlier >>15991112 I own several watches from all 3 threes and this GS fan is deluded. GS are top tier but Patek and Lange are unarguably better.

>>15991214
>this GS fan is deluded
... said cuckanon, ignoring direct photographic evidence.

>>15991215
> owns actual watches
> you are ignoring the evidence
that made me chuckle.

>>15991221
Post macro pics of the hand edges, well lit of course.

>>15991223
Even if I did have a macro lens why would I do that? I can literally eyeball the watches in my hand and see the difference. As far as I can tell you have an irrational hatred for anything not GS. Personally I can appreciate any watch on its own merit.

>>15991223
Macro pics don't matter, nobody takes macro pics of their watch in real life. It's all about just looking at the watch and Pateks look better than any Grand Seiko

>>15991228
pateks literally look like stuffy grandpa watches

>>15991227
>why would I do that?
Because it would show Patek having rough edges and GS having polished edges.

>As far as I can tell you have an irrational hatred for anything not GS.
That's just because you're a retard.

>Personally I can appreciate any watch on its own merit.
So can I.

>>15991228
>Macro pics don't matter, nobody takes macro pics of their watch in real life
There's no excuse for those rough hand edges at those prices.
You can see the roughness when sunlight hits it, and there's a reason high horology brands also finish the parts of the movement you cannot see.

>>15990088
https://youtu.be/tOEkOwo1ySw

>>15991229
Because Pateks are timeless

Is PP the new rolex of these threads?

>>15991205
Doesn't /csg/ roast literally anything that's more expensive than $10 since it's a thread for bored people to waste their money buying cheap shit that they don't need?

>>15991228
Agreed. Classic designs that never go out of fashion and despite what a few haters say on /wt/ finished to the highest quality.

need help frens.. looking for
>~$1000
>anything except a diver
>automatic or hand wound
>bronze case, acrylic crystal
>strap doesn't matter but I will probably put it on leather
><=40mm

>>15991243
>finished to the highest quality.
No.
Their hands are stamped, the tops are buffed, and the edges are left raw.

I have a masochistic desire to get this bigass ugly diver and wear it. I can get this for cheap too, convince me not to do it bruhs

>>15991246
That's how they've always done it and nobody has complained before you.

>>15991246
Post your collection.

>>15991252
lmao I'm not even "complaining", just pointing out that GS has better external finishing.

>>15991255
how many Grand Seiko do you own?

>>15991241
Yes

>>15991258
>>15991253
I'm not about to identify myself after this retarded flame war with you retards.

>>15991262
So that would be none.

>>15991237
The r*lex ambassadors will never stop shilling itt.

>>15991262
Post your Grand Seiko macro shot with a timestamp

>>15991265
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

>>15991262
What do you mean "identify," friend? All you have to do is post your watch. Your exquisitely finished Grand Seiko, which you have, and enjoy, as you have observed its superlative finishing above that of even Swiss HH brands. Your Grand Seiko of which there are many like it, thus making exact identification of you impossible as it could be any of any number of Grand Seiko watches owned by many connoisseurs. All with the highest levels of premium finishing on the hands and dials, of course. Surely you can show off this watch, which you own, and are proud of owning?

>>15991262
> won't post a watch because it will "identity myself"
fucking kek. just admit don't own any because you made it obvious.

>>15991205
its your own fault for not explaining whats in the watch

>>15991268
>>15991265
>>15991280
>>15991281

It's really not that hard.
GS has better external finishing than Patek or Lange.
The hands, indices, cases, ... for instance are finished to a higher standard.

No need to get this butthurt about it.

>>15991285
Nobody actually cares about dial finishing, the movement is what is important and Patek makes better movements that are better finished

>>15991289
>Nobody actually cares about dial finishing

If you don't care, that's fine.
The fact remains the same regardless.

>>15991285
> can't post his own
> reverts back to posting macro shots of the web
that doesn't win the argument u spaz. it simply makes you and GS look worse

>>15991292
>that doesn't win the argument u spaz
It literally does.

>>15991291
Post your Grand Seiko

>>15991289
>Nobody actually cares about dial finishing
???
do you look at the movement or the dial more?
who gives a flying fuck about movement finishing? its just a small bonus
rolex doesnt even have display windows for this reason

>>15991294
>get btfo
>"p-post yours"

>>15991293

>>15990302
>How do I Lord Matic
Simple. Don't buy unless they state the date quickset works. There are plenty around that still work, and a competent seller will mention it. As for the appearance, google the model number and compare. See that the dial text is right, the hands are correct for the model, and the lines on the case are sharp and flat surfaces flat, instead of a shiny rounded blob.
The prices on ebay are mostly ridiculous. Try Yahoo auctions.

>>15991297
My owning or not owning a watch doesn't change reality.

This PP vs GS thing is an absolute nonversation, like apples and oranges. GS has to polish the edges of hands because their niche is autistic people while PP can charge way more and polish less because Cardi B wears nautilii.

>>15991300
>GS has to polish the edges of hands because their niche is autistic people
You do realize hand finishing movements takes a lot more autism, right?

>>15991300
I honestly wonder how many of these celebs can even tell analogue time.

>>15991299
> My owning or not owning a watch doesn't change reality.
Actually it does. The opinion of someone who owns the watch is always going to be more valid and important than
someone who doesn't. Such as >>15991214. Anon even says GS are good but you seem to want everyone to think GS are the best brand ever in the history of watch making.

>>15991300
Imaging destroying such a great watch and it's resale value.

>>15991300
el globina

>>15991304
kek

>>15991305
>The opinion of someone who owns the watch is always going to be more valid and important than someone who doesn't.

Except this isn't a matter of opinion.
You can see for yourself from hundreds of examples that GS has better external finishing than Patek.

One guy who obviously never actually took a close look at the hand edges of his watch doesn't change that in the slightest.

>>15991319
Post yours, then

>>15991320
t. can't cope

>>15991307
>It's not about money, it's about sending a message. Everything burns!

>>15990738
>>15990762
>>15990834
>Dial is flat white paint instead of nice brushed silver
>Crown protruding like crazy, ugly gear machining instead of classic coin edge knurling
>Polished needle markers, not glorious lume
>Date window is horribly square shaped inside a wedge frame while the original has all the character of a wedged day window
>Don't get me started on the gaudy size
Have I missed anything?
All of these look more like cost cutting measures than stylistic choices too, which makes it all the more unapealing
>>15990840
>>15990841
>>15990920
That's a looker!

GS weeb shills arguing about academic points of "external finishing" that you can't see without a literal microscopic instrument is killing /wt/. It's literally the same arguments every single day. Stop it.

And, by the way, you're not helping your case against GS being the ultimate cope brand

>>15991326
>academic points of "external finishing"
lmao
By that logic the difference between a Seiko 5 movement finishing and a Lange chrono finishing is also "academic".
Take your meds.

>>15991323
That might actually be an example of an after-market mod that increases a watches value. It's a very special one off piece done to a superlative level by one of the best in the business.

ok guys ive asked this like 4 threads ago but i'll ask it again (for the last time)

what <$500-$800 non-overly-dressy + wristlet friendly watch should i buy for my BF?
hes a total normie, not a watch person at all but very vaguely interested in mechanicals.
hes kinda dorky, wears things like polo tees, chinoes and trainers.
his hobby is buses (transportation nerd).

recommendations so far:
Seiko SNKL41
Citizen BU2070-12L
Certina DS4

>>15991329
The movement matters, dial and hand finishing doesn't. You can't even see things at the macro level.

>>15991335
>The movement matters, dial and hand finishing doesn't.

Now you're just plain being retarded.

>>15991338
The movement is the soul of the watch and PP has been making and finishing movements to the highest standard for centuries. Seiko just polishes hands more, big deal. You don't even see it and extra polishing is easy, even microbrands could do it.

>>15991335
>You can't even see things at the macro level.
Sure you can.
What you can't see is 75% of a typical movement's finishing since it's hidden behind plates.

>>15991329
You can clearly see the difference between a Seiko 5 movement and a Lange movement with the naked eye, idiot

>>15991323
>>15991307
>>15991300
>that vaguely circular-but-not-quite misshapen fat bloated bezel

this watch is so ugly, just like the overseas, maybe slightly less
what do people see in these?

>>15991340
>the exterior of a watch doesn't matter

This is just delicious cope.

>>15991334
Honestly you aren't going to get a good mechanical watch for that price. You'd probably be better just getting a very nice looking watch and not concern yourself with the internals.

>>15991342
Not really.
The beveling is so fine you pretty much need to put your nose to the glass to see that it's polished.

But a better comparison would probably be one of those chink chronos.
Even with a loupe, a laymen probably wouldn't be able to tell which is more expensive unless you told them what to look for.

>>15991343
the story of the nautilus is that integrated bracelet steel sports watches were starting to become a trend and patek wanted to jump in and have a contemporary, simple beater watch for their rich as shit customers who want to wear a slightly less expensive and delicate watch when they're fucking around on their yacht. then hypebeast faggots started buying it saying "OMG, THIS IS SO CHEAP COMPARED TO OTHER PATEKS, AND IT SAYS PATEK ON IT, HOLY SHIIIIT THE VALUE" which made other hypebeast faggots pile on, lowered availability, and jacked up price bigly.

>>15991347
No, you can. You can easily tell that that movement in your pic is cheap as shit, for example. Look at the clearly painted screws, the shitty faux cotes de geneve, the lack of anglage, etc.
>Even with a loupe, a laymen
laymen don't know shit about watches; the discussion obviously has nothing to do with laymen

>>15991352
>Look at the clearly painted screws, the shitty faux cotes de geneve, the lack of anglage, etc.

If you can see that, then you can clearly see that GS has better case finish and better polished hands and indices than Patek.

>>15990926
>>15991013
Is it? They are selling more. Watches are a luxury item - often the more expensive they are the better they sell. Seiko wasn't going to survive make good cheap watches because nobody really need a watch anymore.

>>15991305
>opinion

>>15991355
>hurr durr if I lick the boot enough I'll be the master soon

>>15991353
Nobody cares, Patek has better designs which is what matters, not high quality finishing. You're paying for heritage, attention to detail, and artisan craftsmanship not some autistic polishing.

>>15991359
>Nobody cares
If you personally don't care, then good for you.

>high quality finishing doesn't matter
What the fuck are you doing, anon.

>>15991359
>, Patek has better designs
many ugly pateks out there

>>15991362
It looks better in person >>15991214

>>15991347
Probably bait but here's a fresh macro and a (you)

>>15991359
>You're paying for heritage, attention to detail, and artisan craftsmanship not some autistic polishing.
The "autistic polishing" is a large part of the attention to detail and artisan craftsmanship.
Black polishing and bevel polishing are two of THE most important aspects of a high horology finish.

You're not well in the head lmao.

>>15991367
>cut numerals

>>15991369
Your point?

>>15991373
PP finishes the movement, which is the most important part. That's why they have the Geneva Seal. GS finishes things nobody cares about which only show up on macro shots.

>>15991353
You can't see the finer details of the polishing of the hands and indices with the naked eye. Truly, you cannot. I'm not going to argue with you about the case finishing because yes, it's obvious that GS uses different techniques than Patek, AP, etc. and reportedly these techniques take more training and expertise to execute. I'm not a metal finisher so I don't know first hand.

I think a lot of people conflate design with finishing, honestly, when the two are related but different.

>>15991376
>PP finishes the movement, which is the most important part.
But you just said "autistic polishing" isn't what you pay for.

>>15991377
>You can't see the finer details of the polishing of the hands and indices with the naked eye.
Except of course you can.

See >>15991357
you can tell from a mile away that the Patek hands and indices are flat and roughly buffed, while the GS hands and indices are three dimensional and diamond-like.

>>15991345
>you aren't going to get a good mechanical watch for that price.
while quartz would probably be better for him, a mech doesnt have to be like luxury level though. NH35 or something workhorsey is good enough

>>15991131
>they're just made in the same factories as other Seiko
No, they aren't. Most Grand Seiko models are made in two completely separate manufacturing and assembly chains than the mid-range manufacturing and assemble process that make the mid-range Seiko divers with the alignment issues.

Also the alignment issues are a product of Seiko limiting the amount of QC on their lower end watches and don't have anything to do with Seiko's capacity to QC. Seiko budgets less for QC on $500 watches than $5,000 watches, unsurprisingly.

>It's a fucking Sallaz machine. It's not hard to do
Actually, it is very difficult to do well because even small variations in angle or pressure on separate passes can and will produce optically obvious distortion. Even with jigs it's still work they requires very steady hands.

Also this ignores the word GS does polishing and brushing hands and indices, which can't be done on a sallaz machine in the first place.

>>15991140
You're talking about movement finishing, meanwhile the conversation is about external finishing.

The unfortunate reality is that many high horology watchmakers don't put the level of effort into their handsetst that they should, even where those HH companies do a good to great job with external finishing otherwise. Lange, for instance, does a great job with external finishing on their watches overall, but their hands are still not quite up the standards of their cases, dials, and indices.

>>15991348
This is sorta true but it's more like "AP designed the Royal Oak as a purely cynical power move to sway the industry toward valuing stainless steel sports watches more highly than precious metal dress watches by artificially inflating the price of steel," it actually worked because they rightly figured out that rich people care more about flexing on poors than "value," Patek joined the hype train, and then eventually the watches were discovered by trust fund hypebeast babies and rappers

>>15991382
Then that is your answer then.

>>15991375
Notice the absence of perlage! Educating, that's all.

>>15991380
>you can tell from a mile away that the Patek hands and indices are flat and roughly buffed
8/10 bait man, you almost got me. I like it

>>15991385
> AP designed the Royal Oak as a purely cynical power move to sway the industry
More like Genta designed the watch over lunch with the head of AP because he asked him to. Neither had any idea what it would become.

>>15991387
I have no idea what your point is.

>>15991307
damn this watch is so BRAVE

>>15991391
Compare those indices, amigo.
The creases on that Patek's indices are soft and ill-defined, while the GS indices are cut like diamonds (on top of having much more intricate geometry).

>>15991385
AP didn't design the RO as a power move, that watch was reviled, it was like the Homer car from The Simpsons. It only became popular for ironic value years later. Like ten fucking years later.

>the GS autist ruins another thread by arguing over macro shots of hands for 150 posts
Every day I’m more and more convinced GS is the ultimate cope brand.

>>15991398
More like
>Swisscucks can't deal with the simple fact that GS is objectively better finished on the outside

And I love Swiss watches.

>>15991396
You realize the photo you're using to make your point is LITERALLY A SHOT TAKEN WITH A HIGH POWERED MACRO LENS AT A PERSPECTIVE THAT THE HUMAN EYE CANNOT SEE UNAIDED

>>15991387
>m-muh perlage

>$150 chinese ETA clone:

>>15991401
The flatness and softness of those hands and indices are extremely apparent at arm's length.

>>15991402
>chinese
That movement is obviously Swiss made

>>15991405
Prove it

>>15991405
Post your Grand Seiko, in a photo taken at arm's length

>>15991214
I think he has a point about handsets, in particular, but I think he goes too far in universalizing the argument to external finishing as a whole.

>>15991228
>The objective, observable evidence doesn't matter, only subjective opinions matter
That's not a very good argument.

>>15991285
Stop universalizing a valid point about handsets to external finishing as a whole. Many HH brands to excellent work on cases, bracelets, dials and indices.

>>15991406
>thinking anything cheaper than $2000 can truly be made in europe

>"Calibre ST2100 is an automatic watch movement produced by Sea-Gull in China. It is very similar to the ETA 2824-2 and is likely used as an ebauche by Valanvron and STP for their Swiss Made movements."
https://www.watch-wiki.net/index.php?title=ST2100

literally dropshipped from seagull LMAO

>>15991162
Kek the dudes a retard

>>15991407
Try holding them side by side irl when you get the chance.

>>15991410
>Stop universalizing a valid point about handsets to external finishing as a whole. Many HH brands to excellent work on cases, bracelets, dials and indices
When did I say "all HH brands"?

>>15991178
>>15991181
Bros c'mon you're expecting WAAYY too much from a 15k watch

>>15991393
I posted a 7s26 because this clown >>15991347 doesn't seem to know how they are finished differently from a Lange.

List of known /wt/ personalities:
>Explorerfag
>GS macro photo autist
>Nomos+omega jerk-off
>"Daytona indices are blobs" faggot
>Casio sliderule "don't tread on me" retard
>"Couldn't afford a rolex?" monkey

Am I missing anyone?

What we learned in this thread:

Patek = cringe

GS = based

>>15991419
The point was fine finishing is not "academic".
If you can notice fine movement finishing, you can notice fine external finishing.

The fact that you're saying the difference is obvious helps prove my point.

>>15991421
I would bet half of these people are the same person.

>>15991421
You can add
>"external finishing doesn't matter" copefag
to that list.

>>15991421
smell-your-watch-for-me anon

>>15991335
This is why rolex is shit.

>>15991417
Even about Patek specifically, their case, dial, indices and bracelet finishing are very good. It's mainly the handsets that aren't up to the same standard.

That said I do think Lange's external finishing is a noticeable cut above Patek's.

https://youtu.be/89KKsEP7hRE
another iwc shill vid

>>15991424
Some finishing is obvious, some requires a microscope to see and is thus academic. Is that so hard for your autistic brain to comprehend?

>>15991358
I dont give a fuck man. I'm not buying this shit. Its reality tho. No money in poorfag watches. That's why it working. Sorry you feel left out.

Allegedly, Casio Oceanus watches are (partly) made in the same factory as GS. Is this true? If so, why isn’t everyone buying them?

>>15991428
No

>>15991431
>Even about Patek specifically, their case, dial, indices and bracelet finishing are very good. It's mainly the handsets that aren't up to the same standard.
Patek cases and bracelets tend to be finished very simply.
Often their cases and bracelets are just 100% polished against a huge buffing wheel.

>>15991434
I'm not the guy you were arguing with, but I definitely do notice differences in external finishing quality even from an arm's length away, and I would notice stamped hands with raw edges, even without a macro lens, because it becomes obvious to the naked eye when light hits the dial at a certain angle

That said, I'm not endorsing his overall argument even if I agree that HH handsets need to be improved.

>>15991434
External finishing is a lot more visible and apparent than movement finishing lol.

>>15991410
Almost none of the Swiss brands produce their own hands because it's surprising hard, costly and technical. Seiko on the other hand produce their own hands in-house in a dedicated facility for Seiko, GS & Credor. They put a lot of effort into them. Honestly though it's just a cosmetic difference so the GS sperg is shouting into an empty room.

>>15991412
Holy fuck lmao

>>15991433
>here is your $11,000 watch, bro

IWC's finishing is truly dogshit

>>15991448
Not the fine details on the undersides of hands

>>15991449
>Honestly though it's just a cosmetic difference
So is high horology movement finishing lmao.

>>15991454
1) nobody mentioned the undersides
2) the undersides of movement bridges and parts are finished in actual HH watches even though you can't see them
3) you can often see the undersides of hands reflected in the other hand

>>15991449
Noting again, I'm not the guy shittalking HH external finishing overall.

I'm aware, but I'm autistic enough for this to legitimately bug me about HH brands. If I'm buying an HH watch I should be able to look at every part of the watch and movement through a loupe and be satisfied with what I see. This is an area where HH brands need to step it up IMHO.

>>15991424
You contradicted >>15991342 which is absurd. I didn't need a loupe or a macro lens to see that there's no ornery on the seiko movement.

>>15991464
I'll never understand why Patek finishes all those parts of the movement you can't even see, but then just leaves the hands raw at the edges.

>>15991451
>What does Made in really mean? Let me begin by saying that the Made In Label has different meanings in different countries, some countries take the made in label quite seriously, others… not so much.

>Research shows that the general public will pay anywhere from 20 to a whopping 100 percent more for the exact same watch just by adding those those two words on the dial SWISS – MADE. Two very expensive words. So, it’s not difficult to see why a watchmaker would be more than happy to add that on his dial whenever possible.

>To begin, the use of Swiss made for watches is regulated and written down in the relatively short “Swiss Made Ordinance”. When you hear people talking about the “60% Rule” – this is what they’re talking about. There’s a little bit more to it than you might think.

>The ordinance essentially states that a watch may be considered a Swiss watch if 5 key criteria are met:

>>15991469
"By that logic".

>>15991473
>First, the technical development should have taken place in Switzerland; This means that basically the Research and development, technical drawings and the prototyping needs to take place in Switzerland
>Secondly, the actual movement should be Swiss. Essentially It means that technical development, assembly and inspection of the movement must take place in Switzerland.
>The third point is that a movement needs to be encased in Switzerland.
>Adding to the Swissness of your watch, the fourth key point is that the inspection must take place in Switzerland.

>And now, finally, we get to the juicy part of the story. The fifth and final point: at least 60 percent of the manufacturing costs should be generated in Switzerland.
>Manufacturing costs can be split up in four groups.

-Research and development costs (R&D costs)
-Direct material costs (raw material costs and process costs)
-Indirect material costs (packaging, storage)
-Production costs (which includes the Costs of quality assurance and certification, and Cost of third party services and licences relating to a product)

>Surely, it doesn’t take a detective to figure out that there is a lot of room to play with this 60 percent value. A lot of what makes up a watch can effectively be made in low cost countries, while perfectly keeping 60 percent of value at a Swiss Made level especially when looking at pricing in licenses, royalties, Research, Development, and other services.

The absolute state of /wt/
>GS weebs licking the shit from the assholes of their brand overlords
>Constant arguing about trinity steel sports watches that no one in the thread will ever own
>Rolex false scarcity apologists
>Samefagging
>Quartzfaggots successfully baiting "muh mechanical soul" autists
>Casio obsessives
I'm outta here you fucking degenerates

>>15991194
>>15991326
>>15991377
>>15991335
>>15991376
>>15991398
>>15991401
>>15991421

>hurrr you can't see GS dial detail with the naked eye, only in macro shots

Not only is this hilariously wrong, but you can't see much of the movement AT ALL yet it still matters enough for high horology watchmakers (Patek included) to finish all the hidden parts.
You people are delusional cucks.

>>15991473
>>15991478
You need to understand that the only thing anyone REALLY cares about with watches is the snobbery. "Swiss Made" + high prices = snobbery cred. "Value" brands from Japan, i.e. Grand Seiko = no snobbery cred, only autistic "muh macro shots" cred.

This is the true reason why GS is a pure cope brand.

>>15991478
You're missing the core of the "Swiss Made" scam with that list:

If a company buys an ETA or Sellita ebauche, the cost of that ebauche is deemed to be 100% Swiss for the purposes of meeting the 60% requirement. This is true even though for ETA and Sellita themselves to be able to sell the movements as "Swiss Made" they only need to produce 60% of the movement's value in Switzerland themselves. Same goes for all other outsourced "Swiss Made" parts. This way, you can turn a watch where far less than half the real value added in the production chain is Swiss, into a "Swiss Made" watch.

That's how all the sub $3,500 "Swiss Made" watches are made, more or less.

>>15991490
And why they're getting more expensive.
>>15991478
So how can they get away with calling the stp a swiss movement if it's made in china? Like wtf you'd think that they'd at least make the movement there. Fuck man I'm never buying a sw*ss watch what a joke

>>15991457
True but one method isn't inherently better than the other. Zaratsu polishing isn't some mythic skill that takes decades of training. It's hold some metal against a spinning wheel. It actually takes less manual labour that what the Swiss typically use.

>>15991498
Then why can't Patek finish their hands to the same standard if it's so easy?

>>15991490
Snobbery is a part of it, but it's not as important as you think.
Even the most snobbish watches by the most snobbish brand (Rolex) only fetch a few ten thousand USD at peak hype.

Meanwhile completely unknown watchmakers happily fetch hundreds of thousands of USD for their handmade shit.
See pic for example.

Craftsmanship and finish is still by far the absolute biggest factor in a watch's price level.

>>15991470
Because patek doesnt make the hands themselves, they unironically buy them for 5 bucks from china or eastern europe

>>15991498
I don't care about method, only about result.
And the difference in external finish is obvious.

>actually takes less manual labour that what the Swiss typically use.
That's just not true.
Like this anon said: >>15991383
mastering the sallaz technique is actually a craft entirely unto its own.

What the minimum $$ to spend to get a mechanical watch worth the price ? 1k ?

>>15991452
I think thats something everybody in wt will agree on: IWC and Panerai are the biggest scam brands around

>>15991502
Zaratsu was a method invented by the Swiss first, albeit under a different name, but it didn't take off. iirc it was because it did look so different and didn't fit their aesthetic.

>>15991493
>If a company buys an ETA or Sellita ebauche, the cost of that ebauche is deemed to be 100% Swiss for the purposes of meeting the 60% requirement. This is true even though for ETA and Sellita themselves to be able to sell the movements as "Swiss Made" they only need to produce 60% of the movement's value in Switzerland themselves. Same goes for all other outsourced "Swiss Made" parts. This way, you can turn a watch where far less than half the real value added in the production chain is Swiss, into a "Swiss Made" watch.

what the flying fuck? lmao

so it can be 60% of 60% = it only needs 36% of "swiss value"?

>>15991509
According to /wt/ 100k

>>15991503
Bro... I'm not disagreeing with you, but why do you think people are buying shit like this? Some buy it because they live watches and the craftmanship and what have you and others buyit because you have to outdo the schmuck with a patek or rolex.

>>15991503
Nah, having a watch made by a single watchmaker that costs hundreds of thousands gets you a shit ton of snobbery points

It's hard to truly nail down the extent to which craftsmanship/finish plays into pricing when you're comparing watches made by a very small team of people or even a single person vs. watches made by brands that have industrialized their processes. I mean, the reality is you will always pay more for watches made in fewer numbers by fewer people because that's just how basic economics work

>>15991509
Probably around $1k for some well regulated ETA movements, e.g. Longines. But for the cheapest legitimately good mechanical movement worth the money you are talking Nomos.

>>15991512
The Swiss do use it in the RO for instance.

Most of the time HH watchmakers just can't be bothered.
Like Patek shitting out full-bracelet watches that look like they fell down a buffing wheel tree (see pic).

>>15991498
>Zaratsu polishing isn't some mythic skill that takes decades of training. It's hold some metal against a spinning wheel. It actually takes less manual labour that what the Swiss typically use.

That's incorrect. Most Swiss mass production watchmakers use high speed buffing wheels, which are fast and require very little skill to use, but which have the telltale downside of rounding over everything they polish.

Higher end Swiss watchmakers (Rolex, Omega these days, Zenith) use lapidary polishing machines, which are more time consuming and skill intensive to use but which create much less rounding over of polished surfaces and edges.

Sallaz machines are even more skill intensive to use because small variations in pressure and angle on multiple passes will create optically obvious distortion in the polished surface because it would be perfectly flat otherwise.

>>15991481
This shit is more fun than WUS

>>15991509
a nh35 is only $40 on ebay and its worth every penny.

>>15991517
>>15991518
Yes, the finishing also comes with snobbery; but the price level is determined largely by the actual work it takes to make those watches.

>>15991526
And not just the amount of work but the fact that it's done by one person vs. an assembly line of people who do the same repetitive task dozens of times every day

>>15991526
>the price level is determined largely by the actual work it takes to make those watches
A Nautilus takes 5 times as much work as an Overseas?

>>15991516
Lol yeah that's why I don't take everything on /wt/ seriously

>>15991519
Thanks anon I kinda forgot about Longines because I was mostly looking at Seiko in that price range

>>15991524
I'd like to buy my first watch in store but I'll definitely take a look at ebay for other watches

After being chinked with a cheap 'tritium' watch that just had regular lume in tubes, I've ordered this Carnival tritium tube field watch.
It's got a solid link bracelet, Swiss quartz movement and sapphire crystal.

>>15991539
Lume in tubes is probably better than tritium

>>15991533
Yeah, handmade watches are about selling the story as much as the product itself (did you know a single screw costs 200 Swiss Francs in labor to make???).
But the story has to be true.

>>15991535
A Nautilus used to be priced around the same level as an Overseas.
Then it got hyped and it went for 3x as much.
Right now it's at maximum turbo overhype due to being discontinued, so it's up in the stratosphere.

Still, it started at $20-30k to begin with, proving my point.

>>15991526
No. Price is determined by what people will pay for it and what the producer will sell it for. Snobbery is largely why they pay for it and craftmanship is what the seller wants money for. Ergo, snobbery is equal to craftmanship when determining proce

>>15991541
Maybe but I haven't got a tritium watch yet, so I wanted to add one to my collection.

>>15991509
Anything worse than the ETA 2824 is not worth bothering with.
The Seiko 6R would be a contender, but the regulation/variance on it is a joke out of the box. Plus it has a worse beatrate. I don't have any experience with Miyota movements but at least they have the same beat rate.

>>15991539
make sure it does actually have the tritium

i think carnival ran out of those tritium models a while ago(because everyone caught onto how good of a deal it was), and they had to make new SKUs without the tritium

maybe they restocked it

>>15991544
>No. Price is determined by what people will pay for it and what the producer will sell it for.
Then why does a Rolex daytona (one of the most hyped watches in the world) sell for ~$30k new in the grey market, but that Ferdinand Berthoud (a brand absolutely nobody ever heard of) sells for ten times that?

>>15991542
A Sub takes twice as much work as a Planet Ocean?

>>15991548
>>15991539
anyway, if it doesnt have the tritium you can claim refund and aliexpress will always side with you.
an anon here had bought one when he was in china and it was definitely tritium

>>15991551
Lmao what are you trying to say? That whatever the fuck is less snobbery points than rolex because normies havent heard of it? Kek

>>15991555
Hype and brand renown does create fluctuation; but a Sub at maximum hype price still costs less than a tenth of that Ferdinand Berthoud, which may very well be one of the absolute least hyped watch brands in existence.

>>15991562
I'm saying that price level has a LOT more to do with actual finishing and craftsmanship than with brand hype.

>>15991539
Get on the Ball.

>>15991566
Ya nobody said snobbery is just brand hype man.

>>15991569
The cost of skilled man hours aren't really related to snobbery.

>>15991570
No, the ability to brag about it is.

NEW Teddy! Get in here bros!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEmKU-3HzrY

>>15991573
Yes, you get to brag about how it takes two hours for a guy to finish a single screw in your handmade watch.
After you pay for the combined man hours.

>>15991578
how is this guy a wristlet? he doesn't look like a manlet.

>>15991583
The guy doesn't exactly exude high test levels.

>>15991579
That's what they charge you for, but that's why you pay for it. You are talking about why the watchmaker charges what he does for a watch. I am talking about why people are willing to pay it.

>>15991548
It seems to have tritium from the reviews.
>>15991567
How much is the Ball? The Carnival was £73.

>>15991590
>>15991579
On the one hand, it legitimately does cost a lot to have a single person make a watch.

On the other hand, that person wouldn’t make watches if he couldn’t sell them.

So it’s a symbiotic relationship

is it cheaper to buy the aqua terra on a rubber strap and then buy an oem bracelet afterwards?
i read that buying the oem rubber strap separately costs more, is it true?

>>15991608
Yes

i honestly dont care much for the "hand crafted" aspect of things. you'll only get jerked off by other watch enthusiasts. if i could get a mass-produced watch for 5k that has close-enough finishing compared to a hand-made 20k watch, that sounds like a better value to me.

>>15991611
no retard
NO
ALWAYS buy the bracelet because the bracelet separately is hundreds of dollars whilst the rubber strap will be, at most, $150

>>15991614
but i like the rubber strap more.

>>15991583
He looks like an overgrown 6'3 10 year old

>>15991614
https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/cqrbkz/_/ewylmhy

Got this a couple months ago on the metal strap, but really love the look of the rubber strap. Conventional wisdom typically advises buying on the metal and swapping to alternate materials later for less money. This is not the case so much with this strap. All together, with the metal inserts and the deployant is around $700. Yes, the steel bracelet is more expensive, but not by much. So if you like the look of the rubber strap on this, you save $100 or so on the front end buying the rubber over the steel. For me, I think it's easier to justify $800 for a steel band in my head than $700 for rubber.

So with this, I got the rubber strap, but bought a Christopher Ward Bader deployant that was 1/4 the price and came with a really good quality leather band.

Oh! And this rubber strap is a BITCH to put on. I spent hours trying to get it and even knicked the underside of the case with a pusher tool when it finally broke from overuse (its not bad, but annoying). Turns out, there's different spring bars for this strap, 1.6 diameter, not the 1.9 or whatever comes with the steel bracelet.

>>15991619
You must pay for both and keep the investment strap in a safe.

>>15991625
>$700 for a rubber strap
what the fuck

>>15991613
Agreed. This is why I think Omega represents the best proposition in watches.

NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD

>>15991637

>>15990840
>Mineral crystal

>>15991681
Yeah, that's probably it's only flaw, especially for the price. But then I did specify TOTAL disasters.

>>15991334
How the fuck is transportation a hobby?

Anyway the answer is always Hamilton Khaki Field

>>15991590
>>15991608
Absolutely.
The point was simply that the cost of a watch has a lot more to do with the actual cost of skilled labor (handmade watches) than with empty hype (Rolex).
The former can easily cost hundreds of thousands, while the latter costs a few ten thousand even with all that hype.

>>15991205
That is one guy samefaging

>>15991069
Lol they even added the trans flag to the regular rainbow.

>>15991334
Maybe a Mondaine Stop2Go? It's not buses but it is train related.

>>15991076
this

>>15991251
I was just thinking, I wonder what the most gaudy diver is? Instant Invicta or diesel

>>15991939
I'd say invicta, just because diesel shitters are only 3 bar

>>15991421
>Casio sliderule
Unsure if that is me, pretty sure I only posted a Vostok on a sliderule.

i like this, might get it next week. first watch