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/diy/ - Do-It-Yourself

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2471102 No.2471102 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Besides from the fun of it, is melting cans cost effective? From buying the cans out of hobos or collecting them yourself, to the energy cost of melting them, and the ratio you get from the pounds of cans you melt to the pounds of actual aluminum you cast without mentioning the ROI of the gear required, is it worth the time and effort to make lingots and sell them too keep doing it ?

>> No.2471111

You are going to need a lot of can. God hope you didn't not breath in whatever polymer interior emits.

>> No.2471133

for fun or use, sure if you can get them cheaper than dirt or free because you get very very little al from them, and it's shitty cheap pot metal quality anyway. for sale, only if you have an electric furnace and use it at work while supposed to be working, otherwise it's 100% not worth it.

>> No.2471443

How much of your taxes go into infrastructure stuff?

>> No.2471453

Home cast ingot aremystery alloy and worthless.
Recyclers want the trash untampered, so they can grate it themself.

>> No.2471456

>Home cast ingot aremystery alloy and worthless.

Surely, it's not worthless if you can CNC machine it into usable aluminum parts? As you said, mystery alloy makes it a lot less valuable but you don't need high quality alloys for everything

>> No.2471467

>you can
Op wants to sell this and no one commissions potmetal.

Casting nonshit aluminium is dificult, a soda can ingot will be swiss cheese from all the dross.

An alloy rim can be had for pennys and is better source material from the get go

>> No.2471606

Film it. With a little editing you have a solid channel.

>> No.2471626

especially with the price of propane these days
it makes garbage ingots

only ingots worth casting are from auto scrap made with something like A356

what kind of a retard would use cast aluminum for machining parts?

>> No.2471636

>Besides from the fun of it, is melting cans cost effective?

Not personally since it's a waste of time and energy and fuel. Recycling cans has a benefit non-scrappers ignores. Cans prove their alloy without having to guess or use an XRF gun at the recycler. Melted cans require assaying (or they'd be bought at a low grade price to cover the buyer.

Melting REALLY excites autspergies so there are many melting threads, but when in doubt visit scrapper communities (4chan is not one as it's not many other things) to learn most profitable strategies.

>Surely, it's not worthless if you can CNC machine it into usable aluminum parts?

If you can afford a decent machine shop you have much more profitable uses for your time (no matter how much of it you have) than melting cans and machining them into bar stock. Common aluminum alloys are not seriously expensive. The only reason to melt and cast that makes sense is if your casting to get a shape (say an model aircraft engine crankcase or similar) then finish machining to complete the part.

^This too

Just have fun and melt shit. If you toss magnesium into a campfire the results are glorious fire.

>> No.2471699

Thanks, OP here, I'm just wondering if it's cost effective so it can pay for itself at least, I'm not trying to flip anything or hodl AL (saw the chart, price plummeted hard) I'll see what can I gather from the internet and then get to try it, again I just want this to be a round hobby if i wanted to spend money on a hobby that won't pay for itself I'll do vydia or some other shit

>> No.2471712

It'll be fun to melt some cans and cast them into shitty swords or whatever. Don't expect a return on your investment, unless you trying something new and having fun is a ROI (which it is!)

>> No.2471736

No, cans are a horrible alloy for casting.
Ingots are a meme and have no metal value.

>> No.2471740

You are all fucking retarded.
32 cans makes a fucking pound of aluminum. That's a fuckload of aluminum for any home gamer.

>> No.2471743

Why would you worry about cost? You're not seriously implying that the market serves your needs, are you?
When did everyone here take the capital pills?

>> No.2471760

>so it can pay for itself at leas
building and operating a foundry is a money pit.
Even run on free waste oil you will spend hundreds on the burner and refractory material, crucible, lifting gear and PPE. You will fail building it durable and start over again.
If you want to cast shit, at least do something that sells on etsy instead of ripping of bickstackD treasure to trash.
>what is surface area
you will loose half of that to oxidation, and those oxides will structurally ruin the alloy as they dont precipitate out completely

>> No.2471931

Without being a fatzo, dumpster diving or robbing a hobo/boy where and when can I get 30 cans? meanwhile I can find a free bike online and god knows how much tube and panels if I step into a hoarder's yard.

>> No.2471947

Nobody is going to buy your ingots, because they're impure. The grade aluminum used for cans is shit to begin with. Cans are typically made with two grades of aluminum - one for the sides, and a different one for the bottom, so melting them together gets you an alloy nobody wants or needs. It doesn't cast well, so hobbyists don't want it.
Don't fall for the YouTube retards. None of them sell ingots. They claim to, but they're lying. You can see ads on Jewbay and other sites of retards trying to sell pallets of useless aluminum ingots, for pennies a pound - and they don't sell.
If you're going to melt cans, do it knowing it's 100% hobby, and you'll never profit from it. At best your ingots will sell to scrapyards for the lowest price they pay for bulk cans.

>> No.2471950

You are not pouring ingots that are good enough to machine at home. You're fucking clueless, stop posting.

>> No.2471953

>The only reason to melt and cast that makes sense is if your casting to get a shape (say an model aircraft engine crankcase or similar) then finish machining to complete the part.
Melted cans don't mold well. At best they're good for useless shit, like pouring down an ant hill. People who cast in aluminum can get better alloys and purities for casting as cheap as shitty melted cans.
Melted can ingots are basically useless.

>> No.2472337

>Thanks, OP here, I'm just wondering if it's cost effective so it can pay for itself at least,

Recyclers are able to pay a premium for cans over other aluminum because the aluminum can industry subsidizes recycling of them.
Once you melt them, they are no longer a can and lose the subsidy value.
Recycle the cans and use the money to buy something better suited for your /diy/ projects/

>> No.2472439

>is melting cans cost effective
>is it worth the time and effort to make lingots
>sell them
no one will but them
if your intent is bulk sale to recycler, crush or shred

>> No.2472451
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>what kind of a retard would use cast aluminum for machining parts?

One of the smartest machinists on youtube does it.



>> No.2473357

not cost effective.. garbage alloy.. tons of dross.. doesnt cast ffor shit and is too hard to machine.

Honestly you are better off using that time to work some more and buy some proper aluminum stock that will go through endmills like nothing else.

>> No.2473365

Making ingots will never, ever, be worth it financially. You're not getting any more per pound and you're burning fuel.

>> No.2473400

>Imagine wasting so much propane to melt cans like a nigger
>take the induction furnace pill
>DIY that shit from some hi-amp wire an old microwave and and a 50k v step up transformer
>cans turn to molten liquid in seconds with chad-duction furnace

>> No.2473629

>not building a 300kw used engine oil burner from junkyard blower and pipe fittings

>> No.2473683

>People still pay for fuel?
Waste oil gets you 130,000-180,000 BTU/gal, or 10-14 kWh/L.
Veggie or motor oil, doesn't matter, the contaminants make the bigger difference.

20lbs of propane typically runs $10-$25 across the US.
Not including bottle price or deposits because that shit doesn't matter.
420,679 BTU in a 20lb bottle of propane, 17,000-42,000 BTU/dollar.

Whereas with waste oil, I currently push 30,000,000-41,500,000 BTU/dollar, as my blower pulls 30W, which means it runs about $0.00432 per hour, and I max out with this burner at 1 gallon per hour.

So about 700x-2400x cheaper than propane.

You can put together a waste oil burner for the price of a few propane refills.
You can keep your propane bottle and use it to make an oil reservoir if you're feeling cheeky, it'll hold 500,000+ BTU worth of oil at a time and it costs you absolutely nothing to fill it.
Tons of businesses are THRILLED to give away used cooking oil, they typically pay to have it removed, you taking a few gallons for free is cash in their pocket. Engine oil can go either way, many are glad to have you take it, others have a strict procedure and don't want to risk breaking from it.

>> No.2473695
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My new 50kW build, wanted to play around with a peristaltic pump and PWM control for oil flow, thought it'd be fun.
I already use a simple PWM speed controller for the blower motor so airspeed is easily adjustable.
3D printed adapter to accept the blower.
The oil feed line is retained at the adapter (zip ties are only there during assembly), and sits comfortably in the burner without moving around.
This setup makes it very easy to remove or replace the feed line, I could easily push this particular burner past 150kW if I felt like sizing it up, but this feed line is matched to the pump I'm using for oil.
Coupler lets me experiment with secondary air if I feel like it, but I don't think it'll be necessary with this setup.

Can't wait to see how lean I can run it.

>> No.2475526

That's why I generalized at "melt and cast" because it's not just a can issue re: alloys.

The only casting worth doing makes items requiring finish machining, and most of those can be done using superior methods.

>> No.2475529

Not (cans) and OP isn't a machinist. Nearly every small machine shop used to have a foundry but unless you're already a machinist a foundry is just a distraction from the work you should be doing to obtain your own machine shop (not hard with a little determination).

I weld and have a machine shop but have no compelling case for foundry. Few do.

>> No.2475636

simple drip feed, no atomizing?

>> No.2475721

It's pump-fed, but right, there is no atomizer.
It's very similar but not quite the same as a gravity-fed burner.

>> No.2475741

fuck, i think i rube goldberged mine to much, building it around an ali syphon nozzle and 500w triac controlled leaf blower. waiting for some fittings and hopefully doing the first melt next week.

so you pump it with a peristaltic pump, cheap and oil proof. these pumps pulsate to some degree, does this affect the flame or does it get smoothed out?

>> No.2475765

Smooth as silk, but I've only gotten to play around with one at full-tilt, haven't tried my new one with the PWM controller on it. They're inexpensive, consistent, and extremely serviceable, just have to find one that pushes the right amount of fluid for your needs. I find that most push about 75% of their rating when pumping used motor oil, that is a 400cc/hr pump usually pushes 300cc/hr of oil in my very limited experience.

glumpy10 aka Oil Burner on Jewtubez has done numerous that use automotive fuel pumps running VERY infrequently, just a quick pulse every 5+ seconds, and they run impressively smooth.

Don't be worrying about your setup.
I would build one in a heartbeat if I was running it anywhere near my compressor, but for me portability is more important, and my compressor doesn't get hauled around.
Those siphon nozzles and shit that run off a compressor, they work REALLY well.
You'll get amazing atomization, it'll be easier to light than any "drip" system like my own, it'll warm up faster, and it'll burn more efficiently during the warm-up.
Once you get it going, it'll be more than capable of melting all of your doubts into a puddle of beer cans.

With my setup, a car battery is enough to keep it burning for several days, which is definitely nice, but I have to dope some of my oil with gasoline and pre-heat a 5.5lb steel pipe to get it lit.
From cold to actually melting can take me 30-45 minutes, potentially more if I'm fighting weather.
Your siphon nozzle atomizer will be WAY easier to live with, and still be a tiny fraction of the price of propane.

>> No.2475815

A machine shop wouldn't be melting cans for ingots, they'd buy good ones, regardless of what material, like aluminum, or bronze, or iron. Nobody is selling parts to customers from shit can melts. Well, maybe in Africa, or India...

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