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/diy/ - Do It Yourself

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File: 401 KB, 551x564, whatsthecatch.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2810805 No.2810805 [Reply] [Original]

Had a good thread a couple of days ago where I was planning on using heat press, laptop and a printer outdoors.

It started with looking for generator for this task, ended talking about benefits of solar power. This pic related should technically be a good substitution for generator with gasoline charging.

But the power station is quite cheap, like 100 euros, wtfff. What's the catch, sounds too good to be true?

I repeat, it would be used to power a 1250 watts heat press, laptop and a printer. But will it be able to do that in reality?

>> No.2810814

>What's the catch
They inverter is overrated for power and they produce modified sine wave which some electronics don't like much.
1250W heat press presumably isn't constant draw, but if it was, it'd probably have some issues with supplying that much for a long time.
I'd recommend buying one of these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005137158030.html combined solar inverter units, this is not only pure sine wave, it's actually mostly capable of the rated power, I also have one of them. Only that these use 24V, so you can't use it with a solo car battery. Also has important options for charge management for batteries, it's fully compatible with LFP/NMC and the old shit lead acid.
600W solar panel in that picture is definitely not 600, probably not even 100W. A 600W panel would be about 2 square meters in size, nobody would ship it to you from China for less than 500 bucks. Also you have to understand that a 600W solar panel only puts out 600W in full summer sun, overcast will immediately drop you to around 100W.

Where is your battery?

>> No.2810817

That one that you linked is very interesting, but the shipping cost is BRUTAL. Correct me if I'm wrong but the pure sine inverter is a substitution for generators? I learned about them yesterday.

Solar panel could be a replacement for battery, right?

>> No.2810819

>but the shipping cost is BRUTAL
Look around for other listings then, the total cost should be under 250, probably under 220 euros if you're in Europe.
>Correct me if I'm wrong but the pure sine inverter is a substitution for generators?
Inverter makes 220V AC from 12-24-48V DC(depending on inverter). This one I linked uses 24V DC.
Solar charger makes 12-24-48V DC charging voltage from 15-800V DC from solar panels. The one I linked is an inverter+charger, it goes from 30-80V.
Solar panel usually produces something between 0.5 and 50V. You generally can't use a lower voltage panel than your battery, conversely maximum amps and volts is usually limited by the solar charger.
Nothing is a substitute for a battery. In theory you could connect devices directly to the panel's output, but in practice you can't, give up on the idea, you need a battery.

This is the cheapest not total shit system you can make easily that won't have any issues with your loads:
>450-550W ~40V panels - around 80 euros if you buy them locally in Europe, don't know prices elsewhere
>that 2400W inverter I linked ~ 250 eur
>2x 12V car batteries - NOTE THAT THIS HAS DOGSHIT LONGEVITY - ~150 eur
>1x 24V small LiFePo battery - 300-500 eur
It's possible to build a huge LFP battery for the same 500 euros if you're willing to /diy/, or a small one for about 200-250 euros, but your knowledge level is far from doing that and you'll have to learn a lot about batteries prior. Look up Will Prowse on youtube, he has all kinds of information on basic system design.

Alternatively you can buy an ecoflow, and for the price, you won't have to worry about any of the details, wiring, electrical safety, et cetera.

>> No.2810824

Why are car batteries necessary when there are solar panels? That longevity issue is also offputing ugh.

Ecoflow is also a substitution for generator and works with panels?

>> No.2810835

>why are batteries necessary when there are panels
When the panel is producing 400W and you connect a 1200W heater, what do you think will happen?
>I'll buy more solar panels then
When a tiny cloud passes in front of the sun, what do you think will happen?
Ecoflow is all-in-one, it has battery, inverter, solar charger, you don't have to do anything except turn it on. They accept solar panels. They're by far the simplest solution, but you pay approximately triple the cost of /diy/. Delta 2 1024Wh would work for your stuff, it costs about 1k.

>> No.2810837

So Inverters are not functioning as storage and require batteries for that. Generators do function as storage tho?

What are the problems with generators? Loudness has to be nr 1. Isn't a generator with inverter the same as ecoflow?

>> No.2810839
File: 27 KB, 987x468, sol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Solar panels are producing power basically randomly when it's not perfectly sunny, pic related is a cloudy, rainy day on a 5kW array. You absolutely need to buffer this for almost every application somehow, and the buffer is the battery. The type of inverters you want are simply not designed to work without a battery. The only inverters that work without a battery are on-grid, which are always connected to the grid mains power, and basically use the grid as a buffer (subject to local regulations).
"Solar generators" like the ecoflow include everything in one box so it functions similar to a regular gas generator, that you just plug shit into the outlet and it werks. They don't actually generate anything unless you connect solar panels, it's just a marketing gimmick.
>[gas] generators do function as storage
The gas generator is constantly offering the potential to deliver full power, the motion energy of the spinning parts stores enough power to act as a buffer for 1-2 seconds when you turn on a big load (the magnetic field draws power from the kinetic energy of the spinny parts), and in those 1-2 seconds, the power output of the gas engine ramps up. Disadvantage is
>loud, have to keep it running the entire time you're using power
>smells bad
>uses gas, which costs money
>can't run indoors unless you run exhaust
>generally can be considered less reliable than a decent battery system
Advantage is that you are much less likely to ever run out of power, a solar/battery system can run out of juice if you use a lot of power or get bad weather. Larger off-grid solar systems sometimes use gas generators to charge the battery if weather is bad.

Gas generators don't usually need inverters since they already produce AC, as given by the windings of the generator. There exist "inverter gas generators" but that's more of a performance enhancement thing.

>> No.2810840

Retarded or just brown?

>> No.2810845

That's a big deal about inverters, I thought inverter also had battery capabilities. Sooo ecoflows great but cant find an inexpensive without absurd shipping atm, generators also smelly with all other disadvantages, solar panels + inverter + batteries good and /diy/ approved, if I understood correctly? And car batteries are the choice for batteries but huge problem is longevity?

At the retarded stage of this, didn't know anything about it 2 days ago but stubborn. just ended 6 months cavein retard mode of making a game and finished/published, this is the next thing for stubborness(and this should take as long)

>> No.2810857

Car batteries are very unsuited for it but it will work short-term, depending on how you use it. Like if this is something you'll use twice a month and then forget about it by next year, go with car batteries. If this is something you will be using for a decade every single day, then learn everything about solar system sizing, battery sizing, LFP battery /diy/, then make your own shit. If you're retarded but still want solar, then save up for an ecoflow. If you're retarded but not that dead set on solar, buy a regular generator. If you're poor, buy a regular generator.
There is deep cycle lead acid battery that you might read about in some places, it's "between" LFP and car batteries in longevity and usefulness, but given current LFP prices it's just money down the drain, so ignore deep cycle lead acid unless you can get a very good deal on it (i.e. almost as cheap as car battery). Also a more serious system should be on 48V batteries, not 24V, but it slightly increases prices of both inverters and batteries, that's why I initially recommended 24V.

>> No.2810871

regular generator is out of the question at this point, just witness the loudness and it's not something I should use in touristic areas where I plan to use it.

Those 24V batteries though, aren't most car batteries 12 V(that's my realization, Im probably clueless)? And did I understand correctly that solar panel of like 300W + ecoflow is perfect but pricey?

>> No.2810916

>touristic areas
What exactly do you plan on doing? Describe your use case and just how much you plan on using each device and how long you need to be totally off-grid. It's a hypothetical that 300W solar panel + ecoflow is perfect. One of the cheapest ecoflows (the $1k one) would be perfect if you only use the printer and heat press for half an hour a day, but you're going to have problems if you want to run those two devices for 5 hours a day.
>car batteries 12V
Yes, that's why you use 2 of them in series. Though truck and tractor batteries are straight 24v, but cost more.

>> No.2810962

I was planning on using heat press, laptop and a printer outdoors for making custom mugs, tshirts, metal posters etc on the spot.

That 12V is for cars and 24V for tractors and trucks is great knowledge, glad I learned that.

Wouldn't my pic from my op >>2810805
work good if I get a better solar panel and batteries? That stuff is not even 100 euros

Also just returned from looking for laptop, there's a windows tablet that serves like laptop for 150 euros, seems like a good deal for this addition

>> No.2811004

Depends on how much they lied about the ratings of the inverter, plus the charge controller is the shitty one that that retard Wayne burned out with what, 2 full size panels? So that one also definitely can't do 30A, wouldn't even put 10A through it.

>> No.2811008
File: 287 KB, 1524x463, LFG.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


Just saw LFG batteries you mentioned for 90 dollars on aliexpress, free shipping

Also looked a video on them by Will Prowse, specifically the ones he got from Aliexpress. These from Aliexpress do seem to be used, but there's no way this isn't a good deal at like 80% capacity, eh?

>> No.2811021

If you're gonna buy cells from aliexpress, then only go for stores that are covered elsewhere - at least some leddit testimonials, ideally youtube reviews. The Aliexpress ratings can be easily faked on any store and any listing. NKON is a fairly reputable EU distributor and they have similar prices https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/lifepo4/sort-by/price/sort-direction/asc.html
only that you'll have to wait a while for them to stock the smaller cells.
However, if you're building a battery, you need a BMS for it, and you have to build a case of some kind to keep them relatively safe from damage, if nothing else at least some plastic storage box. 4S BMS are around 40-50 euros, JK/Jikong are an okay manufacturer for them. Then you need to actually learn how to set up the BMS.

>> No.2811025

*Also you need a big fucking fuse, that's another 20 euros including holder, like an NT00 80-100A fuse. TME sells them in Europe, plus aliexpress has some. No, the cheap $1 100A fuses are not appropriate.

>> No.2811032

I'll research them more to check for legitimacy, but these LFG ones are good even as used. But double checking manufacturer is the right choice.

Sooo LFG are OP as fk, if I find out how to combine them with 4S BMS, protect in casing and add a fuse.

AND these great LFGs are ~150 euros while one trash car battery is 150 euros. This is getting weirder and weirder but I really like it

And combine LFGs with inverter and solar. There are solars that arent expensive that can be folded, but they probably have a catch too, amrIright? And inverters... Whats the bottom price for fine ones?

>> No.2811038

12V 1500W simple inverters can be had for like $40-50 if it's chinkshit, they're not expensive.
But go through absolutely everything on Prowse's channel and do some extra research on batteries, you need to understand what you're doing and why. They're very good at starting fires just by current output, even if LFP doesn't burn like nickel ones, and it's easy to permanently damage the cells by over/undercharging.

>> No.2811040

1250W heat press that uses like 10-15 mins per session, along with small watt consumption laptop and printer would work fine with 12V 1500W inverters?

Those blue LFGs look aesthetic af, will binge Prowse on this when I return home after morning activities

>> No.2811044

I personally wouldn't trust 1500W/120A through a <$50 inverter either way, but it'd probably work. They "have" a safety margin for peak power, though what they sell as 1500W constant, 3000W peak probably shouldn't run more than 800W constant 1500 peak.

>> No.2811052

Well, theres no risk of damaging inverter and stuff, it might just turn off or something thats not a big deal(from what Im concluding at least).

Oh yea, and that's a huge deal about generators without inverters - I heard they can fk up sensitive electronics like laptops.

>> No.2811499

>would work fine with 12V 1500W inverters

probably, but I'd look for online reviews. Some inverters have bad reps.

>> No.2811512

Water. Cooled. Lithium. Best solution for OP.

>> No.2811764

Thank you Kevin Van Sage for your many thoughtful and informative contributions to /diy/.

>> No.2811871

>But the power station is quite cheap, like 100 euros, wtfff. What's the catch, sounds too good to be true?
I bought stupid 100Ah lead acid deep cycle VRLA battery for 115 euros (5000 UAH to be precise). It is fucking heavy (28kg), but it has enough juice to start my old Liebherr fridge (it has very high inrush current).

For 100 euros you can buy some sort of power bank to charge your phone few times.

Basic Ecoflow costs around 1000 euros.

>pic related
1. I bought MPPT controller instead of PWM, presumably it can squeeze more power in the dusk.
2. Are you sure about single 600W panel (and flexible one)? I have 120W flexible panel (because it weights only 1 kg), but it is massive (130x70 cm).

>I repeat, it would be used to power a 1250 watts heat press, laptop and a printer.
I suggest you to measure inrush current just in case.

>That one that you linked is very interesting, but the shipping cost is BRUTAL. Correct me if I'm wrong but the pure sine inverter is a substitution for generators? I learned about them yesterday.
Pure sine wave is necessary if you have any sort of inductive (i.e. stupid) motors - like in cheaper fridges, washing machines, lathes etc. Otherwise they either may not work, or heat much more.

I bought 4kW chinesium inverter for 150$ free shipped.

>> No.2811892

What do you think about this one?

These batteries are also promising as the option with inverter and solar (getting panels, inverter and batteries separately option)
batteries link: https://aliexpi.com/Of9i

>> No.2811894

It didn't copy link for the the first option, here it is: https://aliexpi.com/upQU

>> No.2812182

>1250W heat press that uses like 10-15 mins per session, along with small watt consumption laptop and printer would work fine with 12V 1500W inverters?


>> No.2812315

I like everybody going with expensive, one-off, experimental grapheme meme batteries and systems when all you need is a car battery or two.
They make like billion of these every year for the last 100 years. You can get deep cycle ones for your boat or RV that work nearly identically to regular car batteries.
You can get them cheap, too. Even used batteries are discarded from power systems at 80% are perfectly usable for years on something like this.
It’s something that will be repairable for decades in the future, and you can use the system at home as an emergency backup.
It’s easy to hook batteries up in series and parallel to get whatever voltage/current you want for draining/charging.

>> No.2812584

thanks for the link. will give it a try