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/diy/ - Do It Yourself

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696467 No.696467 [Reply] [Original]

22 year old truNEET with no work experience and only a high school diploma. If I go back to school and become a certified electrician, what are my chances of getting a job? Another option on the table is going to university for electrical engineering but I don't know if I trust my own intelligence to pull this off, plus it's another four years of my life down the toilet. If it's relevant, I live in Eastern Canada and don't want to relocate. Sorry if slightly off-topic but I think you guys might know better than /adv/.

What do?

>> No.696469

piss easy
go to your local community college and jump into the electrician program, get your t-card and apply to be an apprentice for someone and bring your shovel

>> No.696470

Electricians are still very much in demand.

Don't go to a university for training. Go to a tradeschool or start out at a community college. You don't need the four year degree to get certified to be an electrician, and going to a university when you don't need to just means needless debt. A lot of debt.

>> No.696474

Michigan bro here, I applied to both the electrical and masonry apprenticeships here and was accepted to both, I chose masonry. Union scale for masons is about $2 less an hour, but there are no out of work masons and like hundreds of out of work electricians. If you have some smarts and are not afraid of a little work, look into masonry.

I mean, I'm 34 now and run multi-million dollar jobs for more than union scale. Everybody wants to be an electrician because they think it will be easy, and sometimes it is. But there are way less good masons, and that means more opportunities for you. Think about it.

>> No.696477

>>696467
What is a certified electrician?

Do you want to turn wrenches or look at a monitor all day?

And is electrician the best paid trade available?

>>696474
Masons do a shit ton of work, at a rate that is shit when compared to work per hour scales.

Even with your bitch boys hauling mud and blocks, you still work far harder per hour, than any other trade.

And in the USA, masons have been displaced by taco niggers who are willing to work for a fraction of what White's will work.

tl;dr: masons are taco nigger job.

>> No.696478

>>696469
>>696470
>>696474
Thank you for your replies. I think university is most definitely out then. As for a trade, it sounds like both masonry or electrical could be viable work depending on where you live. I'll probably need to check into the provincial statistics for both these jobs.

>> No.696479

>>696477
Not saying you're wrong, but there are other factors than just avoiding hard work at all costs like a little bitch.

>> No.696482

>>696477
/pol/ plz go these illegal taking ourrrr jeerbs probably work harder than you.

>> No.696484

>>696477
Union scale for journeymen masons is $31 and some change, electricians is $33. And the guys hauling blocks and mud are laborers, not masons.

Also, there are no taco niggers on commercial/industrial jobs, get a clue. And if you think picking up a block and setting on the wall is a "shit ton of work" you should get out from behind your computer and do something.

>> No.696486

>>696477
>What is a certified electrician?
I imagine it's someone who the province has licensed to work on electrical systems.

>Do you want to turn wrenches or look at a monitor all day?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I believe that most electrical work would entail wiring buildings and deciphering diagrams. I don't mind a bit of physical exertion though, or sitting at a computer sometimes.

>And is electrician the best paid trade available?
Frankly I'd just be happy to make enough to afford a one-bedroom.

>tl;dr: masons are taco nigger job.
If you do a shit job of it, sure. Masonry is actually a very respectable career if you're talented. My grandfather was one and his work seems to be incredibly solid and well-made to me. Granted, I don't know the trade so I can't really judge. But I'm not closed off to being a stonemason as long as I can find it interesting enough to put my heart into it.

>> No.696496

>>696482
Californiafag here, never let a mexican build your wall. They will not follow any code ever or do anything right. They make something wall shaped, but it will fall over in less than 5 years.

>> No.696502

>>696496
that's why you hire someone who (who knows what he is doing) to leads the mexicans.

>> No.696511

>>696496
Fellow Califag here. Lived in San Diego for a stretch. Local taco place across the street hired their buds from across the wire to build them a cinder block wall around the parking lot. They dug a shallow trench and poured a steel reinforced concrete footing. Every 8 or so feet the put in a steel reinforced column. The clearly eyeballed it. When it came time to put in the blocks they started on once side and worked their way to the other. They reached the first column and it was way off. Had to cut blocks to make it fit. The cut them with a claw hammer by just beating the shit out of them till it broke the way they wanted. Filled in the gaps with a shit ton of mortar. Rinse and repeat for every section of wall. It looks like shit and the boartar started to go in under a year.

>> No.696514

>>696496
as another californiafag I would not trust anything made here because nothing built here is good, doesn't matter the race but the people teaching here don't give a fuck about codes

>> No.696518

Goto school while youre still young, doesnt have to be university, but get some sort of qualification/certification. Be open minded about relocating as well.

>> No.696528

>>696514
Original califag. Word. I've seen some shit in new construction. Old construction sucks because no insulation and bad wiring. New construction sucks because there's no quality. I am planning to order a prefab/modular house built in abfactory

>> No.696628

There is only two White or black owned masonry companies in my area. When I was 18 there were probably 10 large companies and 30 or more one or two men companies.

Now all the masons are Hispanics,as are the majority of roofers.

>> No.696692

>>696474
doesn't masonry wreck your body? I've known two former masons and they say all the older masons become pill-heads or alcoholics.

>> No.696753

>>696692


>>696474 here, it's really not that bad. I mean, an 12 inch block is what, 50 lbs? Sure it can kick your ass on some days, but I actually like to work, so I guess that may be different for other people.

As for the older guys being druggies? Not on any jobs I've been on. Most, if not all of them end up as foremen or superintendents. Some of them solely do the layout work and check the job as it progresses. I work for one of the largest masonry contractors in the Midwest and our owner is a mason. Plus you must pass random drug tests to be in the union and work on commercial/industrial/government jobs. Also, construction is dangerous, I don't want to be 40 feet up on a hydro mobile scaffold with some high on driving the damn thing.

As far as the whole Mexicans taking over thing goes, some of the small residential contractors have been pushed out by them, but not all of them by far. Maybe they have a lot of decorative work, but nothing structural. When a general contractor has to hold up an entire development because all the foundations the dirt cheap "masons" put in are out of square, they usually have them done by real professionals the next time around.

tl;dr Masonry was just a suggestion. There is good money in it, and it is in high demand. If you don't want to work hard for the first ten years or so, it's not for you.

>> No.696844

>>696753
masonry, laying bricks.
What the fuck you are speaking about is not masonry.

"Oh, picking up a block and mudding it down is easy peasy."

Sure thing asshat.
Proves you never been a mason or worked in the field for a single day.

>> No.696848

>>696692
Yes. Enjoy knee replacement surgery. Probably lower back surgery too. Same goes with tile setters too.

>> No.696856

Not sure how i works in canadaland, but here in the US we just apply to an electrical company and then they end up sending us to school on their dime while you work for lower wages through your apprenticeship.

>> No.696858

In my area
Masons- 2-3 decent guys (who gives a fuck about race) the rest ex-cons, alcholics and mexicans that are probably also criminals

Commercial drywallers/framers- 2-3 white guys the rest dirt poor mexicans with alcohol problems and DUI's

Roofers- no hablo.. usually from further south than mexico

painters- 50/50 white and mexicans.. depends on the crew.. usually junkies

MEPS (mechanical, electrical, plumber, fire sprinkler) all races usually smarter and care about their trade and work too much to be getting drunk every night.

Carpenters (GC laborers and carpenters included) - Stressed out work-a-holics and some are drunks.. usually think they are above everyone and treat everyone like shit. Mostly liars that think they are pulling one over on everyone.

Insulators - mexicans and arent around long enough to get to know

Landscapers - mexicans.. no hablo types.. trench through stuff then bury it.. never say a word.

excavators - Mix of whites and mexicans, all speak english but their apprenticeship is usually hand digging and then they sit for hours all day in a machine.. bodies are jacked up.

Blacks are rare in this area to have a trade, but we do see them as temp labor and most of them dont like the work and feel like they are being abused by being asked to work... no /pol/ just speaking truth.

>> No.696860

Move to NYC and join local 3's apprenticeship program....With trades like electrician, Transmission Mechanic, Locksmith, Welder, Air Conditioning and Refrigeration, plumbing after 5 years you could become an entrepreneur, go solo and sell your skills to the public for cash full or part time.... Just go start as a helper in any trade for low pay to see if you do not hate it....Learn and F-Up on the boss's dime...Doing a minimum of 5 years full in any trade is what it will take to become minimally proficient ...You'll never become rich but you'll never be homeless either...PLUS it's easier to learn any trade now thanks to the internet and YouTube. I took a 3 month course at a trade school in 1987...Took an apprentice job for $4 per hour (I was previously making $14+ per hour at FedEx) ...When the shit hit the fan a few years ago I had to returned to this trade as an entrepreneur and I've made 4X what I need to live ever since

>> No.696863

BTW....There are 75K+ jobs available for hard working White guys in the nascent shale oil fields in places like North Dakota...You may have to take a welding course to be hired....Look into that...

>> No.696884

>>696486
Also if you don't eat total shit you will get /fit/ as fuck doing masonry

>> No.696885

>>696844
Wow, such butthurt. Laying block isn't masonry? What kind of shit is that? Most of the stuff we do is schools, hospitals, and large commercial buildings (think Home Depot and shit). Block walls grouted and steel reinforced with a brick facade. I lay block and brick, so fuck you. If you're scared to actually sweat, then maybe you should go write some java in a cubicle, you fucking pussy.

>> No.696889

Apprentice Electrician here, currently working for a small company doing residential and a little bit of commercial jobs. I've been working for them for about a year and a couple months. the pay when you start off is going to be low and not what you expected but in the future it will grow and grow. If I was you, don't go into the Union it is shit. Look for a big company or a smaller company for work. As for the difficulty, It is physical and a fast pace job for residential. a lot of work has to go in.

>> No.696933

>>696889
>If I was you, don't go into the Union it is shit.

>This is what non-union employees really think

Enjoy getting laid off in the winter months because no new constructions is happening. Enjoy getting a lower average wage.
Enjoy never knowing job security.

B-but anon, you have to pay the union so much money!!! It's always smaller than what you'd make as non-union. Only downsides of unions are putting up with their political shit and the fact that you might have to travel more for work.

>> No.696951

>>696933
Union is fucked up.
Don't go union unless you plan on taking advantage of every class they have then quitting.
They will pressure you into politics and my dad actually had his truck pipe bombed by the truckers.

>> No.696984

>>696933
around my parts the union is always laid off with a bunch of people on the bench. I have taken a total of 2 weeks off in the last 8 years. Union really depends on where you are at, my area the union is around but they have a hard time competing

>> No.696988

>>696885
I'll stick to my Trade, which pays far better than yours, with much better working conditions.

You keep on humping those bricks, and breaking your back for less than what a green electrician makes.

And I'll keep on slinging my tools, for a wage that makes seasoned electricians butthurt and suicidal.

>> No.697003

>>696988
And what trade is that? You have had 0% helpful things to say I this thread. Why don't you tell us how you are making six figures in a trade?

>> No.697007
File: 153 KB, 800x600, st denis ribbed barrel vaulting.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
697007

>>696885
tbh, laying block is kinda low tier usually left to the mexicans. try to get more work doing sexy masonry like repointing and restoring historic brick lintels

>> No.697009

>>696984
I live in a Blue state. The government has to hire union workers here.

>>696951
I'm sure you dad did have issues like that in the 60's and 70's.

>> No.697013

>>697007
That's cute, low tier. You don't actually do any field work, do you?

>> No.697016

>>697013
just sayin' there are different tiers to various jobs. a lot of masons can't even do a basic arch. it's like a specialty of master masons in australia because everything is flat bar lintels.

>> No.697018

>>697016
Dude, repointing anything is easy as hell. There is tons of that going on in detroit now and, although it pays the same, it requires hardly any skill.

>> No.697022

>>697016

>>697018 here, not saying it isn't cool work, but the actual masonry is already there, you basically just grind out the old joints and repoint. As far as masons not being able to do an arch, Pretty much any journeyman bricklayer can build arches. I took several classes through the union. Will I ever actually use it with today's shitty architecture? Doubt it.

>> No.697040

>>697003
I make very good money as a HVAC/R tech.
With overtime, I have made 100k+ several years. Right now, my base pay puts me at close to 80k. Bonuses and commissions will put me over 100k again this year.

Sorry your limited intelligence and skill set has you slinging mud bricks for chump change.

>> No.697042

>>696467
4 years studying EE (less, actually they start you out with the basics first) is rarely a waste. You'll fail out in the first three semesters, or you'll make it the whole way through. Just suck it up and learn the math, worst case you'll wind up working in telecom.

>> No.697045

What's the realistic risks of being an electrician? Is it a "you or someone you know is going to get electrocuted" type thing?

>> No.697050

>>697045
Electrocution is unlikely. Follow safety guides, understand and respect electricity.

In some cases electricians will work on live circuits with zero fucks given because they know what they're doing.

You're probably more likely to hurt yourself falling off a ladder than getting electrocuted.

>> No.697052

>>697045
not really. The vast majority of "electricians" never touch a live circuit.

For the most part, it is a Trade full of folks who drill holes, pull wire and do simple connections of a fixed method on a few basic devices.

They'll tell you how difficult and dangerous it is, but they do that to bolster their egos and wash away the pain of their low pay and shittier jobs.

Linesmen, actual electricians who work on live circuits figuring out shit that is broke, they are good folks and make good money.

The run of the mill "electricians" are ignorant fucks who are doing a job a monkey or a nigger could do,if the bananas were right.

>> No.697076

>>697050

The electricians who get over confident are the ones who get shocked. The new guys who are still overly cautious don't. Just don't be a stupid overconfident newbie

>> No.697078

>>697050
>replaced three outlets live
>PVC gloves just for sure
>still sweatin bullets
If you aren't afraid of electricity you should not be working with it. Rule #1.

>> No.697080

>>697078
Heh.
I built and tested a tube amp with a > 300V supply. I kept one hand behind my back always when probing around.

>> No.697226

>>697040
Even the experienced techs around here make 60k as base pay. Problem is, every community college and tech school is pumping out hundreds of "qualified applicants" for every position. So now you need 10 to 15 years experience to even make close to 60k. They are all $14 shit tier jobs. The market is flooded them.

Even with my "limited intelligence", I understand the concept of supply and demand. And to be fair, there are some dumbasses in masonry (as I'm sure there are in your field as well), they end up holding the end of my tape measure and chalk line as I lay out wall lines.

Tl;dr keep fixing your refrigerators and I'll keep building things that will be around for centuries.

>> No.697234

>>696753
I'll talk to you when you're 30 years oler

>> No.697236

>>696467
fellow canuck here. forget uni; do a trade.

you probably shouldn't listen to too many of these amerifats. their system is different from ours. here, most mechanical trades (hvacr plumbing electrical tool/die etc) are all 5 year apprenticeships. the nice thing is you are making decent money the entire way through. first year makes 50% journeyman wages, second year makes 60% etc.

im hvacr. so i did my AC & refrigeration apprenticeship for which i got a red seal accreditation which means its good across canada (over 80% on the final exam) and i have a gas fitters license to allow me to work on propane and natural gas equipment. this those i make $50/hr and right now i work for myself so i can choose how much i work but can easily make $100k+ in a year

apprenticeships can suck depending what company you do it with. if you do an electrical apprenticeship with a big commercial company, you will probably spend most of it pulling wiring and not know shit by the end except what you learn in the school portion of the apprenticeship training. i was lucky enough to get in with a medium sized company and they threw me right into the shit and i learned a ton very quickly and now im awesome. lol

tl;dr go be a real trade, not some monkey labour trade you'll regret when you're old and your body is broken

>> No.697267

>>697236
in australia, the government comissioned a study into apprenticeships. found that 25% of apprentices get no job training from their apprenticeship and instead get used as cleanup crew or receptionists.

still havn't legislated against this kind of crap.

it's the boomers man, don't worry if you're already certified. I'm sure apprenticeships will go up to 10 years in the future.

right now as it stands in my country, the boomers are too old to do their jobs anymore but the retirement age is like 85 or something stupid now. so they can't touch their retirement funds because shitty laws. so what we have in effect is workshops and building sites full of apprentices with a few qualified trades people all over 50 just being foremen, paying 7$/hr wages and taking in 120$/hr service fees.

new houses are built like absolute crap here.

>> No.697289
File: 43 KB, 620x473, obama-wide-grin_1548848i.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
697289

>>696467
What's not fun about what that guy is doing.

What did you expect to do if this bothers you.


When I went to the government unemployment agency to ask to be schooled as an electrician they straight out said "Don't do this unless you're prepared to do hard work such as grinding/chiseling out stone walls for the cables and getting dirt from dust etc etc. I was fine with that.


Ironically I just finished my internship that came with it and the boss asked me to stay on full time but that he thinks I'm to smart for hard/dirty work and wants me to learn home automation design and drawing with autocad. Probably since I have a background in ICT as a programmer.


> mfw I thought I would need at least 2 years of labor intensive work to get promotion to something like this

>> No.697319

>>696469
Seriously bring a shovel. Those areas around telephone poles don't uncover themselves.

>> No.697353

>>696467
Canadian Electrical apprentice here in BC
First off no it's not an easy job you're going to be doing grunt work for the first 3 months easily until you prove yourself actually worth the time to train. Do not listen to the amerifats in this thread they operate under different rules than we do. Here the union will put you on the bottom of the list every time you change jobs so unless you like having a lot of free time find a decent company and stick with it. Do NOT try to start off working in residential. It is small potatoes you're not going to learn half the stuff you would learn in the first month at a commercial site in six months to a year on a residential site. If you show a willingness to learn and enjoy mentally stimulating work (I've been doing this since I was 14 I still run into new problems and things I've never seen before) You will enjoy it. Just remember always double check the circuit and go get me a box of fucking amps you shit!

>> No.697356

Canadastan electricians have it sweet. Here in Amurrika tradesmen are mostly expendable.

That's also a trade unlikely to destroy your back or lungs. Ironworkers and welders have it much rougher.

>> No.697357

>>697289

Sheeit, nigga! AutoCAD is fun and you can download it free with a student email address (a live one, you'll need it for the key) or torrent it. I've not gotten a good copy of 64-bit AutoCAD yet.

There are plenty of CAD resources on the net and you can kick ass teaching yourself. I just dropped my AutoCAD course to get c-spine surgery but now I see how it works I'm HIGHLY confident that if you can program you can teach yourself. It's better if your employer or government pays for a class but don't let that stop you.

>> No.697360

>>697357
Now that I think about it it wasn't really autoCAD but something specifically for electricity.

I think it was this one:
http://www.ige-xao.com/en/products/see-electrical

We've had some basic Draftsight in our electrician's training wich is supposed to be very similiar to autoCAD and I got a fully cracked autoCAD installation on my pc but haven't really taken the time to use it though.

Currently starting evening school as well to learn about electrical motors, industrial electrical installations and basic mechanics/PLC as a back-up to become a maintenance electrician. Had I known my boss wanted to keep me on for home automation etc I would've registered for that but oh well. On the job training then, I can't find anything usefull online(so far) to learn KNX-automation. Anybody got good resources?

>> No.697363

>>697360
ugh, for knx:

http://www.knx.org/media/docs/KNX-Tutor-files/Summary/ETS4-Project-Design-Advanced.pdf

not sure if KNX is used in the US etc, it seems widely used in Europe(I'm in Belgium)

>> No.697367

>>697226
I live in NC, which is the shit tier of wages.
Up north, I'd be making a base wage of 120k easy, with over time pushing it close to 170k or so.

Keep telling yourself that shit about centuries. Ain't nothing commercial being made today, except nuclear reactors that have life spans of over 50 years planned.

>> No.697368

>>697363
explains software but not the hardware part

>> No.697376

>>697367
$170k fixing air conditioners. No, just no. Are you insecure about your job? Because I work with all sorts of tradesmen on a daily basis and none of them degrade others about their choice of career like this. You almost had me until you said "base wage of 120k easy". Just...no.

>> No.697384

>>697376
This is what the average NC hvac/r worker makes according to the bureau of labor statistics as of May 2013

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes499021.htm

Show us a pay stub you lying sack of shit.

>> No.697388

>>697384
I was calling him out, that's not me. I don't believe for a second he is making even 100k a year. I'm the mason who he has been berating and calling an asshat this whole time.

>> No.697390

>>697388
yeah sorry I just clicked reply on the wrong guy.. you know what I am trying to accomplish.

>> No.697476

>>697376
Surely you must take his word for it, seeing as he has 27 years of experience and spells HVAC/R very carefully every time?

I mean, someone with 27 years of experience in HVAC/R must be right about everything all the time, right?

>> No.697515

>>697384
A) average = not me

B) HVAC and Refrigeration are two separate trades in NC, requiring 4 separate Licenses. 3 for various aspects of HVAC such as boilers, residential/light commercial and unlimited and one for commercial refrigeration. I have all of them

C) Math is hard. Just at a base 35/hr, no over time, is 72k. I make better than that, get bonuses for sales goals, bonuses for staying within the projected operations budget for the branch, and commissions.

Must suck to sling mud bricks, ruin your body and get shit pay to boot.

>> No.697524

>>696692
This, because
>>696474
>I'm 34 now
Yeah, and when you're 45 you'll be wondering how in the hell you can keep going. At 50 you'd better be in a purely managerial role, otherwise you'll be unemployed.

Electricians get another 5-10 years of useful career before they have to find some other way of supporting themselves. It just isn't as hard on the body.

>> No.697690

>>697524
If you've been in any trade for 27 years and aren't self employeed or an executive, you've fucked up.

>> No.697732

>>697690
See the Freakonomics chapter on pimps.

If you make more money doing the work than you do finding and arranging the work to do, then you're better-off paying someone to do that and spending the time instead doing more work.

There's also economies of scale in advertising, mail, telephone-answering, tax returns, giant-ass machines that live at base and get used once a month, etc. etc.

>> No.697790

>>696467
Op, disregard all the advice in this thread and just do this:

First, renounce your Canadian citizenship, you won't need it where you're going...

Next, hop across that border and head south! That's right, you're headed to North Carolina, home of inbred rednecks and amazing god-tier wages!

Almost there op, stay with me! Next you must obtain the blessed sacraments of the HVAC/R world...the almighty certifications! That's right, make sure you get all four or you'll be stuck at pleb-tier wages for eternity!

Finally, you must prepare yourself. With your blessed certifications in hand, you must don protective gear. Not because of harmful working conditions, no no. You must protect yourself from the money!

Once you are standing in the great state of North Carolina with with not one, not two, not three, but all four glorious certifications, you will be pelted with wads of cash, gold bullion, Troy ounces of silver, whatever people can get their hands on.

Sometimes you won't even be able to find your tools because someone has stuffed your toolbag with cash! You'll just sit in some back room huffing R-22, while beatiful women pleasure you and feed you grapes! It will be fucking amazing!

If you do anything but this, you are a stupid taco nigger Jew with aids on welfare.

That is all.

>> No.697951

>>697790
Sigh. If I had a nickel for every time I had to move a pile of money out of the way to get to a wrench ...

>> No.697952

How much power does an average home need? I've been looking at some wind turbines and they say that they produce 2kW or so but is that over the whole day or for an hour or what? What can I expect one wind turbine to power?

>> No.697997

>>696467
Shouldn't be too hard OP. But if you want to really succeed and move up the ladder, Pay attention and learn everything you can. Being good at math sure wouldn't hurt either when dealing with ohms law.

>> No.697999

>>696858
>MEPS (mechanical, electrical, plumber, fire sprinkler) all races usually smarter and care about their trade and work too much to be getting drunk every night.

The more technical the more white it gets, I don't know why but that's how it is in my neck of the woods. I work for CAT and there isn't a single black guy or Mexican anywhere in the building. Hell I don't even think the janitor is Mexican.

It's a great work environment and the higher ups really care about us. They routinely buy us tools and all sorts of goodies, along with great pay.

>> No.698000

>>696863
>BTW....There are 75K+ jobs available for hard working White guys in the nascent shale oil fields in places like North Dakota...You may have to take a welding course to be hired....Look into that...
Are they still in need of Diesel/heavy equipment mechanics? I'm curious as to what an ASE master tech would make out that way.

>> No.698002

>>697999
I'm white gib jerb pls

>> No.698089

>>697790
>all four glorious certifications
Quick, what are the certifications I must get?!?!?!

>> No.698172

>>698089
Don't rush in. It'll take you 27 years.

>> No.698197

>>696858
Great post, fuckin' saved

>> No.698346

>>697524
>Yeah, and when you're 45 you'll be wondering how in the hell you can keep going. At 50 you'd better be in a purely managerial role, otherwise you'll be unemployed.

Electricians get another 5-10 years of useful career before they have to find some other way of supporting themselves. It just isn't as hard on the body.

Mfw fat, lazy people actually believe this.

Looked around my job today, at least half the guys there are over 50. All of them with vise like grips and not a fat one among them. Laying block, talking shit to one another, none of them in a wheelchair or using a cane. How can this be? Well, an interesting thing happens when you do hard things, you get stronger. Crazy, right? The 50 year olds are hopping around like spider monkeys on the fucking scaffolding making the the young apprentices look like little girls.

Do whatever you want, dude. Make that money, good for you. I happen to love what I do, do you? I think maybe some /fit/ mason bro fucked your old lady or something, cuz you have some serious butthurt going on.

>> No.698394

>>698346
>Well, an interesting thing happens when you do hard things, you get stronger

Only until you injure yourself.

>> No.698397

>>698394
Go live in a bubble.

>> No.698398

>>697690
Ran my own company with 8 full time employees in the field, two people in the office and paid health insurance for all employees (they paid zero for health insurance for themselves).

And ran into the divorce papers. Shut that bitch down, and took a few years just fucking off and doing nothing I didn't want to then went back to running a smaller business with just me.

Job came along that paid great, lot less work and I took it.

>>697790
Jelly fag I see. And licenses, son, not certifications.4000 thousand hours for boiler/pressure, 2000 hours for Limited HVAC, 1500 for Unlimited and 4000 for Refrigeration. In about another year, I'll have my Limited Electrical License for HVAC/R. All of them require the requisite time working under a person already holding the license, and the ability to pass at least one 6-8 hour test for each one.

Stay chill and enjoy the shit work for shit pay you are making.

>> No.698401

>>698398
I can see why your wife left, you're a total dick.

>> No.698425

look into being a lineman for a utility company. Most hire out of tradeschools that offer sometype of pole climbing class

>> No.698427

>>698401
Sure thing mate.
I make bank though, and her bf ain't clearing 30k USD a year.

See, in the trades there are three options.
You can be johnny. I am stupid fucktard, feed me shit.

You can be Freddy, just enough to make my minimums and raises.

Or, you can be, Makemepilesofmoney, who puts improving ones abilities, knowledge and skillsets far beyond the common shittard.

I gave my ex 29k USD in cash. Not cash I borrowed, not cash I pulled out of my bank accounts, but cash that was taken from my stashes.

ITT: fucktards who might have some basic skills, but lack the ability to transfer those skills to cash on delivery calls.

Oinga Boinga. Took a customer's old Indoor and out door unit out this evening.
Installed the crap equipment they purchased off the internet.

Charged them 2600USD.
Paid my help, who did 99% of the work, 200USD.
Bought them dinner, another 30USD. Materials, another 30USD.

Uh, you do the math, faggot.

>> No.698429

>>698425
Poleclimbing class, eh?
Well I am pretty gay...

>> No.698430

>>698425
The linemen apprenticeship here (michigan) requires a class A CDL. Damn good job though, tons of storm work.

>> No.698431

>>698430
Linesmen make good bank no matter where they are.
But it is a dangerous, dirty, on call, all the time type job.
And includes the, "We are sending you the area stricken by a hurricane, tornado, natural disaster" type place shit.", small print.

>> No.698434

>>698431
How dangerous is it?
Is it "act of god" dangerous, where shit might just happen to you or "you lose focus for a second and make a small fuck up and you're toast" kinda thing?

>> No.698438

>>698427
You're totally rich, bro. Gotcha.

>> No.698443

>>698434
I'll go with both. Plus they work with voltages and amps that would make most inside wire men cringe and pee themselves.

>> No.698449

>>698430
There is plenty of storm work for sure and plenty of over/double time and lots of long nights if you know what im saying

>> No.698451

>>698449
No doubt, that's why I like the building trades. I'm out at 3:15 everyday. Get to spend weekends and holidays with my family and friends, not slumming it in some random motel hundreds of miles from home.

Still, I'm sure some guys think its awesome.

>> No.698452

>>698434
Both. You're driving + working almost as much as a truck driver and working even worse hours. Then if you lose your focus or overlook something you are fucking gone.

First 5 years are spent as a bitch of everyone else on the crew, gaffing every single pole while the guy with the bucket truck watches you, smiles, and sips his coffee.

You have to be in good shape to pass pole climbing class. If your BMI is higher than 25, that had better be all muscle or you're going to get rekt. I'm just cable company, (I only have to gaff half as high as power) and I barely made it. Got back from training every night and had a couple ibuprofen and sat in the hot tub/sauna for two hours. BMI of 30.

They make bank though and their job isn't going to disappear in 10 years. (barring a solar panel breakthrough, which there probably will be, so let's say 25-30, which would be enough time for you to get seniority over everyone)

>> No.698455

>>698452
>First 5 years are spent as a bitch of everyone else on the crew, gaffing every single pole while the guy with the bucket truck watches you, smiles, and sips his coffee

You're the guy sipping coffee now, aren't you?

>> No.698456

>>698452
you think mexicans can't be trained to climb poles? they do worse jobs for less pay.

>> No.698458

>>698455
>cable company
>We ever have guys sipping coffee.
FML

No, I'm pretty junior still anyway. I can tell by how much my back is starting to hurt that I'm getting a bucket soon ish. At this point I'm looking at towable buckets and getting my boss to let me bring that and my own vehicle.

>> No.698459

>>698434
If you follow the procedures, not that dangerous.

>> No.698461

>>698456
They do and have made a good go at ruining the telco unions and killing my wages, yeah.

power unions aren't having none of it thougP. GL with getting them in there. Wages are still high and not coming down, no reason to hire the cheaper mexican if the union is going to make them join at the same pay rate anyway.

Power unions are also in too tight with government, they're still a monopoly utility.

>> No.698465

>>698456
Der teekin ur jurbs!

Do you think Mexicans can't be trained to do any job? Soon even the best paid trades will be too "icky" for pasty white boys who don't want to get their hands dirty, and the transformation will be complete! Mwahahahaha!!!

>> No.698467

>>698465
Yeah seriously this. I meant 'they will still have a job in 10 years' because no one is going to want cable tv or internet in 10 years because they will get better more dependable speeds over the air. They will probably still need power though (barring solar panel breakthroughs as I noted)

>> No.698469

>>698456
Anyone can be trained to climb a pole its knowing what to do when you get to where you need to be and fix the problem and not get hurt/killed

>> No.698470

>>698469
Pretty sure they have power and cable in Mexico.

>> No.698471

>>698461
Lol, that's why the construction jobs (commercial/industrial) are filled with cheap labor. The key words are prevailing wage. I was on a job where the GC tried to sneak in some scab crew to do some concrete work. We found out about it and let them know what the going wage was for concrete finishers. They threw a fit and threatened to walk if their boss didn't immediately pay them at the going rate. Lulz were had by all.

Except their bosses, they were pissed because they were bidding the job as if they were paying them the going rate. But fuck those guys, they got what they deserved.

>> No.698472

>>698471
Aren't, aren't filled with cheap labor.

>> No.698481

>>696467

any illinois-specific help? am 22 w/two years of uni completed, dropped out a little while back and worked minor service jobs off and on since

or canadian stuff, i have citizenship there and can basically move to any province in the medium term (2-5 years)

>> No.698494

>>698469
you're talking about cable right? is that even dangerous? I thought it was just signal wires.

HV stuff will always be local because power companies dont want to install 100 000$ worth of transmission lines and have someone not terminate it properly and burn down the towers. similarly, they need to pay them well to not do dodgy jobs like power bypasses to give people free power on the side to supplement their wage. also, utilities dont want million dollar settlements from poorly trained workers electrifying people.

but that aside, its just a matter of planning. it's usually only a few years between when labor can be arbitraged as they work out all the details.

take a look at the new zealand telco industry. they fired almost the entire industry overnight when they switched from POTS to fibre. now teenagers can push cable down holes and use a fusion splicer. all the union workers who were on cushy high paid jobs because they had obscure knowledge about the mystical nets of wires filling telephone exchanges are gone.

In australia it did a huge job on them too. but nbn is cancelled now so we can all live on dialup.

>> No.698518

>>696863
I'm hard working and white, and enrolled in a welding program, and hopefully will be applying to a union unless the non union gigs are easier to get

>> No.698583

>>698494
Cable/telco is signal (usually, they both have a couple diffferent ways to get a few hundred volts on some amplified repeaters), but they are sharing poles with power, and shit happens.

A power drop and a tree and a cable line all rubbing together, some broken grounds, whole strand is energized for a thousand feet.

High voltage line on a tree that's also on a drop? street light not wired right? Don't watch where you're going with a bucket?

zap zap zap.

>> No.698692

Damn, I should've come to /diy/. I asked /adv/ about trade skills a while ago and didn't get a response. Honestly forgot about this board.

Still considering what I want to get into. Masonry actually sounds pretty fun (/fit/), but I don't think my local college offers it.

>> No.698809

>>697515
Hi. I'm a lawyer. I make ~200K a year, but only because I like to sail around in south east Asia 3-4 months out of the year. Enjoy breaking you back working overtime, huffing R134a to forget what a miserable, useless piece of shit you are for not having the intelligence or drive to even complete an introductory course in law, much less become a superior, dick swinging, money printing alpha like me. So get off your high horse, repair guy.

>> No.698839

>>698692
Dude, just apply to the BAC. It's the union for bricklayers and allied craftsmen. They train you and everything. You start at like 50% journeyman wage and get a raise every 600 hours. Sometimes it can be hard, but usually it's like this-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GJu5-_VVMmE

Watch that guy work and tell me it's some crazy hard job. On a union job (it's the same union in Canada as well, I work with Ontario fags sometimes) you start at 7:00am work till 9:25 and take a fifteen minute break. Come back, work till noon and take lunch. Then work till 3:00, gather your tools and go home. Scale is different everywhere, but here it is $31 and some change.

Regardless of what people say, it is a good job.

>> No.698899

>>698434
>>698443
Agree with this anon.
Linesmen make bank, but they earn every damn cent of it through the danger of the job.

Working with1400V with only the gods know Amps, while live, ain't something you do for chump change or consider "safe".

They employ a lot of safety practices, but the risk is always there. And that ain't the "fuck that hurt, shake my hand" risk. It is blow a fucking chunk of meat the size of to fists because the transmission line touched whatever for a millisecond.

>> No.698900

>>698470
LMAO.
BAre copper wires, hurled over transmission lines, and ran through homemade, jerry rigged transformers, is not power.

>> No.698903

>>698809
butthurt mason detected.
Feel really sad masonboy.

Headhunter called me today, looking for someone to step into a tech services representative for a refrigeration manufacturer.

Pays better than what I make now, well overtime wise at least, it will not equal my bonuses and commissions, it is work from home except for once a month in person meetings at home office, which the company pays airfare and hotel/per diem.

Still liking slinging bricks and breaking your back?

This job I am going to take if offered which I will be offered it, is me answering the phone and explaining to idiot techs how to diagnose and fix a piece of equipment.

Almost likebeing a brick mason, except it is done in my comfortable home, while sitting at a desk, while not breaking my back or ruining my body, while also getting paid a shitton more than almost any mason in the world.

>> No.698909

>>696474
Michigan bro here, I know not a single out of work electrician. I live in Detroit though and heavy industry is still booming. One company I work for has 3 individual electrical contractors that are always working. They're talking about getting another contractor because the others can't find new employees fast enough.

>> No.698914

>>698903
Seeing as you never did well in school, and didn't come out with the ability to punctuate or capitalise, I doubt you'll last long in a desk-job.

Also, if you're facing B2B, one of the requirements is that you present the facade of somebody who's not a total tosspot.

>> No.698915

>>698809
Hello lawyer bro, I've worked in 3 different skilled trades over the last 15 years. I'm set for life and only work because I enjoy it. Have fun with your white collar backstabbing office-politic world that you feel a need to escape from for a 3rd of the year while I go get paid to hang out with my friends and do things I do as a hobby at home.

>> No.698925

>>698914
1460, back in the days when the SAT was 1600.

MA in Social Work gotten after I went back to college after my divorce, with the Bachelor's I earned going to college at nights in my 20s.

Field tech rep for three different manufacturers, where I had to go out, figure out the problem, explain to the contractor how he was an incompetent and ignorant fucktard, detail how to fix the problem and still manage to keep him as a dealer for the various companies.

See asswipe, an anonymous image board is not a place I need to practice any of my people skills.

And an anonymous image board, ain't the place I am going to exercise anything near proper grammar or punctuation.

Enjoy whatever shit work you do for the shitpay you make.

>> No.698932

>>698925
If you can write, you can always write.

People that can't write always assume that the only difference between them and people that can is that they're not wasting their time and energy putting on airs and graces somewhere where that effort won't be returned. They could totally do it if they expended the effort to check and double-check, if they took their time ordering their thoughts, if they drafted and re-drafted until it looked right; their writing only sucks because they didn't feel like going to the effort over a throwaway piece.

Whereas the reality is that people who can write aren't making any kind of special effort; they're simply smarter and better-educated than you.

>> No.698941

>>698925
Lol, that wasn't even me (the butthurt mason fag). Apparently an anonymous message board is just the place you come to be a jackass and talk about how super-duper rich you are.

Here's a clue...no one cares.

The op wanted to know about how to get into the trades. I offered a suggestion. You shit on that and everything else, good for you. Extremely helpful, really.

OP, all the building trades are pretty sweet, I only suggested going the union route because in Canada, they have apprenticeships that work just like they do here. No matter which one you choose, you'll start out at a percentage of the journeyman rate, and move steadily up over four or five years. It's a pretty good deal.

>>698909
Yeah, I live in Southfield. I asked the sparky on the job today and he said they were all working, too. My bad. There is a hell of a boom going on, what with the light rail, Dan Gilbert's billions, and now the new ice arena. I think my company got all the masonry on the ice arena, that will be sweet, 20 minutes from home.

>> No.698956
File: 70 KB, 611x815, 500kva.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
698956

I'm a red seal journeyman electrician in Calgary, AB.There is tons of work out here and the pay is great. I work commercial in the city and make 39/hr plus time and a half after 8. There isn't much for union work in the city but the competition is good enough that guys get treated and paid well. There's also the option of working in the oil sands and making mad bank. Talking 130k/yr for just journeyman working a 14/7 shift or a 9/5 shift. That's if you're into working out of town for 2/3 of your time though. Not for me.

Commercial is good, it's a good mix of hard work at a medium pace. Resi is all about speed and it gets old fast. Not much variation and the work is simple. There's more to commercial but a lot of guys get pigeon holed for certain tasks so you have to stand out if you want a good apprenticeship and if you want the good jobs as a j-man. Sometimes the work can be hard, but it's typically easy. Hardest tasks typically happen when you pull and terminate building feeds, the big wires. Distribution, it's my favorite job. Building elec rooms, mounting all the panels/transformers and equipment and then pulling and terminating it all. It's pretty interesting work.

Pic: 500Kva transformer, 600V to 120/208V

>> No.698975

Gonna copy/paste this post i made in another thread here that 404'd. Didn't get a reply last time.

In New York, even illegals get work as an electrician. Thing is I don't know about who governs the trade, the laws around it like do I need to be licensed or work under a licensed electrician. Last thing I want is to get fined or some shit. Finding someone who works in it isn't THAT difficult, it's just that they're usually not down to apprentice people or be helpful at all really.

I guess the only thing i can realistically do is find someone willing to apprentice me here though... schools are shit?

BTW i think the union accepts like a couple thousand people for their apprenticeships in july every year. Apparently on the day they accept the applications over 5 thousand people apply. The odds of then being chosen are pretty slim, but unionized construction in NYC seems to be top dollar.

Great thread. I've read the whole thing. Keep it coming, guys!

>> No.698990

>>698932
excuses why anon is in a shittier job at shittier ages.

>>698941
your suggestion as a dead end job, with shit pay, and an early disability check.

Just because you think your job is swell, doesn't make it so.

>> No.699017

>>698990
I'm soree no wan likes u or valyous ur werk, anon. may be you should go to /soc and leave us the fuck allone

>> No.699098

>>697357
Autodesk's educational program doesn't care if you're actually a student or not.
They'll hand out a student license for even fake emails. They don't check at all.

>> No.699230

I just finished my EE and I'm confuse on what should I learn now?

I'm had interviews for position that does maintenance and repair. But I'm not sure if I should study for this stuff now but then not getting job after all.

I don't really want to waste my time mostly doing nothing so I really want learn something through books or videos. What do EE actually do?

>> No.699236

>>699230
As for me, i've got the jobs first after graduate and plan to get some professional certificate later.

The plan is to get jobs experience first while using what i earn to pay the professional course.

But in the end, i never proceed with that idea.
Once you got job, you'll stuck with that or jump to another better job.

> What do EE actually do?
Some of the works i did is to design PCB.
While you already study on how to design circuit, only experience can teach you how to keep cost down, how to produce reliable design, parts/stock availability, etc.

You'll have more task if you work in small company, but in return you'll learn a lot more.

>> No.699254

>>696467
>Tfw I'm an engineer and I learned in some scale wage jobs of ours, the electrical helpers make $30/hr and foremen make up to $55/hr.
God dammit. 6 figures for those fucks?

>> No.699271

>>699098
If you start sending your student stuff around professionally it polices itself though.

>> No.699278

>>697078
>>697050
i used to be a network technician that also installed fire/security for a little company in town, electrocution isn't that bad.
I got grabbed by 120v on an aluminum ladder, just tensed up real hard and fell on my ass, shit was hilarious.
if you're careful and keep a hand behind your back, you can get away with working on lots of hot circuits. the only reason i got popped was some jackass flipped the breaker and we didn't have lockouts or anything.

>> No.699323

>>697050
>Working on a fpb. Pretty new to controls and electrical in general.
>Retrofitting controls on 43 identical boxes.
>On box 31. I kill the disconnect, controller dies. I start fucking with the heat relay.
I wake up 5 min later on the floor, can't move my arm, hurts like hell. Guy I was working with standing over me freaking the fuck out. Turns out shoulder is dislocated and I had some relatively minor burns on my arm and hand. He already called 911 so I go and they pop my shoulder in and give me some shit.
>Turns out this one heat strip was wired before disconnect.
>My arm was resting on the ceiling grid, and somehow my screwdriver and I got hit. Fell off the 10ft ladder and somewhere along the way blacked out. Landed on my shoulder/arm. Took down a decent amount of ceiling grid.

>> No.699329

>>699323
Another job:
>Guy was checking out devices on large AHU.
>rh sensor bad, he pulls it off and leaves the wires hanging out and stripped back still.
>Mexican comes by carrying pipe. Somehow gets hit by 24v on exposed wire. Drops pipe on foot, "hurts" foot.

>> No.699384

>>699329
When I was younger,working as a laborer for a general contractor, I was digging trenches for some electricians inside of an auditorium we were adding onto a high school. Do this four two days. On the third day my piece of shit truck wouldn't start when I came out in the morning. Had to get my neighbor to give me a jump, ended up about an hour late. Get to the job and there are fire trucks and ambulances fucking everywhere. My boss runs up to me all fucking wild eyed, "where the fuck have you been, anon?". Start to explain about my truck, he cuts me off, "holy shit, I thought you were dead!". I'm like, what the fuck? Apparently there were wind gusts that took down a huge block wall, killing all eleven electricians on the job. One of the guys wives lived down the road and heard about it on the news. She was there rage screaming and sobbing. I went and sat in my truck and chain smoked like a pack of cigarettes, freaking the fuck out.

Fast forward ten years, now working as a mason. I am an absolute maniac about bracing free standing walls. "Hey, masonfag, don't you think there is enough bracing on that wall?"
"More. Fucking. Bracing."

>> No.699387

>>699384
Four, four guys died. Didn't mean to exaggerate.
Link- http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=110&dat=19980825&id=_exOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XkwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6829,5495976

>> No.699403

>>699384
My old man had a near death not far off this

>Working fitting roofs on some small scottish island
>in the portacabin enjoying coffe after night out
>all the guys chatting
>suddely half of cabin is gone
>mobile crain overloaded and fell ontop
>if it had been at the other end everyone of them would be potted meat

>> No.699405

I have a question for the Masons in this thread.

How important is lime in a mortar mix?

Wouldn't one part portland cement and 3 parts sand suffice? What's the lime for?

>> No.699414

>>699405
It makes the mortar more plastic, and is actually more important than the cement. Old school mortar was made with a three to one mix of sand and lime. That's also the stuff we used in trade school. The Portland cement makes it way stronger obviously, but being able to work with the mud is the most important part. Your mortar is mixed right when you can pick up a bunch with your trowel, snap your wrist down to remove the excess, and the turn the trowel over and have the mud stick to the trowel and not come off. Without the lime it wouldn't work. Hope that answers your question.

-masonfag

>> No.699422
File: 41 KB, 1867x123, immortalizedforever.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
699422

>>699414
your words will live on

>> No.699423

>>699403
Fook me, that would be scary as well. I've been in construction for quite a while (like 20 years), and it is a seriously dangerous profession. I posted the one you responded to, but another one that I saw was at Ford field in detroit.
> be mason, tuckpointing and doing piddly shit
> hear big crash, people screaming
> wtf? Run over to see what's up
> painter on a fucking huge boom lift fall over go boom. Brains, blood everywhere.
Holy shit.
Link - http://www.michigan.gov/documents/CIS_WSH_minwssm03_73067_7.pdf

>> No.699426

>>699422
Lol, thanks. I think.

>> No.699433

>>699414
Cool. it's not for brick laying, I'm using it more as a filler for a bench.

I poured a slab of concrete and I'll be setting it on 3 concrete block. I'm worried it cracking under it's own weight so I figured using mortar would distribute the load more evenly.

In your opinion, would a 3:1 sand mix work for this? Workability is a non issue. It doesn't have to be pretty, just functional.

>> No.699443

>>699433
I suppose so, it will just be really crumbly I suppose. You know for like 4 or 5 bucks you can pick up a bag of pre-mixed mortar at a big box store. Either way, good luck!

>> No.699459

>>699443
I don't want to buy 66lbs pounds of something when I only need 0.5lb. I already have enough clutter in my shed.

>> No.699492

>>699459
go buy a tub of furnace cement. It is designed to seal the penetration where a vent pipe penetrates the wall and liner of a chimney.
Should work fine for your application and is cheap enough to use what you need, and toss the rest.

>> No.699508

op move to Alberta like I did and get an apprenticeship in under a week. Work for 4 years and get your red seal and move home and be able to get a job.

>> No.699525

>>699254
>electrical helpers
What do they do?
Also, how does that stack up to what engineers do/ how much they're paid?

>> No.699531

>>699508
How do people even get apprenticeships, bro? Not OP btw.

NYCguy here.

>> No.699541

>>699531
for you and your area you will most likely have to join the union. For me all I had to do was apply to a company and they set me up by paying for schooling and what not.

>> No.699545

>>699525
They pull wire, carry shit and install repetitive simple shit like VAV boxes all while being able to pass a drug test.
Usually make like $9-$13 a hour. Foremen/job runners usually make $23-$30 a hour.

And by engineering in this case, I size valves, select equipment to be used and make submittals 100% of the time.
Smaller jobs, I write the sequences, and on like every tenth job I'll actually help program and/or commission the system.
Salary translates to $34 a hour but after unpaid overtime, is closer to $27-30. Not counting benefits.

>> No.699549

>>699545
I hope you enjoy your job or else that just sucks.

On a sidenote, how hard is it exactly for tradesmen to pull off being stoners if that's even possible at all?

>> No.699554

>>699549
not that guy you were talking too.. but most of the time you have the shitty guys who come and go... they are alcoholics and stoners a lot of times. Then there are the guys who realize that its a career and they should fuck up. The worst part is if a guy at my company gets hurt they piss test him. If he pops up hot for anything they will not cover him, even though weed is legal here in colorado. Insurance companies have sided with federal regulations on that issue soo dont get hurt. Also in the future you should know that you wont be covered as you will have a hard time proving you were not high at work. Stoners and alcohols are in every trade but certain trades more often than others... drywallers, painters, HVAC, glass, seem to drink and smoke a lot.

>> No.699559

>>699554
Don't they screen for all that? Here in NYC in order to get a position as an apprentice, one would have to pass a drug screening which is a piss test i guess.

I woulda thought a lot of these guys would get 'weeded out' before they'd even get to work. And yeah i realize the federal prohibition means we get screwed in ways a drinker might not.

What's the scene for electricians like in Colorado anyway? I'm kind of a stoner and i'd like to go out there and work... Just need to get started here and get some experience first, but Colorado is definitely somewhere i see myself in 5 years time.

>> No.699567

>>699554
Fucking HVAC is going to be duct monkeys.
Being high and trying to figure out control wiring ain't happening.

>> No.699745

>>699549
It depends on the size of job.
Large jobs, you'll only get drug tested before you step on the site and if you're involved in an accident.
Smaller jobs you may not get tested at all, or you may have to get access to the site.
Your company may also randomly test, or test to fire you. I've picked up guys we wanted gone and taken them to pee.
>If they just ask you if you'll pass, they want to keep you.

>> No.699908

>>699559
Well dont expect to work a lot if you are union unless you go with the poco or some other industrial stuff. Commercial and residential is pretty much all open shop stuff. Expect a giant cost of living change (cheaper) and dont expect to be paid as much. As far as the rest goes, in the North East there is a giant union vs non-union rivalry and I have heard a bunch of stories about how bad it can get... but here we really dont have that and everyone pretty much gets along.

>>699567
yes the duct monkeys are who I am talking about.. most of the controls work (temperature control) is done by older sparkies who just dont have it in them to bend pipe and pull big feeders or dig anymore... not judging because I see myself there in about 10-15 years.

>> No.699934

>>699908
control wiring is not done by electricians around here. It is done by mostly older HVAC/R guys who Honeywell and other companies hired, and trained, because it is easier to teach an HVAC/R computer skills and PLCs, etc, than it is to teach a computer electron humper HVAC/R.

When I decide to stop ladder humping and wrench turning, I will go to controls.

>> No.699936

>>699934
Johnson controls and Seimens are big around here, they are technically electricians (same union anyway), but on the low voltage side. Most duct work is done by sheet metal workers. Around here being Detroit, btw.

>> No.699949

>>699936
I in NC. Not the most union friendly place in the world. But control guys are the best paid of any Trade in this area. Even killing HVAC/R techs.

Starting is a bit less than what I make now, but it does not include a lot of ladder humping, and no really "hard work".

>> No.699962

>>699934
Nah. Lets talk about Micheal.
>Be 26, have done controls since I could work. Went to a night school to get a BS in ME. In charge of a small department.
>Boss hires a 50 year old with like "20 years of experience".
>Dumb fuck has never touched a computer before. In fucking 2012. I work with him a little bit every day, he doesn't know right vs left click. I didn't blow his mind with the middle scroll wheel click. I have to do his time for him.
>He can't do anything but field check out work. He gets under our subs skin but they don't have a choice. He gets pissed because he "deserves better and wants to be on the computer instead of on his tools". He talks about how he managed 40 people and talks bullshit all day.
>Another few weeks go by, he gets more and more upset. Boss also tells me he has been signed up for some classes that cost $7k each and he needs to be able to work a computer and have a basic understanding of 2 of our programs. Tell my boss if I can get some overhead time to charge my time to instead of killing my jobs, I'll do my best to train him.
>He forgot his passwords. Get with IT and were on. First complete day is a wash. I talk about what IP means and how to change it, and I go over the 4 main different com protocols we interact with and what cable to use and settings to change. We're both frustrated. He hates this stupid "calculator shit". Tells me tales of golden pneumatic days. How much better those controls were.
>Day 2. He is able to log on without too much help. We spend a long time on 1 way to connect to the bacnet were working on now. I realize I overloaded him the day before with shit were not using right now and I should focus on stuff he can immediately put into use. I set up all his shit for him and take screenshots and tell him to write it down to be sure. I get our controller level program up and carry files over using a flash drive. We spend rest of day on finding files and what to do if he gets lost in it.

>> No.699979

>>699962
>Day 3. Everything is great so far. He logs in, after an extreme amount of time is able to open our program. Opening a file is a mess though. We get it figured out. Its a visual programming program, I expect him to be pretty good at this. After all, he once did a 6ftx60ft relay panel by himself and everything worked the first time. I show him a program I made, explain how its like controllers are, inputs on one side, outputs on other. Etc etc.
>Day 4. Something happens and he reverts. Can't open program. We finally get it open, can't open a file. I open one for him and then make him do it. We go over things, try to get him to learn where everyone usually puts override test blocks and simple shit. Idk why but hes pissed off at me for some damn reason the whole time. I don't know if laptops raped his family and he thinks I commanded them to or what. We get to commonly used control blocks, I tell him about loops and thermostat blocks. He blows up saying he knows this simple shit. I explain hes known nothing computer-related so far, I didn't expect him to know that. He takes it as an insult and says hes going to call our boss and tell him how I've been useless. I tell him just pack his shit and go to the office. He says no and disappears. I call my boss and tell him what happened. I prepare to get some work done but I get a call in about a hour from hefe, says it sounds like its really not working out, wants to know exactly what we've been doing. I tell him then goto lunch. I come back and his stuff his gone.
There was no Day 5 with us. He got pulled and got stuck with someone else doing the same shit he was doing.
He went to Illinois for the first class. Failed it spectacularly. He got his other 2 classes cancelled for obvious reasons, but the training center let him retest remotely 4 more times that I know of.
He worked doing check out and inspecting install for about a year longer, not with me, but kept bitching nonstop. Then got let go thankfully.

>> No.699987

>>699979
Not everyone is computer literate or willing to learn.

Some folks coast on their "abilities" and figure anything worth knowing they know.

But it is easier to take a guy who knows HVAC/R, and teach him controls, than to take a guy who knows controls and teach him HVAC/R.

Mainly because an HVAC/R tech is going to know basic controls, or close analogues, while also being able to glance at a set of plans and spot shit that ain't going to work from a HVAC/R perspective, just because of the years of experience that can not be taught.

I have a close friend who is a HVAC/R tech of great ability. I'll call him in to figure shit out I can't, before I call one of the gurus.
But he couldn't ever be a control guy because he hates computers. Taking pictures of stuff with his phone for future reference is his comfortable skill level.

I could show him the plans for a 10 story hospital that included both the mechanical ductwork and controls, and he could quickly figure out what would work and what is fucked up, though. And he could wire any of the controls to work, as they needed to. But the computer work would knock him right out of the box.

>> No.700210

>>699987
how do you buy a control set for hvac that isn't designed and programmed by an engineer to work with HVAC? pretty much all of engineering is idiot proofing the boxes we spit out.

you goto remember that engineering is the profession where hard science is made available to trades people in convenient packages.

>> No.700403

>>700210
Engineers are fucking idiots when it comes to HVAC. They are usually idiots when it comes to Refrigeration.

Every piece of equipment should be taken apart and assembled back into working condition by an engineer, in a pouring rain storm, with high winds and a 33F temperature, in the dark, before it is allowed to be sold on the market.

And dumbass, PLC controls, along with most other HVAC controls are programmable, hence the need for control guys to set the proper parameters and operations.

>> No.700417

>>700403
Maybe if you had terminated the connections to spec you wouldn't have to go out there to fix your shit all the time.

>> No.700432

>>700417
Maybe if you knew anything, you'd know controls are installed during the building phase, except in retrofits.

And when they break down the line,a HVAC/R tech does the repair and reprogramming.

But then again, that is assuming you know anything other than how your dad uses his painstick on your turd squirter.

>> No.700452

>>700432
gg niggerrigged

>> No.700499

>>700452
sure thing champ.
Positive General contractors, building multi-million dollar buildings, use control techs, because they are nigger riggers.

>> No.700510

>>700432
Every time you try to insult someone, you say that they're gay.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

>> No.700592

>>696518
This so much on both points.