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/diy/ - Do It Yourself


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File: 39 KB, 640x360, northkorea02262015getty.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1248107 No.1248107 [Reply] [Original]

(This question should be on /sci/, but that board is a joke and you guys have a lot of expertise on industrial/fabrication-related topics.)

Why does North Korea, or any state for that matter, necessarily need to carry out physical detonations to test their nuclear weapons anymore? Computers have been powerful enough for a while now to simulate bomb yields using finite element analysis; in fact China has been doing just that in recent years,

Wouldn't it be a lot easier and a lot less reckless for the North Korean regime to simply construct a supercomputer on which to develop its weapons, versus alarming the world by constructing and detonating physical devices?

>> No.1248108

>>1248107
the very purpose of bombs usually is to alarm oher nations anon. Best Kim going on state TV and announcing 'Today we had good simulation!' - hed get laughed at. Nope, bombs is for be loud, make big bang, lots of smoke, ROTW (and esp Japs) nervous, end of.

>> No.1248109

>>1248107
Because nuclear bombs are fun.

>> No.1248116
File: 144 KB, 433x323, spock beard.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1248116

>>1248109
this

>> No.1248117

Have you seen their shit? All their war machines are antiquated second-hand Russian leftovers with very few good ones. They're probably still using Windows 3.1 for fuck sake.

>> No.1248126

>>1248117
Judging from their leader they're definetly the type of people who use linux.

>> No.1248127

>>1248107
>Why does North Korea, or any state for that matter, necessarily need to carry out physical detonations to test their nuclear weapons anymore?

They don't - it's dick waving.

>> No.1248129

Dick waving and design tweaking.

>> No.1248141
File: 361 KB, 1021x769, Redstar3.0.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1248141

>>1248117
>>1248126
>not running redstarOS 4.0

>> No.1248144

>>1248107
Because the easiest way to see if the one you built works is to set it off and see if it works. Computer simulations can only get you so far. Even with supercomputers the US still performs some nuclear tests because there's a limit to what you can do with a simulation. US tests are all subcritical or to comply with treaties so you don't hear about them very often.

>> No.1248164

They dont care about the explosion, they care if the hardware works.
They have shitty rockets, shitty nukes and half the time the things dont even function. Its also more imposing for them to launch nukes all over the place to piss of Japan and SK

>> No.1248188

>>1248117
You do realize that the USA is to technological advance, that a organized nation with cold war era will kill them right?

>> No.1248208

>>1248127
>>1248107
if North Korea killed their nuclear weapons program they'd end up like Syria and Iraq.
every person there supports the Nukes.

>> No.1248224

If it is for propaganda why doesn't he film them. If he is doing them below ground why don't we praise him for being responsible?

>> No.1248242

>>1248107
Sabre rattling.

Fission/fusion simulations on a computer don't exactly register with their perceived enemies.

>> No.1248254

>>1248242
>perceived
Are you stupid?

>> No.1248527

>>1248107
This thread belongs to /sci/.

>> No.1248535

>>1248254
Are you?

>> No.1248542
File: 144 KB, 964x619, article-2380055-1B050B2D000005DC-68_964x619 (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1248542

On the same topic - isn't a tractor with no front axle a horrible horrible idea?

>> No.1248574
File: 139 KB, 1000x667, 1946 ford 8n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1248574

>>1248542
just how sheltered are you

>> No.1248711

>>1248542
so thats why its illegal to eat cows over there, they need the cows cus the use the tractors to pull "missiles"

>> No.1248715

>>1248574

I own two of those, but neither run currently. Fucking things are work horses when they do run though.

>> No.1248724

>>1248574
That PTO makes me nervous just looking at it.

>> No.1248743

>>1248107
Yeah in fact that's how and why finite element analysis was developed, to help develop the H-bomb.

Really blows my mind we were able to do this with some of the first electronic computers.

Ok, no back to business. Even with the best supercomputers in the world we can't simulate everything. In fact we are very limited in what we can simulate. In addition there are important engineering things that need to be tested.

for instance, a big part of making a bomb is setting off a bunch of explosives at as close to the same time as possible. You do that and stuff goes boom! You don't and the core gets ejected to one side and it fizzles.

Nukes, or at least the american ones are complex systems with lots of weird electronics(fucking vacuum tubes for the blow up all at once part) and even fucking weird moving parts.

You might be able to simulate these all in a computer, but you can still run into dumb issues. Oh the bomb didn't boom because Ted didn't tell nancy about moving one of the detonators 1 cm to the left so one of the wires was slightly longer and the delay fucked shit up.

You know why the F-35 is costing a fuck ton? Cause of people like ted and nancy. When they get around to testing the plane they find some big issue and have to completely rebuild things.

QA is another issue. Sure you can build each individual part of the bomb, but can you make them reliably? Sometimes it's easier to test the whole damn bomb rather than every little bit.

>> No.1248763

>>1248107
Better question, why does North Korea detonate all their bombs below ground? They didn't sign the atmospheric test ban treaty to my knowledge and it would be cool to possibly capture a test in HD somehow.

I'd like to see a few regular airbursts and one or two high altitude tests.

>> No.1248984

>>1248763
>why does North Korea detonate all their bombs below ground?

Because it's hard for them to find a suitable location where they don't risk the plume drifting over into China. The one thing they really, really, do not want to do is piss of China. That's why the latest sabre rattling is about an explosion in the Pacific ocean: it's a logistical nightmare for them, so the stakes have to be high to make it worth the trouble.

>> No.1249026

NK speaking to UN now

http://webtv.un.org/live-now

>> No.1249031

it's to show all the other nations that they actually have working nuclear weapons. did you think they could just post a screencap of nuclear bomb tycoon and get everyone's panties in a bunch?

>> No.1249036

>>1249031
>it's to show all the other nations that they actually have working nuclear weapons
that was covered here>>1248127
> dick waving.
and here >>1248129
>Dick waving

>> No.1249061

>>1249036
It was covered in the very first reply. Yet the thread stays on the first page, even though it isn't even relevant to this board.
Welcome to 4chan, I guess.

>> No.1249073

>>1248724
It's basically a paid time off trap

>> No.1249091

>>1248224
The country is far too small for an above ground test without direct fallout over the population.

>> No.1249155

just because you have the blueprints doesn't mean you have the equipment, skill, labour, money, to actually build it.
if i borrowed shuttle plans from nasa there is no fucking danger of me getting to the moon.
i know this might come as a surprise, but north korea isn't the resplendent utopia everyone thinks it is, its a poorly educated and poorly financed shithole.

>> No.1249380

>>1248107
Actual weapons are a show of force/progression. They've prob done 100s of simulations, but actually doing one is how you know if it works.

>> No.1249808

>>1248542
The front end of most tractors is just for steering, in some cases not even that, everything is done in the rear.

>> No.1249816

>>1248188
Could you repeat that in English?

>> No.1249840

>>1248107
They have to prove that they can obtain the rare materials and processing equipment in order to sound like anything other than a crazy person making an idle threat. Bellicose bickering only worsens the issue as a result. Both North and South Korea should fear and oppose international military action in the Korean peninsula, because it will deprive them of the living standards they have obtained.

>> No.1249859

Lol

>> No.1249868

>>1248188
I hope you spent these last four days in silence thinking about what you've typed Retard.

>> No.1249889

>>1249840
fuck off namefag

>> No.1249944

>>1248254
Dumbass. "I" before "E," except following "C" or when sounded as "A" as in "neighbor" or "weigh."
>Weird, huh?

>> No.1249983

>>1248763

We have lots of tests recorded on film which is effectively much higher resolution than 1080p. We even have some filmed at a million frames per second. Your chronos can suck it.

>> No.1249986
File: 78 KB, 622x626, 32424a4a0ba874d88af893891b3903ae53f2befc824b1785ad2720c635537f7a.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1249986

>>1249155
You are clearly not a rocket surgeon. The shuttle lacked the delta v to get to the moon. And were it to get there and deorbit it would still lack the necessary propulsive landing abilities.

>> No.1249989

>>1248107
The real reason NK does this shit is to brag to there own population. See we big country, world is afraid of us, we powerful, dear leader so smart.

All other nations are huge dicks that don't want us to succeed; America, Russia China, Israel all have thousands of nukes. Look at what happens to nations that give up there nuclear programs; Iraq, Libya... they all get destroyed. Clearly the west cant be trusted they lie and break promises all the time. We had a deal with the Clinton regime to dismantle our nuclear refinery but as soon as Bush came along he backed out of it completely and screwed us over. If we give up our nukes we will be destroyed.

>> No.1250005

>>1249983
Sauce pleas

>> No.1250009

>>1250005
Film doesn't have pixels. Think about it.

>> No.1250030
File: 90 KB, 922x852, rapatronic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1250030

>>1250009
nice """effectively much higher than 1080p"""
maybe we should start talking in terms of bandwidth

>> No.1250057

>>1250009
So what? Tell me the sauce. If I have to go to some library to borrow a roll of film, so be it

>> No.1250105

>>1250009
>Film doesn't have pixels
No, it has grain. Some a lot more than other.

>> No.1250112

>>1248188
Jesus christ you messed up

>> No.1250115

>>1250009
if there are no filters, film captures some of the IR and UV spectrum too. which can be revealed in development.

>> No.1250307

>>1250005
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=190&v=pWpqGKUG5yY

>> No.1251834
File: 71 KB, 800x450, KimJongUnMac.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1251834

>>1248117
>probably still using Windows 3.1

>> No.1252155

>>1248208
Actually no. China screwed up the progression of South Korea last time and would definitely do it again. They're the only reason North Korea exists.

>> No.1253564

>>1248107
Half of the missiles that they launch explode on the pad, immediately after launch, or strike nowhere near it's intended target. So basically they have a lot of work still to do on their missile systems. They don't want a nuclear device to detonate on the launch pad... Even though the rest of the world hopes that kinda happens.

>> No.1253763

>>1248743
FEM is much older than that. I'm no expert but i doubt that's the right method for the PDEs of atomic explosions (and explosions in general).

But yeah it's actually much more difficult and demanding of knowledge to simulate such a device than to just explode some chunks of material together (what they are probably doing because their bombs are EXTREMELY weak which makes it seem that they aren't very efficient/developed.

>> No.1254141

>>1248743
>Really blows my mind we were able to do this with some of the first electronic computers.
This is discussed in the book "Surely you must be joking Mr Feynman" which is an entertaining read. It is one of the few books I have been listening as an audiobook which was funny enough. "Cassette six, side two".
Highly recommended. Richard Feynman was a funny guy, or at least a good storyteller!

>> No.1254500

>>1253763
The theory for finite element analysis had been around since the 1940s, but couldn't really be implemented until decent computers came along in the 1960s. Nastran, the real grandfather of all of it, came out in the early 1970s.

However, nuclear weapon blasts are modeled using software called hydrocodes, which simulate hydrodynamics - material behavior similar to a fluid due to huge pressures and very large deformations.