/wwg/

[Anonymous No.1642232]

New and improved! We have a real OP, sort of. Old thread >>1630107
Welcome to woodworking general, here we discus the working of wood and the tools and techniques to work wood. So far we tend to be mostly hand tool folk with a slant towards cabinetry and carving but all are welcome, general carpentry question such as framing/decking/general construction seems to get a better response in the /qtddtot/ or /sqt/.

>want to get into wood, where do I start?
Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking, gives you everything you need and shows you how to do it multiple ways from hand tools to power tools and gives you the knowledge to determine which is best, and then he teaches you how to apply what you learned.

>fuck joinery, I want to carve and sculpt
Chris Pye Has you covered with a wide range of books on the subject

>but I am a weeb
Japanese Woodworking Tools: Their Tradition, Spirit and Use by Toshio Odate is a common place to start.

>How do I sharpen my tools?
Leonard Lee has you covered with The Complete Guide to Sharpeninig, covers how to sharpen most everything.

I asked for links to include in OP in both of the previous editions but all you do is say gimme gimme gimme! Help improve the next /wwg/! We have a few Paul Sellers shills that bring him up every chance they get so we are going to leave him out of the OP, including him won't shut them up.

[Anonymous No.1642235]

>>1642232
Remember people, new shop tools are shit shop tools. There is not a single table saw for sale at Lowes, Home Depot or, god forbid, Harbor Freight that isn't a giant pile of garbage. You want cast iron tops, motors using belt drives, and *weight*. You don't want plastic, aluminum, or direct drive motors. The more weight it has the less vibration is an issue. If it comes with a folding stand it is just an expensive Skilsaw with a shitty table attached to it.

[Anonymous No.1642238]

>>1642235
but it maybe more then adequate for the hobbyist and there are good current production table saws, but you will not find them at Home Depot. Personally I think the hobbyist is better served by a few good hand saws.

[Anonymous No.1642510]

bump

[Anonymous No.1642535]

>>1642235
If it doesn't run off 3 phase, don't buy it.

[Anonymous No.1642542]

Question: Is the Kreig Jig worth it, or would a chinesium version be just as good? How important is it to use their pocket screws? Wouldn't normal wood screws work?

[Anonymous No.1642565]

Why did nobody ever tell me the hardest part of woodworking is deciding what exactly to make? I'm looking at making a computer desk and have absolutely no idea what design to pick.

Someone please kill me.

[Anonymous No.1642571]

>>1642232
>links
Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking vol 1-3 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1561588261 (couldn't find pdf for vol 1, sucknuts and buy the set)
Chris Pye https://www.chrispye-woodcarving.com/
Japanese woodworking yadayada https://www.amazon.com/dp/0941936465 (no pdf except behind registration wall)
Leonard Lee sharpening https://www.amazon.com/dp/1561581259 (didn't even look for pdf)

[Anonymous No.1642587]

>>1642542
I've got a coworker that goes for this thing quite a bit (on lots of things that don't need it). It makes pocket screws quick and easy. I didn't know that pocket screws were ever difficult, however.

I guess you've got to weigh the cost of this tool vs the cost of screwing up on your projects, how often you'll use it, or if you have time skill to make your own.

[Anonymous No.1642661]

I finished this with danish oil but it's attracting dirt, should I go over it with polyurethane too?

[Anonymous No.1642662]

>>1642661
clean it and don't keep it your your dusty shop

[Anonymous No.1642670]

>>1642542
The HF one was actually rated well on a forum I read, the price of the Krieg has dropped, so it is less of a factor.
The specialty screws seem a bit better, I have seen people put a tiny washer on a deck screw to mimic them.
Others just use a regular screw.

[Anonymous No.1642676]

>>1642661
As i said previously, your thin finish will allow dirt to collect in the grain and look filthy in short order, no need for poly, just do a few more costs of oil. Using a pore filler before more coats would help as well, but that is more aesthetic, just a few coats of oil will do the trick to keep filth from building and ease cleaning.

[Anonymous No.1642701]

>>1642676
Oh, I thought you were implying I needed something besides the oil

[Anonymous No.1642723]

>>1642235
>If it comes with a folding stand it is just an expensive Skilsaw with a shitty table attached to it.
Wait, are you saying that I can somehow nigger-rig my circular Skil saw into a table saw some how? Do tell.

[Anonymous No.1642739]

>>1642723
Of course. Hell, they used to have instructions on how to make one in the backs of their manuals. There are plenty of guides on how to make one yourself online.

[Anonymous No.1642751]

>>1642723
Set the runner as deep as it'll go. Plunge your blade through plywood. Move the saw an inch forward while cutting. Do that again, one half kerf to the side. Once more, for a total of three plunge cuts. Center the blade in the hole. Bolt the runner to the plywood using bolts recessed into the underside with nuts and lock washers on top. Flip it over, put it on sawhorses, screw it down.

[Anonymous No.1642814]

>>1642701
Nah, just need to apply enough to fully seal the wood, looks like you used some sort of mahogany? The mahoganys are a thirsty wood and can soak up a fair amount of oil, some will take a few coats before it starts to build on the surface, once it starts building on the surface you will have good protection and keeping it clean will be no more difficult than cleaning a wooden table top or the like.

[Anonymous No.1642840]

>>1642571
I was sort of looking for links or info not in the OP, anyone can google, but I will include them in the next edition.

>couldn't find pdf for vol 1, sucknuts and buy the set
Volume 1 is the most important! Either way hard copies are best for the wood worker, a good old fashioned book takes to saw dust and being knocked off the bench much better than any device. The series has been in print for a good many years, as have most of the books I listed, they are easy to find cheaply on the used market, try abebooks.com if you can not justify new.

>yadayada
I feel bad for you if you can not see what the Japanese tools and techniques offer to the western world, if nothing else, the ryoba is the greatest human powered tenon cutting machine ever invented.

[Anonymous No.1642891]

Are old Craftsman radial arm saws shit, or good enough that I should go grab one I have available for free and restore it? It functions as-is. I would just be rebuilding and cleaning it up since it has been sitting for years.

I'm only going to have room for one big stationary tool in my shop and they seem like the most versatile saw for wood working, but are they actually good at what they do?

[Anonymous No.1642896]

>>1642891
I'm sure they're quality.

I would not go for a radial arm as your only stationary tool. That should go to a table saw, miter saw, router table, or other tool that offers a lot of flexibility of use.

The arm is great if you're making hundreds of cuts daily, but it's easily replaced by a circ saw.

[Anonymous No.1642898]

>>1642891
The really, really, old ones were okay. Not great, but decent. They were made by Emerson who were the people making Craftsman's table saws back then. They were decent from the 1950s and into the 1960s. Very quickly after that, the quality started to drop. By the 1970s Craftsman radial arm saws were pretty much junk. By the '80s some of their smaller radial arm saws were made by Ryobi and they were even shittier. Post a picture, I will tell you if it is shit and not worth your time.

The decent ones have a large circular knob at the front of the arm. Picture related. Why were they decent but later ones shit? Accuracy. The later machines were much lighter in construction and less rigid. So, as they were used they would lose their 'zero'. That is to say, you would set them at 90 degrees from the table (zero) and after a certain number of cuts, vibration, etc., they would drift away from 90 so your cuts will be off. This is the same reason why cheap table saws are garbage, btw. So, you have to adjust the shitty ones A LOT. Why were Emerson saws only decent at best? Patents. Other companies were faster than Emerson and patented all the good designs in the 20s and 30s. They had to wait until the patents expired to make decent saws. Then, as miter saws start to appear in the mid-60's the lower end radial arm saw makers, like Emerson, started cutting corners to bring the price down.

So, what brands should you look out for? DeWalt. DeWalt invented the radial arm saw. Anything they made with a rounded cast metal arm is rock solid, regardless of year or corporate owner. Also, anything they made when they were independent (founded 1924) through the AMF years (49-60) is great. Black & Decker bought them in 1960 and they continued to be good for a number of years in their higher-end models. The consumer models started to lose quality pretty quickly. Lots of plastic and thinner castings to save money.

Delta/Rockwell also made some good ones. The 900 and 990 are beasts.

[Anonymous No.1642901]

>>1642898
This is a Rockwell era (1945-1980) Delta radial arm saw. Notice the different style of the arm. That was to dodge the DeWalt patent. The original maker was Red Star products. They got bought up by Rockwell a few years after Delta had been acquired and the design was carried over. After a few improvements, the 900 and 990 were born. Delta made very good quality radial arm saws for many years. They eventually switched to the standard arm (they are cheaper) but that was after they had been sold to Pentair in 1980.

[Anonymous No.1642902]

>>1642901
Here is an example of an AMF era DeWalt. This is part of the original patented design. Any DeWalt (or Original Saw Company saw, which still makes them to this day) with this arm shape is a good design. Rock solid.

[Anonymous No.1642903]

>>1642896

>>1642898

Thank you, I wasn't expecting so much information. I'll try grabbing a picture of the two radial arm saws I have available. If I had to guess they're the 70's-80's Craftsman variety

[Anonymous No.1642904]

>>1642902
Here is an example of a 'Power Shop' DeWalt from the B&D era. This was their consumer line. It was introduced while they were owned by AMF and continued under B&D until they spun the company off in 1988 or so. Note the 'squared' arm. These used thinner castings then the rounded arms but were still good saws if you get one made under AMF or early in the B&D era. While their quality was maintained longer than Craftsman saws they did eventually start to crash. Avoid their later saws Powershop saws. IIRC the 1200 and 1400 were the last good ones (the mid 60's).

[Anonymous No.1642908]

>>1642904
Picture related is a later Power Shop. Late 60's IIRC. Notice the white cap on top of the arm. It is plastic. Much less rigid than the full cast metal arm models. Avoid. It was basically downhill from here for DeWalt's consumer line. While they still made the round top models (and OSC still makes them today) and they continued to be good, they don't show up nearly as often as the Power Shops. Power Shops pop up ever time someone cleans out their garage. The round top models were production machines and many are still in use. You generally only see them at business liquidations and such.

>>1642903
No problem. I have insomnia atm so I have nothing better to do.

[Anonymous No.1642910]

>>1642908
Here is a Comet radial arm saw. If you ever see one of these funky beasts consider yourself lucky. They were marketed exclusively to the trades for construction. They were often pulled on their own trailers to job sites. Tradies, being a drunk, ignorant, and rowdy lot, tended to destroy them through poor maintenance and misuse. But, if you find one that isn't beaten to shit they are solid saws. Overbuilt too.

[Anonymous No.1642912]

>>1642908
Here is one available to me for $50. 220v 12" blade

[Anonymous No.1642913]

>>1642910
Similarly, there is the Skil radial arm saw. Also made by Top, prior to Skil buying them out sometime before 1951, and again sold as the 'Topp' radial arm saw after Skil sold the line to 'Power Tools Inc' in 1962 it was also marketed as a construction radial arm saw. It was sold again in 1973 to Marvco Tool & Manufacturing...

[Anonymous No.1642916]

>>1642913

Any thoughts on Black and Decker RASs?

[Anonymous No.1642918]

>>1642913
...who still make it today!

>>1642912
Hard pass. Most of that saw is thin sheet metal and plastic. It is from the 80s or 90s. Probably after they lost that famous lawsuit because it has their shitty guard strapped to it.

[Anonymous No.1642924]

>>1642916
Black and Decker bought DeWalt (still owns it too) in 1960. Any decent radial arm saw may by B&D will have the DeWalt name on it. It was and continues to be their premium brand.

While B&D did sell radial arm saw under their own name they tended to be piles of shit like picture related. AFAIK this thing had no cast parts in it al all. They were super lightweight and very shitty. The thin construction and one-piece column/arm made them flex a lot when cutting. Kind of like how those lightweight Harbor Freight drill presses will flex when you drill with them. Not good at all for clean cuts or accuracy.

[Anonymous No.1642926]

>>1642924
Here is another example of a shitty 'DeWalt' design. This was a predecessor of my last image. It kept the true column of their better designs but featured the garbage arm made out of thin, non-cast metal. While this one kept the DeWalt name on it they had much more prominent B&D branding. They cut that shit out PDQ because it started to damage the DeWalt name.

[Anonymous No.1642928]

>>1642926
Back to other makers, here is a lovely little design: the Wilson radial arm saw. This guy was a copy of the DeWalt design but it had an interesting design change. It had the rails the carriage runs on outside of the arm.

In most radial arm saw designs the carriage holds the motor and saw blade and hangs under the arm on some 'tracks' of some kind. In the DeWalt and Rockwell/Delta designs the carriage runs on ball bearings and a track that is milled into the inside of the arm casting. This is a very good way of doing it. Simple, robust, but requires good tolerances to machine properly (ie skilled laborers and high quality control). The Wilson made the system easier to make by having it outside and not directly part of the arm. No milling work on a major part but not as protected from sawdust, etc. It didn't last very long. Patented in 42 is was out of production by the late 50s.

In the shitty B&D/DeWalt designs above some tracks are pressed into the grooves of the shit metal arm and the carriage runs on those. Super shitty but cheap and requires no skilled labor. In the funky Skil/Topp design and also the Comet design the entire arm slides back and forth inside a housing mounted on top of the column. This worked and was very robust but was not as good as the original DeWalt design, which was simpler. Of course, by the time all of DeWalt's patents expired these companies were invested in their technology and couldn't change.

[Anonymous No.1642929]

>>1642918

>hard pass

Bummer, I think the other two Craftsman RASs I have available for free look similar to that one.

At least now I know a bit more about what to look for on craigslist though.

[Anonymous No.1642935]

>>1642928
And then there is the Sawsmith. Made by the makers of the Shopsmith (which has changed several times), this one had a similar motor system as the Shopsmith Mark V. A pretty standard DeWalt knock off it had a motor with a Reeves drive (a special pulley system) which allowed on the fly RPM changes and a very minute control of the RPMs. The saw was also designed to use many of the same accessories as the Shopsmith. When the original makers of the Shopsmith cratered in the 1960s production of the Sawsmith stopped. When a new company was formed in the 1970s to restart Shopmith production the Sawsmith didn't come back with it even though they acquired all the rights and tooling. Eventually, the tooling was scrapped.

>>1642929
Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble. Just keep an eye out. I got my first RAS for free (DeWalt Powershop 1400) and I've seen many, many more good quality saws in your price range pop up over the years. Also, do you have a Habitat for Humanity ReStore in your area? They often get tools and they sell them cheap. Mine has an AMF era round top for $50 and I've seen plenty like it. I assume you have an eye on Craig's List and Facebook but what about eBay? Plenty of local pickup auctions for saws cheap. Also, check local auction houses. People forget those exist with eBay. I have 5 in my area alone and things like radial arm saws go cheap unless it is some high-end production model like a Rockwell 990. Check government/school/university auctions too. You never know when someone is liquidation a school woodshop or unused tools from the local shop yard.

[Anonymous No.1642938]

>>1642935
Just started prowling eBay. Thanks for the other ideas, I'll give those a try too.

I guess I'm not totally fixed on getting a RAS, but they seem like the best bang for the buck as far as a woodshop centerpiece goes. Do old tablesaws have a similar used market going for them or is it best to just invest in the new stuff when it comes to those?

[Anonymous No.1642944]

>>1642938
Older is often better at the same price. See >>1642235. While a nice Unisaw like that (cabinet saw) could easily go for several hundred dollars or even a little over a grand a new cabinet saw is a few grand at the low end. I got my Unisaw for $140 at a local auction of a high school woodshop. Even something like an old Craftsman saw from the '60s is better than anything you could buy at Home Depot or Harbor Freight. It would have a cast iron top, an accurately rater motor, and it would be solidly built. Those terrible 'contractor' saws you see with their aluminum or sheet steel tops, plastic bases, and glorified circular saw motors are just awful.

Older saws have fences that aren't great. The Unisaw ones were good for their day but they are finicky and take adjusting compared to a modern Biesemeyer fence or something similar. Lesser saws, while pretty nice in every other way, often had fences that you just can't get right and have to measure every time you move them before cutting. Refitting an old saw with a new fence is child's play though. Super easy. In every other way, old tools are superior. Outside of the SawStop nothing on the safety end is new. Blade guards and riving knives have been available since WWII and, while they may have wandered off by the time you buy it, they can be replaced or remade easily enough.

[Anonymous No.1643057]

>>1642840
>Volume 1 is the most important!
I know, which is why i didn't just post a link to v2/v3 PDFs i found.
>cannot see what the Japanese tools and techniques offer
Yadayada was not a belittlement, I was just doing other things and got tired of typing (phoneposter).

[Anonymous No.1643064]

>>1642944

Can a solid RAS do light metal cutting? I'd be especially sold if I could cut like 2" aluminum square stock

[Anonymous No.1643087]

>>1643064
With the right blade, yes. There are a few caveats though.

Radial arm saws run at about 3,600 RPM so you need a blade that will handle that. Abrasive blades can often operate at well above that RPM but not a lot of metal cutting carbide blades can. They get too hot and it dulls the blade. So, buy the right blade.

Next, you have to cut backward. See this video. Jump to 1:20. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMjMaBi6ETQ

Finally; safety, safety, safety. One of the major problems with radial arm saws, and the reason so many idiots are scared of them, is they can ride up over the wood if the blade catches or you feed too fast. In other words, if you are a moron and use it improperly you can hurt yourself. Too many Boomers learned that the hard way and 7 Finger Dan continues to blame the saw and not himself for this. For cutting metal you solve that issue by cutting backward. Do not try to cut forwards on metals, you will have problems. As mentioned in the video above you also have to be wary of metal dust and sparks. Because you are feeding backward the blade is cutting up into the metal and the dust flies up. Make sure you have dust collection setup and you wear a mask. Also, clamp the workpiece down to the table just like you should when using a chop saw. It is doubly important here though. Kickback is not your friend and clamping it down greatly reduces the chance of the workpiece moving during the cut.

[Anonymous No.1643090]

>>1643064
With a carbide blade, it would probably be capable, but it would be really dangerous. Metals are much more prone to kickback than wood, so metal-cutting circular saws typically have built-in vises to keep the stock secure, and they use a fixed-length blade swing (like a non-sliding miter saw) to keep the blade more stable. Saws made for wood spin a lot faster than cold saws made for metal, and they're not as torquey, but they can work. You might consider a bandsaw or portaband though.That's what metalworking bandsaws are made for, and that in particular is about what most portabands are optimized for. A cold saw would be best, but they're expensive.

[Anonymous No.1643131]

is the samurai carpenter any good or just a meme?

im interested in his online course, but sure if i would be over paying.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC06fO6LNH_AUgjbmqaZRV5Q

[Anonymous No.1643257]

Selling rudimentary tool
>I'll text you the address tomorrow
We've already agreed on a price .
>I'll text you the address when you are 30 min away.
Boomers I swear to god.

[Anonymous No.1643300]

>>1643257
>Estate sale on CL
>Sale starts at 6 AM, runs till noon
>Only has a street name, no address
>Listing says tons of vintage tools
>"Address will be posted the day of the sale".

I wake up at 6 fucking AM on a Saturday and check the god damn listing.
No changes since it was posted 4 days ago. Fuck me.
I check it every few minutes and it finally updates with the address at about 10:30 AM.
I roll out there and she is not even setup. No signs or anything. Just stacks of stuff in boxes in the garage.
The old lady says "Sorry, I forgot I was having the sale today."
It was her husband's stuff, who has passed away a long time ago.
She has no idea what any of it is, just packed it up for the last move and left it sitting for years.
Nothing is priced or organized in any way.
Everything is wrapped in moving paper and none of the boxes are labeled.
I start digging and asking about prices.
"Just make a pile and we'll tally it up at the end."
I ended up making out of there like a bandit but god damn did I have to work for it.
Not a single other person showed up the hour or so I was there digging.

[Anonymous No.1643393]

>not motivated to do anything in the shop unless I get a new tool
>start tool hoarding
>become guy with all the tools and no projects

[Anonymous No.1643395]

>>1643257
>I'll text you the address when you are close.
When and how did this become the norm? It's completely unnecessary. When I'm trying to sell something my first reply always includes the address and what days and times works for me. What are they going to do with my address? Skip the other thousand houses on the way there and rob me for a tool with a discounted price? Gd boomers i swear.

[Anonymous No.1643400]

>>1643300
>I ended up making out of there like a bandit but god damn did I have to work for it.

Are you actually complaining in this ridiculous wall of text? You expected a fucking display rack with prices on every item, just so you could haggle? She should have told you to fuck off and waited for a decent person.

[Anonymous No.1643428]

>>1643395
In case you're selling something that shows you might be wealthy, or in case you live in a good neighborhood, you're an interesting target
so if you tell them both your address and when you'll be out of town, that's a massive opportunity

[Anonymous No.1643472]

>>1643400
>You expected a fucking display rack with prices on every item, just so you could haggle?
Generally, when one goes to an estate sale you expect the items to at least be available for viewing. I had to literally unpack boxes from an unlit detached garage. I was there for tools. Over half the stuff in there was household items like clothes and kitchen gadgets and shit. Nothing was labeled or organized. I ended up hauling every box outside and unpacking it to see what was in it. If it wasn't anything I cared about I then packed it back up and carried it back inside the garage. If it was something I cared about I sorted through it, grabbed what I wanted and then packed it back up and put it inside. I've been to literally hundreds of garage sales and never seen anything like that before or since.

[Anonymous No.1643539]

What advantages does a radial arm saw have over a radial miter/chop saw?

[Anonymous No.1643541]

flea market and tag sale finds today
>free chest of tools after some schmoozing
>$15 Ry*bi router
>$5 pre-war stanley no4 "defiance"?
>$5 pre-war stanley no3
>not pictured: free 10in miter saw, blade guard didn't retract, lever mechanism was scraping on something

[Anonymous No.1643555]

>>1643539
RAS will cut wider stock, and it forces you to pay close attention or lose fingers more easily. That's about it.

[Anonymous No.1643581]

>>1643555
I see. Why would someone use a RAS instead of a table saw for cutting wider stock?

[Anonymous No.1643595]

>>1642232

Other links for op:

The Anarchist's Toolchest, by Christopher Schwarz

Finishing 101, Bob Flexner

Understanding Wood, Bruce Hoadley

Illustrated Cabinetry, by Bill Hylton

And fuck you Paul Sellers is a good add. He's got good material out there. I don't get why people bitch about him.

[Anonymous No.1643608]

>>1643595
>I don't get why people bitch about him.
I did not bitch about him, I just took a poke at his fans for funs. I have no problems with Mr. Sellers.

Flexner, Hoadly and Hylton are a go, Schwarz is a maybe, need to pull it out and give it another gander. I am trying to keep it newbie friendly and I just do not think he is good for that, he is better when you have some experience and have some ability to filter his enthusiasm from reality.

[Anonymous No.1643665]

>>1643608
how about stumpy nubs or wood and shop?

[Anonymous No.1643716]

>>1643539
They can be bought cheaply on the used market and they can do many more things that a standard mitersaw. Picture related. Really, though, if you can afford to buy a table saw, a miter saw, a disc/belt sander, a drum sander, a router table, etc., etc. and you have space for it all then you don't need a radial arm saw.

>>1643581
I think you are confusing the tools. Miter saws and radial arm saws are generally used for cross-cutting. They excel at it because the wood stays in place and you draw the blade across the wood. This makes it very easy to cut very long pieces of wood accurately. Table saws can be used for this but it is harder because the blade stays in one place and you have to draw the wood across the blade. That is very hard for cutting long pieces of wood because they are awkward to handle. Table saws are generally used for rip cuts because they excel at that. While you can do rip cuts on a radial arm saw their capacity for it is smaller and it is awkward because of the placement of the blade. I don't think you can do rip cuts on a miter saw at all.

[Anonymous No.1643785]

>>1643665
stumpy nubs is a whinny little child with serious entitlement issues, never seen any of his videos, but my encounters with him have left me with no desire to give him more viewers. I will check out Wood and Shop, never came across that one.

I am not actually against including him, I am just not going to watch his videos to see if he warrants inclusion and fits the criteria for what I am going for with the OP, which is the actual reason I am not including Mr Sellers, he tends to give beginners delusions of greatness and then they become disheartened when they realize it is not as easy as he makes it look. Mainly I am going for things that focus primarily on the basic skills and are less concerned about showcasing the abilities and tools of the host.

[Anonymous No.1643789]

>>1643665
>stumpy
dumb name, dece channel

[Anonymous No.1643791]

>>1643785
How do you form an opinion on a youtube persona without watching a video first?

[Anonymous No.1643793]

>>1643791
Believe it or not, youtube personas are people too, and they exist outside of youtube. As I said, I have had encounters with him.

[Anonymous No.1643952]

>live in apartment so can't have loud, huge power tools/workshop tools
>decide making everything with hand tools would be cool and I could charge more for things I made
besides, people made beautiful furniture and stuff for centuries before we had table saws and jointers, right?
>need at least one wood plane to start
>everyone says buy a stanley or a lie-nielsen, literally kill yourself if you think about buying anything else
>go on ebay for stanley plane.
>all the auctions get to $80+shipping
>"buy it now" for even more

fuck everyone who inflated the prices of those vintage planes

[Anonymous No.1644000]

>>1643952
new stanley planes are slightly cheaper, i dont know why you wouldnt get one of those instead of a vintage one unless you want bragging rights with all of your woodworker friends. heck, even on home depot i saw a number 4 stanley for less than 20
https://www.homedepot.com/p/No-4-Adjustable-Bench-Plane-12-404/203756360
it isnt the top end model but i bet you it gets the job done

[Anonymous No.1644040]

>>1643665

Wood and Shop is very good, especially for heritage comfy feels atmospheric stuff. Good interviews and tours of don Williams, krenov, etc. And good instructions too. It's a channel that walks you over to more channels.

I really don't like stumpy nubs. Some good people have spoken highly of him, but I keep going back to his diamond sharpening video where he walks over the features that a "good" plate is supposed to have. All of which line up with Trend (and rule out DMT and Aroma, which are widely regarded as the best of their kind, whereas Trend is a second tier product).

Surprise surprise, video sponsored by Trend. It soured me on his other videos.

>>1643952

Veritas (Lee Valley) is up there with Lie Nielsen.

Look for other good vintage brands like Millers Fall and sargaent. There are web sites that talk about the Stanley's and their equivalents. Many are as good or better than Stanley.

Modern Stanley's (past 1960 or so) are crap. Much more cheaply constructed and crudely machined.

$80 isn't much for a lifetime tool. You'll spend more on a crappy power tool, and a single machine like a jointer can run you more than all your hand tools put together. It's two nights out on a dinner date.

You really only need three bench planes. Maybe even only one. In the great scheme of things, it's cheap. Or make your own wood planes (Google the krenov style planes).

Oh, something else to add: suppliers. Highland Woodworking and Tools For Working Wood are top tier. So is Lee Valley. Rockler and Woodcraft are second tier and more likely to be local. Obviously this is all USA.

[Anonymous No.1644146]

>>1643952
>fuck everyone who inflated the prices of those vintage planes
They have always been overpriced on ebay, if you watch for awhile you can get a good deal every so often. Only reason to stick to Stanley is if you are going used, you know what you are getting with a Stanley, there are just too many weird variations to every other old brand and most newbies are not going to be able to sift through them. Plenty of good planes on the market, Stanley's Sweetheart line is doing well, Kunz Plus, Veritas, many people seem quite happy with WoodRiver and we have the wood plane makers E. C. Emmerich and Ulmia, sure I am forgetting some others.

>>1644040
>Modern Stanley's (past 1960 or so) are crap. Much more cheaply constructed and crudely machined.
You have never touched the current production Sweet Heart line, have you? They are doing well with those, they may not go into the fit and finish as well as they have in the past, but it is aesthetic.

>You really only need three bench planes. Maybe even only one.
Just one, a #4 is damn handy and perfectly capable of jointing boards under 6' or so with no real issues.

>Or make your own wood planes (Google the krenov style planes).
Krenov style is more work to make than a traditional style plane if you do not have a shop and tools already. You have to cut one board into 4 bits, surface them all smooth, accurately drill the pin hole, not really a task for no tools. Traditional style can be done with just a couple chisels.

Your teirs are a joke, as all such things tend to be, Rockler and Woodcraft serve different markets and different purposes, handtools are secondary for them, Woodcraft is one of the only importers of Pfiel and and a few other great hand tools, they have their place in the market and fill it well.

[Anonymous No.1644211]

>>1644040
>Stanley's (past 1960 or so) are crap
Meh, there is not really that big of a difference between eras on the bench planes, they have more or less maintained the same qualiity, cut back a tad on machining, but nothing that affects operation. Does not matter if your stanley is 1 year, 10 years or 100 years old they all require the same work to get them working unless a previous owner has done it. Square and flatten the frog, check and adjust its fit, sharpen the blade, fit and tune the chip breaker and cap iron, flatten the sole. Thing is, people get a plane from 1940 with these issues they say time has taken its toll and fix it up, new plane with this issues, CHEAP! They only had good machining for a time at the beginning and for the bedrock line, the rest has never been all that great, just good enough but bad enough to make people think chatter was caused by the thin blade when it was just the fit of frog to iron, to breaker to cap. They make a very rigid assembly that will not chatter when properly fit, but they almost never are, or were, and now everyone makes thick irons for Stanley planes. It is more or less just people trying to feel special about themselves and their tools.

[Anonymous No.1644219]

>>1642232
So, I'm too embarrassed to show pics. I tried making a very rough dovetail box out of pallet wood. I had tools left over of my dad's and grandpa's. They weren't woodworkers by any means, but needed them on occasion.

Anyway, I tried to cut out the slots for a dovetail, or what ever square joints those are. However, every time the danged slots would break or I'd just not get an accurate cut... My 100% biggest problem with doing anything in wood is getting a perfectly straight cut.

Rather, I have what I think is a back saw, and another saw that looks like a tiny hacksaw. I have some decent chisels as well. The "teeth" of my dovetail slots keeps breaking off. It's pallet wood, is that my problem?

Also, when I make a cut with my skilsaw, I can never get the saw to cut perfectly straight vertically. I've tried multiple saws and have the same problem. They always end up with a curve or just slightly off enough to not let me get it right.

[Anonymous No.1644246]

>>1644219
Pallet wood tends to have grain which goes every which way but straight, which makes joinery like dovetails quite weak. Since you do not know the proper names of the part of a dovetail and use words like "slots" and "square joints" instead of pins and tails, it sounds like you did not actually look to see how they are layed out and cut. Dovetails are only as good as the layout work, the rest takes practice and wood with decent grain.

Pictures would make it possible to offer help, failing that, ask google about cutting dovetails and read up, the only help I could possible give without pictures is just to describe the process of laying out and cutting dovetails and that has been covered thousands of times on the web and elsewhere already.

[Anonymous No.1644247]

>>1644219
Forgot to answer on the circular saw, most likely it is just that your fence is deflecting near the middle or your work is deflecting near the middle. Use a thicker fence and better support for your work.

[Anonymous No.1644262]

>>1644246
I did watch a bunch of videos on how people do it. I don't remember the terminology, as I'm just trying to get into woodworking. Only "woodworking" I've done is cut up a pallet and tried to figure out what the fuck it was. Ended up fitting six whiskey bottles perfectly, and had a good slot for a gun rack, so I made one. Then stained it with gunstock. Looks rustic as fuck, maybe some hipster would buy it on etsy for $50.

Anyway, the dovetail project was something I did a month ago, just happened to remember it and will likely get back on it this evening if it's not too miserably hot. However, I imagine my problem is not using quality wood, but soft shitty pallet wood.

>>1644247
I didn't even know what a fence was until you mentioned it. I'd been eyeballing it and using the guide on the saw, but my cuts after much practice do run along the line. However a 2x4 for example, it cuts like a wave toward the bottom, almost like the blade is bending. Where the mark actually is, is cut along the line. If I were to make a mark all the way around the wood, the top where I cut would be cut, but the bottom mark would make like a wave. I would think I'd have more issues not cutting along the line, rather than a straight up and down cut being the problem.

[Anonymous No.1644276]

>>1643952
Inflated prices on eBay? Say it ain't so!. In all seriousness, you don't buy vintage tools on eBay to save money, you buy them from garage sales and estate sales. Maybe local online auctions. I've shown up at sales and picked up a rack of planes for $5 each. I have a Stanley #55 I paid $25. You'll never see that price on eBay.

>>1644000
They are cheaper because they are not as good. Thinner castings, sloppier machining, less robust design, cheaper materials. Do they work? Yes. Does a Ryobi drill work? Yes. Does it work as well as a Milwaukee drill? No. Made by the same company though. Modern Stanley planes are about as good as their 'budget line' of planes they made back in the day. They were sold under the 'Handyman' name. You can get those for next to nothing.

>>1644040
>Look for other good vintage brands like Millers Fall and Sargent.
Add Record and Preston to that list. Also Craftsman. Many of their planes were made by Sargent. The only issue you have is planes started to drop in quality in the 1960s, regardless of brand. Everyone was moving to power tools so they had to compete on price.

>>1644146
The Sweathearts are decent but not at the prices they charge compared to buying their old stuff.

[Anonymous No.1644287]

>>1644262
just checking, but your are cutting along the line on the waste side of the line, right? it iust takes practice to get your cuts straight. double check all the adjustments on your saw and by that I mean untighten everything, move it, move it back, and then retighten it. you think saws would cut straight perfect every time, but without a fence, it takes skill. a fence is very easy to make, you just have to measure from the blade to the edge of the saw and then use your fence/scrap at that offset from where you want the cut

[Anonymous No.1644309]

>>1644276
>They are cheaper because they are not as good. Thinner castings, sloppier machining, less robust design, cheaper materials.
Your talking out your ass, the sweetheart line has castings the thickness of the bedrock design, they went to 1/8" thick A2 blades and a Norris adjustment, the machining is not perfect and you will spend an hour or two tweaking it, but it is less than half the cost of the LN or the like, $90 for a #4. The block planes in that line have thicker casting than any in Stanley's history, that 60 1/2 is great.

Casting thickness varied throughout Stanley's history and likely has more to do with where in the production run the planes came from, molds and rolling wear and things change. My 1920s #2c has very thin sides, thinnest I have seen actually, my post war #5 has the thickest I have seen out side of the SWs and bedrock. When I first starting buying hand tools anything after about 1930 was candidates crap, the it shifted to anything up to ww2, now it is post war. The changes every few years.

You are just parroting what you read/hear.

[Anonymous No.1644341]

>>1643257
>sell car on cl
>16 responses in 1 hour
>is it still available
It's an hour old add faggot
>can you run a vin check on my scam website?
No u.

[Anonymous No.1644345]

>>1643395
This.

>call me when you get to town I'll give you directions.

Just gimme the fucking adress google can already watch you take a shit from mars nobody cares. Or a gas station ffs.

>I'll just give you directions

Block and ignore.
Price firm cash only listed 13 fucking times in the add

Qould ya trade half a lawnmower blade and deliver it for 30 cents?

[Anonymous No.1644347]

>>1643428
I have a bait house and fake online profiles. Caught 12 theives while on 8 fake vacations. Kek

[Anonymous No.1644365]

>>1644309
I wasn't talking about the Sweathearts. I was talking about the plain ol' Stanley designs. The ones that used to be good and you can pick up for a fiver at a fleamarket. Those up-market designs aren't even worth considering when you can get older ones that are just as good used for next to nothing.

[Anonymous No.1644383]

>>1642232
I am a complete and utter newbie. I have never touched a chisel in my entire life. I want to get into carving and sculpting, and YES, I have already checked Chris Prye, I just wanted to know if any of these tools look good to you. They were the cheapest I could find online.

I'm especially skeptical of the first one. It was suspiciously cheap. Could it be any good? Should I invest into better tools, or can cheap ones cover me? I am a hobbyist and don't plan on doing wood working in any professional way.

Thanks in advance!

[Anonymous No.1644419]

>>1644383
No, those are awful. They are soft metal and will dull instantly.

[Anonymous No.1644501]

How strong are glued hardwood tabletops?
Could i just screw in 4 legs to 40x800x1800mm tabletop and call it a day? (each leg has 120mm mounting plate with 8 35x4.5mm screws)

[Anonymous No.1644503]

>>1644501
Depends on what glue was used, what gluing method (butt joints, dowels, splines, biscuits), and what kind of hardwood.

[Anonymous No.1644505]

>>1644503 It's an oak, factory made butt joints, Kleiberit 303.2 D3 glue

[Anonymous No.1644509]

>>1644505
Butt joints? Nah son. You put any weight on it or drop something on it and it will fail. Put a frame under it and attach the legs to that.

[Anonymous No.1644518]

>>1644501
Plenty strong, I replaced all of the shelves in my kitchen cupboards with 3/4 birch of that stuff and use one of the extras as a work surface, just clamp it to my saw bench and start banging away, it gets poor support and a good amount of abuse, still holding up fine after all these years. The glue joint on the long grain is very strong and the end to end joints are finger jointed, so it is just as strong as any other glued up table top.

[Anonymous No.1644520]

>>1644509 Would something like that do the job? It should be strong enough at least along the grain right?

[Anonymous No.1644523]

>>1644520
That would work just fine. The ones in my cupboards are only supported by a short dowel in each corner, which is about the worst possible way to support such a board, no issues, have a full set of stone wear dishes on one an other than a slight sag, no signs of failure. And I do mean a full set, so lots of weight.

[Anonymous No.1644540]

>>1644523
>>1644518
The issue is not the method of construction, it is the length. His tabletop is almost 6 feet long on the longest side. That puts a tremendious strain on the middle of the board. To stiffen it you should build a box frame under the surface of the tabletop. Picture related. This adds a ton of support to the tabletop and prevents it from flexing when weight is put on it. If the top is allowed to flex and sag it can often cause the glued joints to fail over time.

[Anonymous No.1644560]

>>1644540
40mm of oak is plenty strong for the span, if it was 20mm, yeah he would need an apron. With those big square legs he will have plenty of support. 40mm is a tad over 1.5 inches, takes a good amount of weight to flex that even at that span.

Digging through my reference material I have this for 1/4" deflection on red oak at 48" long;
3/4x8 - 88 pounds
3/4x12 - 133 pounds
1x8 - 249 pounds
1x12 - 374 pounds
The increase in stiffness by just adding 1/4" of thickness and 4" in depth is quite abit, over 4 times the weight. Being laminated that oak top is even stiffer than a solid piece since the grain is not all in the same direction and the glue itself adds some stiffness.

I would have no issues with this table and would expect it to live a long life.

[Anonymous No.1644561]

>>1644560
>and the glue itself adds some stiffness.
That should be, the glue JOINTS themselves add some stiffness, the glue itself does not.

[Anonymous No.1644730]

>>1643393
Literally my booming father. And on top of that he only ever bought shit tier garbage.

[Anonymous No.1644826]

>>1644540
what is the purpose of the cleat? i know it says for when the wood moves, but why would the wood move at all?

[Anonymous No.1644833]

>>1644826
Presumably for humidity changes.

[Anonymous No.1644852]

>>1644826
Wood expands and contracts with changes in humidity. The cleats are one of many ways of dealing with it, I am not a fan of them, I would rather have some hard fixed to the apron or what ever is on the underside of the table and just make the screw hole in that oversized. such cleats are overkill, for anything but maybe a picnic table, if the top moves enough to justify such a cleat, it is probably not going to last long.

I generally do not bother with any such things, if the wood was properly dried and has had some time to rest the wood movement will be small enough to not matter. A case can be made for such mounting for some woods, but the common furniture hardwoods are stable enough if they are treated right.

[Anonymous No.1644880]

>>1644365
>modern stanley sucks
what about the SWs?
>not those but they still suck
I really do not believe you have ever used one of them, they are the best planes they have made since the bedrock line and once you put in an hour or two tuning them up they are every bit of plane as the LN/Veritas for less then half the price. Every bit of work you have to do on a SW you are likely going to have to do on a vintage plane but no rust or paint to remove. The main difference between the SWs and LN/Veritas is that they do not come ready to use out of the box and they do not have every single inch machined and polished to perfection, they just worry about giving that treatment to the spots it actually matters and get it close enough that that is not much work. My dads #62 SW only took about 30-45 minutes to get working as well as his Veritas smooth, a friend has a #4 and #5 SW and reported similar.

Even the regular line is not that bad, and certainly the best of the budget planes, the inconsistencies in casting and machining is nothing new, Stanley has always had that, as I said my 1920s #2C has the thinnest casting I have seen on any era Stanley, the corrugations almost go through the sole it is so thin. The line of when Stanley started sucking moves every few years and will continue to do so thanks to this sort of mentality, every one has to have a 'special' tool, it can not just be a good tool that does the job, it needs to be vintage or boutique.

On the positive side, this mentality brought me a good chunk of change when I switched to primarily wooden planes and sold off most all my Stanleys bench planes, came out well ahead, the sales covered the cost of my new planes, a LN dovetail and carcass, and all the money I spent buying those old planes. 2C is next to go once I find a correct vintage rear tote, it should fund my plow plane, I will keep the #5.

[Anonymous No.1644884]

Hey all! I have very little knowledge of real woodworking, other than sanding & applying stain/varnish, so your help is appreciated.

I have a couple of 50cm wooden dowels that I want to keep standing erect (heh) and with exact spacing between them throughout their length (basically make a stand with 2 upright poles that some existing piece of plastic with 2 holes in it can freely slide over).

How can I keep them upright, and more importantly how do I keep them parallel (so the piece of plastic doesn't get stuck along the way if they're at even a slight angle)? I could drill into a bottom piece of wood and glue them in, but still I'd have to make sure their top ends keep straight as the glue dries. Any simple suggestions?

[Anonymous No.1644893]

>>1644884
drill press, drill through the plastic and the base at the same time

[Anonymous No.1644901]

>>1644893
>Some googling
Ah, that seems useful. I guess I could drill 2 straight holes deep enough so the bottom holds the dowels straight. But what if I don't have a drill press? Also what if I wanted the base to be a different material (for example clear epoxy that takes time to harden)?

[Anonymous No.1644903]

>>1644884
you could drill a piece of wood to hold them and then flip that upside down, attach some screw or bolt eyes and then hang it from the ceiling. then you can use a level to make it perfectly straight

[Anonymous No.1645042]

>>1644560
>Digging through my reference material
This is a better way:
https://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/

[Anonymous No.1645097]

>>1645042
>This is a better way:
Not sure I agree, it is very conservative regarding load bearing. There is a point for a given width and thickness of board where it becomes drastically weaker, and this calculator somewhat hides that point due to its very very conservative ratings. it just shows as a slight increase in sag when it actually has become considerably weaker. You won't get into trouble if you follow it as gospel but you will also find yourself making shelves heavier than need be which is not the best when cost is an issue.

The math it uses is the same math used to calculate beam deflection for load bearing beams, so it has a built in safety margin since a failure in a beam or even enough sag can spell disaster. A book shelf or desk does not need such a wide safety margin, double is plenty, not the 3 to 4 times the calculator seems to factors in for the handful of sizes I put in. As said, if you use the calculator follow it as gospel since it does hide that point when a board experiences a large drop in strength, which makes sense since boards of such sizes would never be used as load bearing structural members, but are used for shelves.

The chart I used last night was from the spring 2005 issue of WoodWorking Magazine.

[Anonymous No.1645103]

>>1643541
>free chest
how?

[Anonymous No.1645194]

>>1644383
all of em are crap, and I do not recommend you get them
for now, I'd recommend you buy a good carving knife, say the morakniv 120, and whittle a bit
Then over time, you can pick up reasonable gouges and chisels at fleamarkets, second hand shops, ebay, etc

[Anonymous No.1645241]

>>1644383
>>1645194
The general idea is good but the path is somewhat lacking. The moras are terrible knives for someone looking to get into pushing chisels and carving in the round. A carver looking to get into chisels should buy a chisel to start with, not a knife. A plain old straight chisel can make a very wide variety of cuts and the techniques you learn with it apply to all the rest of the chisels, none of the techniques of whittling with a half assed whittler like the more can be applied to pushing chisels. If you are buying a knife to whittle with, buy a proper whittler, you can get them for the same price. If you just want to whittle, use your pocket knife.

This mora obsession is getting old, it is a general purpose utility knife. I really hope the streets of Sweden are full of insufferable people endlessly expounding upon all the wonderful benefits of the Stanley Knife.

[Anonymous No.1645245]

>>1644383
>>1645194
The general idea is good but the path is somewhat lacking. The moras are terrible knives for someone looking to get into pushing chisels and carving in the round. A carver looking to get into chisels should buy a chisel to start with, not a knife. A plain old straight chisel can make a very wide variety of cuts and the techniques you learn with it apply to all the rest of the chisels, none of the techniques of whittling with a half assed whittler like the mora can be applied to pushing chisels. If you are buying a knife to whittle with, buy a proper whittler, you can get them for the same price. If you just want to whittle, use your pocket knife.

This mora obsession is getting old, it is a general purpose utility knife. I really hope the streets of Sweden are full of insufferable people endlessly expounding upon all the wonderful benefits of the Stanley Knife.

[Anonymous No.1645264]

>>1645245
to me it seems like they merely wanted to get into carving and sculpting and assumed the way to go would be to get gouges, I proposed a similarly priced road into carving that actually allows you to enjoy yourself working with decent tools compared to the way-too-flimsy irons they posted
Do you have any specific whittlers you'd recommend?

The 120 just has a bunch of properties I like (slightly too long imo but a decent length nonetheless, comes reasonably sharp, decent handle, handy blade-shape), and can be had for less than 15 bucks, so it's my go-to knife to recommend to those wanting to get into carving/whittling in general, but if ya got something better in a similar pricerange I'm all ears

[Anonymous No.1645274]

>>1645264
>Do you have any specific whittlers you'd recommend?
Your standard chip carving knife is a great whittler, all the big names in carving make a set. Pic related is a the Hirsch version and costs about $15. The blade is narrow enough, to get quite tight curves, short enough to keep good power and control, the tip is short enough to not snap when doing those tight curves and the handle shape makes it easy to control. One of the best general purpose carving knives ever thought up, there is a reason everyone makes it. The blade is on the straight side for some, but the chip carving world has about two dozen different blade types to choose from and most should be able to find a blade to suit their style. Chip carving has not caught on yet and still thought as folksy so the tools have not gotten expensive, there are a few very useful knives in the range for both general shop use and general carving.

[Anonymous No.1645276]

>>1645274
I rather like chip carving myself and have a couple of chip carving knifes, though not the particular type you showed
They are very useful when cutting small details, and I use them extensively for some types of carving and I use them a lot for some types of cuts, but would not recommend them as a first carving knife unless they want to start out with chip carving, I'd prefer a knife with a way thicker blade

[Anonymous No.1645289]

>>1645276
It is not a chip carving knife, it is just one of the many knives that the chip carving world has borrowed from other traditions and in our current mora obsessed world it is almost always lumped into the chip carving knives these days, this one comes from whittling and is the classic whittler. Thought the handle was a dead give away, notice how it is designed to be pulled with the fingers towards the thumb in whittler fashion, figured any carver would have spotted that a mile off.

You seem to be pretending to be more experienced than actually are.

[Anonymous No.1645354]

>>1642232
Hi everyone. This post is mostly going to be off-topic so bear with me.
I am going to apply for an entry level "will train" position at a local cabinet shop. The job is essentially just building cabinets, whatever that entails.
I have never built a cabinet before, but I imagine it isn't too hard, assuming you have good plans, tools, and lumber. I think a cabinet shop would be well stocked, especially one that has been in business for over 30 years.
Is there anything specific I should include in my resume? I was going to include the types of power and hand tools that I have experience with and maybe say some of my skills include being able to make things square, level, and plumb, being able to read plans and measurements down to the 1/64th.
I won't post my actual resume here, just looking for some ideas and feedback from all of you experienced woodworkers.

[Anonymous No.1645412]

>>1645354
Don't come in expecting to wow them without actual cabinet making experience. It might not be "too hard" for you but it takes precision. 1/64th precision is likely too much though. Wood probably moves that much by afternoon.

Short of actual cabinet building experience, these might benefit you.
-cabinet install experience
-finish trim carpentry experience
-joining experience
-ability to identify the parts of and joints used in a cabinet
-CAD experience and print reading
-CNC experience
-construction exp

Short of these and trade school or degrees, idk. They understand you're applying for an entry level job. You'll need to understand you're applying for the chance to be paid to learn. I guess convey that you have common sense, can use hand tools and shop tools safely, can work smart, and are a likeable worthwhile person to have on the shop floor.

[Anonymous No.1645414]

>>1642565
Build a ton of smaller projects until you develop a personal style

[Anonymous No.1645441]

>>1645354
Cabinet shops these days are mostly low skilled positions. They are run like an assembly line. Expect to spend a fair amount of time in front of one machine doing the same operations over and over again. Most of the material used these days is engineered wood. Plywood if you are lucky, MDF and similar if you are not. Really fancy-pants cuts will be made by a CNC router. The 'workman' making the most money? The CAD draftsman, who will be in an air-conditioned shop on the second floor and has a degree.

Now, you could end up fucked. They could have you in an 'installer' position. You basically load of the truck with half-assembled prefab cabinets, roll out to some worksite and spend an hour sweating your balls off unloading the truck in 100° weather with no AC cause the house ain't complete yet, just to set a few wedges, drive a few screws and fuck off to the next one.

Or even worse you could be a glorified packer in a mail-order cabinet door business. You spend your days loading boxes, applying labels, and carting around boxes of replacement cabinet doors. Might as well be working at the UPS store.

Oh, and if you think you can maybe move up and be like, a CNC operator or something, think again. All that shit is networked now. CNC operator ain't even a thing anymore. Dude in the office draws up designs and whatever rando is in front of the machine loads the wood, pulls up the plan, and hits go. No skill required.

[Anonymous No.1645443]

>>1645354
first all, if you show up every single day and work, you will be appreciated.


european cabinets are pop in. everything is pre-drilled, holes match up, adjustments are made on the hinge/plate. someone runs the CNC machine and you're assembling with particle board (OSB). sometimes you'll have edgebanding to cover up the particle board

american cabinets are even more simpler because to have "play" with the frame. It doesn't have to be exact. just layout before you start.

measurements are often down to the 1/16th. if you're working with people who require 1/64th work for another shop.

[Anonymous No.1645504]

is the worst (working) contractor table saw better than the best job-site table saw?

[Anonymous No.1645510]

>>1645504
They both can be perfectly adequate, depends on the needs.

[Tennesseefag No.1645514]

Can I make money buying Ikea furniture, assembling it, and then selling it locally? Brainlet here

[Anonymous No.1645515]

>>1645504
Depends. A terrible contractor saw could be worse than a good jobsite saw. Like I said in the second post, it the features you need to worry about. They sell saws with cast iron tops at Harbor Freight. They aren't great but they are generally better than saws with aluminum or sheet steel tops. They also cost a lot more. There are also brands of higher-end saws that also use cast iron tops but they have better QC or thicker casting, etc. and make a better saw than what HF sells.

All in all, though, it is better to buy an old saw that is well made on the used market then it is to buy something new. Anything new at the same price point is going to be worse and anything that is as good is going to cost a lot more. Hell, companies used to make jobsite saws with cast iron tops. I don't think you can even get that feature anymore on a jobsite saw. I'd put picture related against any saw on the market today with an aluminum or sheet steel top. I've seen those cheap saws go out of square just from being in the sun a little too long.

[Anonymous No.1645524]

>>1645289
None of the stuff I said would signify any particular level of experience, so I don't get why you think I'm pretending anything

I'm not particularly skilled, I just carve a little bit, and over time have amassed a couple of woodworking tools, where my selection was mostly based around what would fit into my budget

There are plenty of types of knifes I do not know, which is why I asked for your recommendations, but I do know about my personal preferences, and I've helped a couple of people with their foray into basic carving/whittling, so I know what works for them

I really don't get why you care about the moras so much, you seem to be butthurt about the fact that others might like something you dislike
I have explained why I like them, imo they're cheap, decent knives, all you have said to criticize them is mention the fact that they're being hyped

[Anonymous No.1645536]

>>1645524
When I wrote those posts I was on hold to solve banking problems I should not have had to solve and being driven mad by the horribly distorted hold music and random messages about how important I was and it was really looking like I would have to hang up and go to work before I would get to someone that could help me, my mood was not the best. Either way, you made a silly broad generalization about chip carving knives out of ignorance and my response was not the best and less then informative.

The thin blade of the the knife I posted has some great advantages when whittling, you can press it in quite deeply to make a shoulder and split the wood down to it, very quickly and accurately hogging off waste, you can make tight deep cuts and just as easily do fine detail cuts. The quickly tapering tip means it has almost the full strength of the rest of the blade. The long slender handle gives you a great deal of leverage and control and registers in your hand, your fingers always know the orientation of the blade, you can keep your eyes on where the blade is going instead of the blade itself.

The only qualities I can find about the mora good for carving is the handle does not interfere with the common whittlers grip and it size means it can hog off material quickly. The harder steel of the laminated blade is nice for somethings but when combined with the long slender tapering blade you are left with a tip that has little to no soft iron backing up the hard core leaving a fragile tip, greatly limiting what sort of cuts it can make, its length makes it difficult to use the tip with good control unless you also use some sort of work holding.

[Anonymous No.1645806]

>>1645412
I have no professional woodworking experience. The job is actually making cabinets and then shipping them out flat packed. I will have to double check their cabinets and see what kind of joints they use. "fully custom mail order cabinets"

>>1645441
You make it sound pretty bleak. The job isn't mail order doors, but entire cabinets. They have a department dedicated to shipping and it wouldn't be too far off from my current job at Amazon. I have installed before. Well, actually, we just unloaded about 4 big box trucks full of finished cabinets into three story apartment buildings. I can safely say that I worked harder on that day than I have my entire life. My arms were like spaghetti for several days after that.

>>1645443
I have a really strong work ethic and don't skip any days. Work work all week long, punching that clock from dusk til dawn. I only said 64ths because it is greater than 16ths, guess it really isn't impressive though.

I think I need to look into the job a bit more

[Anonymous No.1645837]

>>1642661
i got to make a box and complete this by tomorrow, but don't have pieces big enough to just route out the cavity like in pic related.
should i stick with butt joints like i did with the dice tray or go for doing my first dovetails?

[Anonymous No.1645845]

>>1645806
What you describe sounds like pretty much any other manufacturing job (repetition), with some variation because custom dimensions being ordered. If it were me I'd just annually rotate positions at Amazon, broadening skillset and keeping an eye open for desired advancement opportunities. That's what i was gonna do at chewy but i got myself fired for proving a point.

[Anonymous No.1645846]

>>1645837
With that polyurethane glue you were using but joints will be strong enough, but if you have enough wood to risk a mistake, try a dovetail.

[Anonymous No.1645880]

>>1645845
There really isn't any upward mobility at Amazon. I mainly just scan boxes and build pallets. There are a few other things one can do there, but it all revolves around building pallets to be shipped to various Post Offices. All the positions pay the same, unless you get in a management position. But for those, you need a Bachelor's degree in anything, they don't care as long as you have that piece of paper. I've been there almost two years with no reviews, no raises, no opportunities, I am so burnt out on it. I would love if they fired me, but they won't because I work too hard and don't really rock the boat.
I don't think the repetitive nature of a manufacturing job would be so bad, allows you to get in the groove and just work. Plus, getting paid to learn something is always nice. I love woodworking, I just hope that this type of job is a good fit for me. I don't really care if I have to take a pay cut either, I just want to work somewhere where I feel appreciated.

[Anonymous No.1645899]

I have this computer cabinet that I moved by strapping it to an appliance dolly. After I moved it, I noticed that it wobbles now. Not that big of a deal. But now, it doesn't close properly.
If I somehow identify and fix the reason it wobbles, will that fix the problem of it not being able to close? It seems as if the left door is angled lower and the right door is angled upwards now.
>pic related

[Anonymous No.1645903]

>>1645880
>There are a few other things one can do there, but it all revolves around building pallets to be shipped to various Post Offices.
Have you tried inbound?
>All the positions pay the same, unless you get in a management position.
They don't even pay more for forklift operators?
>almost two years with no reviews, no raises, no opportunities
Fuck all of that.
>I don't think the repetitive nature of a manufacturing job would be so bad, allows you to get in the groove and just work. Plus, getting paid to learn something is always nice. I love woodworking, I just hope that this type of job is a good fit for me. I don't really care if I have to take a pay cut either, I just want to work somewhere where I feel appreciated.
Do it then. Godspeed, anon.
>>1645899
Top needs to move leftward. Tighten all connectors.

[Anonymous No.1646347]

>>1644276
>They are cheaper because they are not as good. Thinner castings, sloppier machining, less robust design, cheaper materials. Do they work? Yes. Does a Ryobi drill work? Yes. Does it work as well as a Milwaukee drill? No. Made by the same company though. Modern Stanley planes are about as good as their 'budget line' of planes they made back in the day. They were sold under the 'Handyman' name. You can get those for next to nothing.

You have this backwards. Lie Nielsen, Veritas, and such make things better than stanley ever did. I have seen and held both the former and old planes. My dad has a couple Lie Nielsens because he has an aversion to used tools and I've seen Veritas at a trade show, as well as trawled around flea markets, garage sales and antique stores.
Modern stanley sweetheart planes are roughly on the same level as they were in the late-50s to 60s, they're way better than the plastic-handled ones with cut features from the late 70s and on. Your current cheap big box store planes are what are equivalent to the handyman and other low end lines going back all the way into the 30s, both functionally and finish-wise.
The high end planes? Those are thick, heavy as heck, the wood on the totes and knobs are finished really well. Lie Nielsen includes better precise machining and it's set up for you, as well as other enhancements like the blade and body materials. Veritas makes entirely new plane designs compared to Stanley with different ergonomics and adjusters that some people love and others hate.
Old iron planes were not made to these tolerances at all. It's stupid to compare them as if they're in the same league. These new plane companies are making things of a similarly high quality to old factory-made infills.

[Anonymous No.1646368]

>>1646347
You have never had a bedrock series Stanley or modern sweetheart in your hands.

If you want to know what is really stupid it is that even the lightest Stanley casting is complete overkill for the job and insane tolerances offer nothing.

Also, veritas did not redesign or design anything, they just play with aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.1646378]

>>1646368
It's very possible I've held shitty examples of old planes due to being in the northeast US, or that you have a better sense of touch than me. But the base castings and other features of modern Stanley planes feel pretty similar to the time before Stanley went full in on the handyman game in thickness and heft. They may lose some weight due to some parts being aluminum and the REALLY old planes using rosewood and other dense exotics, sure. But they are functionally pretty damn good once tuned up properly. I admit to not recalling having held a bedrock, but a bedrock was not a standard plane. It was the higher end of stanley's offerings.

I agree that you don't need that much of a tolerance or anything, I was simply telling the other anon that the new stanleys aren't "worse", it's just that there's a more affordable higher tier available now compared to historically. You really only need-need a high degree of precision for a smoother if you're doing that sort of artisan work. If you are, you probably have the skills to make one yourself. The rest is just vanity.

Veritas's changes are mainly in the ergonomics of the tote and knob, the weight distribution, and the adjusters. There are also small grub limit screws for some features of different planes which you adjust like, once in your whole life.

[Anonymous No.1646385]

>>1642542
Yeh, get the one from armor tool tho

[Anonymous No.1646413]

Daily reminder to ignore purists and purist shills. Dewalt and Grizzly Jobsite Table Saws are perfect (albeit loud af) and plenty accurate. However if you want to go all out ignore all the delta unisaw shills and buy a Sawstop Industrial. Only retards and purists use manual powered planes, get yourself one of pic related instead. Use a plunge router to make mortises (or a mortiser), no chisels. Tenons? Use your table saw. Pocket Holes are the shit, don't shy away from them to make quick work of something. Fuck orbital sanders, belt sanders all the way. Japanese woodworking is superficial pussy boy meme shit, you want strong shit that's gonna last not no bullshit. Wear your PPE.

[Anonymous No.1646415]

>>1646413
I bet you make abysmal trash. Out of pallet wood

[Anonymous No.1646418]

>>1646415
Fuck off an go get YOUR upvotes cunts now

>>1646413
Respect you Getb Dickheads ok .. sorry ..

[Anonymous No.1646429]

>>1646418
Upvoted

[Anonymous No.1646433]

>>1642542
what is the style of clamp on the left called?

[Anonymous No.1646487]

>>1646413
Adding to this anon:

If you lack space and money: A drill, router and a jig saw with a fence can do a huge amount of tasks acceptably. Make a router table and jig saw table. Make a jig to hold either your belt sander or your drill with a big sanding disc for sanding the edges of parts.

If you chuck one of those angle grinder face carving discs up in a drill press and fix it properly it becomes an OSHA-nightmare substitute for a narrow stationary planer.

Handplanes are useful for jointing edges and other tasks, as well as achieving certain surface finishes even if you are not a purist. And for working without bothering the neighbors. But you only need a good smoother for that. Don't get a block plane. Do not get a block plane. Don't do it. It's not a good idea.

Not chisels, A chisel. 1/2"/13mm is what most use. In a lot of cases it's simpler to just take a chisel or a plane to some small thing rather than re-setup some other tool for a small cut.

Use dowels. If you need cheap dowels use bamboo skewers or chopsticks.

A lot of japanese woodworking is superficial because most of what came over into english is for carpentry not furniture, as in making pretty buildings and using trade secret joints from ass medieval eras. "The Complete Japanese Joinery" is like 60% house carpentry and nearly useless as a book for most people, though the remaining 40% gives more info on japanese tools than you will get reading magazines, blogs or watching english-language youtube. Japanese, Korean and Chinese furniture makers are cool and don't bullshit around making things that are strong, but you have to work to find information on them. Not watch weebs pretending to be naruto with their chisels.

[Anonymous No.1646603]

>>1646378
As I have said repeatedly, Stanley's castings have always been all over the place, tooling and molds wear and things get thinner and thicker, you can find this variation in casting thickness throughout Stanley's production. Perhaps this weekend I will post a picture of my 1920s #2 with a fairly recent #5, the 2 is far thinner, hell, it is thinner than my 9 1/2 and 60.

LN pretty much copied the Bedrock design, made a few tweaks but essentially a Bedrock.

I have no idea why the smooth plane would need higher tolerance, its a smooth plane not a CNC. It makes things flat and smooth, just like any other plane. Well, its not just like any other plane, it is more useful than most any other plane.

Ok, the grub screws, Veritas made one original non-aesthetic change, maybe, everything else they have done has well known precedents. I really hate those screws, had one of their shoulder planes for about a week, sent it back and went with LN.

[Anonymous No.1646640]

I did a thing. First time attempting a profile on an edge. Used a disc sander running from a compressor.

[Anonymous No.1646641]

>>1646640
And "on foot"

[Anonymous No.1646643]

>>1646641

[Anonymous No.1646690]

>>1646643
More information about this for my autism please.

[Anonymous No.1646709]

>>1646690
I took seven pieces of hardwood offcut from work. (oak, ash, walnut, beech, sapele, and iroko). Straight edged them into 32mm thick strips of varying widths. I then laminated them together with a cheap but effective resin based wood adhesive, clamped for 6 hours then left overnight to cure for good measure. The following day I planed my newly laminated board to a thickness of 25mm, and got to work designing a template (pic related - over 9000 hours in MS paint). I printed off the design on 6 pieces of a4 paper which I taped together and cut out as a template, drew around that and marked up the holes to be drilled for the trucks (hardware mounted on the underside of the board) to be bolted through. The shape I cut out with a jigsaw, then used an air powered disc sander to smooth out the final shape and add a round bevel to the edge. (this was done by hand as I Don't have experience with, or access to, a router right now. The finished board was then stained with a light "cypress", and a number of coats of uncoloured clear lacquer (also liberated from work) were applied to achieve the gloss look. Rolling hardware was bought used on ebay. Total cost of project; £24 incl. glue.

[Anonymous No.1646715]

>>1646709
Will add that most of this was a learning curve for me. Although I work with wood, I'm primarily a band saw operator. I decided to make this as a cheap way to get back on a skateboard for the first time since my teens, as apparently longboard cruising can be very therapeutic as a hobby.

[Anonymous No.1646740]

>>1646603
A smoothing plane is for imparting a level of surface finish if set properly. You just described using a small plane as a jack, not as a smoother. A smoother requires a mouth thin enough and a blade set correctly to cut the barest whiff of a shaving for smoothing the wood down. Some extremely finely set up planes, mostly specialty smoothers like english mitre planes, can even be used against the grain because of this and there is a planed finish used mostly in japanese woodworking which is water resistant to the point of beading drops up on the surface.

If you use film finishes on your wood it's unneeded because you essentially bond a layer of plastic onto the wood. For oil and wax finishes it greatly enhances the appearance and feel of panels and surfaces. You need a completely different plane setup for doing this on harder or softer woods though.

[Anonymous No.1646785]

>>1646740
>You just described using a small plane as a jack, not as a smoother.
No I didn't
>A smoother requires a mouth thin enough and a blade set correctly to cut the barest whiff of a shaving for smoothing the wood down.
Sometimes, depends on the wood and the grain.
>specialty smoothers like english mitre planes.
Mitre plane is not a smooth plane, it is a joinery plane for working end grain.
>can even be used against the grain because of this
And in spite of the low angle, it is not that hard to plane against the grain and a high angle plane with a chip breaker will do it better than any mitre plane.
>japanese woodworking which is water resistant to the point of beading drops up on the surface.
That has nothing to do with the act of planing, but burnishing. Japanese planes only make contact with the wood at three points, toe, mouth and heal, the rest of the sole is relieved, greatly increases the pressure on the wood since it is concentrated on three small spots instead of over the entire surface of the sole, this burnishes the wood at the same time as you plane, assuming you press down hard enough. Any small bodied plane will do this, it is just 'slightly' easier with the Japanese style.
>If you use film finishes on your wood it's unneeded because you essentially bond a layer of plastic onto the wood. For oil and wax finishes it greatly enhances the appearance and feel of panels and surfaces.
Oil and wax are film finishes, if it is a film finish or not depends on if you put on enough coats to cause a film to build on the surface.
>You need a completely different plane setup for doing this on harder or softer woods though.
You need a different plane setup for most every board, this is why plane makers go through the trouble of making planes easily adjustable.

Smoother does not need any greater tolerance than any other plane, you are getting caught up in planing tricks, and that is all they are, tricks.

[Anonymous No.1646843]

>>1646785
>Mitre plane is not a smooth plane, it is a joinery plane for working end grain.
That is its primary purpose, but it can be used as an excellent smoother as well.
>a high angle plane with a chip breaker will do it better than any mitre plane.
Only if the mouth is sufficiently tight, and that works better on hardwoods. Lower angles are better for doing this on softwoods. A mitre plane was just one example, there's several forms of planes used for smoothing.
>That has nothing to do with the act of planing, but burnishing.
No, there is a special plane used in japanese woodworking for imparting the planed finish with an exceptionally tight mouth. You cannot use just any plane to do it.

>Oil and wax are film finishes
No, poly, varnish, lacquer, and so on are film finishes. Again talking out your ass.

>you are getting caught up in planing tricks, and that is all they are, tricks.
It's not tricks, it's extremely specific use cases. Most people do not need a dedicated precision smoother. Most people will sand their work rather than using a plane and and assortment of custom-shaped scrapers to smooth and detail their project to such a degree. I said that before.
>You really only need-need a high degree of precision for a smoother if you're doing that sort of artisan work. If you are, you probably have the skills to make one yourself. The rest is just vanity.
>artisan work
Very few people do artisan work, and if they are they're either extremely old and retired or selling their work to multi-millionaires.

[Anonymous No.1646886]

>>1642232
asking here because I'm not sure where else to - is it worth putting in the money for higher quality tools right off the bat or can I start with second hand crap until the need for something more serious/powerful arises? what are the best/worst brands? I'm assuming milwaukee is one of the best and ryobi one of the worst.

[Anonymous No.1646919]

>>1646843
>but it can be used as an excellent smoother as well.
Sure if you like cramped hands from using a plane designed to used on its side.
>Only if the mouth is sufficiently tight
That depends on the wood and its grain. A low angle plane has little chip breaking ability, it lifts the grain and uses it like a lever, if the mouth is not sized exactly to the thickness of the shaving you are trying to take it will use this lever to tear the wood ahead of the blade. As the blade angle increases it breaks the chips sooner so they loose the ability to act as levers, a broken lever is a poor lever. As we reach 45 degrees this ability to lift the grain is greatly diminished, in the common woods the chip breaks readily and quickly, this will get you through most any straight grained wood where the runout is all in one direction, add in a properly tuned and set chip breaker and now we can get through a small amount of runout coming to the surface in the wrong way. As we advance beyond 45 degrees to 50 we start moving towards a scraping action, it is still primarily a slicing action but chips are half broken by the blades angle and the chip breaker finishes the job, we can get through most straight grained woods regardless of runout and tightness of mouth at this point. As we approach 60 degrees we get a good mix of scraping and slicing, chips are broken immediately and we can go through almost anything, but it is hard working pushing those high angle blades. Low angle planes are at their best on wild grain that is a mixture of short, long and end grain, like crotch wood and burls. Most of the woods used by the western wood worker are straight grained with runout mostly going one way, this is why the 45 degree blade with chip breaker and a wide mouth became standard back in the days of the wooden plane, it will get you through most woods and can still take an aggressive cut when needed.

tbc...

[Anonymous No.1646920]

cont.
> and that works better on hardwoods. Lower angles are better for doing this on softwoods
Which works best is more a function of how the wood splits and the flexibility of the wood more than anything. An easily splitting wood that is very bendy will create chips that make good levers since they do not break easily, they ride up the blade instead of breaking. These include woods like ash and softwoods, chipbreakers are almost a requirement with them and make life much easier, but a properly set throat and a low angle will do if you are in no rush.
>No, poly, varnish, lacquer, and so on are film finishes. Again talking out your ass.
Oils dry and become hard through polymerization, they become polymers, same thing as polyurethane, polyurethane just has a little more chemistry done to it to make that process happen quicker. We also perform some basic chemistry on oils to make them dry faster since straight raw oil takes months to naturally polymerize, we boil our linseed oil to help the process along and drastically reduce the dry time. Lacquer is a resin dissolved into a solvent. Varnish is a mixture of a resin, an oil (polymer) and a solvent. Wax is wax and has qualities of both resins and oils. Any finish that can be built up onto the surface of the wood to form a film is a film finish, so any of the above. Epoxy and the other modern resins are probably the only finishes that are as a rule film finishes, they can not soak into the wood and sit on the surface with few exceptions.
>It's not tricks
Sure it is. The Japanese have a special plane for everything, their tendency to relieve the area between mouth and toe and mouth and heal means the bearing surfaces wear very quickly which opens the mouth up wider, that combined with the labor intensive setup and tuning of their planes makes it sensible to have a plane per task, it extends the life of each plane.

[Anonymous No.1646921]

and the last bit.
>Very few people do artisan work, and if they are they're either extremely old and retired or selling their work to multi-millionaires.
More than you think. The second you start throwing words like 'artisan' around or start talking about special Japanese techniques the multi-millionaire either walks away or lowballs you when you start to talk costs, they largely do not care about the process and are more concerned about the end result. If such a person comes to you to have work done it means they have seen your work and know your ability, you do not need to sell yourself and if you try they will see it as trying to pad the bill and wring the rich guy for every dollar you can, you either let your work speak for itself or you lose the job. It is the middle class that worries about such phrases for the most part, they will hound you through the entire job, expect regular updates and pictures of you using special tools and techniques, they will want to show up and watch you work and on and on, fucking nightmare. You can do shit work as long as you jump through all the hoops they throw at you, rarely can you get away with that with the rich, you simply will not get paid if you do not deliver every bit of what you promised, they will not care if you shat it out or conjured up fairies to do the work for you, it just has to be exactly what they paid for. Most of the time you just get hired by an interior designer or architect and it is straightforward business, they give you a plan and you make it, you were chosen primarily because you have the ability, the time and are in the right price range for the project, you are just another faceless worker doing their part for a larger project, process means fuck all, again it is the end result that matters and general good business practices, on time, on budget, not being a pest will help greatly in keeping you in work.

But I am probably just talking out my ass.

[Anonymous No.1646942]

>>1646886
>is it worth putting in the money for higher quality tools
Depends. Sometimes the second-hand stuff is better than what you can buy. What kind of stuff are we talking here? If it is a cordless tool newer is almost always better. Corded hand tools, on the other hand, haven't changed much in 30 years. If it is a shop tool like a table saw or a drill press, you could get one from the 40's and it could be as good or better then one made today.

>what are the best/worst brands?
REALLY depends. Old Rockwell tools were mostly top tier. Newer ones are made by the people that make Worx and are crap. Porter-Cable was the gold standard of professional tools, now they are a mid brand between B&D and DeWalt. Old Milwaukee tools were made in the USA and overbuilt but some of their designs were... unique (check out the 'Sawzit'). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZXwXn_vO0M newer Milwaukee tools are Chinese and sometimes, just like with DeWalt, Skilsaw, and others, they are made to hit a price point and aren't that good. You have to research shit. Oddly, this is easier with older tools because they didn't change much. (picture related, made about 30 years apart but still sold at the same time). Meanwhile, newer tools often have one manufacturing run because component costs change and modern companies are very mindful of shit like that. They will redesign a tool to replace a 15 cent part with a 13 cent part and give it a new model number.

>I'm assuming milwaukee is one of the best and ryobi one of the worst.
Milwaukee and Ryobi are made by the same company, TTi, sometimes even in the same factory. Many companies have 2, 3 or more brands in the market selling the 'same' tools. Sometimes it is just a paint change so they can fill in missing tools in the lineup (picture again related) for people who only buy one brand. Other times the tools are completely different designs and are meant to meet a price point. Beware 'price point' tools.

[Anonymous No.1646943]

What's the best way to cut 1/8in finger joints without a table saw? Can I do it with my circular saw?

[Anonymous No.1646944]

>>1646942
>milwaukee and ryobi share parent companies
well then. what about makita? I'm looking specifically for a circular saw but I don't like the idea of spending $225 on one when I can get a makita 6 piece set for $600 because I'll eventually need those tools too. I could be wrong on the value of those tool sets, though.

thanks for your help.

[Anonymous No.1646947]

>>1646944
I use Makita, I think they're alright. Tbh all the big brands are similar, you just have to marry one because of batteries

[Anonymous No.1646981]

I think I have the right shade - but how do I get the stain darker? Do I need to buy a different darker color? Can I keep restaining after it has dried?

I’m aware that different wood / grain / sanding roughness can all impact the darkness , and also aware that I’ll probably never get an exact stain match. But I’d still like to get closer than where I’m at now.

[Anonymous No.1647029]

/wwg/, I need some basic help joining two 2x4s together using deck screws. I notice when I screw the wood together there's a teeny tiny little gap between them, and in the gap I can see the screw. The size of the gap seems to be about a single thread of the screw.

I predrilled holes through both pieces, cleaned each hole out so the surface was smooth, then drove the screw through them while holding the pieces down with as much force as I could with one hand, but I still got a gap.

How do I drill the pieces together so that the wood surface actually touches?

[Anonymous No.1647067]

>>1646944
I'm not saying that Milwaukee makes nothing but crap, I'm just saying you have to be careful because a lot of modern tool makers are selling to hit price points. One of the ways they do that is by using different brands for different segments. Many people here won't touch a B&D or Ryobi tool but they are all over DeWalt and Milwaukee even though they are sometimes the exact same tool under the shell. Marketing is powerful.

>well then. what about Makita?
Research, research, research. Makita makes some great stuff but they also have some turds.

> I'm looking specifically for a circular saw
Great news! Circular saws haven't just much in 80 years. Just get a vintage Skilsaw (picture related) and you will be set for life. Make sure it is a worm-drive, which was their heavy-duty line, and that it sill has the guard and a grounded plug. The only difference between that and a modern Skilsaw is they were made in America and are heavier. The Model 77 is their standard 7¼ inch blade and they made millions of them.

>>1646943
You could do it on a radial arm saw but only like me and three other people on this board still use them. A router and router table could also do it. As for the circular saw, just make a DIY table saw out of one. Plenty of instructions online. Super easy if you have a Workmate.

>>1647029
Plane the boards so they are flat.
Drill a larger pilot hole in the board closest to the screwhead so it pulls tight.
Use a screw with a shank (the part of the shaft below the head without threads) that is the same length as the 2x4

[Anonymous No.1647070]

>>1647067
>>1647029
Plane the boards so they are flat.
Drill a larger pilot hole in the board closest to the screwhead so it pulls tight.
Use a screw with a shank (the part of the shaft below the head without threads) that is the same length as the 2x4

Just to be clear, those are three different things you can try to do what you want, not three steps you must take.

[Anonymous No.1647245]

>>1646919
>cramped hands
Could sure, but it will still work.
>angle explanation
I understand and agree with most of this, yet you neglected to specify that for smoothing, softwoods will get a better finish from a low angle and neglect to account pressure the front of the mouth exerts on the wood. A tight mouth, double iron set extremely close, and properly sharpened blade will make an excellent surface. As well, a double iron became standard because it made it possible to produce decent wooden planes using factory labor. A tight mouth, double iron plane was extremely expensive to produce and without a low labor cost it was more economical to use a single iron with a tight mouth.
>>1646920
>Splitting-type wood explanation
No, for smoothing softwoods you want the blade angle sub-45 not simply a low angle jack meme plane sharpened to have basically the same angles. For smoothing, only smoothing.
>film finish
While you're "technically correct" it's tangential to the point I was making, which is that the planed surface doesn't mean shit if it's behind several coats of a hardened film which obscures the finer details of the wood.
>Japanese have a plane per task
So do westerners. They also either remake the dai, patch the mouth closed or convert it to a different plane when it's worn too much. The tricks are grifter manufacturers and pop woodworkers selling shit to idiots by treating japanese woodworking as if it's some sort of high level magic.
>>1646921
>more than you think
>proceeds to list contracted work for designers and "results matter"
Let me try to rephrase: The people doing artisanwork are either extremely old and retired, only doing their work as a master-hobbyist now for fun or to supplement their retirement. Or they're part of the "art world" and on the same level as the designers and architects you described, not the sort of guy treated as "the help" to make some designer's avant-garde thing.

[Anonymous No.1647308]

>>1647245
>softwoods will get a better finish from a low angle
Because it is not true. Would not be surprised if people developed that idea after planing construction grade lumber, but that has more to do mill practices than anything.
>and neglect...
because I was not writing a dissertation on plane mechanics, I offered a practical explanation that would get most anyone through the vast majority of woods.
>a double iron became standard because it made it possible to produce decent wooden planes using factory labor.
Not even remotely true, wooden planes with double irons made by single man/small shops were the standard in the US right up to the rise of Stanley and continued on for awhile after, double iron became standard because it was worth the added cost, plain and simple, its added cost was far offset by the savings in labor.
>A tight mouth, double iron plane was extremely expensive to produce and without a low labor cost it was more economical to use a single iron with a tight mouth.
Not really, the only price difference between the double iron and single iron plane is the cost of the chip breaker, which is the cheapest bit of metalwork on the plane. Low angle planes were specialty tools for working complex grain and end grain, such work is very hard on a wooden sole, so metal came into favor here for those that worked such grain often. Now the low angle plane is mostly a meme, still useful but mostly used out of ignorance.
>obscures the finer details of the wood.
Polyurethane is far clearer than any natural oil or wax and therefore obscures less of the woods detail. Oils and waxes tend to accentuate it, this has nothing to do with 'film' finishes or being 'technically correct.'
>So do westerners
You have no idea about the autistic specialty tool obsession of the Japanese wood worker, there is no comparison, they have almost as many types of smooth plane as they do characters in their language.

[Anonymous No.1647311]

>>1647245
>Or they're part of the "art world"
Completely different world than architects and interior designers, the art world is just a place they go shopping, it is home depot or ikea.
>not the sort of guy treated as "the help" to make some designer's avant-garde thing.
They would go to the art world for avant garde things. You take the jobs and show you can do it and do it well, you help them understand what is and is not possible with the materials they choose, help them achieve what they envision for the larger project and if you do it well, they give you more business and trust you more on design ability, eventually they start giving you full control on pieces and better jobs. It is how the world works, always has, if you do not take those jobs as the hired help you will never get anywhere and if you do not swallow your artistic pride and continue taking them you will go stagnant and become dated. The jobs as the hired help expose you to new styles and techniques to incorporate into your own, figuring out how to work around the ignorance of the designer presents problems to solve that you would never encounter on your own designs, they force you to develop new methods and techniques which further your own style. Good luck with your artistic integrity, but I suspect you do not pay the bills with it so you can afford to be a dreamer.

[Anonymous No.1647360]

>>1647308
>Because it is not true.
http://planetuning.infillplane.com/html/shaving_formation.html
>I offered a practical explanation that would get most anyone through the vast majority of woods.
I wasn't. I was stating the edge cases for when you need such things. These are exceptions that show the ONLY times you need it, if your goals are these edge cases, and that other times it's completely unnecessary. I keep stating this and you ignore it.
>Not even remotely true
http://brfinewoodworking.com/wooden-plane-throat-geometry/
>Now the low angle plane is mostly a meme
I agree, below a certain pitch it has inferior wear characteristics. Low angle is really only useful in block planes for installers and carpenters because it fits in your toolbelt. No one makes a proper softwood-focused low angle plane outside boutique makers and Japan.

>and therefore obscures less of the woods detail. Oils and waxes tend to accentuate it
It has to do with it yes, there is no point in putting in the work to get a good surface finish on the base wood material if you're going to have to sand and coat it after. It makes no sense to. Even just coating it negates the work you did because it's through the film layer. Oils and waxes show and allow touching of the surface finish you make with the plane - the TEXTURE of the wood. Smoothing to that level with a plane means you don't sand after because that's wasting work. It'd be like sanding for finish after you used a buffing wheel.

>You have no idea about the autistic specialty tool obsession of the Japanese wood worker, there is no comparison
A traditional japanese woodworker doesn't sand his work so he has a lot of small planes for getting into convoluted areas. The comparison is more like to a luthier today or a traditional woodworker from several centuries ago. Plus that's only a few of them. It's like if you got an impression of "western woodworkers" from only watching paul sellers and roy underhill - you are getting a caricature.

[Anonymous No.1647371]

>>1647311
>Good luck with your artistic integrity
I never said I have any. I find those people to be insufferable. You completely misunderstand the purpose of my responding to you and the point of the initial posts.
There are cases for precise planes. The cases are super autistic and not at all efficient unless you are doing it for just your own hobby, are making "art" or people want to impress their friends by saying how hand-done a thing is.
The use-cases are there, you do NOT need a highly precision milled and ground plane if you are not doing that work. You would not buy a 26" DoAll bandsaw if you don't need such a gigantic cutting capacity, you would not buy a surface grinder to flatten the backs of your plane irons when sharpening them. Why would you buy such a precisely-made hand plane if you are not actually doing work where that precision matters? The only reason is to make it a luxury purchase, like putting nice rims on your car.

[Anonymous No.1647396]

Not into woodworking other than some rudimentary box making for a few electronics projects, but just wanted to say nice thread, lots of good info here

[Anonymous No.1647476]

I have a question for all you wood working contractors.

I'm starting a bar and want to build a decent looking hard-wood bar with a sturdy surface. It will be no longer than 10' x 4' at the surface. Probably going to be around 46" tall.

Could someone help me estimate the costs of building this? Supplies, Labor, Install, Prep Work, etc.

[Anonymous No.1647556]

Anyone ever fiddled around with one of these dirt cheap lathes made for prayer beads? Im wanting to try my hand at turning rings/pens/chess sets and other small things but I cant really convince myself to buy a $200 machine that Im only going to be able to sell for $100 if I decide I dont like it.

[Anonymous No.1647560]

I want to try my hand at bird carving. From what I've read, I need to use a band saw and make cuts in my wood from a side view and a top view.
I have a band saw, but the first time I used it, I got the blade stuck and bent it during my extraction attempt. Can I just unbend the band or should I just buy a replacement band? I don't know the exact size of the machine, but is there anything specific I should look for in a band? I was probably just going to buy one from Harbor Freight if they have the right size. Any recommendations on which wood to use?

[Anonymous No.1647561]

>>1647556
You could make a small lathe and try it out that way to see if you even like turning wood before you invest in a "real" lathe.

[Anonymous No.1647568]

>>1646981
If I wanted an exact match, I would sand and stain the entire project. You could do multiple layers to make it darker. I don't know if there is anything you can add to the stain to make it darker. Probably too late of a reply now.

[Anonymous No.1647578]

>>1647556
Buy one for $100 from someone who bought it for $200. You say it can be done.

[Anonymous No.1647588]

>>1647578
Depreciation on used tools is usually 50%, I would buy one used if there was one in my area.
>>1647561
The ones like the picture I posted are like $40, I doubt I could build one cheaper. Im just curious if anyones used one, assuming I use decent tools Im curious if they at least work.

[Anonymous No.1647599]

>>1647476
$10,000 USD.

[Anonymous No.1647624]

>>1647360
>http://planetuning.infillplane.com/html/shaving_formation.html
Nothing about that says you must have a low angle to get a fine finish on softwood, which you do not. It is not hard to get a very fine finish on any decently cut stick of softwood with a standard #4, there is more than one way to get a good finish on softwoods with plane alone. Still not true.
>http://brfinewoodworking.com/wooden-plane-throat-geometry/
This is talking about how the double iron made it easier to mass produce since you can cut out the abutments with a saw instead of with chisel and float, despite it being a less than ideal geometry, it also shows the more desirable geometry which the small shops stuck too for their double iron planes. This only explains why they became standard on wooden body massed produced planes, they were already common and standard kit on the planes by the small shops, which there were a great number of, especially on the east coat, this is not why the double iron became standard industry wide, at most it is just the evolution of the cheap wooden plane. Still not true.
>TEXTURE of the wood
You can get that texture with poly, you can get the very same feel and color, it is not hard. Us a thinner poly or thin, or just don't use the cheap home center shit that is designed to build up on the surface in one coat. Such a thin finish will result in the wood being easily damaged, it is not suitable for all things, and some people like shiny, what does it matter? Oil and wax are still just as much a film finish as poly, if it is a film is completely dependent on application.
>I never said I have any
Nor did I.
>You completely misunderstand the purpose of my responding to you
No, I did not, you made some silly comments stated as factual and I addressed them.

[Anonymous No.1647625]

>>1647476
No way to answer that with the information given, far to vague, design the bar or have someone design it for you, take that to furniture makers/cabinet shops/etc and ask for a quote, they will tell you what it will cost if they want your work.

[Anonymous No.1647657]

>>1647624
>Nothing about that says you must have a low angle to get a fine finish on softwood
It's not "a" fine finish, it's a specific type of surface finish.
>this is not why the double iron became standard industry wide, at most it is just the evolution of the cheap wooden plane
That is the standardization industry-wide, because it made planes more widely producible when prior you had either rudimentary assembly-line production with skilled workers, custom work by planemakers or shopmade ones. And it's easier and cheaper to do the single iron with a tight mouth vs a double iron with the tight mouth. A cap iron was still a significant amount of money back when nails were expensive. Balancing this with faster, cheap production to make decent planes works.
>what does it matter?
It's a specific hard to get finish that requires you to use a very particularly set plane in a particular manner and there's no point to using a finish like poly or a lacquer over it, because it defeats the point of doing all that work. French polish is another luxury finish that is more well-known.
>some silly comments stated as factual and I addressed them.
And I'm responding, because you aren't actually address the core of what I said and are getting caught up in the dissecting of minutia.

It doesn't matter what you think alternate paths to a specific finish are. You might as well be arguing that HNT Gordon planes shouldn't exist because working cranky tropical hardwoods with a handplane is masochistic and stupid and people should use machines or just stain/veneer if they want the look.

[Anonymous No.1647658]

hello /wwg/, /k/ here. I'm looking at making some furniture for my rifle and had some specific questions to that end. What hardwood is best at
>heat dispersion
>being light in weight
>turning purple when I stain or dye (or both) it

[Anonymous No.1647663]

>>1647658
>four loko pistol
Its a miracle you havent succumbed to natural selection.

[Anonymous No.1647680]

>>1647568
Thanks I appreciate you getting back to me. I mixed in a little bit of black with the stain, and went over it again - it's not an exact match, but it's close enough that I can shelve it as a project for a bit. Before it had a glaring "nail polish remover" spill on it.

Unfortunately, When I was doing my testing - I was sloppy with my sanding, since I just wanted to make sure the stain would take. I can see now that I have swirls - some of which drank up the darker version of the stain. So I have to resand the right side.

Good lesson for me on not rushing things. which I always do :)

[Anonymous No.1647689]

>>1647657
By the time Sandusky and a few others started making planes this way the steel plane was on the market and the transitional was doing quite well. The new steel planes were very competitive, a quick look at some old catalogs show the #4 being $1.75 and the 604 Bedrock at $2.15, priced right around Ohio Tools best wooden smooth at $2.00, the #35 transitional smooth being just $1.35, all had double irons from the start. Simple fact was that the wooden plane had its days numbered by then, it was a last ditch effort to make them cheap enough to be competitive with the likes of Stanley, which they could not possibly do. You have to ignore too much of US plane history to accept that explanation to be what standardized the double iron, everything goes against it. Ohio seems to have stuck to making their planes bodies in the old way and not in the wedge destroying Sandusky way, so the Sandusky would have been cheaper yet, and still could not compete, they did manage to survive a couple years longer than Ohio though. Ohio may have gone cheap on cutting the abutments eventually, I have seen a few such planes, but the bodies could not be certainly identified, only the irons. Finding a pair of catalogs from two makers from roughly the same year meant I had go to 1902, but it shows the trend and it is not hard to find evidence of the prices in the mid to late 19c when this was all going down if you care to dig.

I have never been talking about the Japanese planes or techniques other than the couple direct comments I made regarding them which were far in the minority, just saying you do not need a fine mouth or low angle to get a good finish on softwoods, as you have repeatedly stated. I am just providing full and accurate information to your inaccurate statements.

Either way, you clearly know more about this stuff than I do.

[Anonymous No.1647692]

>>1647658
Wood is a terrible conductor of heat, so do not expect any heat dispersion. Any light colored hardwood will do you well, aspen and alder are both light in weight and color so they take stains well. If you do not need solid purple you can dig about through the poplar boards and find some with some nice purple grain.

There are fairly purple woods as well, but I do not know of any that could be considered light in weight.

[Anonymous No.1647746]

>>1647658
check out purplehart wood, probably expensive enough for your taste

[Anonymous No.1647782]

>>1647746
>>1647692
Thanks, I've actually got a bit of purple heart I was planning on using for the grip.
I'll look into some aspen and alder. I know of a poplar that fall recently so I might go with that.
>>1647663
its a /k/ meme

[Anonymous No.1647819]

>buy a tablesaw off Craigslist
>Fence isn't perfectly straight
What are my best solutions for a new fence? Just buy one? Would prefer to make but not sure how to get things straight with this fence.

[Anonymous No.1647847]

>>1647819

Assuming the fence is warped..
If it were mine, I'd probably try to clamp it in a vice and bend it as straight as I could, then bolt a sacrificial board to it and plane it flat.

That's assuming the fence and rails are nice enough to fix, if not I'd get a whole new fence kit and replace it all. I see one on Rockler for $240.

If the fence is just not parallel to the blade, it just needs adjustment.

[Anonymous No.1647851]

>>1647847
Warped, it's about 1/32" to the right in the middle and fine on the ends. Just a nice little ) shape. Very subtle but noticable.

[Anonymous No.1647885]

>>1647851
If everything on the fence works and it stays square to the blade at the ends you can just make a wooden sacrificial fence that just sets down over the old fence with a nice tight friction fit.

[Anonymous No.1648012]

Is buying used power tools worth not getting the warranty?

[Anonymous No.1648038]

>>1648012
depends on how good the warranty was...lifetime, free shipping, transferable, etc.. how often will a drill or circular saw break down?

[Anonymous No.1648212]

>>1648012
I would say it depends on if you are capable of accurately assessing the condition of a used tool. If you have some experience and can give a tool a good check over to make sure it is in decent shape, used tools can be a great way to go, if you can not you are just gambling and new tools may be worth thinking about. If you do go with used tools, you will likely end up with the occasional lemon, so factor that into your costs.

It is also worth considering your time, you may end up driving all over town checking out used tools that you do not even end up buying, it is nice to be able to walk into a store with its dozens of options right there to choose from and be done with it nice and quick.

I have bought a good number of used tools and used to only buy used, but I hit the point that I realized I would rather spend my time working wood instead of hunting down and fixing up tools, still grab the odd tool to fix up, nice to have one or two project tools sitting about for when the mood strikes.

[Anonymous No.1648559]

>>1646413
>Fuck orbital sanders
Dead wrong.

>jobsite table saws
Yeah, they're good. They're not as good as a dedicated shop table saw. Good shop saws have and will continue to outlive them.

[Anonymous No.1648565]

>>1646715
>cruising
Sounds nice. The big rubber wheels do feel like gliding when you're used to hard.

That board looks too sweet to ride. Save it for display and get some ply pressed to shape and griptaped.

[Anonymous No.1648569]

>>1647782
Purple heart is very hard. Keep that in mind when tooling it. It's beautiful and expensive per volume.

Maple for example would take any dye you choose while giving good grain patterns and durability.

[Anonymous No.1648573]

>>1648569
Most of the maples are not lightweights and the lightweight varieties tend to be specialty woods. There are a few of the lightweight maples that are not too difficult to source, box elder comes to mind, but still heavier than alder, aspen and poplar.

[Anonymous No.1648601]

>>1644419
>>1645194
>>1645245

So, a decent carving knife and a chisel should cover me, right?
And thanks for the advice! You guys just saved me from buying those ''tools''.

[Anonymous No.1648611]

>>1648601
As good of place as any to start out, certainly better than one of those cheap sets. Put 100 or so hours in on them, by then you will be quite handy with them and will know what sort of chisels or knives you will need for the work you want to do, just don't give up because you do not have the "proper" chisel or knife, figure out how to make do by adjusting your technique and or design, you Wil be a much better carver for it.

[Anonymous No.1648642]

So Ive just returned home from Harbor Freight with a Central Machinery 10"x18" wood lathe. After researching for the last couple months I landed on this one for around $225, supposedly its a pretty good first lathe. However now Im in search of a good 3 jaw chuck to use with it, and Im curious where you guys would recommend shopping for a cheapish chuck. Im not particularly looking to spend hundreds on a chuck for such a cheap lathe so I was hoping to find a half decent one for less than $100 or so. Ive already looked at Grizzly and they seem to have some good options but I figured Id source some other opinions before buying.

[Anonymous No.1648653]

>>1648642
What sort of things are you planning to do? Most of what I see wood turners doing with 3 jaw chucks can be done just as well with a much cheaper faceplate or between centers of you but in a little forethought.

[Anonymous No.1648663]

>>1648653
Pretty much anything anyone would do, bottle openers, pens, chess pieces, basically knick knacks and gifts until I have the experience to turns bowls and the more fun stuff, at which point Ill actually pay out for a good 4 jaw.

[Anonymous No.1648685]

>>1648663
Bowls work just fine on face plates, they were done on face plates for ages without issue, everything else you list can be done between centers or with a screw chuck. I would start with those, can do a shitload right there for half the cost of a cheap 3 jaw. Save your pennies for the good 4 jaw when you feel ready if you stop feel the need.

[Anonymous No.1648687]

>>1648685
>>1648653
>these poor people literally can't think of a way to justify a $100 chuck

[Anonymous No.1648689]

>>1648685
Fair enough thanks.

Random additional question, curious if you have any insight. Im seeing in a number of videos people using double sided tape to stick their piece blank to a waste block thats mounted to the faceplate. Is there a specific type/brand of double sided tape made for woodworking or is it just standard outdoor foam tape?

[Anonymous No.1648692]

>>1648689
Get "carpet tape" at any hardware store. The shit is a fiberglass matrix with some unimaginably tough adhesive on it. Wonderful for this stuff, although I'm still scared of the idea of using tape for turning.

[Anonymous No.1648694]

>>1648692
Well most of the videos still use the live center on the tailstock, it just looks like a good way to mount something to the faceplate without having to work around having holes in whatever you're doing.
>>1648687
Ah well thanks for the insight Mr. Money.

Do me a favor, go ahead and drop your cell number in here, Ill get in contact, and you can just go ahead and send me a good chuck since you're so unimaginably wealthy.

[Anonymous No.1648695]

>>1648694
Just use wood glue and trim off your extension later.

[Anonymous No.1648697]

>>1648695
Not sure if Im patient enough to wait for the glue to dry everytime but in all honesty I didn't think of that so its still another good idea.

[Anonymous No.1648701]

>>1648689
Carpet tape works, I know some trust it enough without the center, same with glue, i dont, but once you have a sizeable piece fly off over your shoulder just missing your face, you get a little skittish.

Face plates have one huge advantage over 3 and 4 jaw chucks, you can unmount the piece and know you will be able to get it back on, nice to be able to let work rest for a bit or just set it aside when you are not sure where you are going on a piece. With the chuck, a bowl can easily change shape enough to never go securely back into the chuck.

The biggest advantage on the chicks is when you are turning smaller things of wood that likes to split, both centers and screw chucks fail there, jawed chucks do quite well.

[Anonymous No.1648707]

>>1648701
Ive had a table saw throw something back at me hard enough that Id be worried about just using tape or glue at speed before getting a piece thrown over my shoulder. Thanks for the wisdom though, I suppose it does make more sense to just start with the faceplate, maybe a drill chuck and just go all in on a good 3/4 jaw should I ever decide I need it.

[Anonymous No.1649037]

>>1647851
>>1647819
See:
>>1647885
this is the correct option outside using engineer's blue and a scraper to bring it back to flat, which is way more work than just slapping a board on it. The need to buy a whole new fence is to replace an older more-fussy system.

>>1648697
Use (a strong) hot glue and use a heatgun to seperate it after. Stanley Duomelt is surprisingly a very good one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu8sJBctzFc

[Anonymous No.1649060]

Where does everyone source wood for turning? Ive found a few sites and sellers from Etsy but the shipping is either ridiculous or the wood isn't dry.

[Anonymous No.1649066]

>>1649060
I use the small local mills and a local hardwood yard for most of my wood. We got an old guy local that went into the business as a hobby for retirement, buys logs from all over the world and mills/dries them, great selection and prices. The hardwood yard is pretty good for common sizes, expensive if you want a big slab and you are buying sight unseen since they are not going to order it until you drop the cash, but they do a pretty good job and you generally get exactly what you order quality wise. The local mills are great for the species that grow within a few hundred miles of here, everything is rough sawn but cheaper then anywhere else.

[Anonymous No.1649259]

Started attempting my first turnings today on the HF lathe, and honestly I cant help but feel like Im doing something wrong. I got a good deal on some supposedly good carbide tools so Ive been using those, tool rest about 1/4 of an inch away from the piece as the lathe manual says, sitting at center of rotation or slightly above it. Im getting alot of chattering and squealing coming from the tool. Seems like its bouncing off the wood a lot and it sounds like a dull bandsaw blade. Am I doing this horribly incorrect or is this normal?

[Anonymous No.1649280]

>>1649259
Is the tool actually sharp? How big of a bite are you taking? What kind of wood is it and what is the HP of the motor? You are probably wanna have at least 3/4th HP for a lathe that large unless you want to be taking tiny ass passes forever.

Remember, many tool motors, especially Chinesium motors, are overrated. Record the amps and use an Amp/Volt/Watt calculator to find the actual watts. Divide that number by 745 (watts in one horsepower) and then multiply that by 0.8 (most Chinesium motors are about 80% efficient at best) to get the real horsepower of the motor.

[Anonymous No.1649282]

>>1649259
Oh, and also:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=5377

[Anonymous No.1649288]

>>1649280
Lathe is advertised as 1/2 HP, its only a 10x18 lathe though, I was under the impression that isn't very big. At that I was just practicing on a dowel, going at 1600RPM. The tools definitely have an edge to them, Im quite new though so I cant really compare to anything, reviews on these tools say they are good though. Ive been reading around a bunch of guides about tool rest position and angle of attack. Ive gotten a few different opinions on carbide tools, those being tool rest at center of rotation or slightly above, tool completely horizontal, or the tool being slightly downwards. Im not taking large cuts by any means, I read that carbide tools are easier to learn but not as capable at cutting so I assumed you take very shallow cuts.

[Anonymous No.1649336]

>>1649288
1/2hp should be fine, you will run into some issue if you try and turn a 10x18 hunk of rock maple, but it is enough to do some decent sized bowels, you will notice the lack of power mostly when doing things like roughing out or knocking off the square corners, good sharp chisels are more important, you still have more power than most treadle lathes and probably all spring poles, and look at the shit people manage with those.

Every wood and every tool is different regarding angle of attack, you just need to experiment with things and figure it out. I have never used carbide tools, so I can not offer much, start out taking tiny little nips to find the right angle for the tool/wood combination and the right rest height, just takes some time to experiment.

I miss having a lathe.

[Anonymous No.1649405]

>>1649259
>>1649280
>>1649336
I have used a variety of wood and metal lathes, in schools and under competent supervision.
I have never enjoyed using a wood lathe, The vibration hurts my wrists and makes my hands ache long before I get results. Sharp tools, adjusted rest, asking the owner to check technique.

I am not petite, and use sawzalls and chainsaws no problem.

[Anonymous No.1649430]

/wwg/ this mighy be a dumb question,
Could i take a bunch of unbacked wood veneer and glue it together to make my own laminate, or should I use thicker peices?

[Anonymous No.1649439]

>>1649282
>What life used to be like

[Anonymous No.1649469]

>>1649439
You can make your life like that by getting a wife and putting a lathe and drill press in your living room.

[Anonymous No.1649589]

>>1642542
When did /diy/ stop going autistic over pocket holes?

Also, just use any number of better joinery and don't waste your time or money

[Anonymous No.1649606]

>>1649405
Your supervision was probably not all that competent and your grip was probably much too tight, no need to strangle the tool and you should not be using your wrists much, more the entire arm. The only time there should be any vibration is when bringing the stock into round.

>>1649430
You can. The thinner the layers the tighter the curve you can glue it up into and the stronger and more stable it is, but it is more expensive, gluing it up is a bitch and time consuming. Thicker can not be put up into as tight of curves and you loose some strength and stability, but it is cheaper, quicker and glue up is a hell of a lot less of a headache. Either methods will get your an end result that is stronger and more stable than a solid board of equal size, assuming your glue up is decent, generally we only bother going with stuff as thin as veneer for laminates when we need great strength, like in a skateboard deck.

>>1649589
>When did /diy/ stop going autistic over pocket holes?
It comes and goes in phases, a few anons buy a jig and make a pile of furniture that does not last even a year. In that time between completion and failure, they are more or less insufferable, spouting the virtues of the pocket hole and mocking all that use any other method, they always go silent after a month or two, I can not confirm this but I assume it coincides with their furniture crumbling.

[Anonymous No.1649818]

Need more turning tools but Im a cheap motherfucker. Is there a reason the tools are made to accept a specific tip or can I throw a 12mm circular insert on the 15mm square tool?

[Anonymous No.1649822]

>>1649818
I have some spares if you are willing to pay shipping. Hold on I'll take a pic.

[Anonymous No.1649825]

>>1649818
Wait are you looking for metal turning tools? The spares I have are for wood turning.

[Anonymous No.1649827]

>>1649822
>>1649825
Thanks for the gesture but I actually already have the tips, top rated on amazon is a pack that includes all 5 of the most used type. Im mainly just curious if theres a reason the tools are milled in a way that they usually only take 1 type of insert.

[Anonymous No.1649838]

>>1648559
More like dead right, orbital sanders are trash in comparison to a belt, brush, drum, or mop sander

>>1649589
You ain't wasting time or money fool, pocket holes have their place only reason people are sometimes hesitant to use them is because you fucking purist shills keep spouting nothing but bullshit

>>1649606
>It comes and goes in phases, a few anons buy a jig and make a pile of furniture that does not last even a year

Not everyone builds their furniture out of mdf and particle board fuck boy

[Anonymous No.1649860]

>>1649838
>Not everyone builds their furniture out of mdf and particle board fuck boy
The ones that use pocket hole jigs do.

[Anonymous No.1649892]

>>1649606
>veneer for laminates
veneer is actually what I was hoping to use. If I were to use something like curly maple veneer, would the tiger stripe pattern show through in the finished/stained project?

[Anonymous No.1649903]

>>1649892
Sure, but just use the figured wood for the outer layers, normal boring grained veneer will be just fine for the inner layers and will save you a decent amount of money.

[Anonymous No.1649905]

>>1649838
>fucking purist shills keep spouting nothing but bullshit
The problem with pocket hole joinery is that they only have good strength in pure compression and tension, the second shear forces are put into the mix the small diameter of the screws put a sizeable splitting force onto the wood. Pure compression and tension is not common to encounter in the furniture world, there is almost always some if not a good amount of shear in the mix. If one really wants to avoid joinery dowels are far stronger and their larger diameter decreases that splitting force when shear forces get strong, the splitting force is further decreased by the fact that the dowels are bonded to the wood with glue. You loose the self clamping quality of the pocket holes, but you gain a good deal of strength and a doweling jig can do a great deal that the pocket hole jigs can not dream of.

>>1649838
>Not everyone builds their furniture out of mdf and particle board fuck boy
MDF actually solves many of the issues with pocket joints, it can glue edge to edge very well with good strength which greatly reduces the effects of shear forces and the lack of grain means splits do not spread as readily as they do in solid wood.

The one place that pocket holes really outshine all else is in face frames/moldings/frames which feature butt joints, far simpler and even stronger than the alternatives at keeping those butts tight, but this is what the kreg jig was developed for, but the jig is not needed, people cut pocket holes with a chisel for ages before that patent showed up, it is a surprisingly simple bit of chisel work in most woods.

[Anonymous No.1649913]

What went wrong? How can it be fixed?

[Anonymous No.1650146]

>>1649905
>You loose the self clamping quality of the pocket holes, but you gain a good deal of strength and a doweling jig can do a great deal that the pocket hole jigs can not dream of.

This is where you fucking shills die
>muh strength
Apparently it's impossible to get it through your thick skulls that no one is saying that pocket holes are any stronger than any other joint but it is strong enough for most shit, even furniture. With that being said, pocket holes are probably the second fastest way to join two pieces of wood together, short of just nailing or screwing shit in. Its ratio of speed, convenience, and strength is second to none.

[Anonymous No.1650154]

>>1650146
>This is where you fucking shills die
I offered the positives and negatives and gave examples of where they do well and even outdo the other options, you just keep acting like there is no point in using anything but pocket holes, think if anyone is shilling here, it is you.

>Its ratio of speed, convenience, and strength is second to none.
Sure, but the strength is greatly lacking, first link google spat out.
https://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/pockethole.html
99 pounds average to the joint breaking, you get another 10 pounds if you glue, but that end grain to long grain glue joint is going to only last a few years before seasonal movement breaks it down. 100 pounds is really not much weight considering that things like legs and aprons act as levers and greatly increase mechanical advantage, a large and heavy piece of furniture can apply great forces on its joinery when just being moved, something most everyone has seen the evidence of after moving a large bit of screw together mass produced furniture. Simple fact is pocket hole joints are not going to make long lasting furniture unless you massively overbuild or it never gets used, it has its places, but it is not a good general purpose joint. Why go through the work of building something that is not going to last just to save the 5 minutes it would take to use the much stronger dowels?

As a side note, in that link posted above, you could get away with 3 dowels in that space and get the doweled joint almost as string as the mortise and tenon, but you lose the tendency of dowels to act like shear pins, the wood they join splits at failure instead of the dowels just shearing clean, so you trade more strength for a more difficult repair job if it does fail.

[Anonymous No.1650520]

/wwg/ I need a way to join the picrelated frame made out of 2x4s. Its weirdly put together to fit into a channel. The blue arrows show weight / loading points. A heavy object (60lbs) sits on the frame and leans back on the top horizontal segment.

Given the load bearing, I don't want to use really long screws, I would prefer to have some kind of super strong metal bracket. Does anyone know if such a thing exists and what they might be called? I swear I've seen something like that but I just can't find it.

[Anonymous No.1650521]

>>1650520
picrelated is what i vaguely recall the joint looking like

[Anonymous No.1650640]

>>1650520
>>1650521
Like.... a picture frame bracket?

[Anonymous No.1650644]

>>1642232
Always Respect the wood .

[Anonymous No.1650659]

>>1650644
Always Be Chiseling

[Anonymous No.1650702]

>>1650520
L-Bracket

They suck and do not expect much for life, but it may work out fine. Long screws with proper pilot holes would be much more sturdy, half laps glued and screwed would last for ages but Mr Pocket Hole will probably just call me a purist for mention that, despite the screws. Pocket Holes would work quite well here, but I suspect you do not have a jig or you would have used it instead of asking about these brackets.

[Anonymous No.1650704]

>>1650702
Would long screws really work better than angle brackets? I was thinking of getting something like 4x picrelated. I'd probably need 6-7" long screws. Would the shear strength of those be better than a bunch of picrelated? In my mind the stress distribution over the screws for the bracket is better vs the longer screws but I really have no idea.

[Anonymous No.1650706]

>>1650704
If you want sheer strength at the head you want nails, not screws.

[Anonymous No.1650708]

>>1650706
This is confusing :[
I just want it to be strong. I don't know what joining method to use.

[Anonymous No.1650718]

>>1650704
They just tend to work loose with time, as with all mechanical fasteners, it is caused by the seasonal expansion and contraction of the wood, glue greatly helps in keeping the fasteners from loosening but it is ineffective when gluing end grain to long grain. A half lap joint would give you a great deal of short grain to glue to that long grain and make things much more stable while remaining fairly simple to cut.

Screws through the sides would be better than the brackets, but not a great deal better, just slightly. You can counter sink the heads to shorten the screws, just drill a hole about 2" deep the size of the screws head then drill the pilot hole through the rest of the way.

>>1650706
No, any flat head screw like a cabinet screw has far greater strength in sheer than any nail and most any nail has greater strength in sheer than a drywall screw, assuming they are all of equal size.

>>1650708
ignore >>1650706, it is just pedantry.

[Anonymous No.1650719]

>>1650718
If I use the connector in the picture I posted, wouldn't I be avoiding the end grain? It would be the edge grain of both 2x4s (the connector would sit inside the corner).

The screws would be drilled into the end grain. Also thanks for all the help and discussion, its nice to learn about this stuff.

[Anonymous No.1650721]

>>1650718
>>1650704
Forgot to say, you can make the screws work better if you put them in from the top and bottom and not the sides. This puts most of the forces acting on the fasteners in compression and greatly reduces their tendency to work loose over time. A half lap will still outperform and can be used for far more.

The brackets can be just fine and long lasting if you tighten them back up when ever you notice some wobble, at least until the screw holes strip, but you can fill and redrill when that happens.

[Anonymous No.1650723]

>>1650719
The end grain issue is mostly when dealing with glue. Screws going into end grain tend not to be as strong, but they are stronger and more reliable than the L brackets in most cases.

[Anonymous No.1650725]

>>1650718
>No, any flat head screw like a cabinet screw has far greater strength in sheer than any nail

Dude what? Aren't structural members in houses put together for nails because they are better at handling shear?

[Anonymous No.1650728]

>>1650725
Nails are better at sheer than recessed head screws, when a sheer force is introduced and racks the frame it puts tension on the fastener which pulls the head into the wood. The underside of the head of a nail is flat and presents a broad surface to resist the pull, the underside of a recessed head screw is conical shaped, aka a wedge, so when it gets pulled it gets drawn deeper into the wood and it does what all good wedges do, splits the wood. This is why cabinet screw heads are flat underneath and we do not hang cabinets with nails despite cabinets forces being primarily sheer.

We use nails in framing because it is faster and in the frame itself the nail are mostly in compression, in those places with great shear or tension, we use lag bolts and the like.

Hang a your kitchen cupboards with nails and then load it up full of dishes and canned goods, see what happens.

[Anonymous No.1650731]

>>1650728
>in those places with great shear or tension, we use lag bolts and the like.
That is, in those places where tension or shear is focused on a small number of fasteners we use lag bolts and the like. The skin of a stick built house is largely in sheer, but we often use nails here as well, but this force is distributed across a great number of fasteners and the force any single ever sees is quite small.

[Anonymous No.1650932]

>>1650721
if you live in the northern hemisphere you want to install metal screws on the south side. if you install screws on the north side, the magnetic north pole will work them loose.

[Anonymous No.1650939]

>>1650932
Nah, the effects of the magnetic poles is too small and thanks to the coriolis effect all normally threaded screws in the northern hemisphere are self tightening, righty tighty was no accident, those old guys knew what they were doing.

[Anonymous No.1650957]

>>1645806
Along with your resume send in pictures of stuff you’ve built. It might not be cabinets but it shows you’re actually interested in woodworking and have built SOMETHING with your bare hands.

[Anonymous No.1651073]

>>1650731
>skin of a stick built house
Stick framed roofs and most walls get stapled OSB or zipboard.

The OSB would sooner tear itself apart before the wide crown staples let go of anything. Most things in the construction world that are stapled or glued are a bitch to demo.

This is similar to ring shank nails. If you nail two boards together, you'll have to pull the nail completely through one of the boards to separate them (or cut the nail).

[Anonymous No.1651074]

>>1649913
Looks like the laquer has aged. Sand and refinish.

[Anonymous No.1651660]

My door handle recently broke. I've been trying to find a replacement but all the stores I've been to so far have had different sizes. Any advice on how to get the exact size or who to contact in the UK? I can't imagine the company has just gone out of business.

[Anonymous No.1651681]

Where can I find plans for old woodworking benches like pic? I really want to try building one

[Anonymous No.1651708]

>>1651681
bunch of books available on it, probably your best bet.

[Anonymous No.1651784]

>>1651708
could you recommend some?

[Anonymous No.1651858]

>>1651681
There is one of those in The Workbench Book by Scott Landis, think that style may also be covered in the Schwarz book, do not recall off the top of my head, they are mostly a rehashing of the Landis book in the end, some new info and more history thrown in.

[Anonymous No.1651896]

>>1651681
https://youtu.be/V9W9xQS-EdQ

Paul sellers makes one in that style and even covers how to do it with handtools on the cheap.

I dont remember, but I'd recommend round holes for round dogs. I haven't enjoyed square dogs. Round can either have tangential contact or flat and line up perfectly. You can also use classic holdfasts.

[Anonymous No.1651917]

>>1651896
>I dont remember, but I'd recommend round holes for round dogs. I haven't enjoyed square dogs. Round can either have tangential contact or flat and line up perfectly. You can also use classic holdfasts.
If you use holdfasts in dog holes they cease being good dog holes in short order, hold fasts distort the hole, so not the best of ideas. If you have a good dense hardwood top on your workbench you can get away with doing it occasionally, but generally dog holes are not in very useful places for holdfasts.

Round dogs can be useful, but it is fairly rare they actually do any better, the problem with them is that if you cut away half of the top to get a flat surface to bear against as is common, you greatly weaken them. You can make a larger square top for a round dog, but they can no longer drop into the bench when not in use, a round topped square dog still can while still being beefy enough to be strong. Round is easier to make since you just drill a hole but making them sprung so they stay at the height you set them at is more work, so the work savings is a wash.

They both can be perfectly adequate and do all the same things, what sort of work you intend to do should guide your choice. If you want to work with primarily funny shapes then two rows of round dogs would be a smart move, you can have square topped ones for when you work square boards. If you primarily plan on working in the square, then square dogs will save you some headaches and speed your work, you can make some round topped dogs or ones with set angles for when you need them. If you are building a bench with only a single row of holes round dogs make little sense, their advantages are all lost.

[Anonymous No.1652041]

>>1651917
i know it's not in the spirit of DIY but you can buy metal round dogs. you'll have all versatility of round dogs and there's no way you'll break them. a round hole is a lot less work to make.

[Anonymous No.1652162]

>>1652041
>metal round dogs
The brass ones that seem most common have a few quirks, their own weight can cause them to work out the bottom of the hole, they stay put for the most part but when you start banging on the bench good, like when chopping out a mortise, they often will start their downward migration to the floor. They are hard and will dent all but very hard woods, so you always have to put something between them and the work, which kills some of the ease of the bench dogs. Lastly, they are metal, when something goes wrong and the blade goes into the dog, it is not trivial.

>there's no way you'll break them
Wooden dogs made out of any good dense wood are pretty hard to break, but who cares, anyone who works wood has a more scrap than they know what to do with and dogs are quick and easy to make, one of the real advantages of wooden dogs, you can quickly knock them out with any sort of odd shaped head, when you are working on an extra soft sort of wood, you can whip up a couple dogs out of the same wood and drastically reduce chances of the dogs damaging the work.

>a round hole is a lot less work to make.
Not that much less, few minutes work once you have the technique down. A dog hole is just one half of a mortise and tenon, probably the most important joint in wood working and dog holes are the perfect place to get good at them, they are non critical, you have a fair amount of wiggle room and if you manage to fuck up good no loss plugging the hole and starting over, it is just a bench after all. Those who really fear cutting the square hole can always do as they did on the bench in >>1651681, just cut the holes before glue up, now it is just two quick saw cuts, a couple whacks on the chisel and couple pushes to smooth things up, can't be easier.

Nothing against metal dogs personally, I made a few steel ones for myself even, they just are not some perfect solution to all your bench dog woes, they are just different.

[Anonymous No.1652262]

>>1647658
You have terrible taste, but walnut is by far the most commonly used wood for rifle furniture.

[Anonymous No.1652357]

>>1652041

Just 3D print some.

[Anonymous No.1652390]

>>1652357
That is not a dog, that is a planing stop. Such a planing stop is almost exclusively used by those without a tail vise and bench dogs. They are most likely using a holdfast hole as well, too far in from the edge to be good for a dog hole or planing stop. This fella is either newish to wood working or shilling to those new to wood working, they are the only ones that proudly empty their plane shavings on the bench like a trophy that hides your tools and sticks you with that marking knife when you sweep off the bench.

It really is less work and far more sensible to regularly empty the plane onto the floor and you are far less likely to have small tools disappear for ever. Never empty your plane onto the bench.

[Anonymous No.1652409]

>>1652390

Putting the tail vise and trash can in frame looks like shit.

[Anonymous No.1652415]

>>1652409
>looks like shit.
Looks better than a bench covered in shavings.

Why did you run your dog holes so far in? Think that is the furthest I have ever seen them from the edge. That would drive me absolutely mad.

[Anonymous No.1653200]

Resawing is one of those things many think you need special saws and a stout vise for, they shy away from it or it keeps them from getting into woodworking because it is another tool they "need," moving the entry fee out of range. Before work this morning I did pic related, too hot in the garage and out in the sun so I setup with a couple hand screws, ryoba, and a smooth plane at my desk, a leisurely hour later my two boards were four and squared up, ready for layout. The 7+ inch width of the oak was pushing it for my 9" ryoba but it works and I have done bigger, just work from the corners, then from the top and bottom and back to the corners until you meet in the center. It is incredibly satisfying when all your cuts meet perfectly in the center leaving just a few passes with the smooth plane to finish it up.

Keep it up /wwg/, ignore the naysayers and have at it.

[Anonymous No.1653203]

>>1653200
>a leisurely hour later

I mean, you don't NEED special equipment for most woodworking. But I do have to point out it took you an HOUR in what I could do with my bandsaw and thickness planer in under 3 minutes.

[Anonymous No.1653208]

>>1653203
So? Not everyone has the space or money for such tools and some enjoy the quiet slower pace of hand tools. At the bench with the frame saw it would have taken 20 minutes, 30 with the ryoba, but my desk is not heavy enough to take that kind of cutting and I was in no rush. The very fine kerf of the ryoba also maximizes wood, I would not have gotten a full 1/2" and 1/4" board out of the 7/8" stock with a band saw and surface planer, and getting those full sizes makes the rest of the project easier.

You did not need to mention that power tools are quicker, everyone already knows that, a pointless post.

[Anonymous No.1653210]

Anyone have any experience making wooden masks?
I really want to get into this as a hobby, and maybe even for cosplay.

How would I neccesarily get started for masks specifically?

[Anonymous No.1653221]

>>1653210
Masks would be a mix of the techniques used in bowl carving and carving in the round, search for those two topics should get you started. Probably would want a selection of gouges, a small bowl adz, a couple flat chisels and a mallet, would be a fun hobby.

[Anonymous No.1653224]

I need a way to cut a groove in a 2x4 that is .5 wide and 1 inch deep. I do not have a router.

Is my best bet to cut two lines with a circular saw and then chisel it out? any other ideas?

[Anonymous No.1653226]

>>1653221
Roger that, I'll start in that direction.
Thanks anon!

[Anonymous No.1653247]

>>1653224
That would work just fine, I would also run a cut down the center, will make chopping out the waste quick and easy.

[Anonymous No.1653379]

i just got some spanish cedar and it smells good

[Anonymous No.1653433]

>>1653203
A good number of people enjoy the process of working wood as much, if not more, than the end result. For me, I work out all my designs as I do the stock prep, I generally only have a vague idea of what I am building, I know its purpose and size constraints, perhaps even have an idea or two on the design, but nothing concrete. As I start working the wood and watch how the grain changes under the plane, see how the saw works through the wood I get ideas, I work out the joinery, I revise and rework. As I work through stock prep the design evolves, I cut out one piece and see it near final dimension, adjust others to suit more, adjust the design in my head to suit tzAhat, it rarely stops changing until the piece is actually finished.

>>1653379
Spanish Cedar is one of my favorites, the smell while working it is amazing, it works beautifully with hand tools as well. Enjoy working with it, you have any plans as to what you are going to make with it?

[Anonymous No.1653477]

I acquired a conference table which I need to restore the finish of. It seems to be wood veneer or something. There is fiber board bottom and the top is 1/8inch thick wood face. The thing is massive though and has 2 leafs to expand it if you want. Is this worth my time?

[Anonymous No.1653478]

>>1653477
Also what's the best way to remove previous finish? Should I use a stripper or just use my orbital sander?

[Anonymous No.1653485]

>>1653433
I am going to make a wall ornament for my girlfriends family. it is a nice piece of wood

[Anonymous No.1653530]

I have an interview for a peon-level job at a place that makes swanky furniture. I've made small shitty things with a hacksaw and a drill before and generally spend time making things with my hands, just usually not wood. What can I say to make myself sound impressive? What should I avoid saying? Please help me escape DeskLife.

[Anonymous No.1653668]

>>1653477
Sounds like the standard cheap office furniture, pretty much set dressing, looks alright as long as you do not look too closely. As to if it is worth it, see what a comparable table sells for new and figure you will be able to sell yours for ~2/3rds that cost assuming you do a decent job, subtract your time and supplies, is your profit enough to justify that?

>>1653478
Use a stripper, it will take ages and a shitload of sand paper to do a massive conference table with a random orbit sander. Random orbit sanders are for preparing the wood for a finish, not heavy removal.

>>1653485
Nice, sounds like you will get to do some carving on it then. I have some waiting for a purpose, I occasionally pull a scrapper down the side of it so I can smell its wonderful aroma.

>>1653530
Just tell them you are sick of life at a desk and convince them you are a good worker.

[Anonymous No.1653811]

>>1653530
Just be honest. All you need to do in a situation like that is be teachable and self motivated to do a good job.

[Anonymous No.1655247]

>$75
>T style fence
>big table
Would you?

[Anonymous No.1655249]

will a 120 grit belt sander be too much for removing the finish off an old table? is 220 grit to little for getting a nice finish?

[Anonymous No.1655250]

>>1655247
Thats the same table I grew up with, dad bought it new, was still working great when he sold it about a decade ago because he moved across country. The fence is not the best, but it works and is easy enough to replace if need be. No idea on the price, all I can say is I ran a lot of wood through one of those and never had a problem.

[Anonymous No.1655252]

>>1655249
120 will remove a fair amount of wood as well, 220 can be fine for a good finish depending on the wood, but 400 is better.

[Anonymous No.1655253]

>>1655252
good that I asked then before ruining this table, thanks for the info.

[Anonymous No.1655273]

Location aquired. Hit squad en route.

>>1655247
Aluminum top and sheet steel wings. Meh fence. 1 HP on modern saws means it is really 3/4th hp. The price is decent for my area but I don't know about where you live. I can't tell from the picture but it is from an era where flex drive was used for saws. You want to avoid those. The shafts only last so long and replacements are super uncommon. Belt drive saws are more reliable and the belts are standard even today.

Here are some better options:

https://westernmass.craigslist.org/tls/d/springfield-table-saw/6914587587.html

$50. This saw is better or the same compared to the one you are looking at in almost every way. It's only a 9 inch but it is a better maker (Rockwell/Delta) and it has a steel top with cast wings. The fence is also meh but it can be replaced easily with a better one and it is likely no worse. The motor may be 3/4th HP or 1 HP but either one will be more powerful than the Craftsman. The one thing to look out for is the handwheels. If they are plastic be careful with them, as with any saw with plastic wheels. If they are metal you are solid, no worries.

[Anonymous No.1655280]

>>1655247
https://westernmass.craigslist.org/tls/d/springfield-craftsman-table-saw/6920188536.html

Taking offers. Offer $60. This is another Craftsman but from a better era. A real 3/4th HP motor (which means its a litter better than that) and a 10 inch blade. It has two wings but they are both on one side (you can do that with cast wings). Again, meh fence but all old saw fences are meh. All metal construction. No plastic anything to worry about. Someone lost the blade guard it looks like as the support for it is there and at least one of the handwheels is gone. They can be found on eBay, as Sears sold a million of these things, or you can DIY one. They aren't complex.

[Anonymous No.1655282]

>>1655273
It is a belt drive unless they made two version of that saw.

Actually, that is a slightly different saw than the one I grew up with, my dads had a steel top and the insert did not go all the way to the back of the table, everything else looks identical.

[Anonymous No.1655284]

>>1655247
https://albany.craigslist.org/tls/d/amsterdam-table-saw-craftsman/6913295188.html

It is kind of a mess and it is farther away but it is only $40. It appears to be complete and it is old enough that the 1 HP rating is probably correct.

[Anonymous No.1655288]

>>1655247
https://worcester.craigslist.org/tls/d/craftsman-heavy-duty-table-saw/6934612237.html

$125. This is a Craftsman "100". This was their top of the line saw back in the 50s. It has a Dayton 1 HP motor and that is probably accurately rated. It originally came with a 1 HP motor. Again, meh fence and it is outside the area, but it is the best saw I've seen in your area for under $150.

[Anonymous No.1655290]

>>1655288

[Anonymous No.1655292]

>>1655247
https://newhaven.craigslist.org/tls/d/wallingford-9-table-saw/6942356905.html

Another Rockwell 9 inch but this time it has a "better" fence. Try and talk them down to $50 and mention the other add and see if they will go for it. Handwheels are plastic but look undamaged. You'll have to gather more info. They didn't saw the motor HP or if it is missing anything and there are only 2 pictures.

[Anonymous No.1655310]

>>1652162

i have no experience making mortices but i can't see that being nearly as quick of a job as drilling a forstner bit hole. but as i said, i've never made a mortice

i do admit square dog holes are a lot more aesthetic.

they have round metal dogs with a flange on them so they can't drop through a dog hole. it's what i'm planning on using on my work bench

[Anonymous No.1655317]

>>1655284
sup bro, schoharie here.

want to immitation crab meat and recharge crystals?

[Anonymous No.1655346]

>>1655310
>but i can't see that being nearly as quick of a job as drilling a forstner bit hole
It does not take much longer, drill it out and square it up with the chisel, just a couple minutes extra work per hole and it is a skill worth getting good at since it is an often repeated task in wood working. Chisel and mallet make short work of the wood left in the corners.

Forstner bits are not the best for this application, their shaft is often too short to go all the way through and they are not the quickest of drilling bits and lack any ability to clear the chips out of a hole of any depth, a good auger bit will do the job well and has plenty of length to get through even the thickest of tops.

>round metal dogs with a flange
Sure, these add in an extra step since you also have to drill in a recess in the bench top if you want the dog to be able to drop down flush with the surface when not in use.

[Anonymous No.1655419]

>>1655252
were these numbers in burger paper or europaper?

[Anonymous No.1655425]

>>1655419
burger

[Anonymous No.1655449]

>>1655425
hmm alright. The old damaged wood finish is pretty thin so I guess I will be better off getting a finer belt. The store only had one belt that fit that sander, which was a 120 grit belt, and the only pads that fit the detail sander were 180. 180 is maybe fine it sounds like for removing the finish, with then the finest pads/belts/sheets I can get after (probably in the 300 range it sounds like). I had no idea about using blocks to apply even pressure to sand paper when sanding by hand either.

[Anonymous No.1655454]

>>1655449
>I had no idea about using blocks to apply even pressure to sand paper when sanding by hand either.
Even is good, but there is such a thing as too even. If you just stick sand paper to a block of wood you will quickly discover there are points on the paper that clog or wear out quickly, high spots on the work put more pressure on the paper than low causing the paper to wear quickly. We need some give under the block to even this out and spread the pressure better, this is why purchased sanding blocks are often made out of things like hard rubber. For home made blocks you can just glue some cork or leather onto a hunk of wood, it will work much better and the paper will last longer than sand paper stuck to wood. Generally I use cork blocks for rough work and leather blocks for finish sanding.

Personally I would just scrape the finish of, card scrapers make short work out old flaking finish and they are cheap.

[Anonymous No.1655676]

Hi /wwg/. What is the most cheap diy way to carve a channel or groove through a piece of 2x4? I need to make the channel through a couple of end grain faces (3.5" long each) and one side face that's about 16" long.

Its ~0.5" wide and deep. Does not have to look good or clean or anything.

[Anonymous No.1655690]

>>1655676
A router is the way to go. You can do it with a circular saw and a bunch of passes. If you are really hard up a paring chisel will do but it will be hard as fuck.

[Anonymous No.1655701]

>>1655676
Table saw if you have one. If not what the other guy said.

[Anonymous No.1655717]

>>1655676
That's a rip cut. You'll notice that you get a lot more resistance cutting parallel to the grain.

I'd take that out of a 2x4 with a circ saw & the piece clamped solid. The table saw or router table will do a cleaner job.

[Anonymous No.1655777]

>>1655690
>a paring chisel will do but it will be hard as fuck.
That is because you are using a paring chisel which have long thin blades with some flex and often a shallower bevel, only quality it has that suits this job is length but the thinness and flex work against you and the shallow bevel will not do well on that end grain. A stout 1/2 bench chisel or mortise chisel and a knife would work much better, perhaps a half hours work.

>>1655676
Chisel will be the cheapest assuming you have nothing as far as wood working tools go. Not terribly difficult, just take a little work to learn the techniques. It would help if you informed us as to what tools you already have access too.

[Anonymous No.1656256]

I recently wanted to start wood carving, nothing too serious just some spoons/forks and maybe some little animals.

Pic related is my second spoon, i made it from a branch of a chinese willow I cut one year ago (it has been drying in my shed since then). Unfortunately the wood cracked at the tip of the spoon while i was carving it, the crack is only 1cm long.

Will the crack get longer and utimately split the spoon ? Is there a way to prevent it ? How should I dry my spoon and how long will it take it ? Also should I oil up my spoon right after i finish it or wait for it to be dry ?

[Anonymous No.1656435]

>>1656256
The spoon carvers I know all carve the spoon out 80-90% while the wood is green, let it dry for a few weeks than finish up the carving, some give it another week or two dry time before oiling, some oil immediately.

Sheds are not good places to dry wood, their temperature and humidity can vary too greatly over the span of a day, just dry in your house,

Cracking happens, not much you can do, it is just part of woodware, a certain amount fail from the start. Carving from green wood will make it less of an issue, mainly by making the carving process much quicker and easier and since you rough out and then dry before doing the slow finish work, any that crack are found early so the loss of time and effort is less of an issue.

I would just toss it, cracks in woodware tend to keep moving and if it is functional woodware the cracks are impossible to keep clean.

[Anonymous No.1656479]

One last call for links/information/suggestions for the OP, new thread will begin tonight after work.

[Anonymous No.1656789]

>>1656435
Thanks for all the answers anon. Well I finished it anyway, it's hollidays and I have a lot of free time so... At least i'll make the next one properly !

Last question : why would you only carve the spoon 80/90% while green and not 100% if it's quicker ?

[Anonymous No.1656800]

>>1656789
The fibers in wood are not all at an equal tension, while the wood is whole they are all at an equilibrium, when we cut out a bunch of those fibers we ruin that equilibrium and the wood is going to move. So we leave a little extra thickness to help resist those changes and reduce chances of spliting while the wood finds its new balance. The extra wood also means if it decides to move in a funny way we should have enough material left to make things still work. This is good practice in all wood working, regardless if it is dried wood or green, rough it out and let it rest, dried wood generally only needs a few days generally, but sometimes it moves for awhile.

Here is a video from The Woodwrights Shop on spoon carving as well as a bowl carving and shrink box video. The all use the same techniques for the most part and exploit working green wood to save work.
https://www.pbs.org/video/the-woodwrights-shop-carving-swedish-spoons-with-peter-follansnbee/
https://www.pbs.org/video/woodwrights-shop-bowl-carving-peter-follansbee/
https://www.pbs.org/video/woodwrights-shop-swedish-shrink-box/

They show some good technique, especially the spoon carving one, shows some great strokes on how to use the entire blade so you will not have to sharpen so often and remove more material with less effort.

[Anonymous No.1657400]

new thread finally >>1657399