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/diy/ - Do It Yourself

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49372 No.49372 [Reply] [Original]

Amateur blacksmithing general

Willing to give advice regarding how to start out and basic tips/info

>> No.49383

>>49382
What do you plan on working on? It depends

>> No.49382

Have you got any advice on setting up/making your own forge?

>> No.49396

>>49383
What do you recommend starting with?

>> No.49410

>>49396
Wall hooks and other basic shit like bending steel rod.

It's really simple and the thinness of the steel makes it easy to heat.

Basically what you need to do is make a hole in some dryish dirt and fill it with lump charcoal or wood (the former is a lot better). Get a hair dryer and a piece of PVC pipe or something similar to push air under the charcoal.

Fuck around with the forge until you find where the hottest spot is. That's where you want to stick the steel to heat up.

Obviously there's more stuff like safety precautions that need to be taken but I won't bore you unless you ask

>> No.49416

>>49410
moar advice plox

>> No.49425

Do you have any experience with gas forges?

>> No.49427

>>49416
-Stay away from anything galvanized or coated... you'll find out why if you stick with any sort of metalworking

-Wear eye protection, imperfections and slag can fly off and fuck your face up

-If you are using someone else's anvil, be really careful. If you hit the toolface, you can end up costing them several hundred dollars in replacement

>>49425

I used oxy-acetylene torches because I had them around, but I heard something about the gas doing something to the steel. Unless you're working in a place where the gas isn't being paid for by you, use lump charcoal or other solid fuel forges. It's way cheaper

>> No.49443

Brake drum forge and a chunk of railroad rail for an anvil, and one hammer. You can make everything else you could ever need from scrap. And always remember...you can cut/shape almost anything into almost anything else. It's an incredibly powerful feeling. Everything around us is just parts, you just have to break them down in your mind, then with your hands...and build them back up the way you see fit.

Two of the best Blacksmithing resources out there...
Anvil Fire and I Forge Iron.

>> No.49448

>>49443
Seconding Anvilfire and IFI

Anvil Fire is never updated though afaik

>> No.49449

>>49427
how does one go about shaping metal on an anvil, describe like the process of the last cool thing you made plz

>> No.49452

>>49448
Yea, it's pretty much dead, but still a huge library of info. Love the tutorials on there. Know of any more sites along the same lines?

>> No.49453

>>49449
I guess the best way to describe it is using the anvil's surface as an immovable, unbreakable (if you're using it right) wall to bash things against.

The horn is a graduated surface for basically creating bends in what you're using, and the reason it's cone or horn shaped is so you can have different levels of curve.

Last thing I made was a twisted iron rod as a demonstration

>> No.49458

>>49452
Unfortunately no. IFI and Anvilfire are really all you need as far as online stuff goes. You can find guilds in your area to further the craft; online guides don't do a lot compared to hands on.

>> No.49494

>>49458
I completely agree, but if I had the time and materials, I'd love to try every project I've seen at least once. I feel bad for the smiths that get a reputation for being the "knife guy" or the "flower guy."

>> No.49550

Been interested in this since the original Blacksmithing thread showed up.

I dont have the time now but really want to explore this craft. If i'd stick with it who knows, but seems to be a very interested hobby idea to me.

with that said, i have a question:

I understand the concept of salvage parts to blacksmith into other parts, ie taking iron/steel and re-shaping it into a knife

but lets say i want to make a car. that car requires a LOT of steel. I have the required amount of steel, but not one large chunk. lets say I have 1000 steel rods that will be enough in total to make my car.

is it possible to combine the steel together into one large lump to mold with, or is that not possible?

>> No.49567

>>49550
Casting iron without industrial level equipment is undoable. If you do achieve the heat necessary, you're just going to end up with really shitty iron with way too much carbon in it.

>> No.49599

Can I just use a fire to heat up the steel? I have a piece of rebar but no coal/charcoal.

Also, do I need a quencher or whatever? Can I just hit the metal?

>> No.49606

>>49599
Wood fire will not get hot enough alone. You need to blast it with air.

What do you mean a quencher?

>> No.49610

>>49606

Well, I can blast it with air, that'd be easy. I mean for like knife-making and stuff. I've read some places that you need a quench tank with water or oil. Just wondering if I need that right off the bat.

>> No.49613

>>49610
Unless whatever tools you're making are being made to last and be used, you don't need to temper them or quench them. Heat treating is unnecessary for beginners.

>> No.49615

>>49613

So for a starter knife, it'd be fine? If I wanted to use it, could I heat it up again and quench it later?

>> No.49620

>>49615
Yes. Heat treating typically entails heating and cooling the metal rapidly, so you can do it later down the road.

Chances are once you're familiar with the process, whatever you made in the time that you weren't familiar with it will be so crappy it won't be worth it. No offense.

>> No.49621

>>49620

None taken. Thank you for the info.

>> No.49625

>>49621
No problem.

Going to be on for the next 5-10 minutes. Will answer what's posted by before then

>> No.49632

>>49625

Fire guy here. If you live in the city, do you ever worry about disturbing your neighbors? I live in the city and I have quite a few neighbors I'm worried will say something. Like, I'm even scared to work during the middle of the day just in case someone says something.

What do.

>> No.49642

>>49632
I actually had that issue when I started out.

To avoid pissing off your neighbors, don't practice it after 5pm, generally, or before 10am.

Surprisingly it isn't that noisy. I would say mowing one's lawn is noisier.

What IS loud is the forge if you have you're using an electric blower, but you won't need to keep that going for very long at a time, but be prepared for jetting flame sounds... and I think it goes without saying but keep it the fuck away from any wooden fences, houses or anything flammable.

>> No.49644

>>49642

Ah, okay. Once again, thank you. What do I do if they say anything?

>> No.49647

>>49644
Stab them with your red hot protoknife

>> No.49654

>>49644
That's up to you. Check your local fire regulations for the legality of open or closed flames.

I know here as long as you're using the fire for cooking, it's A-okay. If the law is similar where you are, keep a pack of hotdogs or something on hand in case someone calls the Fire dept. on you.

If your neighbors are squirrely and you're afraid that they'll ask you to cut it out, tell them you could fabricate a knife sharp enough to shave their bones into kindling and your forge enough is hot enough to boil their bones for broth.

Just kidding

>> No.49663

>>49654

Okay. One last question. Let's say I have the anvil near a shed. It's made of wood. Is that okay? I plan on putting some aluminum sheets over the side of it eventually. Will that be fine? Can I wait to do it?

>> No.49665

>>49663

10 feet should be the closest your forge can be to a wooden wall I'd say. Even further away if it's bigger than small knife forge.

If you have a fire extinguisher nearby, or a hose, it should be fine. Don't let it out of your sight while it's hot.

>> No.49668

>>49665
correction: 10 feet might be a bit much. ~7 feet is more reasonable. Just don't have it right up against it.

>> No.49670

Is there a market for forging? I've been wanting to get into some sort of blacksmithing or leatherworking but there aren't any trainers in my area and the community college is pretty much dedicated to law.

Am I fucked?

>> No.49678

>>49670

If you get good enough at it that you can make things look stylish and interesting, buy a bunch of old lawn mower blades and make them into sword-shaped objects. They don't need to be sharp. They don't need to be tempered. You can sell those pieces of shit at a renaissance fair for at least 20-25 bucks a piece if you tell them they were hand forged by a real blacksmith. They would be legal, safe, and give people a cool conversation starter for cheap.

That's a very seasonal thing though. Most tools are machine crafted now.

>> No.49682

>>49670
There's totally a market for it, but it only pays in Gil.

Being able to take raw metal and bend it to your will using fire and hammers is its own reward.

>> No.49680

>>49665
>>49668

But the anvil being closer is fine?

>> No.49685

>>49680

As long as you have 2-3 feet radius to work around it, yes, that should be sufficient.

>> No.49689

>>49682

No one buys knives or anything like that?

>> No.49697

>>49689
They'd be too expensive. Nobody would want to sell something they put a dozen hours of work into for like 25 bucks.

I'm out for the night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7nzmhFwGoM

That should give you an idea of how hard it used to be. Interesting video if you're into blacksmithing at all.

>> No.49699

>>49427

>-Wear eye protection, imperfections and slag can fly off and fuck your face up

holy fuck this, I set up my charcoal forge this weekend and there were a lot of sparks, it is for sure worth it to wear eye protection

also get a forging hammer, if you compare the difference between a forging hammer and a framing hammer you will see the difference

>> No.49700

>>49689
If you're really good, you could probably get a niche local market.

You really have to get people who appreciate the craft of the thing. That or beat the price of regular products.

Also flea markets.

>> No.49841

I can't sleep, so feel free to ask more questions.

>> No.49848

>>49841
So how do they create anvils? Not in a modern way, but like if I had another time traveling accident.

>> No.49852

>>49848
Stone was used in the early iron age.

What they used to do and still do is forge weld a very hard toolface to a slightly softer body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA_Pw5mlf2U

That method was probably used in the old days

>> No.49870

>>49852
Neat

So how much would it cost to get a really basic setup? How long does a simple project take?

>> No.49876

>>49870
As for setup cost, go to your local junkyard and pick up a brake drum or a car wheel, and about a foot-long segment of train rail. If you're lucky, you might even be able to get them to cut the rail to size for you.

>> No.49879

>>49870

Basic setup? If you use a piece of railroad track like I used to for an anvil (just as good most of the time) and a dirt pit, it won't cost much at all. 30 bucks, give or take a bit depending on where you live.

>> No.49884

>>49876
My first anvil was a piece of RR track with a horn gascut into it.

>> No.49976

I see people keep talking about using railroad track for an anvil. How does that work, I mean it sounds like a single piece of track would give you a pretty tiny area to work on.

>> No.50005

I may be able to get my hands on an old anvil. Problem is it's been sitting in someone's garden as an ornament for at least twenty years. Will it still be any good?

>> No.50232

Good thread! Also an amateur blacksmith, going to post a few points from experience that haven't been brought up.

Coal forge vs propane forge; coal is traditional. It's also hard to get cheap in the quantities you'll need, requires an additional skillset to get started, and can be a stone bitch to work with if you've got mediocre coal. That said, I started and learned on coal fire and it works fine. Propane has the advantage of having readily available cheap fuel, of holding temperature without having to muck with it, and of being simpler to make a forge for. A coal forge you'll need a steel or firebrick basin with a draw and a chimney, a propane forge you can wrap some kaolin wool around the inside of an 8" tin ducting pipe and blow a torch flame through the hole. Propane torches will add more scale to your pieces, too. ymmv.

Regarding heat treating and knives; you need high-carbon (0.5 to 1.5%) steel for heat treatment to be worthwhile, and for beginners mild steel is easier to work and learn with. That said, unhardened knives are going to twist and dull like butter the moment you use them. A knife isn't a good first project, though; start with nails, move to firestrikers to learn high-carbon and tempering, and then try knives.

Also, DO NOT USE PVC PIPE. The C stands for Cyanide, which is released when heated. Use non-galvanized metal.

>> No.50235

>>49976
To start with, it's fine; you only really need about a 2"X2" area to work with for starter projects anyway. Medieval smiths didn't use much more anvil than a foot of rail offers.

>>50005
It is probably rusted to uselessness. The purpose of an anvil is the very hard smooth steel on the face of it, which rust will destroy pretty fast. If the top is pitted, don't bother with it, just hit a junkyard and get some rail.

>> No.50237
File: 575 KB, 600x1300, My_tools.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50237

My workshop, not including the anvil or the propane forge I use now. I'm lucky to have room in the country to work with.

I have to go to work. If the thread's still here when I get back I might post again. Either way, enjoy getting into blacksmithing, guys!

>> No.50327

>>49372
Where can I set up my own forge without disturbing anybody?

>> No.50329

>>50327
outer mongolia?
the middle of the sahara desert?
top of a mountain?
a very deep cave?
inside an industrial goth/rock club?

>> No.50335

>>50329
These are quite far away. Also, isn't it dangerous to forge on the top of a mountain...i mean avalanches n shit.

>> No.50344

I'm looking to get into swordsmithing but there aren't any specific smiths that state they teach it, should I just take lessons from local general blacksmiths to start out?

Or do you recommend learning it myself?

>> No.50352
File: 357 KB, 1600x1200, DS_Swordhilt01_nowatermark.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50352

>>50344
start by learning to make knives.

sword smithing is pretty much like jumping into an F1 car without having ever driven a single-seater. you're going to crash horribly till you have an expert understanding of working and shaping stuff, and can slowly go from knife to big bowies, to small swords, and then to larger blades.

and on top of that, you're going to need a massive amount of research to get it right....

>> No.50508
File: 134 KB, 960x574, good day.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
50508

>>50352
Nice to see you there CA :3

By the way, a friend of mine was looking for a cheap (ie. As cheap as possible, definitely not more than £200) training blunt. I told him to get a Peter Regenyei Federschwert, but the guy is looking for a blunt that looks like a sword. It'd be used with one of those Peter R Feders and an Albion Liechtenauer for drilling, but not sparring.

Any opinions? I was slightly trying to steer him towards one of the MTP Practicals, since apparently the latest Gens aren't that bad.

>> No.50549

>>50508
tricky one on that price point.
personally, I'd reccommend they spend another £20 and get an armourclass blade - www . armourclass . co.uk

they're not quite as pretty in the hilts*, but they will last you 5 times as long as the hanwei practicals or the likes when you do go onto sparring.


* (this is a polite way of saying they fell out the ugly tree and hit several branches on the way down. On the plus side, they're svelte lookers compared to Lutel or Kovex-Ars' uglies...)

>> No.50798

>>50232

the c stands for chloride not cyanide, that being said I would not reccommend burning PVC either

>> No.50913

>>50798
Mea culpa, correct. Mustard gas.

>>50327
Check your municipal noise regs. Blacksmithing really isn't that noisy for the neighbors, especially if you're doing it inside a shed (wear ear protection though), and most people enjoy the ringing sound of metal on metal. I've got a friend that does it in his garage and everybody drops by to watch, nobody complains. Just make sure nobody gets within bouncing range in case you drop hot steel.

>> No.50929

>>50232

i'm presently in the works of designing a coal/propane hybrid forge. it'll work kinda similar to a barbeque but with a hell of a lot more heat (obviously)

At present i use:
three and a half pound ball pein hammer as a forge hammer
Lump hammer as a forge hammer, along with two sledgehammers for larger work. crude, but effective. also handy for bending steel bar if you have a friend handy.
15 pound anvil (can't afford a real anvil atm)
home-made brick forge (which is surprisingly effective considering it's just thrown together as and when i need it.)
pair of boltcutters modified into large tongs
pair of pliers modified into small tongs.

I usually start my forge-fire using a mix of wood and parrafin (extra kick, wooo!), then slowly but surely increase the heat with the wood, which i've managed to get steel to red-hot with, then add coal at that point and wait slightly longer until it's producing a constant heat, usually hot enough to burn anything with ~6 feet without touching it. fucking hot, but if you stay with it right from the start your body acclimatizes. horrible when it's summer, about 28 degrees Celsius and you're shivering because you've been next to a raging forge-fire for a few hours.

>> No.50931

>>50929
advice i'd give to people starting out?

fuck about. a lot. don't bother investing in an anvil straight away, a large sledgehammer's head and a smaller hammer will do a great improvisation, and is much easier to source. using a brick-build forge without cementing will give you the option of modification during the process if you discover a fault, and makes it a lot easier to cool down after use if you don't have a lot of space readily available. That, and invest in two axes:
one, for chopping wood to start the fire with (the method i used anyway), and a cheaper one to put indents into steel/cut steel on your working face. works like a charm, and is more readily available. be prepared to make/modify your own tools to suit your needs and learn to weld using mig/gas/MMA welding, as it proves invaluable if you find that you need to do, well, anything that could do with some extra length etc. An oxy-acetylene welder can do a great improvisation of a forge if you have one readily available, as obviously it creates massive heat very quickly, but be careful or else you may simply cut through the piece you're working on.


Never cast into a cold mold by the way, i learned that the hard way after molten lead exploded out of a cold mold onto my arms, leather apron and surrounding area.

oh, and don't fuck about with gas forges unless you have a lot of spare $$$ or you don't mind being blown to smithereens by your half-assed gas creation.

>> No.50980

>>50931
Or you buy a $100 Victor heating head for your torch. :P But yeah, I've seen some of the ridonkulous abortions people have made for their flame spreaders using propane. Easy way to die. I've seen one good one, but that was made by a guy that had HVAC and welding tickets, so he knew what gas was about.

>>50929
I'm the last one to take my own advice, but if you build some firebrick walls on that, maybe, you'll get a lot more efficient fire. I've got a 1" kaolin wrap around my propane fire, like I said, and I'm not sure I could cook eggs on the outside of it. Really helps with fuel use.

I look forward to pics/reports of the hybrid forge!

>> No.50993

>>50980
i'm hoping to fuck it works out. it's not going to be large depth-wise, because it's being made out of 6" dia. water pipe (6mm thick, so pretty fucking strong), but it'll be plenty long. gonna spend more time actually designing it this time, because the last few metal forges i've built failed horribly, and if i'm gonna implement gas into it i REALLY need to design it well. however, the gas implementation is simply to improve the effeciency of the coal by effectively "kickstarting" it, with a little boost as and when i need it instead of, say, a pair of bellows.