/diy/ - Do It Yourself

[Anonymous No.1889588]

Do you use nutz as a permanent part or just for testing?

[Anonymous No.1889608]

>>1889588
Permanent, with no tape

[Anonymous No.1889610]

>>1889608
I'd use tape if it didn't turn to shit in a year ( live in AZ )

[Anonymous No.1889678]

I only use them where the wires will not be subject to movement or vibration.

[Anonymous No.1889794]

I use solder. Because I don't trust these things.

[Anonymous No.1889809]

I bought a small assortment for when I moved into my house and was hanging up fans and stuff, but now they sit in my drawer and I don't even realize I still have them 99% of the time. I do a fair bit of electronics bullshittery with plenty of wiring but I usually just crimp on some Spade or bullet connectors if I wanted to be removable or I'm just testing because like I said I don't even remember I have those laying around.

[Anonymous No.1889901]

>>1889678
Like in a box in a wall, the application they’re meant for.

Wire nuts are quick, cheap and easy, so the show up in lots of places they shouldn’t be.

[Anonymous No.1889915]

>>1889794
You're supposed to use mechanical connections instead of soldering in high power applications.

[Anonymous No.1889970]

Setscrew wirenut master race. All shall bow before their superiority.

[Anonymous No.1889972]

I use these, because I'm lazy.

[Anonymous No.1889998]

>>1889915
If wire ain't finger thick, you can solder it.

[Anonymous No.1890015]

>>1889972
>I use these, because I'm a sensible person who recognises a superior connection method when he sees it.
ftfy

[Anonymous No.1890021]

>>1889998
Its not about whether it can be physically soldered, its whether its a good idea.

[Anonymous No.1890028]

>>1889970
That is nonsense

[Anonymous No.1890032]

>>1890015
Push connectors have Far less conductor contact compared to wire nuts means they produce an inferior connection.
They're only "superior" if you're a retard who can't twist bare wire ends together clockwise and secure with a wire nut.

[Anonymous No.1890080]

>>1890021
You know, you can solder finger thick wire, but you'd need giant ass pliers in order to get reliable mechanical joint.

[Anonymous No.1890082]

>>1890032
Wire nuts are retarded. You need to have wire twisted before you twist the nut on, at which point why not just solder the shit and make sure shit aint going anywhere.
Contact area is shit in wirenuts, because wago has vaseline in them

[Anonymous No.1890085]

>>1890082
You do realize that solder joints are against code and you must use a wire nut or other mechanical connection right?
Solder joints fail from thermal cycling and cause fires in walls. The code exists because of all the wiring fires in the 60s.

[Anonymous No.1890088]

>>1889588
wire nut + jb weld master race

[Anonymous No.1890111]

>>1889972
I use these. It’s easy to use, AND easy to un-do when your connection is temporary.

[Anonymous No.1890166]

>>1890085
>You do realize that solder joints are against code
Everyone says this, but nobody can show an exact place where it says that it is not allowed.
>and you must use a wire nut or other mechanical connection right?
Twisting wire provides sufficient mechanical resistance.
>Solder joints fail from thermal cycling
How often does your house get to... um... 300 degrees?

Soldering is most reliable and cheapest way to connect wires. No shit. If shit is good for aerospace, shit is good for you.

[Anonymous No.1890298]

>>1890028
If by nonsense you mean pure win, then yes.

[Anonymous No.1890314]

>>1890166
The wire still needs to be mechanically secure, so you could solder, then put a nut on it, or dona lineman splice and solder and tape it up, but you cant just lay the wires together or even twist them and solder them

[Anonymous No.1890321]

>>1889588

Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes, you don't.

[Anonymous No.1890330]

>>1890080
If the wire is that big it will be landed on a block terminal of some kind and secured with a set screw

[Anonymous No.1890337]

>>1890314
Rat-tail splice provides enough mechanical strength, if tail is long enough. But electrical resistance of this joint is complete shit, because copper will get oxidized, 'cuz shit aint squished by spring, thus making shit get hot, which is not ideal, since PVC tape will melt, and old-school fabric tape will catch fire.
Soldering bonds those wires together electrically.
Also, bonus: if you ever get a leak, and water gets inside your junction box, shit will be all-right, since solder is water-tight. Meanwhile wirenut will turn into potential fire hazard. Wire nuts are half-measure, that shouldn't exist in era of Wago.

Only reason nobody solders is that crimps were invented (and I'm not talking about gay shit thin metal ones you can do with pliers, I mean real deal, which required over 9000 tons of pressure), and wirenuts. Nobody wants hot solder on their balls.

[Anonymous No.1890391]

>>1890032
>Push connectors have Far less conductor contact compared to wire nuts
Phew, good job all you have to do is use the appropriately sized connector that ensures you have sufficient conductor contact for the rated load.

I'd say "It's not hard" but then you're a simpleton who thinks twisting two bits of wire together is a good idea.

[Anonymous No.1890409]

>>1889588
if i hire a electrican and he use anything but pic related i send him off. he might be the one installing it but im the one servicing it. everything should be easy to disconnect and service, customers dont like it when i have to turn off the whole system just to replace a small fan or whatever.

[Anonymous No.1890573]

NEC “110.14 (B) Splices. Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use, or by brazing, welding, or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an identified insulating device.

So you can solder connections if you join them mechanically first. Then they must be insultated.

>>1890314
Code says that wire nuts must be installed per manufacturer's instructions. I have never seen any that mentioned solder at all, so soldering and then putting on a wire nut is not allowed.

Most of you don't know shit about electrical yet you argue like you've been in the trades for 30 years lol. Retards.

[Anonymous No.1890574]

>>1890330
Yes. Or crimped and screwed.

[Anonymous No.1890579]

>check wirenut thread
>this nigger is already telling solder is superior
This is superior joint. Aluminium will corrode copper, and then it will get hot and arc-weld itself.

[Anonymous No.1890858]

It blows me away how residential elechickens use these all over the place. In heavy industry you’d get crucified for so much as having them in your tool bag. It’s considered unacceptable to use compression buttsplices as well. If your wire is too short to reach the terminal block you run a new one.

[Anonymous No.1890873]

>>1889588

I have a coffee can full of assorted wire nuts with no "manufacturer's instructions". I s there any way other than trial and error to pick the right size for the job?

[Anonymous No.1890875]

>>1889608
>no tape

Me too. I don't know why people use tape. It just makes a sticky mess when you have to take it apart.

[Anonymous No.1890881]

>>1890873
They are color coded for the number of wires/gauge they can be used on.

[Anonymous No.1890893]

>>1889678

I've used them in cars for years with no problems ever.

[Anonymous No.1890906]

>>1890881
That helps. Thanks. But I suspect all manufacturers don't comply. I have some blacks, for example, and some yellows with variable sized holes.

[Anonymous No.1890951]

>>1890858
I use them frequently in the heavy industry I participate in. They are a bit of a pain in the ass, however, because it's hard to tell when a joint has come loose without taking all the nuts off in the circuit and reseating them.

[Anonymous No.1890953]

>>1890906
I wouldn't trust the blacks, they usually don't work.

[Anonymous No.1890980]

>>1889608
this. just twist and trim the connections b4 putting on the wire nut. why is this even a debate? this topic is useless.

[Anonymous No.1890981]

>>1889972
these are great but they are expensive

[Anonymous No.1890983]

Hydraulic thick nice crimp > Solder > Wago > Poo > Pee > Housefirenut.

[Anonymous No.1890991]

>>1890858
No? I see them all over the place in refineries. Not for 3 phase or control wiring but they are used.

[Anonymous No.1890993]

>>1890953

No, these are black, not Black.

[Anonymous No.1890995]

>>1890951
I dont know why more elechickens dont have a tdr built into their meter in 2020

Bridge taps and high resistance joints and gauge changes are all trivial to locate

[Anonymous No.1891018]

>>1890082
According to the directions, you're not supposed to twist them first. You place them parallel and screw on the wire nut.

[Anonymous No.1891028]

>>1890409
Obviously you’re not an electrician so why would anyone care about your opinion? Residential work pays crap anyway

[Anonymous No.1891031]

>>1890858
>residential
> heavy industry
Guess who has the bigger budget.

[Anonymous No.1891040]

>>1891018
>According to the directions, you're not supposed to twist them first
Most of them either don't mention it or say you can do either.
An admonition against twisting is something I've not seen.
Theoretically, twisting the connector on should also twist the wires together, but its safer to pretwist to ensure a good connection.

[Anonymous No.1891053]

>>1891040
I work in commercial as an apprentice and they not only teach us in school that you should pretwist but all the licensed guys I work with in the field, from bosses down to new journeymen all think that if you don’t pretwist you’re a hack who should be the first to be laid off during lean times. Not pretwisting is fine for a temporary installation, like when you need the lights in a room but you can’t put the switches in the wall yet because the sheetrockers haven’t textured and mudded, or if you’re testing.

[Anonymous No.1891065]

>>1891053
twisting can result in strands breaking though unless your soldering you can fix this but crimp or mechanical connection with broken strands is a BIG no-no.

[Anonymous No.1891069]

>>1891065
im not sure you're clear on what's being spoken about.

[Anonymous No.1891113]

>>1891018
This had caused a lot of accidents. I've seen literal glowirenut cus previous electrician decided that twisting is not necessary.

[Anonymous No.1891121]

>>1891065
Stranded wire in households is typically only encountered with appliances or fixtures(or old as shit wire where that won't be the biggest headache). It's better to crimp and screw or terminate at a block with a set screw but you can safely twist and nut stranded to solid. I don't personally like to do it but it does work, but if there are multiple wires being connected I'd prefer to pigtail stranded to a single solid wire then twist the other end to the other wires. A lot of people just don't know how to use wire nuts. If you can pull a wire and the connection moves you did it wrong. If the nut doesn't tighten up or you can pull a wire out you did it wrong.

[Anonymous No.1891125]

>>1891065
>twisting
>stranded wire
You’ve never done electrical work before

[Anonymous No.1891153]

>>1890881
what in the fuck? my yellows fit 3 14s easy i can fit ay least 4 12s into a red where is this garbage from
my black cap copper threads can fit 8 12s if your twist is tight
>>1890579
your twist is garbage

[Anonymous No.1891155]

>>1891065
bro ur literally retarted
and yea n SOLID CORE WIRE twisting actually OVER TWISTING can fuck your shit
BUT
>twisting strand
lmao

[Anonymous No.1891161]

>>1891153
Not that anon but looks like he posted some Harry homeowner wirenuts. Maybe you’re talking about the winged bois like what Ideal sells and makes

[Anonymous No.1891174]

>>1890082
>at which point why not just solder the shit and make sure shit aint going anywhere.
You're a fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.1891175]

I love wirenuts, they are fun to use, come in cool olors and work nice/fine. Shits all over electric tape.

[Anonymous No.1891188]

>>1890995
Because we are cheapskates and receive basically no money from the companies to upgrade equipment. Out of all the companies in the local area, I know of one who provides reimbursement on a regular basis for tool purchasing, and that's only for a specialized group inside the company. The vast majority of guys are just using the stuff they bought back in school because they don't understand the new stuff well enough to utilize it/they don't see the need to invest.

[Anonymous No.1891192]

>>1891175
What are you using the electrical tape for?

[Anonymous No.1891195]

>>1891192

I only use it to patch damaged cables/cords, I've seen shit in the field were asshole techs use it to seal twisted wires.

[Anonymous No.1891207]

>>1891195
Patch the insulation or reconnect the wires?

[Anonymous No.1891224]

>>1891207

First. If I'm ever connecting wires, I'm using a nut, a butt connector or one of those heat gun wraps. Nuts are underrated, they actually hold well in pretty much all applications if installed correctly, from my experience.

[Anonymous No.1891227]

for me, it's screw connectors.

[Anonymous No.1891243]

>>1891153
>where is this garbage from
It's the typical no-name wirenuts they have at hardware/ big box stores.
Ideal's is pic related.

[Anonymous No.1891244]

>>1890953
Carlos!

[Anonymous No.1891270]

>>1890409
wagos are too fucking expensive

wingnuts are just as easy to disconnect and service

[Anonymous No.1891284]

>>1891270
Not if you solder them :^)

[Anonymous No.1891285]

>>1891270
Soldering is MASTER RACE

[Anonymous No.1891287]

>>1891174
That is what I did in my house expansion. Torch, rosin core solder, nice.

[Anonymous No.1891289]

Electrician here, it's fucking 120/240v, baby tier shit, might as well be 12v. Do whatever the fuck you want, all these methods are perfectly suitable for any standard environments.

[Anonymous No.1891293]

>when you need to take apart a residential join to troubleshoot circuits and some dickhead has soldered all that shit together because he got an A grade dose of autism at birth

[Anonymous No.1891316]

>>1891289

>tfw there's a larping electrician call everyone baby and electchicken to make himself feel better

[Anonymous No.1891340]

>>1891243

Is there any information on the gauge of the spring opening vs wire capacity? If so, perhaps you could use drill bits to size/sort them.

[Anonymous No.1891345]

>>1890298
no, I mean a waste of time in most situations

[Anonymous No.1891365]

>>1891227
>butt connector
I like.

[Anonymous No.1891368]

>>1889588
I never thought about the connecting surface between the two wires before. in my mind once they were touching, everything was perfect.

[Anonymous No.1891411]

>>1891028
commercial and industrial refrigeration systems, when we hire in a braindead wiremonkey to connect our equpment you bet your ass he has to do as i tell him.

[Anonymous No.1893052]

>>1890858
>compression buttsplices
I can see why they wouldn't want these around. I recently was hired to troubleshoot some agricultural automation machines and I nearly walked away from the job because the number of intermittent problems was too high. I was confident i would damage my reputation by leaving them with a big bill and a machine that was still non-functional. Turns out most of the buttsplice connectors had failed. So i replaced them with my own shitty buttsplices and am now waiting for them to fail so they call me up again. ez money.

[Anonymous No.1893617]

>>1889972
These are expensive, but so worth it, esp. when you have more than two wires to twist.

[Anonymous No.1893656]

>>1891411
Nice fantasy LARP but you’re not an engineer or a PM. You’re just full of hot air, like every other alcoholic burnout tinner

[Anonymous No.1893703]

>>1890032
>Push connectors have Far less conductor contact compared to wire nuts means they produce an inferior connection.

Only good for when you have 40+ Hihats or a few dozen 2'x4' lay in fixtures you need to install in a timely manner.

[Anonymous No.1893704]

>>1890166
>Soldering is most reliable and cheapest way to connect wires. No shit. If shit is good for aerospace, shit is good for you.

t. not an electrician

[Anonymous No.1893705]

>>1891293
this

[Anonymous No.1893712]

>>1890166
Aerospace also use crimp connectors and crimped Amphenol and Cannon plug pins as they're more vibration resistant then soldered connects (former avionics tech here). It's about the quality of the work more than the hardware for low amp connections. The big stuff gets hot and requires mechanical connectors, for example welding cable.

[C¤©¤ℕυͳ !!ejZnhfeYlll No.1893916]

Permanent. Sometimes I use blocks if I'm feeling fancy

[Anonymous No.1893922]

Wire nuts are standard in industrial applications. Lots of the gimmicky stuff is geared to residential or light commercial. The right nut with the right technique is the standard for 480V.

[Anonymous No.1894185]

>>1890409
You’re full of shit.

[Anonymous No.1894251]

>>1890881
>that filename
>that watermark
>visibly low quality
not my first choice for electrical guidance

[Anonymous No.1894259]

>>1891368
>>1890032
because in the grand scheme of loop impedance and short circuit current, it does not matter if contact resistance is 1mOhm or 10mOhm
Its not like you have 100 splices between mcb and fixture. ontop residential circuits are seldom >16A, at least in Europe where they are common

[Anonymous No.1894260]

>>1890981
>>1893617
>>1891270
>wagos are too fucking expensive
what 3rd world shithole do you live in where 10 cents a piece is expensive?

[Anonymous No.1894833]

>>1890409
I like these things so much.

[Anonymous No.1894856]

>>1889588
more nuts make cable stronger

[Anonymous No.1894858]

>>1890579
>do u even?
>NASA certified

[Anonymous No.1894860]

>>1894858
>using solid core wire

[Anonymous No.1894861]

>>1894259
What is the practical ramification of having say a 12 gauge wire, with a fraction of that for contact? I struggle with electrical concepts, so using the whole water metaphor, it would be like having a giant hose with a very tiny nozzle at the end.

does this mean not enough electricity gets to the appliance?

Does it mean the resistance of that area goes up, since the same amount of electricity is getting shoved through no matter how much resistance there is?

Does it mean that point will get extremely hot and start a fire?

[Anonymous No.1894864]

>>1894860
>not using solid core

[Anonymous No.1894927]

>>1894858
Just bent an acid brush to have a flat end, and cut a v shaped groove in it. The hollow core of the acid brush is the perfect size to fit over an old soldering iron.

Made my own hot wire stripper

[Anonymous No.1894960]

Do people still use wire nuts for real? In Norway this hasn't been used in 20 years. I don't know a single electrician that use anything else than wago, the new slim type in pic related. They are superiour and give each wire their seperate springload. They cost about $0.5 a pop, but it's worth it as they are much faster to use and you are sure the connection is good, and they take up less room. You'll get them for about $0.3 if your an electrician.

[Anonymous No.1894964]

>>1894960
I have never seen wire nuts in Germany but we still use screw terminals a lot.

[Anonymous No.1894968]

>>1894964
>still use screw terminals a lot.
Even in small gauge wires like 1.5, 2.5 and 4mm?
It is still used here aswell, but mostly in larger gauges. Many junction boxes come with screw terminals, but most people remove them as they are removeable and use wago instead.

[Anonymous No.1894970]

>>1894964
another great thing about those wagos is that you don't need to crimp fine stranded wires which you have to do if you use screw terminals.

[Anonymous No.1894974]

>>1894968
Light fixtures are the main use of screw terminals and I believe their gauge is 0.75mm

[Anonymous No.1895193]

>>1894861
the water analogy is shit as electricity does not behave like water.
contact area is not as important as you might think, what matters is measured resistance
for example, 12 gauge has 0.5 ohm resistance per 100m, a spring connector like wago has worst cast 0,01ohm per splice, more likely 1/3 or 1/10 (thats so small a normal meter cannot measure this accurately)
>does this mean not enough electricity gets to the appliance?
were talking here 0.1V voltage drop per splice, thats too small to notice
Does it mean the resistance of that area goes >up, since the same amount of electricity is getting shoved through no matter how much resistance there is?
i do not understand what your asking here
>Does it mean that point will get extremely hot and start a fire?
no. For the connector to start a fire you'd have to short out the wire directly behind it

[Anonymous No.1895210]

>>1889588
Permanent, I use boxes for high volt in attics though.
>>1889608
Tape should be banned, I don't want to spend 15 minutes ripping it apart because you fucked up.