/diy/ - Do It Yourself

[Anonymous No.1749156]

Do they have temperature feedback?

If I put a huge pot of hot soup, will it output cold at a faster rate until it gets back to 37 F? Or will it continue at the same rate?

And if yes, when did feedback become a thing in fridges?

[Anonymous No.1749166]

>>1749156
>Do they have temperature feedback?

Exactly what do you think a thermostat even does?

[Anonymous No.1749179]

>>1749166
It serves as the capital of the Robo-Hungarian Empire, of course.

[Anonymous No.1749228]

>>1749156
Those freezer on top models have a thermostat in the refrigerator compartment only. The soup would cause the temperature to rise kicking on the compressor to run until the fridge was at the set temp.

[Anonymous No.1750149]

>>1749156
>If I put a huge pot of hot soup
You will kill the compressor, because cooling 3-5 liters of hot water is hard.

Now, it depends on your fridge. Old classical fridges have only two modes: full retard power and no power. So called "on-off" in air conditioner world. It is all fine, but temperature inside jumps, and compressor is loud.
Newer fridges have variable power, so called "Inverter" or "VRF", compressor sets its speed according to the load. Temperature is more stable and compressor is quieter.
As for reliablitiy, old system has only three electrical components: compressor, capacitor/start relay, thermal relay.
Newer have smart board and shit, computer that measures, and then a computer that generates three phase AC for compressor. Way more complicated, and way more unreliable.

[Anonymous No.1750161]

>>1750149
Unlikely to kill the compressor,

[Anonymous No.1750350]

No. Barely anything with a heat pump will have "variable rate" or whatever the fuck you call it.

They're pretty dumb systems, at most a PID thermostat acting as an On/Off switch

[Anonymous No.1750353]

>>1750161
Think about this, compresor on fridges is not designed to run for long periods of time, and putting hot pot will make it run for long time.
I know people that have killed fridge compressors by overfilling freezer with room temperature meat.

[Anonymous No.1750356]

>>1749156
It will continue at the same rate. The heat pump has a simple on/off state. They're turned on when the air temperature within the fridge is above some level.

>>1749166
The thermostats in our homes work the same way. If the furnace is already on turning up the thermostat isn't going to warm the house any faster. It just sets the temperature where the furnace turns off.

[Anonymous No.1750360]

>>1750356
>the thermostat isn't going to warm the house any faster.

He asked if a fridge has "temperature feedback". Any sort of signal that controls a process based on its measured effect is, by definition, "feedback". I was just being glib about it.

[Anonymous No.1750446]

>>1750353
Most stress on compressors comes from stopping and starting. The longer they run the better, the newer linear and vcc compressors are designed to run 90% of the time vs older units. And while the linear compressors are significantly different than traditional designs the vcc compressors are literally the same valve and piston assembly only instead of a single phase motor they run off of a three phase motor with an inverted so that they can control the speed.


Not sure what your friends did but in general putting a hot pot in a fridge is unlikely to damage it.

[Anonymous No.1750648]

>>1750446
>Most stress on compressors comes from stopping and starting.
Nope. It is prolonged operation that always kills them.
You just don't know how many people had killed fridge compressors by putting something hot inside, not closing door... And built-in overheat protection rarely does anything about it.
This is the reason why gas leaks kills the compressors, not necessarily air and moisture.
>The longer they run the better, the newer linear and vcc compressors are designed to run 90% of the time vs older units.
Those new inverter units tend to burn compressors, especially early ones, due to insufficient oiling inside. Being in third world, I had disassembled couple of them, and they were seized, but unlike classic ones, they had all windings not burned (because board probably noticed increase in current or something).
>Not sure what your friends did but in general putting a hot pot in a fridge is unlikely to damage it.
It can damage.
I don't know, maybe american fridges have some super powerful compressors that are designed to run continuously (like in Windows AC, which can run 100% for days), but in europoor fridge you have 100W (and now even 50W) compressor that absolutely hates running for long periods of time.

[Anonymous No.1750656]

>>1750648
I rarel see someone so confident about being wrong

[Anonymous No.1750669]

>>1750656
I don't know, I just say what I've seen.
I mean, if compressor has brown wires and yet it moves freely, it definitely overheated, because they are designed with duty-cycle (25%-50%) in mind. The old ones, obviously, not modern junk with inverter drive.
Also, I think american fridges have TXV in them, while europoor have capillary tube.

[Anonymous No.1750739]

>>1750353
If you bought a freezer which can't 100% duty cycle for a day, you bought a piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.1750771]

>>1749156
new ones are PID controlled. it will output max cold if its far from its setpoint and output less cold as it gets closer to setpoint.
Old fridges just run full until it hits setpoint+hysteresis

[Anonymous No.1750799]

>>1749156
almost all modern home refrigerators cool the refrigerator by cycling cold air from the freezer in to the fridge and then back to the freezer. They do not react to warm temperatures by circulating more or less. They can take up to 24 hours to recover from large masses of warm foods placed in them. The way to cool soup is the way restaurants do it. place the pot in an ICE bath to get the temperature down faster THEN place in the fridge.

[Anonymous No.1750829]

>>1750799
>by cycling cold air from the freezer in to the fridge and then back to the freezer

You are half way correct, typical for this board. The air does not go back, or it would thaw the freezer. Think next time before post.

[Anonymous No.1750872]

>>1750669
>>1750739
I have checked real quick. Apparently, american fridges are designed to run 99% of the time, while old european decided to make it run 25-50% of the time. And what is really interesting, american side-by-side fridges consume 700W, my mini split consumes less, lol.

[Anonymous No.1750875]

>>1750353
Uh yeah, no

[Anonymous No.1750878]

>>1750648
>You just don't know how many people had killed fridge compressors by putting something hot inside, not closing door... And built-in overheat protection rarely does anything about it.
This is the reason why gas leaks kills the compressors, not necessarily air and moisture
Holy fuck dude. i haven’t seen more clueless post on here in a long time.

[Anonymous No.1750889]

>>1750829
stand by for your correction moron.

[Anonymous No.1750891]

>>1750829
You can't force the air from the freezer into a sealed box that the fridge is without a return.

[Anonymous No.1750893]

>>1750829
from the manual for my Kenmore fridge.
Think before you post IDIOT!

[Anonymous No.1750895]

think before you post

[Anonymous No.1750897]

>>1750829
waiting on an apology

[Anonymous No.1750898]

>>1750799

Higher model fridges can have 2 evaporators, one for the fridge and one for the freezer. No air passing between the cabinets. Though for the less expensive "simple" fridges you're correct.

[Anonymous No.1750900]

>>1750878
Think about this.
>R-12, super stable gas, and mineral oil. So no acid meme.
>Evaporator pressure is higher than atmospheric
So, there is no way water or air can get inside, unless it is completely empty. But all R-12 fridges with burned compressor (coils, that had hard time staring, and those I cut apart had real black windings). Mechanics obviously still work, because oil is still there.
So, there are two possibilities, either insufficient cooling from leaked gas, which is possible, but thing is, those fridges still cool... Or increased 100% duty-cycle.
>>1750895
Fridges we have here are different. You have real evaporator in freezer (superheated liquid freon), and sorta evaporator in fridge (cool gaseous freon inside). And thermal relay thing is attached to the fridge in many cases.

[Anonymous No.1750901]

>>1750829
>You are half way correct, typical for this board. The air does not go back, or it would thaw the freezer. Think next time before post.
I bet you feel really stupid?

[Anonymous No.1750902]

>>1750900
>Fridges we have here are different
no they aren't Post manufacturer and model numbers.

[Anonymous No.1750903]

>>1750900
>But all R-12 fridges with burned compressor (coils, that had hard time staring, and those I cut apart had real black windings).
Had gas inside*.

[Anonymous No.1750904]

>>1750900
you really don't know what you are talking about?

[Anonymous No.1750908]

>>1750902
OКA-6M. For example.
Literally any cheap fridge with one compressor, and freezer. You can't adjust temperature separately, so colder is your freezer, colder is fridge.
>>1750904
You don't know superior 1960 european technology.

[Anonymous No.1750909]

>>1750904
>>1750900
I though a little bit, now it makes sense why hot kills fridges. Since it has gaseous freon in fridge part, it heats up real fast, since it doesn't carry much cold. This hot freon does fuck all at cooling a compressor. Combine that with 100% duty cycle, and you gotta replace the compressor.

[Anonymous No.1750913]

>>1750908
>You don't know superior 1960 european technology.
actually I do and 1960's technology is just putting the freezer in the refrigerator and the cold air just drops down. That is an old style fridge. hardly "superior"

>>1750909
your theory of modern refrigeration is wrong I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are either using google translate or something else and ALL of your posts are gibberish because of it.

[Anonymous No.1750914]

>>1750900
Only way its short cycling(I think what youre referring to as duty cycling) due to a leak will be on low pressure, an average resi fridge does not have a low pressure switch. The black you see on the windings is carbon from electrical arcing

[Anonymous No.1750916]

>>1750908
>OКA-6M
can't find anything on this.

[Anonymous No.1750917]

>>1750908
>OКA-6M. For example.
Wait, this one is basically single-door fridge. So it has no secondary evaporator.
So, any Atlant that is classical full frost, and with separate door for freezer.
>>1750913
Then 1980. I don't know when they started doing this.
>>1750914
Nope, they don't have low pressure switch. Only thermal relay.
>>1750913
>your theory of modern refrigeration is wrong I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are either using google translate or something else and ALL of your posts are gibberish because of it.
Lemme draw a pic

[Anonymous No.1750918]

>>1750913
your theory of modern refrigeration is wrong I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are either using google translate or something else and ALL of your posts are gibberish because of it
>this, couldnt agree more

[Anonymous No.1750922]

>>1750917
>So it has no secondary evaporator.
2 door fridges do not have a secondary evaporator (unless you are describing something else).

they work the same as a single door fridge they just circulate air from one side to the other or from top to bottom, or in the case of a bottom freezer from bottom to top.

[Anonymous No.1750923]

>>1750917
Right so no increased duty cycling if its low on gas. Because it’s low on gas and therefore has decreased capacity and actually DECREASES the duty cycle. Low refrigerant will lead to decreased suction cooling tho.

[Anonymous No.1750925]

I'm out of here captcha won't stop and ivan can't use proper grammar to understand him.

[Anonymous No.1750937]

>>1750922
Except they do have. You have iron/steel evaporator in freezer, and sheet evaporator sticked to the wall.
How are you gonna air from lower part to the top part? Fan is expensive and will lower efficiency.
>>1750923
I don't get you. Relay kick is it temperature is higher, than set. So it will try to cool itself, but it would take longer to cool everything. So it will increase cycle.

Also, there is a common issue with such desing, on low gas, freezer still works, and fridge kinda doesn't. Depending on what temperature relay is measuring (some use freezer, some use somewhere in insulation), duty-cycle might become 100%

[Anonymous No.1750941]

>>1750937
https://manualzz.com/doc/6299964/service-information---andi
Here, I found a Liebherr fridge. Apparently it is inverter, but it still uses two evaporators.

[Anonymous No.1751055]

>>1749156
Fridges operate on bang-bang control, they are really stupid

[Anonymous No.1751140]

>>1750872
That's 700W only when the compressor is running. If the doors are closed the compressor is only running 10-20% of the time. Just because it can handle a 99% duty cycle over a day doesn't mean that's normal operation.

[Anonymous No.1751192]

>>1750937
I don't know where you live but freezers in the US don't work like that. They use a fan to circulate air between the freezer and fridge (in almost ALL cases). as I have said repeatedly.

[Anonymous No.1751195]

>>1750353
Don’t be a retard; if the refrigerator is cold, most of the heat from the soup will transfer in 10 minutes. Also, what about when you buy the refrigerator and plug it in for the first time? The compressor runs for 2 hours. Does it die? No. Only moisture and other contaminants kill compressors.

[Anonymous No.1751196]

>>1750941
>https://manualzz.com/doc/6299964/service-information---andi
No wonder you don't understand common refrigerators that's a LUXURY $6000 fridge there are only 3 or 4 distributors in the entire US. Standard fridges ($1000) don't work that way which is why you are wrong in regards to what we have been saying.

99.99999% of fridges in the us work like this:
>>1750895
side by side
over under
under over
they use a fan to circulate air from the freezer to the fridge and back.

thus endeth the lesson.

[Anonymous No.1751201]

>>1750937
https://youtu.be/7NwxMyqUyJw

[Anonymous No.1751261]

>>1750941
Well, that is shit example, since it has separate control for freezer and it is done via valve.
>>1751140
>GE: Newer refrigerators have compressors that are designed to run 80% to 90% of the time.
Do they mean it is variable speed, or they started installing compressors that have no headroom?
>>1751192
This is retarded in my opinion. This means that moisture will get in freezer, and you would need no-frost system to prevent icing, and this is not kosher at all. Modern cheap-o fridges (with no defrost at all) don't even get much frost, because insulation and seals are better.
>>1751195
> Also, what about when you buy the refrigerator and plug it in for the first time?
Fridge is running under stress. Some manufacturers even tell you in manual not to put food first 2-4 hours. (nobody does that though). Pic related.
>>1751196
>>1751201
C'mon, don't force me taking photos of typical third world or european fridge. There is no fan hole, nothing. Freezer is separated from fridge part.

[Anonymous No.1751263]

>>1751261
>Modern cheap-o fridges (with no defrost at all) don't even get much frost, because insulation and seals are better.

humidity doesn't "leak" into freezers, it goes in every time you open the door, genius.

[Anonymous No.1751265]

>>1751263
You don't open freezer as often as fridge. This prevents "FULL Frost™".

[Anonymous No.1751310]

>>1751261
>compressors that are designed to run 80% to 90% of the time.
I got a brand new GE fridge last year and it has a variable speed compressor but it hardly runs 80% of the time. If you leave the door open it'll run full tilt for a bit, but normally it runs softly and really no more often than an older fridge.

[Anonymous No.1751334]

>>1750353
sounds like your mouth is full of room temperature meat, if you know what i mean.

[Anonymous No.1751336]

>>1751334
Well, 25C meat is a little bit too cold, but your mom liked my 34C uncooked piece of meat in the mouth.

[Anonymous No.1751370]

>>1751261
OK fritz it is now absolutely obvious that you are a troll or retarded. We've shown you how fridges work and you keep acting like this one fridge that cost a fortune is the only way they work it's time to go back to the camp.

[Anonymous No.1751384]

>>1751370
Here is real fridge I have. See, capillary tube goes into freezer, and copper goes out. Now. Compressor has aluminium tube on suction. Gee, I wonder how copper becomes aluminium, and why it doesn't get much condensate on it?

[Anonymous No.1751386]

>>1751384
And where is my fan hole? Why that shelf is not ice-cold, compared to the wall?

[Anonymous No.1751388]

>>1751386
This is fridge. Wall is cold. No airflow, pure isobutane cooling. Not sure if it is gas here, or liquid, but compressors don't like liquid, so I guess it is a gas, because it has no receiver to avoid hydro-lock.

[Anonymous No.1751390]

>>1751388
This is condensate collection tray. It gets mold there if you don't clean it, since fridge is chink, and chinks can't design things properly.
Water drips onto a compressor, so it evaporates and cools the compressor.

[Anonymous No.1751396]

>>1751370
>this one fridge that cost a fortune is the only way
My fridge was under $300. Before that I had an inverted LG that failed TWICE under warranty. Fuck inverter, and fuck LG.

[Anonymous No.1751399]

>>1751396
>inverted
inverter

[Anonymous No.1751431]

>>1751384
that's a freezer and you're a troll.

[Anonymous No.1751444]

>>1749156
No, this is why they use ice wands in commercial kitchens.

I can't speak to what you'll do to your fridge, although outside of raising the internal temp and potentially spoiling other food I can't see it breaking anything.

Your soup will be producing a shitload of bacteria while it cools down to 40 degrees. It needs to reach that temp in under four hours. Your can leave it out covered and unheated for two hours before it has to hit the fridge.

If you have gallons to cool, must do it quickly and no ice wands you can spread it out in a baking pan to increase surface area for quicker chilling.

[Anonymous No.1751521]

>>1751431
Freezer part of a fridge, yes.
That copper line goes to top part, and then aluminium (because it is cheaper, and chink save every cent) goes back to compressor
>troll
No, I didn't know US has such weird fridges.
Now I understand why do americans think that fridge consumes a tonn of energy... Because you have inefficient as fuck fridges.
First of all, you still use R134a, which is about as shitty as refrigerants get in terms of efficiency.
Second, that fan system. 9,2 cu ft (aprox 250 liters) fridge consumes 375 kW-h per year, which is too much. European (hell, third world fridge made by Belorussians or Chinks) fridge of similar consumes way less (250 kW-h per year) without any inverter or TXV memes, just finely calibrated capillary and thick foam.
Stop causing global warming you fucks. And stop pretending being green and blaming China.

[Anonymous No.1751645]

No longer replying to ivan since he refuses to accept that there are different types of refrigerators out there and they aren't like his.

[Anonymous No.1751700]

>>1751444
I eat shit that's up to a day old. Not the safest route, but I've done it with rare steak, it tastes better without reheating, and better than being cold.
You're probably right, but a little bacteria won't kill you....usually

[Anonymous No.1751703]

>>1751700
I'm not OP btw, just came to drop my irrelevant experience.

[Anonymous No.1751715]

>>1751396
They’re actually not that bad now that they worked out the bugs. If you half ass the repair it won’t work. Also dude you really don’t know how fridges work.

[Anonymous No.1751716]

>>1751521
European model appliances are generally smaller, you’d have a hard time finding a US french door fridge under 24 cubic feet in size. So they’re gonna consume more energy than a 9 cubic foot fridge... usually you only see those in dorm rooms over here.. they’re probably the standard in Belorus because they can’t find or afford more than 8 cubic feet of food at any one time anyway. also 134A is on a different level pollution wise relative to r 12. China doesn’t give a shit about pumping out 12.

[Anonymous No.1751829]

>>1751715
Thing is, chink fridge I have is more efficient, that that LG inverter.
>>1751716
First of all, belorussians have 650 liter side-by-side meme. It has two compressors, which makes it consume 450 kW-h per year, while single compressor american fridge with fan meme consumes 620 kW-h.
>also 134A is on a different level pollution wise relative to r 12.
Efficiency, not pollution.
R12 systems were more efficient (higher COP), than R134a. This is why everywhere else people are using isobutane, because R134a is shit, and paying royalty to whatever DuPont isn't cool.
>China doesn’t give a shit about pumping out 12.
Based China. Fuck ozone hole. I heard they even export R12 as "R12 drop in". Absolute madlads.

[Anonymous No.1751831]

>>1751829
Actually, any European market side-by-side is under 400 kW-h per year.

[Anonymous No.1751855]

>>1751831
And probably less than 10 cubic feet. If you had bigger fridges you wouldn’t have to store your eggs on the counter

[Anonymous No.1751879]

>>1751855
Belorussian - 650 liter. You can fit 22 cubic subway sandwiches in this bad boy. 450 kW-h annual (1,5 times less, than American style). 800 Bucks.
Sharp - 660 liter. You can fit 23 cubic subway sandwiches. 410 kW-h annual
Liebherr - 688 liter. You can fit 24.3 cubic subway sandwiches. 250 kW-h annual. (2.8 times less than American style)

So, nope. Europeans have bigger fridges available, but nobody uses them, because houses are rather tiny. Except real poorfags that live in credit, or real rich people that have giant ass castle.

[Anonymous No.1751929]

>>1751879
No one uses cubic subways as a measurement anymore. Foot long is standard

[Anonymous No.1751936]

>>1751929
KEk