/fa/ - Fashion

That depends, what is the name of this org? If it is just some liberal yuppie type college campus bullshit, then expect tumblr. If it is a real communist organization, one with a grasp on theory and history, it is likely to be composed of mostly working-class folk who don't give a shit how you dress.

I'm a member of the latter, and I dress mostly slacker/techwear/working-class anarkiddie

Tankie core: plain red t shirt, cargo pants and hiking boots
Trot chic: kifyeh or beret, green raincoat and ripped jeans
Maoist rebel wear: same as trot chic but with badges and patches
AnCom clothing: all black everything with patches

>pic related, op
dress like this and you'll fit right in

>>11347828
muh nigga

>>11347777
Welcome comrade :)

Is it a ML org?

>>11347795
what org senpai

Giggling at this thread.

>>11347951
woah famm u're so damn cool xD

>>11347795
what point is this pic trying to make exactly

>>11347968
the point fucking obviously is that the main concern of the working class should be class struggle and not identity politics
are you really that dumb?

>>11347947
For discussion, education I attend Socialist Alternative. I'm not really a Trot though, I was compelled by some of their successes in direct action against foreclosure, 15now, council woman in Seattle, etc etc. I've also worked with IWW, but a lot of the anarkiddies like to circle jerk about anarchy too much imo. I want results. I like some of what SPUSA has to say and does. Need more people in the left in the US desu, too much liberal tumblr shit
>>11347968
The guy carrying the idpol garbage to the trashbin of history is based Marx. These identity politic issues detract from the root of all issues in society (the base, i.e. economic). By squabbling over "muh racial purity" or "muh gendered pronouns" etc, you are buying into the game of distraction that the ruling elite want you to buy. The rest you should be able to gather from reading the image.

>>11347987
chill the fuck out

that pic is reactionary af and shit like that doesn't fly in real leftist circles. racial and national oppression, gender oppression and cissexism, the oppression of queer people, of people with disabilities ect. are in no way less material than class exploitation. They are all grounded in material social relations.

Idpol should rightly be criticized, but the purpose of this criticism should be to show activists engaged in these movements working within liberal ideological frameworks that those frameworks are ultimately inadequate to the successful pursuit of those struggles, not that the struggles themselves are unimportant.

>>11348034
If you think that pic is reactionary I think you miss the point a little... otherwise I agree with you. The picture isn't to dismiss these struggles, but to say that making them your sole platform, again, detracts and distracts from the core issue from which all oppression, etc extends. Reactionary shit doesn't fly in leftist circles, of course, and I myself participate in memorial marches for those slain by cops, 15NOW marches, lgtbq protests... but if we really want to see a united left in our lifetimes, then we need to focus on bringing them under a common banner that addresses ALL of these issues.

Again, comrade, I ultimately agree with you

>>11347777
all black. turtleneck and blazer combo will be your uniform

>>11348034
i dont think its saying that its unimportant just that idpol is breaking apart the unity of the oppressed and preventing eventual revolution

>>11348080
Good to hear comrade, I might've overreacted a bit I just got the wrong impression. Now that I think about it if there's anything that would open up 4chan to leftist thought it's gonna be a message like that.

>>11348083
true, but making fun of someone saying "learn my pronouns!" and then comparing them to a white supremacist is not exactly sympathetic to the trans struggle

>>11348104
i agree but it isn't really making fun of those reasonable types but the extremists on idpol and pol who base everything on race/gender/sexuality hence how they look like. but then again this is a leftypol meme

>>11348095
Exactly why I posted that particular pic, primarily because of the context of a forum dominated by nationalist idpol idiots.

>>11348132
yeah I figured that after I made that post lmao, forgot where I was for a sec

since there are a lot of leftists in this thread on /fa/, what do you guys do for a living and what brands do you buy given your leftist leanings?

>>11348165
>what do you guys do for a living
work
>what brands do you buy given your leftist leanings
any brand

>>11348165
carhartt

Kill yourself.

Can't you just join a fraternity and gain the same sort of comradery and brotherhood without having to try and fit in?
Fraternities aren't as exclusive and across the board as media portrays them to be.

>>11348210
You first faggot

>>11347777
Earth tones + gray scale and no ostentatious brand names/logos

>>11347795
>communists
>knowing anything about history, political theory, or economics

HAHAHAHA

>>11348237
You seem upset :(

>>11348028
the second reply is scary true even in /pol/
I know there are some people who are get paid to derail and push topics down and the pay is usually $5-8 per post depending on how good they got people's attention. Pic related. Even they agree /pol/'s worst bane is that they love talking about blacks and sjws too much while the interesting topic slides down the drain.

>young communists


Let me guess you're an American teen that thinks Communism is cool and edgy.

Neck yourself.

>>11348237
To be fair we tend to know more than the Capitalist who just assumes he knows.

The amount of lefties in this thread has made my evening.

Keep it up comrades.

>>11348312
Identity politics at its finest

Funny, you're literally describing /pol/ if your replace communism with NatSoc

>>11348237
keep living in idealistic fantasyland friendo

>>11348312
>he thinks sanders has even a remote connection to socialism

he's a filthy liberal

>>11348416
We have to assess America in terms of how much Sanders has tapped into class consciousness, now he's no Eugene Debs but he's definitely set the wheels in motion if you get me. I mean, 50 years ago this just wouldn't have been possible. It's a step forward rather than necessarily in the right direction.

i understand liking the idea but someone in this thread delineate practical policy that would allow the functionality of a system of communism that doesn't preclude physical reality

>>11348451
and i mean governed through whatever means whether state or otherwise

No one cares what you're wearing. Spend your time and money on reading if you want to fit in

>>11348503
this really

you'll be better off without /fa/ in the long run I think.

>>11348237
ECONOMIC ILLITERATE

>>11348312
>cool and edgy
>neck yourself

>>11348451
can you phrase this in another way

>>11348526
how do you make communism work

>>11348531
Read Marx/Lenin/Bakunin/Luxemburg/etc

>>11348451
>what is postscarcity

>>11348434
Oh he's definitely set people on the right path. I'm just using hyperbole considering where we are and how /pol/ thinks he's an actual communist

>>11348538
this

>>11347777
Kill yourself

>>11347795
You do realize most actual working class folk (at least in America) are totally class cucked?

>not being an ancap

kys my man

>>11348819
lmao, nice contradictory ideology there

I'm in a Marxist organization myself. Most people dress however they fucking want. We have some hipsters, some yuppie-lawyer types, university professors, dude bros, working class dudes, needs, etc. Just wear whatever the fuck you want to. No one will give a shit.

But I would recommend staying away from SA, they will end up just supporting the Democratic Party in the long run, like most American leftist groups. And the SPUSA is virtually dead.

>>11348839
contradictory? LMAO

please explain, if you can do that successfully i'll send you 100$ through paypal

>>11348874
if anarchism is against hierarchy, and capitalism is inherently hierarchical, then what are you

>>11348819
who protects your precious property rights when there's no government?

>>11348925
Not that guy, I'm a Marxist actually, but the problem with capitalism isn't that it's hierarchical

watch Godard's film "La Chinoise" and dress like the characters do

full rick

>>11347959
cringe

This thread needs to be deleted.

>>11348165
Maintenance technician, and I buy shit I can afford that is less likely to/will more slowly give me cancer

>>11348786
No shit, but in most orgs I've been to it's working class folk.

>>11348210
>>11348237
>>11348312
>>11348647
>>11348819
>>11349119
What's it like being cuckolded by the ruling elite?

>>11348855
What Marxist Org are you part of then, comrade?

And they don't support the Dems, it's what is often referred to as "entryism" and a mean of recruiting some more "class-conscious" layers of the party. Sanders is a first for them, they have always supported the Green party come election time. In fact, they have their own city councilor in Seattle, as part of their independent party. If you're living in SF, LA, NY you can viturally thank her for your min wage increase

>>11349030
That's not what I'm saying, hierarchy is what makes capitalism incompatible with anarchy

>>11348874
Anarcho-capitalism is not anarchy because in Anarcho-capitalism you still have leadership in the form of individuals who control the most capital and whom others are dependent on for livelihood.

>>11349239
Ignore the edgy part of this meme, rothbard actually said this

>>11349286
>arguing with someone that identifies as an ancap
>arguing with someone that identifies as a communist

Just accept that they're retarded and move on. Stop wasting your time and energy.

>>11349300
I doubt you understand even the basics of marxism

>>11349311
>you don't understand it, or you'd accept it!
not an argument

>>11349316
what's your argument against it

you can't refute something you don't understand

>>11349300
>>>11349286
>>arguing with someone that identifies as an ancap
>>arguing with someone that identifies as a communist
>Just accept that they're retarded and move on. Stop wasting your time and energy.
>>11349333

>>11349348
ill be laughing when ur bourgeois ass gets sent to the gulag senpai

>>11348786
>class cucked
I really like that term. Very on point. Thanks anon

>>11347777
Buy some legitimate com org made clothing. Try serve the people or something

>>11349176
>What's it like being cuckolded by the ruling elite?
Communism is a system that will quickly develop the biggest, the richest and most oppressive ruling elite you retard.

There is only one solution for communism and communist retards like OP
>>11348210

Move to Venezuela instead of spreading that filth here

go offer yourself to be penetrated in public since it's obvious that your ass belongs to the state
also i cant believe how many astro turfing socialist are here

>>11348034
Trans is a mental illness. Science should be attempting to battle gender dysphoria itself, not hunour it with cosplay surgery. (That still leaves incredibly depressed individuals who battle with never being truly accepted as their gender since they often live in the uncanny valley as far as appearances go)

Non-binary is even worse, Gender roles are manipulated by capitalism sure, but its foolish to deny the inherent biological factors influencing masc and fem regardless of idnvididual cultures and their differences. Our modern quasi-state of gender role breakdown is worse off than pre-feminist functioning family unit. Furthermore, that shit FURTHERED capitalism by nearly doubling the workforce and thus lowering the value of the other workers immensely. (Supply and demand).

Homophobia is a problem however, and we need gays adopting all the unwanted lost kids.

>>11347777
Always wear a suit if you are discussing politics, however this is probably some liberal tumblresque american organization so fuck you

t./pol/ack

>>11349549
for every socialist on this board there's 7 edgy natsoc kids actually making thread to play nazi dress up

>>11349537
nice argument classcuck

>>11349549
the end goal of communism is a classless, stateless society. you look like a fucking idiot when you don't know what you're talking about desu

>>11349609
just embarrassing, mentally cuckolded into a delusion by those who hold the majority of power and wealth.

>>11349540
fuck off fag

>>11348855
SPUSA dead? better do your homework senpai, cuz they're one of the largest, most active left groups in the US. don't be so divisive, cuz it's eerily COINTELPRO-esque

>>11347777
>communists
L E L
E
L
why is communism so funny?

>>11349750
to add
don't even try to call me a cuck of the ruling elite I am anticapitalist but I aint no commie

Comuni never worked they killed over 100 million people rapes tortured op is edgy I just this socialism or communism never works back to Puerto Rico op

wear a wig and speedos

>>11349756
let's hear what you are so we can laugh at it then

Socialism should NOT work because social equality is fucking boring, only poorfags want it to happen, mostly out of spite.

>>11349799
Puerto Rico is actually the perfect example. Let's compare it to Cuba. The US has had control of PR for well over 100 years (since 1898) and it's a basket case. It is bankrupt with over $80 billion in debt, a poverty rate at over over 45%, and real unemployment rate over 20%. Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate and a longer life expectancy that does PR. In fact Cuba, which has been embargoed by the US for over 50 years, has social indicators on par with the world’s most developed nations in categories such as literacy, infant mortality, life expectancy, healthcare quality and coverage, and educational access. On the other hand PR lags far behind even though it has the great American capitalist economic model to emulate. Please tell me which system is better for its people?

>>11348165
Work 3 part time jobs and study

>>11349682
I live in a major American city and the spusa has less than half a dozen active members. Some friends of mine went to their national convention in Milwaukee last year and it was really tiny

>>11348237
do you think that Hobsbawm knew nothing about history, Lenin and Gramsci about political theory and Marx about economics?
dude freedom lmao

>>11349540
The venezuelan economy is being sabotaged by right-wing private parties who want to seize power. They are stockpiling necessary commodities like food, toilet paper, medicine, etc. in warehouses in order to create artificial scarcity and destroy the economy/working people's lives. The united states is pumping significant monetary and logistical support into right wing counter-revolutionary parties and has tried to launch several unsuccessful coups.
Anybody who tells you its because of "oil" or " freedom" isn't paying attention to the Venezuelan crisis beyond corporate propaganda sources in America.

>>11349756
>>>11349750
>to add
>I am anticapitalist but I aint no commie
>>11349999
You lack of basic reading comprehension

>>11350017
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Everyone look at this brainwashed communist

Please move in with your comrades at Venezuela or Cuba

>>11350038
lmao nope, the only one brainwashed here is you

>>11350017
or it's that there's real scarcity because too many people aren't working or are working but have incentive to not report to the government and resources are being drained

>>11348855
SA are advocating for Sanders to run third party.

Who do you think we are? CPUSA?

>>11348538
i've got a general idea of the concept but unfamiliar with the details of the works.
regarding the "preclude physical reality" bit, do any of them address the possibility that inequality is inherent? this is less of a gripe with communism and more so that the purported system doesn't seem to consider that equal opportunity might be impossible. human behaviour isn't just a product of environment, an example of which is the 60-80% heritability of intelligence. to correct for this would require some form of elimination of the individual, something such as eugenics or authoritarian policing.
if you posit these things, how could you conceivably avoid corruption of the system. inequality and the subsequent formation of hierarchy seem to be inevitabilities unless corrected for through morally questionable practice.

>>11348557
how would post-scarcity exempt the existence of a social hierarchy? saying post-scarcity would make communism work is tautology and implies that communism would be infallible. that is if the large whole of society wouldn't become unnecessary with the advent of said technology.

>>11347777
>believing in any political bullshit living under another person laws and dictum
Left or right, they're both shit, at the end it always corrupt for the ones with more power.

>>11350017
socialism is pure shit, the actual useful people in venezuela are dying for move to another country. Believe me, i lived under socialism 12 years, im from Argentina and is pure corrupt trash for only the ones on the goverment side.

You should join a nationalist organization if you're looking for camaraderie and fashion.

>>11350088
yeah except that's not what's happening

commie inspo

>>11350468

>>11350288
Socialism is literally a transitory period towards anarchy. Farther left on the political spectrum means more socialised Control and less hierachy Communism itself, by definition, has no state, and all private property is socialised. Communism is a form of Anarchy, which is why Anarchy typically appears after communism (as a "true communist" society would in its final stages be an anarchy)

>>11350475

>>11350485

>>11350494

>>11350498

>>11350503

>>11350505

>>11350315
fuck off fash scum

lol kill urself nigger

>>11350510

>>11350315
this.

>>11350523

>>11350533

>>11350544

>>11350549

>>11350315
Back to your cancer cave >>>/pol/

>>11349540
>Venezuela is even Socialist
PMSL

seriously though, why are /pol/ friends so unintelligent? Most of them dont even understand their own ideology and just shitpost identity politics all day

>>11350608
you'll rarely find a capitalist that has a thorough understanding of capitalism

>>11347777
Pretty cringeworthy movement, communism and Democratic socialism only appeal to young teens or first year college kids who lack a political awareness


It just sounds right to them because they have no basis in belief

So it sounds like what Hilary Clinton says and people tell me good job for standing up to women's rights and being smug gets me praise so yay I'll be that!


Federalist papers are where the founding fathers state why they wrote things in this manner quoting the great minds who came before them.


You don't understand that screaming revolution is something the Father's wanted you to do, they wanted you to arm yourselves and kill your fellow countrymen every 20 years because it was argued that every generation is a step further away from Locke's natural law.


Once you read John Locke you see through Hilary Clinton, funded by big established banks, who want total control

You see why Clinton is anti 2a and "guns are only for hunting"rhetoric


Its all outlined in the Federalist papers

>>11350872
The entire premise of the American revolution was really quite absurd. The taxation argument is nil; Americans were being taxed at lower rates than mainland citizens and received extensive support from Britain. The revolutionaries were a small minority of tax-dodgers and idealogues who had to go and fuck things up for everybody.

>>11350904
That's the lazy attitude. That turned a political movement into a drug peddling ring in Ireland

>>11350872
>shillary
>having anything to do with communism
wanna know how i know that you have no idea of what you're talking about
>That's the lazy attitude
this coming from an eddie huang looking lardass ricenigger

>>11347777
>I just joined a political organisation for young communists.
Do us all a favor by aquiring a firearm, loading it, cocking it, aiming the barrel at your eye and pulling the trigger.

>How should i dress to fit in?
Preferably in a suit. If the ceremony is closed casket, wear whatever you want.

>>11351152
>ancap is a darknedgy autist
who would have thought

>>11351152
Thanks for the advice comrade, only through armed struggle can we establish the dictatorship of the proletariat

>>11347777
With those 7s you have to join the AWB!

>>11347795
>implying the latter exists
Nice meme

>>11349564
>gays adopting kids
>good
Kill yourself my man

>>11351312
>implying /pol/ has any grasp on theory and history
nice delusions

>>11351346
When did I say that?

I will destroy Communism.

>>11350293
>Argentina
>having ever been socialist
Pick one

>>11350315
lmao get a clue

>>11350872
>mfw the majority of my org are 35yr old + working class stiffs tired of getting fucked over and watching the planet be turned into a trash heap
get a fucking grip on reality mate. leave your cave sometime. you sound like someone who has never left the country you were born in. embarrassing

>>11351152
hahahaha I bet your fat shill ass is gonna be wheezing and coughing when you're caught and put up against the wall

>>11351550
Okay I laughed

>>11351699
I've seen the exact same image on Ironmarch but with Right wing authors and theorists instead. Funny how the more we disagree, the more we agree?

>>11350133
Midwest SA comrade here. Which region do you hail from?

>>11350013
Interesting, from what I've heard their West Coast section is fair sized. Their VP candidate this year is from Milwaukee too. If you're looking for an org in the Midwest, SA has a sizable branches in Chicago, St. Louis, and Madison. They don't support the Democratic Party, a lot of naysayers have never read any of their lit or even attended one meeting and throw around misinfo. I'm not really a trot desu, but they're a reasonable left org

>>11351701
Leftist Organizations used to be highly educated, organized and armed before the US gov't put an end to that heavily starting in the 60s. Most Rightist Organizations were let be because they aren't usually seen as a threat to the dominant power structures. Usually the ruling class only lets the Right take the reigns when on the verge of collapse from Left pressure during revolution, as a last vestige to keep the money and power flowing to the minority

see: Nazi Germany, fascist Italy, Chile after the coup, Honduras now, etc etc etc

>>11351735
The American right is one massive honeypot anyway, though nearly all far-right organisations are honeypots.

why are communists so fucking retarded

you guys realize that the definition of an ideology means absolutely nothing right? What matters is practice, not theory. Feminism for example, has a fair definition, but in reality is a cancer in society. The same goes with communism. A "stateless, classless society" sounds great and all, but do you REALLY believe that? It's just a cover up for the extremely authoritarian socialists plotting to kill everyone and take all the resources for themselves.

>>11348925
>>11349239
>>11348935
>>11348839
>>11349199

>being an economic illiterate

I think you guys are confused

>>11347777
i saw a commie yesterday

soviet army cap with a cuban flag patch
"mcshits" t shirt
ratty old hoodie
nasty old dad jeans
stinky runners

45 years old with a saggy beer gut from wasting all his food stamps on pabst and bulk pasta

its really sad to see a commie in real life, theyre just complete losers every time. sad, sorry people with nothing else to turn to. have you ever seen a communist in a car made in the last 30 years? have you ever seen a communist that looked at all presentable? have you ever seen a communist that looked like he had more than 200$ in his savings account (and had worked for it)? youd almost feel bad for them if they werent so fucking obnoxious.

>>11351807
you sound like an insufferably thick fucker

>>11351790

I bet you think you're more of an expert on the subject than those who have written/read hundreds of communist works, huh?

>>11351807

Let's see what you look like.

... That's what I thought.

>>11348210

this tbqh

>mfw central planning will NEVER EVER work

>>11351807
can you not suffocate from having your head jammed that far up your ass?

>>11352154

Competitive Capitalist here

come at me turbofag

>>11352147
>>11352154
>>11352160
Not an argument

>>11352186

>Posts an ad hominem
>Gets an ad hominem in response
>triggered

Are you retarded?

>>11349311
Every Commie in this thread keeps claiming that they know so much yet won't even reference the documents they claim to be so well versed in. If you are truly confident in your ideology, you should be able to explain without referencing the words of others. I simply don't agree with communism because I believe in the law of nature. Nature is made of hierarchies, if you aren't willing to accept that, then you need to grow up. Now you can all claim I'm cucked by the elites, but you're just creating a strawman to project your envy upon. To have a classless, homogenous society is to be completely detached from nature and how we function as animals.

>>11352273
Sorry for my grammar by the way. I'm incredibly tired and hope I didn't come off as too argumentative. I absolutely despise communism yet I believe everyone deserves to be heard, unlike the edgy natsoc kiddies.

>>11352273
>>11352289

i find appeals to nature basically meaningless because there is no such thing as "un-natural behavior". all behavior is natural. humans are inherently natural, and all of their varied actions are natural. there is nothing observable in the entire universe that isn't part of nature.

to say that something is natural is to merely say that it exists.

>>11352323
The world is inherently dog eat dog, to have the majority of your income go to anyone other than your family is completely unnatural in any other species. Obviously community is necessary, but contribution is out of the good of your own heart or respect and not something that should be enforced by government.

>>11352323
>>11352323
The world is inherently dog eat dog. Obviously community is necessary, but contribution is out of the good of your own heart or respect and not something that should be enforced by government. If the ruling class enforces these exorbitant taxes, the people contribute out of fear. Essentially, you end up at square one and become everything you hope to escape. Communism is an open portal to corruption. If government is kept small with less tax revenue flowing through there will obviously less of a reason for corruption.

>>11352370

Um, okay?

I entered this discussion here: >>11352323
to counter your use of the word "natural"

I don't care about your views on government, my post has nothing to do with your views on government (but is instead concerned with the method you are using to support them), and I don't understand why you're replying to a post about the definition of nature with political ideology.

You: I think x because nature
Me: I don't think nature means what you think it means
You: Yeah but government should be small, am I right?

Do you see how your second reply is a non-sequitur? Literally does not follow.

>>11352234
You're not responding to the person you think you're responding to.

>>11352538
I will admit, I got severely off track but you can see what I meant in the beginning of the reply. What I said about the government interacting with people does connect back to my application of the law of nature. Competition is present in nature and isn't in communism.

>>11352592

collectivism is also present in nature, and for the sake of argument i will put aside examples of human collectivism.

ant colonies, bonobo chimpanzees, etc. all have collective societies.

point being it's not good form to cherry-pick what exists in nature. is there ruthless competition in nature? yes. is there fraternal compassion in nature? yes. these phenomena exist simultaneously. sharks attack people and dolphins help drowning swimmers back to shore. neither one of those events alone defines "nature". they're both natural.

to try to define nature by solely either is reductionist and ignorant of the vast and various types of activity that exist within nature.

>>11352616
While I may be guilty of cherry picking, failure to comply in your examples of collectivism don't result in imprisonment.

>>11350476
Thank you.

>>11348237
I literally graduated with a degree in political science and economics.

>>11348874
Capitalism is dependent on freedoms, freedom of information, freedom to buy and sell as you please. These freedoms have to be maintained at least some minimal form of state. For example, individual firms have incentive to monopolise a market, this contrary to capitalist principles of allowing competition to ensure efficiency. To prevent firms from obtaining a monopoly and therefore distorting the market the state must have powers to ensure there are enough participants in a market to ensure competition. The market isn't something that can just exist independently in nature, it needs a regulatory structure to ensure proper functioning.

>>11350017
I used to like Chavez, but you can just impose those kinds of sweeping restrictions on the market and expect things to not become distorted. There are ways to be a socialist that work with market principles, but you can't just make the invisible hand do what you want by decree.

>>11352616
>ant colonies, bonobo chimpanzees, etc. all have collective societies.

now compare their civilizations to ours

>>11350017
lmao what the fuck happened to /fa/

>>11350017

>artificial scarcity being caused by anything other than central planning

>>11352323
kek i love appeals to nature. it's an outcome of society as a whole still subscribing to a religious belief in anthropocentrism.

>>11350387
well then give me the details on your boogeyman

>>11352942

>communists take over
>opportunities for private advancement destroyed
>incentives to work erode
>everyone works at a subsistence level
>suddenly scarcity

it's not complicated

>>11352982
thats pretty much what i said

>>11351699
>talking about plato's allegory of the cave with relation to capitalism
ayy fellow /leftypol/ user

>>11351790
except it does work in practice, that's the point

learn to dialectical materialism

>>11353048
zizek is shit m8

>>11352942

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/03/venezuela-maduro-us-executive-order/
http://imgur.com/a/RluPo
https://anticap.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/venezuela-key-indicators-009.jpg
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/latin-america-wikileaks-hugo-chavez-rafael-correa-obama-venezuela-intervention/
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Extreme-Poverty-in-Venezuela-Drops-to-4.5-20150728-0011.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-economy-idUSKCN0ID00A20141024?irpc=932

>>11347795
>implying identity politics isn't a marxist political tool to create divisiveness among the bourgeoisie and make them weaker
>pretending like SJWs aren't the natural conclusion of Marxist ideology
>>11348210
this nigga has the right idea. You spineless lefty hypocrites using your momma's credit card to buy the latest bourgeois apparel can't admit that the snowflake weirdos on tumblr are the face of your movement. You're only attracted to the aesthetic; you want to be a radical that doesn't have to actually change anything about themselves to become a better person or even take effort to read some damn books to know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>11353467
>it's all a conspiracy to weaken the white race
>muh cultural Marxism
>DA JOOS

>>11348095
>>11348132
The only way to make any impact on /pol/tads with fingers in their ears is to literally play the same boogeyman tactic as them. Blame the American banker/hollywood Jews for creating the anti-communist sentiment and they'll come flocking.

>>11353498
I really can't believe I used to buy into that bullshit

>>11353503
Some of the time I'm not sure if they're just contrarian shitposters or genuinely buy into some of the more insane shit being sprouted.

Since this is now a lefty thread, just posted this to /pol/ where I won't get any proper discussion so:
It is pretty likely that within the next few 100 years, most, if not all jobs will be replaced by automation and we will move to a non-resource scarce society. What should our society be like then?
How will Capital owners make a profit is there is no income for the people to spend so will Marx's ideal society finally be reached?

>>11350017

> be Venezuelan
> Have one of the largest single deposits of oil in the world
> In all my infinite beaurocratic wisdom I decide that we'll produce electricity solely through hydro-dams. Those other methods are a waste, superior communist central planning!
> Have water shortage
> Don't have enough electricity to produce oil, let alone supply the electrical grid.
> THE GLORIOUS"PRESIDENT" HAS DECIDED ON A TWO DAY WORK WEEK! [Citation] there isn't enough power otherwise
> Subsidise food and enforce strict price controls like any good centralist!
> People start using a black market and selling subsidised goods in other countries for a profit... hmmm, why won't people work like i want them to work!!!!
> Welcome to Communism

>>11352273
>>11352323
entartet - degenerate, which would be the opposite of natural behaviour is a phrase that got coined by Hitler and should be avoided. The worldview that (some kind of) human achieved a higher level of existens is implied with this.

>>11353534
You're probably better off asking that on /leftypol/ instead of /pol/

>>11347795
>Communist
>buys expensive branded techwear meme products

B A S E D N A
A
S
E
D

N
A

>>11353534
population decline until it becomes sustainable, this is already happening in japan and it scares the shit out globalists because their infinite growth model is going to be destroyed over the next 40 years as japan automates it's menial jobs and it's population shrinks. its why you have idiots in the UN trying to tell japan to take immigrants, and talking about their negative birth rate like it's going to spell disaster for the country but, luckily japan has managed to not be influenced too much by globalists and stayed isolationist so they might make it out of this ok

>workers

you lanky wristed fucks, you're not the working class that propagated or inspired these philosophies, you're just emulating an intelligible ideology because you covet wall street's wealth.

You have a right to be angry, world's getting confusing for a generation born into technological comfort, but the lack of real world experience is too apparent for any of your arguments to be felt, so why do you all type so damn much?

>>11347777

like a Bolshevik jew

>>11353973
nice idpol

>>11348245
>he's laughing
>you seem upset xddd
the undeniable proof that commieshits are actually retarded

>>11354560
what ideology do you subscribe to senpai

>>11347951
>>11348210
>>11348237
>>11348312
>>11348819
>>11349119
>>11349537
>>11349540
>>11349549
>>11349564
>>11349750
>>11350004
>>11350038
>>11350288
>>11350293
>>11350315
>>11350518
>>11350872
>>11351152
>>11351312
>>11351701
>>11351790
>>11351807
>>11352158
>>11352178
>>11352273
>>11352289
>>11352370
>>11352920
>>11353467

>>11354776 (You)

>>11354776
You're more likely to be a fedoralord with your edgy ideology

why can't everyone just be a libertarian and fuck off from one another? everyone just gets assblasted over moral superiority. it's literally none of your business from a political standpoint. live and let live, keep your rights and personal freedoms.

>>11354814

did this guy really write a concentration camp serial number on his arm with a fucking sharpie?

>>11354821
this

>communists
>effay

>>11354821
Libertarianism is definetely most effay

it's amazing to me the amount of bullshit you have to believe to be a communist
hope you enjoy all your hopes and dreams being crushed over the next decade as right wing parties continue to surge while left wing parties get taken over by Islamists
you spit on the working class anyway

>>11354821
Libertarianism is the philosophy of maximizing autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgment. This is contradictory to the terms by which Capitalist society organizes.

You will eventually concede to five, fundamental facts: (1) capitalists are the minority; laborers are the majority, (2) capitalists own land and use said land to employ laborers, who are landless, (3) capitalists and laborers, thus, interact with one another (hence, private property as a social relationship), (4) the laborer takes part in this interaction and sells their labor in order to survive (thus is coerced by material conditions), (5) the laborer creates wealth for the capitalist.

That's capitalism, in its purest form. Forget historical factors, the transition from feudalism, primitive accumulation, chattel slavery as a precursor, imperialism, colonialism, racism, world-systems theory, neoliberalism, monopoly capitalism, etc - all derivative ills and supplemental analyses that I could elaborate on, but I won't. Let's keep it simple. This is the most fundamental mechanism of capitalism.

After conceding these facts, you may try to justify them with a meritocratic, winner-loser narrative where "everyone has opportunity," and try to portray labor as a choice, or when all else fails, maybe go with TINA.

You can call on Rothbard, Mises, Hayek, Friedman, and the whole lot of them, or whip out credentials and regurgitate the narrow parameters of mainstream economics.

When all is said and done, these facts still remain. And they are not consistent with liberty, freedom and democracy, despite what our school textbooks told us.

>>11354913
Libertarianism is the fedora of political philosophies

>>11354949
tips fedora

>>11354949
>DA MOOSLIMS!!

What do you know about class struggle

>>11354964
you have not said anything

>>11354979
I'm graduating with a Political Economy degree soon so probably more than you

>>11354985
goes to show how shit political economy degrees are

>>11354985
That proves nothing most econ departments only teach within a capitalist paradigm

>>11354989
>we're gonna rise up any day now
you've been saying this for 150 years while in the space of 5 years the European New Right has proven itself more prone to revolution than any 1st world leftist organisation
capital comes closer to Exit by the day while labour spirals towards irrelevancy

>>11354992
>not knowing the difference between Political Economy and Economics
jfc

>>11354979
How is he wrong? Labour is no longer the voice for the working class. Migrants are being rehoused, have access to social housing ahead of the indigenous, white population. These families are being pushed to the bottom whilst they should be first priority. They wait years on council housing waiting lists whilst Somalians and Arabs, mainly Muslims somehow jump the queue. This is happening across major English cities. London. Birmingham. Bradford. Look at how many Muslims are the heads of London councils.

>>11354776

Le Ad hominem XD

Why don't you crawl back to the sewer you came from you bottom feeding loser.

>>11355002
The European New Right hasn't done shit meanwhile there are multiple actually existing socialist countries

>>11355021
More identity politics meant to divide the working class. You'll never be capable of sustaining a movement like that

>>11355021
>WAAAAH White people have it so bad
Shut up sheltered little whiteboi

>>11355047
yeah like Venezuela lmao
it's a meaningless argument, the future is the future and it's one of savage inequality

>>11355065
Not an argument rasheed

>>11355066
The generally agreed upon actually existing socialist countries are Cuba, China, Vietnam, and the DPRK. Venezuela has not undergone a socialist revolution yet

>>11355108
>China
>socialist
>Venezuela
>not having a revolution
are you stuck in the 1970s or smth

Like this.

>>11355124
The leader of China is a straight up MLM

>>11355050
What are you saying? That the working class aren't divided?

>>11355137
he's a Machiavellian state capitalist
as someone deeply right wing I admire China and see it as a model

>>11355143
lmao you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about

>>11355149
show me any evidence of Xi Jinping actually engaging in Marxism
not calling himself a Marxist, but actually enacting Marxist policies

>>11354776
OH good one pal. You sure proved a point and effectively shut me down. Having conservative libertarian ideals does not make me one of those stereotypes. I just as easily could have compared you to a typical tumblrina. Did I? No, I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Fuck off with your shifty identity politics.

Let's get this bum into office.

>he isn't a right accelerationist
who /alienatedandlovingit/ here
who /mouthbreathingmachiavelli/ here
who /exit/ here

Why make a thread when the answer is so simple? Wear a noose

>>11349176
>Implying I'm not the 1%
>implying you're not the one being cucked persuing meaningless ideologies

>>11348404
>you're not a communist
>you must browse /pol/

Kys my dude

Funny how the communists on this thread are making actual arguments while the capitalists rely on identity politics and ad hominem attacks. Way to represent your ideology. Don't waste your time on them comrades

>>11355227
lel - the only argument I've seen is literally "Identity politcs = bad, now let's enforce an authoritarian state!"

>>11355212
nickland is a nonsensical pretentious edgelord
actually try to evaluate his statements one by one
his writing has no worth

>>11355227
there have been no arguments
not that there's any point, we know how deluded you are and the only thing that will make you realise that is the crushing weight of Gnon
I think you should be free to have your own little parcel of land to ruin, just don't force me to live with you freaks

>>11347795
>Identity politics
It is embarrassing when people use the term "identity politics" disparagingly. Anyone who does it is a huge faggot.
People care about groups of people. A white nationalist cares about whites. A marxist cares about workers, or, ALL HUMANS. Human is still an identity. You still advocate for a group. Contrast it to someone who values all animals equally.

>>11348028
til 1 million somalians flood in lmao

>>11348028
>you are buying into the game of distraction that the ruling elite want you to buy.
how can someone be so detached from reality?
the ruling elite are against white nationalism, and are for flooding white countries with nonwhites

the US Dems + friends
most of the GOP + friends (eg National Review)
Nicolos Sarkozy called for "metissage obligatorie" - mandatory miscegenation
the pope runs around kissing Muslim feet and signaling against Trump
HuffPo celebrating the fact that whites will become a minority

in the United States it is typical for firms to announce that they are either beginning to go out of their way to find non-White employees, improving upon their previous attempts to find non-White employees, or that they are proud of the success of their previous attempt to find non-White employees. Any time a firm talks about increasing "diversity" in a workplace they are functionally talking about decreasing the proportion of their employees that are white. Examples of this are easy to come by. It took me about 5 minutes to find pages implicating Google, Facebook, Apple, Walmart, McDonald's, and Microsoft in such attempts. In fact, I know of few major corporations that do not have some sort of "diversity" policy in place.

was marx joking when he said he wanted to get rid of families? Like would you literally not live with your parents in a house anymore?

>>11355237
sounds like you're too stupid to understand him tbqh

Communism can't work in large, multicultural societies. People will always base others on the colour of their skin. You're deluded if you think otherwise.

>>11355252
tell me what there is to understand about him

>>11355266
quite a bit and I don't want to explain it all now because it's 5:30 am and I'm writing an essay
just accelerate it

>>11355232
So what youre scared of is "authoritarianism" huh. I think the really important question, which we could use to address this issue, is this: how can there be no authority in society?

In order for this to happen, there would have to be no dominant aspect in any contradiction. Any dialectical materialist will tell you this is impossible. The only way to get rid of authority is to eliminate the basis for it, which requires some form of authority that fundamentally contradicts the authority that is currently dominant, to the point that the secondary authority becomes primary.

This is what the "withering away of the state" refers to; once socialism has been consolidated on a global scale through revolutionary communist authority, the basis for capitalist authority will be eliminated, and when that process is complete there will therefore be no basis for communist authority. The groups of armed revolutionaries that sought to eliminate capitalism will have no reason to exist as armed groups anymore, and in this sense "authoritarianism" will dissolve.

The problem with absolutist "anti-authoritarianism" is that its refusal to utilize revolutionary authority means that reactionary authority can continue to exist.

ITT: people that don't know how it is to live in a communist/ex-communist country

Communists and marxists are the only groups of people I hate with passion

>>11355291
What socialist country did you live in? Is this based off experience or American propaganda

>>11355304
Romania, the last country in Europe to revolt against communism

>>11355327
um it wasn't real communism because reasons (just like Venezuela and Cuba when it fails)

Communism is just forced equality for the state, why would you want to live in a communist country?

>>11355346
Because they know that they are not talented or ambitious enough to make it in any other system.

>>11355336
Yeah, basically every dirty red says the same thing
>we haven't tryed it fully yet
>it will work this time, trust us, the ones that barely finished high school
>etc

>>11355327
The romanian standard of living plunged because of surrounding imperialist powers, not because of Ceaușescu
>>11355346
You don't know what communism is

where did people go?
West Germany to East Germany
or
East Germany to West Germany

well, some went West to East
but most went East to West

http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=925

>>11355359
it's funny how they're held up as functioning communist states until they collapse at which point they become not real communism

>>11355362
why isn't commie forced equality for the state?

>>11355362
>not because of Ceausescu
Cine te-o invatat asa ceva?

Report all this thread. Not really discussing fashion.

>>11355363
Now if you aren't pinko scum you get called out for being /pol/? That sounds like a pretty bad view of politics.

>>11355421
This is /fa/ you dont discuss politcs here moron... Go to /pol/ dumbass.

>>11353973
>because youre not part of a group that is being oppressed means that you can never support them from getting out of their struggles
rock solid logic there

>>11354814
Fuck this tankie

>>11355189
>unironically being lolbertarian
Nice contradictory beliefs there m8

>>11354838
Those are delusional tankie fucks

>>11354981
>im too lazy or dumb to read so let me just say that you didn't say anything

>>11355253
hahahahahaha. read some basic marxist texts bro

>>11355459
Go read the rules of 4chan. Final warning or you will have to enjoy 3 days off.

>>11350872
what the fuck are you talking about "locke's natural law"

locke wrote a whole fucking book on how and why we should get out of this "natural law", which is what the founding fathers based their ideas on

lol you actually haven't even read locke

>>11355374
I know multiple people who were actually old enough to understand what was going on at the time

>>11355475
Jesus Killy reread my post I am the opposite of /pol/. I'm only here to make them stop spouting their delusional beliefs and stop derailing these threads. OP asks what to wear for his/her communist party and /pol/ derails it once again with their shitty ideas. I'm on the side of OP.

>>11355492
Da, probabili securisti
>ne merge rau din cauza imperialistilor

De parca Ceausescu nu o strans din buci sa plateasca 10 mil la FMI. Si prins strans din buci ma refer la taiat curentu' si apa calda cand ti-era lumea mai draga, pe langa faptul ca mai cresteam si 'canepa' pentru export.

Google translte won't help you too much, so I'll just say that communism in Romania is too complicated for few of your friends to tell you everything. You probably think that that hungarian guy from Timisoara started the revolution. Learn history from an actual unbiased history teacher.

>>11355475
Fucking hell killy's become a meglomaniac

>>11355381

>>11355547
ceausescu as an individual is obviously a separate issue to SR romania as a whole but the two are linked and i'll try to capture the careful balance in my response

first of all, the roots of romania's nationalist deviation began before ceausescu became leader - during the 1950s, it was with policies w/r/t industrialization and building connections w/ western capitalist countries in doing so, as well as telling the CMEA where they could shove the proposal for an integrated economic zone crossing the ussr, romania and bulgaria as a prelude toward further inter-state planning in the east. ofc the crescendo of this policy was 1968 when romania opposed the soviet intervention in czechoslovakia and grew closer to china (a policy which brought about punitive soviet cutbacks in economic assistance and aid to romania and thus put even more of a gulf between the two)

economically romania's strategy in this period was a peculiar mix of stalin style heavy-industry-first construction combined with a heavy degree of foreign trade, a combination which was very conducive to romania's economic growth and made it a powerhouse in terms of manufacturing in the 1970s. unlike poland and hungary which were borrowing IMF money from quite early on, romania's debt was actually acquired almost entirely from 1979-1981 when the oil crisis finally begin to hit them - romania's good relations with shahist iran meant the earlier oil crisis had largely been weathered, but the iranian revolution put paid to that.

>>11355602

really you have to look for the roots of romania's policies to a large degree also in class terms, and the romanian communist party was even more a cobbled together mix of differing elements than many of the other parties in e. europe, including former iron guard in the lower ranks. the rcp was much less strongly a proletarian party than its neighbours and this played an interesting part in formulating its nationalism and centrism when it came to foreign policy.

ceausescu himself went beyond khrushchev and said not only that the dictatorship of the proletariat had been "surpassed", but that it was completely obsolete and thus not needed in any country. combined with romania's foreign policy, an extreme form of "peaceful co-existence" which almost completely sucked any content of class struggle or distinguishing between capitalism and socialism out of the rcp's analysis of the world, this led to a lot of the opportunism abroad that romania showed (i.e. its relations with israel)

but ultimately it was imperialism which forced austerity on romania, and ceausescu himself became a martyr when he died singing the internationale in front of a contra firing squad. for that and for the many achievements socialist romania did make during the time he was leader, he deserves respect imo.

>>11355518
You're discussing politics. NO ONE should argue about politics in this board, this board is about fashion. FASHION.

This isn't /b/ 2, it's not "anything goes". I want a clean /fa/, a /fa/ that is on topic, the /fa/ we are supposed to have but you all derailers fuck up. So suck it. I'm sick of this shit.

>>11355602
>>11355606

Some of this is right. But I've explained for short in my previous post how bad the people of Romania lived. The fact that Ceausescu did SOME good things is undenied, like the Danube-Black Sea channel along with the People's House in Bucharest, and that was basically it. You forgot to mention that Ceausescu would directly and personally dictate how workers should do their job, even if he was wrong. Everything that I mentioned above, the people's house and the channel had a huge cost that people of Romania had to support. I'll say it in English, people in Romania literally did not have enough bread/meat/anything that is consistent to eat, did not have electricity most of the day, did not have hot water for most part of the day. Because Ceasescu had to pay the 10 million debt to the FMI. You forgot to mention that Romania had to pay wagons of meat and bread to Russia. You don't know how it is to be hungry and to look at meat being put in wagons and sent overboard to 'mother' Russia. He was a martyr? He was a helper in a boot shop before communism rose, his wife was literally a neighbourhood bitch, she knew 0 chemistry, not to mention her illiterate speaches at the tv. You forgot to mention how in those heavily industrialized factories, the leader was most of the time a guy with 4 years of school. Ceausescu was shot like a dog, with his handa cuffed. He sang nothing.

>>11355653
You don't get my point you dumb fuck. Shitposters from /pol/ derail this thread and start spouting their shitty agenda. The only way for these shitposters to stop is to ban them (which obviously will not work) or make them see how shitty what they believe in is to stop shitposting.

>>11355715
I'll respond later hold up

>>11355953
>is shitposting in a shit posting thread
>advocates for banning shitposters
>doesn;t realize he's advocating to be banned himself

as yes the foresight of the typical communist in action

>>11356339
see
>which obviously will not work

>>11355198
w2c

>>11347777
nice quads

>>11354992
what the fuck? are you retarded?

Universities will go out of their fucking way to shove marxist garbage down your throat. Clearly you don't know this, so i take it that you only have a high school diploma kek

>>11355108
You have to be 18 to post here

>>11354985
Hahahaha, I did a conjoint degree in politics and economics. Political economy is required as part of the politics degree, believe me when I say your education is essentially incomplete.

>>11356761
Have you ever studied economics at university? Your point is pretty distorted but there's some truth in the idea that marxist theory is still pretty relevant in social science. Marx is not at all relevant in any kind of business, commerce, or finance degree.

>>11347777
/pol/ shills are really trying hard on this board

>young communists
as autistic as possible

>>11354814
except that....

>>11355475
lmao go back to posting akiracore or whatever, it's the only thing you're not shit at anyways

>>11353626
Capitalism: so much fucking bread, but nobody can afford shit

>>11355050
Working class is already divided. Go outside.

>>11357246
if nobody is buying the bread then a lowering of price or other incentive is introduced until people do buy it and production can be sustained and profit made. if at no price is bread being bought then it stops being produced and there isn't a market for bread.
a problem is artificially high pricing for profit with a necessity like bread where people are forced to pay the price. if that happens another option like crackers are introduced to the market at better prices. but the cracker industry artificially lowers the price of crackers so people will buy more crackers so the bread industry dies out and a dependency on crackers is created. now the cracker industry controls the market and can slowly increase the price of crackers, but if they increase the price too much either the bread industry reemerges or another alternative like cereal is introduced to meet demand.
these checks and balances are made null at the start by a state when they see that bread is being priced too high and things are introduced that fuck it all up. in our democracy politicians need votes and public approval so they look at short term factors that will get them elected and maintain approval throughout their term. meanwhile the market is sorting shit out but then the next politician steps up and rearranges things again. for a free market to function means smaller state power.

communism's got it's own can of worms.

>>11350016
this.

>>11353486
>It's all a conspiracy to weaken the working class
>muh consumerism
>DA BORJWAH

>>11357460
pretty much. it's also a practice of identity politics denouncing the "bourgeois" and supporting the "working class". the same shit, it's just got different chunks and textures.

>>11357525
Suprise suprise, its a dumb porkie. Please read: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-politics/#Iden.. Idpol largely deals with cultural or "biological" groups and not economic ones.

>>11356974
>tradyouth
The far-right is so embarrassing. Skinheads looked better than these tradical LARPers.

>>11347777
>communism
I feel disgust and I hope every commie will burn in hell like they deserve to.

>>11349176
>government is corrupt/abussive
>let's give the government full power and abandon any freedom
is this bait?

>>11358202
that's the spirit! have a burger!

>>11358209
>believes everybody is american
I am german and my parents are russian you filthy economically illiterate commie.

>>11348557
>believing post-scarcity will ever exist

HAHAHAHAHA

>>11358218
>i have no idea what real communism is but i feel that i can speak on the matter because my parents come from a former dictatorship that used faux communism as a guise for autocracy

like this

>>11358208
>corporations are inherently corrupt/abusive
>let's give them free reign to do literally whatever they want and abandon any and all sense of order/law, it's not like they ever try to screw over the general populace in order to make a cheap buck or anything
is this bait?

>>11358163
that's semantical usage. the concept still encompasses those things and the same criticism applied.

>>11358815
>muhh real communism
you seem to be historically and economically

https://youtu.be/g-o0kD9f6wo

>>11359313
illiterate*

>>11347777
like a bum, cause thats who they stand up for

>>11358873
>what is 'the wealth of nations' by adam smith
>what is a free market without government bail-outs
>what is bankruptcy
>what are laws
Btw this meme that wealth is acquired by stealing from 'poor people' that economically illiterate people like to entertain needs to die. If you won't stop talking about this shit then please educate yourself.

>>11359355
>>what is 'the wealth of nations' by adam smith
a book that was written in the seventeenth century, thus making it have no relevance whatsoever on modern economics/politics
a nation's system of governance must progress and evolve as time goes by and the nation developes
the only reason communism didn't work in russia is because it was and is a barren wasteland
capitalism is great for developing countries, but in the modern first world country scarcity should not be an issue
the us alone generates enough food to feed the entire world, but the only thing keeping that from happening is capitalism making it so that one must pay to eat, pay to drink, pay to move from place to place, and essentially pay to be alive

>>what is a free market without government bail-outs
fantasy

>what is bankruptcy
corporations fucking up and having to beg the government, and thus the citizen, for money

>what are laws
something that ancap ayn rand waifufaggots would do away with in order to able to exist without the "tyranny" of government, making sure that corporations don't ruin everything any more than they already have

>Btw this meme that wealth is acquired by stealing from 'poor people' that economically illiterate people like to entertain needs to die
a monkey tells two other monkey to go pick bananas for him, and if they bring him one hundred each, he'll let them keep five whole bananas each
this is fair, according to andrew ryan-wannabe cucks such as you

>>11360084
>the only reason communism didn't work in russia is because it was and is a barren wasteland

WEW LAD

also uh your cute analogy doesn't really apply to the modern world, but i imagine you;re just one of "seize the means of productions" types

>>11358815
>real communism
>MY BRAND OF COMMUNISM/MARXISM/SOCIALISM HASN'T BEEN TRIED

fuck off

>>11360084
>a book that was written in the seventeenth century, thus making it have no relevance whatsoever on modern economics/politics
Opinion discarded, underageb&

Seriously everything you wrote must be bait. This just can't be real, nobody is this stupid.

>>11360084
Wealth of Nations was written in the 18th century you dweeb, it's a foundational text of on classical liberalism and the origins of modern commercial society

>>11360084
arguably having to pay to be alive provides incentive to actually work and drive the progress of society. all of our behaviour can be derived from the same ones which cater to the necessity of survival. the behaviours which we engage in which don't directly benefit our survival are extensions with similarities.

corporations going bankrupt should be allowed to happen, state intervention is not the free market.

laws should exist to guide morality but not be definitive as morality. the same constitutional statutes which allow rebellion against the state should allow consumers to rebel against corporations engaging in extensive and willful violations of morality. this would be defined not by state law but the laws of the consumer.

continue this example, what incentive do those two monkeys have to not just keep the bananas they've picked if they felt the agreement was unjust. in our society those monkeys would be culpable in the regard of the state.

>>11360155
morality guides laws not the other way around

>>11360332
yeah that was a bit of a mistake, i didn't word that well.
morality guides the creation and maintenance of laws. not all individuals have the same morals but laws are used to guide their behaviours in compliance with the morals of society.

>>11360623
to add on to "not be definitive of morality," there are cases like the one given where it is immoral to not break the law. in that sense laws "should" exist to guide morality.

Bump