/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>746163
Personally I have always hated pad-per-hole perfboard like that, it just seems to get in the way, I prefer blank perfboard and just use wirewrap wire to connect point-to-point. Whatever you do be sure to put some thought into component layout so point to point connections are as short as possible.

Slightly related;
What kind of temperatures are recommended for using these boards?
I find myself burning off pads at times.

>>746183
my guess is probably below 400C ie normal soldering temps

>>746184
I'm generally on 300C and it still happens.

>>746184
Well to be fair, I'm using a shitty iron without proper temperature control, but it's still "300C"

>>746183
>Slightly related;
>What kind of temperatures are recommended for using these boards?
>I find myself burning off pads at times.
if the pads are only solder, they're gonna melt when you solder onto them. Spend more money and buy copper-pad thru-hole plated boards if you want the pads to stay in place.

The solder pads make it a bit easier to get components to mount solid. It isn't usually critical tho, and even plain breadboard (with no solder or copper pads, only holes drilled) will work too.

>>746163
Those I usually use only for wire-wrap. The pads just help tack things in and allow for other components to be mounted.

Yup, this thread confirms my intuition. I though maybe there was a next level strategy to soldering onto the pad per hole perfboard but there isnt apparently

>>746183
>>746185
I've been soldering for pay for 30 years. You're keeping the iron on the joint too long then, and/or pressing too hard. Diagnosis: Lack of experience. Up your game.

I make my traces like this, which i think looks clean, but I know most people hate it

>>746645

Every time I try to do that all the solder clumps up into one or two pads.

>>746645
I do it similarly but with much less solder. Using component leads and wire for tracks and tacking them to each pad along the way.

>>746645
that is wasteful, unreliable, and dangerous to achieve, and brittle so not durable, it is literally the worst method to bridge those holes

>>746645
how the fuck do you do it, the chemical properties of the solder makes it clump up on individual holes. you are a magician

>>746671
is it better to use the bent legs of the components as rails?

>>746693
I put a small dot of solder on each pad I need to use, let them cool, then slowly drag the iron along the paths i need and it turns out like that

>>747125
So basically either burn the flux away, use excessive amounts of solder or make borderline cold joints. Or a combination of all the above.

>>747145
It would have work way better had i used thinner solder

>>746183

You're holding the iron too long onto the pads. Either you are using too small of a tip, too low power of an iron, too low temperature, or a dry tip with little to no solder on it.

Also do not use any downward force at all. You don't actually want your iron to touch the pads, you want the wet solder on your iron to touch the pads.

Hot and quick is what you want.

>>746645

All those cold solder joints...

Solder is for joining touching metal, not for bridging gaps. Use spare wire leads for your traces.

>>747125

So you're making 100% cold solder joints.

You do not want to be moving solder around when its in that paste like state, you end up with high electrical resistance connections, that are also brittle.

If you used good quality eutectic solder, those bridges would not be possible to make.

>>747145
Of course you use excessive amounts of solder. You're making a wire out of solder.

There's no such thing as a solder-solder cold joint, because molten solder is (by definition) above the melting point (and therefore the alloying point) of solder. As long as you used enough heat at each copper-solder joint, you're golden.

I personally use this method to close jumpers instead of zero-ohm SMD resistors; I get a nice hot joint on each pad with slightly too much solder, and then just drop some only-just-molten solder where the resistor would go, and the whole lot pops together and makes a nice bridged jumper.

>>747310

That is 100% false unless you are using eutectic solder.

Most solder is non-eutectic and has a region between the liquid and solid state. Stop posting bullshit justifying your cold solder joints on your PCBs.

>>747320
that wasn't me but way to be an ass about my first project

>>747348

This is a site for people to learn. It is not a good thing for them to learn the wrong way to do something.

Your next project you should strive to improve. Don't use pure solder bridges, and don't move solder around when it's solidifying.

>>747348
It's called constructive criticism Jennifer. Get a helmet or fuck off back to facebook.

>>747348
If nobody tells you that it is not a good idea you will continue to do it like that.

>>746645
uses lotsa solder that way.
it is quick & convenient, but I've never seen it done in a manufacturing situation, so I would guess there is a reason why

buy a spool of 'bus wire',,,,, it is non-insulated solid pre-tinned wire made for doing little bridges like that.

>>747320
No it's not. You're getting confused with solder/copper joints, which do need high heat.

All solder joints are made by alloying, and the alloying temperature is way below the melting temperature. If this weren't the case, it would be impossible to solder anything, as you'd have to heat all the metals to above their melting point.

If the solder is molten, it's way above the alloying point of solder, thus it will always alloy to solder.

You cannot make a cold joint to solder. What exactly do you think would be going on if you did/could?

>>747608
>You cannot make a cold joint to solder.
1. drop a blob of molten solder on a room temp solder joint
2. peel the blob off
By varying the conditions, you can make anything from totally unacceptable shit to solid joints.

(just passing by)

also by trying to solder that much amount of solder, you almost certainly will HAVE to overcook the existing solders for new solder to add on, result = overcooked oxidised solder all the way

the one time I tried to use pure solder bridges it was a horrifying mess. if those"flower boards" were cheaper i might use them, but instead i just use stripboard. i don't understand why more people don't do this and instead make things harder for themselves by using perfboard

>>747633
Stripboard layout needs more planning, checking and board space than pad-per-hole or plain perfboard layouts. It also limits how you can orient the components and cutting the tracks is kinda annoying.

Tl;dr. Different people, different tastes.

>>747633
>>747640
OP here, i didn't use a stripboard because i didnt't even know such a thing existed. Definitely would have used that had i known

>>747608

Despite continuing to post. You are still wrong.

>>747608

Technically it is not a cold joint, but a disturbed joint. Electrically, it is just as bad as a true cold joint. Poor mechanical strength, high electrical resistance.

You can't make liquid solder bridge pads on a perf board, only when it is in a paste-like state will it bridge, which means you are moving it while it is solidifying.

>>747640
There's actually a stripboard-track-cutting-tool that makes it a piece of piss.

>>747844
why isn't ther (or is there) solderable breadboards with the breadboard configuration. like power supply rail, parallel rails etc

>>747888
They exist. Search for "Solderable Breadboard" and you should find a variety in the common places.

>>747907
>http://www.jameco.com/1/1/421-br1-solderable-pc-breadboard-1-sided-pcb-matches-830-tie-point-breadboard-power-rails.html

>>747907
why doesn't everyone use this? it seems so great. it is not potentially as compact as perfboard but it is so much easier

>>747913
- Because many circuits can be built on a smaller $2 protoboard.
- Because edge connectors can be installed on protoboards.
- Because protoboards can fit in smaller project boxes, or boxes with battery compartments.

>>747844
is it literally just a drill bit with a handle?

>>747959

Pretty much. Well, the tip is hardened etc..

Or, just take a stanley knife (box cutter,craft knifr or whatever its called in your country) and score thr tracks with a bit of force. If in doubt, check the track is actually cut with a multimeter.

>>747844
I know, I've used that tool. It's still kinda annoying to cut traces and if you have two pads close enough, you'll need a knife.

>>747959
The very tip is drill-like, but there's no twist. And yes, a normal drill bit with a handle works quite well.

>>747844
Pretty-much, yes.

The tip is designed to locate in the stripboard hole, and it's the exact diameter of a stripboard strip, and there's one of those baffles at the top of the handle like on mini-screwdrivers.

It's basically a pin-vice with really good ergonomics for one specific task.

>>748145
IMO it's easier to design the circuit such that all breaks are a whole hole than it is to faff about with a knife.

>>746645
This is the first time I want to puke because of something so beautiful

This bloke is a god at prototyping with this sort of board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5MNLTc7YhY
Sadly in Japanese but you an see the method and there is a english write-up about it.
http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html

>>749383
Jesus that would be maddening without some incredible patience. I'm impressed, thanks for the link.

>>749383
what they call the patient of a saint

>>749383
I am in disbelief. I did laugh a bit when he tried to solder a new pin and the others started to desolder. I wonder how well they'd stand to a bit of vibration or flexing. not very well I suppose.

>>749383

>soldering QFN to perfboard

Todays tinkerings.
Converted a mechanical pencil to a 0.19mm wire dispenser.

Then did some soldering with tweezers and a strong pair of reading glasses.

The component side.

components....

Then a couple of hours on the desktop CNC machine.

LED speedo for my motorbike.

Assembled and a bit of code on the Atmega8 to test the display. There's more code to do such as using the LDR as a auto dimmer for at night and finishing the speed calculations from the wheel diameter etc.

This is the prototype and if I like it I'll make a more sensible case and send a PCB design of to OSHPark and hopefully sell some to my friends.

>>751848
gr8 pl8 m8, i'm going to petition the vatican to declare you a saint
how did you solder those :O
are those magnet wires?, how do you strip the enameled coating, it is always a pain in the butthole

>>746645
I do something similar. But instead of using solder to do the traces I use wire.

>>751885
it is the sensible way of doing it tbh
i make a ground and vcc rail with a separate wiresand solder everything on them

>>751882
>magnet wires
those wires are not magnetic

>>751926
>magnet wires

>>751882
The enamel wire I've used has enamel that burns clean off if you place a soldering iron on it.

>>751929
yeah exactly
enamel wire
why don't you just call it what it is

>>751940
fuck you

>>751942
come at me bro
try calling up a proper distributer (not radio shack) and asking for magnet wire, see what happens buddy.

>>751945
Bee
Tee
Eff
Oh

>>751947
REKT
E
K
T

>>751947
you sure showed me!

>>751947
That guy was righter though.

>>751947
>tried to do something similar to point out how stupid it is.

>manual transmission
>stick shift had more results

>camera
>picture taker had more results

>mechanical pencil
>lead pen had more results

well all in all google is retarded and doesn't mean much.

>>751945
They'll give you what you want because they aren't retards and they know what you're talking about.

>>751985
>sore loser

>>751857
It will be interesting to see how it holds up to the vibrations of the motorcycle.

>>751926
Look up what an electromagnet is and then figure out how they're related. It's also (but less commonly) called transformer wire.

>>751882
Hi,
>gr8 pl8 m8,
Thanks, makes a change form being called a nerd.
> i'm going to petition the vatican to declare you a saint
I've been to the vatican and it's full of freaky weird shit.
>how did you solder those :O
Normal soldering iron. I have a older temp controlled Weller. Check out the video I posted from ELM ChaN. I use a strong pair of reading glasses from the cheap shops but I have friends who use those head mounted magnifiers or stereo microscopes.
>are those magnet wires?,
Yea, some people argue over the exact name but I'm not worried about such things.
>how do you strip the enameled coating,
It melts off with the iron, see the video posted above in the thread.
I had to specifically buy Solderable Enamel / Magnet wire. The coating has a lower melting point than the normal wire and burns off with ease.
You can use normal Enamel / Magnet wire but its a pain in the arse to get the coating off.
> it is always a pain in the butthole
Well yes it is, but there's no gain without pain. And you can't work with the SMT components without some sort of frustration.

>>752169
>It will be interesting to see how it holds up to the vibrations of the motorcycle.
This will be a prototype so will only be used for a couple of weeks at the most. If I like the idea I'll be sending a PCB design off to OSH park so the circuit will be more robust and much more compact.

What wire would /diy/ recommend for these boards?
Something easy to get from ebay preferably and not enamel please (the coating is hell to strip).

>>752204
Couldn't you strip the enamel using sandpaper?

>>752204
I use 30AWG wire with Kynar (or other temperature-resistant) coating. Avoid PVC-coated wire, as the coating withdraws when you solder it. It also gets soft, and just makes a complete mess if you're not careful.

You can get decent strippers for small-gauge wire from eBay too.

>>752210
Is 30AWG sufficiently thick for breadboards?

>>752232
I'd say no

>>752232
If you mean solderless breaboards, then you want maybe 22AWG. And since you're not soldering, the coating material doesn't matter.

>>752244
I do intend to solder. Just wondering if I could use it for breadboarding as well.

>>752204
>>752210
I should add that if you have the option, Kynar wire is usually cheaper when bought from a distributor. Many of the eBay sellers just resell distributor reels with a five to ten buck markup.

>>752256
good thing my 100m reel of 28ga only cost 3$

>>752256
Ebay is about the only option for me here. Local shops run it at 1 EUR/m.

>>752281
From ebay?

>>751848
This is wrong om so many levels