/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>818161
>I know I should have a good 10 gauge, but them shits are expensive!

so borrow one and see.

>>818163
the cord has nothing to do with the motor getting hot, that doesn't make any sense..? if the cord can't support the draw from the motor that means it can't supply the electrical current needed. why would that make the motor hot enough to cook bacon?

>>818161
>its an induction motor too, no bushings
I guess you meant brushes
The start circuit may not be 'kicking out' after spin-up.
The start winding draws a lot of current and is designed for connection to line voltage momentarily.
Having it connected continuously will cause overheating quickly.
Some saws have an external relay for start circuit.
Some have contacts inside the motor.
The contacts 'could' be 'welded' from too many starts or:
>I just replaced the bearings in the damn thing
You could have fvcked it up when changing the bearings.
(bent the contacts, etc)

>>818169
No no, it was doing this before the bearing replacement.

is the contact thing you're talking about the little springy thing on the motorshaft and the little copper spring clicky thing on the main board? this thing is 50 years old, I forgot to mention that..

>>818173
>little springy thing on the motorshaft and the little copper spring clicky thing on the main board?
Yes.
It's a centrifugal switch.
When at rest the contacts are closed.
(connecting the start winding)
Once the motor starts spinning and reaches a certain speed, the contacts open.
(disconnecting the start winding)
If the mechanical parts fail in a certain way it could stay in start mode.
If the contacts are 'stuck' together from too many starts, it could stay in start mode.
You should be able to hear the click when the motor spins down.
It clicks on start up too but is sometimes drowned out by motor noise.
Do some checking to make sure the contacts are able to break the circuit and the springs and weights are in place.

>>818180
also:
Google: electric motor centrifugal start switch repair
Click on Images
see pics of what to do...

>>818180
yeah I never noticed a click back before. and I've turned it on an off enough to know all the sounds its making..

betcha you're onto something and that's most likely what it is. I would of never thought of that. clearly. as I asked. lol

Funny though, I noticed a lot of fouling on the little copper spring and its button halve. and I used a little needle file to get fresh bare metal. I've repaired those things before, not in motors, but most motorcycle front handlebar brake light switch uses those clicky things. when they foul they can stop working, if they are too pitted, you can use a quality soldering iron to melt some hard solder over the two halves. and file them flush again.

Fixing centrifugal switches is a pain in the ass. Not hard, but fiddly. Open the motor, tweak the contacts on the switch, close the motor, test it, repeat. I had to do this on a GE 'explosion proof' motor once and it drove me out of my mind. The end bells were held on with 4 long bolts went from one end bell to the other and had to be undone and pulled out completely before you could get the end bell off to access the switch. The bearings that guided the rotor were in the end bells and if you didn't get it back together just so the shaft wouldn't spin. So it was like 10 minutes of tweaking every time you had to open the fucking thing. The hole reason I was fucking with the bastard was the starting cap had popped. Since it was inside the housing, not just attached to the outside, it got juice all over the centrifugal switch and fucked it up. Ugh.

>>818203
yeah my motor is kinda set up like you described. 4 long bolts with nuts on the ends. the whole thing needs to come apart in order to get to the board or the little contact thing.

So how did you fix it? just adjust the copper thing, and clean the spring part real good?

>>818203
>The bearings that guided the rotor were in the end bells and if you didn't get it back together just so the shaft wouldn't spin
Once it's reassembled, whack the shaft with a leather or brass mallet.
Do this again with the motor running.
(I actually have a dead-blow hammer that's my bearing alignment tool)

>>818207
I know that trick. Doesn't work on explosion proof motors. At least not my GE. They are sealed so that outside air can't get into the motor where their might be sparks. Very useful in environments where there might be explosive gas around, not that I need it. Anyway, the end bells aren't just held in by the bolts, they are a snug fit. Kind of like old metal Quaker Oats tins. Real pain in the ass to get off even with the bolts out. If it was a standard motor it wouldn't be half as hard as with these sealed fuckers. Anyway, I got the fucker for free and fixing it cost like $35 in parts and thats not a bad price for a 1/3 HP motor.

>>818223

how does on adjust the silly copper spring switch, I've tried googling it. im not coming up with anything.

>>818233
>how does on adjust the silly copper spring switch
You don't adjust it until you've determined it's out of adjustment.
>are the contacts stuck?
>do the mechanical parts move freely?
>are any parts disconnected or missing?
Find out what's wrong before you try to 'adjust' it.

>>818233
Mine was easy to fix. I cleaned the contacts and made sure it had contact when switched one way and no contact when it was switched the other. Mine was rather beefy so it was clear when it was switched on and off. While its switched by the shaft rotating at a certain speed you can move it my hand.

>>818161
Why pick on Roy Underhill? His table saw doesn't have this problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb-_KOf4INk

>>818236
Holy shit quit repeating yourself. Clearly the op has already determined that its the switch. Get your head out of your ass and read the whole thread next time!

>>818161
Most electrical circuits are only designed for 80% of their noted load. This is to account for breaker manufacturing tolerances as well as general homeowner shenanigans.

Breakers also have multiple modes of tripping. One is instant fail where the OC device breaks the circuit immediately through a magnetic device. The second one is THERMAL FAILURE in which high current for long periods of time trips the circuit in order to protect conductors, which are likely also heating up and possibly roasting insulation. Look up "fuse curves" for more information.

To go about solving your problem, try a 20A circuit. These are typically good for loads up around 16A. That's still a bit close, so try a 30A breaker if the problem persists. After that, it's probably in your saw.

Good luck

>>818404
I have a single 20A breaker for my garage and I've learned that it doesn't like me. That and there's only 2 outlets so I have a shit ton of extension cords and power bars. One night I decided to vacuum up the floor while running a small space heater. Nope. Tripped breaker and burned out extension cord. Next was having shop vac hooked up to table saw for dust extraction. Vacuum fired up, work piece loaded, turn on saw ... Nope. Tripped breaker. Who the fuck thought a single 20A was sufficient for a garage?

>>818407
My garage breaker is 15 amp. GFI. I don't have acess to a 20 amp breaker... I really want a 220 volt 50 amp installed but holy shit are sparkys expensive!!! To run 6 feet of line they want 800$?!!!

-the op.

>>818407
Probably the kids of the people that design my house. Those fuckers didn't put any outlets out there at all and only a single 60 watt light. By thats standard it was an improvement.

>>818407
wait you tripped a 20A breaker with what like 3kW? at what 110v or something?
no shit sherlock.

>>818165

If a cable is getting hot that mean's there is more resistance along the cable thereby the motor pulling more power. There is a reason why different sized cables are used the cable will pull as much power until it starts to break....hence the breaker tripping that is a breakers job.

>>818369
>Clearly the op has already determined that its the switch.
Did he? I didn't see his reply with exactly what was wrong with the switch.
>Get your head out of your ass and read the whole thread next time!
>>818169 me
>>818180 me
>>818183 me
>>818207 me
>>818236 me
I've kinda been here since the beginning.
Before I told him what was likely to be wrong they were going with bad breakers and too small extension cords.

>bad bait but 3/10 because I responded.

So after opening up the motor and dicking with it. I found a mystery yellow wire connected to the winds but not connected onto anything elsr. There was one visible spot where it looked like the only place the wire could of gone too. So I reattached it. Still runs the same and by looking into the vent holes I can see the switch and spring loaded thing. The spring loaded thing isn't opening up. And I've cleaned it as good as I could. So either the springs have gotten tighter over time. Or the motor isn't getting up too RPM...

Any help anyone?

-faggot op.

>>818446
Open the motor and move the arm the springs are attached to.
Some actually slide a weight along the shaft.
If the slide is stuck on the shaft it won't move when the weights push against it.

tldr; make sure the switch is able to move freely

>>818450
>slide a weight along the shaft.
*slide a collar along the shaft

>>818446
Do >>818183
and post a pic of what your switch looks like

>>818455

here's the motor and its insides.

>>818444
The breakers job is to avoid burning up wiring in the walls. It doesnt give a fuck about what cheap ass extension cord you have. Also he said the motor overloads are tripping, again all the overloads care about is motor temp, not your cheap ass extension cord.

>>818473
Well I got a cord rated for 15 amp now. So we can take the cord out of the things that are wrong.

>>818461
text on image

>>818489
That black thing slides pretty easy as is. It actually has some play. Ill polish the shaft but it will be hard because the whole thing is press fit on there so I can only get to the parts with sand paper.

Its almost like its not spinning fast enough or there's something missing in those weights. Like additional weights?? Idk if they would do that.

>>818497
The weights look correct.
When at rest the black collar presses against the copper arm closing the contacts.
When the weights fold out like you're doing with your thumb the black collar slides away from the copper arm and the contacts open.
The contacts should be open now (disassembled state).
Can you see that they are not touching?

>>818497
>it will be hard because the whole thing is press fit on
If it moves freely it's probably OK
You can remove all parts but the pressed on piece by taking the springs off and folding the weights so they slide out through the slots.
The collar will then come off and you can clean and polish the shaft easily.

>>818505
>>818502
Okay I just finished polishing the shaft and went to try something. I didn't reinstall the springs and started the motor. The weights stayed open and it ran fine. But also my breaker (at the wall) tripped still after 30 seconds.

The motor is under no load. I believe the max watts (700watts or so = 1hp and it's a 1 hp motor) the motorisstill getting hot.. so here's where I'm at. Either the motors coils are fucked up and I just can't see them past the epoxy binder. Or my wall socket isn't putting out for what its rated too and the voltage isn't getting high enough to spin the motor at the rpm its suppose to to open the switch. And that's why the breaker is going off during start ups. Or its something else fucked with the motor causing a short. Either way I'm about to take a littl 30cc weed eater motor and spin the saw with it.. I can use my shitty wall outlet for running a psu fan to keep it cool... If I can even handle that.

>>818513
You didn't respond to this question
>>818502
>The contacts should be open now (disassembled state).
>Can you see that they are not touching?

>>818161
if the breaker is getting that hot then it is going bad or is bad. replace it, its no hard to do. Mine was doing the same thing minus mine was just getting warm not hot. Replaced it and now its fine i run a 10" table saw (crapsman professional) on 110 and have no problems after the breaker was replace and its a 15 amp breaker. now if i turn the lights on and the radio and start the table saw and a 15 gallon shop vac all at the same time then it may kick but only 1 out of 10 times.

>>818161
Normal household 15 amp circuits are not meant to run a continuous load at 15 amps. Motors have a few variables that affect their performance, here's a few.

Voltage: If your extension cord is too light of guage you will get more drop per amp, per foot.

Power Factor: This is the ratio of Volt Amps (VA) compared to the Vars. Vars are the reactive force of the motor on the power supply. To lower the vars and in effect increase the power factor motors have capacitors installed in parallel.

The probable fix:
There are special motor breakers that cost an arm and a leg, but running a 20 amp circuit might be the most effective and safe bet.

Why a 15 amp household breaker pops:
all household breakers are rated for non continuous loads. This means that they can only handle 80% of their rating for a certain amount of time. 15 amp breakers really work for 12 amps, and 20 amp breakers will work up to 16 amps continuous.

>>818625
my problem is if I'm gonna hire an electrician to install whole new wiring. I want it to my back porch [where theres already an outlet in the concrete wall but only a 15 amp 120volt crapzoid outlet]

and have it a 220volt 50amp outlet.

but I don't feel like paying some sparky $1,200 to run maybe 100 feet of line. and install a breaker. and im sure as hell not dicking around with 220 volt 50 amps myself. plus it has to be county approved, im not staying in this house for ever and they inspect dodgy wiring setups to make sure they're to code.

do I sound like someone who can install wiring to code?! I hope not.

>>818161
It sounds like a motor short to me. You need to get yourself a megger.

>>818625
Second this to infinite.
Electromechanical Technician here, the breaker is the problem, get a bigger amperage one, but not in excess or your motor will break bad in case of short-circuit. Get something arranound 18-20 Amps

>>819318
u fucks really can't read can you?

Non thanks to most here who posted on this thread. I fixed the switch by itself with the motor doing the same shit.

I unplugged one contact of the Cap and spun the motors shaft by hand and flipped the switch, it ran for 8 seconds before the thermal switch flipped again.

so this whole time, the switch wasn't even the cause.

who fucking knows. this thing isn't anything but fucking problems and more problems.