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/diy/ - Do-It-Yourself

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2470470 No.2470470 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

If I want to store 10-20 kilowatts or more excess energy, what would be the best way of doing so?

Easiest one would be a huge-ass plumbum-sulphuric acid battery like in a car but the size of a small room. A bit unconventional, but costs a thousand bucks instead of 20.000 when you buy LiFePo-shit for something like solar panels.

What else? Is pumping water up somewhere worth the effort?

>> No.2470485

Probably a small water tower or a large flywheel.

>> No.2470492

Battery likely cheapest way
No idea how much water or rotating mass you'd need to store 20KW but I imagine it'd be a lot

>> No.2470503

kw is not energy you fucking nitwits and it cannot be stored.

>> No.2470504

What form is the energy in?

If it's electricity then you can do hydrolysis and store the hydrogen for use in a fuel cell or burning.

Of course improper handling of it will turn your neighborhood into a crater.

>> No.2470661

LFP is like $0.10 per watthour if you /diy/ a pack, $0.20 if you buy cheap chink packs, $0.40-$0.50 if you buy professionally built packs. So a 10kWh battery will be $1000-$5000. Nothing is better or more cost effective for storage than LFP since it has way better lifetime than lead acid. Water storage might be worth it if you have the space for a pond and want to store half a megawatt maybe, not if you're going to use shitty IBCs on your roof.

>> No.2470662


>> No.2470665

No, he clearly wants /lgbt/ or /hm/.

>> No.2470668

You can buy a 14kWh lifepo battery ready to go for $3800 stupid. You just blow in from 2011?

>> No.2470696

> Easiest one would be a huge-ass plumbum-sulphuric acid battery like in a car but the size of a small room.
Setting up a safe room for such an amount of lead acid batteries already costs more than a lifepo setup for 20kwh. Which is why in a domestic setting tesla powerwall is a thing and lead acid battery room is not and has never been.

> Is pumping water up somewhere worth the effort?
Even if you had access to a pond big enough above your house, pumps, turbines and plumbings would cost at least an order of magnitude more than lifepo batteries for tiny amounts like 20kwh. You'd still need batteries (1-2kwh at least) to cold start the system anyway.

Easiest, most expensive: tesla powerwall or equivalent pre-made pack
Hardest, cheapest: diy lifepo pack manually testing and soldering aliexpress cells.
Smartest: to own an electric car and use that battery, but it's no viable yet as far as I know.

>> No.2470707

^ This

>> No.2471285

Why do you faggots need to nitpick, he probably meant kWhr

>> No.2471288


sure dad. meet me at the bus station in 5. Oh wait, you were there 5 hours because you assumed I meant 5 minutes? LOL sry bout that.

>> No.2471302

Where do you lot even source this shit. No way would an ordinary person be allowed to store a room full of lead batteries in my cunt.

>> No.2471313

Pumping water is /diy/
Battery chemistry is buying tier

>> No.2471322

lead batteries are actually pretty easy make.

>> No.2471337

A lead acid battery the size of a room would cost an astronomical amount of money, if only for the metal value of the lead inside. Lead acid batteries currently scrap for something like £0.40/kg.
You could collect loads and loads of old lead acid batteries from cars and forklifts and stuff for quite cheap, but you need proper ventilation and shit for a Pb battery room to not be an explosion waiting to happen.

LiFePo4 is easier and lasts decades if used properly. Pumped storage is only worth it if you're storing dozens of megawatts of power.

If you want to store heat energy, like for heating your house and hot water, then a big water tank is best. It's very cheap and can store a ton of energy.

>> No.2471341

what if I combine heat energy storage with peltier elements to create a "battery"?

>> No.2471347

This mindset is why you don't have a battery room, anon.

>> No.2472137

I've read of people converting swimming pools into batteries, but i recall they have terrible size-to-performance ratio. If you're using that energy specifically for heating or cooling it'd prob be easier to just use a large insulated water tank as direct thermal storage.

I recently bought 20kw of LiFePo4 Eve cells for $3,500. Hard to beat for price vs performance.

>> No.2472301

>allowing feds to halt your battery room dreams
cucked, unbased and ngmi

>> No.2472319
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Pumping water up? Maybe

Consider what happens in an enclosed metallic vessal with piping from bottom to top, filled with a quality polyethylene glycol mixture. Use certain fibers through the piping to promote climbing action.

Consider arranging the unit so as the piping/reservoir could sit in the sun to warm. The other side in shade or underground.

The metallic reservoir shoul ba square or rectangle etc. Because what you do is time the temperature difference with pressure, then divide the pie. Consult your grandmother before pulling the sides outward and tieing it off tight around my balls, creating a long hydraulic suck off the tip of my cock.

Consider the reservoir sides being concaved and pulled, that whip like snap off the cheek of an ass.

Thermal mechanical everflowing gravity pump machine utilizing fluid that flows together as if linked by a chain. Electric recovery with dynamo.

Store that energy in lithium ion AND consider building or buying a magnetic floating vacuumized flywheel battery. NASA gas some nice ones. Also amber kinetics.

Simple solar could power a correctly engineered flywheel battery.

>> No.2472330

How much energy can be stored as air pressure let's say I collect 50 expired liquid propane tanks and put them in parallel.
1500L @ 300psi = recoverable watts?

>> No.2472410


Terrible example. "Cya in 5m" and it turned out 5 months rather than 5 mins would be better, but then after 15mins you would call again. Or maybe if you had a good relationship with your dad, you would have understood how he regularly misinterprets simple information, and would need to clarify. Like how he showed his patience and love while you took your time growing up and taking his every word literal...unless you never had that and feel the need to ridicule and belittle. Hope things work out for you kid.

>> No.2472450

i know in germany they have stirling generators specifically made to be mounted to a central heating system

>> No.2472717

You fail, OP

>> No.2472720

There's a guy on YouTube that did this. Mounted a 50 gallon tank to his roof and used a solar pump to passively move water up to it. Then in evening used water flow to turn a generator and power his lights. The return on energy for water volume was absolute dogshit. I think the entire tank of water could only power his string lights for a few hours despite being over 400lbs of water mass almost 30' in the air.

Not gonna rewatch to confirm numbers, but here it is:

>> No.2472733

You lose energy to the environment literally all the time by conduction and radiation. Only efficient if you need to store said energy for a few hours max. 20kwh is heating 100 gal to 200f (lower temperatures are less efficient).

20kwh is an olympic pool at 10 feet. Potential energy is extremely inefficient in terms of mass and volume

You either buy battery, diy battery, or do something even more dangerous like diy a hydrogen generator, storage, and generator. It would be fun probably but immensely stupid too

>> No.2472742

Bad example as both of these are the right unit. His example at least used the right "wrongness" of the units. I would just use "cya in 25kW" which doesn't mean anything really without further information just like OPs post.

When people say i need to store 10kW i assume they want to store 10kW incoming power however many energy that may end up being.

It's a very different thing to store 10kWh at 10kW or 10kWh at 4000kW.

>> No.2473027

you go to ebay and order 100 lead acid batteries and some angry wagie delivers it to your door whats the problem?

>> No.2473028

>Battery chemistry is buying tier
I dunno. Lithium chemistries are probably out of the reach of a hobbyist, but stuff like the nickel–iron battery is pretty easier to make.

>> No.2473029

well according to this https://hackaday.com/2010/06/10/making-liquid-nitrogen-at-home/ you need 9.6kWh/l for liquid nitrogen how much energy can you get back? Apparently up to 64% according to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0959652617314051
might be worth looking into but I doubt its easy to do.

>> No.2473032

Terrible efficiency.
Peltier elements are like 8% efficient, which means your round trip efficiency (storage and discharge) is like 0.6%

>> No.2473044

The best way to store excess energy is in human children. Each person representing about 1.5 kw/h when propperly maintained. The best part is its extremely easy to DIY a clutch of human children. You just need 1 male unit and a handful of females.

>> No.2473069

Ah, yes, lets store 3-7 cubic meters of hydrogen in the back yard to use it in internal combustion engines.

Or use a PEM fuel cell, which requires compressing the hydrogen, drying it and of course, investing at least a few $k in a 1kw fuel cell

That's a lot of dangerous and expensive shit to diy for an overall efficiency of less than 50%

>> No.2473073

build the 20kw flywheel

>> No.2473121

its too bad noone does what you describe, in fact its the opposite for high current telco loads you fucking fumbass
>rooms with glass/lead acid 2 volt jars the size of trashcans, providing 6000+ short circuit amps in a single volt string and last over 15 years powering concentrators and cellphone towers.

t. dc provisioning tech in telco

>> No.2473175

Ain't no one gonna pump any water when you can buy these for $1500.

>> No.2473176
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>> No.2473216


>> No.2473229

>greater than 7k cycles at 80% depth-of-discharge

>> No.2473233
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>exhange dollars for thousands of pennies.
>Sand off copper on one side to expose zinc, leave copper on other side
>stack them copper side to zinc side with wet paper between
Cheap single use battery stack

>> No.2473242
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lead acid battery rooms are fairly common in big time installations

>> No.2473308


>> No.2473476

Nobody does what I described? People build LiFePo4 battery banks all the time.
Telco battery banks last a long time because they're designed for deep discharge/longevity with massive cells and thick plates, and they're only cycled when the power goes out. If you cycle lead acid batteries every day, they're not going to last 10 years. You might get 5 or 6.
Also, OP is clearly inexperienced and is trying to put something together for low cost. Those massive battery banks require a bit of knowledge and building infrastructure to do right: ventilation to prevent gas buildup, adsorption/float charging cycles, etc.

I'm not saying they're impossible. I have a 700 Ah battery bank made from old datacenter UPS batteries which powers my workshop, but if someone is trying to build something that will last and power their home, LiFePo4 is the way to go.

Yep, we have one at work. Racks and racks of -48V equipment. Wouldn't really recommend that someone build one in their basement if they don't know much about lead acid batteries.

>> No.2473477

>t. Alessandro Volta

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