/diy/ - Do It Yourself

[Anonymous No.1581495]

Redpill me on modern saws.
That discolored strip at the teeth means it's only hardened there and you can't sharpen it with a simple triangle file like you used to because you're in soft steel in no time, right?

[Anonymous No.1581497]

>>1581495
Fuck you sharpening them for. Buy a new saw for £3 and carry on with your life.

[Anonymous No.1581498]

No

[Anonymous No.1581518]

No

[Anonymous No.1581522]

That's carbide and it's on everything from saw blades to air drill shanks. Always applied the same way. I'm guessing beacuse carbide is pretty expensive they use as little as possible.

[Anonymous No.1581531]

>>1581522
You sure?
I mean look at pic related, looks like differentialy heat treated with a induction heater.

[Anonymous No.1581534]

Yeah it's not carbide. At first glance it looked like it was. Almost all circular saw blades have carbide tips now. So assumed these were the same.

[Anonymous No.1581588]

>>1581495
Knowing modern marketing, they probably just paint it to make it look like carbide, even though using carbide on a hand wood saw is retarded.

[Anonymous No.1581592]

>>1581522
>because carbide is pretty expensive
That's one thing, but because it's so hard and rigid, if the entire saw blade was carbide, it'd be much more likely to break apart into a million pieces, injuring people nearby. They make the big part from flexible steel that doesn't break apart easily.

[Anonymous No.1581623]

It‘s not carbide, goddamit, who on their right mind would use carbide in a hand saw?

[Anonymous No.1581700]

>>1581495
sharpening isn't gonna instantly remove all the hardened steel.
If you look at it from a top down cross section the black part is the hardened, grey soft, and blue is what the sharpening removes.
the hard steel on the flat side of the teeth is all you really need for the cutting.

[Anonymous No.1581702]

>>1581700
this doesn't apply for ripsaws though

[Anonymous No.1581721]

This place knows nothing about saws.

You have two types of ways of harden the teeth of a hand saw blade, you can harden the entire tooth with induction heating like the saw in OP, or you can use impulse harden to harden just the cutting surface. Both saw are made from the same sort of steel and the entire saw plate is at spring temper, which is how hard the steel of the teeth of the traditional saw without hardened teeth are, this is required since if it was softer the saw would fold and crease the first time it bound in the kerf on the push stroke, if it was harder it would just snap.

You can sharpen both types but you need a diamond file, OPs would need a feather file, not a standard triangular saw taper. On the impulse hardened teeth you only need the diamond file for the first sharpening, after that you have worked through the hardened steel to the spring tempered steel and you can use a standard file. You will also need a diamond stone to stone the sides of the teeth after sharpening to remove the bur.

OPs saw is pretty much only good for cross cutting 2x4s, its tooth pattern is almost useless for anything else, but it can do it all day long for years to come without dulling.

The black on the teeth is just a treatment to form black oxide to help prevent red oxide (rust) which would ruin the sharpness and the saw in the eyes of the people it is marketed for. They are meant to be neglected, tossed in the tool box with teeth clogged with saw dust on a rainy day at the jobsite, which would result in rusted and poorly cutting teeth come morning without that black oxide.

[Anonymous No.1581779]

>>1581721
Personally I wouldn't bother but your post was informative.
I haven't heard of impulse hardening, but it makes sense, as hole saw bits I purchased from harbor freight turned to shit very quickly. Even though I was very careful with it. I ended up buying a forstner bit instead

[Anonymous No.1582174]

>>1581495
japanese pull saws are so much better than euro style saws for most woodworking. They don't even cost very much.

[Anonymous No.1582354]

>>1581623

>Implying your fapping hand can't get that saw going at 750 cycles a minute

[Anonymous No.1582377]

>>1582174
Not really, they are just different and each have their strengths, try ripping and resawing with the japanese saws, painfully slow, but useful at times. While the ryoba is great for cutting tennons, if the wood is a good and straight grained i am going to just cut the shoulders on a bench hook with the carcass saw and split the entire waste away in one go with chisel and mallet.

If you can not see the advantages of both traditions you are never going to be good.

[Anonymous No.1582388]

>>1581531
It's actually welded HS tool steel on the cutter side with cheaper carbon in the body

[Anonymous No.1582631]

>>1581497
To not be wasteful?

[Anonymous No.1582635]

>>1582388
Seriously?

HSS offers no advantages over the standard hand saw steels, that is an expensive way to make a cheap saw! Must be trying to compete with impulse hardened teeth with machinery at hand and using the HSS because it is the cheapest of the fancy sounding steels.

[Anonymous No.1583273]

>>1582377
More on saws please? What saws sold I be getting for basic diy?

[Anonymous No.1583477]

>>1583273
Basic DIY is vague, what sort of things do you want to make? What sort of woods do you want to use?

[Anonymous No.1583711]

>>1583273
Everybody needs a junior hack saw for odd jobs like cutting pipes and abuse.
Next a toolbox saw like op, all rough biggish wood jobs.
Then get one small pull saw for nice cuts of small wood bits.
They are each £5 to £10 for decent items. All cheap and abusable for home DIY.

[Mrcrummy !PAWSmuoJ2g No.1583721]

>>1582174
>>1582377
good job owning a retarded weeb, i enjoyed that

[Anonymous No.1583733]

>>1583711
Junior hacksaws are almost useless, a good hacksaw is well worth the money and most of the good hacksaws are cheap on the used market. The king is the old Goodell-Pratt in pic related, the knob on the toe gives you great control and considerably more power than grabbing the end of the frame without risking your fingers and the blade can be rotated so you can turn it 90 degrees for doing longer cuts. If memory serves I got mine for $12.

Pull saws are great but for the weekend warrior a backed push saw, dovetail/carcass/tenon, has some big advantages, mainly you can exploit bench hooks and need no special work holding, any reasonably sturdy table will do the job.

Modern toolbox saws are great for rough cross cutting, the old fashioned ones with normal western pattern teeth will give a cleaner cut in most woods and do a much better job on hardwoods, but when you need to chop construction grade lumber it is hard to argue with and is almost as quick as the chop saw.

>>1583721
It is not hard to do in the modern world, almost no one knows anything about hand tools beyond the market hype.

[Anonymous No.1586168]

>>1581495

I purchased a couple of the IRWIN brand hand saws with the hardened teeth and they are amazing. Who cares if you can't resharpen the teeth if you are 3x as productive with it. Also I'm sure you could resharpen them with some sort of diamond impregnated stone if you really wanted to.

[Anonymous No.1587735]

>>1581522
Only expensive tools use carbide, like bandsaw blades meant for resawing wood. Not handdaws.

I own 10 of various types, from Japanese pull saws, backsaws, ONE cheap handsaw, one expensive cabinet makers saw and a large one person bucking saw meant for timber framing work.