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1422007 No.1422007 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

I'm interested in getting into stick/TIG welding and I'm looking at the basic Everlast machines.
There's the 200ST which is DC only for $400 and the 185DV which is AC/DC for $800.
I don't really have any plans for extensive aluminum AC TIG welding so I think I would be fine with just DC TIG.
Is AC TIG really worth it?

>> No.1422029

Harbor freight flux core is a great first welder... messy but it works well.

You can move on to mig/tig as your skills improve. Mine haven’t.

>> No.1422239

Everlast is shit shilled by youtubers who got them for free, not because they are good machines.

Also TIG is not cheap, scratch start DC only tig is worthless.
Buy yourself a straight up basic stick welder because they are cheap, then save up and buy a proper tig with AC capabilities and all the other useful features.

Youll be glad you did in the long run instead of wasting money on a mediocre machine you will inevitably replace with 2 other machines.

>> No.1422274

So what's your experience with them?
I have a powertig 200DX and it has done quite well. About 300 hours just tig welding stainless and about 500 running stick on it this year. Some aluminum welding as well on small projects.
Everlast are decent enough inverter machines, especially for hobby users when there is no need to get a full professional setup.
AC is not just for TIG and is something that is nice to have for the few times you need it.

>> No.1422469

Everlast/Vulcan don't make any sense to me, they aren't much cheaper than the comparable Lincolns/Millers. The number 1 thing for me is being able to buy parts for the welder. If you can't easily buy replacement parts it's not worth saving the few hundred bucks, especially if you plan on owning it for 10 years+. Just bite the bullet and get the Lincoln/Miller/Hobart.

>> No.1422492

As the owner of an AC tig machine, no. High quality aluminum is expensive and I see no reason for a DIY'er to ever need it. You can barely tig the aluminum in hardware stores cause it's pot aluminum and super shit.

I can however recommend getting a tig rig for sure. Welding in the shop with the AC going? Hell yes. I mean yeah you can do that with mig and stick but too damn smokey really. I really recommenced going with a Lincoln Square Wave. $1500 shipped off the net. We have one at work and it's a great machine. It's twice the price of everything you're looking at, however there is a saying I've learned to live by. Buy once, cry once. At least if shit goes wrong with the machine it's covered. The Square Wave we got died day 2 of using it, and a Lincoln rep came out within 24 hours and replaced the machine. Good luck with Chinese shit doing that.

I own an Alpha Tig 200x at my home. Phenomenal machine I love it, I have one of the top 3 reviews on the product page on Amazon praising it. It's really hard for me to tell someone to spend twice the money to go with a Lincoln with less features, or 4x the money and go with a Miller that's the same. It's your call and if I had the money I would go with those 2, however I doubt you'll be disappointed with a chink machine. There's just always that unnerving feeling that if something goes wrong and you have to replace it, that your replacement money on another chink machine would have you level money wise with a quality name brand machine, or if you go with name brand the second time you're even more in the hole. It's a risk to take.

>> No.1422497

Also to piggy back on what >>1422274 said. When stick welding with my AHP, I have moved over to AC stick welding once when I was having arc blow life really bad for some reason. It was super useful to have in that situation and I'm thankful it was there.

>> No.1422500

You figure out the cause of blow?
A lot of my work is reapir work on equipment. As a utility contractor ~50% of our equipment is magnetised to some degree so AC is quite handy to have.

>> No.1422501

used lincoln. there is always some boomer who bought a full rig and barely used it offloading his shit on craigslist. just browse the tools section once a day for a full year, you'll find him.

>> No.1422506

No just recognized what was going on, switched and finished. I'm not a very seasoned welder and I haven't even thought of materiel being magnetized causing it. If I ever run into it again I'll have to look into what's causing it more thoroughly.

>> No.1422508

>Everlast is shit shilled by youtubers who got them for free
Sure bud, break the electronics down and highlight exactly why its circuitry does the job worse then memecon electric.

>> No.1422516

Yeah I feel the same way about this.

I've heard this before and I fully believe with the shitty Lincoln we got that one day. When you get a new inverter machine run the piss out of it welding anything just to get time on the machine. If an inverter is going to break it's going to break in the first hour or few hours of run time. I don't know how true this is, but it was true in my case.

>> No.1422525
File: 446 KB, 300x186, this.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

buy a chinesium inverter they work just fine and if they die, just get a new one.

>> No.1422528

200st is worth it. I bought one and have been very impressed. Damn thing has one of the strongest arcs I’ve ever seen

>> No.1422529
File: 73 KB, 622x477, 2dpjp0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.1422531

Also I like the 200st enough that I went and bought one of their plasma cutters which has also been fine and worked good but haven’t owned it long

>> No.1422554

>I have a powertig 200DX

Whats your youtube channel?

>why are chinked inverter machines worse than a traditional high quality transformer machine.

I cant believe im having this conversation.

>> No.1422556

Everlasts cost 60-70% of a lincoln or a miller, they arent even cheap.
Why buy a shitty machine that wont last when you can buy one that will last you 20+ years?

Being fucking retarded with your money. But hey, their marketing game on youtube is strong.

>> No.1422559


You think the simple inverter ciruits in a Lincoln electric are somehow inseparable from the brand? I can guarantee you, that everlast has replicated its specifications, and abilities to an exact degree. Its been what, 30 fucking years since they started coming out? They got competition now.

>> No.1422569


What? Not the guy you're responding to, but anyone that has ever actually welded anything would not say that. God damn Anon. Just God damn.

>> No.1422570


You are either 12, or an actual shill pretending this 2009 esque teen talk is relevant.

>You think the simple inverter ciruits in a Lincoln electric are somehow inseparable from the brand?

You do realize that the "inverter circuits" in these cheap machines is where the power is generation right?
Its a bandaid for lack of proper transformer power.
The traditional transformer machines dont use inverter circuits, they use a traditional transformer which is why they are more expensive (and more reliable, robust, smoother, higher duty cycle)
The high end machines that do have electronics in them have nothing to do with inverting power. They can steal that design all they want when their powerplant is trash.

You are fucking clueless. Its cheaper for a reason.

>> No.1422574

WOW, a fucking transformer, wire wrapped around some stacked plates, how fucking difficult is that to replicate.

Ill give you a hint, it isnt.

>> No.1422575

inverters won't last as long sure but they are pretty fucking nice. FAR more efficient, and light enough to be pretty damn portable. everyone likes to shit on Everlast but for the price you really can't go wrong and they aren't any better or worse then Miller inverters. hell i've seen about a dozen Miller inverters dead right out of the box and only 1 Everlast

funny thing is most people here probably haven't actually used any of these machines and are just going by what some faggot youtuber told them they should think

>> No.1422576

>how fucking difficult is that to replicate.

Its not hard at all, its expensive because of all the copper you need.
The chinese of course chink out and use small transformers that physically cannot run a welding rod, they run the electricity through an "inverter" circuit to boost it.
It creates an "ok" weld for less money. And suckers eat it up because they save a few bucks. Ignore the fact you can buy 50 year old transformer welders that were used daily for years. Much like a proper standard transformer machine would do today.

Instead you are relying on literal chink computer garbage to generate and run your welds. And you expect it to last?
Good job, you fucked yourself by being a jew anon. I sure hope youve got a youtube channel!

>> No.1422578

I go by the conventional wisdom of "buy it nice, or the chink will take your money twice"
No I havent used an inverter machine, I started with proper welders in school and decided to save up 1 extra paycheck to buy a real machine.

>> No.1422579

You talk some intelligent sounding game but for the price range, 30 lbs of copper wouldnt hold that much of an impact on final price point. The amount of copper, and its resulting cost is essentially negligible in these rigs, and its not something they would cheap out on. What you're making her is an assumption, and its a fairly retarded assumption, based on your own preexisting bias towards "american made" garbage.

>> No.1422581

Its not an assumption, its fact. The only difference between an inverter machine and a traditional machine is the transformer. Do some research instead of blindly trying to justify your purchase.

>> No.1422583

you do realize all the major brands make inverter units right?

well you should really give one a try. i own plenty of both machines and the inverters have WAY nicer arcs. a chink Everlast is really not much different then a chink miller, only real difference is the price tag and every little extra feature will cost you an extra $1000

>> No.1422584

>do some research
lol, no. I dont give enough fucks about this to justify pouring over these minute differences, but the simple fact is, that the transformers cost is negligible, no matter the size. So from a simply rational perspective it wouldnt make sense for them to break a product to save a buck 20 in copper costs.

Theres no difference between the abilities of these machines, you can call these youtubers shills, but Ive seen a number of professional welders use everlast, and hold no qualms towards them, and to add to that Ive seen the results.

You're full of shit, plain and simple.

>> No.1422585

>Ive seen a number of professional welders use everlast

that's because they are the high end chink machines and decent enough to warrant attention. go try one of the $200 chink machines and you'll see the difference pretty fucking quick

>> No.1422587

lmao way to assume bud. Im talking about the higher end, full spec machines.

Nice cop out though. You're still an idiot.

>> No.1422590

>I dont give enough fucks about this to justify pouring over these minute differences,

>I dont know what I am talking about, I refuse to research what I am talking about, I refute others who do know what they are talking about

And for what anon? To think you made a great purchase and nothing else in the world could ever be a better one?
Being willingly ignorant isnt going to get you very far.

>> No.1422592

>that's because they are the high end chink machines and decent enough to warrant attention

No its because a lot of shop owners are cheap fucks

>> No.1422593

Ill bite, show me quantitatively, that the transformers are cheaped out on and that the everlast machines are lacking in terms of ability.

>> No.1422595

wtf are you even talking about?

nope not when it comes to welding. i don't know a single shop around here that buys a cheap machine just because it's cheap. when you depend on it to make a living you buy the best one for your application

>> No.1422596

You know what Im talking about you stupid fuck. Show me exactly where, in terms of wave form, and power output where everlast machines are lacking.

>> No.1422597

>i need someone to explain to me why using a cheap transformer and a cheap chinese boost converter board to generate hundreds of amps is worse than using a dead simple large beefy transformer

Showing your true colors anon

>where everlast machines are lacking.

The simple fact that they are inverter machines anon. It was an evolution in technology to make it cheaper, not better.

>> No.1422598

>i don't know a single shop around here that buys a cheap machine just because it's cheap

You obviously do if you know a bunch of faggots buying everlast machines.
Ive never seen one in the wild.

>> No.1422599

Thats not enough. Show me numerically, how the everlast numbers stack up against memcon electric machines, you shaft sucking fucking moron.

>> No.1422603

>Thats not enough

To do what?
Convince some 16 year old who bought an everlast machine because some fat faggot with a mustache and some bucktooth faggot on youtube said they were good?

I take solace in the fact that after you cool down and this thread is long 404ed youll go off and research it.
In the end less ignorant people is all that matters right?

>> No.1422604

i agreed with you you think fucking faggot.

>It was an evolution in technology to make it cheaper, not better.

then why does literally every major welding company use inverters? you even admit you've never tried one so really you're just talking out your ass at this point

again you're showing your ignorance. it's dumb faggots like you ruining this board for everyone

>> No.1422605

I dont even own one you silly fuck, I just get pissed off by brand faggotry and baseless assumptions about other brands performances, that are rooted in tribalistic tendencies, and not empirical evidence.

and no I wont be researching anything after this thread gets dumped by /diy/s admin because he doesnt like conflict or the word nigger.

>> No.1422607

sorry anon bro, didnt realize you werent the lincoln electric cock smoker.

>> No.1422611

>then why does literally every major welding company use inverters?

Why does every major company sell different specced machines at different price points?
Hmm I dont know anon, why would they do that?
Have you noticed how every single top of the line machine doesnt actually use them?
Unless of course you are buying from a chink company.

>, I just get pissed off by brand faggotry and baseless assumptions about other brands performances

Its not a baseless assumption, its an inferior technology through and through. There is no refuting in the welding world that they are more reliable and robust and have better duty cycles. The only question is ever about the price.
Are you willing to have a shittier machine for less money, or are you willing to buy a machine that will run 100% duty cycle for 20 years in a shop?

You are crusading on something you know nothing about. You seem pretty hyped up about a company for a product you dont actually own.

I dont own any Lincolns anon, but im sure you can find some sort of play on words for Miller!

>> No.1422613
File: 152 KB, 1200x827, 160D.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Have had a Lincoln AC-225 for 45 years
Bought pic related for $150 delivered a few weeks ago.
- works great, I'm happy with it
>four rods included

>> No.1422617

>Have you noticed how every single top of the line machine doesnt actually use them?

well no fucking shit industrial machines don't use them since they are fucking fixed position machines that NEVER move. at this point i'm convinced you're just a fucking shill trying to make his 10 cents. you should really have your company rep give you some education before sending you out to run your mouth

>> No.1422621

And people that obviously do this for a living continue to call you out on your shit, you pedantic moron.

I can almost guarantee you that you have significant amounts of grey hair and are irrevocably set in your ways.

>> No.1422626

Miller doesn't even sell a transformer stick welder under $5k now. Lincoln still does but I expect it to be gone soon. Inverter TIG welder are the only way to go nowadays. You don't know what you are talking about.

>> No.1422627

>And people that obviously do this for a living continue to call you out on your shit

The only person "calling me out" is you, and some idiot who already admitted he didnt know what he was talking about and didnt own a machine, just wanted to fight for no reason.

>well no fucking shit industrial machines don't use them since they are fucking fixed position machines that NEVER move

I wasnt talking giant industrial machines or generator machines, I was talking your standard 210-280 amp machines that your typical small welding shop has.

>at this point i'm convinced you're just a fucking shill trying to make his 10 cents.
Funny as Im feeling the same way.
Somehow we have lincoln and miller dealers locally, servicemen driving around in trucks to service and keep our machines at work running. Time is money and downtime is killer.

Yet somehow these cheap green inverter machines are infiltrating shops everywhere! You have to email guandong china and hope they service the machines and have a lot of downtime, but Pros use them now! All while costing 70% of what a real machine would.

Get the fuck out of here, There are a few machines where I work that have been used for 20+ years.

>> No.1422628

>confusing inverter technology with having electronics in your welder


>> No.1422630

What are you talking about then? You're here shitting on inverters in half your posts now you make this retarded post. What are you trying to prove here?

>> No.1422635
File: 65 KB, 720x768, 30yoboomer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>this thread

>> No.1422636

I picked up a good working Lincoln electric AC 225 for $50. The guy threw in a stand and a box of 50 electrodes to boot.

>> No.1422637

Im curious about this too, what are you even trying to prove at this point?

You dont seriously conflate your tools with your own personal self worth, do you?

>> No.1422642

>I was talking your standard 210-280 amp machines that your typical small welding shop has.

Yep and most of those are now inverter units. Seriously just stop before you embarrass yourself further

>> No.1422644

Not bad. Never liked those units due to the taps tho. Much prefer the infinite dials especially with stick

>> No.1422826

I got a miller thunderbolt ac (horizontal) w/~30 lbs of 6012(!?!) 1/8 rod for $50 on the second day of an estate sale, luckiest find I've had yet. also came with ~20 ft of rubber #0 cable

>> No.1422842

what do you want to weld with it?
you said something about aluminium. you will need AC or DC with the option to switch plus/minus on the cables. you will also need more power for aluminium, depending on how thick it is, but i would not buy anything under 200A. with aluminium welding the tungsten gets "overloaded" on purpose because you will need AC or DC with minus on the tungsten. watercooled handles work best here. you will need a machine with more options then normal to make good weldings (changing plus/minus balance for AC machines, for example).

inform yourself what you need excactly and buy a machine that can do it.

>> No.1422845

>The traditional transformer machines dont use inverter circuits, they use a traditional transformer which is why they are more expensive (and more reliable, robust, smoother, higher duty cycle)
inefficient, heavy, overrated, overpriced.

>> No.1422846

I have a chink stick welder, at the price I got it I can get it again 4 or 5 times before I get the price of a fronius.

>> No.1422857

me again
with aluminium you will need to change ampere quickly sometimes because the heat travels fast in aluminium. a footpedal works best for me. maybe you want to buy a machine where you can add a pedal. it's not a must but nice to have.

>> No.1422897

to all the chink machine welder here
my advice is to get a proper machine from the start for tig welding. stick welding can be good too with a cheap machine.
but always keep your own safety in mind. you work with electricity here. you don't want to end up in a hospital because your cheap machine is not isolated correctly or catch fire and burns your house down. chinese products often lack safety.

problem with cheap tig machines is that they lack lots of options. you can weld with it, yes of course, but once you change to a pro machine you will be overwhelmed by the options. it's better to learn it properly from the start especially when you want to weld stainless steel or aluminium. for normal steel a cheap machine can be ok too.
it all depends on what you want to do with it.

this only applies to people who really want to learn it and not people who weld in their backyard for fun.

>> No.1422977

That’s true for cheap units but the better chunk units generally have far more features for the price. Do stay away from those all in one multi process units tho. They seem nice but don’t hold up no matter the brand

>> No.1422984

How many amps should I buy for babbies first stick welder?

>> No.1423096

At least 200. Anything smaller will leaving you want more later.

>> No.1424540

I have an everlast 250 that's about 8 years old.

The big problem with it is that the HF restart spark is too aggressive and blows holes in thin sheet. And the pedal is a pile of shit. And it's noisy because the fan runs all the time.
But it was 1/2 the price of a miller.

>> No.1424544

Most of their newer units it’s are fan on demand

>> No.1424663

I've seen a lot of brand names in here but the only mention of Hobart was the 4th post. I've got hundreds, possibly over a thousand hours on my little Hobart handler 210 running mainly flux core wire and the thing is still going strong. Its about time for me to replace the gun but otherwise no complaints.

It might not be the most powerful machine but for farm/ranch use it has paid for itself many times over.

>> No.1424704

210 is a good unit but OP was asking about Stick and TIG and Hobart isn't really great for those units. i've heard the new DC stick units are decent but for the price you can get better features from other brands

honestly the biggest problem with Hobart is that they are held back so that they don't directly compete with Miller.

>> No.1425632
File: 375 KB, 472x302, Miller Maxstar 150.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Welding Engineer here and been a tig welder myself for years before I graduated.

For suggested machines, just like anything... It depends.

>What are you using the machine for?

Hobby welding at home / Art?

Just what you can afford and want to learn with. You'll get value out of practicing and learning the settings. This is most people who aren't doing welding for a living and just want to get started. I'd suggested staying away from anything structural (trailers, frames, ect) until you get more practice and education on cut/etch and weld structural integrity.

Side jobs / anything structural?

Get something more industrial and a decent range of power outputs. In this realm, you get what you pay for. The Millers and Lincolns are more expensive, but for good reason. There are some good machines out in the used market, but most are outdated and poorly kept or overpriced.

Production / exotic materials?

Anything outside of just DC increases the cost dramatically for anything decent. Some machines CAN run ac from the cheaper market, however, the arc is not as stable and doesn't hold up to the more expensive machines. The same goes for anything in the production realm. The duty cycle of the more expensive machines will keep you running so you don't have to wait 10-30 mins for the damn thing to cool down.

>> No.1425671
File: 12 KB, 236x236, usethewholestick.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

What could possibly go wrong

If you are going to get one of those may as well grab one from hazzard fraught or canodilian tyer.

>> No.1425672
File: 29 KB, 640x360, niceweld.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

wrong effing pic.

>> No.1425673

Does it leak? If not, looks good to me.

>> No.1425727

I get mine from industrial liquidations and estate sales but use the same lurking method you do, expanded to auction sites. Self and bro are wallowing in extra gear from lots we split up. Welders, lathes, mills, tooling, consumables...

I collect industrial gas cylinders the same way and know what I can exchange in advance so I only buy from companies Airgas bought out. (Amazingly my local Airgas don't suck). Fuck leasing cylinders unless you have to or are a high volume business. I have nitrogen (pressurizing auto AC systems beats vacuum and prayer for finding leaks before charging), acetylene, oxygen, MIG mix, argon and CO2. If you exchange old cylinders immediately you have time to wait for any needing hydro testing.

It's nice to be well equipped. BTW if you score any "balloon" helium cylinders you can swap those for welding helium cylinders (same valve) or for MIG mix or argon. The balloon regulator can have its balloon attachment replace with a brass air chuck and nipple swapped to CO2 style for powering pneumatic tools or emergency tire fills in the field. (Price a Powertank by comparison!)

Hunt cylinders then live in luxury. You can always sell 'em for more than you paid.

>> No.1425754

>"balloon" helium cylinders you can swap those for welding helium cylinders
the tall store ones right? not the little thin pink refrigerant looking ones?

i kicked myself for passing up a $20 nitrogen ~3ft tall one w/regulator at an estate sale from a guy that guaranteed that it could be exchanged

>> No.1425760

Their wire welders are rightly popular. Portability is a plus. If you need to do heavy stock just run more passes and preheat with a weed burner.

>> No.1425765

Go to a welding forum like


and learn the cylinder types and sizes. I'd have grabbed that nitrogen cylinder. Some suppliers will exchange "same valve" cylinders for other gases. I got several ex-Navy surplus nit cylinders and exchanged most of them. Nit is nice to have so I kept a couple as nit.

AVOID the little pink sheet metal shits. Those are disposable.

First thing to do is know your local suppliers and find out what they will swap. The larger cylinders are USUALLY "lease only" but that's policy not law. I've received branded neck ring cylinders in exchange for plain "customer owned" cylinders as exchange. If your local welding supplier is a real independent (cherish them) they can fill a wider variety of cylinders.

I have an arrangement where my large private cylinder fills are on my machinistbros business account and I pay in cash so his book keeping isn't affected. "Owner" cylinder sizes happen to be the convenient ones so I buy those too. Make friends with your welding supply even if you buy a lot of parts and small consumables online. The local policy is whatever they feel like.

>> No.1426363

What's wrong with using car batterys

>> No.1426782

wouldn't this be relevant to the entire board

>> No.1427923
File: 28 KB, 256x256, frame_0_1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Miller Maxstar
Mah Man!

>> No.1427945

get the powerarc sth. high freq start is worth it. i have it and its boombastic

>> No.1427948

Magnetism can cause blow, but so can ground placement.

>> No.1427960

>I don't know a shop owner who buys cheap machines

Must be nice to be you. The chintzy nigger that runs where I work can't even keep grinding discs in stock, and our mig machines are burnt out 60 year old Hobarts. Can't wait to leave this place.

>> No.1428615

i want to learn to weld, planning on attending trade school, but i don't want to go there not knowing anything beforehand. can you guys point me in the right direction,like good youtube channels/links that i can learn? most that i see, half the time they try to promote machines i'm not going to buy.

>> No.1428619

welding tips & tricks

>> No.1428641

>good youtube channels

>> No.1428739

their new stick machines are just rebranded chink junk

>> No.1429126

I don't personally own my own welding equipment, but I am a welder by trade. I do it everyday.

I really believe it's a case of get what you pay for. We normally use Lincoln Welders in our shop, with one Miller wire feeder, and 2 Miller Airpacks.

We have one portable Hobart propane welder (which runs pretty good on a 40% duty cycle I believe) My only advice is if you are new and getting into welding I would recommend starting with stick or mig welding.

Tig Welding has a large initial start up cost compared to the other two welding processes.

>> No.1429140

Seems like a good thread to ask this in.
I'm looking at picking up one of the welders available from Delta's skymiles program as I have more miles than I know what to do with.

It's between the Everlast 185DV for 164k miles (183 miles/dollar), or the Forney 190 MP for 186k miles (178 miles/dollar).

Leaning towards the Everlast, as in my experience, these all-in-one type things are a "jack of all trades, master of none".

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