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/diy/ - Do It Yourself

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1191516 No.1191516 [Reply] [Original]

Can anybody on /diy/ tell me why my contractor would have spent hours soldering to move the supply pipes for the installation of a utility sink in our garage when he could have (imo) just fitted flexible hoses. Seems unnecessary. I'm originally from NZ though. Is this a code requirement in CA?

>> No.1191518
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1191518

>>1191516
These are the hoses that came with the sink. Couldn't he just have fitted longer ones if they wouldn't reach?

>> No.1191523

>>1191516
It uses utility water, very dangerous.
Also it's California, they have to regulate everything.

>> No.1191525

That should have taken only an hour.

>> No.1191526

>>1191523
Why would California code say that you can't stub out and attach shut off valves? I don't see how a 2 foot flexible hose is any different than a 4 foot.

>> No.1191529

>>1191525
Yeah, not sure why it wasn't finished, I have no experience with copper pipes, not normally used where I come from. I wasn't expecting to see that, and still not have the sink installed when I got home.

>> No.1191532

>>1191529
He/she was probably racking up hours. That should have taken at most an hour. I'm sure he sent some emails and texts in the mean time.

>> No.1191533

>>1191526
>>1191532
So, I'm definitely going to ask if there was a problem which caused it to take too long, but should I also ask why longer hoses weren't simply installed instead? I don't want to ask a stupid question. Thanks!

>> No.1191538

>>1191533
Hoses are limited to like 30".

If you got a dishwasher supply line, that would be 60" but you'd need an adapter.

Then again seeing how close that is to the drain, I'd expect that 30" would have been enough so I really don't know what he was thinking.

>> No.1191540

>>1191538
Thanks for the info. I feel like I can ask in an informed manner now. Cheers!

>> No.1191543

>>1191533
I just looked up California code and no where does it state the length can not exceed a certain number of inches. It is very specific about size of supply line entering the house and psi to determine supply line thickness. It says nothing about length not to exceed for flexible braided line per psi or main line size.

>> No.1191558

>>1191516
As a fellow Kiwi, I have never seen soldered plumbing. It's always threaded with teflon tape.

>> No.1191559

Your contractor is ripping you off, idiot.

>> No.1191561

>>1191559
You are the idiot to write this. There are some more things to remember when to perform a water supply. Flexible hoses are plastics and sensitive for bacteria. Also these hoses are aging and become brittle by the time. Copper is anti-bacterial material and long lasting. So, please wait with your stupid comments until You know.

>> No.1191678

>>1191558
Chur bro! I know, I can't remember seeing it back home either. It's very old school in the trades over here sometimes. A lot of cowboys too! Have to be really careful sorting the "chaff from the grain".

>> No.1191680

>>1191543
Thanks for the info Anon!

>> No.1191686

>>1191558
One interesting fact is, unless you're a union contractor, you don't need to do an apprenticeship to call yourself a general contractor. You just need to pay to do some written tests in three disciplines (plumbing, electrical and carpentry for example). Then, after passing those you just need insurance and you're a contractor. Totally bullshit system.

>> No.1191691

>sloppy soldering job
>cheap fuck adapters
>banding plastic to plastic
>san cross

>home depot

it all makes sense now......

>> No.1191760

>>1191691
? What makes sense?

>> No.1191776

>>1191558
in germany coper is only used for water central heating
tab water is iron pipe or newer crimped plastic

>> No.1191779

PEX is approved in Cali now. You should have just run your own PEX pipes OP. Then it would have taken 30 minutes and you'd have done it yourself.

>that shit runny pipe sweating job

kek

>> No.1191783

>>1191558

Copper is god tier and still used everywhere in the US. 100 years per installation basically guaranteed.

>> No.1191784

Pex is sweet and they also make copper fittings which use gaiter seals. I collect torches and love to sweat pipe but why bother with fire indoors when you can use fittings which work well and can be turned and manipulated while connecting? Gaiter seals can last thirty years in an automobile engine compartment so home use isn't shit.

>> No.1191806

I taught myself some plumbing for small diy jobs
My soldering believe it or not is way worse than that and it would have taken me maybe 15-20 minutes max to do that.

flexible hoses are literally aids, as are plastic pushfit.

your plumber might produce work that looks like a dogs arsehole but he has you interests at heart.

plastic fittings are great if you like reduced water flow and want to rip it all out in a few years.

as messy as the job is i think it looks much nicer than bendy plastic everywhere but thats my personal opinion.

>> No.1191839

>>1191783
Till some crackhead rips it out and sells it..

>> No.1191843

>>1191516
>when he could have (imo) just fitted flexible hoses

Because professionals generally aren't trained to cut corners. Most plumbers see flexible connections as a lazy answer to a job that could have been done in hard pipe anyway.

>> No.1191893

firstt time sweating pipe?

>> No.1191902

>>1191518
the hoses will be hard and crack in 10 years, plus the valve on it might leak.

Not really a problem though since you can buy new hoses that are flexible and don't leak, then replace them...

It's better than fucking with old hoses, that's for sure.

>> No.1191969

stops are expected to be under the sink the flex lines attach to.

>> No.1191998

>>1191806
>>1191843
>>1191902
My point was and is, he's going to have to run hoses from the taps/shut-off valves anyway, could just have run longer ones. I'm kinda at peace with it now. When I think about it, it probably would have taken him an hour to go buy hoses when he probably had the copper pipe and stuff in his truck.

>> No.1192014

>>1191998
Know you know. Come up with your questions before they start the work and get them to write down what they are going to do along with an estimate.

>> No.1192023

>>1192014
That's good advice. This work was part of a larger volume. He put in our kitchen for us after our old contractor botched up everything he touched. This guy is finishing a lot of stuff the old contractor either screwed up, or just plain didn't do. He's a much better contractor, and a better guy to work with.

>> No.1192037

>>1191516
It was stubbed out because some dumb ass home buyer had no idea what size sink they needed in the garage. Big fucking deal faggot

>> No.1192059

>>1192037
Actually had the sink already a-hole. He didn't take it out of the box because we couldn't install it till after final inspection. Code wouldn't let us have one because electrical panel was 3 inches too close. We decided not having one wasn't an option.

>> No.1193741

>>1191516
He could've had a problem getting water out of the lines to solder. He doesn't have a whole plumbing warehouse in his van so he probably didn't have longer hoses

>> No.1193755

>>1191516
If he spent hours soldering this then he is a terrible contractor.

>> No.1193759

He charges by the hour, to him you are a normie who doesn't know what a drill is.

>> No.1194029

Un solder the fucking thing and fix it pussy

>> No.1194229
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1194229

>>1191516
Why did he even solder in the first place. Press plumbing does exist and it's faster and easier, standard where I live. Is it not a thing in the USA?

>> No.1194233

>>1194229
fuck off gimpoid go press plumb a cock up your arse.

>> No.1194236

>>1191998
he doesn't have to use hoses at all, you can run solid pipe right into the tap. some taps even come with copper stub tails to fix onto.

>> No.1194237

>>1194233
What's wrong with press plumbing?

>> No.1194248

>>1194233
savagely rekt and anally destroyed. >>1194229
might as well kill himself.

>> No.1194257

>>1194237
in the beginning pipes were soldered.
some people were so retarded that they found soldering pipes, which was actually really simple, too complicated.
ok so to help out the braindead idiots they came up with soldered fittings where the solder was already inside the joints. you just need to heat it up, no worries about precision application (lol!) of flux or solder.
fucking foolproof right?
nope, still too difficult.
so what next. compression fittings! now you don't have to remember which end of the blowtorch is the hot end, you just need to know how to use a spanner. a spanner? you know, that thing you use to bang nails in and open paint tins? yeah thats called a spanner.
oh still too complicated? ok well how can we make it easier..
oh you don't know how to use a measuring tape or what angles are?
lets see how about if we made the pipes plastic and all you have to do is push them together? then you can just guess how long to make it and then fiddle it to fit.
what you keep forgetting to put the little plastic inserts in and it leaks everywhere? ffff ok time to make it more simple i guess..

and thats where mechanical compression fittings come in in the pecking order. people who are so retarded they can't tell one end of a blow torch from the other but have more money than sense to buy a dedicated machine to crimp plumbing fittings.

trades used to require skill, knowledge, a brain. i guess not any more?

>> No.1194260
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1194260

If you can't plumb by sweating copper lines you have no business criticizing the work of a plumber.
There is nothing wrong with the pipes.
He's routing them to end under the sink so flex lines will go up to the faucet - not diagonally across the wall.
I would have put escutcheons on to cover the holes but split ones can still be added.

>> No.1194372

>>1191516
>>>1191558
>One interesting fact is, unless you're a union contractor, you don't need to do an apprenticeship to call yourself a general contractor. You just need to pay to do some written tests in three disciplines (plumbing, electrical and carpentry for example). Then, after passing those you just need insurance and you're a contractor. Totally bullshit system.

Maybe in Alabama or wherever. Most states require you to prove some length of experience in the trades. And I'm not sure what a union contractor would mean since unions are made up of workers while the contractors are the business owners.
This board tends to over romanticize unions. The laziest and mist shiftless tradesmen I have ever worked with were union. The free market tends to weed such people out where there is actual competition.

>> No.1194376

>>1191516
>spent hours
Hours? Maybe one at the top. Probably less if he was good.

He didn't have the long hoses on his truck and the time to pick them up costs more than the copper he had on hand.

>> No.1194408
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1194408

no pro did that plumbing. The solder running from the fittings wreaks of an idiot. You can see the fuckwit had to mud over the burnt drywall trying to sweat the joint. Some of the shittiest work I've ever seen

>> No.1194419

>>1194408
I sweat a cap onto a pipe once, no prior experience at all and it looked kind of like that.
It held up ok until we could get a plumber to come do it.

I wouldnt be too happy if I paid someone and it looked that bad.

>> No.1194427

>>1191558
Fucking Aucklandfags with their fancy new orange metal, why can't you use stone pipes like the rest of us?

>> No.1194619

>>1194419
Good point...a true plumber takes great pride in his ability to sweat pipe. Just like a welder...shitty welders are not called welders they're called grinders

>> No.1194641

I find it funny, here in germany I have never seen a soldered water pipe, there are rules here, that everything needs to be press fitted or screwed into each other, which means, you just need the bend parts and straight pipe, that you cut to the right length. that way it holds for at elast 50 years.

>> No.1194658

>>1191516
Because youre a dickless little faggot and any man with half a testicle and one pubic hair could do it himself insead of calling some one else and asking stupid questions when the job is already done

>> No.1194659

>>1194641
In the US soldered pipes is a thing of the past as well. Its all plastic (PEX) these days. Its cheaper more reliable and takes no skill.

>> No.1194662 [DELETED] 

>>1191516
>took hours?
In other words it took YOU hours what would take me 15 minutes to do. That being said I would of installed the shut offs at the wall and ran stainless supply lines to faucets. This is what happens when you try to do work for a know it all homeowner thats an Idiot I charge double to fix someone elses fuck up because they will never own it and will blame someone else

>> No.1194665

>took hours?
In other words it took YOU hours what would take me 15 minutes to do. That being said I would of installed the shut offs at the wall and ran stainless supply lines to faucets. This is what happens when you try to do work for a know it all homeowner thats an Idiot I charge double to fix someone elses fuck up because they will never own it and will blame me for the mess

>> No.1194672

>>1194659

Wtf this isn't true. I had copper run for my new construction. I just had a competent plumber do it who charged the same price for pex and copper with no fucks given. Only reason anyone runs pex if they're pleb tier. The labor is the real cost not the fucking cost of the pipe.

>> No.1194676

>>1194672
youre full of shit mungtard...copper is expensive as hell. You must be OPtard

>> No.1194705

>>1194676
Push fit is barely cheaper per length of pipe. Fittings and the inserts make it practically competitive.

>>1194659
> more reliable
This is absolutely fucking incorrect.
> can be installed by retarded
This is not a benefit. Why would you want someone doing your plumbing who can't work out the hot end from the blowtorch

>> No.1194726

>>1194705
you sound like a used car salesman...a know it all dumbass.

>> No.1194750

>>1194726
i know a little about plumbing because i redid my bathroom a few years ago. i did lots of research on the different methods.
i don't know anything or pretend to know anything about selling used cars but i know enough about my own car to keep it serviced.

i guess i must be a dumbass because i don't understand what the benefit of your comment was.

>> No.1194785

>>1194676
A night with your sister is expensive as hell compared to a night with your mom, but they're both cheaper than the trip to the doctor afterwards.

>> No.1195138

>>1191516

1. depending on the jurisdiction, he may not be allowed to use flex connectors. Here in NYC, for example, you can't use them anywhere exposed - like, they're fine under a cabinet sink, but not under a wall hung sink, or pedestal sink. Might be a similar rule where you live.

2. You mention the sink would have been too close to the panel - would the stubout have been too close, if he'd left it in its original position?

3. Because it'd be hacky... but then again... those joints look pretty fucking hacky, and "spent hours" on 6 elbows?!? That's 15 minutes of work.

Granted, there's setup, possibly a supply run, cleanup... worst case scenario, two hours.

>> No.1195274

>>1191516
You have to consider that plumbing is different all over the world, Ive done plumbing in about a third of the US, England, Scotland, Italy, Estonia, Ukraine, Honduras, and Puerto Rico over about 11 years.

In the US now you typically see sweat copper, PEX, and pro-press style crimped copper for water supply. Funny thing about PEX is that its the only true warranty out of any current system. I use all three and they all have their ups and downs. Propress is fantastic for in hospitals where you are required to have burn permits and smoke extraction since you need neither. Sweat copper has the longest proven lifetime even without warranty, PEX has a long warranty for failure and is waaay better than older stuff like Quest pipe which rats love to eat.

The UK LOVES compression fittings even up to 25mm pipe and larger, however their copper tubing is much softer and they use benders instead of fittings for most of their work so compression fittings work much better on their softer tubing and almost all of their tubing is on the outside of walls since brick construction and combi boilers and radiant heat.

Italy is down the middle between US and UK, you see a lot of fittings and bending and compressions, its kinda anything goes, very little regulation from my experience.

All the eastern euro countries ive been in were 99% glued PVC for everything because its what they can afford, you almost couldnt find straight copper tubing, but they did have some 10mm soft copper with compression though it was rare to see. And none of the local plumbers i met knew how to sweat copper at all.

The there is shit hole Puerto Rico and Honduras, it was anything fucking goes, it doesnt matter you would see pipes run in hospitals that would be feet of black iron connected to copper then to pvc then some galvanized,. All my work done here was of mission type to we stocked containers with supplies and shipped on boat because we knew they had no real supplies

>> No.1195284

>>1191516
Oh and based on that image your effective trap depth is twice that trap height. Prolly gonna have trouble with that dude clogging and slow to drain and the trap is a larger size than pipe in the wall which is just plain wrong.

there are no supports on those supply pipes and they look to be over a foot exposed, makes it easy to brake them.
No visible hammer stops and im betting there arnt any in the wall either.
The solder joints dont look that bad atleast the tubing was cleaned before fit and solder grapes are not that big of a deal, plumber just uses to much solder.
1/4 turn one stop fittings are my personal preference so no issue there to me but i like sweat on instead of compression.
Didnt clean off flux after sweating so they will turn green

>> No.1195291

>>1191516
where is the sink, a foot away from the ceiling?

>> No.1196403
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1196403

>>1191516
Can't speak to your specific contractor -

but some contractors are not really that smart.

>> No.1196545

>>1194408
First period apprentice tier