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/diy/ - Do It Yourself

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1057862 No.1057862 [Reply] [Original]

Can someone help me figure out what kind of compressed gas is in this cylinder? There are no markings or stickers that would make it easy. I called some gas supply stores and they told me anything from nitrogen to chlorine to sulphur dioxide. This is what is known so far:
>Cylinder is 1 year old and never used, cylinder is from 10/15 and valve is from 8/15
>Low pressure cylinder with welded seam
>rotarex cga 660 valve (pictured)
>Colorless, odorless, tasteless
>extinguishs a flame (spray in plastic bottle and insert lit bbq lighter)
>appears to be lighter than air (if you wait to insert the lighter it will not extinguish and you cannot "pour" the gas onto a flame as with co2)
>no liquid in cylinder when shaken
>no spray or fog when either valve is opened
>does not super cool or freeze (I can put my hand right over the open nozzle with no immediate discomfort)
>Comes from a place that regularly uses and orders nitrogen, co2, argon, acetylene, and oxygen

Additionally this is what is stamped around the shoulder:
>Dot-4bw300
>M4543
>Worthj
>10-15
>Wc-42lb
>Tw- 21.5 lb
>6848jj (likely serial number)

>> No.1057872

>>1057862
Helium maybe?

>> No.1057875

>>1057872
Possibly, not exactly sure why a mechanics shop would have helium though

>> No.1057879

>>1057875
You said it was a year old and never used. Breathe it in boi.

>> No.1057882

>>1057879
True, but it serves no purpose in that sort of place unless they were planning an industrial grade birthday party or something. I guess I'll try it anyway later.

>> No.1057884

Nitrogen would fit to the description, most other gases don't.

>> No.1057885

>>1057884
That's what I'm thinking as most likely, according to some lists it can be nitrogen dioxide or trioxide. But isn't that a high pressure gas? I believe this is rated for 300 max psi.

>> No.1057887

>>1057885
Return it nigger & stop stealing shit

>> No.1057889

>>1057885
I thought nitrogen dioxide was brown

>> No.1057892

>>1057887
It was given to me because it was about to go in the trash because they had no idea what it was either. Also I'm white so the correct term is wigger.

>>1057889
I have no idea. The chart I was looking at is by valve type only.

>> No.1057915

>>1057885
Nitrogen is usually under high pressure. Nitrogen's oxides liquefy easily. They also smell and all except nitrous oxide are pretty toxic.

>>1057889
Or yellowish, if it's cold.

>> No.1057916

>>1057915
Ok so that basically rules out any nitrogens

>> No.1057929

so im pretty sure ive narrowed it down, the only things to match the valve type and properties of the gas are either some sort of cfc/fc, halide or halogen, some of which are use in refrigeration. so im willing to bet it is tetrafluoroethane (r134a) or some derivative used in ac systems because it matches the known properties and uses a cga 660 valve.
its weird though, because it does not produce a spray however i have tested the ac service valves on a car before and they definitely had a spray.

>> No.1057945

Okay, the mystery is solved as far as I'm concerned. It turns out it is a fluorocarbon refrigerant, there is a little plastic disc on the pressure relief valve, I looked up that name and it led to the rotarex website with a list of valves. And right there under the refrigerant section what is my exact valve model number and all and in the its specifications it says it's made specifically for fluorocarbons. Exactly what is in there, I don't know, but as I said I do believe it to be R134a or R22 or something similar. I'm not exactly sure why I can use this for aside from filling up like 50 cars AC systems, but hopefully I can repurpose the cylinder for something more useful.

>> No.1057946

And yes I did look up the model number on the valve itself but it only came up with resellers, not the actual website which probably would have made this process a lot easier.

>> No.1057957

>>1057945
So....we're not gonna see you inhale it?

>> No.1057959

>>1057957
Mmm nah. It's not super toxic anyway so it wouldn't be any fun.

>> No.1057981

>>1057892
>was about to go in the trash

so they were going to throw a compressed cylinder into the trash... and this didnt seem stupid in what way? you should report them, who knows how many other cylinders they threw away

>> No.1057987

>>1057945
too bad you cant definitively ID it as R22, that shit is expensive.

>> No.1057991

>>1057875
For certain welding processes

>> No.1058092

>>1057981
In the trash as in they were going to turn it over to a disposal site, not literally in the trash

>>1057987
Yeah, Maybe I can find a local shop that can positively id it or a company who has a spectrometer they would be willing to let me use for a couple bucks

>>1057991
Oh yeah forgot about that

>> No.1058233

>>1057882
if they have a tig welder they could have been planning to use if for aluminum.
https://youtu.be/yhDvRJ7HZ6E?t=3m25s

>> No.1058245

>>1057929
It's not 134a

They don't package 134a in upright cylinders

>> No.1058248

>>1058245
This, It could be R-22 that's been recycled into that container. Find a local refinery and give it to them for processing, there's nothing you can do with it.

>> No.1058249

>>1058248
>recycled
Well, not recycled, but stored.

>> No.1058250

>>1058248
They don't package r22 in upright cylinders either

They use those funky looking propane tank sized cylinders

Even the bulk cylinders look more like propane cylinders (slightly different dimensions but same style)

>> No.1058252

>>1058250
That's correct, and I don't know much about refillable cylinders or if that is one, but a lazy tech could of stored some R-22 in there after servicing.
I've never had to work R-22 though, all I know about it is that it's worth it's weight in gold because it's not manufactured anymore..

>> No.1058254

>>1058252
For good reason

It's insanely bad for the ozone

A single cfc molecule starts a chain reaction that can destroy billions of ozone molecules

>> No.1058356

>>1057959
It'd get you high

>> No.1058360
File: 412 KB, 1080x1920, Screenshot_2016-09-21-04-50-25.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1058360

This is the valve, right under the refrigerant section of the website. Also I misspoke, it was halocarbon not fluorocarbon.

>> No.1058365

And I know for an absolute fact it's brand new from the factory or wherever they ordered it from because I had to cut it off the pallet it was shipped on

>> No.1058534

>>1057862
looks like amyl nitrate. Probably from an industrial gay club.

>> No.1058697

Probably used up what was in it and repurposed it into compressed air tank

>> No.1058907

>>1058697
read the thread. the gas extinguishes a flame and is brand new with a halocarbon refrigerant valve.

>> No.1059113

>>1057862
Looks like a 100lb tank of r-404a and its empty

>> No.1059147

>>1058254
BS fill a balloon with r22 and tell me how the hell that could float to the atmosphere

>> No.1059151

>>1059147
It doesn't need to get very high to get into the ozone layer

Also when you spray it out initially it's very cold and so lowly energetic that it falls, when it heats up it goes pretty high

Think of it this way

Co2 is also heavy, but it is still present in the ozone layer because of natural convection

>> No.1059158

>>1059147
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_layer#Depletion

R22 is an HCFC and does the same thing as CFCs do to the chlorine

>> No.1059160

>>1059151
fill a balloon up with it and let it warm up then see if it can float higher then your feet

>> No.1059161

>>1059160
That's not natural convection you idiot

>> No.1059163

>>1059161
explain it then how a gas heavier then air reaches the ozone layer

>> No.1059171

>>1059163
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chlorofluorocarbons-cfcs/

Natural convection

Like I just said

The same way we get all "heavy" chemicals distributed throughout the atmosphere

>> No.1059181

>>1059171
I'm gonna read this, I'm not trying to be a dick I'm just repeating what a lot of the refrigeration people say about the patton running out on freon and the money thats been made from the ban

>> No.1059186

>>1058245
You are wrong. I work for (company who supplies the government with refrigerant gas) and we package r22,r134a,r404a and r236fa in upright cylinders. You have no idea what you are talking about. Please don't open your dumbass mouth again.

>> No.1059190

>>1058245
Also, it has dual valves on an orange 43# tank so it is either r134a or r404. R22 has a single valve. Please don't take this to a wholesaler or supply shop. You should not have that tank somebody somewhere fucked up. Use the gas and bury the tank. If you have a buddy that works at an auto shop he can tell you ifs it's r134a or not

>> No.1059192

>>1059186
Sorry. I'm speaking as a mechanical contractor that has never seen them in a tank like that, I've only seen them in the bulbous propane shaped tanks and in slightly larger versions of them

>> No.1059194
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1059194

>>1058245
Google result

>> No.1059197

>>1057862
>>1059113
Its 404 just by looking at the color and if you deal with systems that use large volumes of gas you can get any in these

>> No.1059244

>>1059113
its not a 100 pounder and its not empty, i can promise you that

>>1059190
its not a fuckup that i have it, the guy that orders shit got approval from his boss to give it to me because it was going to be disposed of anyway.

>>1059194
not a 125 pounder, only 27" tall

>>1059197
how can you tell by color? i thought there is no color standard

>> No.1059253

>>1059194
misread what youwere replying to

>> No.1059880

well in welding class years ago we learned hydrogen was in orange I think.... but now I'm thinking maybe red, I dunno, I've never had to use it, possibly helium as it sounds like an engineering shop that orders the gasses and you use helium as a specialist shielding gas when welding, weird it has a liquid/gas option, one valve must run a pipe to the bottom.

>> No.1059886

>>1057885
nitrogen oxides would not put out a flame. Pretty much all nitrogen containing gases except nitrogen itself are very reactive. Which is a result of the stability of nitrogen gas itself; any time N atoms are bonded to something else, there is an immense driving force behind any reaction the produces N2, like combustion.

You'd definitely be able to smell it, as well.

>> No.1059889

>>1059244
refrigerants have a colour code. thats the colour for r404a. but if you open the liquid valve and only get vapor, its either almost empty or not r404a. one way to tell what refrigerant it is, is to check the pressure and temperature. measure the temperature of the bottle as accurately as you can and compare it to the pressure in the tank and look at a PT chart

https://www.chemours.com/Refrigerants/en_US/assets/downloads/k10909_Suva_pressure_temp_eng.pdf

you can also see the colour coding on that chart

>> No.1059899

>>1059244
>and its not empty, i can promise you that

if its a new cylinder like you said the factory fill is just dry nitrogen.

>> No.1059968

>>1057875
Helium is great on tires.

>> No.1059971

>>1059968
> wanting your car to float away

The absolute madman

>> No.1059973

More than likly argon for use in rod welding. Keeps the inside of what you are brazing/solder clean and keeps from scaling walls