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/diy/ - Do-It-Yourself


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1610528 No.1610528 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Can DIY convince me that it is a really bad idea to install a 22000 cfm cooler in my 1500 house vs a residential sized one?

>> No.1610534

>>1610528
The motor will burn out from having to fight that much restriction every time it runs.

>> No.1610536

>>1610534

Restriction?

>> No.1610540

>>1610536

Yes

>> No.1610543

>>1610540
What does restriction imply in this context?

You mean with all that air going into a small closed space? I could just open a bunch of windows or a space to the attic when it runs

>> No.1610553

>>1610543
>What does restriction imply in this context?
Try to blow really really hard through a drinking straw. Then do the same with a swizzle stick.

A 22,000CFM blower has a minimum inlet and outlet requirement in order to reach its rated flowrate. If you go below those requiresments the load seen by the motor will be outside of its normal spec. So you will see higher current draw at start, and during peak RPM. It will die prematurely as a result. Even on a low speed setting the motor will be trying to overcome the outlet and inlet restriction.

Alternatively if you size the ducts big enough in a space that small, you will be living in the middle of a windstorm whenever the blower kicks on. And the ducts will eat up a ton of space.

>> No.1610554

>>1610543
The static pressure will be high due to the tiny duct volume. That's what he means, this can drive up the motor amperage and cause early failure. Also, an oversized system can short cycle and cause humidity problems + plus short cycling the compressor will shorten the service live as well.

>> No.1610558

>>1610554

If he nigger rigs a setup and stand so the cooler just pushes into a large open window in say the living room and he opens up every window in the rest of the house the pressure should be fine however that is a lot of water to put into the air, if the manually turns the pump on and off then it should be fine as well. I think it would be cool

>> No.1610560

>>1610534
>fight that much restriction
Fan motors 'work' is based on how much air they move.
Blocking the airflow reduces it's work load.
As long as there is enough air to cool the motor (which is working less) it will be fine.
The motor has 'fan' blades inside for it's own cooling.
>>1610554
>short cycling the compressor
water coolers (swamp coolers) don't have compressors

>> No.1610561

>>1610554
This is an evaporative cooler not an air conditioner you google fu using fuck

>> No.1610563 [DELETED] 

>>1610560
>Blocking the airflow reduces it's work load.
>As long as there is enough air to cool the motor (which is working less) it will be fine.

Here, folks, we have an actual troll physics in the wild.

>> No.1610565

>>1610563
>hurr durr ur wrong lol

Great addition bud

>> No.1610567

Enjoy your 90% indoor humidity.

>> No.1610570 [DELETED] 

>>1610565

Ah, the short bus has arrived. Ahem. One fan is pushing air against other air. Another fan is pushing air against a solid wall. Anyone want to guess which one is working harder? Anyone?

>> No.1610572

>>1610567
you do realize you can turn the pump off right? and just run the fan?

>> No.1610574

>>1610567
Depends on where he lives.
Many Desert Southwest US homes are cooled with evaporative coolers.

>> No.1610576

>>1610560
>>1610563
He's correct. Less flow equals less amps.
However that will result in the unit probably exceeding its rated RPM and it will be REALLY noisy as a result. There might be other secondary issues that result from that like it throwing belts regularly.

>> No.1610579

>>1610563
>>1610570
You niggas need to learn more things

>> No.1610585

>>1610528
You got the correct answer in the first few posts. Ignore the following BS who are jerking off to the idea of misleading a stranger on the internet.

I do kind of like the idea of just manually running it only after opening up all your windows. You'd never have to vacuum, but don't stay inside if you have a head cold, you'll blow out your eardrums.

>> No.1610588

>>1610585
I mean it is not the best idea but I wouldn't flat out call it the worst idea

>> No.1610612

>>1610528
>>1610534
You can usually safely have a "low" option on evap motors, from my experience. Not sure how that works, but I know all of mine as a youth did. Besides, motors for evap coolers are cheap, and you can always replace the motor with a lower rpm or variable speed motor, thus reducing the overall cfm. He can also just open all the windows or a door or two and it should be fine.

tl;dr running it at full speed will be stupid, but there are workarounds.

>> No.1610673

>>1610570

The one pushing open air.

Do you notice how a vacuum cleaner's whine increases in pitch when it's blocked? This is the motor speeding up because the load is decreased.

Blocking a blower is only a problem when the motor is reliant on the air its moving to cool it. If the motor is external to the blower, it will actually run _cooler_ with a heavily restricted flow.

This is generally true of all pumps that aren't positive displacement. It's easier to just spin the same fluid around within the pump than it is to actually impart velocity (and, therefore, energy) to a fluid moving properly through the system.

>> No.1610724
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1610724

>>1610528
I think it will work good

>> No.1610730

>>1610560
This is the only person in this thread that's not an idiot.

>> No.1610825

>>1610730
So that includes yourself? Meaning you are an idiot so if you say that dude isn't an idiot then he must be because you are too stupid to know why this won't work

>> No.1610829

>>1610576
>However that will result in the unit probably exceeding its rated RPM

Not if it's an induction motor. I might run a few percent faster. But never faster than its synchronous speed. If it's a series connected universal motor and you unload it ..... boom!

>> No.1610830

>>1610829
>I
It

>> No.1610835

>>1610579
https://youtu.be/INbV5ggQ93A?t=150
Are you retarded?

Look. Airflow completely blocked for a static pressure test. Motor running at 100 watts.

Allow normal airflow. Motor now running at 150 watts.

Less air flow, more static pressure, less power used by motor.

>> No.1610849

>>1610825
Shit, you got me

>> No.1610853

The air from the vents will be loud asf

>> No.1610902

>>1610853
Not if he blows it through the living room window then it will just push everything out the other windows in the house

Upside is clean air all the time but there are no mechanical downsides to this other than living in a wind turbine unless you lower the fan speed

>> No.1610945

>>1610567
I use an evap in the summer, it's tolerable if you stay inside, it only sucks of you go outside and get sweaty and then come back in and then your damp and cold.

>> No.1610963

>>1610945
is your cooler nearly 10x the size it needs to be for your house/

>> No.1610972

>>1610554
My grandad got a big evap cooler for nothing. Cracked a few doors and windows and let the thing blast. On the one hand wasteful, on the other hand, it was going to the dump and really just cost him gas and effort for fixing and installing, and it was still fairly cheap for him to run. Adding another 10-15 years on the life of the thing offset the extra energy/water footprint?

>> No.1610978

>>1610972

Yourgrandad gay

>> No.1611157

>>1610553
>f you go below those requiresments the load seen by the motor will be outside of its normal spec.
I'm pretty sure dampers are used to control air flow in constant speed fan setups. Dampers are used to restrict airflow, and this reduces power consumption. A fan is NOT a positive displacement device, and does not operate on the same principles as your lungs, bad example.

A centrifugal pump for example draws less power and amps when the discharge is restricted. A fan is like a centrifugal pump but it moves a gas instead of an air. It will work less if the discharge/inlet is restricted not more.

>> No.1611166

>>1610563
I hate to break it to you, but he's right. A fan draws less power when the flows are restricted.
Work done is measured in joules, which is 1N acting to move an object 1 meter. Since the duct is restricting the movement of air, and the fan is not moving as much air it is working less not more. Dampers are commonly employed to control constant speed fans for this reason.

>> No.1611177

>>1610570
>Ah, the short bus has arrived.
You should probably get on that bus anon. A fan is not a positive displacement device, it's easier to maintain a slight static pressure than to impart velocity to the air.

>> No.1611181

>>1611157
>moves a gas instead of an air
Moves a gas instead of water.

>> No.1611207

>>1611166
>>1611177

sikh dopples

>> No.1611218

>>1610563
when you are vaccing up, block the hose
the motor pitch gets higher because its spinnign faster
its spinning faster because the same power input has less air friction to overcome.

>> No.1611258

>>1610528
You retarded like American? Don't do it.

>>1610553
This.

Sigh. We shouldn't waste time on threads like those.

>t.ventilation faggot

>> No.1611310

>>1610553

Itt. Anon is tired of the dry desert heat. Now all of his bros gotta bring sleeping bag unisuits and keep beer outside because

>muh -20°

>> No.1611333

>>1611258
>Sigh. We shouldn't waste time on threads like those.
Yet, here you are...

>> No.1611365

>be me
>grow up in midwest
>move to colorado
>working at warehouse
>anon go up get swamp cooler
>????
>don't you know what a swamp cooler is?
>mfw i see water running over filter, with fan blowing across it

>> No.1612550

you will literally blow the water out of every trap in the plumbing system... but no worries with that much air pressure inside no sewer gas will come through...

>> No.1612915

holy shit so many people (or one obsessive poster) ITT with no idea what dictates torque / power consumption on a fan. Look up 'fan curve' you tards.

>> No.1612929

>>1611365
Evaporative Humidifier. The cooling effect is beneficial in dry climates with hot weather, reduces load on your AC without really wasting anything; just a bit more fan power (because the wet filters are quite restrictive) and some UV filtered water. Doesn't work in anywhere that isn't both hot and dry though. We used to sell them by the truckloads to data centers and the like.

>> No.1612932

>>1610673
That's only true when blocking the inlet (like your vacuum example). What you're incorrectly applying that logic to is called "dead heading" and is definitely not power efficient. You're essentially making the pump run at maximum pressure, which is to say maximum load. When they're not restricted, they'll happily and efficiently pump away at whatever speed they pump at. Fan is no different.

Those pumps are called "constant pressure" for a reason. And before you tout about "work", remember work output is not the same as input power.

>> No.1612947

>>1612932
Maximum pressure is not maximum load unless it's a positive displacement pump.
Blocking the inlet of a pump pumping a fluid will starve a pump and possibly damage it. Control of centrifugal pumps is done by throttling the outlet, and they draw more amps at lower pressure/max flow than at max pressure/minimum flow.

A fan will still draw less amps with the discharge blocked than with it completely open. Controlling it this way isn't as efficient as blocking the inlet, but it still draws less amps.

>> No.1612972

>>1610558
My parents have a neighbor/builder/jewelry designer/folk musician/childrens party clown magician/ who built a "SPEC" house just before the housing collapse.
His house, 9,000sqft, is made of "E-Crete", it's a pumice block that's supposed to be "all in one" insulating, complete support, does it all, plastered directly on the inside, stucco direct on the outside, it's the pad and the roof standing seam applied directly.
In the desert at 7500k, all south facing windows.
Couldn't sell, lost his other homes and businesses, had to move in.
Place is like living in a brick solar oven.
None of the windows open, no AC, no fans.
Can't retrofit anything, no place for ductwork, ACC ( these are million dollar homes) will not allow roof ducts.
Way his ceiling is built and his electrical system he cant install ceiling fans, lights are wired as super low watt LED.
ACC says no replacing sealed windows.
ACC, no outside swamp cooler, no mini-split.
Only allow hidden cooling units on roof, he has a metal roof, no where to hide units.
ACC allows two 250sqft addition "bonus rooms", one on each side of the house on the long axis, house looks like a really big single wide, all houses had to be a minimum of 9k sqft.
Additions have no windows just a barn style sliding doors.
One room door is the opening to an industrial swamp cooler that sits in the room, the other addition has a giant screen behind the barn door.
It's like being in a wind tunnel, cant hardly hear anyone while the cooler is on.
The swamper room gets so cold it is like being in a refrigerator.
The humidity is huge, got mold growing on some of the ceilings.
Big plus, no bugs, they all get pushed into the screens in the exit room.
2nd plus, cant hear the guys wife complaining.
Parents are 300 yards away, big lots, houses have to built in an "envelope" decided by the ACC to keep homes as far apart as possible.
Sounds like a old prop airplane ready for take off when he fires it up.

>> No.1612974

>>1612972
Mini splits are the only option for him. And ventilation hole in the wall.
Imagine number of ugly third-world units needed for 830 m^2 house.
>ACC, no outside swamp cooler, no mini-split.
Well, fuck them, it is against constitution.

>> No.1615145

>>1610528
>convince me that it is a really bad idea
Do you have a neighbor & does he have guns? Yes to both should dissuade you from this ill-thought out lark.

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