/diy/ - Do It Yourself

[Anonymous No.695893]

>> electricians assistant for almost a year
>>start completely fresh, no schooling prior
>>mostly clean up entire time
>>fat fuck who I work for never wants to show me how to do anything
>>today he expects me to wire in 3 way switches.
>>big fight

How does one wire a 3 way switch. Any other advice regarding electrical terms and advice welcome

[Anonymous No.695899]

google will show you a thousand different ways to do this, but if you can think abstractly, then this simple to memorize drawing (plus a bit of common sense) will let you figure it out for every possible case.

[Anonymous No.695907]

>>695899
While the image shows how a 3-way works, pretty shitty for a dude that has been job site clean up.

Better to show the actual boxes with the poles and the wires, IMNSHO. That way OP can see bow/switch, wires, load, and the other boxes/switches, and follow the current.

[Anonymous No.695917]

If you're working with romex, the feed from the box to the first switch should have three wires: white black and a ground. The wire leaving the box should have four wires: red, black, white, and a ground. The switch itself has four terminals: a ground, and a brass terminal at the bottom, and two silver ones on either side at the top. To wire it, take the wires coming from the feed and hook the black to the brass terminal at the bottom of the switch. The ground wire should be hooked to the switch and the other ground leaving the box, so use a small pigtail ( also if the box itself is metal it must be grounded as well ). The white neutral wire just gets hooked to the other white wire. The black and red get hooked to the silver terminals at the top of the switch (pro style would be to wrap a bit of red tape on that black wire at both ends to indicate that it is in use as a "traveller"). Now just repeat that procedure at the other end in reverse.

Depending on feed locations and such, things can get a little confusing but don't worry, you'll get it.

[Anonymous No.695921]

>>695917
nice word description.
And totally fucking wrong.

OP, never, ever, not for any fucking reason, hook a ground wire to a switch leg.
In fact, never use a switch to ever, for no fucking reason, to break a neutral.

Sitches are for hot wires only.

[Anonymous No.695946]

>>695917

I looked up some stuff on google. I'm starting to understand it more. The common is just the feed? And the travelers are just the jumpers from one 3way to another, and so forth with 3way to fixture.

[Anonymous No.695968]

>>695921
what you dont like getting electrocuted changing a light bulb?

[Anonymous No.695981]

>>695921
not that it would help. considering neutral is tied to ground at the fuse box anyway.

>>695917
light switches are different to power switches. power point switch terminals actually have a ground. light switches do not use a ground. they use a loop. the loop terminal is no different to a screw terminal. it connects to nothing, its just for connecting wires together, as you need to do with multi way xor switching like if you have three light switches for the one light because there are multiple entrances to a garage or lounge or hallway.

light fittings use a four terminal mechanism.
a two core cable leads from the light switch and the light switch switches live. the four terminal light fitting has a port for live, switched live, neutral and ground.

[Anonymous No.695982]

FFS wrong pic

[Anonymous No.696049]

>>695981
never worked on a trailer with an isolated neutral, I see.

>>695968
Not particularly.

[Anonymous No.696057]

>>696049
then ground is tied to neutral at the distribution point/transformer anyway.

[Anonymous No.696074]

>>696057
Actually it is not.
The ground on an isolated neutral panel is tied, wait for it, to ground, via a spike or plate in the ground, while the neutral goes back to the power company's lines.

Shittard "electricians" whose only job is to pull wire and drill holes, ooh and fetch water and clean up the site.

[Anonymous No.696082]

>>696074
This is generally how houses out where I live work also. I don't know what that other guy is talking about when it comes to his weird grounds and neutrals but out here the main panel is grounded to a spike in the ground via either a braided wire (old school) or an large insulated wire (modern). I've never seen a system that didn't have a neutral return out here. Though they do exist they are generally super cheap systems for people living out in the hinterlands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return

[Anonymous No.696087]

>>696074
uhh some of you guys must have skipped over this somehow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_and_neutral

[Anonymous No.696143]

>>696087
uh, you must not be able to understand the term isolated neutral.

The wiki article explained it, but without actually using the term.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-ac-dc/195166-reason-isolated-neutral-subpanel.html

[Anonymous No.696160]

I hope everyone in this thread realises that there are multiple ways to wire "neutral" and that the acceptable list of methods is different from country to country (and from code to code)? Right?

[Anonymous No.696181]

>>696160

I do, which is why OP ALWAYS needs to specify where he is so people who are familiar the codes for that region can give the correct information while those from elsewhere can refrain from giving inappropriate information.

[Anonymous No.696185]

>>696181
>those from elsewhere can refrain from giving inappropriate information.
You're dreaming. This is /diy/, where armchair experts clamour over each other to give dangerous and unsubstantiated claims. God help us all.

[Anonymous No.696190]

>>695893

ok, so you have pretty much been a JANITOR for a year. you are not an electricians assistant you are a JANITOR. if you were his assistant you weould be running wires drilling holes and mounting boxes. and maybe occasionally doing the actual wiring of circuits. The fact you have no schooling or any experience as an electrician and dont seem to know anything about electrical tells me you need to go to a trade school and take a course and LEARN, you obviously arent learning anything "on the job" except how to sweep a floor and throw away trash... I would cringe if someone like you di any electrical in my house because you GOOGLED how to wire a switch. do yourself a favor go LEARN how to do the work properly and then go work for someone else this guy is obvioudly using you ass his bitch slave.

You are pathetic op you are letting this fatass walk all over you and you are gaining nothing but janitorial skills. step up nigga take control of the situation and stop being fatboys bitch

[Anonymous No.696281]

>>695893
I got you my nigga. This is a pretty decent channel to learn basics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmstFAC8oPM

[Anonymous No.696299]

>>696185

I was referring to those who actually do know what they're doing, but you have a valid point there which I overlooked.

[Anonymous No.696301]

2 wire to your first 3way switch
3 wire to your second 3way switch
2 wire to your load

the white conductor gets spliced all the way to the load.
use the red and black in your 3wire as travelers between switches

[Anonymous No.696302]

>>696301
forgot pic

[Anonymous No.696303]

or

this way. pic related.
use the white and red as travelers to the second 3way

[Anonymous No.696308]

you people should he helping OP find a trade school or some online course to LEARN this stuff, so he stops being fatboys janitor all day.

[Anonymous No.696309]

>>696308
thats how it is

you do all the shit work and cleaning for the first few years

[Anonymous No.696312]

>>696308
I already did, faggot. See this video here >>696281 . Teaches you how to actually put the shit together.

[Anonymous No.696327]

I think this is what you want op.

[Anonymous No.696345]

> I think this is what you want op.

you're just showing one of several possibilities. the specific placement relative to each other of the 4 elements (120V source, SW1, SW2, lamp) determines the actual wiring you'll need. for example, the lamp could be the closest thing to the breaker box, so you might do it this way. (pic)

also, if there are some cables already in place, you have to take those into account. it's hard to memorize all the possibilities, so you need to use logic each time, or you end up using too much cable and charging too much.

[Anonymous No.696399]

>>695893
Dude, I'm not even an electrician and I know how to do a lot of that stuff. If they aren't showing you anything then at the very least read a fucking book.

I'd read how to do it from a book or even Google before I'd ask here.

Stay in school kids.

[Anonymous No.696414]

>>695921
Uh, there is a green screw that is for the ground wire on most (if not all) switches. That is where you hook the ground.

[Anonymous No.696420]

why do you guys call it a 3-way switch?
the switch only has 2 positions.
the number of locations is in theory infinite.
where does the 3 come in?

>>696281
>you will never see 'on/off' on a 3 way switch
omfg are you for real?

you people actually sell single throw switches?
what is it like to live in the most electrically retarded country in the world?
why the fuck do you need writing on your switches? pro-tip: if you can't read the writing then the light is off.

[Anonymous No.696426]

>>696160
In my area of the USA isolated neutrals are mandatory on mobile homes,aka trailers.

Building ground goes to true earth ground and neutral goes back to power company lines.

I do not know how or why other places do it other ways, but the NEC says do it that ay, and everything in the NEC is there, because somebody died.

[Anonymous No.696430]

>>696420
>why do you guys call it a 3-way switch?
Americans call it a three way switch because a single pole, double throw switch has 3 wires connecting into it. Like a 3 way intersection. Most other countries call it a two way switch because it has two wires leaving the switch and they don't count the one supplying power. It has nothing to do with the physical lever of the switch.

>you people actually sell single throw switches?
Single pole, single throw switches are quite common when you only need a single switch to control something. Why would I bother with a more complex and expensive switch to control the light in my bedroom or the fan in my bathroom? To be fair, its not like anyone reads the writing. Many switches don't even have writing on them even if they are single pole, single throw.

I know this is 4chan but feel free to keep your trolling and berating retardedness to /b/ or one of the other gutter boards. We don't like to deal with it here and its against the rules.

[Anonymous No.696461]

>>696430
ha thats crazy you have a 4 way switch as well?
you just call it after the number of connections?
guess i never really thought about it before.

its pretty difficult to find just a spst switch over here, economies of scale and all that i suppose, makes it real easy to add a second switch. all the rooms in our house with more than one entry point have multiple switch locations.

and sorry, i didn't mean to cause you such extensive butthurt, oh great one.
just never stop being astounded at american electrical practices.

[Anonymous No.696463]

>>696461
We add three ways when a room has multiple entrances.
If it doesn't, what is the purpose of a three way?
Fuck off yuoropean and deal with the shitty place you live.

[Anonymous No.696466]

>>696463
Don't be a dick to euro-bros. This is /diy/, not /b/ or /v/ where everyone just tries to constantly shit on everyone else.

[Anonymous No.696480]

>>696466
not trying to shit, but to point out the obvious.
The USA doesn't have 800 sq feet homes, like the eurofags do.
And we have plenty of rooms that only need one switch, because we don't live like niggers.

[Anonymous No.696494]

>>696480
>he's never seen nigs living in section 8 homes

Sometimes they live an even better life than us.

>>696466
>calls america the most electrically retarded
>backpedals this hard when shown he's the retard

step it up bongistani

[Anonymous No.696545]

>>695921
This. The hot wire is switched. Continuous bonded ground always. Couple that general advice with the diagram in:
> 695899
will serve you well.

> 696414
And no, there's not usually a ground on the switch, unless the part you touch to turn the switch on or off was metal, like some commercial switches (which you don't have).

> 695981
Ground is not connected to neutral in any house a the "fuse" box in any house that had the wiring touched and passed inspection in decades.

[Anonymous No.696547]

>>696430
> Most other countries call it a two way switch because it has two wires

Nope. Most countries call it a two way switch because it can be switched from two places, and then if you ad an intermediate or two in the middle it becomes a three way or a 4 way switch

[Anonymous No.696548]

>>696545
And no, there's not usually a ground on the switch

Self-correction, I forgot yanks often use plastic boxes. Won't pass code in many places, even 3rd world, but oh well.

I always wondered if the fumes of the plastic when it burns are what actually kills. Some guy mentioned that the NEC code has a rule if someone died. The AFCI rule for bedrooms was because 1100 people died every year from burning plastic fumes.

[Anonymous No.696555]

>>696548
Yeah, metal box, no ground to the switch. Since the box is grounded and the switch is screwed to the box, why bother? Plastic box, may they burn in hell, means you gotta ground the switch.

380-9. Provisions for Snap Switch Faceplates
(a) Position. Snap switches mounted in boxes shall have faceplates installed so as to completely cover the opening and seat against the finished surface.
(b) Grounding. Snap switches, including dimmer switches, shall be effectively grounded and shall provide a means to ground metal faceplates, whether or not a metal faceplate is installed. Snap switches shall be considered effectively grounded if either of the following conditions are met.
1. The switch is mounted with metal screws to a metal box or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for grounding devices.
2. An equipment grounding conductor or equipment bonding jumper is connected to an equipment grounding termination of the snap switch.

[Anonymous No.696567]

>>696555
Oh yeah, that's another thing this guy needs to do. You want to do this shit for a living? Buy a copy of the electrical code, read and understand it. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.696572]

>>696426
I doubt you're correct. Neutral is bonded to ground at the power meter everywhere, except maybe that ground return system, but that's crazy talk.

Power company neutral is bonded to ground every couple poles too. And to any other utility on the pole with conductive wires. Ground is bonded to neutral fucking everywhere because five or twenty kohn resistance is lousy for fault flpritection.

Mobiles are grounded at the power meter, and their frames.

[Anonymous No.696623]

>>696572
Once again,you do not know what you are talking about.
In the USA the main breaker panel has both a neutral bus bar and a ground bus bar. Normally they are connected, and there is always a grounding wire from the ground bus bar to a real earth ground,

With an isolated neutral, the two bus bars are not connected, and the neutral feeds back to the neutral power lines.

When the power company runs their drops from the transformer to a house, there are two insulated wires and a bare ground. That gives the 220/120 and the ground and neutral, combined in one bare wire.

On a trailer the drop from the transformer to the meter, which is mounted on a frame not attached to the trailer, is three insulated wires and a bare wire.The two black insulated wires are the 220/120, the black wire with the white line along its length is the neutral and the bare wire is the power companies ground.

If you can't follow that fucktard, go find a fire to die in.

[Anonymous No.696644]

>>696623
I hope you get banned so you can be more butthurt

[Anonymous No.696669]

OP, buy a copy of the 2014 NEC Handbook. It tells you what you are ALLOWED to do (where things should be located, whether a fridge should have a dedicated receptacle/outlet, what type of breakers to use GFCI, AFCI, regular; etc.). You will not be able to just sit down, read it, and walk away with the slightest bit of understanding. What you do is try to memorize the TABLE OF CONTENTS, and research a particular topic as it comes up for a job. They want you to wire in a 3-way switch--check the table of contents and see if switches and wires are covered anywhere. (they are)

The NEC does not tell you how to DESIGN CIRCUITS. You will need to do some research with google on that one, and of course there are books you can buy, and probably free books as well. Someone posted some diagrams of how to wire a 3-way switch, which is great. I find them a little confusing without translating them into the "circuit diagram" version, like:
>>696302
(he forgot to show the ground-wire, but it actually makes it less cluttered to understand)
Draw these circuits yourself, right now. ("You understand by doing.")
Hell, just googling "electrical fixtures pdf" gives some great hits. If you want a book suggestion to buy, try "Wiring a House, 4th Edition."

The NEC, for the most part, does not tell you how to do GOOD WORKMANSHIP (leave enough wire in junction boxes and switches to REWORK the job, make sure fixtures are level, make sure distribution panels don't look like a clusterfuck). You need to see examples of good workmanship and compare them to examples of bad workmanship to learn this.

The NEC does not tell you how to bend conduit, but there are a lot of free/purchasable resources that can tell you how to do it if your boss is too stupid and/or selfish to.

You get the idea.

[Anonymous No.696794]

>>696623
Yes. I work on these every day. They are all grounded at the demarc and common with neutral. The neutral is grounded every 500 feet. You are insane.

[Anonymous No.696842]

>>696794
And you are a liar.
I see the isolated neutral, every time I go to work on a trailer.

Keep shit posting faggot, and make /diy/, just like /b/.

[Anonymous No.696861]

>>695893
sounds like you are getting fucked at that company, Start looking for a new job right away and make sure they will pay for your schooling. Do not tell the next company that you know how to do anything and restart your apprenticeship.

[Dave No.696874]

If you work for a scumbag who won't show you how to do anything QUIT IMMEDIATELY....This is EXACTLY what I did as a new tradesmen on my first job...The 2nd jod I worked there for 12 years ...I should have left after about 4 years because I wasn't learning anything else at that point....The ONLY reason to take a job is to learn all you could and put your scumbag boss out of business....YES!!!...All bosses are scumbags...Put up with it until you learn enough to scumbag him.....

[Anonymous No.697102]

> QUIT IMMEDIATELY

having been in similar situations, I know that sometimes the kid they give you is just too dense to learn anything. you'd have better luck training your cat to ''fetch''. since you always have a deadline, you cant be wasting 50% of your time teaching the dumb ass, and the other 50% checking over his work, coz if you do, nothing gets done. so, you keep the kid around doing menial stuff until he fucks off.

If OP had shown a tiny bit of initiative and read some material on his own, he'd at least show a willingness to learn. but he failed that test coz he wants to be spoon-fed.

[Anonymous No.697205]

3 way switching looping at light

[Anonymous No.698672]

Is there a good book or site for reading simple to huge schematic either for electronic or real big wiring system.

[Anonymous No.698981]

>>696545
USA fucktard.
NEC allows ground and neutral to be bonded in the panel, except in the cases of mobile homes which require an isolated neutral.

[Anonymous No.698983]

>>696644
sure thing ass wipe.

>>696794
And so?
Point being, from the panel, to the meter base to the transformer, the ground and neutral are separate, on a mobile home.

That way, a loss of neutral or ground, will not result in people being electrocuted. Both have to fail, before the meter base, for that to happen.

GO BACK TO DRILLING HOLES IN STUDS AND PULLING WIRES, AND LEAVE THE MORE COMPLICATED PARTS OF WIRING TO PROS.

[Anonymous No.698986]

>>698981
you need to include when the main disconnect is at the panel. The neutral bond rule really states that you bond only at the 1st point of disconnect and nowhere else as it creates a parallel path for the unbalanced current, but yeah you are more or less correct... don't really know about mobile homes as I have never had to do one.

>>696545
There is always a ground on a switch.. it bonds the metal of the switch... it is not being switched its just a bonding screw... stop being a tard.

[Anonymous No.698988]

>>698986
Every neutral circuit in a mobile home has to be run back to an isolated neutral in the main panel.

Only time an isolated neutral, outside a mobile home comes into play, as far as my experience goes, is when trying to balance a three phase building, with mixed loads, ie. steady currents versus variable loads from motors and such.

[Anonymous No.698991]

>>698988
do you have a code reference for this.. I would like to read through that area out of curiosity

[Anonymous No.698992]

>>698991
or are you saying ech circuit has to have its own neutral? how do you make an isolated neutral in the 1st place? Do you just not bond the ground and say fuck grounding the building?

[Anonymous No.698993]

>>698988
Oh I might have figured it out.. its because neutral is bonded at the buildings pedestal so by doing it at the panel then you have violated 250.6.. ok makes sense now.

[Anonymous No.698997]

>>698991
>>698992
>>698993
The power company runs two hot wires, an insulated neutral and a bare ground; to mobile home meters. And the meter and main disconnect are built on a separate base away from the mobile home.

Then from the main disconnect, the power goes into the mobile home to the main panel, where ground and neutral are not bonded.

This prevents the mobile home frame from becoming hot, if the ground or neutral fails. Both would have to fail for that to happen.

And I can post NEC code tomorrow. Ain't going to go out to work van, find code book, and come back to post it at almost 10:30pm. Fricking paperwork, vodka and humping a ladder prevents it.

[Anonymous No.699000]

>>698993
And anon, I got some non-homo love for ya.
Someone who not only owns a NEC, but understands it.

And protip, I ain't an electrician.

HVAC/R fag who has to know every trades' fucking job.

[Anonymous No.699397]

>>698997
it doesnt stop the frame from being hot.. the frame is grounded and at the main disco the neutral is always bonded at the 1st point of disconnect. (the separate meter and main will have the system bonding jumper).. they just dont do it at the panel because that would put the neutral and the ground in parallel and thats a no no.

>meter and main disconnect are built on a separate base

In my area we commonly call this a pedestal

[Anonymous No.699401]

>>695893
Is this a repost? I saw this exact thread a while back with the same couple of first responses.
Stop making these shitty threads, we all know you're too retarded to understand something simple like 3 way switches, I don't want to see this shit every month.

[Anonymous No.699437]

>>699397
I think the reason why neutral and ground (or protecting earth) are separated is because neutral actually carries a big fucking amount of current and you don't want to put that current to the metal case of devices and stuff. So you only join them as far as possible from the house.

[Anonymous No.699447]

>>699437
well ground leads back to neutral so a breaker or fuse will trip and the 1st point of disconnect is a good common place so it doesnt get tied in more than once. If it does then we get more than one path for the unbalanced load to travel. This can create a difference of potential from one metal object such as the metal frame to say the copper water pipe... differences in potential will result in a shock.

[Anonymous No.699452]

>>695893
Here, op.

[Anonymous No.699453]

>>699397
Around here they do not bond them in the main disconnect on what you called a pedestal, nor or they joined inside the meter can.

[Anonymous No.699461]

>>699453
I dont think you know as much about all the "other fucking trades" as you think you do.

[Anonymous No.699478]

>>699453
It is literally criminal for the power company to not ground their equipment, and I can't think of any reason they would run an extra neutral to every house in the country.

[Anonymous No.699487]

>>699461
I might not, but I damn sure am capable of seeing which wires are connected to what, fucktard.

The ground and neutral are kept separated to at least the meter can. After leaving the meter can and running back to the transformer, I have never took the time to climb the pole and check what is going on there.

HVAC/R tech.
Needs to know my trade, electrical, plumbing, roofing, carpentry, Sheetrock, flooring, masonry; just to mention a few.
There is a reason an HVAC/R tech makes more than any other trade. When have you seen a plumber with conduit benders and hickeys, or an electrician with a full set of PEX crimpers? Not to mention speed squares, pipe freezing kits, knock outs, and even fucking two different shovels and a rake, along with a machete and brush saw? And could include such things as several different meters, levels, flexible drill bits, several different types of torches, PVC cutters, and all kinds of other "Trade Specific" tools.

Stay jelly biotch.
When you are capable of doing any trades skill set, the money flows like water in a river.

[Anonymous No.699494]

>>699478
They run them to mobile homes fucktard.
L2Read.

[Anonymous No.699495]

>>699487
RAWR IM AND HVAC/R TECH i KNOW ALL ABOUT EVERYTHING AND SPOUT RETARDED SHIT AS FACT, HOW DARE YOU EVER QUESTION MY KNOWLEDGE AS i HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 400 YEARS AND THEN SOME. i TAUGHT TESLA WHAT A WATT IS AND i KNOW HOW TO SUCK A MEAN DICK.

tbh you sound like a dumb fuck handy man. Nobody cares what you do or who you are. Jack of all trades master of none. Stop spouting off like you know everything because you don't.

[Anonymous No.699499]

>>699487
http://www.hvac-hacks.com

Yeah, you residential techs are awesome. On any commercial job you install your shit, not fuck around doing things that are taken care of by other trades.

[Anonymous No.699500]

>>699487
I have never seen a neutral/insulated wire from power. I have seen the support strand they wrap their hot phases on. This gets strapped to the house in some house to provide mechanical support. It also gets bonded to the house's neutral, usually right at the weatherhead. Do you think one of the two black wires is neutral? They are both hot. The uninsulatednsupport strand is neutral, which is bonded to ground every 500 ft.

Do you live in the center of Australia the last place on earth with single line ground return? Do you normally work on 50kv dc ground return distribution lines? Do you actually understand how this shit works? Do you know volts are different from one spot of earth to another?

[Anonymous No.699503]

>>699499
I just saved that to my bookmarks. I will be adding pictures at least monthly. Have you seen how some of them leave their line sets?

[Anonymous No.699504]

>>699503
Yeah, some nasty looking fuckers on there. I'm sure all those guys are "seasoned" professionals.

[Anonymous No.699506]

>>699504
fuck it.. its on a roof nobody will see it.

[Anonymous No.699509]

>>699495
rawwrfrr, your image talks about a specific bonding issue, and does not address mobile homes. Try again faggot.

>>699499
Hmm, I'll give you new construction on that aspect. But let's talk about commercial replacement or even residential replacement of units. Or shit like going from a 80+ to 90+ gas furnace. Or retrofitting gas packs on a buildingthat had only space heaters.

See faggot, the lesser trades get locked into "this is the same shit I do every day" ideology, and don't realize that other Trades actually do different shit, every day, multiple times.

>>699500

L2Read. I clearly stated that mobile home feeds from the transformer have three insulated wires and one bare. Two hots, a neutral and a ground.

Do you want to discuss the differences between a grounding rod, and a grounding plate? Or maybe how you can consider 10' of metal water supply line as a ground, if bonded correctly?

How about the high leg of a Delta- T transformer? I know, lets discuss balancing the load of a multi-use manufacturing location, that uses a mix of single phase and three phase motors, along with static loads from the lights, and a history of supplied power running lower than specs.

Unless you want to discuss the safety procedures and practices of changing out transformers on transmission lines?

All shit I have had to deal with as an HVAC/R tech.

[Anonymous No.699510]

>>699509
no my image addresses 250.30 which is common to ALL electrical systems.

[Anonymous No.699516]

>>699510
In fact, it is not.
Mobile homes require by code, NEC that is, to be serviced with an isolated neutral from the transmission point.

Your shit image shows the "rules" for shit that is not a mobile home.

I will go and take some pictures for your retarded ass in the next eek or two and show you exactly how mobile homes are wired from the transformer to the main disconnect.

Protip, 4 fucking conductors. Two hots, one bare and one insulated neutral.
From transformer to meter can, just saying faggot.

[Anonymous No.699518]

>>699516
not even disagreeing with that you stubborn fuck I think you are just stupid when you say that the neutral and the ground are completely separate and not bonded. It just makes you look like you have no idea what you are doing.

While you are there you might want to open up the 1st point of disconnect and take a picture of that neutral bond for me too.

seems kinda tough to rake in a bunch of money if you are working for this many mobile homes

[Anonymous No.699522]

>>699509
You are extremely ambiguous on this stupid grounding thing, you are such an ass, it's like I'm being trolled.

>Around here they do not bond them in the main disconnect on what you called a pedestal, nor or they joined inside the meter can.

Of course after the PGE they run an isolated neutral to any sub panels. Fuck. The PGE is almost always in the main panel/demarc. Almost definitely where the meter is.

They don't run an isolated neutral to the PGE because it is literally the same thing as ground to the power company, and running another neutral along with the ground would be dangerous for the same reasons you have said earlier why they are kept isolated at sub panels.

[Anonymous No.699523]

>>699516
NEC is just a company that sells expensive books.

[Anonymous No.699532]

>>699518
Um, I have 27 years doing HVAC/R.
Do the math,faggot.

The main breaker panel, neutral and ground, not bonded.

Disconnect for the entire feed, not bonded.

Meter can. Two hots, to the feet for the meter, a bare wire from the mobile home connected to a bus bar,and a bare wire from the transformer connected to same bus bar.
OMG

An insulated wire from the main panel to the main disconnect, connected to a bus bar, with an insulated conductor from the the transformer to the same bus bar.

And the bare wire bus bar is not bonded to the insulated wire bus bar.

Oh my; we have a neutral, ran from the transformer all the way into the main breaker panel, that is not attached at any point to the ground.

Maybe we should call that an "isolated neutral".

[Anonymous No.699535]

>>699522
Again, explain the two hots, a bare ground and an insulated neutral coming from the transformer, bitch.

>>699523
You are a fucking idiot.
Out of all the code books, the NEC is the only fucking one that makes any sense.
Mainly because 99.99% of it addresses stuff that caused folks to die.

Go find a fire.

[Anonymous No.699540]

>>699532
Neutral and Ground are still bonded out there... you just arent familiar with the system well enough to realize that ALL 110/220v single phase, 120/208v 3 phase, 120/240v 3 phase, 277/480v 3 phase systems have a neutral bond.

You are either drunk, stupid, both or this is the most elaborate trolling ever as you constantly post in multiple threads about how special a snowflake an HVAC/R tech is.

[Anonymous No.699548]

>>699532
Are you sure you know what a transformer is?

[Anonymous No.699550]

>>699548
He should have a healthy understanding of transformer theory as most HVAC systems have a small one that drops voltage down to 24v.. but knowing this guy I doubt it.

[Anonymous No.699556]

>>699540
Define, out there.
At the transformer?
If so, then read my posts and see what I said.
I clearly said that the neutral and the ground are not bonded at the meter can. Hence the transformer is beyond that, just saying for a retard.

And that 277 wild leg, wouldn't be used on a mobile home, since they are single phase circuits, not three phase hooked to a Delta-Wye. Try again faggot anon.

Money talks and bullshit walks. There ain't any other trade, in my state, who you can show that makes what I make, with the same years of experience.

If it heats or cools, or if it is in a commercial kitchen, including microwaves; I can fix it. Chiller, boiler, geothermal, standard air exchange, Hobart, Delfield, or any of the other kitchen commercial appliances, WTF ever.
Including dual 12 cam driven electro-mechanical commercial washing machines with 6 hp motor for extraction and 1 hp motor for agitation, and the 1903 gas fired roller/presser at the same location.

I don't bend the same conduit, or wire the same three switches everyday. Not an HVAC tech.
Not a Refrigeration tech.
I am an HVAC/R tech.

When I spent a few years working for the State Government as a Maintenance Mechanic IV, I was expected to repair anything that was broken. From a loose receptacle, to a bad ballast, to a 100 pair phone wire, to a 1.5 million BTU boiler. Or the control PLCs for a 15 ton brake, or a 14' shear, or a plasma cutter.

And when I went full on, just HVAC/R, I found out that a Maintenance Mechanic IV, was a hack who had a little knowledge.

[Anonymous No.699557]

>>699556
Oh man, I want pics of your 100 pair splice

[Anonymous No.699558]

>>699550
HVAC uses one, for controls. Refrigeration uses line voltage. Either a 1145V peeled off or a full 208/240 or even 460V in some of the larger units.

And let's go back to Delta-Wye transformers, which I touched upon.
Want to discuss the uses of a 277 wild leg?

Fucking scrub ass fucktards who do the same shit, every day and think they know their "trade".

[Anonymous No.699560]

>>699557
No you don't.
Phone dudes do a much neater one, any day of the week.
But mine work.
Ain't pretty, but form doesn't always follow function.

[Anonymous No.699561]

>>699556
I hope you step on a plug.

[Anonymous No.699563]

>>699557
Now, the time I tore out a Sprint East Coast main trunk fiber line, including the spooled nest, well, let's say there were some really unhappy folks.

But the 2 50 pair and 1 100 pair cables I also cut, oh well. Bill the State bitches.

[Anonymous No.699565]

>>699561
Sure thing cowboy. And I'll step on it and walk on by. Rubber soled, insulated boots are great, just saying.

[Anonymous No.699566]

>>699560
A lot of phone form is functional. Maintaining groups makes it sane to find a pair. Foldback splices gives enough slack to do a repair. Keeping pairs twisted is vital for shit to function. Keeping them the same length keeps noise down.

I want to lulz at your splice Mr. badass best guy ever, can tell everyone how to do their job because he's HVAC/R

[Anonymous No.699568]

>>699558
sure lets.. break it down for me please...

[Anonymous No.699574]

>>699566
You are thinking that I give a fuck about the phone guy coming behind me.

I don't.

All I am concerned with is that all the conductors are connected properly, as in they work. Noise, ease of future repair, etc, ain't my concern.

>>699568
What do you want broken down, asswipe?
Not here to explain the way transformers work or the need for a 277 wild leg.

If you have a specific question, I will do my best to answer it in a manner your feeble and malformed brain can understand.

[Anonymous No.699576]

>>699574
I bet you fuck your dog.

[Anonymous No.699579]

>>699574
>Everyone should be like me. I'm awesome pro HVAC/R guy. I'm perfect at everything
>Fucks up phone splice
>I don't give a fuck, I don't care about quality or doing a job correctly

Last I heard statute of limitations was 5 years on property damage? You didn't even fill the splice did you? lol, of course you didn't.

Hopefully there is a hi-cap circuit in there and they can bill you by the minute it's down.

[Anonymous No.699581]

>>699574
Ooh, and what connectors did you use? Off brand alarm splices?

You used this shit didn't you? It probably didn't even make it a week before someone else had to come out there and clean up your shit.

[Anonymous No.699583]

>>699581
Did you strip the wires first?

[Anonymous No.699588]

>>699576
if by "my dog" you mean your bitch mother or sister or wife; why yes I do.

>>699579
check it out, I was working for the State at the time. And lol lol, I took out a main east coast trunk fiber line with the nest.

>>699581
Actually no, I used the standard kit we had back in the shop for splicing phone lines. Didn't look like that image.

Nice thing about working for the State. There is a standard set of procedures and a standard set of materials. Follow them both, and no matter what, your ass is safe.

[Anonymous No.699591]

>>699588
I am picturing 4 66 blocks in the bottom of a mud pit somewhere

[Anonymous No.699598]

>>699591
Might be. Once I finished, I did not give a fuck what the nigger convicts did to put it back in place.

Everything worked when I finished splicing. Afterwards, GNGAF.

[Anonymous No.699621]

>>699598
No anon, you are the nigger.

Then anon was a nigger.

[Anonymous No.699644]

>>696414
Nope, plenty of switches don't do that because it's pointless for plastic switches.

[Anonymous No.699645]

>>696414
power points you mean? yeah.
light switches? no.

[Anonymous No.699901]

>>699644
>>699645
Here's a cheapo SPST switch, a Leviton three way and a standard outlet that I grabbed at random from a box of shit from my garage. All of them have a ground screw. I'm not saying that some don't, but all the ones I've installed have them, so I use them.

[Anonymous No.699902]

>>699901
Fuck, forgot pic.

[Anonymous No.699986]

>>699902
#shotsfired

[Anonymous No.699993]

>>699986
You got it. Everyone jumped my shit when I posted this >>695917

Which is an explanation of this >>699452
Which I posted from a wiring handbook based on NEC 2002 (I know its old, but I'm pretty sure three way switches haven't come so far that it's irrelevant)
So when I posted this >>696414
and people said I was full of shit, I thought "Well fuck, maybe I'm wrong?"

>walk into garage
>rummage about, grab random stuff
>look at it
>vindication is mine!