3D Printing

[Anonymous No.363278]

hey /diy/, you guys might be more knowledgable on this than /g/ I'm looking for opinions on a good 3D printer...

I could probably wait and get a better/more accurate model in the near future, as the whole technology is still in its early stages now... But damn I have so many ideas for stuff to print out, I wanna print my as well jump in right now.

Solidoodle 3 seems really good for the price.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/15/solidoodle-3-hands-on/
I'm leaning towards that one..

[Anonymous No.363312]

Interesting. I didn't know any company sold 3D printers yet. I thought they were still in the early stages of development.

[Anonymous No.363515]

I keep receiving these messages from investopedia with "THE NEXT APPLE, BUT BETTER" or "IT WILL SURPASS EVERYTHING EVER, PUT MONEY IN IT" and it's all about 3d printing. You guys think it's gonna become an industry with good opportunities?

[Anonymous No.363519]

>>363515

I think it's going to be the next powerhouse industry in aerospace and automotive manufacturing.

[Anonymous No.363524]

>>363519
>my prediction
the quality of the things assembled in the likely future of 3d printing will not reach the standards for some industries

many parts need to be machined to fit perfectly, things need to be smooth

i can see structural projects being handled by 3d printers and other things requiring not much precision

[Anonymous No.363526]

>>363524
i should mention i know nothing about 3d printers or their precision/improvement with every new iteration

[Anonymous No.363532]

Just don't get a makerbot. Fucking closed source jerks.

[Anonymous No.363546]

>>363312
plastic 3d printers have been around since the late 80s. It used to be called fused deposition modeling.

It just hasn't gotten "sexy" until a few years ago.

[Anonymous No.363574]

>>363515
i kinda want to get some shares for some 3d printing companies, just for the lulz


maybe ill make a buck

[Anonymous No.363585]

3D Printing is incredibly overhyped.

The DIY level machines are essentially toys that have capabilities far inferior to traditional subtractive methods.

The hobby machines are not that great, there is no support material so geometries are limited. Accuracy is awful and they all require a lot of tweaking and tuning.

3d printing will become more prevalent over time but nothing will ever change the fact that it is an inherently slower and more expensive process than traditional manufacturing. People who claim that everything will be printed in 50 years time are pretending that all other technology remains static.

Every time 3d printers get a little bit better, so do other manufacturing processes. A 3d printer will never replace injection moulding in terms of cost.


Hobby level 3d printing is a hype and marketing based industry that is only effective at separating fools and their money. Seriously, ask them what they have made with their 3d printers. Its all keychains and parts to make their 3d printer work better.
90% of 3d printers just sit on a shelf and get brought to makerfaires so faggots can show each other the 2000$ machines they bought.

If you are serious about DIY get a real workshop, drill press, mill, hand tools etc...

[BJR No.363588]

>>363585

Uhhh... I've used several hobby ones that use support material. They're pretty accurate, too. Made door knobs, electronic enclosures, artsy-shit, replacement parts for anything that breaks and is plastic really. They can be easily smoothed with acetone and cast in metal, too.

[Anonymous No.363606]

>ask about better methods of producing
>no no! 3d printers are well worth it

>ask about 3d printers
>overhyped pieces of junk

never change /diy/

[Anonymous No.363609]

>>363585
You should read about the latest stuff from 2008 onwards, there is support material, they have finer detail and better precision. I've already ordered a printrbot+ and can't wait till its up and running so I can print off dragon dildoes.

[Anonymous No.363614]

>>363588
>>363609
Support material doesn't mean printing more ABS and then cutting it off with a knife later.

Aside from trash like the solidoodle/makibot and low end printers like the printrbot, most are 1k+ which puts them in the same price range as a laser cutter or mill.

[Anonymous No.363618]

>>363614
There is a material that dissolves in water that can be used on reprap's as support so suck my dragon dick bitch.

[Anonymous No.363653]

>>363585
3D printers aren't meant to replace injection molding. These aren't mutually exclusive manufacturing methods. 3D printers are fantastic for rapid prototyping. Injection molding is fantastic for mass productions of finished designs.

Although the part about printing keychains and showing off at makerfaires is pretty funny. Hype is crazy and a lot of the people hyped up have no idea how limited DIY/hobby printing is.

[Anonymous No.363685]

>>363606
It's just one guy and considering what image he posted as proof he's kind of retarded.
3D printers are great for all sorts of /diy/ projects, they were never meant to replace traditional manufacturing, their goal is to make you able to produce certain things that you couldn't possibly get unless you were ready to cash out. Again if these are just a few keychains and random dumb shit then you don't need a 3D printer, but if you need plastic gears, joints, casings and whatnot for various things often they are very much worth buying.

[Anonymous No.363694]

>>363278
OP I think with the 1000$+ you would spend to have something printing, you could buy a nice used drill press + many handtools + some used power tools + a good used vice. 3d printing is to expensive and to limted right now IMO.

[Anonymous No.363719]

>>363278
Have you considered a DIY printer? With smart shopping a MendelMax comes in at around $800, and a Prusa should be about $100 less. You can save at least another $100 on either of them if you have a friend with a printer to print you the parts. As I'm sure you know, it will require plenty of tweaking an calibrating, but that's half the fun for me. The DIY guys are getting some pretty damn good prints now.

I've got parts in the mail to build a MendelMax now. Partly because I was really bored and needed a new project. I don't know if I'll truly get $800 worth of use out of the machine, but I've been fascinated by this for far too long and finally decided to do it.

[Anonymous No.363727]

>>363694
Not OP, but I'm new here, is this a standard /diy/ trollpost (see: "Install Gentoo" from /g/) or are you suggesting that OP should be doing everything he would do with 3-D printing by hand.

Because I'm pretty sure OP already would have if it was close to feasible.

[Anonymous No.363734]

>>363727
No, he was just saying that $1k is a lot for something that won't be as useful as the tools he listed.
In reality it really depends on what you need it for and how much spare cash you've got. Also you can get 3D printers for $500, namely you can get RepRap, which is a decent machine.

[Anonymous No.363756]

I've used the original model these guys sell at my university, which they call the plus now or something.

http://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&category_id=&page=shop.browse&Itemid=37&limit=20&limitstart=0&vmcchk=1&Itemid=37

It's pretty good, but dimensional accuracy is lacking and you can get serious warping with badly designed parts.

All the white parts in the picture were printed using it.

[Anonymous No.363757]

>>363756
A picture showing the kind of quality you can get. I wouldn't reccomend getting one though if you're just going to fuck around. If you have serious ideas and want good prototypes, there are companies that will print or machine them.

Shapeways or this might be the better way to go.

http://www.emachineshop.com/

[Anonymous No.363759]

>>363757

Here you can see some of the limitations of the machine, strength between vertical layers is pretty bad and thin vertical sections can become hollow. Also it takes several hours to do prints.

[Anonymous No.363772]

>>363757

plus, there are online sites that will print your design using excellent printers, and cool materials like metal.

[Anonymous No.363982]

>>363519
3D priniting is useful for making prototypes for evaluation/modeling/marketing/development or even small one off products, but 3D printing itself is not for full volume production.

You could use it to make the molds. You can't compete with injection molding on cost and speed for volume production.

[Anonymous No.363994]

>>363524
lots of precision parts are made on CNC machines which are nearly the same thing as 3D printers

[Anonymous No.364048]

only two machine to consider that give descent quality and fairly descent price. Makerbot2 or Formlabs. Both machines are around $3,000. Makerbot2 has 100micron layer resolution and cheap material cost $45/kg. Formlabs has 25micron layer resolution but it's a stereolyth machine so materials are expensive $350/kg.

I'm leaning towards Makerbot2 due to material cost even though you loose resolution.

[Anonymous No.364143]

>>363994
>made on CNC machines which are nearly the same thing as 3D printers
Not really

CNC machines can easily mill metal, wood, plastic, any material you want.

3D printers are largely limited to plastic with the exception of some very expensive high powered laser scint or whatever that can "print" metal

[Anonymous No.364160]

>>364143

CNC = Computer numerically controlled.

Any manufacturing process that is controlled by a computer is technically a CNC. Including but not limited to sewing machines, welding machines, metal bending machines etc etc etc.

[Anonymous No.364212]

It depends on what you want to do, but 3d printing at this stage is more of a hobby in itself than a process or tool.

If you are prototyping real designs you should be using a commercial level printer either by buying outright or outsourcing to shapeways et al.

If you want to be a "maker" and just design, build and create random cool stuff then a 3d printer isn't really for you either.

Hobby 3d printers takes a lot of tools, time, skill and tuning to perform at their best. They are often marketed as CAD -> Print -> Part but that really isn't so.

The number of things you can create with a drill press and bandsaw or similar tools far outnumber the projects you can complete with just a 3d printer, and you will have superior skills and design intuition than a guy who never leaves CAD.

3D printers are undoubtedly an effective tool and they fill their niche effectively, but they are too often sold as an alternative to a workshop when they are only a piece of one.

What I am trying to say here is that if your objective is to a have a 3d printer then that's great, but if you have a different goal in mind there are likely dozens of tools worth owning before a 3d printer.

Consider the sheer number of projects that benefit from having a drill press compared to those that would use a 3d printer.

[Anonymous No.364251]

I have this sexy machine and not once have I found it not to be satisfactory. I purchased this a few years back when it first came back and to be honest it ran me 10 grand. I was reimbursed for it by the company I work for; right now it's sitting down in one of the tertiary workshops. It gets considerable use. Some asshat decided to print a plastic Stirling engine and wasted an entire spool of plastic.

This thing is a magnificent monster and has accuracy within one six-hundredth of an inch. As this thread has pointed out, they are PROTOTYPING machines. One rather interesting thing I've seen people do with them is print a prototype and make a mould out of it. I can't guess what they do with them but you can always assume.

Typically anyone printing anything with a rapid prototyper is limited by his skills in solidworks or whatever program you choose to use.

But yes, they are Prototypes. They're not meant to be as precise as you guys seem to want them. If you want precision get a machine like this- if not, get a crappy makerbot or a shitty 3d touch piece of garbage.

As the old idiom goes, you get what you pay for and that's extremely true in this market.

Alternatively, there are 3D printers nearing the range of $300 so have fucking at it.

Pic related, sexy Dimension 1200es

[Anonymous No.364265]

>>364251

i've know other nerds who would use the term "sexy" in that bizarre fashion.

as a normal person, it simply does not compute. to me, it makes no more sense than saying the machine is "salty".

[Anonymous No.364286]

>>364265
When I look at this machine I get excited about what could happen.

Hence sexy.

[Anonymous No.364346]

>>364251
>One rather interesting thing I've seen people do with them is print a prototype and make a mould out of it. I can't guess what they do with them but you can always assume.

Dragon dildos.

[Anonymous No.364485]

>>363618
>>363609
I have been looking for dildo .stl files and I cannot find anything. Have you found or created some?

[Anonymous No.364518]

>>364485
This will sound like bullshit.... but I am entirely serious..

/3/ has joke threads every so often about how the best way to begin 3d modeling is to make penises. Many hilarious and some magnificent and detailed cawks result. Head over and have a look.

inb4 FAGGOTS and AIDS

[Anonymous No.364534]

>>364518
considering we are on 4chan I do not doubt it. Thanks for helping me on my dildo search.

[Anonymous No.365537]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=1xZyF7l5_8w

Commercial 3d printers are pretty fucking amazing.
The wrench and chain...

[Anonymous No.365540]

>>363585
That is an extremely unfair example image. The first print off my hobby printer was better than that.

[Anonymous No.365566]

>>365537
I saw a video of some people who printed a bike. Not in pieces, but a whole bike, with bearings, chain, wheels, assembled and ready to ride out of the printer.

[Anonymous No.365582]

>>365566
Bullshit!
link2

[Anonymous No.365584]

>>364485
I have a detailed one, Got it from thingiverse before it was deleted because of ToS. Anywhere I can upload it or email it to you?

[Anonymous No.365643]

>>365582

he's exaggerating a little. for now you cannot do that, but in a year or two they will be self-replicating and you will be able to scale up to anything.

they are delaying the introduction of self-replicators because the market will collapse soon after they are released. same will be true for cellphones, tablets, you name it.

the future has a name and that name is freedom.

[Anonymous No.365717]

>>365643

If by 'market collapse' you mean 'specialists attempt to hoodwink market, marginally succeed' then you're definitely right.

[Anonymous No.365980]

>>365566
sorry, haven't checked the thread in a while
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxjLpu2BvY

[Anonymous No.365985]

>>365566
shit sorry, i watched the video again and i lied, it wasn't fully assembled. the bearings were however printed assembled, which is an achievement by itself.

[Anonymous No.365991]

>>363278
take it too /3/

[Anonymous No.365994]

>>365584
upload it to physibles on the pirate bay or upload it to mediafire.

>>364485
Here you go, an entire site dedicated to 3d printed sex toys:
http://makerlove.com/


Some sex toy companies actually 3d print parts for molding dildos, because it's cheaper than hiring a professional mold maker to do it.

[Anonymous No.365996]

>>365994
and whatever you do, don't ever use 3d printed dildo, especially one run off on a diy 3d printer.

Just don't, materials aren't medically rated and you don't one break up inside you

[Anonymous No.366010]

Nothing really of use to add. Only that today I saw my first REAL 3d printer, the kind that costs a shit ton of money used by companies.

The company I work for does contract work for other companies and I'm getting trained at a company that makes medical equipment for hospitals and the military...specifically units that measures heart rates. They made more but this is what they're doing right now apparently. Well they have a modest workshop where I'm guessing they make prototypes for chassis/body/case design. A few normal wood shop things then BOOM a fucking commercial 3d printer. The guy showed me some of the stuff they made, a loop of bicycle chain and a crescent wrench all done in the plastic medium and all functioning perfectly and all pretty damn smooth. I'd say while not the same weight the crescent wrench had the same texture as a real one and the little screw part worked perfectly.

Chances are the machine I saw was probably worth several years worth of my salary though and it really couldn't make parts any bigger than what you see the diy things make.

[Anonymous No.366011]

>>363614
>>Support material doesn't mean printing more ABS and then cutting it off with a knife later.
that's what most professional 3d printers do. Even the high resolution ones

>>363618
>>There is a material that dissolves in water and can be used in reprap
and the reprap people have been trying to source it. PLA can be dissolve in hot lye water, but there has been limited support with that

>>363519
Already is. 3d printed parts are already being used in airplanes(747, jetfighters, etc), because it's cheaper to print them than to injection mold them and have people assemble them. You can also make stuff more lightweight than if you molded or machined it, which is a HUGE benefit for airplanes.

The other thing is that machining titanium for airplane parts is a fucking bitch, much titanium is lost in the process, which is why airplane companies are looking at 3d printing to make parts. As 3d printing is an additive process much less titanium can be used. pic related.

>>363524
Now don't tell anyone this, but there's a new 3d printer out there capable of making precision ceramic molds for jet turbine blades. In other words, if you work in the business of making jet turbine blades or precision cast parts, quit now and start looking for a new job, as you will probably lose it within 2 years.

Did I mention said 3d printer was made from COTS hardware too? So you can build one too if you want...

>>363653
you are very right, 3d printing is VERY OVERHYPED right now, we are probably at peak hype now. Though what disappoints me more is the parts people produce with hobbyist 3d printers are barely taking advantage of the capabilities of their printer

[Anonymous No.366014]

>>363278
DON'T BUY ONE NOW! Please don't do it! DIY 3d printing is due for a drastic resolution improvement soon as more and more people start to build there own DLP stereolithography produced printers

[Anonymous No.366015]

>>366010
did it have the word OBJET on it? Did it use liquid or powder?

Also, making friend with whoever runs the printer is a decision you will not regret.

[Anonymous No.366027]

>>366014
But that goddamn resin is expensive as fuck

[Anonymous No.366032]

>>366015
You know, I didn't note the name. We it was just a quick tour but I Googled pictures and found it

http://www.ags-3d.com/photos/photo191_1.jpg

and apparently yeah it is.

and yeah if I ever get to meet the guy that uses it I'd totally try to get to know him.

It's apparent that it's one of those really expensive pieces of hardware that didn't get used too often but when they did need it it served a really important purpose and the fact they had cool little things they made using it seems like proof that it doesn't get used much.

[Anonymous No.366095]

>>366032
>> it doesn't get used much.
I've heard that the cartridges it uses go bad after a certain amount of time and the machine operators usually print off a whole bunch of stuff with cartridges that are about to go bad.

Probably keeps the machine exercised too.

>>366027
it will get cheaper. 3d printing materials of any type are almost always expensive.

[Anonymous No.366124]

>>363278
You could wait to see if Staples brings this to the US and if Office Depot tries to beat them. It is paper based but I like that people will be able to give 3D printing a try before blowing a wad of cash.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/30/tech/innovation/staples-3-d-printing/index.html

[Anonymous No.366164]

I have a few things to add to the conversation. Maybe a few things to clear the whole thing up. I'll answer questions as I go along.

>>363546 it still is called this. This is just one type of process for 3D printing. This is the concept of all these cheap desktop sized printers. There are a lot of other kinds of 3D printing. 3D printing is bundled into the term "Additive Manufacturing". You're adding material layer by layer. This is the opposite of the more traditional "Subtractive Manufacturing".

FDM, SLS, PolyJet, SLA...list goes on. Just different ways of printing parts.

>>363519 it already is. I am going to attach a picture. Its a part of the landing gear from an airplane. A company is prototyping the entire landing gear. This is just a piece. Large scale and mass manufacturing is taking huge advantage of this technology. Buying a 3D printer makes sense when the cost of manufacturing is so high. This cuts down on prototype and design time. The landing gear print was done in less than a day.

All of these sub $5000 printers are nothing buy toys. I am in the 3D printing industry and work with printers all day. I sell Objet and Stratasys printers. These are $15,000 to $250,000 machines. They're serious business for serious projects.

[Anonymous No.366166]

Forgot picture. I guess I'll be open to answering questions maybe. I don't really have the same excitement to explain as I did when I first started reading this thread, but I'll give my opinion.

If you want to buy a small desktop 3D printer, expect it to collect dust in the corner in the following weeks or months after your purchase. You are going to have a lot of headaches trying to tweak these things. They are not perfect. There are huge issues with layer fusing, model sagging, sticking and material deposition. It's too young to jump on the bandwagon just yet.

If you plan on purchasing a machine and expecting your life to change, get that idea out of your head. The model's you'll build aren't going to last. They're cheap. They're flimsy. They're not what you expect. You are not going to change the world by having a 3D printer. You are not going to print useful, strong objects from these, unless you have the know how and the ability to use them to make more useful things. Like molds. And if you have the ability and know how to make molds, you should have to skills to not need a 3D printer.

It's a romantic idea to have something to spit out your ideas. It's neat and its fun. If you want it to play, buy one and play. Don't expect much though.

[Anonymous No.366171]

But like I said above, I make a living from the 3D printing industry. >>366032 Your Connex 250,260 or 300(model ranges, which I sell), is useful for many different reasons. The chain and the wrench are super common benchmarks with those printers. They're really really good at showing accuracy on our printers.

Objet printers print at 14 micron layers. Compare that to 100 micron. Its leaps and bounds. Its retarded how thin it is. But its not good for building chains and wrenches. They're weak and cool as a marketing tool. Thats all. On those machines, people are creating proof of concepts. BMW is using them to create plastic mock up pieces for concept vehicles. The old way of producing proof of concept of mock up pieces was to have an idea, have some meetings, draw it out with an artist, carve it with a modeller, draw it out with a draftsman, send it to low quantity production, fit it, if it doesnt work, re-adjust, re draw, produce, repeat if needed. Now, you have CAD, print, test, adjust, print, test, manufacture.

That entire flow adapts to every single large scale manufacturing situation. It works everywhere. And people are eating these big machines up.

Look up the Objet 1000. $550,000 with a $40,000 cleaning station. Its ridiculous. But its only being made because the market has a need for it.

Medical is huge too. Just go to Objet and Stratasys's websites and look at how well it adapts to industry.

[Anonymous No.366180]

>>366164
Have you printed a dragon dildo yet? Whats the biggest penis you have ever printed?

[Anonymous No.366182]

>>366180
dragon dildo no, but biggest dildo was 12 inches. the guy posting up above wasn't wrong about sex toys and printing. everything needs a prototype

[Anonymous No.366211]

Afinia / Up! printer or bust. If you need larger prints, either print in segments or maybe ultimaker... Afinia is best out of the box hands down though. Printing Yodas all day.

[anonanon No.367785]

>>366166
Yeah 3-D printing is useless and the models are friendly and certainly this isnt a tech that will change the way we do basically everything


http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/08/3d-printed-magic-arms-give-a-little-girl-use-of-her-limbs/

[wonder No.367986]

I have a printrbot plus and it has great.

admitted its not the best if you want something that runs out of the box, you have to build it from a kit and the instructions are not great. but I was able to build and start printing in less than a weekend. and for the cost of $600 you cant really complain.

FACT: prints will not be as good as on a professional 3d printing service, however this does not mean its not an incredibly useful tool to have.

I have managed to print with 100micron layer height (0.1mm) and it looks good (takes forever). included pic is a 1.5 inch tall bust I printed on my machine the first week I had it.

I guess it depends what you intend to do with it. im doing a degree in robotics and its perfect for small prototypes / motor mounts / servo holders / project enclosures. if your a keen maker its great to be able to print parts that are hard to source or just not available at all.

its actually running at the moment printing some enclosures for some led balcony lights I have designed. the take custom lights that you cant buy fittings for and would have cost me a bomb to have made at a machine shop. plus its running on my desk in my bedroom while I get on with things. cant imagine how much hassle it would be to have a mill running in here.

[Anonymous No.368018]

>>367986
That's actually rather good quality. The only thing I'm worried about regarding these printers is the durability of the printed parts, considering that they're layered they probably break easier than if it was made using a mold and the same material? Or it's not significant?

[wonder No.368040]

>>368018
they are weaker in the layers than moulded parts of a similar thinkness however you can infill parts that would cost alot with moulding. parts are pretty durable and if your a good designer you can acount for weakness in your designs, eg if im making a motor mount I make sure the xy goes around the motor as I know this can take the most stress.

i will post a pic of the led enclosure when its finished

[Anonymous No.368056]

>>368018
I don't know what material was used, but the prototype parts we've used at work have been pretty brittle, and didn't take to UV exposure very well either.

[wonder No.368079]

>>368056

im currently printing in abs but can also print in pla or nylon. tbh I don't really know how parts react to uv but iv just made some balcony lights so i guess i will soon find out.

parts can somtimes be brittle in z because of layers but are verry durable in xy.

quick pic of my lights that just came off the printer. printed at 0.2mm layer height. this took 3 hours and cost about 2$ in plastic. it houses a 20W bright blue led with a frosted cover.

[Anonymous No.368102]

>>368079
Any issues with printing in ABS?

[Anonymous No.368107]

>>367785
Indeed. Money should be spent on other things of more value than this tom-foolery known as "3d printing". I don't really seeing it going anywhere other than the way of the Betamax.

http://www.ted.com/talks/anthony_atala_printing_a_human_kidney.html

[Anonymous No.368279]

>>368107
Plus whats the point in buying one now when you can buy one later of better quality...
Oh yeah because how else would they improve without having any funding or group input such as improvements.