/diy/ - Do It Yourself

[Anonymous No.1578618]

Just started welding a few weeks ago, using gasless mig, only welding uncoated steel.

2 days got sudden flu symptoms, so I'm thinking it was metal fume fever, but I never welded or grinded galvanized steel.

So what do you guys think, can you get sick from grinding/welding without a respirator?

[Anonymous No.1578631]

>>1578618
>can you get sick from grinding/welding without a respirator?
Yes, in all sorts of ways. "Metal fume fever" can be caused by several kinds of metal you may encounter in plating or alloys, not just zinc, and unlike zinc, most of the others are actually harmful. And welding can produce various other kinds of fumes with various health risks. Generally, you should never breathe welding fumes, and should always have good ventilation regardless of what process you're using. Flux core is very smoky, and should be done outside or next to a fume extractor. If the kleenex is black when you blow your nose, you should also be wearing a respirator.

>using gasless mig
>gasless metal inert gas
You're using gasless flux core, anon.

[MrCrummy No.1578646]

Smoke from stick and fluxcore welding is really bad for you, don't inhale that shit.
Mig and tig arent bad long as the metal is clean

[Milwaukee No.1578648]

>>1578618

im a full time welder and by full time ive welded every day for the last 20 years, spent the majority of my life in a welding/mechanic shop with plasma tables and multiple people welding at any given time. never once have i wore a respirator, and not once have i ever seen someone wearing a respirator. nobody has gotten "metal fume fever". ive never even heard of that

unless youre welding with galvanized, dont fuck around with that shit always use the proper breathing gear

[Anonymous No.1578660]

>>1578648
I don't know, maybe it's a coincidence. Maybe I'll see a doctor.

[Anonymous No.1578684]

>>1578660
When I get fume fever (it was always from zinc and always mild), symptoms start within a few hours of welding and lasted a couple hours. I don't know how it'd be different for different fumes, but if it lasts more than 2 days, you should see a doctor.
And buy a respirator, they're not expensive, the 3M 6000 series are good and can be had for like $10.

[Anonymous No.1578691]

>>1578648
This is the same retard who wants you to pull guards off you grinder.
Larper or lucky and stupid, regardless it's objectively bad advice

[Anonymous No.1578697]

>>1578618
I run an engineering firm. None of our men have really ever worn respirators unless the specific job requires it.

With that said, the HSE (UK) have recently decided that anybody welding even mild steel now has to use either suitable fume extraction or (preferably) air-fed welding masks, as they have decided that they now have evidence to suggest that even mild steel welding fumes cause lung cancer and potentially kidney problems.

I haven't seen this evidence or anything, but that's what the fun-police in the UK are now saying. Although we do also need a licence to use a knife and fork, so make of that what you will.

I suppose some people may be more sensitive to fumes as well, so maybe it's that.

[Anonymous No.1578699]

>>1578697
I should add that I have never seen or heard of anybody with 'metal fume fever' either, at least not when welding mild steel.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, I've just never seen it in a couple of decades in this game.

[Anonymous No.1578701]

>>1578631
The last 3 lines of this post are the most important lines ITT.

Obv op should wear a mask, but if you don’t give proper information surrounding your problem, no one can properly help

[Anonymous No.1578704]

>>1578646
Mig / metal core is far worse. Different filler metals used. The smoke from fcaw and smaw are basically just pure carbon from the flux. Whereas mig ia more just vaporized metal.

[Anonymous No.1578732]

>>1578697
Dad, is that you???

[Anonymous No.1578734]

>>1578618
I just started trying autobody. Sanded a lot of body filler without a mask. Woke up with a sore throat, but it turned out to just be a coincidence and I have a fever.

[Anonymous No.1578828]

>>1578699
>at least not when welding mild steel
That's because mild steel doesn't contain anything that causes it, and neither do the fillers commonly used with it. OP's symptoms are probably due to some other contaminant, but the prevention in either case is the same.

[Anonymous No.1578832]

>>1578646
>Mig and tig arent bad long as the metal is clean
Situational. They both produce ozone, which can build up enough to be a problem if you're in a confined space. And though mild steel doesn't produce hazardous fumes, stainless does. TIG shouldn't usually be an issue there even then, but short-circuit MIG produces enough to be cautious about, and spray MIG puts out enough hex chrome that it should be used with a fume extractor or respirator.

[Anonymous No.1578839]

Not OP, but would you guys say a positive pressure mask is worth the money? In welding school right now and we use a lot of 6010 for pipe, that shit can get real rough and smoky some times.

[Anonymous No.1578896]

>>1578648
>There's always one contrarian faget that claims to never take precautions and has never had a day off work for the last 300 years
Hi, faget.

[Anonymous No.1578897]

>>1578697
>uses the "loicence" meme
>expects to be taken seriously
Good luck with that.

[Anonymous No.1578907]

>>1578697
When I was learning how to weld (at a community college) there was a giant fume extractor that went into every booth.
It actually broke and took like 2 weeks to finally get it repaired.

It may have been placebo, but it certainly seemed to make me feel shittier by the time I went home.
It wouldnt surprise me in the least bit if it is horrible for you.

[Anonymous No.1578932]

When i first started welding was doing galvanised metal and got that its horrible goes a day later i found, arc eye is a cunt as well. If you are welding galvanised all day my teacher said you should drink a glass of milk to help your stomach lining

[Anonymous No.1579013]

>>1578932
>If you are welding galvanised all day my teacher said you should drink a glass of milk to help your stomach lining

Heavy metals get into your bloodstream through your lungs causing the ill effects.
Why would your stomach lining have anything to do with that?

You eating slag all day?

[Anonymous No.1579028]

>>1578618
Drink milk with some lemon in it to prevent zinc flu, old tyme trick. Weld in the open if possible. God whatever the fuck you do, dont clean the metal with brake cleaner and inhale that weld fume. It will kill you in a breath. Use acetone and gloves to clean metal

[Anonymous No.1579045]

>>1579028
acetone is fairly benign. it's only 4 times more poisonous than ethanol. you can drink it if you're feeling not retarded enough. same with IPA.

[Anonymous No.1579048]

>>1578839
Depends on what you're doing, naturally.
>6010 for pipe
No. If regular ventilation isn't keeping the air clear enough for you, use a normal particulate respirator. The main respiratory hazard of stick smoke is from particulates, which can be filtered out without much trouble using a standard respirator. A positive pressure mask is for situations that need extra-rigorous filtering, like working with volatile chemicals, airborne biohazards, or extreme levels of particulates. So if you had to stick weld INSIDE a pipe, maybe.

[Anonymous No.1579093]

>>1578618
honeywell north vs 3m vs miller which respirator?

[Anonymous No.1579109]

>>1579093
I went with the Miller low profile simply because it fits under the helmet the best.

[MrCrummy No.1579149]

>>1578704
Both mig and fluxcore use the same metal for welding steel, er70s2 or er70s6.
Why would solid wire be worse than fluxcore?
>metal with no flux is worse than metal with flux
Please go into detail here lol

[MrCrummy No.1579150]

>>1579109
The filters cost too much and they dont have organic vapor protection, the 3m filters are easier to breath and have vapor protection and ozone protections, as well as costing half as much.
They also fit perfectly under all my helmets.
The Miller is inferior in every way to the 3m.

[Milwaukee No.1579157]

>>1578691

i never told anyone to take the guards off their grinder.

i said, and still say, if you think that the guard is useful on a grinder then you need to keep it on. once you get passed the fear of using a grinder, you no longer consider the guard to be anything other than an annoyance. there should be no reason for the guard to ever be neccessary.

people who have used a grinder once or twice and cut like mongols kicking the grinder back towards themselves, or bending the wheel, spinning it perpendicular to their body/faces. if this is you, keep the guard on because yea its going to save you some pain.

when youre comfortable using a grinder, only ever cut or grind (more important when cutting) with the wheel spinning paralell to your body, hold the grinder out while being prepared for it to grab at any time. dont try to cut circles, and if theres any doubt of the integrity of the wheel chuck it. it literally is not possible for the grinder to hurt you.

ive spent thousands of hours on a grinder, i use one at work and at home every day, sometimes almost all day when wire wheeling/prepping something big. never with a guard, never with a handle. i have had a few close calls, but i learned from them and i am confident to say i will never get majorly hurt by an angle grinder. i respect it and dont give it the opportunity to do damage. i wont run one without safety glasses though

pic related; me larping with a d6n in the air for a double track/rail swap and a d7r for electrical issues and weld up/linebore some hardbar pin holes

[Anonymous No.1579241]

>>1579157
>i never told anyone to take the guards off their grinder.

>proceeds to write a novel shaming everyone into taking guards off their grinder

Pottery

[Anonymous No.1579302]

>>1579157
All you do is structural welding. Don't post until you welded inch thick plate overhead with an eighth inch open root.

[Anonymous No.1579406]

I've done a lot of grinding with an angle grinder, and i'm quite aware that a desintegrating disk won't actually have that much energy. I'm not afraid of a grinder, i'm merely pretty much exactly aware of how dangerous it is.

Yet i sometimes value having a guard. I've done pretty weird shit with a grinder, including precision trimming of pre-hardened high speed steel stock. The shit is so hard that the surface grinder i used at the time would take 10-20min to grind off an excess millimeter, so i rather tried to be accurate with my angle grinder and only left like 0.5mm on the stock to grind off on the precision surface grinder. I like to get my face close to the work and look exactly where i'm cutting in that case, and i wouldn't do that without a guard.

Also sometimes you might be in a really awkward spot, for example i once cut off major parts of a car chassis to then weld it back onto some other car, and i didn't really have much of a choice regarding angle grinder positioning. So yeah, kinda want a guard between my face and the disk while under the car.

If you have a piece of flatbar in your vise and you're grinding on a bevel to weld it on, yeah sure fuck that guard. Just tilt the disk out of your face.

So i'm not the guy who yells at people for not using a guard and tells them they'll DIE soon, but i'm also not the guy who throws away his guards. Ideally i would like a guard that can be easily and quickly adjusted and snapped off with some quick release lever. No screw on bullshit. And maybe a holder on the grinder itself where you can stick the guard on when you decide you want to take it off because what you're doing is safe and if the guard is in the way. But most grinders don't have that, you need a screw to remove the guard, so i just leave it on. But usually so loose that i can slide it easily to where it needs to be. Seems like sensible safety devices aren't a thing, and i can totally get the gripes about them.

[Anonymous No.1579438]

>>1579157
>>i never told anyone to take the guards off their grinder.

>>proceeds to write a novel shaming everyone into taking guards off their grinder

>Pottery

Unless it is specifically my job to supervise someone inexperienced, i will NEVER shame anyone. I might make a recommendation, and tell them how and why i do it, but i would never shame anyone. You're a bit dense, aren't you?

[Anonymous No.1579448]

>>1579438
I only wish I could be there when your arrogance bites you hard.
I can only imagine what other sort of risks you take, seeing how special you are.

You are the epitome of tradesworkers who are broken down and disabled in their late 30s. I pity anyone who have to listen to your recommendations about anything.

[Anonymous No.1579475]

>>1579448
>I only wish I could be there when your arrogance bites you hard.

You have some serious mental issues, but that is common for imageboard dwellers. You should work on yourself. I've not shown anything beyond knowledge, experience, and a healthy amount of self confidence in my post. In fact, i've specifically avoided telling other people what to do, i merely stated how i do things and elaborated why.

If you interpret this as arrogance, man, you got issues to work out. Unless you work these issues out, you will NEVER have a steady job, you will NEVER have a serious relationship. Trust me man, been there, done that.

>I can only imagine what other sort of risks you take, seeing how special you are.

>You are the epitome of tradesworkers

I'm not a "tradesworker". Never have been.

>who are broken down and disabled in their late 30s.

I'm already in my 30s. I've never ever hurt myself on any powertool despite having used any powertool you can imagine.

>I pity anyone who have to listen to your recommendations about anything.

I pity you. You have a long way to go. I hope you're still young, so that there is still time to pull your life and your character around. You're in a dark place.

[Anonymous No.1579495]

>>1579157
>never with a guard, never with a handle
I can kinda get the no guard thing, but why do handles always get lumped in with guards as something to remove from grinders? Why would you make a tool less ergonomic?

[Anonymous No.1579498]

>>1579495
Because people are fucking retarded. If a grinder without a handle kicks you’re gonna have an extremely hard time hanging on to the thing

[Anonymous No.1579504]

>>1579475
> I've not shown anything beyond knowledge, experience, and a healthy amount of self confidence in my post

Youve posted objectively bad, unsafe advice.
Surprise surprise, people dont like that sort of thing. Especially when you imply you are teaching bad habits to others on the job.

Deflecting isnt going to make what you say less fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.1579507]

>>1579495
>Why would you make a tool less ergonomic?

Knowledge, experience, and healthy amounts of self confidence. Those alone can make you say "i am confident to say i will never get majorly hurt by an angle grinder"

[Anonymous No.1579509]

>>1579507
What does that have to do with ergonomics?

[Anonymous No.1579512]

>>1579509
You dont need ergonomics when youve already won the mental game anon.
It can feel your confidence, your courage, your experience with the beast.

It wouldnt dare kick back with you at the helm

[Milwaukee No.1579799]

>>1579498

im extremely confused now, all of the posts after the shame-romance novel about guards werent me, but im glad theres someone who gets it.

the reason i "shame" (get hurt feelings the fuck more) is because every time someone brings up how i prefer no guards, they go full REEE and call me a retard, example above. im very rarely a cunt unjustified, so if im being a dick you probably either instigated it or im confusing you for someone else.

>Because people are fucking retarded. If a grinder without a handle kicks you’re gonna have an extremely hard time hanging on to the thing

grinders kick all the fucking time, maybe if you werent such a nancy and knew how to handle a grinder you would be able to hang on to it when it kicks. i have no problems, but again i dont let the grinder kick towards me. if it kicks it pulls itself away.

thank you for proving my point, you clearly cut the wrong direction, the grinder kicks towards you, hence the handle has a meaningful purpose. keep it on. fucking retard. and maybe learn to use a grinder properly instead of putting your fingers in your ears and screaming like some dumb fuck moron idiot, fucktard.

>>1579512

>the beast

holy fuck its a grinder not cthulu, larper, clam down

>It wouldnt dare kick back with you at the helm

again, they kick all the fucking time. but not backwards because i dont let it, that would mean im not using it properly. it should only ever pull away from you. thanks for proving you dont know your head from your asshole

[Milwaukee No.1579803]

>>1579302

news flash i do almost no structural welding

i dont often have to weld inch plate overhead because im not retarded and theres almost always a way to get it flat to weld. i do anything from ground up fabrication of implements, fifth wheel systems, repairing fuel/hydraulic tanks, undercarriage work, pressurized pipe, i literally never know what my boss is going to come up with. i dont have a clue what the next job is gonna be, there is no defined genre for my job. anyways im more of a mechanic than a welder so to say i do only structural welding is just plain inaccurate.

heres a case where i couldnt thick plate in the flat position, 138 or something i forget teeth i refit on an asphalt grinder drum. first they were air gouged off, cleaned up and welded back on following a very specific procedure so they dont break off under the ridiculous loads the drum sees, and to prevent warping of the drum. to weld 138 of these with no warp of the drum is far beyond your shadetree skillset so fuck off guy. oh theyre 1 1/4 plate almost a foot long

[Milwaukee No.1579805]

>>1579302 #

news flash i do almost no structural welding

i dont often have to weld inch plate overhead because im not retarded and theres almost always a way to get it flat to weld. i do anything from ground up fabrication of implements, fifth wheel systems, repairing fuel/hydraulic tanks, undercarriage work, pressurized pipe, i literally never know what my boss is going to come up with. i dont have a clue what the next job is gonna be, there is no defined genre for my job. anyways im more of a mechanic than a welder so to say i do only structural welding is just plain inaccurate.

heres a case where i had to weld overhead and vertical. 1 1/4 thick plate, about a foot long times 138 or something i forget teeth i refit on an asphalt grinder drum. first they were air gouged off, drum cleaned up and new oneswelded back on following a very specific procedure so they dont break off under the ridiculous loads the drum sees, and to prevent warping. to weld 138 of these with no warp of the drum is far beyond your shadetree skillset so fuck off guy.

[Anonymous No.1579826]

>>1579799
>people "reeeeee" every time I tell them I don't wear a seatbelt and take the airbags out of my cars
>if only they knew how to drive!
>I can confidently say I'll never get into a car accident!

[Anonymous No.1579865]

>>1579504
>Youve posted objectively bad, unsafe advice.

I've never given any advice. I merely stated what I personally do and why. This is clearly not advice.

>Especially when you imply you are teaching bad habits to others on the job.

I did not imply, but outright STATE that i teach THE OPPOSITE to people i teach on the job. I demand that novice people whom i might show how to use tools like an angle grinder wear proper eye protection, use ear protection, wear gloves, and yes, use a guard on their grinder which is appropriately aligned for the work they do.

If on the other hand they're experienced, it is not my business to tell them what to do. They're responsable for their own safety. I would never criticise someone for using more safety equipment than i deem necessary, in fact i'm quite paranoid myself when it comes to breathing in shit or getting shit on my skin, so i'll wear gloves and a mask way before most other people would. I'm also paranoid with ear protection and often wear it all day in a shop even if the loud noises only pop up occasionally. Still, i do not need a guard on my angle grinder most of the time and still feel perfectly safe.

>Deflecting isnt going to make what you say less fucking retarded.

I am not deflecting. I can't help but think how sad your existance must be, and it honestl y depresses me. I geniunely wish that you'll one day stop being so bitter and so full with prejudice. And for the love of god, start thinking on your own.

[Anonymous No.1579868]

>>1579013
Your lungs clean themselves and whatever trash gets pushed out goes down your throat. Zinc oxide from your lungs turns into zinc chloride in your stomach, which is bad news. Fats and proteins precipitate soluble metals. Milk is legit.

[Anonymous No.1579885]

>>1579868
>Fats and proteins precipitate soluble metals. Milk is legit.
More details on that? I heard drinking milk was good for the headaches from welding but I thought it was just a common superstition.

[Anonymous No.1580109]

>>1579028
Can confirm, old hands do this and it has helped me but I only had milk at the time

[Anonymous No.1580326]

You grinder guard sissies are fags, and i have MATH to prove it.

To calculate the stored energy in a grinding disc, we can use this formular:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/rke.html

Here is a calculator:

https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/rotational-kinetic-energy

Let's assume a standard 125mm cut-off disk with 2.5mm of thickness. That's 5" diameter. The weight of a disc is about 50 gramms.

For the moment of inertia, we need this formular:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia

(Solid cylinder) Ix = 1/2m (3r2+h2)

50 gramms = 0.05kg
r = 125mm d / 2 = 0.0625m
h = 2.5mm = 0.0025m

1/12*0.05*(3*0.06252+0.00252) = 0.00004885416 kg/m2

Now if we feed that and 12000 rpm into the formular above or the calculator, we get 38.57 Joule of total energy stored in a grinding disc.

A non-lethal beanbag round weighs 40gr and travels at 90m/s which equals to 150 Joules, and beanbags are much smaller than a grinding disc.

Even a pellet gun with 15-20J is more dangerous, as the pellet is tiny and out of dense lead (11.34 g/cm3) while our grinding disc is out of lightweight aluminium oxide and fiber reinforcement with a density of 2-3g/cm3 which is 1/4th of lead.

Also the grinding disc will never come apart and somehow fling all parts directly at the person using the grinder, one will only be hit by maybe 20-30% of the disc, so approximately 10J of energy spread on a large surface area

tl;dr math says grinding discs are entirely harmless

[Anonymous No.1580327]

You grinder guard sissies are fags, and i have MATH to prove it.
To calculate the stored energy in a grinding disc, we can use this formular:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/rke.html

Here is a calculator:

https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/rotational-kinetic-energy

Let's assume a standard 125mm cut-off disk with 2.5mm of thickness. That's 5" diameter. The weight of a disc is about 50 gramms.
For the moment of inertia, we need this formular:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia

(Solid cylinder) Ix = 1/2m (3r2+h2)

50 gramms = 0.05kg
r = 125mm d / 2 = 0.0625m
h = 2.5mm = 0.0025m

1/12*0.05*(3*0.06252+0.00252) = 0.00004885416 kg/m2

Now if we feed that and 12000 rpm into the formular above or the calculator, we get 38.57 Joule of total energy stored in a grinding disc.
A non-lethal beanbag round weighs 40gr and travels at 90m/s which equals to 150 Joules, and beanbags are much smaller than a grinding disc.
Even a pellet gun with 15-20J is more dangerous, as the pellet is tiny and out of dense lead (11.34 g/cm3) while our grinding disc is out of lightweight aluminium oxide and fiber reinforcement with a density of 2-3g/cm3 which is 1/4th of lead.
Also the grinding disc will never come apart and somehow fling all parts directly at the person using the grinder, one will only be hit by maybe 20-30% of the disc, so approximately 10J of energy spread on a large surface area

tl;dr math says grinding discs are entirely harmless

[Anonymous No.1580353]

>>1580327
Let's go with the 10J figure. That's just over the energy of one kilogram falling one meter in Earth surface gravity. So lie on the floor and have someone drop a framing hammer on your face claw-first. Would you want a guard in between your face and that?

[Anonymous No.1580354]

>>1579028
I did not know this and as a mechanic I use brake clean for everything. I will say I'm not dead so you exaggerate, but I'll take this advice from now on regardless.

[Anonymous No.1580357]

>>1579157
I don't actually know anyone that runs them with the gaurd on desu.
Also>>1579241
>shames a guy for not using thing
>gets mad when guy explains his reasons

Just kek

[Anonymous No.1580359]

>>1578701
>gasless mig, although incorrect, is a pretty common term among non-welders
>everyone in this thread seems to pick up on the fact that OP meant flux core
>first post answers the question and politely corrects OP
>you just piggyback off the most minor detail, reiterating it for absolutely no reason

You aren't by any chance an e6 in the US military, are you? Because you've got "it."

[MrCrummy No.1580535]

>>1580354
Only the chlorinated ones will hurt you, 95% of brake cleaner is non chlorinated.

[Anonymous No.1580680]

>>1578618
Breathing any kind of microscopic dust is bad for you, dude. Especially if it's not the sort of thing that your body can just dissolve.