Machining General

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Machining General Anonymous Tue Jul 10 03:12:22 2018 No.1422723 [Reply] [Original]

Machining thread.
CNC, manual machining, whatever.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 04:22:16 2018 No.1422767 >>1422723 clever, toolpost holder for milling vise waiting on some aluminum, considering milling some other project but haven't really decided what I want yet

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 05:09:17 2018 No.1422785
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I need to get a deburring tool, but they come with different types of blades. I mostly work with aluminum and mild steel, extremely rare - plastics. Any recommendations for blades and the tool itself?

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 05:09:50 2018 No.1422786

>>1422723
have a manual knee mill (good and worn out, high powered drill press), a cnc mill (tormach), a large old lathe, a tiny chinese lathe, a surface grinder, a drill press, a small chinese drill press, a bandsaw (crappy), a small chinese bandsaw

What should we make /diy/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 05:11:01 2018 No.1422787 >>1422785 Carbide blades would be the way to go, but I think I have one or two with HSS blades that are still performing as intended on aluminum.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 05:24:23 2018 No.1422791 >>1422785 since it's such a small and cheap tool I would buy the Noga brand name one personally

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 06:24:46 2018 No.1422809
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What size picrelated should I choose for my future homemade CNC lathe? It's going to have an EG bed, 20mm hiwin rails, 20mm ballscrews with double ballnuts for backlash elimination, the travel is going to be 750mm for carriage and 180mm for cross slide and I hope to make it sturdy enough to machine steel. As I get it those posts are sized for a certain cross slide travel, so should I choose the 150-300 mm one or go one size bigger for 200-400 mm because chinesium?

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 06:30:15 2018 No.1422813

>>1422809
they're probably sized for a certain spindle center height from the top of the compound, actually

for that matter you would have a good bit of leeway because you will probably want to just remove the compound entirely and replace it with a solid block for a CNC application.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 06:37:08 2018 No.1422815
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>>1422813
>they're probably sized for a certain spindle center height from the top of the compound
They call the size "lathe swing" and center heights are completely different.

>just remove the compound entirely
Yeah I wasn't going to make one right from the start since there's little point to have one for CNC.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 12:57:56 2018 No.1422983 >>1422723 Can you post pics of your workshops with lathes or mills? How big a lathe and mill is needed to just fuck around with at home?

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 13:43:07 2018 No.1422998

>>1422815
Actually it seems I just never bothered to google what lathe swing is and it's exactly that - the maximum diameter of the machined part above the bed. But the question still stands. Mine will have it close to what's typical for hobby lathes of similar size, somewhere around 260 to 320 mm depending on the carriage and cross slide design which are nowhere close to being finalized yet.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 13:49:47 2018 No.1423002

>>1422983
As a hobby you can buy the smallest bench top machines and have fun with them. But you will quickly understand their limits and most likely wish you had much more size and power.

It's the reason the rule of thumb is usually "buy the biggest you can get". Vintage machines on Craigslist are a good idea, even though they are big and heavy and hard to move and seem expensive. It's not a cheap hobby and obtaining the tools is not always easy, but the effort and money spent is rewarded over just buying a cheap mini mill at say harbor freight.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 14:07:07 2018 No.1423008

>>1422785
I bought the General deburring tool that looks like that at a local hardware store.
Made in Israel which basically means its a Noga made tool with Generals name on it.

Its a really stout little tool, you just buy S10 sized blades. I think I bought 10 extras for like $7 on amazon.
Im not sure if the $15 "Approved for Automotive" brand one is the same, or a chinese knockoff. I bought the one with a decent country of origin I could put my hands on.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 18:57:00 2018 No.1423158
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I know a few people who work with CNC machines browse here.

What is scripting for CNCs like?
Is there a standard language or something?

Just did an interview for CNC job and in passing said I had taken some programming classes, and they perked up saying the sort of work they do varies so often and is so niche that they dont buy premade programs and only run custom scripting. And he alluded to the fact none of them were actually programmers.

Im just having a very difficult time figuring out what and how exactly it works as I dont know what machines they have and all that.
It would be nice to whip it out if I get another interview.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 20:02:25 2018 No.1423196

>>1423158
>What is scripting for CNCs like?
>Is there a standard language or something?
>Just did an interview for CNC job and in passing said I had taken some programming classes, and they perked up saying the sort of work they do varies so often and is so niche that they dont buy premade programs and only run custom scripting. And he alluded to the fact none of them were actually programmers.
Nigger what the fuck. There's no such thing as buying "premade programs". You could theoretically farm the work out but that would be retarded.
No one calls them "scripts" they're just "programs". The language is G-code. It's 90% universal but some machines mix around what actions certain codes actually call up and some codes are brand specific or require special options.

The only way anything you said makes sense is if they only have conversational machines because those come with example shit that you can tweak but conversational programming is way different from actual G-code or something like MasterCAM. Be very upfront that you have NO experience with G-code or you'll end up in some shit. It's not at all like a normal programming language, it's incredibly basic format wise but it's really easy to fuck a number somewhere and have to go hunt it down.

If pic is related and from their shop, Ultimax is a conversational controller. Just like every other conversational machine, they're incredibly proprietary and you really need to know what you're doing to get anything more complex than some basic pockets or a bolt circle out of them. Unless you specified, what they heard was "I've taken G-code classes" not "I took a few classes in C+/Java/etc".

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 20:16:50 2018 No.1423208

>>1423196
There's still a base program that you enter code into even if it's from scratch as you go along. You don't type code into notepad and then hit "export to mill". I think that's the king of program they meant. One that only supports just Rae code, and no 3d previews or whatever like some have.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 20:40:21 2018 No.1423238
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>>1423208
>There's still a base program that you enter code into even if it's from scratch as you go along.
No there's not. If the machine takes raw G-code, there's absolutely no "base" program outside of either a program number for it to use as a file name and or a specific symbol that tells the controller where the start and end of a file is.

%
o0000;
everything else;
%

G291;
Everything else;

That's what a "base" program looks like. There are macros like G81 for a basic drill cycle but you still have to type that all in yourself, you don't just start with a page that gives you boxes to put numbers into.

For example

%
o0001
g90 g00 g18 g40 g80
T1 M6
G00 G90 G54 X0. Y0. S2500 M3
G43 H1 Z1.
Z.1
G81 Z-.5 F5. R.1
G80
G00 Z5.
G28 Y0.
M30
%

That will drill a hole half inch to point at part zero. You have to type all of that out unless you're using a CAM software like MasterCAM. You can copy paste that and just change the numbers but that only works for simple shit like drill cycles, you can't do a complex pocket like that effectively because you're still just rewriting the whole program.

>You don't type code into notepad and then hit "export to mill".
You literally do, G-code is handled completely in plaintext. Some controllers like Siemens demand it have a specific extension (.mpf) but it's still just a fucking plain text notepad file. Every other machine I've worked on will gladly take a .txt as long as it starts and ends with a % and has a program number. If that's not how their machines work, then they're conversational and that's an entirely different beast and your knowledge of C+/Java/whatever is worth literally nothing because every company has a different way they handle inputs and how to define geometry in the controller. You admit to knowing nothing about this, why are you arguing it with someone who does it for a living?

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 21:21:23 2018 No.1423268
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>>1423208
>You don't type code into notepad and then hit "export to mill"

Yeah, because most machines will just take the straight .txt file as-is (or .gc/.nc/.ngc/.whatever).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 21:23:24 2018 No.1423269 >>1423268 Shit the siemens controllers I mentioned will still take them off a USB, it just makes you rename it to the .mpf extension while copying.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 21:39:47 2018 No.1423283

>>1423158
>>1423208
In this day and age most "modern" machine shops have 3d CAD software which either directly outputs G-code or an intermediary program which takes the CAD file as an input and outputs cutting paths.
>You don't type code into notepad and then hit "export to mill"
No shit, just learn Solidworks and SolidCAM or some other compatible CAM program.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 21:44:26 2018 No.1423285 >>1423283 >No shit, just learn Solidworks and SolidCAM or some other compatible CAM program. You know those all export as plaintext notepad files, right?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 22:00:23 2018 No.1423295 >>1423285 yeah but when was the last time you had to edit one? If the answer is recently, you're doing it wrong.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 22:12:35 2018 No.1423305
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>>1423295
Pretty often but it's not me, it's the lead programmer at the shop. He's fucking horrible about leaving shit like plunge rates at their default 6IPM and just pulling RPM and feedrates out of his ass.

>mfw his favorite thing is doing spot drills at 5000RPM and 2IPM

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 22:24:08 2018 No.1423313

>>1423305
>edit every program for specific cases, forgetting things like plunge rate and RPM.
instead of setting your output parameters to accommodate those cases when needed.
Talk to your boss about this and you might get a nice raise.
>t. did this 3 years ago.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 22:31:23 2018 No.1423316 >>1423313 Nah, they all know he's shit but the dude is like 63 and isn't going to change. That's honestly why they hired me, I'm his replacement when he retires.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 22:51:14 2018 No.1423324 >>1423316 seriously you do it all in the CAD/CAM program, not by editing the code. If you pull this off, you can be 90% more productive or fuck around 90% more of the time depending on your work ethic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 22:56:54 2018 No.1423326 >>1423324 I'm aware. I even brought up to him that he can setup shit like >3/8 3 Flute for alu >1/8 4 Flute for nickel and shit with the feeds and speeds already there but he doesn't want to think about it.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:01:12 2018 No.1423327

>>1423326
just invite him for drinks after work and run him off the road on his way home. Ask for his salary, then explain how you are going to bring the shop up to speed if you get a bonus 30k/yr on top of that.
>t. did this successfully in the late 90s.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:15:38 2018 No.1423336

>>1423327
It's a pretty tiny shop, not even 20 employees. He gets paid like 70k/year but he's been at the company for over a decade and handles a lot more than programming. I don't think the owner even pays himself 100k/year but my plan was to ask 45-50 since I don't have that much actual experience, I'm just smart and absorb things quickly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:18:37 2018 No.1423337 >>1423336 What do they make there Anon? I think you should be making more than that, and your boss should be making a lot more than he is. I work in agricultural and we all make close to $100k, even the cart-pushers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:20:42 2018 No.1423338 >>1423337 Agriculture a way of saying you're a farmer with a million or more in land? That would probably be about right then. Wages depend a lot on where you live, what the cost of living is, and how high your taxes are.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:22:01 2018 No.1423339 >>1423305 is that just at the start of the program or all the way through? I could see reduced feed rates at the start of the program as an offset sanity check.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:28:27 2018 No.1423343

>>1423196
Gonna be honest, my memory is a bit spotty I was a little anxious. I did explain I have mostly java experience, and showed them a few android apps I built. They said the programming that would be done is just scripting.

The example he gave of the basic "scripts" they make themselves was along the lines of
>input the size of the cutting tool
>script will run a sensor that automatically check the size of the stock
>will do some formula to for feedrates and other stuff

I guess since its all one off stuff building the programs takes longer and they want it all automated for what you can throw at it.
He also said that a guy just got 20% more productivity out of a machine "scripting" and that they have ideas of much more advanced ones.
Thats all I know, which leads me to believe I could come in and at least try to do something worthwhile

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:32:53 2018 No.1423344 >>1423343 Also it wasnt like a big part of the interview, it just seemed like the one thing I could potentially have an edge over another person with. Its why im trying to focus on it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:36:11 2018 No.1423345 >>1423344 a real edge would probably be manual machining experience, or at least the basics

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:36:47 2018 No.1423346

>>1423337
We're a job shop so he makes a lot of his money by undercutting the local competition. Not my place to question his methods but yeah I think we should be charging a lot more for a lot of the various parts we do. He saves a lot of money on labor because we'll have one person running 2-3 machines and he doesn't pay his hourly guys shit. Most of the operators are under $14/h. Of course, he gets what he pays for, none of them have any actual machining knowledge and a couple have legit room temperature IQ's.

As for what we make, all sorts of shit including exotic alloys and plastics but I don't want to go into detail.

>>1423339
All the way through, sometimes in the middle for one tool he forgot about. He'll also copy past shit like drill cycles but forget to take a point out that was supposed to be a different drill or some shit.
He'll also do shit like
G1 F100.
instead of a rapid movement so we'll have it at 5% rapid for setup and suddenly the fucking table flies across the machine because we're watching the tool not the code stream.
>>1423343
>>input the size of the cutting tool
>>script will run a sensor that automatically check the size of the stock
>>will do some formula to for feedrates and other stuff

I'd need a lot more info for that to make much sense but it sounds like they just have some fancy shit going with a probe system. There's really not that much in coding you can script. Are you sure they weren't talking about setup scripts? That involves bringing a probe down the controller can talk to and it can tell it where the part is, if it's tilted, etc and then touch tools off using a touch post in the corner. But that's not actually creating toolpaths.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:39:13 2018 No.1423348 >>1423346 yeah maybe they have a probing routine to test the part in the setup and save on inspection or something

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:40:26 2018 No.1423350

>>1423295
all the time. post processors for CAM software are not perfect and don't work the same on every machine. its way easier to just go into the text file and dress up the code than it is to try to seamlessly integrate a czech bar loader with a jap lathe using american CAM software.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:41:37 2018 No.1423351

>>1423346
>but it sounds like they just have some fancy shit going with a probe system.

They have two 6 axis CNCs they said are brand new and pretty high tech. But again he was very vague.

Im guessing setup scripts are going to be pretty dependent on the specific systems?

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:47:03 2018 No.1423357

>>1423351
who knows, but they probably want to probe machined parts in the machine before they unclamp it and take it to the inspection department or something.

if the precision of the machine is good the results will be reasonably accurate, and they could still test one out of every so many in the inspection dept.

Anonymous Tue Jul 10 23:47:41 2018 No.1423358

>>1423351
>Im guessing setup scripts are going to be pretty dependent on the specific systems?
Yes, you need to tune them to what you're planning to work on.

>>1423348
I mean, a 3 axis with a probe is basically a mediocre CMM. I'm sure there's ways to set them up like one.

>>1423350
Also this, sometimes MasterCAM will do weird fucking shit if you're not paying absolute attention and chain something badly on accident where it tries to turn cutter comp on while doing a g2/g3. I'm surprised it even allows that in the post processor, are there some machines that will take it? It throws an alarm on all of ours and we've got HAAS/FANUC/SIEMENS.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:19:50 2018 No.1423366 >>1423358 what else would you be writing macros/scripts for on a day to day basis?

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:21:27 2018 No.1423368

Anybody have any good links or know of any good books for an almost complete beginner? I've worked as a welder and in a sheet metal shop for a number of years so I know some of the peripherals but I've never actually had any time on a CNC. I've been wanting to learn for a while but I just don't know where to start.

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:24:30 2018 No.1423369
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>>1423368
NYC CNC on youtube, his old videos where he learns basically everything.

Like I'm doing right now. Got some time until more aluminum stock arrives, time to dick around.

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:28:32 2018 No.1423370

>>1423366
it can take weeks to prove out a program for a complicated part. there is no room for error in this shit either when you are talking about crashing a million dollar machine. you will be going through G-code line by line, cutting air, and watching the same 3 tool changes for 5 hours troubleshooting trying to figure out why your machine was changing coordinate systems every time it changed tools even though there was no command for that.

more succinctly, you aren't writing all day, you are debugging and validating.

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:36:25 2018 No.1423373
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>>1423368
Also the machinery's handbook is ubiquitous. CNC is a little more abstracted from the work, if you're not cranking handles you can't feel the feedback (vibration) from what you're doing, and crashes and parts coming loose happens a lot faster too.

The sound the machine is making is quite important for CNC.

>>1423370
debugging a post processor, yeah that could take some actual programming experience. Or is the control what is acting weirdly? It seems to me that the person doing the CAD/CAM stuff should be the one debugging that shit, because modifying the CAM re-generates giant pieces of code, absolutely fucking required for complicated shit.

So the problem is the machine behaving weirdly from some code, the workflow from there is to check the CAD/CAM canned cycle parameters, and then where to? Post processor for the machine? Manually edit the code as a crappy work-around?

How common are these post processor bugs?

I teach C, C++, and some C# in my spare time.

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:45:50 2018 No.1423375

>>1423373
>How common are these post processor bugs?
They're not usually bugs it's more "I did exactly what you told me to do, that just wasn't what you wanted." Unless it's something crazy complex, it's usually a very simple typo fix or switching around an option or two in the CAM software and only regenerating that bit. Gcode is such a simple language that it's hard to really dick something up if you have any idea what you're doing. Though I've spent 30 minutes trouble shooting an "invalid arc radius" because I accidentally a ; and didn't notice right away because the line was so long it wrapped to the next love on the screen so I thought it had the ;. It's usually dumb shit like that or forgetting to set the cutter comp to wear comp and not computer which makes it calculate the actual point to point numbers completely differently.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:51:02 2018 No.1423376 >>1423375 Wait, so you write a lot of G-code manually? How can that possibly be productive in the modern environment? You could have the CAM software setup on a desktop or laptop near your machine and make the edits in the CAM software.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:52:48 2018 No.1423377 >>1423375 >>1423376 If it wasn't obvious I just think modifying the G-code directly is a tedious outdated approach most of the time. What kind of CAM software are you using?

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:58:08 2018 No.1423380

>>1423376
Because we're a tiny ass shop with one copy of MasterCAM. Programming by hand is also still faster for basic programs, like a quick bolt circle and what I was doing MasterCAM won't output because it's a bit of a hack and otherwise would have taken 2 minutes without the syntax error. Drawing shit, tool pathing and generating code for even simple parts takes a decent bit of time and then there's the time to transfer it to the machine. We have one that only takes floppies and another that requires a serial number port cable DNC transfer. So why would I spend 15-30 minutes in MasterCAM and another 5-10 to transfer the program when I can write it by hand in ten?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 11 00:59:46 2018 No.1423381 >>1423377 MasterCAM 2018. I'm the job shop Anon so it's really common to have fresh programs all the time that need adjustments. Especially with how bad our programmer is sometimes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 11 01:00:48 2018 No.1423382 >>1423380 >serial number Meant just serial port

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 01:06:13 2018 No.1423386

>>1423380
Damn, I wish cam software companies had never taken the approach of selling licenses for thousands of dollars, Fusion 360 is great.

I wonder if you could convince the boss to buy you a month or two of Fusion 360 license (like $60 probably), just to have something to work with yourself. ofc I'm really just spitballing here, but it could end up making your life a whole lot easier and make the shop more money.

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 01:37:13 2018 No.1423392

>>1423373
>debugging a post processor
the only people i've ever seen modify a post is the company that makes it. thats typically how it works if you are in a shop. you find a bug and you can either try to back and forth trying to get modifications made to the post with some dude from GibsCAM (no i didn't spell it wrong) or you can just go into the text file and change whatever error it spit out manually. usually you do the latter because its faster and doesn't cost any money.

>Or is the control what is acting weirdly?
all of the above. sometimes you have to dig into the machines ladder logic to get stuff to work.

>>1423376
>Wait, so you write a lot of G-code manually? How can that possibly be productive in the modern environment?

its not really writing, its optimization and debugging. and yes, by hand is still the best method. the manufacturing industry is crazy behind the times in terms of technology. CAM software is generally shit. having playstation tier machine models and crash detection is considered state of the art.

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 01:39:38 2018 No.1423393

>>1423380
>We have one that only takes floppies and another that requires a serial number port cable DNC transfer.

holy shit this too. i've worked with so many machines that have fucking punch tape readers on the side with some frankensteined FANUC controller and a 3.5" floppy. this is what i'm talking about when i say the manufacturing industry is behind the times. you talk to some of these geezers about the cloud or IoT connectivity between machines and they lose their fucking minds.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 11 01:49:33 2018 No.1423394 >>1423369 >>1423373 I'll check him out, thanks senpai!

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 02:05:00 2018 No.1423395

>>1423393
I read something about Okuma machine switching to a PC controller recently, not sure what they were referring to.

If it means PC components then they would be practically infinitely upgradeable.

If it means PC software will run on the controller that's probably good too.

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 03:13:23 2018 No.1423404

>>1423343
>>1423351
>future button pusher

>>1423375
>>1423376
>>1423377
>>1423380
jesus christ, I didn't know handcoding shit was still around. I always use cam because I can change every little aspect of the program I want and check it in the simulation.

>>1423393
shame of the thing is that machines cost so much fucking money that you're kinda forced to use old shit because it's the only thing in your price range...

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 11 03:14:36 2018 No.1423405 >>1423404 >>future button pusher Gotta start somewhere anon

Anonymous Wed Jul 11 06:23:34 2018 No.1423451

>>1423158
I haven't done any CNC machining but done plenty of work with custom 3D printers doing all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff which all runs on gcode.

If you can code any programming language, then GCODE will be a breeze for you. Its very straightforward. You could learn it in a day. I suggest you spend a day studying it. You'll benefit a lot from it.
Its simple:

G28 W ; home all axes without mesh bed leveling
G80 ; run mesh bed leveling routine
G1 Y-3.0 F1000.0 ; prepare to prime
G92 E0 ; reset extrusion distance
G1 X60.0 E9.0 F1000.0 ; priming
G1 X100.0 E12.5 F1000.0 ; priming
M900 K30 ; linear advance recommended settings
G92 E0
G1 E-1.5000 F1800
G1 Z0.575 F1002
; process Process1
; layer 1, Z = 0.375
T0 ; tool H0.375 W0.480

All stuff that has G1 is normal move. Its telling it to move from its position to that coordinate. F3900 is the feedrate.

G1 X66.204 Y88.295 E0.1990 F3900
G1 X66.540 Y88.240 E0.2245
G1 X71.883 Y88.884 E0.6272
.... etc rest of print job goes here.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 11 06:25:34 2018 No.1423453 >>1423451 I mean, you can get by without sure. But its a good to have that basic knowledge of what makes your machine go.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 12 00:54:04 2018 No.1424018 File: 191 KB, 936x638, ames backplunge indicator.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1422723 what kind of machines does everyone have at home?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 12 02:30:12 2018 No.1424047 >>1424018 12x36 Craftsman Atlas Lathe, and PM727M mill. Everything else is woodworking stuff, I dont have a machinist job just doing this as a hobby.

Anonymous Thu Jul 12 02:52:18 2018 No.1424051
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>>1424047
16x54 Pratt & Whitney lathe, G0752 chinese mini-lathe, Comet knee mill from the 80s, Tormach 1100 CNC mill, Harig 618 ballway surface grinder, a couple drill presses, bandsaw, chop saw, etc.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 12 04:31:21 2018 No.1424075 >>1422723 Do you guys recommend machining as a career?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 12 12:55:08 2018 No.1424321 nothin' like shitposting while a CNC is banging away in the background

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 12 12:56:10 2018 No.1424322 >>1424075 considering how easily machinists can start a business in their garage, I would say yes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 12 13:09:13 2018 No.1424328 >>1424018 Old 80's okuma mill at the shop, mazak 6300 mill turn, and a mori seiki sl20 lathe with live tooling. Old clausing lathe and a Bridgeport for quick shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 12 13:38:34 2018 No.1424353 >>1424075 Only if you're actually smart and good at trouble shooting. Otherwise you'll get stuck as an operator for life.

Anonymous Thu Jul 12 14:52:08 2018 No.1424389

>>1424018
KO lee tool cutter grinder, 12x36 central machinery gear head lathe, 9x49 150vsl manfordsuper precision vertical mill, 6x12 harig surface grinder, 24x36 surface plate, syncrowave 250 tig welder, 175A HF mig welder, 290A tombstone welder, and one of those horizontal bandsaws.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 06:36:16 2018 No.1424823 Any one got any good tips for setting tool z axis offset?

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 16:56:33 2018 No.1425046

>>1424823
Bring the tooldown onto a piece of paper, keep trying to move it until it moves no longer, add the thickness of the paper to your offset. That's only if the part doesn't need to be taken to size, otherwise, just bring the tool down to touch while the spindle is on, and take your first cut, that will be your zero. If you are in an upscale shop, and others won't be messing with your tools, then your toolholder is a known length, just measure the height out of the machine.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 17:40:53 2018 No.1425068 >>1423196 nah, let him crash a $30k spindle on his first (and last day)

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 18:11:34 2018 No.1425083 >>1424322 shhhh! don't tell people that they too can be a one man machine shop.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 18:15:01 2018 No.1425084

Could you guys tell me, if link related is something for working small stuff up to stainless steel?

https://www.amazon.de/SWM-Vario-Leitspindel-Drehmaschine-Varioline/dp/B06XSWN9WG/ref=pd_sbs_60_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B06XSWN9WG&pd_rd_r=0998381b-86ea-11e8-be8f-752c631a86ea&pd_rd_w=fKHMA&pd_rd_wg=62Q3Z&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_p=1662399603728955198&pf_rd_r=V424N8CDVGZ8YMEJN68N&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=V424N8CDVGZ8YMEJN68N

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 18:20:38 2018 No.1425088 Everybody just download a free tutorial from heidenhein . G-code is fucking easy. Its like Basic.And ....do it conventionel if you are dunmb then you write a program.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 18:21:52 2018 No.1425089 >>1423238 that realy doesnt help for starters

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 18:33:30 2018 No.1425095 >>1425083 I make an extra ~$20k a year between my Tormach and Bridgeport clone. Easy money except for the working in the heat.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 18:34:24 2018 No.1425096 >>1425095 where do you find work?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 18:57:23 2018 No.1425108 >>1425084 buy old and bigger than you need. because eventually you'll want it. and old is better than the new shit china (taiwan too) puts out.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 20:03:01 2018 No.1425139 >>1425083 whats the capital investment for start up tho? knee mill and an engine lathe are $20k, never mind tooling. 1 year ROI?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 20:04:16 2018 No.1425141 >>1425096 overflow from bigger shops. farmers and hotrodders.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 20:10:36 2018 No.1425145 File: 100 KB, 700x700, 49564_700x700.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] these things any good?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 20:18:23 2018 No.1425148 >>1425068 If a shop lets someone untrained on a machine and then he crashes it, its their own damn fault for being stupid. Itll be better for him in the long run to get into a shop that will actually train him.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 20:19:47 2018 No.1425149 >>1425145 They are mediocre at everything. Dont go out and buy a brand new one, but youll have fun on one if you get it cheap.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 20:22:02 2018 No.1425151

>>1425145
As a general rule, no, however it's better than nothing if your doing light duty work and are limited by then number of machines you can have, IMO the main drawback is that the lathe can't cut threads which limits your ability to construct additional tooling, you''d be much better off getting a small lathe with threading capabilities and then building a milling attachment if you actually need it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 20:25:14 2018 No.1425154 >>1425151 >the main drawback is that the lathe can't cut threads Eww you are right, that is a HUGE problem.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 13 21:24:09 2018 No.1425171 >>1422723 I need an accurate hole, I don't want to have to buy and use a reamer. How accurate can you get a hole plunge-milling it with an end-mill? I don't mean interpolating it out, since it is small (3/16) I just mean drilling it with an end mill.

Anonymous Fri Jul 13 21:33:34 2018 No.1425178

>>1425139
well if you knew what to look for I would say buy used, I found an Okuma low end job shop VMC (vertical machining center) for $15k.

It doesn't have much memory, and something might stop working which will cost a lot to repair, but it would crank out good parts quickly.

For a job shop CNC though you could probably buy a Tormach new and be better off.

my capital investment so far in the production run I'm doing the R&D for right now is from $25,000 to $30,000.

that's a:
>surface plate
>surface grinder
>Tormach 1100
>worn out bridgeport for $1,500
>old lathe for $1,500 (no spare parts available for pratt and whitney lathes)

The surface plate, surface grinder, a couple indicators, a granite master square, etc. were for a different product. It didn't sell well so I never continued, but they are handy for maintaining precision tools around the shop, like hardened vise jaws. I bet if I had made something like a sine plate or an angle dresser it would have sold reasonably well, but I was too stupid and now I'm working on something else.

I'll be done with the endeavor by the end of the year, so you can find out how it goes for me then.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 03:01:32 2018 No.1425330 >>1425108 thanks

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 05:45:54 2018 No.1425367 >>1425178 >For a job shop CNC though you could probably buy a Tormach new and be better off. Why not buy an old machine with faster feeds and more rigidity?

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 05:57:11 2018 No.1425371
File: 98 KB, 800x600, mini mill.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1425367
Because of the aforementioned liability of having to replace an expensive part that may be hard to find.

For job shop type work the extra speed won't be essential, which is why I qualified that. Plus, the machine is new, there is less wear on it.

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 06:20:02 2018 No.1425382

>>1425367
Actually for that matter, one of those converted knee mills they sell in magazines might be ok.

There's one in the KBC tools magazine new for $27,000. It has all the handwheels and stuff on it for manual machining too. I'm not so sure they will handle vibration like the Tormach will though, the knee is really kind of a weak point on them, but they do have a big heavy base and a larger working envelope.

https://www.kbctools.com/products/MACHINERY/MILLING%20MACHINES/CNC%20MILLING%20MACHINES/10016.aspx

>only $22k

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 06:47:26 2018 No.1425390

>>1425371
I mean, you make a good point, tormach does make a decent little machine that's single phase, cheaper, and new, but when I buy a machine I'm going to buy used and make sure I can find parts for it and not clapped out of course. Because for me a tool changer and faster feeds and speeds is necessary for taking more jobs and more capability like the larger work envelope.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 06:50:37 2018 No.1425395 >>1425390 If you think the toolchanger is important, then the tormach or the used machine may be the only ways to go, because converted bridgeports mostly won't have them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 07:01:25 2018 No.1425400 >>1423376 Lots of modern machines let you code on the machine using prebuilt commands, like if you need to turn a face you can input all parameters on the floor and write it into the program from mdi .

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 07:14:01 2018 No.1425404 >>1425400 that's called conversational, it uses canned cycles on the controller to generate large pieces of G-code, not quite writing the code manually

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 07:59:49 2018 No.1425425 >>1425395 I know, I've used haas mills, okuma, mazak lathes, and bridgeports. I'm about to put 17k down on a Mazak quick turn 18 with live tooling. Then maybe a haas vf3

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 08:01:20 2018 No.1425428 >>1425425 sweet, already got a business or starting one?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 08:10:55 2018 No.1425434 >>1425139 50-75k for basic used machines cnc lathe&mill I'm>>1425428 >>1424328 100k in and I'm paid off and looking for more machines to get more work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 18:21:59 2018 No.1425778 Might be a dumb question, but I'll post it anyways. Is it possible to turn an already milled part ? The part in question is a monocore silencer on which I want to reduce the OD to fit in a smaller sleeve.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 18:47:10 2018 No.1425784 >>1425778 It absolutely is possible to turn an already milled part, it just may make it very difficult to hold onto.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 18:53:24 2018 No.1425785 >>1425778 that sounds like dead simple work

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 19:00:43 2018 No.1425787 >>1425784 Yeah, I'll figure it out later >>1425785 given the geometry of a monocore silencer I was uncertain if the tool would hit too hard when it meets the hollow zones

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 19:04:24 2018 No.1425789

>>1425778
You can pretty much turn anything you can hold in a lathe, with a suppressor core you may have issues holding onto it without damage and the interrupted cut will make good accuracy and finish more challenging, you could probably get away with sandwiching it on a mandrel and then running it with a center.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 19:12:20 2018 No.1425795 >>1425787 yeah it's called an interrupted cut, inserts have ratings for taking interrupted cuts well. What is it made of, is it hard?

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 19:20:41 2018 No.1425797

>>1425789
Thx for the terminology, did not know the term ! (English is not my first language, neither is machining !)

>>1425795
First step will be on a cheap monocore from wish, so probably chinesium, then if the concept works i'll get my hands on a Al 7075 monocore.

If it works I'll go all the way from stock to finish in different calibers/monocore designs

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 19:46:58 2018 No.1425809 >>1425797 7075 for pistol caliber stuff? I wouldn't recommend aluminum for rifle stuff.

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 20:01:41 2018 No.1425815

>>1425809
No idea. I figured going for .22lr silencer would be the safest, but if I can I'll go for 9mm, .223 and .308

I wanted to use " compensators" like these as a starting point
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MUZZLE-BRAKE-STORM-1-2X28-THREAD-6-5INCH-7075-ALUMINIUM-22CAL/163132625062?hash=item25fb7650a6:g:GBQAAOSwfGdbOhdI

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 20:32:22 2018 No.1425828 >>1425778 Yeah, that's just an interrupted cut. Perfectly fine with a steady feed

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 21:06:42 2018 No.1425839
File: 661 KB, 1500x1000, keyboard_case_with_lid.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I don't have any machining equipment, how feasible would it be to get me this but in aluminium: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/datamancer-planck-hardwood-keyboard-case
Is that even viable without paying exorbitant amounts?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 21:51:13 2018 No.1425856 >>1425839 yes but not from a real shop, find someone with manual equipment in their garage

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 21:54:04 2018 No.1425858 >>1425856 Alright, I'll try to do that then. Damn, this is gonna be a pain, I literally don't know anyone who could have that, so this is gonna be a search.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 22:12:16 2018 No.1425864 >>1425839 Just the aluminum itself it going to cost a fair bit Its not hard to actually make

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 22:15:26 2018 No.1425865

>>1425864
I'd imagine economies of scale (or rather lack thereof) would make it much more expensive.
Normal aluminium keyboard cases typically go for $60-$100, so I'm definitely expecting to pay at least that, but I have no idea how much getting a one-off machining job would cost. As the other anon suggested I'm going to try hunting for random people willing to do it, which hopefully shouldn't break the bank, but that's gonna be a giant pain.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 22:18:12 2018 No.1425867 >>1425865 Post an add on craigslist asking to commission a basic one off machining job. The dudes who are willing to work in their garage will respond to you. The shops who dont have the time to deal with a random guy in public would ignore it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 22:18:24 2018 No.1425868 >>1425858 you could post an ad on craigslist, "WTB: machine work" and see how many retired toolmakers take you up on it.

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 22:19:48 2018 No.1425869
File: 186 KB, 750x563, tormach innashop2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1425839
If you can provide a 3d model of it, it wouldn't be hard to machine on my equipment.

I do have other stuff to be doing, though. Spend like 20 minutes in Fusion 360 creating a 3d model of both parts.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 22:22:18 2018 No.1425870 >>1425869 protip too: don't add in the fillets and chamfers until it's all done, and start the project with History enabled, then upload in the fusion 360 file format so it's super easy to work with.

Anonymous Sat Jul 14 22:23:40 2018 No.1425871

>>1425867
>>1425868
That's actually an excellent idea that I hadn't thought of.

>>1425869
>>1425870
Shit nice man. It's 3am right now, but I'll try to shit something usable out tomorrow (bearing in mind I've never used Fusion), but no worries if you can't be bothered in the end.
Now to figure out the measurements since I don't have the other keyboard parts yet...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 14 22:25:07 2018 No.1425873 wwww

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 15 01:09:28 2018 No.1425940 >>1425171 Depending on conditions the finish will be pretty shit because there's no back taper on and endmill but it should give you the hole within half a thou or so, whatever your runout is.

Anonymous Sun Jul 15 20:20:06 2018 No.1426509

>>1425869
>>1425871
I got something going but then I realised I was missing some information that I'm going to have to hunt for, to reproduce the exact design. So this will have to be put on hold until I get that.
Either way, thanks for the tips, and for pointing me to the right path.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 15 20:53:50 2018 No.1426525 >>1425839 There are a couple models on grabcad for keyboard cases. 40% keyboard case and a 60% https://grabcad.com/library/60-case-1 https://grabcad.com/library/kwark-keyboard-aluminium-case-1

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 15 22:58:35 2018 No.1426592 >>1426525 gotta be careful with grabcad. their shit is sometimes fucked beyond all reason with nonsense dimensions.

Anonymous Mon Jul 16 02:27:52 2018 No.1426684
File: 6 KB, 211x239, jnekring yoy derbs.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1422723
Should I invest time and money into classes at a community college for learning to mill, or would I be better off buying a used mill to fuck around on and watching youtube videos?

Anonymous Mon Jul 16 03:59:12 2018 No.1426718

>>1426684
I'd definitely take the class and then you'll know if you like it too, and in pretty good conditions.

If you buy a beginner's mill and have a bad time, you'll never know you would have actually loved it with a good mill.

>community college has no machining course anymore
>Local UC does, but that's like $150 a uni and enrolled students can bump you whenever.

Anonymous Mon Jul 16 12:13:48 2018 No.1426857

>>1425139
My BP clone was about $6K new (Taiwanese, Precision Matthews brand) great machine so far.
It has more than paid for itself in the first year.

The initial investment on my Tormach PCNC 1100 was about $14k, then within the next few months, I spent around $3-4k for tooling (vises, fixture plates, tool holders, tools, etc.)

I bought the Tormach with a personal loan, the additional tooling was paid for with cash. I'm still paying on it, I've only had it for a few months, but it has been pretty good. I'm not as satisfied with it as I am the PM mill, but I would say, price wise, for a new machine that has customer support. It is worth the price.

Also I did not have to higher riggers to move it or make any special accommodations for it in my garage. I just cleared out a space and wired in a 240V and 115 outlet for where I needed. (An older industrial machine like a HAAS would have wanted 3phase power, and would have needed at least a fork lift to get it off a trailer, up my driveway and into place.)

The Tormach has been paying for itself fairly easily and has allowed me to take on work that I would not have wanted to bother with doing manually (20-250ea on quantity).

I'm planning on moving soon, and was looking at houses with a split 3 car garage. If that happens, I may give my wife the single car garage, and use the 2 car garage for an insulated and air conditioned shop. (That would be the dream, realistically, it would be cheaper to turn the smaller garage into a shop, but I wouldn't be able to upgrade to a larger machine.) a Tormach and BP side by side are about the length of a car, plus a band saw, small lathe, and a workbench, it would be tight)

Someday I will retire and do machining from home full time. I just hope its before I reach the age of retirement.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 16 12:15:18 2018 No.1426858 >>1425171 hold the endmill in a collet, not a drill chuck. A drill chuck will have shit run out compared to a nice collet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 16 12:17:18 2018 No.1426860 >>1425367 Because a replacement spindle for a Tormach is around $2k. A replacement spindle for a Okuma is more than he paid for the machine.

Anonymous Mon Jul 16 12:53:46 2018 No.1426874

>>1426860
replacement spindle for a tormach is around $800 actually.

Also, the new 1100M and MX models mean upgrade kits for series 3 users, finally Servos and I really hope the spindle orientation sensor for rigid tapping.

I suspect that there could be a 7500RPM spindle upgrade too.

Anonymous Mon Jul 16 13:22:13 2018 No.1426898

>>1426874
I spoke with Tormach a few days ago, they cannot offer an upgrade from the series 3 to the MX model spindle.

The spindle cartidge is different size.
(I have not asked about just buying the head casting too, yet.)

Maybe we will see a spindle upgrade for the series 3, but it won't be the MX spindle.

I was sad too.

Anonymous Mon Jul 16 13:33:10 2018 No.1426909

>>1426898
Ever looked into using a grinding vise for squaring up stock?

In most testing it deforms the back jaw less. I'm just now considering it because I have both of my good vises on my Tormach and the Dayton vise I had previously repaired broke again. It was free I can't complain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckknLkwx9Sw

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 16 13:37:20 2018 No.1426911 >>1426909 Now that I think about it, I could probably fit 3-4 on my 1100 table for the cost of one good Kurt or GMT vise.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 16 13:50:26 2018 No.1426918 >>1426909 >>1426911 hard to clamp them down in the normal orientation unless they have the toe clamp slots on the slides though

Anonymous Mon Jul 16 13:56:22 2018 No.1426924

>>1426909
No, sorry, the type of work I typically do is +/-.005", so 1-2 thou deflection isn't worth worrying about for me.

But I would say grinding vises are less convenient than 'standard'? milling vises. Both with vise mounting and setting up stock to cut. Also, softjaws are very very handy.

Anonymous Mon Jul 16 16:27:20 2018 No.1427039

>>1426860
>1.5 hp motor vs 15 hp motor
>higher feed rates and speeds on old okuma
>tts isn't compatible with cat or bt tooling

I mean yeah tormach is newer and parts are slightly less, but a older machine is faster, more rigid, and can hold a hell of a lot more stock to machine multiple parts in one setup than the tormach.

Anonymous Tue Jul 17 01:17:29 2018 No.1427352
File: 11 KB, 650x163, 1518130775881.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1422723
Does anyone here have experience with the Root 3 DIY CNC? I want to mill aluminum into lower receivers and don't want to do some fucky shit with a hand drill. A lot of the videos online are for basedboy tier projects or show a clip of aluminum being milled with no details. I'm hoping to spend less than $500 if possible. So far it seems my options are:
>DIY mill
>harbor freight + coupon
>wait for someone to die and get a used one at a yard sale

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 17 02:22:20 2018 No.1427373 >>1427352 You can get anodized 80% lowers for 40$ The 0% forges cost 15-20 already. Do you really think you are going to make money like this?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 17 02:24:28 2018 No.1427374 >>1427352 Also no, that cnc router isn't going to work for receivers, making 80%s or completing them. It will make a sign out of wood

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 17 02:34:48 2018 No.1427376 >>1427352 ar lowers are a saturated market, if you want to stand out you probably need to CNC machine them from billet stock and add some nice features like other high-end lower manufacturers do.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 17 02:40:53 2018 No.1427378 >>1427376 which would mean spending a few months doing R&D and machining prototypes

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 17 03:06:08 2018 No.1427383 File: 69 KB, 720x720, freedoms.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1427373 This isn't about money, this is about freedom. I'd like to learn how to make them from scratch :).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 17 03:18:10 2018 No.1427386 >>1427383 oh then a precision matthews mini mill would work well

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 17 03:53:07 2018 No.1427401 >>1427386 looks like I really gotta start saving up my shekels.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 17 03:59:16 2018 No.1427403 >>1427401 I'm not gonna say you should CNC it, but you should CNC it. Because the workflow of 3d model to part is fantastic, and compared to cranking handles all day and eating chips and smoke and coolant, CNC is amazing.

Anonymous Tue Jul 17 04:25:59 2018 No.1427411

>>1427403
whats the best/economical/cheapest way into CNCing aluminum stock no smaller than a receiver? I'd like to use the mill for other projects as well. The Meme Gunner seems like a one trick pony, but I might be mistaken. From my recollection, it can't do 0% lowers.

Can a CNC mill be kicked over to manual mode if I want to smooth out stock before running it through the program? I'm a complete noob and have only used a CNC mill once years ago.

Anonymous Tue Jul 17 05:33:12 2018 No.1427424
File: 30 KB, 700x700, tormach PCNC1100_Series3_nostand.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1427411
A Tormach 440, for sure.

I sound like a Tormach shill now, but they really are worthwhile machines, or at least my 1100 is.

Made in China, finished and inspected in USA. At a starting price of $6,000 for the base machine minus machine stand and all the goodies. I would say it's worth it to be able to CNC small aluminum stuff in a reasonable amount of time.

As this guy said though, >>1427039 a $15k used job shop model CNC would be way more powerful, but until you have deadlines and orders for thousands of parts the cycle times might not matter as much.

I bought an 1100 as a business venture to manufacture an item I'm working on, I am going to be building inventory for a while before releasing to the market. There are a lot of variables like how fast they sell, etc. to needing a faster machine, and if I can't produce enough to meet the demand then the money made from the initial production run will easily pay for a brand new Haas/Mazak/Okuma, and I have some friends who run machine shops to handle overflow work (demand beyond my capacity) until I can afford better machines.

https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=PCNC440_PREMIUM_PKG&portrelay=1

I would like to see something similar made in the USA, but they do work well. If anyone has done something similar I would like to hear about how it went.

If there are any competitor machines around I don't know about, that would be cool to learn about too.

Anonymous Tue Jul 17 10:55:16 2018 No.1427517

Is it a good idea to buy a MillRight CNC M3 to learn CAD and do woodworking, make pretty shit and sell to hipsters and tourists so I can save up to a "real" hobbymill like a Tormach 440
I saw on plebbit somebody used one to finish a 80% ar lower, which is useless in my cunt but nice to know it has the ability

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 17 15:32:21 2018 No.1427652 >>1427383 Then buy a jig and a hand drill

Anonymous Tue Jul 17 15:38:51 2018 No.1427654

>>1427517
It would be more useful to have a good idea of what you want to make beforehand, and to know how to sell it, and where.

Without confidence that you can make money on it, well it's not the right choice. So do some research and answer your own question.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 18 02:35:57 2018 No.1428024 Can I use FreeCAD with OpenBuilds C-Beam CNC plate maker? Anything special I should know?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 18 17:26:33 2018 No.1428444 What software do you all build 3d models in? I'd love to have solidworks, but it seems to be priced outside of my reach, especially as a dabbling hobbyist...

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 18 17:49:32 2018 No.1428461 >>1428444 It's easily pirated

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 18 19:00:38 2018 No.1428499 >>1428444 Fusion 360, because the startup license is free until you make $100k/year.

Anonymous Wed Jul 18 19:22:40 2018 No.1428511

>>1422723
I've applied for a job in a local machine shop that has an apprentice program, and while waiting to hear back, I found a lot of older information online from a series of 2005 MIT videos on youtube and a smattering of other sources. How relevant is that information today in a modern cnc machine shop? I assume it's going to be much more carbide tooling and very little if any manual milling, but the premise seems simple enough. What am I in for?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 18 19:24:21 2018 No.1428515 >>1428511 *1995

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 18 20:02:22 2018 No.1428546 >>1427424 >baseline >6k Shit, can't you just run a router really slowly?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 18 20:16:02 2018 No.1428560 >>1428546 No. The "fuck no" kind of no.

Anonymous Wed Jul 18 20:18:08 2018 No.1428562

>>1428546
maybe if you aren't removing a lot of material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE-49w6JtTk

router has crazy spindle speeds usually, and that can reduce cutting forces so it doesn't have to power through cuts. I've never tried it, but you should in theory be able to whittle away at an aluminum block on a router.

link related, 24k rpm spindle engraving a coin

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 18 22:13:55 2018 No.1428620 >>1426684 Of course you should take a class if you can. Regardless, go to The Pirate Bay and download the 6gb torrent named "machining". It has a bunch of pretty great ebooks. Also the AGI lathe torrent is pretty fucking good too.

Anonymous Wed Jul 18 23:25:17 2018 No.1428658

>>1428560
>>1428562
I've seen This Old Tony's CNC router/mill, he built it himself so it's more rigid than a normal router, and he uses it on solid aluminium all the time, which as far as I know is significantly easier to machine than brass. Not like he goes very quickly though, and it does flex a little.

If I get serious about building my own CNC I'll see about comparing and contrasting the build styles of CNC mills compared to routers, and hopefully get some insight as to what sort of rigidity and spindle I can aim for. The aim is something I can use to machine aluminium along with softer stuff like wood or foam.

Anonymous Thu Jul 19 06:45:43 2018 No.1428779

>>1428546
There's an optimal chip size for every given tool that depends, among other things, on sharpness of the cutting edge. So slowing feed beyond a certain point will actually make things worse.
And chipping away for half an hour at something that could be done in a single pass on a heavier machine really makes you think.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 19 07:05:34 2018 No.1428787 >>1428779 That's true. Are there abrasion end-mills, akin to the action a surface grinder will do?

Anonymous Thu Jul 19 14:00:57 2018 No.1428921

>>1428787
I guess you could try die grinder bits, but those tend to have terrible runout as they were never meant to be a precision tool. Also grinding makes lots of fine abrasive dust that will quickly find its way into all the bearings and other moving parts, turning lubricant there rather into a buffing compound and cause them to wear out prematurely.
On big machines grinding is normally employed for a precision finishing pass on hardened surfaces, and those machines usually have a dressing attachment that the grinding tool is run through often to keep it within tolerances as it wears out, and special shielding or maintenance procedures on all the moving parts to keep the dust out.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 19 16:07:54 2018 No.1428982 Is it worth going to a community college for learning machining or just learn online?

Anonymous Thu Jul 19 16:18:54 2018 No.1428991

>>1428787

Technically, yes, you can chuck abrasive/grit endmills in a router. Not only will it be abysmally slow, you're liable to have plenty of issues with the bit getting clogged if you're doing aluminum or some other soft material. And that's if you're using coolant; I'd expect it to not really work at all if you weren't.

That's still ignoring the problem of protecting the machine itself from abrasive grit, like >>1428921 mentioned.

Anonymous Thu Jul 19 17:10:37 2018 No.1429029

>>1428982
Neither, as a machinist most of your value to a company comes from your ability to troubleshoot things and work through problems, if it was all nice and easy and things just worked out like they do in class this profession wouldn't pay nearly as well as it does.
What you want to do is try to set up an Apprenticeship with a local shop, get in sweeping floors if you have to and really pick the brains of the people there, if you show that you actually give a shit and work hard most places will have no issue with teaching you things to move up since people like that are rare, if you're going for just some sort of "Operator" CNC button monkey position taking a class would probably be all you need but if your smart enough to be able to work your way through problems the bit of theory that you need to do things should should be easy enough to teach yourself provided you understand trig, on the job experience is really the only thing that goes in this industry.

Anonymous Fri Jul 20 09:13:24 2018 No.1429430

>>1428982
My dad worked in tool and die fixing their metal stamping machines for 30 years before teaching me to use a mill and lathe, basics, safety, and some theory are important to have instruction on.

Man, he was useful to have around the shop. He could do things the quick and dirty way crazy fast.

I think you will get a more well-rounded education with college instruction + online virtual apprenctice stuff + real work experience, either at home or on the job.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 20 10:46:09 2018 No.1429458 File: 159 KB, 844x898, 1525445364089.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Forgive me if this is too off-topic, but what tools/setup would I need to be able to fully dimension physical parts for 3D modeling?

Anonymous Fri Jul 20 11:43:01 2018 No.1429491

>>1429458
Not sure what you mean.

You have a physical part you want to create a 3d model of?

If it isn't ridiculously complicated, you can get pretty quick with fusion 360 sketches. I've only been using it for a week or two with no previous cad/cam experience beyond messing with google sketchup, but I can crank out some 3d models pretty quickly with a pair of calipers and the item in-hand.

Anonymous Fri Jul 20 11:53:00 2018 No.1429499
File: 37 KB, 550x550, Water-End-Blod-Water-Pump-Part-CNC-Machining-Parts.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1429491
I have solidworks, essentially I'm asking what tools/processes I'd need to employ to determine the dimensions of unknown curves/angles of something like pic related for example. Not even sure what this would be called? Reverse-engineering?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 20 11:58:18 2018 No.1429503 >>1429491 Forgot to mention I also do have calipers

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 20 12:06:41 2018 No.1429508 >>1429499 Surface plate, calipers, buttloads of micrometers and various other thingies, telescoping bore gauges, several dial indicators +++ Expect to be a very poor man after setting up that shop

Anonymous Fri Jul 20 12:07:46 2018 No.1429510
File: 383 KB, 1382x778, angle gauge.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1429499
I'm definitely not an expert at that, but here is what I would use (pic related).

For the holes, thread gauges and plug gauges would be the right way to measure.

A depth micrometer and an OD or ID micrometer would be good too.

But I'm sure you know how to use measuring tools, I think there are scanners that will create 3d models of physical parts, don't know how good they are though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 20 12:08:49 2018 No.1429512 >>1429510 Oh, and there are radius gauge sets too, for radiuses/radii. https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Measuring-Inspecting/Radius-Gage-Sets?searchterm=radius+gauge&navid=4287923050

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 20 12:11:11 2018 No.1429514 >>1429510 >plug gauges Sorry, pin gages.

Anonymous Fri Jul 20 20:08:31 2018 No.1429697

>>1429499
It really depends on what sort of accuracy you want and what your trying to measure, at a bare minimum you'd want micrometers that cover up to the largest size you might need to measure, a depth mic set, an inside micrometer set for larger holes, a telescoping gauge set for medium sized holes, and a hole gauge set for smaller ones, radius gauges in whatever's common for your measurement system, thread gauges to put yourself in the ballpark for sizing, inside/outside spring calipers for grooves, and that would work for things that are generally at right angles. If you start throwing in angular and irregular surfaces you might want to get a surface plate with a good vernier protractor and an assortment of dial indicators/stands with some setup/gauge blocks and a sine bar, and then there's special things like a gear tooth caliper if your doing anything with gears or pitch mics/three wire sets for threads, the only real limits are you imagination and wallet.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 20 20:20:46 2018 No.1429702 >>1429508 I mean...he could just get a CMM. That'll only run like 5 figures. hue

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 20 20:42:17 2018 No.1429709 >>1423369 Seconding this, cool dude

Anonymous Fri Jul 20 22:06:30 2018 No.1429738

>>1429499
depends, but honestly just calipers and an understanding of design. a part like that has a few critical dimensions, but using logic and understanding its fit/function, you can determine what should be what size. the curves/angles on that pic appear to be only clearance for the bolts, except for that notch at the top face maybe. most angles you can determine using trigonometry , aka solidworks , to figure out the angles based on other dimensional features

Anonymous Fri Jul 20 23:37:02 2018 No.1429777

>>1423386

With what he's paying in wages and for the machines, a Fusion 360 Ultimate license is nothing. Especially considering the productivity improvements.

The big thing is this. Youve got a mediocre guy who won't learn, and bosses who don't care enough to make him. Low paid guys doing slow mediocre work. Owners compete on price, have to settle for a pittance. So they make up for it with low wages. Vicious cycle.

I'm with Tom Lipton on this one. You learn all you can, encourage your people to learn and improve constantly. Figure out ways to get shit done faster and better by improving technique and process. That gives you quality and turnaround time you can charge for, profits that let you pay your people more (and cultivate better people). Virtuous cycle.

Anonymous Sat Jul 21 03:41:20 2018 No.1429836

>>1429777
I think you meant to reply to me. Giving everyone a copy of that program would do literally nothing to increase productivity. We don't have to make programs from scratch very often most of them are repeat jobs, they're just small part runs of like 50 pieces. Most of the guys in the shop can barely check their email let alone make something that won't slam the head into the table in CAM software.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 05:10:51 2018 No.1429850 >>1426909 Found his channel via This Old Tony. Stefan is pretty hard core.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 05:23:55 2018 No.1429852 >>1428444 Fusion360, because the parametric modeling and timeline make everything very scalable and easy to modify for prototype--> production transition. Also does FEA and other analyses/simulations, and CAM all in one package.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 21 05:51:31 2018 No.1429861 >>1428444 I use sketchup Make 2017, because 2018 is shit and I don't have the hang of Fusion 360 yet. It's like the Python of 3D CAD software.

Anonymous Sun Jul 22 16:43:20 2018 No.1430681

>>1429738
This.

Take critical dimensions into consideration, and break it down into function. One can measure surprisingly well when going over everything and eliminating conflicting dimensions (compromise with the least important ones).

Bolt clearance holes -> not a big deal if you measure a bit off and add some clearance.
O-ring grooves-> measure a couple of times and compare to standards.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 21:32:30 2018 No.1430811 >>1427424 Everything I've read from even Tormach fans says go straight to the 770 or 1100 because the 440 isn't worth it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 22 21:34:54 2018 No.1430813 >>1428511 It's useful if you know some basics of manual machining. Especially if you know tricks like the best machinists' uses for sine bars, parallels, multimeters, and surface plates.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 17:25:05 2018 No.1431317 File: 984 KB, 3000x2250, pendant.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] what type of machine do i need to make things like pic related

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 18:05:32 2018 No.1431343 >>1431317 I'd stamp that, then polish it up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 18:20:36 2018 No.1431346 >>1431317 If you want to mass produce, then stamp like >>1431343 said (minting). But for one or a handful? Maybe turn slices on the lathe and then engrave on a CNC mill/router/engraver. Or engrave by hand (very doable).

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 19:08:00 2018 No.1431356 >>1431346 Not him, but how would you do it by hand? would you use something like a tiny cold chisel and just make a series of impressions? A sharp scraping tool? Or were you referring to a rotary engraver?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 19:10:11 2018 No.1431358 >>1431317 Might get away with just a laser printer actually. Just print and transfer a mask, then etch and polish.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 19:31:50 2018 No.1431378 >>1431358 Toner transfer is for shills, can do it with an inkjet on a sheet of acetate instead.

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 19:31:50 2018 No.1431379
File: 39 KB, 480x447, 1531955830705-pol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>be me
>just started as a CNC field service technician job a month and a half ago
>already flown out to Boston for two weeks and back and have driven all around Texas getting to learn new shit and fix machines
>get to work on new shit every day, varying from 20 year old pieces of shit to the newest work cells that have automated robotic arm feeding systems
>get paid overtime and double time for weekend work, as well as per diem for travel
I fucking love my job

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 19:35:08 2018 No.1431383 >>1429499 Literally just a digital vernier caliper could take care of 99% of those dimensions.

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 20:14:13 2018 No.1431402
File: 500 KB, 1280x720, PHOTO_20180723_153214.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

New to welding, and just made this dice. It's drilled and tapped for the holes, just for style. All the dimensions are little more than eyeballed, so it's got kinda a wonky look, but I think it's cool.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 20:41:50 2018 No.1431408 >>1431402 looks cool af to me bro, gj

Anonymous Mon Jul 23 20:46:59 2018 No.1431409

>>1431378
Whatever works best for you, everyone make do with something they have at hand and/or took a liking to anyways. I went down to 12 mils (0.3 mm) trace/gap width with pretty good and consistent quality making small 2-sided PCBs using just glossy inkjet paper.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 21:07:25 2018 No.1431417 File: 440 KB, 1280x720, PHOTO_20180723_153240.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1431408 Ty

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 21:12:35 2018 No.1431419 >>1431379 >work cells that have automated robotic arm feeding systems Those are great, especially when a clutch fails and the arm punches the door out because it was not in the right position.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 23 21:18:30 2018 No.1431421 >>1431419 >implying the importer engineers don't destroy the cage themselves when they're doing test runs Fucking 12 foot tall robotics arms spazzing out sounds funny, but that shit will you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 00:36:42 2018 No.1431521 >>1431383 >Digital vernier

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 01:18:31 2018 No.1431536 >>1430813 >multimeter

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 01:24:14 2018 No.1431538 >>1431379 Traveling work is not for everyone, enjoy it while you are young

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 07:55:02 2018 No.1431637 When routing shit with my CNC rig, how do I know what the correct spindle speed/plunge step/movement speed is? Is there a handy table or a chart somewhere? Everybody often talks about rpm too but my DeWalt only has a roller that goes from 1 to 5

Anonymous Tue Jul 24 08:28:31 2018 No.1431646

>>1431637
Varies depending on your material and the rigidity of your machine as well as your spindle and bit type. There's a wiki on it that talks about it for lathes, but the general pronciple still the same with live tooling.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speeds_and_feeds

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 16:52:11 2018 No.1431855 I'm looking to buy a good set of Tab & Dies. I don't want the chinesium bullshit that will warp and break in the hole. Preferably metric that can go small like 1mm or 1/16" ~ 1/32" . Any recommendations?

Anonymous Tue Jul 24 20:21:09 2018 No.1431989

>>1431855
Chineseium taps are fine as long as your not doing hundreds of holes and you don't just try to drive the tap in in one go, most issues that people have with taps are that they either use way too large of a wrench and can't feel the tap, or they don't put even pressure on the wrench, either of those things will break your tap in the blink of an eye.

With taps smaller than a #10 (5mm ish) breakage isn't unheard of if your going by hand without an alignment tool in mild steel so if you plan on doing many holes below that size get some spares because you'll likely need them, another key is to get actual tapping lube for the intended material, it does wonders for surface finish and tap life compared to just using whatever oil is around.

Anonymous Tue Jul 24 21:12:32 2018 No.1432015
File: 69 KB, 1302x1041, Screenshot_603.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Idk if anyone cares about g code still, but i had to learn how to write it from scratch for certificate.
I have some stuff like this where every code is explained i could post.

This is setup so it will run on almost every machine. Much of the stuff is redundant, but its least likely to fuck you over in event of a strange interface, or if you start in the middle of the program

I could probably make a mega

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 21:17:58 2018 No.1432018 >>1432015 Think of each new tool as its own section if it looks complicated

Anonymous Tue Jul 24 21:23:46 2018 No.1432021
File: 47 KB, 1411x938, Screenshot_604.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1432018
For example heres a rough and finish turn,

The G71 rough takes a tool path and adds a certain amount to the x and z to leave on for finishing
The finish cycle basically read the lines reference in the P and Q codes (N05 and N50) and repeats it to size

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 21:24:22 2018 No.1432023 >>1431637 Something like G wizard for routers, I'm guessing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 21:25:24 2018 No.1432024 >>1431855 >metric Well I would say greenfield/chicago latrobe/OSG but who knows for Metric folks.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 21:27:23 2018 No.1432025 >>1431989 Not the guy you're talking to, but I can handily recommend tap magic. https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/00262253

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 21:42:05 2018 No.1432029 >>1428444 Just find a university that's stupid enough to put their free student download code somewhere on their website and use that to get the academic version.

Anonymous Tue Jul 24 22:00:42 2018 No.1432038
File: 68 KB, 585x428, Machine_Shop_Math_Formula.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1431637
In metal? You need to know the surface feet of the material youre cutting.
the formula is:

RPM = (SFM X 3.82)/DIA , diameter in inches

This works for either material turning (lathe) or tool turning (mill)
For a less stable machine, dont be afraid to go slower that this, like 3/4-half speed esp on mill.

For plunge you use chipload:

>IPR (inches per rev) = FPT (Feed per tooth per rev) * # Teeth or flutes

If the place you bought the drill recommends .015 chipload, you know your rpm using the first formula, and you know how many flutes you have (2 for a drill maybe more for an endmill) you can plug that into the formula and figure out your IPR (inches per Minute)

>IPM (inches per minute) = IPR (Inches per rev) x RPM =

You can use a chart like this to find IPR directly for your drills
http://www.morsecuttingtools.com/Technical%20Data/HSS%20&%20Cobalt%20Drill%20Speed_Feed.pdf
If you literally have no idea give the people that made your drill a call, theyll help

If you dont know your rpm, you should buy a lazer tachometer and at least get a rough idea, or youre going to have a bad time. As you can tell from the first formula, bigger = slower

Buy a Machinist handbook

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 22:08:39 2018 No.1432040 >>1432038 Feeds and speeds should be the first thing you learn if you want to get into this

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 24 23:05:02 2018 No.1432058 >>1431855 Buy HSS taps and dies, brands are less important than the steel.

Anonymous Wed Jul 25 00:15:20 2018 No.1432079
File: 124 KB, 400x271, 1864664-11-1406369391709-n400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1429029
>as a machinist
> if you show that you actually give a shit and work hard
> people like that are rare,

Just to be sure, peoples usually don't do that?
So most peoples are lazy?
Thanks a lot for your opinion. I got surprised when I met lazy peoples at my former jobs, are people really that bad?

I made a leader choke by his own incompetance and lazyness.
Maybe a bad skill to have at workplace? ;)

I may not work fulltime as a machinist, but are interesting in CNC because it enables me to create things, which creates work for me.

Anonymous Wed Jul 25 00:32:18 2018 No.1432085

>>1429458
>physical parts for 3D modeling

It depends on the material and your options.
- Metal or plastic?
- accurancy / precision of the object?
- size of the object? if's large, it'll be expensive.
- surface finish, what are your requirment.
- your knowledge, interest and learning time.
- Nothing are impossible.

A way is to 3d print this and cast this in metal, if you really want it to be metal. Sometimes it's better to choose away the CNC machine.

A CNC machine has limitations. Know them intimately, way more than your genitals!

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 25 01:58:24 2018 No.1432113 >>1427383 Freedom, God bless it

Anonymous Wed Jul 25 02:59:52 2018 No.1432133

>>1432038
Fuck man, this is way more complex than I envisioned. Also I'm an eurofag so no inches for me.
My router is a "OpenBuilds C-Beam CNC plate maker" and I really only work with woods to be honest.

Any tips on securing my stock to the plate, by the way?

Anonymous Wed Jul 25 04:21:19 2018 No.1432153

>>1432133
>Fuck man, this is way more complex than I envisioned. Also I'm an eurofag so no inches for me.

Don't give up, eurofag, your brain needs some persuation. This is actually extremely important, if your router are too fast you have to go slower/shallower to avoid breakage.
It's easier than you think. sometimes it's gets ugly under inch2metric conversion.
1 inch = 2.54cm. I am eurofag too.

Fuck you inchfags, learn to count real numbers.
only two countries have inch, and both are in war.

Anonymous Wed Jul 25 04:43:45 2018 No.1432159

>>1432133
Use radians, angular speed, metres, seconds, all that SI lot and there are no constants except 2π. w=v/r is pretty much all you need to know, and w = 2πf (in Hz). r is radius in metres, v is speed in m/s, w is actually a lower case omega measured in radians/second, you get the gist.

Note that nobody does this because metres aren't a good unit for feed rates, but neither are minutes so who gives a fuck.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 25 04:44:19 2018 No.1432160 >>1432159 That is to say, the frequency f is measured in hz.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 25 05:16:19 2018 No.1432173 >>1432159 >>1432153 Whats the best resource to learn gcode? I know some basics but ideally I'd just want to model 3D in another software and just export an STL so whatever.exe would make me toolpaths

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 25 05:19:04 2018 No.1432177 >>1432173 I'm just here to shill SI units, don't ask me.

Anonymous Wed Jul 25 06:09:31 2018 No.1432189
File: 108 KB, 386x411, 24260393.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Complete CNC rookie here. Used a Carvey for some (light) cutting in 4mm plywood. Used a 1/32" 2F bit, bit broke 80% into the job, even though Carvey/Easel holds your hand and recommends feed-rate/plunge-rate etc. based on the material and bit chosen.

Did I fuck up (probably) or is it just one of those "shit happens" kind of things? I'm guessing there's a reason 1/32" and 1/16" bits are sold in packs of ten on their website.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 25 07:31:30 2018 No.1432214 >>1432189 Shit happens, slow down the feed or lower doc

Anonymous Wed Jul 25 20:46:37 2018 No.1432602
File: 215 KB, 479x404, 1513232070996.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1432177
>shill SI units

Fucking communist metricfags and your damm wrench sizes, I'd swear pretty much every machine in the shop uses Imperial sizing except for those few things here and there that are metric and of those 90% of them are stripped out, inches were good enough to go to the moon, they should be good enough for you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 25 21:01:35 2018 No.1432611 File: 19 KB, 703x911, 1518267030097.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1432153

Anonymous Wed Jul 25 22:25:36 2018 No.1432653

>>1432602
He's in Europe, most if not all of everything he's dealing with will be in metric in the first place. Forcing an obsolete unit standard on people is fine if it's a useful standard to learn, but not in Europe. Also metric allens are impossible to strip by using the wrong size because their size graduations are such that one size too small will simply rotate freely.

Also the Mars Climate Orbiter.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 25 22:30:04 2018 No.1432659 >>1432189 1/32 is tiny, not surprised it broke. If possible I would step up to a 1/4" or bigger. CNC milling breaks tiny tools all the time. Then again, you're only using it in wood.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 00:46:10 2018 No.1432708 >>1432659 Is it common for CNC machines to have sensors to detect vibration/chatter? It would be a pretty good feature to trigger slower milling, or even a complete stop.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 01:07:57 2018 No.1432723 >>1432708 Nigga you new to this shit

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 01:16:19 2018 No.1432726 >>1432723 yes

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 01:21:31 2018 No.1432732 >>1432726 It isn't a feature, you want to be pushing tooling to the limit at times so to have a auto slow down feature would be shitty.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 01:22:51 2018 No.1432733 >>1432732 But if the chatter is due to the vice or tooling chuck coming loose/not being properly tight then stopping the thing would certainly be a good thing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 01:25:29 2018 No.1432734 >>1432733 That's why you have a operator, shit like that doesn't happen if you cover your bases. Hell that really falls under accountability of the person who fucked up that bad.

Anonymous Thu Jul 26 04:43:14 2018 No.1432805
File: 2.14 MB, 1294x853, dg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

$20, at a little consignment shop where I go once every week or two. Guy has a booth with old crappy tools. Sometimes ill buy something like a vintage C clamp or adjustable wrench, but this was the first really tool thing ive found there.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 04:44:17 2018 No.1432806 File: 1.63 MB, 1286x694, dg2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1432805 1-6 inch depth rods

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 16:01:49 2018 No.1433039 >>1432732 >>1432733 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pSdhn2pq5w

Anonymous Thu Jul 26 16:37:59 2018 No.1433063

>>1432732
>>1432733
It's entirely possible that the guy could be talking about some sort of automatic variable spindle speed control which might actually have a use, more frequently than not chatter is just a function of hitting some sort of harmonic resonance with your setup, VSS just moves the spindle speed around by say 10% of a baseline to prevent harmonic oscillations from building, if your running the machine fast and hard it's a godsend for long or wide parts.

>>1433039
Those are just "Dampened" tools, they're great if you've got to do things that require a really long overhang like deep pockets or bores, but if your getting chatter with conventional shorter tooling it's not the type of chatter that they can really help with.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 19:39:40 2018 No.1433175 >>1432734 >doesn't happen Stopped reading there. In real world shit does happen and firing the guy who fucked up won't fix the broken machine or ruined part or someone who caught a flying piece of steel with their face.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 26 20:04:37 2018 No.1433188 >>1432708 There are load meters. I don't know why everyone is so salty about providing an answer. It wouldn't typically save a tool, especially one like that. It wouldn't even feel that thing break.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 27 00:47:11 2018 No.1433313 >>1432732 Yeah and autodetecting that limit and stopping just short of it lets you program more aggressively. I'm actually wondering if you could use a transducer and active noise cancellation to cut down on tool chatter.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 27 00:56:36 2018 No.1433319 >>1433313 AvE actually brought this up a couple months ago and everyone reminded him he wasn't a machinist because lots of cnc machines do this

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 27 01:18:19 2018 No.1433326 >>1423008 >made in Israel >decent country

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 27 01:26:04 2018 No.1433328 >>1433326 Ahaha I get it, it's a /pol/ joke on /diy/! Kill the Jews!

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 27 10:13:12 2018 No.1433468 >>1433328 My mom told me not to go on 4chan because it's filled with Nazis. But I'm a grown up almost and can do what the fuckass I want. I have taken the red pill and fit in fine

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 27 10:14:15 2018 No.1433469 >>1432805 That's a good find. I really need to do more shops like that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 28 03:03:40 2018 No.1434017 >>1433326 israeli tools are alright, it's just the ones in the american government that suck. oh, and hollywood, the universities, etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 28 06:33:50 2018 No.1434063 I'm studying machining at the moment. what skills should I develop? they tell my I should understand blueprints as the abc. any other suggestion?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 28 06:44:03 2018 No.1434065 >>1422786 A folding bicycle with a camming lock, something full size.

Anonymous Sat Jul 28 07:46:49 2018 No.1434080

>>1428546
Openbuilds OX accepts a router spindle specifically and it can handle aluminum, though I wouldn't expect professional quality finish out of it considering the responses in this thread. They also have other designs that may or may not be better suited to it. It's something I'm considering. It's also fully open source and can be modified to improve performance or cutting capacity. You can even throw a laser system on it.

Build:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy8HvHC8-1c

Cutting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOgJfRgVj7o

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 28 08:25:17 2018 No.1434091 >>1434080 That's not terribly rigid-looking compared to what I was thinking of building, but since it's got barely any Z travel I suppose it doesn't need too many extra supports. Good to know in either case.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 28 11:01:03 2018 No.1434134 >>1434063 Technical prints with ABC datums?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 28 11:14:11 2018 No.1434141 >>1434134 No, I mean I have to understand prints very well.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 28 13:11:08 2018 No.1434189 >>1432708 its called an operators ears and eyes. Sometimes you need to push the tool harder if its taking to thin of a cut and its chattering.

Anonymous Sat Jul 28 14:07:30 2018 No.1434201
File: 96 KB, 430x430, STEEL-BLUE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1434063
Hand skills
>Grinding - making lathe bits out of blanks, sharpening drills, etc
>Filing - making consistent and completely deburred edges
>Traditional layouts with a scriber and some dykem for use on milling machines and especially drill presses
>Measuring components with Mics/Calipers accurately. Knowing when they are accurate and how to properly calibrate them.
>Manual machining on a Bridgeport/vert mill with a threaded drawbar and .000-.199 dials
>Tapping by hand with clamps and a tap block

Blueprints
>Know the basic symbols for countersinks, counterbores, drill depth/THRU, tapping
>Know coordination. Does the print have your "zero" at an edge? Is it from center?
>Learn GD&T. Revisit it, slowly digest it. It is a weird language with a lot of specifics. The more machining you do, the more it makes sense. They work like building blocks. Primary Datums are the basis and reference point for every other datum.
>Machine simple projects as specified on blueprints. Ensure they are within their needed tolerances.
>Pay attention to every single detail on the print. Every single one. If the print wants you to drill a .500 hole +.001/-.000, don't just go in there with a 1/2" drill. Go down a 1/64 at the very least and ream it at a low speed or your part will be out of tolerance and worthless.

When you are getting ready to machine something off a print, you should get in the habit of premeditating your steps from cutting stock with a bandsaw to indicating your workholding fixture (vise, block, etc) to squaring up the block and tooling priority in an orderly fashion.

This all parlays well into CNC Machining and Programming. Take as much manual training as you can.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 29 17:42:57 2018 No.1434978 >>1422723 B U M P

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:05:59 2018 No.1435327 Wrote my first piece of G code yesterday and I'm gonna route that shit today, I'm super fucking nervous but we'll see how it goes.

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:12:27 2018 No.1435328

how the fuck do i learn Fusion 360?
Maybe I'm just a brainlet but there's just so much shit going on all the time everywhere I don't even know where to start. I'm ready to pirate a Lynda course or some shit as long as it holds my hand and tells me how to model something and generate toolpaths for it

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:30:02 2018 No.1435333
File: 1.30 MB, 1227x6000, fusion 360 instructions.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1435328
start by making a "sketch" it's like a 2d blueprint drawing you dimension out, then use the push/pull command to turn it into a 3d object.

in like google sketchup you start with 3d shapes I think, but fusion 360 modeling you start with a 2d sketch.

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:31:49 2018 No.1435334

>>1435333
its light on annotation because some faggots are asking me to play a video game with them

but you can figure it out from there, and if you want complicated stuff you can create offset planes, like perpendicular planes and planes at angles to sketch other features and then extrude them into 3d objects or holes in the part.

complicated organic shapes are done via the other workspaces, and CAM is done in the CAM workspace. You have to add tools to the library in the CAM workspace.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:37:44 2018 No.1435340 >>1435333 >>1435334 Wow, thanks so much. At least now I know where to actually begin. Gonna try and model something today. Also nice trips.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:40:53 2018 No.1435342 >>1435340 oh and you can sketch directly on top of the 3d objects too once you have them to work with

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:46:14 2018 No.1435344 File: 74 KB, 246x236, 1478199830525.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1435333 kek must be with the OC

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:48:30 2018 No.1435345

>>1435328
>I'm ready to pirate a Lynda course or some shit as long as it holds my hand and tells me how to model something and generate toolpaths for it

Dude, Fusion 360 has an in depth tutorial for beginners with premade models with play with and everything.
Starting at the basics of how to save and open a file.

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:55:40 2018 No.1435348

>>1435345
next thing he'll probably run into is importing Autodesk files, same company that makes Fusion 360 but they don't keep the code to convert from one file type to Fusion 360 files on the clients.

Gotta upload the autodesk inventor or whatever file to the Fusion cloud and it returns the file in a Fusion 360 format. Other file types like STL will directly import.

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:57:04 2018 No.1435349

Im the guy from a few threads back who walked into a custom carbide tooling maker/resharpening shop and asked for an interview. He said they didnt have work but was looking for someone new and would call me back in a month or two.

Like a week ago I went in and had a formal interview.
Well im going in tomorrow for a 3rd and final interview for "assessments, rough potential schedule and to talk about what they expect from their employees".

So im hoping thats non committal speak for "come in and show us you arent a complete retard and we will offer you a job".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 01:59:04 2018 No.1435350 >>1434201 remember kids, if your calipers don't return to zero, wipe the blades off and try closing them again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 02:03:21 2018 No.1435351 >>1435349 Sounds good, I bet they have some cool grinders to play with, and lathes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYKm9fzA1D8

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 02:57:31 2018 No.1435377

>>1433326
I mean, they manufacture some high end firearms (usually a good sign, same with cars. USA is the exception it seems...), and they don't have the swathes of land (and ultra cheap labor) to throw at mass producing junk. Much as I don't like the country, I think they've got a reputable manufacturing industry.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 04:10:39 2018 No.1435394 >>1435350 Or get better calipers? :(

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 04:11:20 2018 No.1435395 >>1435394 Calipers that don't get dirty? What wizardry would that be?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 04:13:38 2018 No.1435396 >>1435395 I was just thinking of my first set of digital verniers, they were cheap. They had issues keeping zero.

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 17:45:23 2018 No.1435648

I drilled a hole with a feed rate of "150" straight through a piece of wood, maybe an inch thick.
Realised my mistake too late, and whoosh – saw blue flames and some black smoke came out from the router but nothing besides that. I let it cool for a bit and now everything works exactly as it did earlier.
Is this a thing routers just do under heavy pressure or should I worry something's gonna explode soon?
The router is a DeWalt 611.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 17:54:36 2018 No.1435655 >>1435648 might have been a belt? something like Gwizard for routers would be neat, maybe it works for routers even I don't know.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 17:55:39 2018 No.1435658 >>1435648 150 IPM ? whew!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 18:05:12 2018 No.1435668 File: 18 KB, 329x256, 1524873908665.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1435396 >digital >verniers

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 18:10:37 2018 No.1435672

>>1435648
150 what though? IPM,TPR,RPM and what size hole were you drilling?

>>1435668
It's fairly common at large shops that have been around long enough to have used Vernier calipers at some point, where I work everybody just calls any six inch caliper a "Vernier" regardless of if it's an dial or digital caliper, it's somewhat maddening having come from outside.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 30 21:35:59 2018 No.1435820 >>1435648 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6jD2H4Dyo diy plasmacam to router mod

Anonymous Mon Jul 30 22:34:17 2018 No.1435866

>>1423238
1423208 was talking about the conversational modes some machines have, where they use their own canned shortcuts.

Like the old Romi-Bridgeport Powerpath lathes. At the root it was still Gcode, but at the terminal on the machine itself, it was something else.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 31 01:09:42 2018 No.1435958 >>1435866 so the Gcode interpreter accepts more commands

Anonymous Tue Jul 31 01:48:16 2018 No.1435978

>>1435658
lmao probably not. Universal G-Code sender never displays units, but I'm a europoor so I'm pretty confident they were millimeters.

>>1435655
googled a bit and that might be it yeah

>>1435672
>150 what
I'm guessing 150 mm per minute. 1/4" bit. RPM was at setting "1" so ~16,000 RPM

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 31 01:52:59 2018 No.1435982 >>1435978 16k RPM for a drilling operation? try 619 rpm, 1.125 IPM for a 3/4" deep hole and a 1/4" HSS drill

Anonymous Tue Jul 31 01:55:02 2018 No.1435983

>>1435982
oh wait, it's in wood...

That was for tool steel at 50% aggressiveness.

Anyway, yeah for wood it's like max RPM max IPM with my machine profile. I bet using the free month trial of Gwizard would help you a lot with speeds and feeds even for a router.

Anonymous Tue Jul 31 13:46:55 2018 No.1436198

>>1428511
>>1428511
Manual machining is a huge part if it in my opinion. You've got to know the basics and know them fairly well if you are going to be a successful cnc machinist. In my experience, a guy who ran a manual mill for 1 year and then learns CNC was way better at the CNC than someone who came out of a technical college with a CNC certificate and more hours on a CNC mill.

Anonymous Tue Jul 31 17:18:18 2018 No.1436268
File: 64 KB, 518x571, C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_1529338365234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Kinda dumb layman question here : Would it be viable to make a engine crankcase by machining two or more concave bits on a mill and then soldering them ?

Anonymous Tue Jul 31 18:56:42 2018 No.1436299

>>1436268
Thats not really a machining question. But sure people have repaired broken blocks with brazing and JB weld.
Depending on the application, I dont see why you couldnt fasten two sides together.

I just doubt youd match them up together to a high enough tolerance for it to ever work well

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 31 19:26:38 2018 No.1436317 >>1422723 Anyone actually have one of those two-piece vises? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UGY8iJH_aY

Anonymous Tue Jul 31 19:40:56 2018 No.1436324
File: 225 KB, 1416x682, cnmg tool holder.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

In other news, the aluminum company I ordered the stock I'm waiting on from is moving locations and now shipment is delayed 5 to 7 days.

So I guess I have some time to dick around, what should I work on?
Been eyeing this CNMG tool holder model I found on grabcad, but it is very heavily negatively angled for high-horsepower machines, and I already have a CNMG tool holder for my large lathe.

The tool steel blank to make it would be $50 to $100, but some cold rolled 4140 would be strong enough to not fuck up for a while.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 31 19:43:22 2018 No.1436325 File: 77 KB, 811x831, cnmg tool holder2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1436324

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 1 00:54:11 2018 No.1436449 >>1436324 4140 is plenty strong for it to last forever

Anonymous Wed Aug 1 06:37:46 2018 No.1436533
File: 65 KB, 600x376, FRObser.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What should i get if i want to make some basic repeated shapes and cuts of reasonably thin metal in a timely manner that i can churn out accurate multiples each hour?

Im looking at cncs but i get the impression it would be beyond my budget when I dont really need to be super intricate.
Is there some kind of routing, bending, angled cutting combo out there for under a $1000 and with no nasty surprise costs?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 1 06:52:23 2018 No.1436543 >>1436533 plasma cam? laser? waterjet? router?

Anonymous Wed Aug 1 14:30:16 2018 No.1436717
File: 90 KB, 640x545, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I would like to get into machining. For starters i would like to be able to make simple rough stands for my other tools.

How does one get into machining?

Is there any information available about the most common mistakes a noobie can make that might end up killing the said noobie?

I dont know or cant find anyone around my area to teach or help me. This is a big downer so i would like to start by studying and using relatively simple tools.

I have a press drill that i use for wood working. How can i determine if i can use it for metal working?

What is the safest material to start with?

Any tips and safety tips are very welcome.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 1 14:32:09 2018 No.1436720 >>1436717 just returning here I forgot to thank >>1434201 for giving good pointers!

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 1 16:16:05 2018 No.1436804 >>1436317 no, wouldn't work for precision parts. also at that point strap clamps would be easier and cheaper.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 1 20:14:59 2018 No.1436952 >>1436533 Hydraulic press?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 1 21:05:31 2018 No.1436981 >>1436717 that guy looks how i feel

Anonymous Wed Aug 1 21:38:15 2018 No.1436999

>>1436717
This Old Tony, mrpete, stefan gotteswinter, abom79, nyccnc, edge precision, robrenz, steve summers, oxtoolco, clough42. If you are interested in what not to do, or to try and solve the problems that he had with his lathe, you can watch "rather b welding" make his lathe. "Homemade lathe machine" is making quite the ensemble of machines at home. I got into machining by buying non-running machines, figuring out how to fix them, fix them, and sell them for a profit. I now own and operate my own machine shop. It is likely that you can use your drill press for metal working, I would get a bench grinder, and work on putting holes through various thicknesses of varying metals, while resharpening your drill bits to start getting a hang of clearances and cutting geometries.

Anonymous Wed Aug 1 22:03:10 2018 No.1437009

>>1436449
well some good luck finally, midwest steel and aluminum hired a private carrier to deliver the aluminum.

Fantastic service, some black kid (probably from Northern IL) hopped out of a delivery truck and dropped it off.

They have the best prices for small orders of aluminum I've found online too. Perhaps we need a metal supplier thread.

Anonymous Wed Aug 1 22:15:11 2018 No.1437014

>>1436717
Are there any trade schools or community colleges in your area with machining programs? This path is one of the best ways to get in. Certain schools are frequented by shops both small and large. They look for talent there. They may send some of their talent there for further training.

It is not an easy trade to get into, but you will get into it if you persist. Beware the skilled machinist dilemma, wherein no one wants to make a skilled machinist but everyone needs one yesterday. For every 50 job listings for an 8+ year experience journeyman toolmaker, there might be 1 apprenticeship and its probably like 150 miles away.

Smaller shops may be more flexible in training from the ground up. They may have open positions exclusively on their company website. It would not hurt to stop by a small shop, say that you are interested in machining at the very least and want to know if they could recommend the school they think is best

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 1 22:27:54 2018 No.1437021 >>1436198 It's knowing the tooling. Had way too many people who had only programmed and never made chips, give me feeds and speeds that were ridiculous. Like "The machine will not feed that fast" kind of ridiculous.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 1 22:27:59 2018 No.1437022 >>1437009 Lucky for you, I have to drive 3 hours to get anything that isn't mild steel or mid carbon steel on the cheap.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 2 01:11:03 2018 No.1437067 >>1437021 I struggled with this at the beginning, but after having to replace a spindle in 2 years I take it quite slower now. I normally keep my mrr under 13

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 2 03:44:35 2018 No.1437109 >>1436543 >>1436952 So far it seems like i need small variants of a table router , metal brake and band saw.

Anonymous Thu Aug 2 12:41:55 2018 No.1437307

After owning a Tormach for a couple months I have some advice for new owners.

When you get the machine, do the lost motion gib adjustment procedure on all axes so you know the gibs are both tight and where they need to be. Y axis gib screw was loose when I took off the cover to do it just now.

Just almost loose enough to have the gib sliding back and forth a meaningful amount. Might have came loose from some vibration I caused milling into a hardened vise jaw.

Buy some soft jaws too, they will save your end mills.

Anonymous Thu Aug 2 15:09:56 2018 No.1437363

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTs6bOEgMtg

Anyone run flood coolant machines? What do they put under the vise to keep the table and vise from rusting?

LPS-3 isn't doing the job good enough. LPS-3 sprays on as a liquid then dries to a very light-weight grease, but it gets washed away by the coolant.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 2 15:15:10 2018 No.1437367 File: 83 KB, 414x1232, boeshield t-9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Considering trying Boeshield T-9 because it claims to be waterproof.

Anonymous Thu Aug 2 16:55:16 2018 No.1437412

>>1437363
It's just going to happen with any machine that has flood coolant, but it will be significantly worse if your running a more diluted coolant, the best thing you can do is to use an air hose to blow everything off if your going to leave it for any amount of time, small puddles of coolant are going to contribute to the worst of the rusting and when the water evaporates off it'll leave a sticky mess.

If your worried about it affecting accuracy just lightly stone the surfaces of the table and vice with a fine stone periodically to make sure it's perfectly clean, if you want to be really anal about it you could buy three stones and then periodically rub them together to make sure they stay flat but at the level of precision you see with most mills you'd probably be fine without doing that.

Anonymous Fri Aug 3 23:59:53 2018 No.1438263

>>1435351
>>1435351
Just got the job!
As im training, im just going to be using a handful of Cincinnati no 2 tool grinders to sharpen HSS drills and end mills, and run a large laser engraver to badge the new carbide tools they make.
Ill then move onto some CNCs and manufacture carbide bits later down the line.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 4 01:13:12 2018 No.1438287 >>1438263 Congratulations anon The next hardship is sticking it out through some potentially tedious work and bullshit til you come along enough Hold out through the shitty times and you will get good, at least if you want to get good.

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/diy/ - Do It Yourself