/fa/ - Fashion

>>13644235
idk man I dont get it
Every time I go to big cities I see people like this and god I can't imagine what its like living your entire life as a larp. I guess these people really have no personality at all so they have no problem making one from the ground up. It seems like a fucking joke

>>13644240
I fucking love trad shit but I can't stand this look either. The people are ok for the most part but I can't for the life of me understand why you would tattoo the shit out of your body for such a fleeting trend, even in 2018. The look is also completely antithetical to the inspiration. Trying to immitate the look of a gentleman while having the skin of an inmate, but also loving working class shit... I don't know man, it's a fucking mess.

My fucking neighbors' gardener looks like this

>>13644262
>Trying to immitate the look of a gentleman while having the skin of an inmate, but also loving working class shit...
just because you were ye olde sailor doesn't mean you didn't also want to look like a upper class gentleman
compare it to todays criminals wearing bling and expensive clothing

>>13644235
was sitting next to a guy on the train that looked like this yesterday
>greasy ponytail with shaved sides
>silly long goatee thing
>crimson shirt
>floral patterned waistcoat
>doc martens
just don't get it

>>13644279
the differences are back then they were sailors, now they are just faggots who pretend to be manly but aren't actually manly at all

>>13644340
yeah sure, but that's the source of the aesthetic

>>13644340
implying these men couldn't all quote art of manliness dot com at length

>>13644340
I am insanely peeved by the people that dress like sailors and buy anchor everything but have never even seen a fucking boat

>>13644235
hipster, a fag, faggot

>Borderline metrosexual
>Acoustic stuff and swing music
>''Gentleman'' but working class at the same time
>Barbershop fetish
>Meaningless vintage typography as decoration
>Tunnel earrings, suspenders, arm tattoos and and ALWAYS the fucking handlebar moustache

It's too much of a defined ''style'' to be just called Hipster.
I can't believe there's no consensus on the definition.

>>13644235
I'll take a shot at it.

Before 'toxic masculinity' was a thing, the societal trend was towards men expressing their feelings, being more in touch with their feminine side, etc. If any of you remember daytime TV around 2006 or so, this was the height really of the Oprah/Dr.Phil encouragement of men learning to be more feminine, essentially.

There was a rather odd corollary with this, which I doubt is documented beyond refute but was certainly prevalent in people I knew. Women dressed their men, and men let them do so. It wasn't a case of the woman saying, 'I like this tie'....no no, it was more like, 'you need a hat to go with it, and I found the best pair of shoes for you too, oh and those socks need to be more colourful...'.

The idea was that in order for men to go along with the encouragement from the media to express themselves (and let's face it, the main consumers of the media were women, and they drink up this kind of propaganda of 'men don't know anything, you have to teach them'), they had to simply give up their choice about how they dressed to the women they were with, under the mistaken assumption that if they did what they were told, then that would make them more attractive to the woman they were with.

cont.

Trad tattos are amazing imo

>>13644235
The pinnacle of fedora culture. They actually look like what they imagine, or rather almost, but they're still cunts.

anyone want some craft beer

>>13644447
cont.

This created an interesting vacuum which needed to be filled. A great percentage of fashion style direction is dictated by what is 'in' and what is 'counter'. If clean suits are in, torn shit-fabric fashion is rebellious. Thus, due to the increasing feminization of men in their general fashion sense, the scene was ready for a counter to this; essentially, a fashion based on a combination of things that were traditionally masculine. Normally, you would see maybe one or two elements at once historically, but this time due to the lack of knowledge and good taste, people combined everything at once.

When you look at historical periods in the West, especially the most recent ones, you see a resurgence of styles on a 20-30 year cycle. 70's fashion came back aggressively in the late 1990's, 80's fashion came back briefly around 2008, etc. The problem is that the styles in these periods, both the current and resurgent were not in any way specifically masculine or feminine; they had those elements within, but they weren't 'hypersexualized'. The styles that were hyper actually were still part of the current kaleidoscope anyway; punk and rock comes to mind. This meant that any new hyper-masculine look would have to go outside of this timeframe (i.e. 1930's and before).

There is another fact that plays here. In the early 2000s we began to see the rise and (most importantly) societal support and respect for self-business and self-enterprise. The idea of being in a single company for your entire life slipped away due to economic factors of course, but the increasing entrepreneurship led to the social cache of visiting a microbrewery or getting your hair cut at 'the local' barbershop instead of a store-chain.

cont.

>>13644235
Its not victorian. Its edwardian

>>13644235
you have to think that once you tattooed yourself you are fucked up, you can't go back.

>>13644462
cont.

This meant that the people running the stores had to fit into that category of self-employed, but still had to look professional enough, AND look like they were part of the counter-culture in business where they are 'doing their own thing'.

This is where OP's style comes into play. What tells everyone you're doing your own thing, especially with regards to business? First off, the tattoo, which in the 80's and 90's was a no-go if you wanted a traditional job. So, 1st part of rebellion was tattoos that were not hidden, but proudly displayed. Next, you still have to look somewhat professional, but you can't wear a suit. What do you wear? Well, who doesn't like the look of a bartender from the old west, who looks professional and yet casual, an authority on people. Hence the waistcoat AND the rolled up sleeves.

The facial hair was one of the hyper-masculine offshoots, which again was a result of the 90's really, where everyone was clean-shaven. First it started with just big beards, and then it developed into people exploring older styles of moustache to differentiate themselves further from the beardies.

You see, this is the ultimate problem: the style came about, but then with enough people following the style, you had to differentiate yourself within it in order to be special. That's basically where we end up today.

The most interesting thing to me is that right now there is a small but noticeable push towards people who are getting tattoos removed, taking out their piercings, etc, because since 'everyone has them', they are no longer considered special or unique. The cycle continues...

>>13644447
Didn’t know Sargon was an /fa/ user

Basically the most desperate grasping for masculinity a modern man can do.

Unfortunately I still see guys like this everywhere

Nice read

>>13644491
One other element I forgot: the anti-modern trend that briefly showed its face around 2002. Lumberjacks...I forgot about lumberjacks.

Around the same time as the 1890's bartender look came back, we had a strange re-emergence of the lumberjack, which traditionally has always signified masculinity. Flannel shirts with sleeves rolled up, facial hair in abundance, and the look of someone who could take care of themselves.

I'd guess this was rooted in the rebellion against the corporate culture of the time (big cities, everyone working in finance, etc.), a way to get back to one's roots.

Anyway, I thought I'd mention it because I'm quite sure it had a significant role to play.

>>13644493
Interesting...I've never been compared to him before. Is there anything of value you'd like to contribute to this discussion, including if you disagree with my assertions and why you disagree? It would certainly help things move along....

>>13644502
Yes, you're quite right. Everyone knows it's a costume, but I think there's more at play psychologically than we might give it credit for.

Think about it this way. In the modern world, what areas in society can a man be traditionally masculine, in public, and without generating mockery? Aside from Fireman, The Army, and maybe construction workers, I can't think of a thing. The skills of a built man are not required at all, either for protection or sustenance, nor is the wisdom of a man required because the the world's knowledge is accessible instantaneously on the phone.

This leads to a very interesting phenomenon which I still think has yet to be fully researched. There was a time when men were required for their strength, their intelligence, and their wisdom. When these contributions to society, for the well being and continuation of it, are no longer necessary, then men simply lose their place. This isn't a case where a fireman is dressing up like a woman for halloween...everyone gets the joke because they know that if the fireman wasn't masculine, things would be 'problematic'. It's more like thinking, does anyone care of a male nurse dresses up as a woman for halloween? The reversal of visual roles simply doesn't have an effect, so it isn't a joke anymore.

Masculinity, in its biologically tailored format, is not necessary in the western world, and in truth the society has attempted to mold the male into something it is not. This is why there will always be articles about how Swedish men are not seen as being masculine enough by their female counterparts, as an example. But even with #MeToo and all that, it's become legally treacherous for men to take initiative in terms of their behavior, especially if they have money. So, it's almost a double-whammy....society doesn't need masculinity, and there is an attempt to remove the behavior as well.

cont.

>>13644364
''Hipster'' doesn't really mean anything anymore.
I feel like it was just a broad/meaningless term used to delegitimize everything that wasn't straight up normie in the early 2010s.
Like if you look for examples of ''hipster music'' you'll find everything from the Strokes to Frank Zappa to Lana Del Rey to the Arctic Monkeys simply Jazz.
The style that is questioned in this thread has very clear and defined aspects and to me it's baffling that there has been no other way to define it other than ''Hipster''.

Artofmanlinesscore? Handlebarcore? Nubarbershopcore?

>>13644536
Yeah it's basically the yuppie, hippie or whatever of it's day
>fucking young people dressing in a way that is currently considered fashionable in their circles reee get off my lawn

>>13644536
>to simply Jazz*
Fuck me i missed a ''to''.

cont.

What is left for a man to signal to a woman that he's masculine? If behavior is removed, and the job and function in society removed (and all of it mocked in the media as well), what do men have left? Their appearance. It's the only thing left that a man can control that cannot be outlawed yet.

Tattoos were always signs of a hard-working man, coming from the sailing tradition. Then it became very common in the 70's and 80's in counterculture. Piercings (aside from the usual left ear) became more numerous in the late 90's, flourishing in the 2000s. Lumberjack and 1890's bartender were again hard-core visual representations of men who don't take shit.

Wearing a suit on the high street isn't masculine. Nor is any form of normie-Dad-core. Even wearing comfortable clothing (baggy shorts and a golf shirt) isn't masculine because it almost indicates visually that the man is already taken care of...that he's not actively searching for a mate but has already got one or already given up. There was a NEED to signal masculinity because there was no other way to demonstrate it in modern society.

Agree/disagree? Why. C'mon Anons...there's a lot to this and it's important to fashion especially if we are trying to figure out how not to look like the people we make fun of...

>>13644546
>Their appearance
Yeah, but why can't they just work out and maybe have a beard or something? Why do they have to dress like a video game character?

>>13644533
I remember seeing this image on /pol/, a beard no longer indicates masculinity. Especially the lame excuses of a beard half these guys have (in combination with the s*y grin).
Thing is, men are still needed, leadership positions, bussiness, economics, politics, stem etc. Men fill most of the positions in these fields since they correspond with their insticts of masculinity, risk taking and protection.

Don Draper is a great example, though fictional. The character is an high ranking, creative executive in an advertising company yet he is heralded as a 21st pop culture symbol of masculinity.

>>13644546
To get the picture you posted out of the way first, let's examine Trudeau's body language. Closed, reserved, shy, like a boy waiting from his dad to pick him up from day care, not in any way what you would associate with the leader of a developed western country.

What I assume with are doing is mixing up cause and effect. I always like to use three examples. Whiskey, cigars and tattoos. All three immidiately are associated with masculinity because of the historical factors yet none of them make one masculine by default.
Traditional and true masculine roles are still greatly appreciated, people just like to think we've evolved past gender roles.


>inb4 go back to /pol/

>>13644359

I'm literally in the navy and have "earned" lots of the specific nautical tattoos but have no desire to get them, especially when some mincing soi ridden faggot had a Fucking anchor and swallows on his skinny neck

>>13644562
Proof reading this, I found some errors and mistakes so let me correct those

>waiting for his dad to pick him up from day care
>What I assume you are doing
>All three are immidiately associated

>>13644572
Oh, also the image I posted is obviously cherry picked to the extreme but it's a good example of the "facial hair is masculine" meme dying.

45 out 46 chromosomes can exist in both genders. Men and women are so simillar that baseing your whole look on the fact that you are a man (50% of the population) seems absurd. I mean don't you have anything else that you want to express about yourself?

>>13644584
*basing

>>13644556
Working out takes effort, and good nutrition to build muscles takes money. Protein powder is expensive...but more to the point time is expensive. If someone is working 14 hour shifts just to make ends meet, the last thing they'll have energy for is to work out. Changing one's body takes time and effort, and since we live in a culture of instantaneous shift, it almost doesn't pay to try doing something that has long lasting repercussions but takes a long time to get there.

>>13644562
The beard no longer indicating masculinity is precisely due to the overuse by people who need the costume but in which their costume is 'seen through' by the mass. I agree with you that men are needed, I just don't think they are needed in the numbers they once were, in jobs that were masculine in a physical way. The positions you talked about do not require any animalistic physical strength...nothing that turns the hormones on of a woman. I agree with your assessment about WHY men fill these positions, but I simply think that the positions themselves only show their worth to women through the societal power that is wielded and the capital raised (that can support potential children).

Funny about Draper..I've never watched the series ever, but my impression is that he's simply what modern businessmen wish they could be. Is this true?

My pic of Justine is not necessarily an exemplar...it's just funny. I agree with you to a point about whiskey, cigars, and tattoos. The problems all come about when we try to describe precisely who thinks we've evolved past gender roles. When given the free chance, the general population 'devolves' back into gender roles (Scandinavian countries show this) because it's what works for them the most. The only ones who want to remove gender roles are the ones who don't fit into it or don't benefit from it.

>I won't ever tell anyone to get out or go back somewhere...that's empty. Glad you're here.

>>13644546

I fucking hate the 70s. bunch of degenerates, only liked the rock music that came out of it

>>13644533
>nor is the wisdom of a man required because the the world's knowledge is accessible instantaneously on the phone.
dumbest fucking thing I've heard

>>13644687
Hang around senior citizens (i.e. 65<), you'll see what I mean.

When older people argue points with each other, the agreement upon who is right if everyone is wrong usually cedes to the person with the most respect and 'wisdom' in the social hierarchy. This is the way things were until the internet became something that not only had the data but we could access it from our phones instead of running to a computer and waiting for dial-up.

Today, if a young person wants to say, start a fire on a campsite, they'll look up how to do it online instead of relying upon the wisdom of an elder who's nearby. Furthermore, it is likely that the older person is made a fool of because their practical knowledge may be outdated or they may simply have learned something without knowing that any other methods or strategies existed in other parts of the world.

Add that to the change in how people work (many different jobs in different fields rather than slowly building expertise in a single field) and you have a situation where wisdom is no longer required.

I understand your sentiment, but in many parts of the western world I'd argue that wisdom as the older generations knew it is simply obsolete. And we haven't even considered the ramifications of how older generations viewed the world vs. how younger generations do now...that actually supports my position further, because even if people did listen to their elders, the world has shifted heavily outside of their comfort zones.

Soi bois are only a coastie problem.

>>13644702
I'm guessing you're the guy with a phone but no wisdom in this scenario

>>13644715
Nope, just a guy who has a large family and has lived long enough to see the change. It's sad actually, because in the modern age we really don't have to remember much at all. Anything we need to know can be accessed, so there's no need to commit anything to memory. There's a lot of complaining from teachers right now about how the younger generation doesn't have any skill at memory retention or attentiveness, and I believe it's connected to this very issue. Why learn something when it's already written down somewhere else to access when required? Given the use of information today, it's difficult to refute this position.

But it's also why so many young people have difficulty with language skills (spelling, etc.), but that's another story.

I shouldn't say it's a sad state of affairs...but given what we've lost in terms of human interaction irl, I can't help but feel sad nevertheless.

As a Barber Student and aspiring Tattooist I dont mind the traditional barber look as long as they're some sort of craftsmen or do at least 1 semi masculine thing and actually enjoy it like Combat Sports/ Cars /MotorCycles/ Guns/ Sports/ etc etc etc

Personally my fashion style is more LunarCore/CyberPunk/ Milspo/ and Distressed Casual StreetWear/ and SLP than anything

but there is one Ye Olde Timey Barber Shop in my City that has old Tattoo Flash all over the walls and a pinball machine and a TV for Sports and mustaches and beards everywhere while being located above an English Pub and I'd LOVE to work there just relaxing and doing nice cuts all day hanging out with doods and having that sense of comradeship that is quickly fading away with today's Ultra Inclusive society, the shop actually got sued because for yrs they wouldnt let women come in and it was a mens ONLY barber shop but dykes got butthurt and forced them to or else the shop would get sued into closing, even tho places like CURVES which is a Womens ONLY gym is never even mentioned or bothered..

Anyway end of rant live and let live I guess, just wish there were more mens clubs its harder and harder to find places where guys can hangout or play and just be a guy without worrying about what they say or do.

>>13644845
>Personally my fashion style is more LunarCore
Ever been to the moon, faggot?

Yeah, didn't think so.

>>13644852
Are you fucking implying I havent!? you trapped Earthling fag!?!

>>13644870
I wish this image had a snarky filename so that we could finally decide wich core is OP image and how it's called.

>>13644845
>places like CURVES
At least in Canada, men can go there.
Also man, that place is run by such a fucking asshole.

>>13644870
what the fuck is the "millennial whoop"?

>>13645037
Litterally the fist video you find if you google ''Millennial whoop'' explains it to you in less than two minutes.

>>13644562
What's weird is that that pic is really just an example of handsome vs. boyish, nothing to do with facial hair. All the actors on the left (except for grant, I think) all look good with beards

>>13644702
this is how millenials think, you outdid yourself with this one desu

>>13645071
yeah its a low quality bait, the guys on the right would look awful clean shaven too

unironically gonna rock the mutton chops + stache
with tweed suit pieces and suspenders

best thread on /fa/ right now.

>>13644262
>it's a fucking mess
Because they are doing everything all at once. These people are a walking clusterfuck of tired hipster cliches.Everything about them is so affected and deliberately just so.

It's the cobbled together non-cohesive identikit from the same tired little list I see that is claustrophobic and boring.

Fuck craft beer and anyone who drinks it. I've worked at 4 Fucking craft breweries so far. Not in the line - in brewing, in engineering, in QA/chem and as the Fucking fixer of all machines. With out a doubt craft breweries and the people who own/buy from them are trash. 90% of the time, they have designed a layout themself of the plant that makes everything super inconvenient to pipe/maintain, they will have some contract brewing side going on that Fucks productivity and any sense of organization to he'll and back, they without a doubt will interrupt any process you are working on to bother you for free samples for their friends they are show around the plant (who all ignore safety measures), they pay employees for shit and expect them to violate a variety of legal barriers, and all the while run themselves more like a tech start up than a Fucking plant. They envision themselves as the little guy fighting for a plot whilst they are bottling and canning shit from major companies and conveniently labelling stuff with a bottling address other than their own. Then they have the balls to suggest their beer is somehow higher quality, and most of the time it's not, so they hike the price up and retarded hipsters and non conformist alike will buy for cred in their own circles and the process of idiocy continues.

Fuck craft beer.

>>The first who replies ''hipster'' dies in a fire.
>''Hipster'' doesn't really mean anything anymore.

The problem is you guys want to deny that Hipster exists because it's not a a static thing like Mod or Punk.
Hipster is, in fact, very real. That is why people are so easily able to point at a look and say "That is hipster." You think that discredits it, it's actually evidence FOR it.
People have pattern recognition and they notice the pattern even though the specific elements today are a bit different than they were yesterday.
All of this is by design. The idea is to create a sort of... Final solution to subcultures.
You have one all-encompassing subculture that can include just about everyone in it.
If it didn't refresh itself it would be harder for it to recruit younger people into it.
It's all about marketing products. If you're selling punk music to punks you can't make as much money as if you were selling a kind of music that everyone listens to.
I bet you have all seen girls talking about how much they love Marvel movies, right?
Marvel movies are mostly shit, they don't deserve that amount of love. What these girls are doing is telling you they're part of the Final Subculture. It's like the 2018 version of having a scene haircut.

>>13645674
They all dream of building their brand and selling out for millions. Nobody wants their shitty merch or to eat crappy burgers at their brewery restaurant.

>>13645707
Exactly. It's just posturing by middle class pleas.

>>13645026
I'm pretty sure men get btfo from Curves
And which owner? The barbershop? Or the curves?

>>13644235
>The first who replies ''hipster'' dies in a fire.
This is literally the Gavin McInnes style of hipster, though. I mean, unless you're talking about a fucking beatnik with a striped shirt, goatee and beret nothing is as appropriate to call hipster as this look is.

>>13644604
What absolute average fucking joe is working 14 hr shifts????

Stop making up ridiculous false excuses most ppl are just lazy, 30mins isnt much out of a day anyone can find 30mins for a decently strenuous workout

>>13645095
Some of the guys on the right could embrace the nerdy/softboy aesthetic and look very good.
Instead they try to appear whatever they think ''manly'' is, fucking up every good chance of redemption for themselves.

>>13644568
>"earned" tattoos
>is still a slimy wog
anon, it's time to come clean

>>13645675
A ''subculture to rule them all'' sounds useless TBF, and not far from an idea the ''boomer who yells at non-normie kids'' would apply.
Of course ''Hipster'' means something but it's so vague it's useless.

Vintage typography is as ''Hipster'' as color corrected landscapes with superimposed minimal geometry. And they have nothing in common.
Alt-j are as ''Hipster'' as Jazz. And they have nothing in common.
Wes Anderson is as ''Hipster'' as Bela Tarr. And they have nothing in common.

I think there's a lot of mislabeled stuff under the ''Hipster'' umbrella that needs a clearer definition.
OP image is an example of something that has very clear and defined traits by itself but no name. And it's driving me crazy.

>>13644235
It's literally hipster though. The idolization of retro working class looks. There is no other term for this. Americana isn't the same.

>>13646440
>OP image is an example of something that has very clear and defined traits by itself but no name.
The name is hipster.

It's just that word hipster is used for all trends since the late 2000s, which is why it seems meaningless - in reality, all those trends have their own names. It's like scene kids, hardcore kids, emos, mall goths etc. were all called "emo" in the 2000s, and like you could call punks, metalheads and goths "rockers".

What OP means:
>Retro working class - hipsters

What is also called hipster yet has its own names:
>Workwear, henleys, flanell shirts, redwing boots - lumbersexual/Americana
>Those guys in the skinny jeans wearing flies and flamboyant "dapper" shit - early 2010s preppy
>Those freaks with their early 90s vidya fetish - ironic nerds
and so on.

>>13646493
>It's just that word hipster is used for all trends since the late 2000s, in reality, all those trends have their own names.
So the word ''Hipster'' is still useless.

>Retro working class
Eh, good enough.

>>13644235
It still is popular in Russia, at least was last year.

>>13644458
Its not 2004 anymore, grampa. Craft beer is pretty mainstream now

If i could grow a moustache like nietzsche i would

>>13644235
one word, beardbrand

>>13645675
>>13646440
/mu/tant here. I guess it's like the term "EDM", where plebs conveniently put all the electronic music genres into one inclusive genre
Disgusting

>>13644235
It's closely related to lumbersexual so I guess I'd just call it barbersexual.

>>13644726
Have you ever read anything by Yuval Noah Harari, I feel you’d enjoy it, homo deus specifically.

>>13646834
Shit Barbersexual works man.

>>13644235
post scene/emo

"The Gavin"

>>13646709
If you want to look like this kind on sub-larping shit then sure.

>>13645675
I agree that hipsters are still a thing but it's a lot harder for me to define now than it was 8 or 9 years ago. Back in the late 00s it seemed like there was a fairly distinct hipster spectrum that ranged from American Apparel hipsters (v-necks, brightly colored clothes, glasses, etc.) to folksy hipsters (flannels, beards, lumbersexual, craft beer, and vintage shit). There were things that were common to hipsters across that spectrum too, like tattoos, interest in vintage fashion and facial hair styles, indie rock and folk music, certain attitudes about politics and popular culture.

Maybe it's easier to define in retrospect, but I remember it being a fairly distinct thing back then as well.

Actually after writing that I'm not sure that the Hipster is still a thing. Seems like the subculture really splintered and evolved into a bunch of different things that exist today, but aren't really connected by anything other than not being the mainstream. I guess you could still use it as an umbrella term, but I'm not sure it's as useful as it was back in the late 00s.

>>13646898
oof that picture sucks ass

>>13645675
>>13647079
Hipsters are the one of the logical end points of Western individualism.
People criticize hipsters for not being genuine, for not actually caring about what they purport to enjoy. This is true. Hipsters, like other extreme individualists care only for social capital and image. To be truly invested, and truly passionate about a topic goes against their goal. They are the ultimate individualist, who takes part in activities that give them social capital without being tied down by any static subculture that would make them part of a real collective.

Take artists collectives for example. Ironically, they're an expression of individualism. They're artists' collectives. Not collectives of artists. They're simply places where these individualists do their own thing, and pursue their own name as an artist in a "collective space". Similarly from a political perspective, many hipsters are left-wing, many enjoy marxism. But they're obsessed with identity politics rather than justice for the collective, because that works their their over the top individualist attitudes.

Just as some /pol/acks express their individualism by fapping to trap porn in their basements while screeching about degeneracy on the internet, hipsters also live the individualist contradiction. It's just the way things are these days. We can talk all we want about being part of a community, or caring for the nation, but in the end individualism has mostly won. It wasn't a political movement, or a conspiracy, it's just how things turned out, regardless of your ideological affiliation.

>>13644235
no idea, a lot of people threw it in with the "lumberjack" aesthetic, or with the "hipster"-label so I never really knew what it was called.

Funny how hipster has been such an everchanging term where I'm from that it basically has no value as a label anymore. It basically just means you're trendy these days

>>13647192
>But they're obsessed with identity politics rather than justice for the collective, because that works their their over the top individualist attitudes.
This doesn't make sense to me. Identity politics are inherently collectivist.

>>13644235
Closet racists trying to pass off as original, artistic , tolerant and metropolitan but secretly yearn for the good old days of a white america and say they live in the city but actually live in the suburbs
> implying I’m wrong

>>13646898
The only one that looks remotely okay is the guy 2nd from the left, checkered suit. WTF is up with the Mexican manlet tho, doesn't fit at all and really creeping me out

>>13647352
Nigger, every single one of these guys I've met is a hardcore liberal.

>>13647693
This

>>13646440
>A ''subculture to rule them all'' sounds useless TBF

Useless to whom? It's certainly not useless to the men that want to sell things and that is what subcultures exist to do. To encourage you to buy things.
If you thought they were about "self expression" or some crap like that: you're just wrong.

>>13646440
>OP image is an example of something that has very clear and defined traits by itself but no name. And it's driving me crazy.

It has a name. The name is hipster. Didn't you read my post? I'll admit I am sure it could be put in a much more intelligent manner than I put it.

It's like you want to say a pelican and a sparrow are not birds because look at how different they are - they couldn't possibly be grouped under the same name!

>>13647079
>it's a lot harder for me to define now

That's deliberate. They want it to be as big of a tent as possible and if you make it too much of a thing then it has to discriminate against people that don't or can't be in the thing.
It gets to where "subculture" doesn't even seem to be the right thing to call it anymore but "culture" doesn't quite work either. Maybe "consumer culture" would fit it.
The thing that is called hipster is still distinct from the thing that is called normie so you can't call it THE culture.

>>13647772
If someone showed you a photo of some kind of exotic bird asking for its name you'll understand that telling him ''it's a bird, don't you see?'' is kinda retarded and pretty fucking useless.

>>13644491
Rolled up sleeves look good on almost everybody

>>13644845
>ort of craftsmen or do at least 1 semi masculine thing and actually enjoy it like Combat Sports/ Cars /MotorCycles/ Guns/ Sports/ etc etc etc

yall are so fucking dumb.

>>13644536
Yep. People who through out the word Hipster as derision were usually worth ignoring completely, since all they were doing is judging young people for doing the same thing young people always do - grab onto something trendy and kick mainstream culture in the balls for a few years before most of them inevitably give up an assimilate themselves.

Hipster never meant anything but “people I’m judging because they arent conforming like me”.

>>13645675

>Thinking saying you like Marvel movies makes you a hipster

Oh boy

>>13647328
Not if you’re only using your political identification as a flag with which to draw attention to yourself. Then you’re just using the attention of a collective to float yourself.

>>13644726
>Alot of teachers are complaining that kids can't remember things.

Why does the American education system value short term memory so much? If it's being replaced with technology maybe it isn't as important as we thought

>>13644845
>masculine thing and actually enjoy it like Combat Sports/ Cars /MotorCycles/ Guns/ Sports/ etc etc etc
Wtf even? Masculine hobbies? I'm a straight up faggot bottom twink but I literally do/did all of those things and then some. A fucking hobby won't make you any more or less masculine. Also combat sports is so full of insecure closet homosexuals it isn't even funny.

>>13647890
>Hipster never meant anything but “people I’m judging because they arent conforming like me”.
Or maybe it meant "I'm not conforming purely for the sake of not conforming rather than because I am actually different."

>>13644519
>interesting...I've never been compared to him before. Is there anything of value you'd like to contribute to this discussion, including if you disagree with my assertions and why you disagree? It would certainly help things move along....

hahahaha stop larping as an intelectual neckbeard

>>13647693
>>13647740
reposting liberal crap on facebook doesn't make you liberal

>>13644627
hot fucking take there bud. kick the fucking chair already you fucking retard

>>13648050
Don't hipsters conform to the current hipster style?

>>13644519
holy fuck is this devil may cry man

>>13644340
This, they're copying sailors.
Of course on the sailors all of those tattoos had a meaning, they tattooed their job, a hot girl/pin up, names of people that mater to them etc...Now those copying are fucking ridiculous.
Imo they do it to look manly/alpha.

>>13644568
Is the new generation of stolen valor.

These posts are interesting but they leave me with one question
How do I become more masculine instead of just pretending to be?

>>13644235
I now consider this the stereotypical 2010s urban barber look. It is less likely to see a barber looking like that, with so many tattoos, or any at all, in small towns, even moderate ones, but in large towns, a lot of them look like the hipster barber stereotypes. I also don't get why they choose to have tattoos, when their inspirations for the haircuts and clothes are usually late Victorian to early 1960s, and everything in between. For instance, in 1940, almost no barber would have had tattoos like that.

>>13646898

These guys run a barber shop in Rotterdam which opened relatively early into this trend emerged, as such they're immensely popular now. The bald guy between the two guys with the hats is good friend of my girlfriend's best friend. I've never gone, because it's a bit too larp for me, but they have done quite a lot of good. A lot of their employees are ex-cons and they're giving them an education to become a barber so they'll stay off the streets, which I think is cool.

Regardless of what you think of the look, a lot of these guys were petty criminals and general nuisances before and have turned their lives around in a pretty meaningful way. Thought I'd give some backstory on the picture.

>>13648701

>early into this trend emerged

*meant to say when this trend emerged.

>>13648701
Can confirm, went to their barbershop during my stay in the Netherlands. Very chill guys and good at their craft. I assume their attire is tied to their business which draws more attention to it, thus more costumers.

>>13644235

The only reason you fags are so butthurt about this look is because it attracts pussy and you can't pull it off.

>>13645786
>30 mins
Never going to make it, bud

>>13644235
I live in a tiny german town with around 35000 inhabitants and we got 5 barbershops and nobody grows a beard around here except the muslims and some faggy hipster guys who just started with the whole "i wax my beard everyday" shit. Why do we germans always lose the advantage?

is the current tattoo fad going to fade? I see a lot of faggots getting sleeves and thots getting huge thigh tats which will definitely look like shit in a few years

>>13648726
>attracts pussy
fat bitch or sjw pussy?
pass

>>13649036
Art Hoes know better.
Barbersexual can't even get hipster pussy.

>>13646709
I have one. it's pretty much the best decision I ever made. Most can't grow one, though haha

>>13645674
I'll second this motion, but only from the quality of the beer itself. I've done some 'blind' taste tests with friends who swear by craft beer, and when we do comparisons with normal company production (like the usual big companies) within the same realm (i.e. comparing several Pilsners from different companies, craft and large company), the larger companies always win out. Bitburger is fucking fantastic as a pilsner, and nothing craft that is near my area comes close. But you can go down the list too, and the larger companies always win out.

Honey, on the other hand....well, craft honey can be fucking phenomenal....

>>13645786
You'd be surprised. Nurses pull those kinds of hours, packing/factory employees might as well. My point is that when you have work that just makes ends meet that takes all your energy, the last thing you have the energy to do after cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping etc. is to have energy to work out. Many people work out early in the morning to combat this, but what ends up happening is that when they get home from work they simply go to the couch, turn on the tv, and sleep. If you want to be really in shape, you need lots of sleep, lots of food, and energy to make sure your workout is actually productive and challenging to your body and not simply running on fumes. Jesus...it's like you've never worked out when being exhausted in a 6 day work-week. Having energy and time to workout properly is a luxury many people don't have, but it's the energy that is usually the problem, not necessarily the time.

>>13646841
Don't know any of it, so I'll look it up. Thanks Anon.

>>13644235
I’m a fifth year at my uni and I’m trying to get out of here this year so I visited my new major advisor and he dresses just like this. His office in covered in shit like this and he plays music from the 30s in the background.

>>13647876
Yes, but you have to understand the visual symbolism it represents. When someone has their sleeves rolled up, it represents 'working' or 'getting the job done' or 'getting dirty'. It is indicative of 'proactive', which is why male politicians love to do this when they're campaigning. But it also indicates 'lower class', which means that the politician visually identifies with the lower financial classes. This, incidentally, is why Trump never does this.

>>13647918
This is a serious problem actually. Given that tech is in fact replacing the need for actual memory in terms of learning, we're developing a society that doesn't need to have knowledge that is passed down from person-to-person directly but rather passed down through the internet library. This in itself isn't a bad thing...but it does have social repercussions that we really can't predict. What is the value of learning something from someone in the room rather than learning something by reading about it or watching a YT video? I have no idea....and furthermore, I think the future generations will value these styles of learning very differently to how many of us oldfags view it now. The only problem I see is that if the technology breaks down (power outage or worse) then we're left helpless, as the knowledge that would normally be passed down to do bare essentials is gone. This is why I think there has been a push or rediscovery by many people of basic skills (hunting, fishing, cooking over a wood fire, building log cabins, etc.)...they worry about their inherent uselessness if the power goes out, so they want to relearn things that in some respects (cooking esp.) they should have learned from their parents at the same time as learning to read.

>>13648081
But Anon, I don't have a beard.

>>13648645
Yes it is.

>>13648652

This is one of the most important things that has happened since the modern shift into fashion occurred. It's the exact same problem we see with jewelry dog-tags that men wear. The idea of taking something that has specific and significant meaning and using it in fashion so that the wearer will be identified with the valor without the need to acquire it. It's a costume, like OP's pic. People wear it for the association and the social collateral that comes with it. Granted, that's what fashion in the general public is anyway...conforming to a group or rebelling against it. But it's still about sending signals to people about who you are, who you want to be, and who you belong to or fight against.

>>13648655
That's easy Anon. Identify what you find to be 'masculine', and make yourself so. If it's to be stronger physically, then lift. If it's to be more intelligent than others, then read more (and choose your literature carefully). Clothing doesn't make you masculine, it's just the final touch, the icing on the cake. Everyone sees masculinity slightly differently, and everyone needs to adjust or develop themselves in different spheres to balance out their masculine aura. If you're like me, you didn't give a shit about your body because you didn't need to, and there were other areas of status that meant that women were interested without my having to try. But then I got older, and I recognized that my body wasn't indestructible, and that I'd have to start taking serious care of it before it's too late. I had to develop my physicality, not for masculinity or anyone else, but for my own health. What shouldn't come as a surprise (but in truth always does) is that when you take care of your body, your confidence and 'masculinity' grows as well. It's different for each person, but hopefully this makes sense to you.

>>13648726
You'd be surprised Anon. The hipster/lumberjack look is so common here that normal women find it annoying, and the only women you see with these guys now are the tattooed/heavily-pierced goth girls. Apparently to have the whole get-up with beard, flannel, tattooed arms, etc. is too 'try-hard'. In other words, they see through the costume, especially if the guy happens to espouse hard feminist rhetoric (in the hopes that it makes them attractive to women). No Anon, that look has passed its peak, at least where I live.

>>13648821
The common consensus was that it would be a good investment to put money into tattoo-removal places....but so far the evidence just hasn't followed the prediction. The thought was that society would eventually revert back to the point where having visible tattoos was socially disagreeable...but that hasn't happened. The tech industry has embraced this, which furthers it, and since the expectation is for financial jobs (traditional in banks etc.) are going to decline in numbers with the tech industry expanding, the old social expectation regarding how you look and present yourself will likely die out and not have a resurgence. I don't think the fad will go away, I just think people will go for less because they'll want to distinguish themselves from their elders.

>>13649783
Don't be too hard on him Anon. You see this in university all the time now: professors who feel they can FINALLY express themselves and be who they want to be. In some ways you almost need to pity them, because they've clearly felt so out of place in society that this is their way of feeling okay with themselves, and promoting this feeling in the only protected area of society left for them (many unis now are like kindergartens, honestly...). Just focus on your work, your future goals, and develop yourself, and be thankful that you don't have to 'make a point' about your individuality to feel comfortable with your individuality.

>>13644340
Fashion is about living in a lie, eees normal

>>13647923
You can be a masculine twink, but those are traditional masculine hobbies as opposed to ballet and macrome lol

>>13645785
Gavin McInnes looks like this stereotype? I don't know much about him other than he is known for being a political commentator.

>>13650572
He invented the hipster

>>13647923
maybe you're more butch than you realize, anon

>>13644491
>The most interesting thing to me is that right now there is a small but noticeable push towards people who are getting tattoos removed, taking out their piercings, etc, because since 'everyone has them', they are no longer considered special or unique. The cycle continues...

hahaha I knew that it would loop around to this, that's why I've still got no tats

>>13649102
>Barbersexual

YES, THIS IS IT OP

>>13644584
I feel that if you don't want to play up your gender you don't have to. People who usually do are insecure in their masculinity/femininity to at least a small degree.

>>13644340
Basedlers

>>13644502
>Basically the most desperate grasping for masculinity a modern man can do.
but it's all veneer
they don't have the weight of personality and crumble when they should hold fast
it's a larp, as someone said

>>13644533
>society doesn't need masculinity,
wrong
it's been told to not WANT it
it's more needed than ever as far as I can see all over the western world, particularly in the anglophone nations

>>13648650
>this one here says sink or swim
>it symbolizes all of the adversity i have ovecome in my life
>I got it because this one summer I had a really hard time but I pulled through!
>this one also symbolizes how hard my life is
>so does this one
>and this one
>this one is a tiger
>i like tigers

>>13644533
>what areas in society can a man be traditionally masculine, in public
In the South it's pretty normal.

>>13644273
I'm glad my neighbor's a latino stud that just wears regular jeans and a white wife beater
doesn't get any more /fa/ than the classics

>>13644870
>katy perry is a basedboy numale
people are retarded

>>13644235
imagine actually look like this

>>13645062
Ignorance was bliss. Now that I'm aware of it I'm in a bad mood.

>>13647923
You sound like you would be a pretty fun boyfriend.

>>13652162
Yeah, it's fucking perfect.
Now we wait for the Vice/Buzzfeed article.

>>13644712
>T. Small Fish in a small pond

Go to Austin Texas. Go to pretty much any white part of Oklahoma...

>>13644235
I blame Bronson (2008).

"What happens is we often have people trying to emulate a sort of cargo cult attempt at "manliness", the sort of thing that results in making fussy rituals out of activities like shaving with a straight razor or grilling barbeque - a shared vision of what grown-ups and men are supposed to be is gone, and now we have all of these people who think they can pick and choose among the old virtues while still putting juvenile things at the center of their lives.

Plus there's a good bet that some of your manergy types with their fussy beards and tats feel if not contempt then simple disregard for men who go to work, have good work ethic, engage in their communities, care for their family and all the other "boring" manly things, but are completely awestruck by items out of a gross, cartoonishly exaggerated version of manhood - LUMBERJACK EATING A SANDWICH CONSISTING OF PISTOLS, CHAINSAWS AND EXPLOSIVES WHILE GROWING A BEARD or something equally dumb like that and decide to man up and try and develop some manly affectations.

They always wind up being a walking parody of whatever they're trying to do, going through the motions in such a self-conscious and deliberate way it becomes pathetic. The most popular "man hobbies" seem to meet three main criteria

1. it's something an old man would do, and 2) it can involve a lot of ridiculous props that really aren't needed and 3) most of the effort is in buying the items involved.

Cigars, certain booze (whiskey, scotch, etc), the love of stupid hats, wearing vintage clothing that usually makes them look like a lumpy Mad Men cosplayer and their shaving fetishes are good examples. "I make a needlessly elaborate ritual out of shaving with an old-fashioned straight razor, which makes me soooo manly! Now I'm going to drink some expensive whiskey that I'll insist is really great because it's expensive, even though in a blind taste test I couldn't tell the difference between it and a bottle of bargain stuff from a Costco, etc."

>>13644235
idk man, hipster is what people called it. If you're for the term that people called it that wasn't "hipster" then you'll have to ride a unicorn to the end of the rainbow to find it.

>>13644235
Popeye-core

>>13647869
But he wouldn't be wrong.

>>13646898
>>13647088
>>13647683


I know nobody like that personally - so I can't comment on their political views and stuff. Maybe people who look like that are indeed cringy SJW fags with aggressively feminist opinions.

But not admitting that this LOOKS dope as fuck, is just retarded.

>>13654534

>>13644235
The Williamsburg

>>13654761
they were the OGs
hipster runoff bros were pretty effay desu

>>13644715
>>13645092
Boomers detected

>>13654565
>But not admitting that this LOOKS dope as fuck, is just retarded.

Not really it looks fucking gay

>>13655374
>Not really it looks fucking gay

everything fashionable looks gay if you are a boring cunt

well, let's see what you consider a good style for men

>>13647328
You clearly don't understand what's going on.
A collectivist in a truly culturally collectivist country worries about society at large, and fitting into that society. Not acting like a little fucking snowflake and DEMANDING that every other person respect their unique minority status. That's individualism to the extreme.

Singapore for example has many different ethnic and cultural groups, but is collectivist. They don't engage in identity politics on an individual level, they engage in group politics, which is quite different.

Yanks tend to think
>left wing = collectivist, right wing = individualist
Which is fucking wrong. Stop eating up cold war misinterpretations of cultural psychology. Collectivism and individualism are cultural worldviews that are not bound to a particular political slant. The libertarian American is just as individualist as the transgender Muslim convert American who demands special treatment. It's just two sides of the same cultural practice.

>>13648701
I'm from Rotterdam, these guys are actually genuinely cool people.

Check out their website;
https://schorembarbier.nl

>>13649775
is that shillary

>>13649775
Bitburger literally tastes like vomit.

>>13644562
White men are so feminine.

The fuck is up with the "anti-SJW" rhetoric in here. It's less about shallow politics and more about the commodification of "identities."

This got popular because there was a general trend (in food--Whole Foods, grooming products--"organic" shampoo & straight razors, fashion, etc.) towards an "old timey" aesthetic that contrasted modern artificiality with the "natural": organics, rugged individualism, freedom, self-sustainability, traditional masculinity, etc.--explaining the "lumberjack" aesthetic that precedes this. It's a reaction to the spectacle of modern life. It's a caricature of not just masculinity, but also of a fictional time before society became all fucked up.

Postmodern cultural changes resulted in a fundamental disconnect between the image and the "real" In a culture obsessed with consumption, hyperindividualism and irony (a trend that has only gotten more pronounced over time), there's an increasing longing for "authenticity," which is why the "indie"/"natural" trend got as big as it did (still going, actually). This look is a mosaic of recycled elements that allude to certain values and ideals (like all modern "styles"), particularly those of a mythical time that was seemingly free from these hangups of modern capitalist society. The irony is that it was simply another trend that capitalized on this longing for the authentic. You could buy this bullshit from UO and pat yourself on the back for being "different"--"Real." It's the natural conclusion to a societal practice in which people compensate for a lack of personality and meaning with fetishized commodities--basically fashion in a nutshell.

The reason why this look feels incoherent is because modern society is itself fragmented to the point of incoherence. It's a clusterfuck of parts without a whole, a la carte consumption without a strong foundation to tie it together. You're not buying a "look" so much as you are buying into a vague, mythical idea of authenticity in world severely lacking.

>>13644235

the worst is dudes in the hardcore scene with this look
it definitely used to be more of a thing
pls stay dead

>>13644235
>Fashy hair cut
>50s glasses
>Ridiculous mustache
>Gauged ears
>Tattoos

This is a Trainwreck of styles

>>13644262
That's the point. It's ironic.

>>13660416
It wasn't meant to be ironic. Retarded normals aren't that self aware.

>>13644447
>>13644462
>>13644491
t. brainlet

>>13648670
Fucking scary how accurate this is. My hairdresser looks exactly like that guy on the left but with blonde instead of pink highlights.

He's not a shitlib sjw though, he was making fun of autistic kids last time I was in

>>13644519
It was weird watching the lumberjack thing come in while I lived in a town which also had a strong forestry industry. People dressing like oldtimey lumberjacks judging guys in steel cap boots and hi visibility shirts who fell trees for a living

Based essay anon

>>13650572
He was at the beginning of the most recent cycle of "Brooklyn is cool". And he founded VICE which used to be underground and cool.

https://youtu.be/Qbn6Kvb1RZY?t=16m16s

this was episode was filmed in 2006 and he was the arbiter of "cool". before he started dressing trad he was just normal new york hipster

>>13661676
Reminds me of San Francisco and Seattle. It rains and is 40 degrees most of the year, combine that with rich people that are most likely from another state/country equals people wearing $800 arcteryx mountaineering shells to walk three or four city blocks on their commutes.

>>13659625
So they want to feel authentic by co-opting early 20th century style and practices. Doesn't make sense to me. Also, early 20th century was capitalist as fuck, back when monopoly wasn't just a game.

>>13663573
i think you're missing the reasoning behind "moving backwards". it's reactionary from realising we went too far with industrialisation/throw way culture/plastics whatever you want to call it or zoom in on.

an example is choosing free range eggs- people do it because it's healthier, more natural, supports traditional farming. you can choose whatever reason to do it, but generally people agree it's better for society in some way. it became bastardised as "let me dress like this as well". i realise that most of these people are still buying mass produced slave labour clothing, but at some point the understood the dichotomy between buying handmade/traditional goods while wearing neon polyester clothing.

>>13648701
That’s tight anon. Remember this is a bunch of basement dwellers with no life experience who are trying to talk about masculinity on the internet. They’ll never produce anything of value to the world.

>>13663602
Polyester clothing used to be much more of a big deal, between the 1960s, especially the 1970s, and then a bit less in the 1980s. Generally, after that, interests in synthetics has been focused on more high tech kinds than the now rather old-fashioned and tame polyester. Of course, I am inclined to use less synthetics, these days, and newer purchases have mostly excluded them.

>>13644235
the Brosevelt

is this sperg still typing up essays while wearing his gay devil may cry jacket

>>13664284
What jacket is that? Am I thinking of the same one you are thinking of, and wasn't it a coat, rather than a shorter jacket?

Hily shit that dude is typing up his fucking thesis itt. In response to OP i remember I saved a meme of that look back in 2012 as it was called the reddit look at the time.

>>13665036
different guy here. I have the other versions of this. It's pretty spot on. Shows like "Peaky Blinders" and "Boardwalk Empire" really further the already stupid obsession with the 20s/30s look.

>>13666026
I try not to judge people on how they carry themselves clothing/style wise but holy shit this and fraternity styles (vineyard vines ect) are just so awful.

>>13648744
>he rests for more than 30 seconds

>afraid ill look like a hipster if i start dressing a certain way I've been thinking about
>see this thread

yea there's no way in hell I'll even look like a hipster much less have the opinions of one