/diy/ - Do It Yourself

[Anonymous No.2012747]

a friend broke his acoustic guitar and asked me if i could fix it

i used a lot of titebond glue and kept it clamped for 24 hours before putting the strings back on. i filled the cracks with superglue and sanded down so its smooth, but its still ugly

heres a video i made of the procedure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V_mqZmx8I4&

[Anonymous No.2012748]

i know a real luthier would have routed splines in the back and filled them with dowels for more structural support. i was worried that the titebond glue wouldnt hold but so far its been 3 days. i will wait a week before returning it to see if the joint will hold but so far so good

[Anonymous No.2012757]

>>2012748
That one is a clean enough break that splines are not needed, the wood should mate up nicely and glue well. If it was well clamped the joint should be stronger than the wood, which means it is now stronger than it was before the break.

If this came into my shop the only reason I would spline it is if the customer wanted extra support or the guitar sees a lot of abuse. For most I would put a pair of tacks in the joint to make sure it stays aligned during glueup and nothing more, if the joint is tight I would use hot hide, if not tight I would use epoxy. Most people just want quick and cheap and are happy with it being as strong as new and such repairs tend to hold up just fine, the few I have had come back for a break broke in a new spot.

[Anonymous No.2012793]

>>2012747
This will fail. You have used a surface adhesive on an unstable surface.

[Anonymous No.2012846]

>>2012793
It may fail but not because of the reasons you gave. A clean break like that is a fantastic glue surface for most any glue and Titebond does soak into most woods, certainly does on mahogany. If it fails it will be because his single clamp was not enough to pull the entire joint tight enough and squeeze out excessive glue but his squeeze out looks good and the joint looks tight, but it is difficult to say given the single angle and lighting.

[Anonymous No.2012861]

>>2012846
A "clean break" is a dubious term. Unless you confirmed that it's one break and there is no weakening in the fibers next to the break plane you are in for a bad day. I would be not surprised if it just broke again right next to the glue. Also, that's why flat milled wood sucks for necks.

[Anonymous No.2012875]

>>2012861
There would be at least some splintering if there was enough damage to the nearby wood to cause issues. Hence the term, clean break, there is no splintering, likely some right up by the plastic headstock veneer, but that is well support the veneer and very minimal. Could not even guess how many times I have done this very repair, only difference is I would have used a second clamp most likely and most likely would have used hide glue since a head stock breaking shock will cause hide glue to let go most of the time instead of breaking new wood. Makes an easy repair.

[Anonymous No.2013029]

>>2012846
i should say that off camera i did add 2 other clamps on both sides of the headstock

maybe for clarity i'll add an annotation on the video

[Anonymous No.2013038]

Through bolt a support. Mine came apart the first time when it was just glue.

[Anonymous No.2013049]

>>2013038
after how long did it come apart?

[Anonymous No.2013065]

>>2013049
Couple months but I left it in a hot car.

[Anonymous No.2013070]

>>2013065
what kind of glue did you use?

[Anonymous No.2013127]

>>2013038
Literally looks like you just jammed epoxy putty in there like a window licker thinking "dur this is better than wood glue"

[Anonymous No.2013184]

>>2013038

What the fuck bro

[Anonymous No.2013192]

>>2013038
Nice work

[Anonymous No.2013200]

>>2013029
You should be just fine then. Titebond forms a strong joint on mahogany, Squeeze out was good, things looked tight, you looked like you did your homework. Personally I hate splines, pretty much destroys the neck if it takes a head breaking blow.

>>2013038
I have seen worse.

[Anonymous No.2013204]

in this case you need to use that fiberglass wrap stuff IMO

[Anonymous No.2013206]

>>2013200
yeah in some pics ive seen, the subsequent breaks happen arround the splines. im no pro but this seems exponentially harder to fix

[Anonymous No.2013211]

>>2013206
It generally means just replace that section of wood, which is much more work. Splines are for when the joint can not pull together tightly or the damage is more wide spread. The only problem with OPs repair is that it was made with Titebond, so if it does fail at the glue joint you have no real option but epoxy since most glues will not stick to Titebond and cleaning the old Titebond out is a pain. Epoxy is not bad here, looks like a modern Epiphone so having the more obvious epoxy repair and the glue line it would leave is not going to effect the value much at all over any headstock repair.

Never seen metal splines before. That was designed to fail, wood expands and contracts with the seasons, metal does not, the glue holding the metal to the wood will break down eventually because of this.

[Anonymous No.2013216]

>>2012747
If it does break apart again, especially if more pieces come off either side, what you want to do is drill into both sides from the broken off surface, 2 holes on each side should do, and insert dowels on both sides, tap em together until it sits right, superglue both ends inside. Wait. Cover the dowel-guitar connection with super glue. Wait. Fill in missing areas with epoxy, sand that down to correct shape and then refinish the area with any preferred method.
t. Done this before.

Ps. I used cyanoacrylate which is a crystallyzing cement type glue but any super glue should work here.

[Anonymous No.2013220]

>>2013216
Dowels are the worst when it comes to future breaks, the concentrate the load onto just the area around the dowels and the damage is massive if there is another break down the road. There is good reason luthiers use splines in situations where glue alone is not enough.

[Anonymous No.2013266]

>>2013184
It just werks

[Anonymous No.2013454]

>>2013220
Yes, if it got broken again somehow. But a dowel forms an active bridge between both pieces and is structurally the best option, especially in this kind of situation, as the forces at play from the strings pull the whole construction forward and together, so a dowel is not only reinforced by applied constrictive force, this force is then counterbalancing to the forward pulling force.
Basically, if they manage to break it again after inserting a dowel, which if done right is stronger than almost any alternative barring inserting a steel plated with reinforcements, it's way past time for a whole new neck anyway.

[Anonymous No.2013695]

>>2013454
Yes, I am aware of how a dowel through a joint works. Think about what happens if something pushes hard against the back of the headstock, the wood starts to flex but the dowels stop it and all that force is now concentrated on two points of the dowels. This is why splines are preferred, they spread the forces out over a few inches of length and most of the depth, not just the leading and trailing edge. Getting that nice long grain glue joint is a good thing and still allows the neck to flex as it should. Flexing when it takes a blow will keep things from breaking.

Few people are going to pay for a new neck, especially if it is a set neck instrument which will need a neck made, you fix it or you loose a client, when you fix it you either do so with foresight to future damage or you loose a client or shoot yourself in the foot when they bring it back to you.

Also, if a doweled headstock does break and they come back to you and you quote them $1k to carve a new neck and replace the old, chances are they are going to go to a different luthier and odds are that luthier is going to tell them what I just said about the dowels. Dowels are just lazy, once you make the jig splines only take 5 minutes to route and install and you have a much stronger joint.

[Anonymous No.2013727]

>>2013695
If they hit the back of the head on a patched guitar hard enough to smash a proper dowel joint, i'm billing them double for idiocy or sending them to a luthier that's in it for the fast inferior-method cash like you.

[Anonymous No.2013819]

>>2012747
wood glue and clamp
the wood will give out before the glue ever does.

[Anonymous No.2013908]

>>2013819
ya i did that and its holding up better than i thought, check out the vidya

[Anonymous No.2014037]

>>2013727
>fast inferior-method
How exactly are you drilling your holes that they makes spines look fast? You do realize you are supposed to put the bit in a drill, right?

But, your the pro here, what do I know.

[Anonymous No.2014068]

>>2014037

I don't see why you're arguing with me if you don't even understand the relative difference in time it takes to measure and line up 4-6 holes with one side being a non-platonic shape, at an angle that's reciprocated on both sides versus lining up the pieces and taking a machine to it to carve a straight line on the back to put splines in. Splines are obviously the faster and inferior method and the fact they're luthier industry standard is unfortunate but does not make them superior to dowels.

[Anonymous No.2014084]

plz stop fighting i just wanted to show me fixing my frens guitar

[Anonymous No.2014089]

>>2014068
A simple jig is all it takes to insure those holes line up, same jig you would use to align headstock and neck for routing when doing splines on a headstock which has fully broken off and does not have the veneer keep things aligned. Just need to add a drill guide. Clamp everything in, pull the neck, drill, put the neck back in, align, clamp, pull the head and drill. Splines glued in with hide will fail with reasonable grace, dowels do not.

>>2014084
Having had to fix a number of broken doweled headstock repairs over the years, it is difficult to ignore larpers pretending they know what they are talking about and offering such shit advice.

[Anonymous No.2014101]

>>2014084
Didn't mean to, this guy is just talking out of his ass and i felt i had to explain why he's wrong in case he's arguing in good faith, which he obviously isn't.
I mean, imagine thinking a patch on that back that he admits breaks off easier and "more gracefully" is the sure way to go on a guitar that's already been damaged.
But my dude, enough of that, give us more pics of the fix, i'd like to see more angles to properly appreciate the patch!

[Anonymous No.2015227]

>>2012747
yo dom can I suck yo dick real quick

[Anonymous No.2015526]

>>2015227
i need an adult

[Anonymous No.2015578]

>>2014084
>Luthier
Someone who fixes guitars

There are probably books that deal with just this.

NOTE: with a guitar the strings pull the next in the opposite direction and the force has to be steady for the guitar to stay in tune. Usually there is a connecting rod in the neck of a guitar (especially steel string). So it's not as simple as "making it strong".

[Anonymous No.2015663]

>>2012747
Got mine broken for free, fixed with epoxy, playing for some 10 years on it now

[Anonymous No.2015878]

here it is bros. just a last pic before i return it to my friend. i let it sit for a week and its holding up. i think its time to give it back

[Anonymous No.2016672]

>>2015878
How did you hide the crack on the front of the headstock? Analine dye?

[Anonymous No.2018596]

>>2014068
Hurr durr i use big words that means me is smart

[Anonymous No.2018614]

>>2013038
>and slam to a hard Bb power chord!
>oh fuck half the skin is missing from my thumb

[Anonymous No.2018730]

>>2016672
i used a fucking sharpie lmao

[Anonymous No.2019741]

/watch?v=mRc7ZDRcgrQ

Try this would look cool as well.