/diy/ - Do It Yourself

[Anonymous No.538832]

Can anyone tell me what to use for a blade? I'd like to make a home made straight razor that doesn't need sharpening too often. I tried a few blades but they don't hold an edge for more then a few strokes. Any suggestions about what kind of blade might be made into a razor?

[Anonymous No.538835]

>>538832

Have you tried hardening it?

[OP No.538838]

Case hardening with heat did not work out well. The heat warped the blade and dulled it. I don't know any other way to harden steel. I know some steel that has aluminum in the mix can be hardened in a melted cyanide salt at a lower temperature but I don't have the cyanide or that kind of steel.

[Anonymous No.538849]

>>538838

Search for ben krasnov on youtube. He recently uploded a video on how to harden steel...

[Anonymous No.538851]

>>538832
For something like that you want high carbon content steel.

[Anonymous No.538974]

>>538832
Lewis Razors on youtube is pretty great, he has an hour long video of him just making a straight razor

[Anonymous No.538984]

>>538838

As a mechanical engineer I can tell you one basic thing: there's no "hardening".

There's "hardening a specific material in specific temperature for a specific time, followed by specific way/time of cooling".

Otherwise you are probably going to fuck up or do nothing at all!

[Anonymous No.538987]

>>538832
At your current level of skill and knowledge it's not possible to get what you want. I would strongly recommend you abandon the idea for now.

Sorry to rain on the DIY aspect of this but even if you could get an appropriate piece of steel, cut it to shape and then harden it successfully you're not in any position to properly sharpen it to make it into a straight razor.

If you've convinced yourself that you just have to start shaving with a cut-throat I would suggest you just buy one of the modest priced ones available these days. The shave you get from this type of razor is totally overrated FYI, and the potential risk is not to be taken lightly (they aren't called cut-throats for no reason).

Not really in the /diy/ wheelhouse but I'd recommend a safety razor as the best shave for the money after straight razors, since you can buy good blades in packs of 100 for cheap (e.g. 17 bucks or so) and one handle should last you most of the rest of your life, if not the entire rest of your life if you buy well.

I'm using one of my dad's old handles —plastic shaft, cast zinc(?) head— gotta be from the 70s or early 80s. It's showing some signs of age but it's perfectly serviceable.

[OP No.539011]

>>538987
>"they aren't called cut-throats for no reason"
FYI: Before King Gillette they were just called "razors." I suspect safety razor manufactures started calling them "cut-throats."

This is the 21'st century. Surely there must be some blades already being manufactured that would hold an edge for shaving. I don't want to hammer out a blade and harden it any more then I want to smelt the steel myself.

So far I've tried a number of blades. I tried a conventional disposable razor blade but it wouldn't hold an edge and was hard to hand sharpen. I believe they just coat the edge of blade with a harder material.

I tried single edge blades, the type used in a paint scraper. They worked moderately well. One was stainless steel so it won't rust. I had to grind the edge thin. It is a bit short and I would like a longer blade.

I tried a snap blade knife replacement. It is not as straight as it appears at first so it took considerable work to thin the edge. It doesn't hold an edge as well as a paint scraper blade.

I tried a utility knife blade. Not being stainless, rusting is a possibility. Thicker then the other blades, it took a while to grind. It works moderately well but still doesn't stay sharp for more then one or two shaves.

Some ideas I haven't tried yet are using a blade for a wood plain and starting with a knife shaped file. Files are made of the hardest steel they so should work best. Thinking about the amount of grinding that would be required is a bit discouraging. Does anyone know of a super hard blade in common use?

[OP No.539020]

>>539011
Correction: I meant to keyboard "wood plane," not "wood plain."
I expect they use a hard steel for the blade so it stays sharp. On the other hand, they may not want it to be brittle.

[Anonymous No.539028]

>>539011
>Files are made of the hardest steel they so should work best.
*Old* files are good steel, hardened well. Newer files out of China are apparently only surface hardened, so caveat emptor.

>Thinking about the amount of grinding that would be required is a bit discouraging. Does anyone know of a super hard blade in common use?
I'm still going to recommend you ditch the idea, but a quick FYI about this: you're missing an important step.

If you start with a very hard steel you don't do major revisions at that hardness! You heat it to red heat, getting rid of the temper, *then* you do any major reshaping at that hardness and when you're ready you reharden and normalise the blade.

[Anonymous No.539029]

>>539011
I kinda suspect you've never seen a straight razor up close so here's a pic that gives a good indication of how they can be ground. See why I say you're not in a position to properly sharpen one?

[OP No.539034]

>>539029
>I kinda suspect you've never seen a straight razor up close

I cut my finger on my granddad's straight razor when I was just a little tyke. Parents, then never let you play with anything fun.

I am more interested in functionality then appearance. I just want to make a resharpenable razor at modest cost.

Oddly enough, they are illegal for professional use by barbers where I am at. I guess it was the fear of AIDS that got them outlawed. But barbers can still use the same shaving brush, comb and scissors from customer to customer. Makes no sense to me.

[Anonymous No.539070]

>>539034
Most barbers would use "shavettes," which are basically straight razor handles with replaceable blades. Saves the trouble of maintaining the blades.

[Anonymous No.539085]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvFO3TqhDj0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUcGjvWlWPtxoN9k-lGsQqpg

[Radiofag No.539086]

>>539070
That's what my barber does.

He has a heated cream dispenser too.

[Anonymous No.539088]

>>539034
>I am more interested in functionality then appearance. I just want to make a resharpenable razor at modest cost.
The proper grind, or something similar-ish, is not just about appearance, it's very much about functionality. By grinding the blade this way it's very thin quite a bit back from the edge (in a way that regular knives aren't) which is what gives it a lot of its performance characteristics.

Anyway, this thread on Knifedogs should help you get a better idea of the labour involved:
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?17526-WIP-Straight-Razor

>at modest cost
Want to give us an idea of the budget you're envisaging?

In case you don't know you also need a good stone for sharpening and a strop (plus compound) for day-to-day edge maintenance.

Since this is /diy/ I should mention you can make your own strop fairly easily if you can get your hands on suitable leather, and for compound you can use just about any decent metal polish. May not work quite as well as a purpose-made product for stropping but it can get the job done.

[Anonymous No.539089]

>>538832
>straight razor that doesn't need sharpening too often
I don't think OP understands hones and strops.

[OP No.539157]

>>539089
>"I don't think OP understands hones and strops."
Grind wheels, whet stones, hones, polishing compounds, strops. Yah, I heard tell of those there aminals.

I don't need leather for a strop. The cardboard that they make into cracker boxes works, the inside of the box. A wood plank works, too.

[Anonymous No.539234]

OP, basically this is the way it works. Straight razors are basically a very specialized form of knife. They are much sharper and more delicate than your average knife, and you sure as hell will be making janky prison shanks before you can make a straight razor. I don't like telling people to ditch a project or idea, but at the very least you're going to want to try to make some knives first before making a straight razor.

[Anonymous No.539376]

>>539157
Please post pictures of the razor and a shave then. This should be good.

[Anonymous No.539483]

>>539089
>I don't think OP understands hones and strops.
I didn't either. Even less so now.

>>539157
>I don't need leather for a strop. The cardboard that they make into cracker boxes works, the inside of the box.
Cardboard does indeed work as a stropping material, a fairly crude one, but a stop nonetheless. If you think that would actually do the job properly for a straight razor it indicates how little you know about them and you're welcome to the awful shave you'll get.

Anyway, I'm done trying to help someone who hasn't shown the least gratitude for any advice that's been proffered.

>>539376
Indeed it would. Never going to happen though.

[Anonymous No.539501]

>>538832
Use some high carbon steel and get or find extra to practice your technique on.Then heat treat and sharpen after shaping.And fuck these other people the best way to learn is to do it.If it doesn't work or come out like you wanted at least you learned something from the process and you will have something to practice sharpening on.

[Anonymous No.539513]

Get a blade made of tungsten carbide

Never sharpen your razor again

[OP No.539534]

Thanks for the replies so far. I was hoping someone knew of an inexpensive blade I could just grind down and use. The tungsten carbide idea sounds right but tungsten carbide steel has little bits of tungsten carbide in it. They prevent making a good razor edge. (See www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/fashion/12skin.html?_r=0 review of the Infinity razor. )

Now if I could get a large solid piece of tungsten carbide and shape it, that would be a different story. But that's almost like making a razor out of a large gemstone.

Razor makers use fine grained steel, type O1 (oil quenched), W2 (water quenched) or silver steel, hardened to something like RC56 or higher hardness. (I was wondering if anyone made a razor from 5160 spring steel. It can be hardened to RC62. They make theatrical swords from it because it doesn't chip or break. But I'm not a bladesmith, much as I admire those who are.)

An odd thing is some people say that too hard of a razor is not good. It takes much longer to sharpen but the edge doesn't last that much longer.

Ceramic blades are available but I find contradictory information about them. Some say they can't be made sharp enough and some say they are too sharp to shave with.

Maybe I should just give up and get a forge and anvil. And burn my fingers a few times.

I mentioned using a plank as a stop. I should mention that I rub it with a ball of aluminum foil. I had previously tried iron oxide as an abrasive. I don't know if the aluminum oxide is the abrasive or if the metallic aluminum reacts with the iron oxide in a thermite reaction under the blade. All I know is that it works. At least it worked with the blades I used.

[OP No.539536]

Thanks for the replies so far. I was hoping someone knew of an inexpensive blade I could just grind down and use. The tungsten carbide idea sounds right but tungsten carbide steel has little bits of tungsten carbide in it. They prevent making a good razor edge. (See www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/fashion/12skin.html?_r=0 review of the Infinity razor. )

Now if I could get a large solid piece of tungsten carbide and shape it, that would be a different story. But that's almost like making a razor out of a large gemstone.

Razor makers use fine grained steel, type O1 (oil quenched), W2 (water quenched) or silver steel, hardened to something like RC56 or higher hardness. (I was wondering if anyone made a razor from 5160 spring steel. It can be hardened to RC62. They make theatrical swords from it because it doesn't chip or break. But I'm not a bladesmith, much as I admire those who are.)

An odd thing is some people say that too hard of a razor is not good. It takes much longer to sharpen but the edge doesn't last that much longer.

Ceramic blades are available but I find contradictory information about them. Some say they can't be made sharp enough and some say they are too sharp to shave with.

Maybe I should just give up and get a forge and anvil. And burn my fingers a few times.

I mentioned using a plank as a strop. I should mention that I rub it with a ball of aluminum foil. I had previously tried iron oxide as an abrasive. I don't know if the aluminum oxide is the abrasive or if the metallic aluminum reacts with the iron oxide in a thermite reaction under the blade. All I know is that it works. At least it worked with the blades I used.

[Anonymous No.539602]

I wonder if OP has even ever used a straight edge before.
Making a razor, honing it on a plank and trying to learn to use it like that? Great idea...
OP, just buy a razor and make scales for it And if you don't know what scales are, you sure as hell shouldn't be making a razor.

[Anonymous No.539650]

Files are fine steel. Some are phenomenal steel. W2. 01 steel, 1095, etc. All good steels.

Now, realistically, a straight razor is a thick motherfucker, 3/16s at the back spine for a proper one. Then it's hollow ground, to as thin as humanly possible for the sharpest, most delicate edge possible. Lots of work, lots of skill, lots of time.

I got the bug for this some time ago, myself, and have been honing my skills (heh heh,) to make my own. I've been shaving with the knives I make for a while, and they do just fine for the rough shit, but I come back in with a bic for the scarred area on my throat. No big.

Anyways, tempering steel. Heat to critical (non magnetic,) quench in an oil. Used motor oil, sunflower oil, olive oil, whatever. Quench it until cool. This is pretty much as hard as a normal-pleb-boy like us will ever get a blade without specialize equipment. This is too hard. Very brittle. Take it to your oven, set to 400, wait, put the blade into the oven, let it cook for 90 minutes. This anneals the metal ever so slightly so it maintains reasonable hardness, thus edge holding capabilities, and a reasonable amount of flex, thus durability for the blade.

either way, Make knives. Then make razors.

[Anonymous No.539651]

other half of the bevel (the shaving edge

[OP No.539717]

>>539650
Thanks for the advice. I like your knife razor.
>>539602 buy a razor and make scales for it.
Great idea. Problem is I can't find one without scales. And since the last James Bond movie featured one, straight razors are hard to get and way overpriced. The non-folding one in the pick is over $140 U.S.

[Anonymous No.539828]

>>539717
Buy one used without scales or buy a cheap one with plastic scales. The cheapest dovos have the same blades as the more expensive ones, just cheap, and lately shitty, scales.

[Anonymous No.539888]

>>539536
>The tungsten carbide idea sounds right but tungsten carbide steel has little bits of tungsten carbide in it.

Carbide steel has CARBON in it. Not tungsten. Tungsten steel has tungsten. Vanadium steel has vanadium. Carbide steel has carbon.

[Anonymous No.539893]

>>539888
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_carbide
I don't know about steel alloys with that, but just so you know something like that really exists.

[Anonymous No.539943]

>>539893
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_carbide

My ring is made of Tungsten Carbide. You need to learn how to read.

"Colloquially among workers in various industries (such as machining and carpentry), tungsten carbide is often simply called carbide (without precise distinction from other carbides). Among the lay public, the growing popularity of tungsten carbide rings has led to some consumers calling the material just tungsten, despite the inaccuracy of the usage."

You can't even read your own article. Your usage is WRONG.

[Anonymous No.539961]

>>539943
I was not the one who used it, and I admit I didn't read the whole article.
Anyway, after reading a bit about that material, to me it sounds like a tungsten carbide razor could be pretty sharp.

[Anonymous No.539965]

Maggard sell cheap cut throats, you can get new or vintage ones, and they will sharpen them for you. They are also really cheap.

[OP No.540023]

>>539888
You are right about carbon steel having carbide. I was thinking of an article I read about tungsten high carbon steels forming large particles of tungsten carbide in them. High carbon steels have iron carbide and any kind of large particle can be an obstruction to getting a razor edge.
Coarse-carbide tool steels:
www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/knife-steel-knowledge/different-steel-types/coarse-carbide-tool-steels/
Fine-carbide knife steels:
www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/knife-steel-knowledge/different-steel-types/fine-carbide-steels/
They say "A sharp edge should have a radius of 1-2 microns, which is easy to achieve with the small carbides in Sandvik's fine-carbide knife steels."
Ca'mon, I have abrasives much smaller then that. In optics, we measure errors in fractions of a wavelength of light, angstroms or nanometers. Microns (micrometers) are like huge.

Maybe a super fast quenching process would help. I don't know if salted ice water would make much difference. It's 0°.

[Anonymous No.541267]

>Not getting the highest quality for something that frequently passes your carotid artery

I hope you've got 911 on speed dial.

[OP No.541358]

Here's a little story I heard from an old WWII vet:
When the first boatload of German POWs was arriving in the USA, a bunch of news photographers were standing by to photograph them. The US military expected they would look rough after a sea voyage with no shaving equipment.

But the Germans wanted to look their best for their first visit to the USA. So they slept with their uniforms under their mattresses to keep them pressed. And they shaved with broken glass shards from a bottle. I guess one of them was a barber.

When they marched down the gangplank, they looked spit and polish. The US Army confiscated all the photographers' film.

The point of the story is that the first casualty of was is the truth. But it also shows that someone who knows what he is doing can shave even with broken glass.

[OP No.541373]

Here's a little story I heard from an old WWII vet:
When the first boatload of German POWs was arriving in the USA, a bunch of news photographers were standing by to photograph them. The US military expected they would look rough after a sea voyage with no shaving equipment.

But the Germans wanted to look their best for their first visit to the USA. So they slept with their uniforms under their mattresses to keep them pressed. And they shaved with broken glass shards from a bottle. I guess one of them was a barber.

When they marched down the gangplank, they looked spit and polish. The US Army confiscated all the photographers' film.

The point of the story is that the first casualty of war is the truth. But it also shows that someone who knows what he is doing can shave even with broken glass.

[Anonymous No.541389]

>>540023
>Maybe a super fast quenching process would help. I don't know if salted ice water would make much difference. It's 0°.

You would form a nasty oxide layer in a salt water quench.

[Anonymous No.541556]

>>541373
Your anecdote doesnt hold water when you're comparing two entirely different materials.
Broken glass has an edge on the matter of an atoms thickness, and its entirely straight edged. The biggest difficulty is just getting a handle on it. Some neanderthal quality ghetto rigged steel isnt going to even remotely approach that and it greatly increases risk of self harm.

[Anonymous No.542705]

>Broken glass ... entirely straight edged.
You obviously didn't grow up in my neighborhood.