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/diy/ - Do It Yourself

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1183286 No.1183286 [Reply] [Original]

Has anyone done asbestos abatement themselves? Specifically, I am looking at buying a property that looks to have asbestos insulation on the HVAC system. It appears that there is about a 4-6 inch gap at both ends, meaning I could probably easily just remove the entire section and just replace it. I am trying to find out how much it costs to dispose of the asbestos in this state properly, but all I am finding are costs when you hire someone. What I would do is put multiple coats of oil paint or poly on the pipes and just remove it and take it to a certified landfill.

>tldr how much does a certified asbestos landfill charge for disposal of asbestos?

>> No.1183287

In cali, you need a license to remove asbestos. Knowing how cali does other stuff, I would think the disposal sites would have checkpoints of sorts to verify the license.

Also, unless it's fraying, asbestos is probably a better insulator than other options. I'd just leave it, but in my area the existence of asbestos doesn't lower the value of a house.

>> No.1183342

>>1183286
Best bet is to leave it since it's such a bitch to do properly.
If you need to remove it (I did from my whole octopus furnace) put a respirator on and goggles. Then cut sections nicely and take them off the best you can without breaking a whole lot. Put them in paper bags and fold them up (plastic blasts out air when you tie them up and push the air out). Then I slowly fed them to the garbage man in amongst my other garbage.
Remember, the guys who got sick were working in ship building yards where you spray the shit on inside an unventilated hull with no mask for 8h/day for 30 years. Or the plumbers who put it on mixed the shit like concrete where you pour a bag of flour asbestos and mix it in water with no ventilation in the basement.
Seriously you will be okay health wise, just don't literally snort the shit.
As for disposal, it's a natural mineral, in the dump it's going to do no harm buried in everything else.
We've demonized a once useful product to the point where we think it is literal cancer. Just be gentle and you'll be good.
P.S. I still have asbestos mittens I use for cooking, never can burn even over an open flame :P

>> No.1183467

>>1183286
I did it as part of a removal team.
The shit is dangerous anon, but it can be done.
The key is keeping it damp, not soggy, but damp. Basic soapy water in a bug sprayer. That keeps the shit from floating everywhere. That and not letting it fall to the floor. It's the floating stuff that gets in your lungs and contaminates the rest of your house. The whole area we worked was sealed in plastic (two layers) and negative pressured (sucked air out through a HEPA filter). Every remover monkey had a full NIOSH mask and tyvec suit taped up like a fucking ductapemummy. No food, no drinks, no taking a piss till break time. Filled my boots once and I wasn't the only one.

We just double bagged the shit and sent it to the local landfill. Where they probably broke the bags by compacting them with a big fucking dozer.
But seriously, google ye "how to remove asbestos"

We got paid fairly good, but the company make a killing.

>> No.1183470

ive seen the absurd high dollar outfits leave piles of dusty asbestos all over everything and get called back for the next job.

so yeah you can do it better than 2 convicts who dont give a fuck about their job or your property.

Do plenty of research, keep track of how many hours it took you to feel like you had a good grasp, then do some dusty wood project or something using your methods, then use the lessons of what is full of saw dust to try to reduce the asbestos waste.

>> No.1183486

What about spraying it with an adhesive or with an acrylic coat?

What about flooding the whole room?

>> No.1183533

>>1183286
If it's the kind like in the pic, that is the most evil shit around. You look at it too hard and it crumbles into the air.
Some people that end up with meso-wtf ever or asbestosis can actually figure out that it was this one time X years ago they messed with it one time at a house.
Definitely wouldn't want ducts with that shit, if there is rust/corrosion that has eaten any holes into the metal, it's exposed that shit to the airflow that stays dry all year pulling more dust out.
If you are really interested in the property, I'd use that as a reason to knock the price down, that you will have to work on it.

If you get the property and determined to diy, spray mix of woodglue and water over all that shit, not dripping but close to it. do another layer, gently lay newspaper sheets onto it and wrap around. I'd also gently wrap it in cheap plastic drop cloth with masking tape, putting no stress or pressure on the asbestos. Basically glue to hold the crumbly shit together, then the layer of newspaper to somewhat protect it, and then plastic to finish sealing it.
Get it out of the house without banging or bumping. Take off siding and cut a hole in the end of the attic for a quick path.
Get all the shit out, open the doors, then use giant ventilation fans in windows to suck dust out of house, go around with leaf blower etc, move fans to next room as you go.

>> No.1183571

>>1183342
oven mitts photo request

>> No.1183580

>>1183467
I did it for about a week with a crew. Very similar to your experience, full suit, positive air masks for the heavy stuff, etc. We had to do random particle tests each day where they put a special vacuum filter on somebody for a couple of hours while they worked. One day, I was the lucky guy who got to wear it. When we went in to do a job, my supervisor pulled the vacuum tube on the filter to keep it from pulling particles in. I went to lunch that day and didn't come back. I knew shit was more dangerous than they were telling us when they didn't even want the tests to register the amount of particulate that was really floating around in there. It's been about 30 years and luckily I haven't seen any signs of mesothelioma, but I'm sure if I would have stuck with it I might be dead by now.

>> No.1183588

>>1183486
If you spray it with adhesive or paint, you're only covering the outside...you've still got to break it off of whatever it's covering and then shit's going to go airborne. There's a reason pro's spray it with water...it soaks the whole thing and then you can easily break it and bag it. Flooding the room is just going to leave bad shit floating around waiting to attach to something.

>> No.1183592

>>1183286
I'm one of the guys below who mentioned doing this professionally for a very short period. We were removing it mostly from pipes similar to what you show. First, we would *gently* spray it with water to soak it without sending it in the air. Then, we would wrap thick clear trash bags around a wet section, close off the bag so the pipe is not exposed at all, and tear the asbestos off of the pipe so it fell straight into the trash bag. You'll probably want to repeat on the exposed pipe with a wet rag inside a trash bag to wipe off an residue. All the while, wear the best respirator you can get ahold of, full body covering if you can find it, and tape up where your arms meet the gloves and shoe coverings. When you're done, you should probably have somebody wet you down like you did with the pipe, carefully peel off the suit, and bag everything...then go take a long shower.

>> No.1183619
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1183619

OP, we had to remove 300 pounds of asbestos pipe insulation a few years ago. My freind and I did it by ourselves. We put on full hazmat suits, gloves and a respirator. We sprayed down the asbestos AS we were pulling it off of the pipes. Asbestos is friable, (easily airborn), and doing this helps quite a bit. We worked methodically and slowly. We put all the insulation in double heavy duty contractor bags and when we were done, we drove them to an appropiate site that accepted hazardous materials.... In other words, you CAN do it. It's not recommended, But it can be done. Just remember to keep spraying water on the insulation first and while you're removing it. You will need a helper, too.

>> No.1183980

>>1183342
This is basically how I've done this in the past

>> No.1184020

>>1183286
>Has anyone done asbestos abatement themselves?

This is one job you don't /diy/
It's illegal and not worth the health risks. Great care must be taken.

>> No.1184343
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1184343

>>1183467
>no taking a piss till break time. Filled my boots once and I wasn't the only one

>> No.1184382

>>1183286
Wear your ppe.
Mix 1 quart of Elmers glue into 1 gallon of water and saturate the shit with it and remove when wet.
Disposal is a whole different monster.

>> No.1184392

>>1184382
For USAF aircraft crash recovery we used floor wax as a fixative for burnt/damaged carbon fiber (similar to asbestos hazards). Cheap and works well. We "crash wrapped" (plastic wrapped) the big chunks.

>> No.1184400

Just throw it in your trash, bit by bit. Lol

>> No.1184409

>>1183342
>We've demonized a once useful product to the point where we think it is literal cancer.
It's awful. A few days ago someone posted about removing asbestos online and people were on him like he was working with anthrax

>> No.1184525

>>1183286
>>1183342
>>1183467
>>1183580
>>1183592

Yeah, it's nasty nasty stuff, but one thing that no one mentions is how 98% of the people who developed lung cancer also smoked. You'll still get asbestosis and mesothelioma.
>>1183533
This seems like the best advice. I would also drop $10 on an n95 dust mask at the very least, probably a respirator, and tape a plastic drop cloth on the doors to the rest of the house.
FYI found good directions on safety precautions to take when "taking a sample" of it:
Make sure no one else is in the room when sampling is done.
Wear disposable gloves or wash hands after sampling.
Shut down any heating or cooling systems to minimize the spread of any released fibers.
Do not disturb the material any more than is needed to take a small sample.
Place a plastic sheet on the floor below the area to be sampled.
Wet the material using a fine mist of water containing a few drops of detergent before taking the sample. The water/detergent mist will reduce the release of asbestos fibers.
Carefully cut a piece from the entire depth of the material using, for example, a small knife, corer, or other sharp object. Place the small piece into a clean container (for example, a 35 mm film canister, small glass or plastic vial, or high quality resealable plastic bag).
Tightly seal the container after the sample is in it.
Carefully dispose of the plastic sheet. Use a damp paper towel to clean up any material on the outside of the container or around the area sampled. Dispose of asbestos materials according to state and local procedures.

>> No.1184528

>>1183286
Also, don't use a brush if you do this, spray it on.

Also also, I would suggest making a "container" for it of drainage pipe. I can't quite tell dimensions from the picture, but it looks like it would fit into a 4".
So get a length bigger than the section you want to cut out, cut out the top half of it with a jigsaw or recip saw, cutting in and then sideways an inch or two from the ends. Cap the ends. make a hinge of duct tape along one side of the cut. Cut out coated pipe, gently lower into "container" tape other half shut, wrap in drop cloths for second airtight layer, tape shut again.
>>1183619
That would be great... except that if you completely fucked it up you would still be 25 years from showing symptoms and wouldn't know about it yet. So your story is just that you felt comfortable doing it, not that it was safe.

However, yeah, a helper would be recommended so you can cut it and not have the other end drop when you do and explode dust everywhere.

>> No.1184567

Go down to home depot early in the morn. Pick out some guys that look like good workers but aren't supposed to be here legaly. Treat them good pay them and feed them even hook them up with some beers when the job is done, and there you go

>> No.1184573

>>1183286
My dad bought a 100+ year old house, place was filled with asbestos, in the walls, in the attic, all the pipes were lagged and the roof had asbestos tiles.

Used a dump trailer he had, hired a bunch of day laborer guys from out in front of Home Depot, took three weeks, different guys everyday, paid 'em cash and some beers.

Dad didn't even give them masks or gloves, guys worked their asses off, covered in dust wen we loaded them in the truck bed for the ride back to HD, great guys, I learned a little Mexican lingo too.

While they worked with the asbestos dad and I were working in the yard.

We took the loaded trailer, one run a day, to some land my uncle owned, he dug a bunch of trenches with a back hoe and we wet down the load, dumped it and covered it up.

After about 5 years my uncle sold the land to some turds from California who were starting some organic farming, land was in my grandmothers name and she is dead now.

My dad sold the house after we re-did it, made a profit and he hasn't ties to it, was owned by an LLC a buddy of his co-owner, paid him a fee and he didn't care, he had a heart attack last month and is in a nursing home.

Hire some Mexicans to clean that shit up, cheap, work hard, ask no questions, they just get the job done.

>> No.1184581

>>1184573
>Hire some Mexicans
i hear people say this all the time, but there are no mexicans in front of my home depot.

where the fuck do i get mexicans at? i have shit i need done.

>> No.1185069

>>1184525
Shit is pretty nasty in terms of occupational exposure, but decent PPE and common fucking sense will see you through a minor clean up of the crap. Don't turn it into dust. Shit is literally a fucking rock. Bag it good and bury it. It's not fucking anthrax and it doesn't hurt a fucking thing of you don't fuck with it and turn it into dust. Shit is in the air anyways in done areas due to the minerals in the dirt.

Radon is a bigger worry in many areas and more likely to give you cancer than asbestos.

>> No.1185110

>>1184581
>where the fuck do i get mexicans at? i have shit i need done.
Just vote democrat.

>> No.1185438

>>1184573
Your dad is a piece of shit.

>> No.1186054

>>1183286
look up different types of asbestos. pretty sure a lot of it is quite safe

>> No.1186079

>>1185438
Seconded.

As long as you spray it down with something and wear proper PPE there is no magic that makes a contractor somehow less prone to hazard.

There is alot of prep work if you want to make sure you don't end up contaminating your house in addition to being slow and methodical. I would absolutely recommend getting a contractor to come in and do an air-quality/duct cleaning/etc just for your own peace of mind.

>> No.1186815

Similar question here, except my (suspected) asbestos is in the form of "Zonalite" pebbles in the attic floor for insulation. I'm torn between just covering them up by flooring the attic so they can't be disturbed much, or removing them completely, which I assume would be done best with a special vacuum perhaps with HEPA filters?

I also read that Zonalite pebbles aren't nearly as bad/don't contain the high levels of asbestos like that pipe insulation crap, not sure if true or not.

>> No.1186829

>>1186815

Friable vs non-friable

The former is about 100x worse. Covering it up is your best bet.

>> No.1186858

>>1185110
democrats want legal mexicans that i'd have to pay a fair wage. i want the cheap mexicans i can have handle asbestos and lead without PPE that i never have to hear from again.

>> No.1186965

>>1183286
1. Buy drone.
2. Chop it up into little bits.
3. Sprinkle over playgrounds.
4. You just helped solve overpopulation, congrats.

>> No.1186966

>>1186965
Asbestos usually doesn't hit hard until later in life.

>> No.1187064

>>1186858
Well not quite true. Dems want legal Mexicans that you'd have to pay minimum wage and could sue for workman' comp because they wouldn't just get deported.
Repubs want no Mexicans so you pay 'free market' $25/hr wages that blue collar workers got in the 90's.
The 1% who back both want a large pop of illegal immigrants that they can force to work overtime for free, pay $4/hr cash under the table, give no benefits, and deport instead of actually paying.

>> No.1187082

>>1183286
Honestly, i'd say i woudn't bother to buy a property that will require such a dangerous job to do to make it safe, one thing is fixing the home or improving it, but this is bullshit level is i won't touch nothing on this place or i'll get cancer level.

>> No.1187310

ITT people don't realise that teachers get mesothelioma from removing pins from school plaster with asbestos binder

It literally takes a few dozen microfibres you fucking retards.

There's a reason it's banned in civilised countries.

>> No.1187344

Is Canada still selling heaps of it to India?

>> No.1187352

>>1187310
Let them huff their Asbestos. There's no telling them. MA(sbestos)GA.

>> No.1187354

>>1187310
That plaster is also in millions of homes. If it were that bad, every house in the US would need to be torn down and rebuilt because it's all in our drywall and people fuck with their drywall all the time. You would just be born in the US and get an asbestos settlement check.

>> No.1187355

>>1187310
If all it took was a few dozen fibers, than the entire country prior to the 80's would have mesothelioma. The shit was in everything. Most if not all breakpads had it.

>> No.1187782

we used to play with asbestos sheets as kids and smash them up. nothing over 30 years later. the only people who got mesothelioma smoked and worked with it daily

>> No.1187981

>>1187782
Yeah it's just the health and safety flavour of the week.

get a disposable boiler suit. wear goggles and a dustmask/respirator spray it down with a mix of water/pva sprayed from a bug sprayer and then remove..

removal: bag it up it trash bags and tape them up. either dump them at the city dump or fuck it bury them.

its not hard

>> No.1188111

>>1187310
It's not as bad as they make out. My old construction teacher worked on a rail yard when he was a teenager and the initiation for the new guys was to be thrown in the asbestos pit (they stored powdered asbestos in giant pits as it was used for train brake pads or some shit). He reckons he was thrown in 4 times in his first week every time coming out covered head to toe in fine white powder. That fucker is about 60 years old and still kicking, got one nasty sounding cough but he still here.

>> No.1188708

>>1187354
>every house in the US
hyperbole

>> No.1189038

>>1188111
...yeah, powdered asbestos dust is fine. it's only certain types that fuck you up, because it's the long fibers that get stuck in your lung and keep slicing everything up, because they're too long to be grabbed by cells and evicted, they pop the walls. And they're too small/pointy to be successfully encysted, so they just keep sliding around causing scar tissue as your lung tries over and over to put it in a cyst.
>>1187354
yeah, only if you can A) find the building company and it hasn't gone bankrupt, and B) prove that you didn't know/were not informed about the hazards of it.
The settlements were basically delayed workman's comp combined with fraud because the workers weren't told how bad it was for you.
>>1187310
>>1187355
yeah, it's not as bad as they say, but it is still quite bad. you did pretty much have to smoke to get mesothelioma, but asbestosis will get you either way. Auto mechanics are at a high risk of it because of brakepads.
Asbestosis is basically the same thing as black lung that coal miners get, and they're at a 5%-10% rate.
some new studies have shown that asbestos is generally only about 5-10X as bad as fiberglass is, and people work with that all the time without worrying too much about PPE, and they mostly get lost lung function.

>> No.1190328

>>1187064
Dems also want to legalize them because *boom* instant tens of millions of loyal voters for generations.

>> No.1190512

>>1187981
>bury them
seems appropriate as that's where asbestos comes from in the first place!

>> No.1190517

>>1186815
I have this in my attic as well (old old house) read up a lot on it over the years. most of what I read said that not all of this type of insualtion has is - it depends where the insulation material was dug up (like asbestos the insulation stuff is also a natural mineral that is in the ground) in some areas the two minerals are together in the ground. but the ratio is something like less then 1% asbestos to the other insulation mineral. they said most of the time the tests can't even detect the asbestos in with the insulation. long story short, as long as you aren't up in the attic playing sand box with your insulation or sprinkling it on your breakfast cereal every morning it's not going to be a problem. also remember that even a new house today will have materials in it that will eb dic=sciver 20 30 40 50 years from now to be "bad for you". you can't 'win'. have read that that slick new granite counter top may have radon off gassing from it. there's bad stuff in the drywall, in the flooring, in the carpet, in the paint (even after lead was banned) also in the glue that holds the [shitty] chip board together (that all new homes are made of b'cuz its cheap). and then there's all the noxious 'flame retardant' chemicals they soak furniture in. you can't 'win'. you will be exposed to a ton of 'bad stuff' no matter where you go or where you live.

>> No.1190532

>>1183286
Nuke it from orbit anon, it's the only way.

>> No.1190533

>>1187310
I just hope we don't pay for their end of life healthcare.

healthcare is literally theft.