/fa/ - Fashion

>>11310229
Can someone also make the "when a joke goes on for too long" meme but with pictures of vetements?

I honestly don't get people who don't get Vetements. It's serious-but-not-self-serious, what-is-fashion-anyway, idk-but-I-really-like-it-and-care-about-it, shit-eating-smirk-beneath-an-eagle-eye clothes. In other words, perfect.

>>11310330
Its fucking hipster shit that's what it is. Its just muh irony in a brand

>>11310343
It's not their fault if you can't see the passion in it.

>>11310382
its because its been done before to death

>>11310330
I assure you everybody gets it. There's not much to get.

>>11310330
People on /fa/ think of fashion as dressing well, not in terms of runway/art. Wouldn't have been like that a few years ago.

>>11310471
a few years ago it would be what reddit is now, instead of /fa/'s current W2C ASAP ROCKY'S STRIPED TEE bullshit

>>11310471
This may be the case but Vetements is derivative hipster-tier art

>>11310477
I see. And what is "non-derivative" art? And you could explain "hipster-tier" to me?

>>11310652
Hipster-tier is anything that primarily relies on irony and the use and abuse of the internet.

Non-derivative is anything that doesn't ape its inspiration. See @whowhoreditbetter for examples.

>>11310330
It's because part of their critique is in deconstructing the hype based market in rtw through controlled releases and self consciously artificial prices, so people rightly mock fuckboys who 'fall for the meme' by buying pieces like the DHL shirt when they can't really afford to just blow money on a joke.

Then you get newfags who don't get it who confuse that criticism with vetements being completely a joke, couching in weak critcs like >>11310389 "it's all been done before" or shit like vetememes who thing they're undermining them.

>>11310775
Imo the hypebeast market deconstructs itself with brands like Supreme or HBA. We already know these people are stupid fucks with no shred of personality.

People just like it because muh irony or muh postmodernism but its not enough to have a specific idea in mind and just execute it but execute it well. It's much funnier matching Supreme hypebeasts fall for the meme when Supreme does it unintentionally than Vetements intentionality making fun of hypebeasts. That unintentional element adds a richer type of dramatic irony because both sides are unaware while spectators know how stupid they are compared to Vetements. Vetements is a joke set up to happen while general hypebeast brands are a joke that organically happens. I happen to enjoy that organic factor to a joke rather than one set up as I view it as a better experience for all sides. In Vetements the one who makes the ironic deconstruction is basically saying "hey guys look how funny I am lol".

And yes, people did it before. Yohji with his skateboards and possibly Y3, Rei with CDG CDG, and any brand who parrots artistic integrity when it is just a giant cashgrab which is a lot of brands.

>>11310799
Yeah you don't get it

>>11310802
Not this guy but god you sound like a douche.

>>11310802
Explain why I don't get it because I think I do. You sound in denial and have been drinking too much of the PoMo juice.

>>11310816
Too lazy and I did it just the other night

>>11310847
Then copy and paste it.

>>11310775
Everybody gets the joke, anon. You're just the only one who thinks it's funny.

>>11310857
>>/fa/thread/S11275807#p11294393
>>/fa/thread/S11275807#p11294497

>>11310799
HBA is good, you can see that in their shows. But the consumers ruin it.

>>11310970
I get the DHL shirt and I most certainly get Vetements. Like you said Demna and co. are no Chalayan and are pretty obvious with their messages. It's just ironic meta reddit tier humor distilled into fashion and the appeal with it is that people find it somewhat humorous or at the very least interesting how they make fun of hypebeasts but like what >>11310945 said at this point in time most people don't find it funny as that type of humor has been done to death.

My point also still stands that hypebeasts make fun of themselves better than vetements makes fun of hypebeasts because they're too dumb to notice.

Don't believe everything Vogue or ShowStudio writers tell you m8.

>>11310471
That's a mfa which is fine honestly fashion is about expressing a taste. Everyone is forced to look at this when they talk to you

>>11310975
Nah HBA looks like 2009-2012 streetwear

>>11311145
not him, but you really dont know much about hba do you?

>>11311013
God in fucking heaven, you fucks only see irony because that's all you can see.

What, exactly, is *ironic* about this dress or these boots? They play with the conventions of fashions, but there is nothing distanced or double-meaning about what they're doing with these pieces.

Vetements is sometimes ironical, and sometimes humorous, but it's not jokes.

>>11311212
Playing with conventions is by definition ironic as irony relies on a discrepancy between actions, expectations, and knowledge. You expect one thing, you get another. Out of this discrepancy new meaning is born.

>>11311212
if only their menswear wasnt complete garbage

>>11311246
>Playing with conventions is by definition ironic
No it isn't. Tropes can be engaged with ironically but they don't have to be. You can acknowledge the existence of a convention without actually presenting the piece as implicit in it and then undermining it.

Playfulness is just associated with irony, but engaging with conventions could easily describe deconstruction too.

>>11310775
>It's because part of their critique is in deconstructing the hype based market in rtw through controlled releases and self consciously artificial prices, so people rightly mock fuckboys who 'fall for the meme' by buying pieces like the DHL shirt when they can't really afford to just blow money on a joke.
you just described all of modern art and most high fashion

>>11310229
>VETEMEMES
>MEMES
lol

>>11311013
The humor is just one part of it, the majority of their pieces aren't humorous. Also, you don't give them enough credit, the DHL shirt is a very good, multilayered joke, definitely not reddit tier. >>11310945 And the reason I made that post about the shirt was because clearly not everyone gets the joke, even their fans.

And I'm still unconvinced you get it either if you think that Supreme's exploitation the hypebeast market is the same thing but sincere, Vetements' business model is just their business model, there's a lot more to the label than simply that. And even accepted your singular interepretation, your criticism of the label is just a criticism of satire itself versus the real thing satirized. Satire has political power, Vetements has done more to undermine the conceptions of hype and price than any hypebeast skewering.

>>11313167
Not necessarily. Vetements exaggerates models specific to the contemporary fashion industry. I just described it vaguely. "Controlled release" can describe both an auction house or brand protection by limiting releases to certain stores and consumers.

But yes, contemporary art has been consciously critiquing the financial and institutional influences defining its boundaries in a similar, and more sensitive way as Vetements, very prominently for the last decade. Fashion's always been a laggard.

>>11313208
>contemporary art has been consciously critiquing the financial and institutional influences defining its boundaries in a similar, and more sensitive way
contemporary art is not "sensitive" or interesting at all
it's just a unfunny joke that has been going on for too long

>>11313144
Read any definition of irony m8

>>11313208
My point on Supreme was that it was a better satirization as it was insincere unlike Vetements which set out to do it. The only reason Vetements may have done more to undermine hype as it does it with intention and people notice this intention as it is blatantly obvious. Audiences watching hypebeasts succumb to the hype is enough to undermine hype, which is done in a much more subtle way.

Vetements isn't something that requires years of doctoral research to get. Anyone with perhaps a year of experience in following fashion can get it.

>>11313418
>The only reason Vetements may have done more to undermine hype as it does it with intention and people notice this intention as it is blatantly obvious. Audiences watching hypebeasts succumb to the hype is enough to undermine hype, which is done in a much more subtle way.
Well yes, that's what I meant by satire having political power. It's more effective at changing the industry because it isn't subtle, there's no question about its critique, and its unavoidable since it's coming from within, rather than commentary from the outside.

Schadenfreude for hypebeasts is a lot weaker and quieter than Vetements' critique, which also extends far beyond just that - Vetements is more angled at designer rtw, rick owens, yy etc. than it is streetwear or diffusion lines, fyi.

>>11313252
Why do middle class plebs feel most entitled to their opinions on exactly those things they know nothing about?

>>11313913
who dat

>>11313918
Cho A

>>11313913
Damn posting Choa at your argument against my point. You making me weak anon. Lemme counter with Taengoo.

There's barely any change though, however. The customers, who should be changing, are still biting into the neverending hype cycle and using Vetements as their next dependency.

>>11310229

poor Denma wanted to make womensware but all these faggots only want his logo shit and turned him into a meme designer

>>11314007
Yea but at least they're getting properly ripped apart for it now.

And again, that's not at all just what vetements is about. it just describes a couple of their pieces like the DHL shirt and the parka in the OP, the polizei jacket etc.

>>11315724
Yeah upon further thinking this is perhaps my only gripe now. Scrap my Supreme point earlier as you've convinced me of the contrary. I just don't see Vetements achieving the goal it set out to do which is perhaps reform the system. Or maybe they just critique for the sake of critiquing and offer no intended solution? Second case seems more likely imho.

>>11315772
Yeah tb/h I agree. I feel like the most effective thing to disrupt the hype industry would be a well developed "1:1" counterfiet industry, like on the level of prominence of Zara. Rather than just knockoffs that adjust it enough to avoid copyrights, but actually believable pieces to anyone but the wearer or someone browsing his closet or examining it closely.

That way, the signal value of a label with 'meme' pieces would immediately lose their value as soon as they become hyped enough for anyone to easily cop a ripoff. It would force fuckboys to go full "refined basics" or visvim cult, hyping construction and quality over the label and just push them to be much more informed in general about their clothing.

But still, it's really unfair to vetements to hold it so strongly against them just for throwing a few jokes in their collections. I still think the DHL shirt is a hilarious gesture, and I mean, they're fully right to recognize its potential as a fashionable piece regardless of the commentary - which was already halfway present wearing a DHL shirt 'fashionably' pre-vetements, they just added a couple extra layers to the humor as I already described in the archived post I linked.

You've got top taste in women and are a reasonable anon, anon. good luck to you

>>11315857
That's assuming that buyers are rational though. Most people think that buying the real thing has this prestige associated with it, which largely manufactured and fake. Ideally you would want a knowledgeable customer base who are able to look into design rather than hype, but untraining that tendency most people have is a difficult thing ingrained to us by fashion's cyclical and fast-paced nature. I think the industry needs to slow down a bit and watch the scenery. Thinking about it, Vetements could be actually helping this untraining with its critique of the system but hypebeasts are still too dumb to notice. The key pieces they have are somewhat equivalent to a piece with "the person wearing this item is stupid" plastered all over it but done with subtlety. Them going to couture week can allow them to have a full-on assault on one of fashion's most beloved and sacred institution if they play their cards right.

This was a good chat anon. You have convinced me that Vetements isn't a huge meme after all and they're actually doing something new.