/diy/ - Do-It-Yourself

>why don't you work for yourself?

I do, thanks for asking.
t. farmer/rancher/mechanic/fabricator/machinist/welder/heavy equipment operator

>>2549455
>loose all rights for gibs, pension, healthcare, overtime, paid tools, paid van, guaranteed pay in quiet periods
>would loose all jobs with money in it since thoose customers demand a big corporation behind it and 24/7 support
>all deals are corporate, they dont even consider one-man shows
but im considering starting alone and renting myself out for installation projects, wont be any more money in it but i wont have to deal with daily service calls, commuting and other bs. i just show up, work for 2-3 weeks then fuck off.

>>2549621
>lose all rights to XYZ

So, obviously, starting a business isn’t for everyone and it’s obviously situational. But this is a very misinformed decision, because the tax code is written to benefit business owners not employees.

If you’re making $120k a year doing oil rig work yeah don’t start your own oil company moron but if you’re making $30/hr as a plumber there’s nothing wrong with finding side work for $120-160/hr and starting your own business if you can sustain that.

Not only that, in many countries you pay into both the employer and employee portion of pension/social security so you’ll get something anyway. But yeah, if you were 30 years in a unionized gig with a pension and you had five more years to go to collect 60% of your annual wage for the rest of your life, maybe hold off on starting a business. But if you’re a painter, drywall, etc there’s nothing wrong, with being upside work to accelerate your business and making connections with local general contractors.

I run a small trade school in my home country where we teach them on western standards but have 3rd world labour laws. We train them to be okay enough to work for us and then help them immigrate over to our company once they’re trained.

>>2549621
To add on… “paid tools paid van” are actually a tax write off for your boss.

Your boss depending on whatever country you’re in is most likely driving a G Wagon completely written off as a “work van” while you’re safe and cozy in a 1990 GMC safari

>>2549621
>loose all rights for gibs, pension, healthcare
This only applies if you actually use these
t. not an injury addled poorfag

>>2549621
While you do lose some benefits, the freedom to choose how much you work, when to take vacation, sick leave, help a friend or family member out etc. is very nice.

Beyond this I buy whatever I need for my house as a company expense and save a lot of money, obviously I cant buy a new front door, but I can buy that door cash and then pay the tools I need to install it via the company. Eg. Just got a router and circle jig for building speakers, I will one day use it at work, maybe.

>>2549669
>when to take vacation, sick leave, help a friend or family member out etc.
You can do all of that with a normal job. In fact, it's actually easier to do that as an employee, because if you are running a one-man show and some shit has to get done tomorrow, you are doing it no matter what. There's no one to cover for you while you're on leave.
The benefit of working for yourself is that there's no bossberg demanding that you show up exactly at 08:00 and giving you shit if you're 5 minutes late.

>I buy whatever I need for my house as a company expense and save a lot of money
I mean that is a benefit, but it is also on the illegal side. Not unethical, just not risk-free.
The employee counterpart to that is to work for a big company that uses tons of equipment and materials. If you befriend the warehouse/disposal guys, you can take home all kinds of goodies. Just this past year, I've dragged home enough plywood to build a garage, in addition to tons of lumber, 300ft of 12 AWG wire, and misc furniture (e.g. metal shelves, etc.).

If you're feeling frisky, you can also just outright "appropriate" materials/tools/electronics, as long as they won't be missed. Is it unethical? Maybe, but if you look at the profit that some of these companies generate and how they try every trick to screw their employees, one could consider it a form of getting even.
>not responsible if some retard reads this and then gets arrested when he steals 1500ft of romex and takes it straight to the scrapyard, brand new in it's plastic wrap.

>>2549681
I typically end up using the tools I buy for the business in some round about way, like, I do all my own work on my vehicle (I enjoy it) fiscally its cheaper than paying a mechanic, so I do the work on my wifes car etc. At the end of the day its very easy to find a reason to buy tools, at least for me, since I use an insane variety of equipment that does require maintenance once in a while. Buying rolls of wire or wtv is not going to be possible to write off, however, in my field I meet so many other business owners I have the opportunity to do work for free in exchange for a skid of interlock pavers or wtv.

>one man show
Absolutely this is the challenge, you cant run a reputable well paying electrical company as one guy, nor a plumbing company. But in my field or others dealing with homeowners in the luxury field, its a lot easier on your own or with one helper, who when you take those spontaneous golfing trips, is happy to stay home as long as you pay them (I make enough to do this when I do have a helper).

>>2549669
so many (you)s so little time
let me just get a few of them.
here everything is laid out to protect employees and customers
>tax code benefit owners, boss get rich on my labour
not entirely true, tax on investments are different than tax on work. if owner also works he also pay income tax and he will pay monthly tax on his car if its bought via the company.
my last job i know for a fact several of us made more than the owner/boss could afford to give himself in wages during the best years. he runs a company to keep us busy and paid while leaving satisfied custumers, thats his number 1 priority and a legal obligation. his own pay comes last.
>make xxx/hour
i know i cost my current enomloyer 65€/hour, for them to even consider hiring me as an independent contractor on a regular basis i must charge less than that and then i must keep myself supplied with everything required to do the job and god knows what in expenses and i can forget about overtime. im looking at around the same as before after tax and expenses.
>tools and buying stuff for myself
already do that
i can swap into residential then i can chsrge full price myself. but you do know that include 5 years warranty? i front the cost of parts and supplies? i hold legal responsibilites for damages and delays? and work doesnt come by itself, might be 3h the week i want to work 50h the week i want to go fishing...
at the end i might charge 120€/hour but after all is accounted for im still not making more money per month.

had to google it, about 20% of all businesses in construction goes bankrupt every year here. thats rarely the big and heavy ones so its safe to assume its the smaller ones, its said that half of all one man startups are done because of tax/suppliers debt or warranty claims within the first year.
all because they think
>lol im my own boss
and dont know what that includes.

>>2549455
because I went to school for engineering and now make six figures working 40 hours a week or less.

>>2549455
Because it would be a pain in the ass.
I'm a satisfied boring little worker ant

>>2549621
You can claim tools and the van and the fuel you use for your van and many other things against tax as business expenses, meaning you can spend that money instead of paying it in tax.

You can also set up as a corporation or limited liability company and pay yourself as a salaried employee and pay into a pension scheme yourself or just pay into a Roth IRA or similar and also maybe avail of cheaper health insurance.

The only main downside is if you're not working there's no money coming in, so no paid time off or sick leave, but you can change that by making more money working for yourself and being wise with the money, having an emergency fund and also by hiring people if you structure it that they are paid by the job and not on a fixed salary.

>>2550244
Op here, basically this. But making so much more now than as a wagie it was worth it. I just save and invest my money and otherwise may my bills, mortgage etc.

Having a truck and gas paid for is great, my wife gets some wage too as my bookkeeper.

The big downside is there is no structure to pay, im not getting paid when Im seeing jobs, doing paperwork etc, its all salary, no relation to the money the company makes until the end of the year when I take a bonus. Still worth it for me of course. Cash jobs also pay for all my groceries and other misc toys.

>>2549455
I am an electrician and recently started for myself. Easily making 3x as much as I did when working for a boss.

I have work for the coming years booked. Currently doing construction work on 400 houses for a development company.

>>2549960
Any recommendations for someone who hasn't been to college yet?

>>2550244
you and i dont live under the same tax and business laws.
and you guys never mention how fucking much paperwork it involves, i have had economics at university level and did "small business school" (fuck translating it) not long ago, i kinda know this shit and it bugs me bc i really want the freedom, doing my own taxes and accounting is not freedom. thats unpaid work with nazi deadlines that will bite your head off if you do the smalles mistake.

>>2550275
go to college

>>2549455
I did it for about a decade but I really got sick of dealing with clients. Nice to not have to deal with people, nice to have stable and regular hours, nice to have all the benefits thrown in. All added up I make more money as employee than I ever did self employed, health, dental, vacation, sick leave, retirement plan, employer matching and contributions to retirement plan, not having to buy any tools/equipment/materials, etc.

>>2550584
And the loans?

>>2549455
Which seems easier:
>take on a half milly or more in debt to open your own business so you can be the boss
Or
>work for an established company and make the same money or more without any of the assaches involved with running a business

>>2550598
pay them? what do you normally do about loans?
I don't know your situation. but I went to school on scholarship and only took out one loan of $3500 (a necessity due to some complications with the scholarship money going through my second semester) which I had no problem paying back shortly after graduating. I could've paid it back sooner, but it was a subsidized loan meaning no interest was accruing.
it's probably best to start at community college if you don't have a scholarship.

depending on how old you are, you may already have been working for several years, in which case you should have plenty saved up for a state school. once you're in school, you should focus on networking and making as many connections as you can, with classmates, professors, go to job fairs, do internships, just constantly meet people. networking and internships are the most important thing by far, a degree alone (even in STEM) isn't worth much anymore. even entry level positions mostly demand 3-5 years experience, and rest assured they get applicants with those qualifications. DO NOT graduate without a job lined up. I repeat, DO NOT graduate without a job lined up. take another semester of electives if you have to.

>>2550653
>pay them? what do you normally do about loans?
I just don't take any. Last time I checked, federal rates were ~7%. That's shit's terrifying. I read nothing but bad news about college and the lack of jobs coming out. I didn't want to put myself at risk like that when I was in HS.
When I asked my teachers how they dealt with their college loan debt, they reacted like I asked them to point out a Mafioso. Huge weight on their minds. Multiple were working theirs off, one had her husband pay it for her, and the oldest one refused to talk about it.

In my case, I've never had a job (my family was worried for my safety), and the recent market failures have ruined my plans to do things from scratch at home.

GED, but scored well on the PSAT and was dragged around the country by mobile family following that for a few years. In my early 20s. Haven't the slightest clue about anything, and I don't know where to get any sort of reliable grounding. Ready to just hunker down as an eternal NEET.

>>2549455
I do, at 22. I went to a 20 month college program for a bachelor's in computer science. I worked for a subcontractor of a large aerospace company. It was nice because I was making $75k starting and $90k after I left. The whole time I was building my sticker website and now I'm buying a local print shop for $40k. T-shirts, signage, stickers, and vinyl. God has blessed me to do great things with this opportunity and I just recently closed on the deal. Already have a ton of orders lined up with local businesses, just finishing clearing up shop.

>>2550680
>inb4 buy a house first
I mortgaged a condo in 2020 for $190k, now valued at $275k and have two of my colleagues as renters. I live with my gf of 4 years and soon to be wife.

>>2549455

Or gets trade and when you get bored with the job or your boss is a fuckhead, you move to another job

>>2550680
>God has blessed me to do great things with this opportunity
literally kys

>>2550657
>the oldest one refused to talk about it
probably because they paid it off in a week
tuition was pretty cheap up until 20 years ago

>>2550657
Also I spent maybe $25k on my technologist education and I'm earning over $100k a year now, I think that was a good investment

>>2549455
Any experience with making the jump and getting clients? I'm fully licensed with pest control and work for a medium sized company. I would be interested in a few jobs on the side for extra pocket money, but I have no idea how to put myself out there.

>>2549960
this. I went the trade to engineer pipeline. Better pay and better working conditions with the option of going back on the tools if needed

>>2550750
For starters youll need to get an idea of how saturated your market is. Im in a niche field that is 90% word of mouth. In your line of work, I suspect its going to come down to a good website, money invested in SEO and google ads and a shit ton of posting on social media etc. You need to be one of the top hits when people google your keywords (you can research the best keywords). It will take a few years to build enough of a client base that they are sending your name around to friends, so early on establish yourself online. Make sure you sort out your safety protocols and insurance, and weigh the pros and cons of incorporating vs sole proprietorship.

It took me about 5 years before I stopped touching my website, social media etc since I dont need external customers anymore.

>>2549638
In my state its a nightmare to get licensed. The unions legit write the licensing laws 50 years ago.

Most companies now a days couldnt survive the onslaught they have made...ie Pulling up the economic ladder. So I left being a electrician. It took me 7 years to realized how fucking crazy it is. I would need 3 more years and 4 years of state required education to get my license. For what 80k a year once taxs and such are done. I would rather get some tech certs. before finishing my A+ i got a 60k a year job. I make as much as a foreman without all the weather and shit hours. 2 hours often a day driving...always having to spend an hour to shower after a 10 hour day. Been too tired for anything after work. The trades are a fucking nightmare. I went through the BAC 4 and IBEW 41 before I realized what a fucking nightmare it all is.


Leave the trades.

>>2550645
>half milly in debt

Depends on the field, I invested:
>5k downpayment on a truck (ford transit)
>10k in tools and material
>10k saved as float money to hold me over if work was slow

I think a half million would be a stretch unless you needed some heavy equipment or rent a storage unit etc.

>>2550708
God loves you.

>>2550783
>God loves you.

There is absolutely no evidence of this in the history of mankind, except what lying liars have said.

>>2550791
He could have aborted you but he didn't

>>2550791
There was that one time he came down and told us.

>>2550795
4chan, 50/50 chance every thread will have a religious nut or a pedo show up. I prefer the religious nuts, but still.

>>2550796
We could not make the shroud of Turin today no matter how much money you paid the greatest expert on it to try and copy it. There has never been such a phenomena on any other burial garment.

>>2550798
Nobody cares

>>>/x/

>>2550800
No, you've been brainwashed to hate the truth you see everyday with your eyes by open Satanists that took over our education system.

There is nothing that matters more in your life than this

leme tell u i dont corporate and do a nigger webstie, well for starters my skin is black and as a nigger i instnantly have -100 iq, and u see that also means i am the ugliest nigger ever, well all niggers are ugly, which is instead of all that i resort to raping and killing and strealing and drugging other niggers, i hate niggers kys

>>2550795
Then after 400 years of playing telephone, we finally decided to write the account of it down in a series of books purple monkey dishwasher.

>>2550815
This doesn't even make sense anon. It was called a letter to the Roman's because it was a letter. They listed names of people popular at the time in Rome. They talked about popular Roman fashion. You think the council of nicea are such good liars that they know this minutiae about Rome 300 years before?

You think everyone was just so down bad for the possibility of religious grift in 1500 years that they preached until they were executed?

>>2549455
Mechanic work for relative commercial rental is prohibitively expensive and so is insurance.