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/diy/ - Do It Yourself

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1125969 No.1125969 [Reply] [Original]

Good morning, /diy/! I was at my parents' house last night and my Father told me about how his doctor's office screwed him out of his Percocet pain management meds. He NEVER takes more than the prescribed dose, and he routinely has his blood tested to make sure he is not abusing.

3 days ago he called the doctor to advise that he only has 4 of his pills left, and the receptionist on the other end saw he was on schedule and said she would call when his script is ready. He called them back yesterday and the same receptionist said that the doctor he's been seeing is no longer writing scripts for pain management and that he'd have to see a new doctor on Thursday. He told them he's down to only 2 pills but all they could offer was to tell him to break them in half and make them last for the next 5 days.

That is out of the question. The pain in his wrists, back, and ribs is too much for a half-pill to calm and further 4 half-pills over 5 days just doesn't add up.

tl;dr - what are some OTC medicines or combination of medicines that can help ease his pain until his appointment on Thursday?

>> No.1125971

>>1125969
if you had your wisdom teeth out see if you have any left. ask your friends if they have some vicodin

>> No.1125976

>>1125971
That's a good idea but I've already asked around and no luck yet - still waiting for some people to reply. I know it's probably a unicorn in that it doesn't exist but I would really like to find an OTC solution so that he can get them ASAP and so that he has a game plan for the future.

>> No.1125978

If you truly are that desperate you could always buy more pills in alphabay

>> No.1125984

>>1125969
Get some poppy seeds and make a tea. It's an effective substitute for opioid medications. I suggest you google it to figure out how to do it and what kind of seeds to buy because I've never done it myself, only heard about it.

>> No.1125986

>>1125969
Large doses of acetomenophen+weed. Probably not an option because it's your dad but would work.

>> No.1125997

>>1125984
This sounds pretty legit, gonna look into this now.

>>1125986
>Probably not an option because it's your dad
We were considering this last night, but it's a tad sketchy since he'd have to bring some to work with him.

>> No.1125998

>>1125997
just make some weed cookies

>> No.1126000

>>1125998
>weed cookies
Aha! Much more low-key, great idea!!!

>> No.1126004

>>1125969

I used to have this very arthritic neighbor who said the meds werent as effective anymore, I searched around for him and found this stuff called biofreeze its used mostly in sports medicine. Any ways I would order it online for him it came in a like a roll on tube or a squeeze tube , the roll on tube worked better for him. Any ways you can actually buy this stuff at walmart now its by where they keep the pain meds its a white bottle that says biofreeze in green letters. Its worth a try anon. My neighbor was always elated and grateful when I would bring him those tunes he said it was amazing stuff.

Also : warm baths, turmeric in food and turmeric pills turmeric is a great anti inflamation agent, try to get him to consume less dairy sugar and carbs.

>> No.1126066

>>1125969
MODS
>how to make krokodile

>> No.1126086

>>1126004
Also worth looking into, thanks! Do you know if biofreeze also calms symptoms of pain due to past injuries? His back and rib pain is due to a previous motorcycle accident...

>>1126066
The thread is about /diy/ pain management, not /diy/ narcotics/controlled substances. If the mods need to delete individual posts that's fine but the whole thread shouldn't be deleted, especially since I'm seeking legal OTC remedies.

>> No.1126102

>>1126086
800 mg ibuprofen.

>> No.1126106

>>1126102
>perscription required
Any OTC recommendations? I guess he could just down a (small) handfull of 500mg ibuprofen?

>> No.1126131

>>1125969
kratom?

Oh, wait. Feds are a bunch of fucking jack booted thugs with an insatiable lust for control.

>>1126106
except there are no 500mg IBUs. Just 200mg, OTC in the states, anyway.

IBU is probably his best option, assuming he's not on other meds (esp blood thinners) or has a stomach ulcer

>> No.1126135

>>1125969
besides ibuprofen, there is now available OTC topical combination of lidocaine and menthol. Haven't used it yet myself, but hear good things.

TENS units may be helpful too.

>> No.1126140

>>1126131
>assuming he's not on other meds (esp blood thinners)
He is on blood-thinners. He had a heart-attack about 8 years ago so blood-thinners have been a part of his daily routine for a while now.

>> No.1126142

>>1126140
then forget the ibuprofen, esp at 800mg doses

>> No.1126143

>>1126142
Great. I guess acetaminophen+weed/whiskey is the way to go, then?

Maybe >>1125984 is worth looking into?

>> No.1126144

>>1126143
don't go crazy with that combo or else
>goodbye liver

>> No.1126182

>>1125969
If it's nerves in the back, the "X Stretch" video from p90x has done more to alleviate my pain than pills. Almost went under the knife for a hernia before I did this, and I did my PT religiously.

>> No.1126200

Try high does of cannabis.

>> No.1126206

>>1126131
Kratom's still an option, and a good one, in 45 states. For now.

>> No.1126207

>>1125969
go to the ER it will be expensive though

>> No.1126213

>>1126106
you can just take 4 200mg tabs but really anything over 400 is dminishing returns

>> No.1126217

>>1126086

yeah it works great, biofreeze kinda makes the spot feel nice and cool numbs a bit of the pain away too

>> No.1126218

Alternate ibuprofen, acetaminophen, and aspirin. They all work through different means, take one dose of them every 2 hours so there is always something in his system and that way you won't go over the max doses for each type of med.... also consider Benadryl... won't stop pain but will make him sleepy with melatonin and if he's asleep the pain won't bug him so much...

>> No.1126244

Have your father potentiate the opiods by drinking white grapefruit juice first. Must be 100% white grapefruit juice.

>> No.1126249

>>1126244
Not too much though or you go right past pain management and into extreme drowsiness.

>> No.1126261

>>1125986
No! Do not take large doses of Tylenol, paracetamol, acetaminophen, or whatever they call it where you live. It will trash your liver, possibly in a permanent way. Especially with other meds that are rough on the liver.

Sleep, NSAIDs like aleeve and ibprofin, are your go to. Strong liquor can also help, but it's not a great solution. Weed can do in a pinch, but just a touch, not in recreational doses.

>> No.1126314

>>1125984
>>1126143
Poppy seed tea is an easy way to OD. Google it, lots of people have died playing around with it. The strength per bag of poppies varies wildly, and many are radiation treated so there's no opiates in them at all.

A solution could be to remove the acetaminophen from codine pills? Or go score some black market oxy/percocet/heroin etc . It's the same shit he's been taking anyway.

>> No.1126337

>>1125969

Use pot. It's far better for you than those pills that leave you addicted and kill your liver.

>> No.1126400

>>1126314
>>1126337
Good suggestions, but we're not very interested in attracting the attention of law enforcement. We're purely interested in pain management, not concocting or acquiring illegal substances.

Although the pot-cookies suggestion seems to be the most viable suggestion so far since pot has been decriminalized here, albeit for 'personal amounts' only.

>> No.1126429

>>1125998

I know a lot of people in pain management and all across the country now they're testing people for marijuana, and cutting people off of painkillers if they test positive. Even in states where it's legal/medicinal it's almost unheard of for people to be allowed to use both. It's bullshit, but it is what it is.

>>1126131

You can still get kratom in most states, and is a good option for OP. Problem is getting it in time. I'm sure there are places that offer free shipping on good sized orders - I just don't know of any anymore. Shouldn't take long to find good kratom vendors though, there will be tons until it's scheduled.

>>1126135

Lidocaine will help with his pain but not the withdrawals.


In order of effectiveness, poppy pod tea, kratom, lidocaine, then your various OTC pills. Poppy pod tea will make him test positive for opiates, but if it's a 5-panel test it'll be the same positive he gets for his prescription, so it shouldn't raise any flags if you dose properly. Kratom won't show up on a standard test and even on an extended panel shouldn't disqualify him from his prescription.

You're absolutely correct to be hesitant on the marijuana, though. Like I said earlier I know people in pain management and getting popped for weed gets you kicked out of most pain doctors now and will be added to his medical record.

>> No.1126435

>>1126429
>>1126131
>kratom
Worth looking into. I managed to find a distributor, but there's a wide variety of products to choose from. What am I looking for in the Kratom family that's best for pain management?

>> No.1126436

>>1126435

Kratom is kind of like marijuana in that there are a ton of different strains with different effects, and most of the 'research' is being done by human guinea pigs. I'm no expert on the subject so the best I can do is direct you to a link that seems to have a good amount of basic info for beginners. Maybe someone here is a bit more knowledgeable and can help out?

http://ensobotanicals.com/best-kratom-for-pain-strains-and-advice/

https://www.kratomscience.com/strains-effects-and-dosage/

>> No.1126437

>>1126435

Also from what I've read you'll want to avoid the extracts. While they do tend to be more potent, from what I understand they'll absolutely skyrocket your tolerance in no time and just end up costing you a lot more in the long run.

Everything I've read about kratom seems to indicate it's a more-than-viable treatment for chronic pain and something I've been wanting to try for a while. I plan on stocking up big before it gets scheduled, I've just been wanting to make sure I've got it all figured out before I invest bigly. Even if your pops gets his meds back it might not be a bad idea to get a big stock of the stuff while you can.

>> No.1126440

>>1126436
>>1126437
Fantastic - thank you for the insight and for the links. Dad will certainly get his meds back this week or next, but like you said it's worth getting a big stock of kratom in case this little discrepancy happens again.

Thanks again, anon!!!

>> No.1126444

You could get kratom at smoke shops

>> No.1126447

Didnt they just outlaw Kratom?

>> No.1126448

>>1126400
>Although the pot-cookies suggestion seems to be the most viable suggestion

Tincture, its very viable for medical/pain management uses. And you arent going to have your door kicked down for it.

>> No.1126449

just buy him some beers, christ

>> No.1126450

>>1126447

Trying to - it got spared for now. There was a reprieve on the bill they tried to pass because for the time being they seemed willing to listen to public and scientific opinion. For now it's postponed.

http://www.americankratom.org/legal_status

>> No.1126451

>>1126086
Always look at the ingredients. Biofreeze is menthol at a high price.

I've had chronic pain for many years and I always research my meds.

Diclofenac gel is prescribed but not a narcotic. He could ask for that. Get the generic, not Voltaren.

Get some DMSO gel from a pet store which caters to horses. It's safe (look it up). It gives some relief on its own but I mix it with Diclofenac and apply using the back of a large spoon to reach my lower back and back of neck. DON'T OVERDO THE DMSO. A little goes a long way. Too much is very uncomfortable. Experiment.

TENs can help. Many back and neck pain problems respond to it but it's palliative, not a cure. I found a fucking wonderful way to use the same TENS pads indefinitely.

Get a roll of real Velcro sticky back hook and loop fastener tape. Make a long strip of "hook" back to back with "loop". That serves to strap your TENS pads to your neck or back since it hooks to itself. Face the LOOP side to your skin for comfort. Then apply some HOOK Velcro to your pads, stick them on your strap, and the strap maintains contact. A slight moistening with some spit on your finger helps conductivity.

>> No.1126454

>>1126451
continued.

Show your father my posts. I'm an old, white veteran and not some airhead stoner.

Weed reduces my need for oxymorphone (my spine is trashed) at night and also lets me skip enough pain meds to hoard a "war reserve" for when fills are interrupted. Cannabis prohibition came from literally the same religious fanatics who inflicted the Volstead Act on the US. It's not in any way based on science. The Harrison Act predates all modern medicine.

>> No.1126462

>>1126449
here is /diy/ - we dont do obvious solutions.

besides, 'alcohol' is bad for you, much healthier when we all pretend, we (and our families) aint junkies, because 'medically prescribed', allapplepie then. Besides, we deal only with qualified doctors, not some low-down dirty drug dealers.
>the doctor he's been seeing is no longer writing scripts for pain management
- till our 'good doctor' gets disbarred (or more likely, wrist slapped) for totally kicking the arse out of his prescription mill sideline, that is.

>> No.1126484

>>1125969
get some co codamol and use a technique called cold water extraction (cwe) to separate the codeine from the aspirin.
i do it occasionally to get high and as long as you are careful the risks are minimal

>> No.1127076

im not sure if you trying to help him from withdrawal or pain.

withdrawal ask if any one has klonapine or similar benzo to tied him over.

i've tried kratom for arthritis and it works ok. it constipates me so i dont use it that often. and the line between fun and i feel like vomiting is too close for me. but it will help you shift off an addiction if you are mentally prepaired. it helps me stop drinking. it is highly over rated as a fun drug though.

also if your not mixing tylonol with it alcohol will dull some pain

>> No.1127085

>>1125969
>DIY Pain Management or how i learned to make heroin and stop worrying

>>1125978
>alphabay
>not using dreammarket

I prescribe opium cut with fentanyl, mixed with methamphetamine to lessen the side effects such as drowsiness. Or maybe stop being retarded and talk to your doctor.

>> No.1127100
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1127100

>>1125969
marijuana or poppy seed tea

>> No.1127130

>>1125969

You can get a relatively cheap TENS (Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation) machine a lot of places. I've used one a few times for a few different things.

In a few instances it was great, other times it was just better than nothing. Depended mostly on where the pain was / what was causing it.

>> No.1127191

>>1127076
Trying to help him with pain - and kratom seems like our best bet so far.

>>1127085
>Or maybe stop being retarded and talk to your doctor.
As previously stated, he has to wait until Thursday and has no more pain management meds. This isn't about concocting or buying controlled substances it's about pain management and OTC suggestions to help take the edge off his chronic pain.

>>1127100
From what I'm reading there's a very real risk of OD using poppy seed/pod tea. Pot would help but he can't exactly toke up at work. Someone mentioned pot-cookies, too - but none of that does him any good if law enforcement catches wind.

>>1127130
The pain in his back and ribs is bone pain due to a motorcycle accident. The pain in his wrists and knuckles is tendon pain and joint pain respectively. Would a TENS machine help with any of that?

>> No.1127222

>>1125969
Kratom bro, go here "mmmspeciosa" dot com and order him some red bali and some mang da, see one he prefers. Start him out with 5 grams in a tea and raise dosage as needed. Milk will help it taste a bit better, just run warm water and mix throughly, dont shake. Ive been using kratom for 5 years for my chronic back pain, and even when i cant afford it for a month i get no withdrawl symptoms. Trust me its the best way to go.

>> No.1127241

>>1126437
I use extracts, wax, crumble, oils, etc. for pain management. Your tolerance for normal "herb" will become insane. Heavy indicas are the way to go for pain. CBD oils also help.

>> No.1127271

OP, contact the pharmacy he goes to. If he's a regular (and can CALMLY explain the situation), they might be able to try an emergency supply. Otherwise the pharmacist can recommend alternative dosing for NSAIDs+APAP to hold him over.

>> No.1128673

could always try and get CBD drops
if it's aloud there

>> No.1128694

>>1127271
>OP, contact the pharmacy he goes to. If he's a regular (and can CALMLY explain the situation), they might be able to try an emergency supply. Otherwise the pharmacist can recommend alternative dosing for NSAIDs+APAP to hold him over.

Schedule II narcotic, not gonna happen. Written 'script only.

Also, I'm guessing that OP's Dr. got his DEA # invalidated and may end up getting party v&

>> No.1128779

Buprenorphine it's schedule III. Percocets and that kind of stuff are a terrible idea for chronic pain unless it's cancer pain or something like that.

>> No.1128812

>>1125969
Bro I am a disabled vet 80 percent service connected in constant struggle with getting adequate pain management.

Vet red vein kratom. Call a local head shop and ask if they got any. Take about 4 grams mixed in chocolate milk. It taste like utter shit but works.

>> No.1128985

ive never tied pills for an extended amount of time.
depending on his dose and since its an opiate he might have a very shitty next couple days-weeks. honestly he should use this as an excuse to get off of them. try getting some ibuprofen and weed.

>> No.1128988

if your going to go the pot cookie/brownie way and are not buying them in a state that's legal. its very fucking hard to measure out the doses in any way so have him try some before he goes to work and passes out because of it. (ive been there) also kratom like others have said.

>> No.1129157

>>1126314
lol at the government... we dont want you to get high, because it is bad for you.. so we will just irradiate it instead.... for your health!

>> No.1129162

>>1129157
>we dont want you to get high, because it is bad for you

They dont want you to get high because they want to sell you the drugs in prescription form

>> No.1129257

Don't mix alcohol and acetaminophen (Tylenol). Both are cleared by the liver. Also, alcohol is absorbed quickly from the stomach so you can end up with very fast and high spikes in blood levels of the meds if taken together.

>> No.1129339

Kratom.

>> No.1129384

>>1127222
>>1128812
>>1128988
>>1129339
>kratom
This was suggested so much that I ordered some 'OG Bali Kratom' - should be coming some time early next week. If that's no good I'll switch to 'Red Vein'.

>>1128673
>>1127241
>CBD
We're in NJ so CBD is a no-no.

>>1128694
This.

>>1128779
>Buprenorphine
Aside fromnit being a narcotic and another controlled substance, my father is on some other medications that don't play well with Buprenorphine, according to drugs.com

>>1128985
He is trying to get off them and said he'll be trying for his medical cannabis permit. He's had very nasty week and doesn't want to go through this again. And ibuprofen is a no due to his blood thinners.

>>1129157
>>1129162
This.

>>1129257
Noted, thank you!

>> No.1129412

>>1129384
if you seriously need it for pain try out plantation maeng da its stronger and a little pricier

>> No.1129420

>>1129412
Will-do, thank you anon!

>> No.1129566

>>1126218
He shouldn't take the ibuprofen or aspirin since he is on anticoagulation. Acetaminophen is fine up to three or four grams a day, and he can consider using a povidone or lidocaine spray or solution. Menthol gels and capsaicin creams also have good evidence.

>> No.1129663

>>1129566
>He shouldn't take the ibuprofen or aspirin since he is on anticoagulation.
This.

>lidocaine
>menthol gel
>capsaicin
He's used lidocane patches and capsaicin creams in the past but he says they don't do much for him.

I'm really hoping the Kratom comes through for him. He's hoping to get his medical cannabis permit but in NJ it's only granted if your condition is terminal.

>> No.1129882

Small update - My father provided me with a list of medicines he's already taking minus his pain meds:

>Crestor - for cholesterol

>Zetia – to prevent intestines from absorbing food fat (for cholesterol)

>Imdur - Nitroglycerin to widen blood vessels

>Aspirin – blood thinner

>> No.1130902

>>1126143
>>1128694

DON'T DO THE ACETOMINOPHEN WHISKEY ROUTE
basically they are metabolized by the same enzyme in the liver and can cause SEVERE liver toxicity when used together.

Also the pharmacy can contact OP's doc for him and get him an early refill after explaining the situation.

I don't reccommend on using any botanical or "natural products" only because your father is taking other medications and we don't know for sure what drug-plant interactions that could cause.

>> No.1131196

>>1130902
>I don't reccommend on using any botanical or "natural products" only because your father is taking other medications and we don't know for sure what drug-plant interactions that could cause.
How would a layman discern what would and wouldn't interact negatively? I'm sorry to be a pest but I love my dad so "do nothing" and "wait" aren't valid options for me. If it comes down to it I'll have him take extremely small doses of the botanical stuff until he has a reaction or works his way up to then proper dosage of botanical supplement.

>> No.1131227

>>1131196
I hate to take the easy way out but because I don't know what you bought here are some resources that you can search. These will have more detailed information on them as well as having information on confirmed drug-plant interactions. I can't verify which sources you would have to pay for, but if you come to a pay wall just use the next resource. I hope things go well, and if botanicals work then go for it man, I would do it for my dad if they worked. Just use caution, thats all I'm saying.

NCCIH (National center for complementary and integrative health)
MEDline plus (can get info on bad reactions)
naturalmedicines.therapeuticresearch com
Cochrane database
Cards Database (Run by Gov)
Medwatch
USP
Consumer Labs
National Sanitation foundation

>> No.1132972

>>1131227
After some thorough research it seems that I can treat Kratom as a typical opioid when it comes to drug interactions - meaning the only dangers involved would be if my father was taking some kind of neurological medication or mind-altering substance (anti-depressants, neurological transmitters, alcohol, etc.). Since he is taking cholesterol medications, nitroglycerin, and aspirin he should be OK to use Kratom.

I am going to start him on the "threshold" dosage of 2 grams as found here: http://www.sagewisdom.org/kratomguide.html

Since my father is fortunate enough to have health insurance I will monitor him for any negative effects and will rush him to the emergency room in the event of a negative reaction. If no negative reaction occurs I will up the dosage and monitor him again. Rinse and repeat until he's taking a dosage suitable for his pain.

Thank you all for your outstanding input on the subject, and I'm sure my father thanks you as well. Sarcastic remarks aside, /diy/ has yet to fail me and I'm so very grateful there's a shred of humility on this god-forsaken site. If the thread is still around after our experiment is over I'll surely post the results so that anyone else in our situation can rule out negative interactions with the aforementioned cholesterol, nitro, and aspirin drugs. Again, thank you all!

>> No.1132992

avoid anything with acetaminphen in it (Tylenol) as that fucks your liver

but really, what you aught to do is take your pa down to the doctor's office and raise fucking hell
it'd be one thing if he'd given you guys a month notice, but leaving you with only a couple pills and no way to get more is fucking low

>> No.1132993

>>1126143
>acetaminophen
>alcohol
>acetaminophen

jesus fucking Christ anon
I don't even take acetaminophen at all anymore and I'm a healthy 23 year old
it is so fucking bad for your liver and kidneys and everything else it's insane, and honestly it shouldn't be on the market at all
mixing it with alcohol is the absolute peak of stupidity

>> No.1133000

>>1132992
OP here.
You think that's bad - my state (NJ) just passed a law this week stating doctors cannot prescribe more than 5 days worth of pain management meds to first-time pain management patients, and forces doctors to have a face-to-face consultation for each prescription they write.

It used to be that they would write a script for their known chronic sufferers that would last for 30 days, with 1 or 2 refills allowed between consultations. Now working-class families need to blow more money that they likely don't have on consultations every 30 days so the state can say they're doing something to curb overdose death rates (as if addicts won't find another way to get their fix). What this law actually does is push more prescription addicts to black-market heroin which will result in more overdose deaths - meanwhile patients that honestly need the medicine in order to function pay the price.

I'm not saying restrictions shouldn't be in place, but more common-sense and less sensationalism needs to be applied when creating these restrictions. These medicines were made for honest patients and to place arbitrary restrictions that make it more difficult for the honest patients is simply and sadly absurd.

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In contrast to typical protein supplements, mass winners are not only rich in protein, but also rich in other ingredients such as carbohydrates and sometimes amino acids. Here are the top ten weight and weight gain supplements.

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