/diy/ - Do It Yourself

[Anonymous No.183816]

SO,

I remember there being a thread on here not too long ago about someone being worried about the coming solar maximum and building a faraday cage to protect computers.

Now, most people probably don't have a place to even put a computer in a faraday cage, nor would they likely get the proper (read: expensive) parts to build a good cage.

I was talking about this with a friend, and the following idea was presented: would a simple solution for safely storing critical data on the end-user level be to simply put it on solid state storage (like an SD card), or would that get ruined in the event of some sort of massive solar flare?

[Anonymous No.183830]

Bump for interest (and paranoia)

[Anonymous No.183831]

>>183816

You know that solid metal shell your computer components are sitting in?

Guess why the FCC requires that it be a full metal enclosure.

[Anonymous No.183841]

>>183831
Right, but if that were sufficient, why would some businesses put their systems into large faraday cages? Logic suggests the case may be sufficient for everyday protection, but what about in the event of unusually high EM?

[Anonymous No.183845]

>>183816
>why would some businesses put their systems into large faraday cages

Because somebody was a very good salesman.

An EMI field your computer chassis can't handle would probably kill you.

[Anonymous No.183847]

A chassis is a pretty good faraday cage in itself.

If you're really paranoid you could probably slam a metal rod into the ground and connect it to your chassis with a piece of wire.. Just make sure it's not prone to get hit by thunder.

[Anonymous No.183848]

Store your data on a DVD.
If you want them to last forever, use some non oxiding DVDs.
End of story.

[Anonymous No.183902]

>>183848

http://millenniata.com/m-disc/

[Anonymous No.183921]

>>183816
Bank safety deposit box should be good enough. Items that are not powered at the time of the event should be fine up to a certain point. Also, bank security boxes are metal which connects directly to support beams and such that should eventually lead to the ground through the foundation via cement and rebar. So, it should be grounded even though they are most likely not purposely grounded.

[Anonymous No.183926]

>>183848
HDD, not DVD, they don't die as quickly as DVDs do in storage, even comparing to the the M-discs. This is because the glue that binds the discs together is the major failing point, not just the dyes used to write on them in normal discs. HDD platters, are already in sealed containers.

both need to be stored in faraday cages though. A large enough solar flare can fry a DVD like it was in a microwave albeit on a far smaller scale obviously.

[Anonymous No.183927]

>>183926
If there was a solar flare strong enough to microwave your DVDs, that'd be the least of your concerns.
I'd be worrying more about putting my face back together, and maybe reassembling my car.

[Anonymous No.183929]

If a solar flare strong enough to wipe your data from your hard drive hits the Earth, you won't need to worry about your data, because you'll be dead.

[Anonymous No.183936]

>>183929
It's more about powered equipment and equipment hooked to the standard electrical grid. Those can be fried with low level solar flares.

This EMP device is actually extremely low powered when compared to what a moderate solar flare can do,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0odJKYTzXg8

What we receive on a normal basis is little to no real solar flare activity on the cosmic scale. It looks impressive, but it is not.

[Anonymous No.183942]

>>183845
>>183927
>>183929

This. Paranoid people overestimate the size of the problem. They're the kind of people who thinks a pole shift will blow up the planet.

[Anonymous No.183943]

>>183942
I saw some show where a guy had built an entire bomb shelter to protect himself from the devastation of a pole shift.

Why is it so hard for people to do simple research?

[Anonymous No.183947]

>>183845
Incorrect. It's being connected to the power grid that would kill the machine at far lower power an EMI field. It does not need to get past your PC chassis because it has a direct line into it from the wall.

[Anonymous No.183949]

>>183947

Do you live in some third world country that does not have fuses or circuit breakers? I suggest you get some, because that's exactly the sort of thing they stop.

[Anonymous No.183950]

>>183943
Wikipedia on the subject:

"The cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis suggests that there have been geologically rapid shifts in the relative positions of the modern-day geographic locations of the poles and the axis of rotation of the Earth, creating calamities such as floods and tectonic events.

No form of the hypothesis is accepted amongst the general scientific community."

Took me 15 seconds.

>>183947
This depends on a lot of things, such as your power grid, and what's connected in between it and your computer. I happen to have a UPS, which could potentially die, but my computer would most likely still be fine.

[Anonymous No.183953]

>>183943
>Why is it so hard for people to do simple research?

Pretty hard evidently. We've already had devastating solar flares wipe out our technology before. Luckily, we had only telegraph technology at the time and we were not dependent on it like we are with today's technology. And, today's tech is far more sensitive to EMI fields. Plus, an EMI field caused by a solar flare can easily wipe out your electronics without beginning to harm you in the slightest.

Read up on this stuff before spouting your ignorance.

>>183949
No, they do not stop them. I own a PC repair business. I had to replace nealy all the PSUs in the local town on long year because of a lightning strike on the local power substation. None of the breakers tripped, none of the fuses blew. The level of sensitivity of modern PCs is very high. You need very specialized equipment to protect your stuff from these things it is expensive.

[Anonymous No.183955]

>>183950
A UPS won't protect against that unless it has been designed specifically for it. those start at around $4,000USD price range.

[Anonymous No.183956]

>>183947
>>183953

I don't see how a faraday cage would protect your equipment either in that instance. In either case your machine must be unplugged to stop that.

[Anonymous No.183957]

>>183953
Read the post before spouting crap, good sir. I was talking about the "cataclysmic polar shift" some people think is going to happen.

[Anonymous No.183959]

>>183957
* "pole shift", not "polar".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_shift

[Anonymous No.183960]

>>183956
>In either case your machine must be unplugged to stop that.

100% Correct. You can not have any lines going into the Faraday cage, otherwise you compromise it completely. Systems the seek get around this are very expensive because they are converting the incoming interferences into other forms of energy. They try to sponge it up before it gets to the connected device and disconnect it before it reaches a critical point of no return inside the protection circuitry.

>>183957
I'm staying on subject, you are not.

[Anonymous No.183961]

>>183953
>the telegraph argument
>AGAIN

Fuck's sake. The only reason that zapped some telegraph equipment (it didn't wipe out the telegraph system) is because the network primarily ran off dry cells and nothing was grounded or hardened, while the telegraph lines acted as giant antennas. Modern comm and power distribution lines & equipment are hardened against even what class-X flares can throw at us. Satellites close up and shut down so they aren't harmed either, despite being exposed right out there in space.

[Anonymous No.183962]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_flare#Examples_of_large_solar_flares..

The most powerful flare ever observed was the first one to be observed, on September 1, 1859, and was reported by British astronomer Richard Carrington and independently by an observer named Richard Hodgson. The event is named the Solar storm of 1859, or the "Carrington event". The flare was visible to a naked-eye (in white light), and produced stunning auroras down to tropical latitudes such as Cuba or Hawaii, and set telegraph systems on fire.[11] The flare left a trace in Greenland ice in the form of nitrates and beryllium-10, which allow its strength to be measured today (New Scientist, 2005). Cliver & Salvgaard (2004) reconstructed the effects of this flare and compared with other events of the last 150 years. In their words: While the 1859 event has close rivals or superiors in each of the above categories of space weather activity, it is the only documented event of the last ∼150 years that appears at or near the top of all of the lists.

[Anonymous No.183963]

>>183960
>I'm staying on subject, you are not.

[Anonymous No.183964]

>>183962


In modern times, the largest solar flare measured with instruments occurred on November 4, 2003. This event saturated the GOES detectors, and because of this its classification is only approximate. Initially, extrapolating the GOES curve, it was pegged at X28.[12] Later analysis of the ionospheric effects suggested increasing this estimate to X45.[13] This event produced the first clear evidence of a new spectral component above 100 GHz.[14] Other large solar flares also occurred on April 2, 2001 (X20),[15] October 28, 2003 (X17.2 & X10),[16] September 7, 2005 (X17),[15] February 17, 2011 (X2),[17][18][19] August 9, 2011 (X6.9)[7][20] and March 6, 2012 (X5.4).[21] In 1989, during solar cycle 22 two large flares occurred on March 6 (X15) (see: March 1989 geomagnetic storm) and August 16 (X20) causing disruptions in electric grids and computer systems.[22]

[Anonymous No.183965]

>>183961
This is a strawman argument and an ignorant one.

This will not protect your PCs. You can enjoy buying new ones.

[Anonymous No.183967]

>>183965

It has protected my computer equipment from every high-level X class flare in the past twenty years. Take your pointless fearmongering to /x/ or something.

[Anonymous No.183970]

>>183967
This.
Do some fucking research before you start spreading your dumbass FUD.

[Anonymous No.183971]

>>183967
Those are normal flares and not even worth mentioning since they happen all the time. You will most likely die of old age before anything big really happens.

[Anonymous No.183973]

>>183971
>normal flares

Here's a mindfuck for you: Those huge X-class flares that everyone freaks out about happen on a monthly basis. We get hit with disruptively powerful ones several times per year.

Our reliance on technology requires us to be ready for them, and so we are.

Fucking hell, every goddamn month with this shit. It's more regular than my wife.

[Anonymous No.183976]

>>183973
I'm not the one making standard x-class flares out to be something they are not. However, the other anon is. I'm saying that your PC will not be protected against a strong solar flare. Those are not strong solar flares, they are normal ones.

[Anonymous No.183978]

>>183971
>>183973
> normal flares
> mfw

What >>183973 says is correct. An extreme solar maximum might mean that a satellite breaks down, or something silly like that. It's not going to affect anyone down here notably, and it's definitely no reason to worry. Unless you happen to own that satellite.

[Anonymous No.183979]

>>183978
That's not an extreme solar flare though.

You are devolving into debasement while your "argument" dissolves. You can keep trolling all your want, I've given you my professional opinion (because I work in the field with this sort of thing) and you reply with nothing but baseless ignorance. I'm out.

[Anonymous No.183984]

>>183979
> I work in the field with this sort of thing
You work as what exactly? Because I believe you're an unemployed, fear mongering basement dweller.

I'm not trolling, I'm just ridiculing you and your lowly FUD. Do you believe in the 2012 apocalypse as well? Hell, maybe you even believe in the pole shift thing?

[Anonymous No.183986]

>>183979
Oh, and your professional opinion isn't worth shit if you're not backing it up with hard facts.

[Anonymous No.183988]

OP here.

My favorite part is that, thus far, nobody has actually answered the question: would an SD card be safe from an EM that would compromise more standard methods of data storage, such as on a hard drive?

[Anonymous No.183989]

>>183988
Yes, an SD card should be quite safe, and to be even safer you can put it in a metal box, that would effectively act as a faraday cage.

It's in the thread, btw.

[Anonymous No.183994]

>>183989
Must've missed it. I skimmed the thread, and then did a search for SD card, then just SD, but didn't see anything.

[Anonymous No.184016]

People have mentioned breakers and fuses, but what about surge protectors?

[Anonymous No.184030]

>>183816
If it's so bad that we'll need faraday cages to protect our electronics, then your electronics are the least of your worries. Worry more about the collapse of civilization and/or deaths from radiation poisoning.

[Anonymous No.184079]

>>183988
It's implied through explanation of the type of devices that would be harmed and not harmed and at what states they'd be harmed and not harmed, etc.

>>184016
One like in your pic are literally a laughing joke.

>>184030
Nope.jpg read thread.

[Anonymous No.184297]

>>183994
It was implied. Computers and other devices disconnected from the main grid, and inside faraday cages are perfectly secure, which includes SD cards.

[Anonymous No.184383]

http://faraday-bags.com/index.php/blackholefaradaybags.html lol these guys sure are hustling.

I'd rather do this for larger items http://preparednesspro.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/emp-101-part-iv-faraday-cage/

and get one of these lil guys for a raspberry pi or something. http://www.endtimesreport.com/faraday_cages.html

[Anonymous No.184408]

I'm an engineer designing the microchips you get in your phones and nav systems. This is the new y2k scare. All will be fine, but some will invest loadsofmoney because of biased research funded by corporations who build such 'preventive' equipment. None of your gear will burn, and the grid will not shatter either.

I'd worry much more about high-orbit equipment.

[Anonymous No.184411]

>>184383
Jeeze, those won't even work.

>>184408
>lying on the internet

lol

[Anonymous No.184443]

i hope that EMP hits you in the tinfoil hat, op.
this whole solar pulse shit is absolutely retarded and not based on any real research.
it's just fear mongering spread by people trying to make a quick buck off of easily fooled retards.

[Anonymous No.184534]

>>184443
And if you actually read my post without that heavy cynicism you apparently have, it wasn't "OH GOD WHAT DO I TO DO SAVE MY DATA FROM THE END OF THE WORLD" which you are implying it was with your tin foil hat comment (it's aluminum, faggot), but rather "would solid state storage be less susceptible to such a thing?"

Pic related, if you still don't get it.

[Anonymous No.184602]

You want to protect your digital shit from an EMP?
Get an old microwave and store your shit in it.

[Anonymous No.184815]

>>184602
True Story

[Anonymous No.184873]

Teach me about surge protectors. I've got those typical office power strips that you can buy in any electronics retail store. No UPS option. Probably nothing more than a multi-plugged extension cord. What *should* I be doing to protect my home theater and PC environment from the grid?

[Anonymous No.184876]

>>183816
Faraday cages disrupt data transmissions. It wouldn't do shit against an EMP or solar maximus.

[Anonymous No.184878]

>>183816

A Faraday cage isn't really that hard to make if you're that paranoid op.


If you own aluminum foil and know basic geometry...you can probably make a Faraday cage.

[Anonymous No.184881]

>>184878

"Basic geometry", as in, he's capable of wrapping shit in foil without leaving gaps.

Maybe he should start from his own head.

[Anonymous No.184887]

>>184876

Faraday cages block electromagnetic radiation. Radiowaves, like the ones used for wifi, FM, AM, cell phones, UHF, VHF, satellite shit, GPS, etc. Those are your communication frequencies.

An EMP is a sudden spike in electromagnetic radiation. A quick-powerful burst. Guess what? The cage blocks that too since it's EM radiation.

How well it protects your electronics is up to you. Tinfoil (aluminum foil) is shit. It's fine for light shit like RFID and maybe cell phone signals in some cases, but not enough for a pulse.

The best material is grounded solid metal. Though you can also use metal meshes of various sizes. The smaller the mesh, the better it will protect your shit.

[Anonymous No.184898]

>>using solid state devices to be EMP proof.

[Anonymous No.184903]

What about automating transfer to the sd card? This is the first thing I think of:

Raspberry pi + battery + solar panel within Faraday cage, connected to the main system by optical cable. A timer would switch on the pi every few hours, then the pi would transfer and then switch itself off.

Ideally someone would make a low power file server that attaches to the end of a fibreoptic cable. It should be efficient enough to work off a supercap and small solar cell.

[Anonymous No.184934]

>>184887
Also useful for shoplifting.


Just saiyan'

[Anonymous No.184941]

how to avoid all problems during a nasty solar emission
1) detect it several days in advance (easy)
2) unplug all major power lines from sub stations, this is because long power lines act as massive radio antennas, and will energize far beyond normal during a solar event. this can easily overwhelm substations and destroy equipment, which takes months to replace. unplugging major lines isn't unreasonable and can be done within a few dozen hours across the country
3) avoid solar storm damage

protip; solar storm's are "long and loud". they don't damage small electronics like phones since the instantaneous energy from the solar emission isn't very much. their circuits easily dissipate the incoming energy before it racks up. power lines get fucked though since their effective radio surface area is huge

an enemy EMP from a high altitude nuclear weapon will do nothing to the power lines since it's over so fast, but it'll FUCK electronics due to the immense instantaneous energy output

[Anonymous No.185060]

>>184881
>>184878
confirmed for not reading shit.

[Anonymous No.185078]

An SD card should be fine exposed to most EM fields, however I'd be slightly concerned about the X-Ray and high EM waves. You can get SD card holder designed for air travel that are shielded to protect cards from standard X-Ray scanners, that'd be a good start.

>>183936

Umm... It's fairly low powered alright, it doesn't even affect the recording equipment at a couple hundred feet. That and it takes a lot of power to even make it work. God I hate when shows talk about how an EMP weapon could take out America or Russia or China or some rather large land area....and in theory so could a damn neutron bomb. Building a working weapon that can be delivered to 300 miles altitude and generate a single pulse of that magnitude is extremely hard. (In reality it's probably like the Tsar bomb, it could be done, but it'd be so impractical no one would ever build it.)

Considering things like the Z Machine at Sandia National Laboratories are capable of producing a discharge of 70 million amperes and that doesn't seem to destroy near by towns then we have a ways to go before destroying an entire continent...

[Anonymous No.185082]

>>183841
Just wanted to point out, most businesses don't put their servers and computers in an expensive faraday cage, the cage they put their servers and the like in is a security cage, to prevent people from accessing the equipment, almost no computer company gives a fuck about solar flares and does not prepare for this.