/diy/ - Do It Yourself

Can I see some of your work OP?
The work you're most proud of?

>>559884
are those huge drill bits on the floor to the left? how would a blacksmith use them?

>>559948
anal expansion

>>559884
No questions to ask (I've known blacksmiths in the SCA, so my thirst for knowledge was quenched by them long ago) but I did feel the need to share this bit of spontaneous silliness.

I've always wondered about the following scenario:

Let's suppose one were to find themself stranded on a deserted island and they have nothing but the clothes they're wearing. How would they go from that to say, building a communication tower? How exactly would you even make the most basic tools to begin with, before you even try to start mining iron and whatnot and even if you did mine iron, how on earth would you refine it and whatnot? And then, there's the electronic components like the capacitors and resistors and whatnot. Can that stuff be made by a single person on a deserted island?

>>559992
>Can that stuff be made by a single person on a deserted island?
Sure. In about 100 years or so, providing you have an eidetic memory, an engineering degree, at least one woman with you of childbearing age who is willing to have your children, and you have children who also have eidetic memory and you teach them everything you know, so eventually they can build a technological civilization on the island and create electronics from the ground up.

In other words: No, kid, you wouldn't. You'd do everything you could to get enough to eat and fresh water to drink, and build signal fires to get help to come take you the fuck off the godforsaken island.

>>559884
iv been curious too blacksmithing and really want to get into it. Could you give me some advice on the materials im going to need and a place that can give me instructions to learn the trade. Also some tips on some things that are good for begginers to make?

>>559992
It really depends on what is available in the environment. If the ore is there to work then yes you can make a communications device. However, it had better be something really simple like a spark-gap transmitter. That is doable in a short amount of time. Anything beyond that requires blood minerals which are something you'll not find in all the same place.

Hey smithbro. There's an 17th century rapier going very cheep near mine. Issue is the blade is bent at about 130 degrees in two places. How hard is it to straighten out bent blades?

>>560071
This is a (bad) pic of the marking on the blade near the guard. Forgot to take any useful ones.

Good to have this here. I literally bought an anvil and coal forge last weekend. It came with a blower actual pic related. I'm thinking of replacing it with an electric fan, as I'm not trying to teach myself how to turn a crank but how to smith.
Any recommendations for working with coke? That's the fuel that came with the forge, blower, hood, chimney, drifts, punches, chisels and anvil (for $100 :)

>>559992
>>559998
>>560058

In fact, this is not that complicated, but those simple things are what people usually fail trying...

Try to make iron form rust and you'll know why. The recipe and process is very simple, at least unless you try it... than you see how insanely hard it is to do all things right.

It's like with igniting fire with sticks or flint&metal - everybody has heard how to do this, nobody can do this. Most people even can't find proper sticks / flint&metal to start with...

>>560078
Man those old hand crank bellows are expensive. I'd keep it and simply make a pulley for the crank and use a motor with it.

>>560085
>It's like with igniting fire with sticks or flint&metal - everybody has heard how to do this, nobody can do this.

It's pretty easy to do, so long as you know how to do it properly. Here's a great website for primitive technologies,

http://www.primitiveways.com/

"Most" people who do not need to do something to live normally give up after a very short time of trying. Others keep doing and learning and finally get it right; especially if they need to do it to live.

As a tip, you can use a solid piece of wood/tree limb to hammer out smelted metal enough to create a hammer head using an earthen forge with charcoal and makeshift bellows. After you have that one tool created you are off and running with technology so long as you have 3 things, raw supplies, knowledge, and determination.

>>559884
/diy/ usually has a blacksmithing thread going on at all times, but it's been pretty quiet for like a month in terms of blacksmithing threads. Personally trying to do some pattern welded steel for the first time, not exactly going great.

>>560111
I really want to do mosaic when I get a more permanent forge going.

>>559934
I don't have a very good camera at the moment, but I'll see what I can do
>>559948
Looks like it, and no idea.
>>560071
Not to hard, but re-tempering the blade could be tricky
>>560078
It's really something you need to learn yourself. You need to get a feel for it, but you should buy some coal, so you can use to the coke to turn it into more.

>>559992
I would think the tech tree would start with:
knap stone for stone tools -> use stone tools to make wood tools wood/stone tools -> make fire -> use fire to make metal tools

>>560019
>>559884
I also wanna know how to get started. Where does someone actually do the smithing? Like an actual smithy or in their backyard or what? And if it's in the backyard how the hell do you not get noise complaints?

>>560689
An enclosed space would probably be better to reduce the risk of fire.
Wood charcoal blows a lot of sparks.

>>560689
You could check with your local ABANA membership. I live in the country so I don't have to deal with shit. i do all of my smithing in a worshop behind my house.

I recently took an interest in blacksmithing.

I put together a dinky forge last week using an old stainless steel sink and some scrap angle iron we had in the garage. It's a bit short, but when I fired it with wood just to cure the cement, I was able to use the embers near the end to get some small steel piping up to red heat with just a little bit of air from a handheld bellows blowing through the bottom. Going to make a few changes (more defined fire pit mostly, a grate for the tuyere) and I think it will do, at least at first.

Meanwhile, I'm playing hide and seek with a reasonably priced anvil. It's winning so far.

>>560713
Do you have access to any railroad track scrap?

>>560735
I've not had any luck yet. There's an antique mall/flea market about half an hour away that I keep meaning to check out and see what they have but I just haven't gotten a chance yet. I've got a 16 pound sledgehammer that rarely gets used for anything that I've thought about using but I'd really rather just wait a little bit and get something a little more suitable. A good size piece of track would be fine by me.

What would be the best way to mount it? In a bucket of concrete? Stump?

>>560739
Stump definitely.

>>560742
What do you think the best way to mount it to the stump would be? Horizontal and making holes in the base to mount using bolts? Or vertically using a cut in the stump and hammering it down snug?

I've done a little research on anvil stands and stumps but since I haven't been close to getting one yet, I haven't really looked in depth. I see people using railroad track in all different ways. The ones that people torch and grind to have a horn look really cool, but a lot of people seem to agree that standing it up on end to get more mass beneath the work surface is better.

>>560743
I've seen anvils mounted on vertical stumps and on horizontal ones.
I don't know if there's any performance difference, other than fatigue from having to stoop to work on it.
My anvil is just sitting on the ground, and after 10-12 hours of crouching like gollum, I start to wish I'd bothered to rig me up a stump.
As far as the actual mounting, I don't see what it'd hurt either way, but the bolts might be less labour than cutting a large rectangular bit out of the stump.

>>560743
Bolts would be fine. It is more about being comfortable as you use the anvil than anything else. You could just shoe in 4 nails, one on each side, and that'd be all you need to prevent it from sliding as you hammer.

The issue with mass has to do with the hammer strike. Each time you hit the anvil your hammer's force is applied to the work piece. If there is any give at all or shock absorption by anything under the anvil this force will be partially absorbed more than what would normally happen. I do not know the figures, but I'm pretty sure that a wood base won't have all that much of effect on your performance, even though it will absorb some of the force. Concrete would be better and a massive block of tool steel would be best, but that isn't exactly within the realm of many smith's grasp.

When you start using smaller and smaller anvils, the amount of mass and absorption with the material under the anvil will play a far larger role. Just don't set your anvil on a bean bag and you should be fine though.

>>560739
You'd want to mount the sledge-head in a stump for minimal movement.

Unless you have a welder to weld railroad track down, don't bother until you have a real anvil. They're too light and move with every blow, which is infinitely frustrating.

As per a mount for a normal anvil, stumps are what most people use, but I filled two 5-gallon buckets with bricks, and filled the remaining space with water. Put a piece of plywood on top of the two, and the anvil on that. Sucker doesn't move for anything.

>>559884
ever thy your hand at pattern welding?

>>559884
ever try your hand at pattern welding?

>>560789
not op but that's a pretty fucking sweet pattern. I'm trying it, but I was impatient and should have gotten someone to weld the corners of my billet, my steel slid around when i used bailing wire

>>560789
I stopped trying to forge weld when a spray of flux found its way inside my glove and gave me a cluster-burn

>>560789
Yes, but I prefer using copper and nickel.

>>560824
Uhhhh


you can't forge copper. Did you mean smelting?

>>560850
He probably means mokume-gane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokume_gane

>>560762
>>560758
>>560752

Same guy here. I appreciate the replies. New question though. I hit an antique store today hoping to find a good chunk. Of steel, maybe even a a piece of railroad rail. Was just abouto to give up when at the end of their outside yard I came across pic related.


Its a ship cleat. A big one.figure its over a hundred pounds (little brother weighs 86 or so and its much heavier than him) and aside from a little surface rust seems in good shape. Better yet, they want a hundred bucks for it. They say the owner (they sell on consignment) says its steel. Looks to be cast and it rings a little when I hit it with a piece of rebar. I told them id think about it overnight.

So obviously im interested but first, is it worth use as an anvil? Its big, stout and even has horns...on the other hand its not a huge flat face. Seems like enough work area still. Second, is there any way I can be more sure of the material without putting it to a grinder? Would hate to take it home and find out I have a chunk of cast iron. But for the weight/price it just seems too good. Any thoughts /diy/?

Sorry for typos, on phone

>>560850
>you can't forge copper.

You can cold-forge copper. But I don't think he was talking about forging copper anyway.

>>560858
Can't harm to try. Otherwise just melt it down and use it for whatever project you want.

>>560858
I wouldn't use it as your primary anvil, mostly because it has no flat plane, but also you don't know the quality of the steel.

>>560850
>>560857
You can forge copper. I honestly don't know why you think you can't

>>560858
Ever see a real smith's workshop? They have a dozen different types of anvils and swage blocks of all shapes and sizes. A uniquely shaped anvil means an extended range of things you can do in your own shop.

Keep it.

>>560859
>>560865
At a hundred dollars, id not mind using it as my primary till I get a real one and tben using it as an "interesting shape" anvil. But even at a hundred dollars, if its NOT steel, its a waste, right? Why I wish I coupd be more confident about it. If id known for a fact it was cast steel id have let it follow me home today.
>>560860
I think a backyard foundry is a ways away still, someday though...

I literally don't know the first thing about blacksmiths but I've always loved pattern welded steel. I want to learn to blacksmith just so I could make these. How long would it take to learn to make something like this, maybe a small dagger to start out with. Should one practice first with traditional sword making techniques or would it be practical to skip ahead and practice pattern welding techniques if that's what I want to do.

>>560867
Do a rebound test. Drop a steel ball bearing from about a foot up. If it just sort of dribbles off, its not worth much as an anvil. If it bounces up halfway or so, its probably worth forging on at least for a while.

>>560879
Yeah, the higher it bounces the better.

>>560873

If you are willing to do your homework about pattern welding you could succeed on your first try.
Dunno what you mean with training traditional sword making techniques...seems like your approach is as of yet more mythology than theory.

If pattern welding is what you want to do, you have to learn about pattern welding.

Afterwards you draw it out with your hammer, forge it close to final form if you can do it and grind to end shape. If you never made a knife before, chances are high the first couple of blades will turn out crappy as far as aesthetics go. But you COULD get a great result even on your first try if you learn the theory behind it and keep close attention to detail while working.

>>560873
I don't mean to nit pick, but it's not pattern welding. It's Damascus steel. The real Damascus recipe was lost, but nowadays it's folded steel/iron in as many fold overs and draw outs as you can muster. When you grind to make the bevel it reveals the layers beneath.

>>560935
>I don't mean to nit pick, but it's not pattern welding.
It is.
>It's Damascus steel.
That's pretty clearly a modern blade.
>The real Damascus recipe was lost, but nowadays it's folded steel/iron in as many fold overs and draw outs as you can muster. When you grind to make the bevel it reveals the layers beneath.
Which means this contradicts your assertion that it's damascus. While some people refer to pattern welded blades as damascus, that's not accurate.

From the smith's site;
>8 1/2" blade hand forged from my own pattern welded(damascus) steel.Blade has 80 layers of 1095 & 15N20.Copper guard with iron claws.Handle is desert ironwood,copper,and waterbuck bone.
http://www.banfieldblades.com/daggers.html

>>560935
True Damascus is a vanadium-nickel alloy with the carbon set in nano-tube patters, that acts as a memory metal, so that it can "resharpen" itself via passing the blade through a fire.
It's a memory metal.
TL;DR: Damascus =/= simple pattern weld.
Pic fucking related.

>>560943
2/2 During your smelting, assuming you have your iron, vanadium, and nickel set in the right proportion, (Personally, I would recommend vanadium-iron sand, to which nickel is added, or iron-nickel meteorite, to which vanadium is added), you need only to replace your charcoal for carbon, with chitin for carbon, i.e., locusts, etc.
My personal favorite material for that is cicada shells.
They don't have all them pesky innards to boil out first. ;)

I'm sure most of us know by know that titanium swords are not really viable.
but has anyone made a sword using titanium in the center and using steel for the edge?

>>560946
It sounds like a cool idea, but honestly, I have no idea how I would get the steel to adhere to the titanium core.
I fear it would simply not stick together.
Maybe there is some feat of metal-working I do not know of, this is highly likely.

>>560885
>>560879
I've been in and out all day

Just how, uh, absolute would this be? I've heard of doing it (or using a hammer the same way) to test anvils before purchasing, but just how sure should I feel regarding the results? If I try a few times and each time it just clunks against the cleat and refuses to bounce back up, is it DEFINITELY worthless or just likely worthless? On the flipside, if I drop a hammer (or bearing, but I have hammers while I have no bearings) and it bounces right back up, is it definitely good steel? Or just likely to be good steel?

I just feel so unsure about the metal itself. I might go back tommorow to try and test for rebound but I just want to know how much faith I should place in the whole process.

>>560952
I personally never used that steel bearing trick, (but it sounds really neat and I'm going to start using it), but I have always used the "listen to it's ring" trick.
Like, If I want to test a piece of steel, say, an anvil, I will strike it with a hammer I know to be GOOD steel, and I will listen.
>CLUNK
means not good steel.
PIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
means good steel.

Strike it and listen, the more RRRRRRIIIIIIIINNNNGGGGGGGGg it's got, the better.

>>560952
Sorry, I'm pretty drunk, and I keep forgetting to say stuff I mean to say, but as for it's feel,
When your hammer strikes the surface, it should bounce back up as though there is a demon set into the anvil, projecting your hammer back at you.

You should be able to dribble that hammer like basketball, all day.
If yer anvil is good, the only actual energy input required from you should be to start the hammer falling, and to give it a little push each time it begins to fall again, ya know, to compensate for gravity and air resistance and energy loss into your anvil-block, and all that.

Your hammer should bounce EASILY, else you will for a fact beat yourself to fucking death trying to hammer anything.

>>560958
>pretty drunk
>yer
>demon set into the anvil
>knows a lot about forging
Anonymous confirmed for grizzled old man drinking to forget about his past of forging great weapons for mighty heroes.

>>560959

>>560960
That Bruenor Battlehammer?

>>560961
The what?
I was going for this sort of message:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuGVrEWfovQ

What books would /diy/ recommend to someone just gaining interest in blacksmithing?

For real, if you can't match the snare-beat in this song with a ten pound hammer, you need a springier steel.
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkIwVXu2Vfk

>>560967
I would recommend you use those books to light the fire of your forge, and take you some steel, and heat it, and play around with it.
Just heat it and dick around with it.

>>560973
I first got into smithing with a couple of propane torches and some iron nails that were lying around.
Made a couple really cool necklaces.

>>559884
My great great great grandfather was a blacksmith. I was clearing out the garage at our old house today and went through the few remaining tools we still have of his and his sons (also a blacksmith). I wish we had the old anvil and mallet, we have a modern anvil shaped object and a very old small forge which is cracked. Regrettably the blower is missing, we had it when I was young but it's probably lost forever. If I'm not too lazy maybe I can post pictures tomorrow.

>>560983
>iron nails
Cool.
Now do steel.

>>560967
Anvilfire website has a nice list and articles and projects.

Honestly though it you can learn for someone up close and personal all the better.

Check ABANA or with your local art council

The best part of taking a class is a lot of times you can get out of the class with a pair of tongs and a hammer and you can build out from there.

Thats the best part of smithing you make your own tools.

Honestly im a cheapskate and I`m thinking of building a junkyard parts hammer next. Rather than droping 9k on a air hammer or 3 k on a used hammer on ebay

Does anyone here have a treadle hammer or a reciprocator?

I`ve only used a myers 50# before and was wondering if and

Anyone had experiance with a old hammer like a nazel and how did it treat you?

>>561103
I love that Anvilfire has all those awesome little project ideas, but someone really needs to update their site design, it hurts my soul

>>561123
I dont know man

I felt the same way at first, but then it grew on me.

>that layout
>that logo
>those cheesy comics

It's so comfy.

Where does one acquire a charcoal forge? I've been looking to get into blacksmithing, and from talking to friends and relatives I've managed to get 2 anvils, an assortment of hammers, tongs, and even an old bellows all for zero cost. For the life of me, I cannot find anyone who has a forge or knows where to get one.

>>561522
You've got all that and you're hung up on possibly the easiest tool to slap together at home? I mean keep looking for professional forge or look into building one yourself, but in the meantime, put yourself together a drum brake forge or some other ten dollar deal and get started! You've got the hard stuff already.

>>561522
You could even honestly just have a big bunch of coals and tape a hairdryer to a pipe to get extra circulation. You literally have all of the hard to acquire tools and you're having trouble with the easiest one to half-ass

>>561553

I have built a brake drum forge, but unfortunately it's a piece of garbage. For using charcoal, a brake drum just isn't deep enough. It takes forever to get the iron hot enough to work.

What I'm looking for is plans for a good quality charcoal forge to build, or one to buy. I've searched the internets, but I keep coming up with the brake drum forge which is shitty for charcoal.

>>560967

Edge of the Anvil,by Jack Andrews

>>561522
Using charcoal isn't much different than using coal/coke. Except it is a lot lighter. Expect to go though it quicker. However,there is no super stinky sulfur smell or that much soot either.

>>561615
Are you sure you're using real charcoal and not BBQ briquettes?

>>560858
That would be better for copper raising than blacksmithing, but if it's all you have it's better than nothing. I have rail sections I got from a neighbor who works at a railroad which I got after I left school. Then I had to make delrin raising hammers, Mokume Gane mini kiln, and no more casting equipment cause poorfag.

MFW no more metals studio

>>561522
use propane it will be more efficient and quicker heating and you dont have to feed it or deal with ash

>>559884
What kind of coal do you use AND where do you get it? The only thing any websites will give me is charcoal for grilling. I can find pretty much everything EXCEPT the coal. Would the grilling charcoal work, or is there a specific kind I need?

>>561693
I had trouble finding coal too. I eventually lost interest. Eventually I found a place locally that sold it, but they wouldn't just sell me a little bit, and they wouldn't tell me where I could buy just a little bit because they didn't want to send me to their competition. They wouldn't sell to me unless I bought at least a ton, which I'm not doing for a hobby I'm not even sure if I'll like. After a while I just lost interest.

>>561693
Different anon, but I cut wood, and make my own charcoal.
It's pretty easy to do.

>>561701
And how do I do that? And, what wood do you use? Because I have a lot of trees (I live in a fucking forest).

>>561704
The harder the wood, the better.
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Charcoal

I use a circular pit in the ground, that I pack with wood, and light, then when it burns down a bit, and has coals on the bottom, and all of it is flaming, I cover the opening with a heavy iron plate, leaving a little gap for smoke to escape.

>>561715

Thank you so much, I'm going to use this as soon as possible!

>>561718

I got interested in blacksmithing some and have been gathering tools and materials. I've also been paying more attention to scrap metal, but I had a question regarding sheet metal. I recently had to replace the muffler on my jeep as the old one got torn up at the back. I've kept it so far because it's a big ol' chunk of metal, but it occured to me that it really isn't...it's a few hollow chunks of metal held together by sheet metal. My question is, would these be good to practice forge welding and folding with? Can sheet metal be folded onto itself over and over to create a bar?

It seems like it would be perfectly doable but I feel like I might be missing something here.

>>561817
Not a pro by any standards but i think sheet would be too thin, you'd want to work with bars or doing stock more than sheets for forge welding

>>561831
>>561817
If you weld it right it won't be thin anymore, now will it?

>>561817

Depends on the exact material it is made of.

But it is not worth the bother I'd say. Start with the correct materials that will actually weld together without greater problems and make for a usable material.

Meaning: A steel with manganese like 0-1 and a steel containing Nickel. Make the manganese steel plates double the thickness than the nickel steel - the former will move more easily under your hammer and you do not want to have your pattern overly bright (nickel steel won't be bothered by your etching medium so it makes for the silvery highlights).

Start with a billet that already has 10 layers. Point weld it on both ends so it does not come apart before your first weld.

>>561847

Forgot to add:

Look for steels in the range of 0.6 to 1.0 percent carbon. Avoid steel containing chromium or large amounts of silicium.

>>561848
>not seeking vanadium-nickel wootz with carbon nano-tubes
>any year

>>561836
No but welding sheets can be a bitch, you run into issues with getting things to heat evenly and retain that heat and decarb when doing blades. Hot working in general is not fun

>>561836
Just looking at that picture makes me cringe.

>>562274
I personally don't wear gloves while forging, but now that I've done a bit of forging, I cringe every time I see a shirtless blacksmith in fiction. I'd hate to get molten borax all over my pot belly.

>>562300
dwarfs are made with stone skin they can take the pain

>>562301
forgot muh dwarf picture

>>562300
No I mean just look at those tongs and how he's gripping it. Absolutely disgusting.

>>562305
I actually can't unsee the anatomy now, his arms are weird as hell

>>560739
Can someone PLEASE explain to me why railway track gets recommended over a sledgehammer?

Especially when you consider that the sledgehammer is a lot more solid, easy to get hold of, cheap, available in multiple sizes and shapes etc...

>>561159
I agree. Also, the advice on there is top-notch. Especially where they say "read, read, read some more, read some more, read a bit more, read a few more books, you might know something" along with "hit steel, hit more steel, hit steel, some more, a little more, more steel, now you know how to hit steel"

Practice makes perfect but there's no point practising if all you doing is belting away without any idea of anything

>>562329
a hammer is smaller

>>562329
It's not all about solid.
Railroad track is really "springy".
That makes a big difference after you've been dropping hammer for like 12 hours.

>>562332
I know. the difference being you won't have been fighting a piece of springy, bouncy anvil for twelve hours.

I'm actually a fairly well accomplished blacksmith, and I NEVER recommend railroad track. It's far too springy, the surface has completely the wrong profile and all-over, it's just plain terrible. A 20lb sledge will work a hell of a lot better.

>>562337
You can beat yourself to death all you want.
I want my hammer to bounce.

>>562341
Why not go to the junk yard buy a old forklift fork. Band saw it into sections then stack and weld them?
an old maxim I read on the subject says the anvil should be at least ten times your hammer weight. The problems with the rail and hammer head is there is just no mass, its too narrow to work on, its great to imporovise if you got nothing else. But really you could just use rocks if you had to

>>562358
I don't know what kind of dinky little track you're using, but my anvil sits on the ground, with no stakes to hold it, and doesn't rock.
It has been hammered on for a century with no problem.

how do I find bog iron?

I have seen orange seeps in the creek behind my house do I dig there?

>>562358
Cant speak for anyone else, but the junkyards near me are automotive only.

Everything else is taken to recycling warehouses and ground/crushed/etc on site, usually within a day or two.

>>560078
100 dollars thats an insanely good deal im very jealous i use a chunk of steel as my anvil and built my own forge and dont have any nice hammers and no drifts cause all that shits so expensive and hard to find in washington state!

>>562359
>rocks

He means using stone as an anvil, not the motion of rocking.

I see a lot of easier stuff thats recommended as starter projects, but is there anything that serves as an absolute starting point? I mean, say I have all my tools together and plan to fire my forge for the first time tommorow. I have no hands on experience, just a lot of reading. Should I worry about actually trying to make somethinv or should I just take some scrap steel, heat it and beat it for a few hours with no real goal? Are there some sort of exercises or something to do? Or should I just try and make something simple right away, like a coal rake or fire poker or something?

>>562388
>but is there anything that serves as an absolute starting point?
Making nails.

>>562388
Use nails to make drill bits. You can cold peen them.

>>562378
Wish I could share, but I've just been handed a goldmine and I intend to make the best of it that I can.

>>562362

The dude in the boat in >>560101 seems to have scooped up some major iron from way down deep. I'm think magnets.

>>562362
>>562479
Magnets are good for getting tiny pieces of ore from soil, and you can use them to test if you actually have iron ore.

You just need an iron/steel tipped-stick or something similar (if the creek isn't deep, you could use a crowbar). You prod the creek/lake/bog's bed and when it 'tinks' (metal on metal) you've probably found a piece of ore. Afterwards you fish it up with a net or just use your hands if the water's not deep.

Also, you can take a large, powerful magnet, tie it to a string, and trail it behind you as you walk on a dirt road. Stop every so many steps and brush the collected ore off the magnets and into a plastic bag. Rinse and repeat.

Also, after your first bloomery smelt, you'll want to do it more and more. It's addictive.

rate my forge, /diy/

>>562382
No shit.
What a revelation.

>>562512
the base under the brake drum, is that a PC case?

seems like that would be way too thin

>>562517
heat rises

>>562519
that's true, but when charcoal is burning yellow-hot it makes everything around it hot.

the bricks at the bottom of my forge are always hot when I get done forging.

but hey, if it works it works

So I went to mount a sledgehammer head into a stump today so I could at least have some sort of anvil. As I did so, it occured to me that the face of the sledge is slightly crowned.

Is this an issue? I see a lot of people using them as anvils. Do they just get worked flat or am I worrying too much about not having a perfectly flat surface?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBVa2bw3r_k

This shit is hard yo

>>562522
file it flat

>>562542
did you spot weld the ends for easier working?

>>562542
yes it is. good job, though. good stuff. the top stock could use a few more passes though.

>>562545
he would have to anneal it before a file did anything

>>562522
it'll work itself flat over years, but if you're only doing small stuff, just keep flipping the piece and it should be allright

>>562546
I tied them with bailing wire, which caused a lot of problems, I really should have had someone weld it up for me.
>>562547
Yeah, my arm couldn't keep up working two at a time so I put the top one aside and just worked the bottom one. Really happy that it's actually welded up now and doesn't keep trying to come apart every time I hit it against the grain.

>>562551
get an oxy acetylene set up going
its useful as hell for what your doing and other stuff
you braze weld cut heat and much more with the set up

>>562517
>>562519
Yeah it's an old Dell PC case. It's thin steel, but the thermal coefficient should be low enough that it doesn't get hot enough to weaken the integrity. The "blower" is a handheld Dirt Devil vacuum that I rigged for maximum blowing potential. Duct taped all the seams, and bolted an adapter on so I could connect it to the air pipe.

>>562556
you can get a set up at harbor freight for around 100ish $

>>562557
you actually might want to set it up for minimal blow. too much moving air makes the small coals shoot right out, which is frustrating. think a slow, steady stream of air, like a lung bellows.

>>562558
I googled it for you
http://www.harborfreight.com/industrial-oxy-acetylene-welding-outfit-92496.html
199 for all the stuff you need minus the bottles

>>562556
I have access to a TIG at the shop I work at in uni, it's just that the guy who knows how to work it is being really flaky lately. Regardless, it'll be several weeks until i'm done with these billets, and they're welded up enough to work with right now

>>562568
tig is not really for that type of metal you would be better off with stick or mig or oxy acetylene

>>562569
Well, all it's really for is running a bead down the corners to hold it together. Either way I'm probably going to be working those two billets until February so I'll cross that bridge when I get there

>>562574
what are you only working 5 minutes a day? the constant heating and cooling is going to make the metal brittle the idea is to get it done with as little heating and cooling as possible

>>562560
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I might take a black iron pipe cap and drill some holes into it so that it diffuses the air.

>>562576
Forge at uni is only open 2 hours a week. And yeah, I know, it's what I have to work with. Hoping to give some kickass letter openers to my scholarship donors.

I want to get into blacksmithing but I live in the suburbs. How likely am I to piss off my neighbors?

>>562734
as likely as your neighbor pisses you off when mowing the lawn or working in his shed/garage. just don't do it past 8pm or before 11am and you'll be golden.

if anyone asks you about it they'll probably consider it a novelty.

>my neighbor is a blacksmith! how strange and neat!

>>562736
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING PAUSE HEATING DING DING DING DING
yeah that wont get old after the first hour

someone will call the cops guaranteed

I got the cops called on me for running my dirtbike in my driveway to break in a freshly rebuilt top end

not OP but a blacksmith as well.

pic related, my forge.

>>562576

> the constant heating and cooling is going to make the metal brittle

Not really correct. It is correct that you should refrain from too much heating. The reason is that high heat with not enough working the steel cause coarse grain. This is potentially reversible through heat treatment though (but you should try to avoid it of course).
Another reason why you want to refrain from heting it oo often is that you lose material rather quick. If you weigh the billet when you start and after you finish, you can lose up to half or a third of the material even when working correctly.

Another point to consider is this: If you work with a hand held hammer and try to go for a high layer pattern, layers get pretty thin in the end. But you lose material everytime you heat, fold and weld. It is possible you lose layers as fast as you add them.

>>559948
If theres a mill in the shop, to drill giant holes.

>>562742
got any pics of shit you have made?

How much would a complete forge with proper supplies typically cost? How much did it cost you? Always toyed around with this idea, but nearly broke and living with parents so :/. Also, where/how/what do you get as far as crafting metal. Can you make a basic tool or item out of simple sheet metal? Or a bunch of recycled metal?

>>562799
I bought a stainless steel drum (25 litres) for 25 euros, a 50kg anvil for 75.
Some stainless steel tubing I had laying around, drilled holes in it and mounted it in the drum for air blasting that furnace.
I sawed the top off of the drum, lined the drum with clay/sand mixture (20 euros), made it so that the holes in the pipe were open and free to blow air in the drum.

So about 150 euros I'd say. ~200 dollars, but you guys have less taxes.

>>562801
That sounds too cheap. And I can actually afford that.

So I gathered my low-(mostly free)budget tools and took my first swing at blacksmithing today. I spend most of the time trying to get the fire right and I'm going to have to make some changes to my forge. The brake rotor in the picture was last minute to raise the charcoal up some because I was using a hand bellows and having trouble with keeping it hot early on...after switching to the shop vac, I realized I could have left the forge as it was, with a deeper pit (minus the rotor, basically). I also then realized I should probably switch to a hair dryer or something...the shop-vac worked better than a hand bellows but it worked a little too better. Had to keep switching it on for half a second then letting it wind down. Early on I melted some of the scrap I was working with. Fortunately, it was mostly scrap that I used, just learning to swing my hammer and how long it took to get the metal hot and so forth.

Towards the end I did try a few times to make a drill bit as per >>562457 but only one came out as a 'finished' product. I'd wasted a lot of charcoal at that point so I was starting to rush.

>>562921
And here's the ugly drill bit I made. This stuff is a lot harder than people make it look. Still, my ugly little bit is concentric and I was able to bore a hole through a couple inches of wood that I trimmed off the log my 'anvil' is mounted on, so that's something at least.

how good are the harbor freight cast iron anvils?
they have a 55 lb and 25 lb one

>>562941
>cast iron

They are better than use a stone as an anvil. Consider getting a large sledge hammer and using it in the manner as the one in the image here >>562921 You don't even need to remove the handle if you don't want to. That way you can still use it for something else if you want to. This way you'll have actual tool steel instead of cast iron.

You'd be able to see if you want to move forward with a bigger anvil once you've made a few things to start with. You may even decide to save up for a nice costly forged anvil like, "RIDGID Model 12".

bumping awesome thread

>>563361
This is awesome, do you know who the blacksmith is ?

>>563361
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?13809-Confessions-of-a-bladesmith-secrets-revealed!-(Finished-Pictures-added)
Reminder that with enough sweat, blood, tears, cash, coal, and steel, you can make that shit.
I wish there were final pictures

>>563469
>I wish there were final pictures
Ignore that I'm a faggot, they were broken last time I checked, despite being in the URL

>>563461
His name is Mick Maxen.

pic definitely related

>>563461
His name is Mick Maxen.

check the pic

>>560078
This guy >>559884 here.
I don't buy shit. I find it or I improvise. As for my blower-replacement fan, I have an ancient vacuum cleaner, will dismantle and rig up.
How important is fan speed? Could I make due with a damper in the air line?
For /diy/ in general: could I possibly control fan speed by placing a potentiometer inline to the fan motor? I know a enough electronics to hurt myself.

>>563507
Air speed is pretty important. A damper would work. You might want to hook up a switch to adjust the speed.

>>562941

Total crap,honestly.

Since it's cast iron,you get absolutely no rebound from it,meaning you have to work very hard.

Also,if you miss the work piece,there is a very chance of it spalling. Still a chance with an actual anvil,but cast iron is much more brittle.

You could always weld a hardened steel plate to the top,I guess.


Every now and then you can find actual cast steel anvils at HF. Besides the roughness of the face(sander and some 80 grit fixes it right up!),they are quite good. They weigh about 110 pounds,which is light,but not too bad.

Any thoughts, opinions or reviews on these things? Anyone used one? 125 shipped...how does it compare to a sledgehammer head? Would it be better at that price to so save a bit more and try to find a real anvil in the 80-100 pound range?

>>563912
it lacks a horn and hardy hole

>>563912

Sure,go shopping around at that price. Check flea-markets and antique shops. Maybe a local ABANA group(or whatever you have locally) might be able to help you.

However,if you can't find anything that would probably work ok. I would put it in a stump,personally. Or in a LARGE piece of wood that was halfway buried. You don't want it jumping around.

The lack of a horn and hardy aren't killers. They are useful,but not required. You could always use an old vice to hold hardy tools,and you can curve stuff carefully without the horn using the face of the anvil and some gentle taps of a hammer.

>>563918
So does a sledgehammer.

>>561695
I don't know where you're from, but Brits can find house heating coal (which works well enough in my forge for the moment) at their local B&M store at the low, low price of £2.99 for 10kg.

>>563482
Thanks, dude, that's a great piece of art, for sure !

>>561695
>>561695
For real? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=buy+coal#

>>563959
well if your going to buy something you might as well get something good

you can go to a scrap yard and get a block of steel for a quarter of that price

>>560858
Cast iron would never be used in a marine environment. Rust travels deep quickly, and compromises integrity much more rapidly than in steel, making it entirely unsafe to use for any serious load, which is exactly what that cleat is designed for.

>>564180
It could be cast iron if its not from a modern ship. I doubt its a 150 yr old antique but who knows?

>>564189
actually if you google 'cast iron dock cleat' something pretty close to >>560858 pic shows up.

>>562776
a little pocket knife I made for a friend, he liked the texture on the blade so I didn't grind it smooth, just ground the edge and polished it a bit.

>>564292
That looks pretty neato

When making a knife, what's the proper way to put an edge on it? Is it part of the forging process? Or is the shape hammered out and the material thinned where the edge will be and then made with files/stones/etc?

>>564368
As I understand from the minor research I've done this week for my own knife making experiments, you forge the shape then grind the edge. Beware you don't remove the temper with the heat caused by grinding, i.e., work slowly or quench often.

>>562740
I live in a crazy white, super liberal suburban shithole and have never once even been spoken to about smithing in my backyard.

It sounds loud to you because you're on top of it; to anyone else it sounds like someone is using a tool somewhere and they probably tune it out like all other background noise.

Dirtbike motors, however, are fucking irritating as shit, way louder, and very distinctive.

How much space does one need to set up a completely amateur forge? I'm talking about 12x12 fenced yard with cement on bottom. I'm in a condo so how much smoke and noise would it make? I'm more worried about smoke as I'm it's a college condo and my neighbors are loud enough they can get fucked.

Any blacksmiths here in Europe interested in trying their hand at making swords?
Swords intended for actual use.
Well not sharp. Blunt practice swords for historic fencing.

>>564616
Smithing in europe is different that in America. In germany for instance you can only set up a smithy where there was already one. You legally can't set up one otherwise.

>>564636

You assume erroneously I am in the USA.
I was just wondering if there was an anon who could do me a fairly decent sword on the cheap.
Don't fancy spending two hundred and fifty quid for one just yet.

>>559884
Always wanted to get into this

>>564671
>Any blacksmiths here in Europe
>You assume erroneously I am in the USA
>quid

What is wrong with you

I don't end up doing much forging, but I certainly heat up a bunch of steel, and have to beat shit back straight after annealing. I use a bit of railroad track that was milled flat/square and hardened. Works pretty damn well for me, and my minimal smithing needs.


also, knifemaking becomes a very lucrative hobby after a while.

>>564682
>also, knifemaking becomes a very lucrative hobby after a while.

How so?

>>564693

Dads like knives. The initial cost is knifemaking is pretty high, but as you make more and more, you get faster at it, and your work gets consistent. Once you establish that your knives fucking rule, sell them to friends, and family... one tells another, etc. I've sold plenty, and unlike any other hobby I've ever dumped money into, knifemaking has paid me back all I've put into it, monetarily.

>>564694

Another angle, if you make knives, that means you will have to become proficient in sharpening. Learning angles, learning bevel geometry, etc. Today, I made 75$ when a dude walked into my shop off the street with a bunch (four) of shitsteel chinese knives, a hatchet, a limbing knife, two machetes, a splitting maul, a double bit axe, and a couple pocket knives.

I probably charged him a little high, but 3-4$ per knife blade, depending on side, 5$ for axes, hatchets, machetes, blah blah.

It adds up if someone brings you a dull kitchen cutlery set, etc.

Most people don't know what "sharp" is. I grazed the back of my knuckles with one of my kitchen knives tonight, and when I say grazed, I mean all four took a tiny paper-cut sized cut, and I didn't feel it. Fuckin' sharp.

>>564368
Beat/grind it oversize (at least thickness of a dime is the rule of thumb I've heard), heat treat it, then grind it to final thickness and sharpen it

Any good books to help learn technique?

>>564729
i bought this a while back, its pretty neat
http://www.bookdepository.com/Complete-Modern-Blacksmith-Alexander-Weygers/9780898158960

>>564730
or if you want,
i put it up on mediafire
https://www.mediafire.com/?ktthn5qmiy2ntax

>>560086>mfw I just inherited 3 generations worth of old blacksmithing equipment
>mfw my teacher smith envies the fuck outta me

So /diy/ I have a fire pit and a shop vac and I am looking to make a coal forge from it, how would you suggest I do this? note that I don't have a welder or plasma cutter, but otherwise I think I am good in terms of tools.

>>564808
brake drum and some piping

or you can take some black iron pipe and run it into the center of the fire pit and build a nice hot fire around it

>>559884

Do you work on a coal or propane forge?
What type of coating would you suggest for refractory material to prevent problem carcinogenic/or respiratory problems

>>564636

Suddenly removed Germany from list of future considerations

>>564808
>>564813
I am considering myself a break drum forge but it looks kind of small for longer/larger projects so I am now thinking of building this here. Yes I just drew this, I know it sucks and yes it was in mspaint...don't judge me.

>>564836
Sigh....yea, forgot pic

>>564837
that would work but the idea is to use a smaller fire to concentrate the heat to the area your working
you will use more fuel and have less fire control with that set up

>>564840
You know what, I have considered what you say and you are right so I also thought something like welding a nut over every hole so that I can seal a few anytime I need a smaller fire.

>>564844
Also, with that setup I think it would be good if one is working with long blades so they will get heated uniformly throughout their entire length.

>>564845
even when working with long blades you dont heat them like that
you only heat the few inches you are working at a time

its a waste to heat more than that because you can work fast enough to cover more than a few inches at a time

>>564823

I am from Germany and never heard of that.
Maybe this only concerns starting a business. But the community is big here and there are many people forging in their garden.

If you want to set up a pneumatic hammer, you will usually have to do that in a rented place that is designated as industry-area of course and not in an urban environment.

>>564671
How about we try a "no" on that one, mate.

Anything less that £250 is gonna be a cheap-ass piece of shit. I've had some success with making crowbar swords, but even then you're gonna be paying me at least £200, if you're lucky.

Just gonna have to pay the cash there, buddy.

>>562538
not OP but into cold metalwork. This is an amazing little gadget, I might check out the hot stuff some time!

>>564880
Bullshit. You can get perfectly fine swords at the 100 euro mark.

>>564671
>Don't fancy spending two hundred and fifty quid for one just yet.
>Bullshit. You can get perfectly fine swords at the 100 euro mark.

ok, actual full-time professional cutler and sword-maker here. (rarely use the word smith, as about 90% of my stuff is stock removal)

Short answer? No chance, and the things you can buy for 100 euros are not swords. they're sword-shaped chunks of metal that are an absolute liability to the user if you ever take them off the wall where they're hung to show.

Anyone who tries to say that a £100 sword is "perfectly fine" knows absolutely _nothing_ about the subject.

The long answer:
not a hope in hell. Lets assume for simplicity, a handmade 15th C medieval sword. tapering profile blade, diamond section, a simple cross, and a round wheel pommel. That's pretty much the simplest sort of sword you can imagine - no fuller, no complex-hilt, no detailing. To make something like that, by hand, to be decent, you're looking at perhaps £20 in steel stock, Heat-treatment will cost £30 if its outsourced. if its done in-house, expect them to need £15 of time and fuel, and £1,500 in equipment costs that they'll want to slowly recoup. So count it as £30 there too. the steel for cross and pommel will be about a tenner, the wood for a hilt grip, £3, the leather for binding it, £5, from a £40 sheepskin/calfskin hide. if its stock removed, or forged, the production costs will be in the region of £15 worth of belts for a linisher, or £5-6 worth of belts and £10 worth of fuel if its forged.
in all, just for the bits there to make the blade, in other words, you're looking at roughly £75 just for the raw materials.
you're also going to be looking at a significant volume of time. I'm a slow worker, and take a long time, but a good sword, from a competent craftsman, you're looking at a bare minimum of a week's work, lets say 48 hours for simplicity. if they want equivalent of a minimum wage, that's about £300 worth of hours.
(ctd)

>>564901
ctd.

now, those are the absolute minimums you're looking at. for a properly-made sword.

If your cross and pommel are cast in bronze, that's another £50 of material costs at least. Want a blade with a fuller, for a early medieval or Viking sword? add in another £10 of belts and 10 more hours' work, adding at least £100 to the costs.
Want a real sword? you're not just paying for the chunk of steel, if it comes from someone like me. you're also paying for my travel to the Royal Armouries, the British Museum, to Paris Musee D' Invalides, or the Solingen Klingesmuseum, or 1001 other museums, where I've been, handling the real things, making measurements of the balance points, the weight, the thickness of the blades - the stuff that a photograph does'nt convey. You're not paying for the 50, or 100 hours of work on it, you're paying for the 10,000 hours of research work I spent to get to the point where I can make a good sword in 100 hours.

you want engraving? more hours' work. Inlay? the same. you dont want to know how damn difficult it is to carve the channels on a Viking hilt to lay silver into it, and more importantly, get the silver to stay in place. Oh, and don't forget the cost of the silver. Then there's complex hilts. I swear to you, bastard swords are called that because that's what they are to make.
And so on. Stuff takes time, and it takes money. And if its a sharp, you also have the cost of a scabbard for safety.

if you find someone claiming to be able to make a good sword for under £250, run a mile, because they have no clue what it entails, or they have no clue what a sword should be like.

For the £250-ish area, your only option is to go to a manufacturer who mass-produce. In the UK, try Armourclass in glasgow. The czech smiths are pretty good, but overweight. For a decent mass-produced job though, expect to pay twice that price. For handmade? at the least, triple your budget.

>>564905
actually, I take that last line back -
> For a decent mass-produced job though, expect to pay twice that price

that's inaccurate. for a really good, top-end massproduced sword, expect to pay twice the price.
For the £250 mark, you're getting decent stuff. An armourclass sword at £250-280 is decent - it'll last you a lifetime, it wont rattle, the tang is peined over, rather than a screw like the horribly flimsy £100 wallhangers.

My apologies, the previous comment was a little bit over-critical.


but really, there's a reason that the good stuff is way over that price. Stuff in the £250-ish bracket is good, Armourclass are decent, but just that. if you're an actual craftsman, you see the shortcuts in their work - hilt grips are bound witha cheaper leather, the fuller in a medieval blade is short because its been milled, instead of hand-ground, and so they stop short to avoid risking structural weakening at the tang junction. Makes for a tougher blade, but its not historically accurate. Same goes for the polish, you can see its done on a machine, where a hand-made one will be polished along the axis of the blade, by hand, up to the finest finish. Its those bits that make it great, and its those that make it so much more expensive to do.

once you dip below £200, though, you start really cutting corners badly - cheap castings that are brittle, instead of forged parts, or high-end castings. (I do cast hilts for multiple-run parts. The foundry I use also do castings for the Williams F1 team. that should indicate the quality.). Steels are often cheaper alloys, or worse, Stainless steels that are easier to machine, but useless as real blade steels. Pommels are screwed on, instead of riveted, as its cheaper. its stuff like that which drastically harms the quality, and makes them dangerous to try to use as anything but a decoration hanging on a wall.

>>562924
>ugly
nothing functional is ever ugly

>>564934
True, the proper terms are, "elegant" and "aesthetically pleasing".

>>564908

Bleedin' 'ell, I want to buy one of your swords. They sound beautiful.

Only sword I have cost £60 after haggling... that been said, it wasn't made for £60, it's a late Victorian talwar; proper antique sword. And chuffing dangerous if I ever take it off the wall.

>>565025
ah, that one in the photo's not my work, but an acquaintance of mine, Peter Johnsson. Probably one of the best smiths out there in terms of research and craftsmanship alike. Ones on red backgrounds are mine, though.

I'm just an amateur compared to Peter, but, then again, *everyone* is an amateur compared to PJ. The man's a true artist.

http://www.peterjohnsson.com/category/blades/ is his gallery.

-

and yes, £60 for an antique is fine. its when you get the stainless "battle ready" things with rat-tail tangs and cheap castings. those things are deathtraps if anyone's stupid enough to swing one. "John Barnett" swords, in particular, sold in the UK, really shit heat-treatment, really brittle castings, overweight and plain, simple and ugly. that's the sort of stuff that should be avoided like the plague.

>>563912
Not bud llooks like a sawyers anvil for saw blade work

>>564671
Decent and cheap do not intersect well in sword making

A usable, functional sword could very well be made for prices in the range of 100 Euro or equivalent currency. I say that as somebody who also makes blades for quite some time now. I would and could never do this myself of course.

But shift the place to china or other countries with extremely low wages, forget about historical accuracy in working methods and there should not be that much of a problem. This won't be a piece of art of course and not be comparable to hand crafted work made in the fist world but neither will the price be.

>>565327
>A usable, functional sword could very well be made for prices in the range of 100 Euro or equivalent

please read the reality, posted in >>564901

there is a whole world of difference between "the materials cost about 100" and "this can be made for 100"

you're failing to factor in the cost of a forge itself if its forged, and the tools - those would cost you several hundred, at least, for a decent anvil and a nicely sized forge that you can work stuff bigger than a large knife in a DIY tin can wih some refractory wool is'nt going to do the job when you're making a 4-foot long sword.
You're failing to include a belt grinder/linisher for doing the surface grinding after forging - my one cost me £1,600. a DIY one will set you back £500, and will cost you way more than that in time both to source the parts and to get it working well. Of course, you dont need one of them, you could use elbow grease and sweat, and do it only a few hundred extra hours. Been there myself, you really dont want to try it.
If you're heat-treating your own blades, you need a kiln with electronic thermocouples and the likes- another £1500 there. plus quenching tanks and the likes that will set you back £50-100.

You dont just want, you need the actual experience of handling real swords, otherwise what you make will be a horrible lump - someone making swords who's not studied the real archaeological examples is a like a virgin giving tips on best positions to fuck in. Doing that will set you back hundreds, if not thousands. I frankly dont want to think of how many thousands of pounds I've spent travelling around museums studying.

And lastly and most importantly, you're failing to factor in the time spent on it - and in doing that, you're devaluing every craftsman's time and efforts. If you're playing around in the back garden for a weekend, fine. But dont expect professionals to do the work without factoring the cost of hours in. We like to eat and keep a roof over our heads.

>>564568
Not too much space. A third of what you have. You really want to make a triangle of your forge, anvil and vice. They should each be a stride away from the other.
The smoke will be something like a lengthy barbecue. If you use propane, you will have no smoke. As it has been said before, if you work at night, there is no smoke at night.

>>559884
>>560078 reporting back in.

Pic related- what I did yesterday. I got the forge two weeks ago and planned to put in a chimney and stuff in the garage. I talked to my friend who smiths. He's: fuck it, take it outside and work. So I did. It was snowing real pretty so I filmed it. My friend has an opinion that swordfags are swordfags.

So can I get some opinions on coal vs charcoal?

I intended at first to use charcoal, but after firing my forge for the first time and seeing just how much I used up in a few short hours, I'm starting to reconsider. I'd originally thought charcoal because I can make it myself and I already use it for grilling, so that's a plus. But I've heard that coal burns longer than charcoal and since they seem to be priced almost the same, it seems the more economical solution..but then, no making coal in the backyard or using it on the grill.

The point about making my own charcoal still stands but that's a lot of work given how fast it burns up in the forge so I'm less sure about it now.

>>565346

> failing to read properly.

I have made blades purely with elbow grit and, yes, it is a pain in the ass and I would not do it again, even though it is an experience one should make.

Nowhere did I write about YOU or ME being able to do it for this price.

I speak of slave labour countries and mass producing.

So you are argumenting in a whole wrong direction.

>>565389
If you make it yourself why would it matter how fast you use it up? Coal could burn longer than the sun, but when it stops, you gotta go buy more. Sounds like charcoal. Pic related.

>>565411
apologies if I came over as overly critical.

regarding hand-making without any power tools, all I can say is, its fun to do once. its masochism to do it more than that. (They way I see it, my linisher smply replaces the waterwheel-powered grindstone they'd have used in a cutler's workshop in the 10-15th Centuries, just with an easier-replaced belt.).

But what I was trying to emphasise is that the whole "you can do it for 100£/$/€/camels" line is actually counter-productive to you, to me, to everyone who makes stuff.

As a craftsman, I must assume that you want to avoid being broke and hungry. And to that end, actually saying stuff like undermines all our worth, because people don't differentiate between Rajesh in Mumbai, and Bob in London, in many ways. We shouldn't denigrate their work - I've handled indian weapons from the 17th, 18th, and 19th C, and they are absolutely magnificent, beautiful work. They are no less skilled than you or I. Should their work be given any less respect? Absolutely not.

But because we are a global economy, the value of a handmade object is constantly falling. Why pay £700 for a handmade sword when some poor exploited bastard in bangalore will do the work for £10? Statements that it can be done for so little reinforce the general opinion that such work shouldn't cost - whoever made it.

The real problem is that the guy in India has never seen a real medieval sword, and has no clue how it should feel, how it balances, flexes, reacts. All those subtle details, and all the little bits like engraved marks on blades that make a sword "real" (at least in my books) are what takes that vast amount of time and skill. the problem is that the general public dont know about what it entails. and so they see a "you can do it for $100" comment, and assume that the craftsmen are ripping them off.

Its that which I object to, and disagree with most strongly. Craftsmen, of any field, are horribly exploited in the wages they receive.

>>559884
where are you based, OP, because you might be interested in visiting Greenwich market in London, if you are in the UK. Theres a blacksmith there who works in the open and makes all sorts of stuff. It was absolutely fascinating to watch and I stood there for about 45 minutes watching him work on one occassion. He is there every Sunday I believe.

>>565029
if you're still here can you please link me your site?

>>564292
Some advice, if you have a wire brush make sure that you're regularly scraping the scale off the blade. If too much builds up it will cause pitting in the blade later.

Just a tip.

>>565363
>swordfags
Many lulz have been had, thank you smith bro.

>>565453
I'm going to paste this in to word, beautify it a bit (just the presentation, the wording will remain unchanged), print it, laminate it, and when I go to my workshop tomorrow I'm going to pin it on the wall in the customer reception area.

I've lost count of how many times I've had to explain to people "yes, Hajji probably could make you one for a 10th of the price, but hajji lives in a mud hut - something I'm not prepared to expose my wife and childeren to purley so that you can have custom made furniture for a low price. Seriously, I hate those fuckers... "yeah, I saw this in ikea for £10, so I want you to make me one twice as big, out of ash instead of mdf, to fit these exact dimensions, all hand cut joints - no mechanical fixings, and then I want you to deliver and install it. Being a generous man, I'm prepaerd to pay up to £12.50 for your services". Makes my blood boil, really does. "Offcuts" is the other one. "Why is the timber so expensive?" HAVE YOU ANY FUCKING IDEA HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR AN ENGLISH OAK TO GROW, AND HOW LITTLE FUCKING LIMBER YOU GET OUT OF ONE? "but sureley you must have some offcuts laying around that you wouldn't have to charge me for?" YES BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE TIMBER MERCHANTS WORK. IF I BUY 10 BOARDFEET OF WHITE ELM BUT TELL THEM IM ONLY GOING TO USE THREE, THEY LET ME HAVE THE REST OF IT FOR FREE.

Sorry, getting a little over excited.
>rant over.

>>565453

No insult taken. I can understand you getting emotional over this topic. I tried to talk about this topic on bladeforums a month ago and got misunderstood so hard that I gave up the topic.

Think of it in this direction:

In my opinion, people who debate over how much your product should cost are NOT your customers anyway. They are the ones that say "200 bucks for a kitchen knife from you?!? I could buy one for 2 Dollars and the bargain store!". They will never buy from you. Period. No loss with these people.

Handcrafted one-of-a-time items are a luxury and cost a lot of money. They are only bought by people who have enough money for it and see the worth in manual work and art.

Simply do not try to compete with third world stuff. You can not compete with their prices nor are their consumers people that could be yours.

And people with an IQ above freezing know that a product handcrafted in the US, in Europe or other 1st world areas are in no way comparable in price to third world mass products. And the people who are this dumb wont have money to shell out for handmade anyway.

>>565453

I am in the firm belief that you could make a bargain sword for low cost. Getting the weapon to "feel" right is a question of design, these designs can be simply copied from originals. After that, you divide the work process up into parts that are tiny enough that you can get somebody to learn that part intimately and reproduce it. It is not that different from other crafts. Imagine letting somebody tailor something for you. The tailor in the UK will cost you a lot of money. He will be a professional of his craft, every hour will cost you and his machines have to pay off. Your button down shirt will be a hundred pounds.
Take the work to Bangladesh. They will also have machines that need paying off. But in the end your shirt will cost you two pounds. Sure - it will not be tailored to your exact body but it will be a shirt, will work as a shirt, nobody will look at you strange and it will fit you.

The same with swords. It will not be perfectly fitted to you - it may be two centimetres shorter than would be perfect for your style and bodytype. There will be no fancy decorations and the finish will not be without errors. But it is possible to make a swordwith the right dimensions out of the correct material and a correct heat treatment for the money. If there is no manufacturer atm that does it, it is more a question of a lack of work ethos (lack of quality) or that these people just make a better deal by selling more expensive (even though it could be cheaper and still economic).

Simply do not try to cater to the people that argue about price. Nothing good will come out of it. These people will NEVER buy your work. I
I can of course be more relaxed concerning this - I am in a different profession and there is absolutely no need for me to earn money by making blades - it would be hell because there are so few people today who can apppreciate the worth of handmade items nowadays.

>>565453

If somebody got to know of the stuff I made I was often approached by people who wanted to commission pattern welded stuff and who felt being generous while offering me 50 Euro for it. They were taken aback when I cautiously tried to explain that this does not even cover material costs for me. Try not to discuss - these people have preconceived notions about this that are not about to change.

I once got into a kind of difficult situation where I was approached by my boss about making a twin pair of huge ass, pattern welded, full integral kitchen knives (more like kitchen swords). When I explained him what I was able to do (not a pair but one half-integral kitchen knife in usable dimensions because of the state and equipment of my "shop" *cough* and simply because how much or little spare time I have for this...) he took on a worried face telling me that this was pretty expensive and over the top, as if he could not afford it. And I knew that he made some 10k Euro (after taxes) a month. You can not reason with people like this and nothing good will come out of it.

>>565483
glad it did'nt cause insult.

and its not just myself, but so many of the creative colleagues I have in the same boat in so many fields - historic smithing, jewellers, videogame artists who make billion-dollar games, and get paid a pittance, that it rankles - and as I get older, the more it rankles, because it is an injustice, not to me, but to the creative community of the world, whose work shapes the cultural shape of society, and yet are regularly left impoverished and destitute.

And I agree absolutely with you about the gobshites who say things like "I could get one in the shop for £2". Fuck 'em. I dont even bother dealing with them any longer. I constantly get a guy trying to get me to make training swords for £180, because that's what the guys in the czech republic sell them for. Thanks. Has my name changed to Radovan or Jiri? no. You want decent stuff, buy it from them. Want something that's straight out a museum? come to me then and open your wallet wide...
Nowadays, more and more I'm doing the stuff that the massproduced people simply cannot do - really complex blades, inlaid with maker's marks in latten or gold, "innonodomini" and "benedictus" style inscriptions, peices recreating exact archaeological finds, because those are the customers who actually value them.

I do agree that the guys in mumbai could do it, given a reference template to work from - infact, I know one of the world's best armourers has made a single shirt of maille, exactly for that purpose, to use as a reference against which an indian workshop was to reproduce it, simply because all the stuff that was being sold was shite.

>>565460
Sorry, no, I dont want to advertise here - I feel like that's bad manners if I dont pay to advertise.
But all my Medieval Eating Knives are photographed on red silk backgrounds. If you really want to contact me, you'll find my site easily enough by google imagesearch, in the first page or two. (and to help you out, I'm not Tod's Stuff.)

>>564934
Maybe that's true, but I still don't think it looks pretty.

It definitely does work though. Used it a little today to make some pilot holes on my stump for adding a vise and some brackets for hammer/tongs/etc. I could have used any of the hundreds of drill bits that are scattered in this garage but it did feel pretty cool using the one that I made, as simple as the use was.

>>560969
>Fedora
>That shirt
>No sleeves
>No eye protection
What a fucking tard.

>>565722

to be honest I never use eye protection while forging either. While forge welding the slag will be pushed out in a horizontal way so I can't imagine a way for it splattering into my eyes.

But generally you are right, I should wear goggles and will do so in the future just in case and at least to not give a bad example.

>>565752

the problem is'nt the "usual" one - its that one freak one that pings off, hits the set of tongs on the side of the anvil, and ricochets back and upwards... or something weird like that. that one in a million chance that really should, and conceivably will never happen, but if it does, you're fucked.

I had a one in a million fuckup once, where it went through the side of the safety glasses I had, and embedded in my cornea. Trust me, you do not want a doctor picking peices of metal out of your eyeball with a hypodermic needle scratching your eye. it is seriously unpleasant.

>>562519
heat radiates you stupid fuck

thermal air currants rise

>>565780
Why didn't he just use a magnet to extract it?

>>565780

Oh, but I alread had that!
But it was not forging related.

I walked through a pedestrian area in a town in the netherlands while on vacation. They were renovating a house on the third floor and it seems the were using an angle grinder. One metal particle flew out of the window and decided to hit me in the eye. What are the chances of that happening?!?

>>565783
nicely embedded in the cornea itself. took half an hour of picking away to dislodge it.

>>565800
exactly one in a million. which is why it happened.

Can someome explain to me in the simplest way possible how quenching, tempering, hardness, brittleness and annealing work and relate to one another? It's one of the few things I'm hung up on. No matter how many times I read about each of the above I just seem to turn myself in a circle and end up just as confused.

>>565807
>annealing
Heat to the proper temperature, cool very slowly
>hardening
Heat to proper temperature, cool rapidly.
>quenching
The act of cooling rapidly.
>tempering
Heating a little bit to reduce hardness, but not all the way.

>>564905

do need your contact info, what would a 3.5in ( due to local laws) dagger, "branded" with my last name cost?

>>565807
This post is just going to use bladesmithing as the primary example; I know there are other forms of blacksmithing but it'll be easier to just stick to one for the purposes of explanation

all processes are described here
>>565813
I'm going to explain their relationships.

>Annealing
Makes the steel soft enough to work easily.

>Hardening
Increases the toughness of the steel so that it will hold an edge

>Quenching
Required to harden the steel

>Tempering
comes after hardening; improves the steels structure so it will hold an edge and not be brittle (common problem with hardening).

>>565825
>>565807

On the subject of tempering, different alloys require different temperatures, but here is an example.
>pic related, 5160 steel (commonly found in vehicle leaf springs and such)

>>565831
>>565825
>>565813

Alright, cool

So lets say we're talking about things other than blades. Let's say, a pair of tongs. Do you quench them as you work? Or do you let them cool slowly? Does it matter? I guess you wouldn't want a pair of tongs being soft and warping with useage but wouldn't hardening them make them more liable to snap while handling heavier stock or something?

Does it just depend on the particular tool that you're working on? And what about artwork? Sculptures or things that are purely decorative, does it matter then? What about wrought iron?

>>565858
> Does it matter? I guess you wouldn't want a pair of tongs being soft and warping with useage but wouldn't hardening them make them more liable to snap while handling heavier stock or something?

that's where tempering comes in.

you harden them so they're hard as glass, but brittle. then you temper it, heating it up again, to a lower temperature. they then become a little softer, and more springy, at the expense of some hardness.
how much hardness you want to keep determines how hot you temper it. If. want it to be softer but spring-like, so they bend and than return to shape, you get it till its maybe 350 degrees C. want it to be very hard, you heat it to 250 degrees C. and 300 degrees would give you a bit of both. (as really simple examples.)

Sculptures, its irrelevant. Likewise, wrought iron - that's a completely different metallic structure (more carbon in the alloy), which means that quench-hardening and tempering wont work.

>>565821
Sorry, but I really only do accurate historical stuff, so I'm not the guy to ask for such a knife. its not my field of study.

>>559992
>real life is just like minecraft

>>559998
I'm writing a book on how to rekindle civilization. I'm going to name it something like "A Guide for the Stuck Time Traveler".
But anyways, what I've come to find through my research is that the vast majority of modern technology is not so far out of reach. For example one could make a full fledged computer with knowing nothing more than how to make wire and metal rings, by applying magnetic core logic techniques. That's just one example of an alternative type technology that's obtainable by a less advanced civilization. Hell even carbon fiber can be made by spinning pitch, and composites made from them could easily be done by someone in the 1800s.
Now a big caveat, yes it will be limited by the amount of other people you have with you. There are areas that in order to reach require years of work and effort by teams of thousands, things like integrated processors,but by himself and with the proper knowledge one guy could get to a decent level in his lifetime
I know it might seems impossible to be able get back to where we are today but if you think about it most inventions and discoveries necessary for our modern world were made by a handful of guys. If you are privy to their work you've suddenly removed a majority of the time required for that technology to come about.

>>565899
People at a subsistence level don't have time for that shit. Human beings are incredibly adaptable and innovative, but if you're living off catching fish, your innovations are more likely to be in the field of spear-guns and preservation methods than mechanical computing.

>>565899

like >>565901 said.

I can't imagine a disaster where some people survive but not any library. Ever town and city, school and university is filled to the brim with books containint vast amounts of knowledge. If people leave the level where the biggest problem is food and shelter, intelligent people will have the time to rebuild knowledge.

>>565906
I think it's far more likely to be less of a desire to build a television when there will be nothing on it to watch. If I found myself suddenly in a world without electronics I would strive to maintain that level of peace and calm rather than spend my entire life building a logic computer.
It is a warm fantasy though.

>>564905
>>564908

£250 for a sword? You need better friends. Also talking about quality UK swords and no mention of Binns? Shame

>>565920
That is a most reasonable price for a real sword.

>>565920
Sorry, you misunderstood me - the £250 mark stuff (ie, armourclass) is what I'd consider passable for off-the shelf kit. Not even close to what I'd expect to pay(or be paid) for a handmade blade. Hell, the little eating knives in those pics posted earlier start at about £120. my prices for swords tend to start in the £350 mark for the absolute simplest, plainest stuff. More and more often, I'm quoting four figures for the sort of stuff people come to me for, because they're covered in engraving, inlay, all sorts of little details. About half the swords I make nowadays have things like cross pattee or cross potent on the blades, and inlaid maker's marks from the 13/14/15/16th C workshops of passau or solingen. I'm currently looking at travel down to the british museum to handle the River Witham sword (the viking age one) with the inlaid "LEUTRIL" name and the silver and gold/latten inlaid hilt. - see pic. as you can imagine, that's not the sort of stuff that's cheap.)

Paul's a nice guy, his wide-fullered blades are pretty good. Infact, I have an original Binns auxilliary gladius blade that he made way back in the early 90s sitting in the corner, unmounted. Thing's a brick.

Paul does some lovely pattern welding. Owen Bush and Hector Cole are better in that regard, though. Paul's real talent is doing broad-fullered viking blades, where he does some really pretty stuff for reeanctment. Mike Vickers in St George armoury does pretty good work too, and I love some of the details on Tim Noyes' blades, but he's let down by the hilt grip bindings he does - really disappointing those.
The other one who stands out is Rob Miller, over on the Isle of Skye. he makes some really nice blades as sharps, but is in a totally different price league to what the reenactment market will tolerate.

I'm in a tricky spot, as I started doing reenactment and hema guys' gear, and moved more and more into museum collectors' peices as a result of too much time with the academics.

My school won't have open forge hours until January, so I guess I'll just have to be happy with these and the nasty blisters they gave me until spring semester

>>565983
> forgot pic like an idiot

anyone have resources for getting into black smithing/forging I would one day like to get into cymbal smithing (mostly hammer blanks as actually forging cymbals is more complicated than its worth looking into). Also best place to look for anvils in general? I don't really know where to begin on that one.

>>560946 you could make a titanium sword of you had a carbidizer to deposit carbide onto the bevels of the titanium. Then it would actually hold an edge

>>566253

...why don't you unobtanium guys stop?

Any smiths in here feel like helping me out?

I've got a bunch of scrap steel hanging about, and some spare time. What I've currently got:
>Two 11mm thick RSJ sections
>~3 coil springs from a Vauxhall Omega's suspension

What I want to know:
Does anyone here know the approximate carbon contents of these steels? and would it be possible to forge-weld them into a blade? I'm thinking of making a billhook to test my skill

>>566402

Forget about the rsj section.

The springs may be usable.

Try hardening the material and you will see. I'd always do this before working an unknown steel so to not waste valuable time and effort.

>>566420
I've had some success with knives made from the spring before (not great knives, but that's my skill not the steel).

The reason I ask such a specific question is because I want to make a billhook, which is quite a large piece of steel but with a relatively small cutting edge.

Stupid question but lets say I melted down a bunch of aluminum cans into ingots, what can you actually make from them?

>>566449
aluminium castings. It's quite a fun hobby to be honest, but it can get dangerous

I am looking to get into blacksmithing as a hobby,

I like reusing things that I have from around the house and farm to do things.

I recently replace 1000 roofing nails with screws

The nails look exactly like these

Should I save them and use them to create new things when I learn to blacksmith?

>>566449
you can make an entire machine shop
buy gingery's books
better buy them up soon I think they went out of print last year

I want to make some good sized hatchets :
I would be starting from scratch.
Any recommendations for research etc?

I guess I'm obligated to take these 6's for [s4s]...

>>566666
good quint

>>566666
your a asshole die in a hole

>>566666
>sup satan

Currently I am making an armour, a composite of hardened leather scales and overlappng steel plates.

I am really impressed with the scales. When I am finished, I will thoroughly test all of it and post here.

ATM I am thinking hard about how to harden the plates. I used CK75 steel (1075).

Problems:

I have no hardening setup anymore. My electric oven committed suicide (while electrocuting me in the process) and due to me doing only stock removal for a long time I have no working forge anymore. I shipped in my blades since my oven was broken.

Now I have a dozen plates, 5cm x up to 25cm, 1.5mm thick and profiled to a body.

Anybody with an idea on a cheap setup for hardening my pieces and without them losing their form?

Pic related. The leather scales

>>566942
Are you posting from beyond the grave? Electrocution means death from electricity.

>>566958

Yes, it is Zombie-me.

I've read many texts where people used the word to express that the got an electric shock from something so I educed it does not necessarily means dieing from it. I mean you do not really tie when you say you died of laughter.

But if it always entails death, I stand corrected. I am German, this is not my mother language.

>>566666
Horry fugg :-----D

>>566962
its supposed to mean you died, yes. But yes, lots of people don't use it correctly so the other guy was being a dick.

>>567001
Good to know =)

>>566962 shame on me for all the errors, it was simply too late and I should have been in bed...

But anybody with idead concerning my question with the armour plates?

>>567182
Don't really know thaaaat much about armor at all but is plate normally hardened? I'd think that with large pieces like armor, it's usually cold-worked and that anything harder than maybe spring-temper would make it too brittle to be useful

>>566962
>>567182
> Giving me a shock/got shocked in the process.
> Giving me a zap/got zapped in the process.
> Biting me/got bitten (by the electricity) in the process.

Are all good in that context. "Got an electric shock/I suffered an electric shock" is a more formal way of putting it.

>>567191

Plate armour was hardened, especially in southern Germany. Hardening became out of favor when mass producing in italy became a thing (the time where outfitting common soldiers with plate became feasible, end of the 15th century and later).

My armour will be "fantasy" though without any archeological find. But I want to keep it "theoretically possible", meaning no modern materials and stuff that would have been possible back then.

>>566958
"injure or kill someone by electric shock."
>injur

>>567242
> Correcting someones definition.
> Can't even read the word right.

The word was "electrocution" dipshit.

>>567244
>The word was "electrocution" dipshit.

Actually it was "electrocuting".

>while electrocuting me in the process

What's the best way to buy coal? I hear/read occasionally about people doing group buys and getting it really cheap, like a 200 dollars a ton. I can't find it for less then a dollar a pound anywhere I look and there's no blacksmith group or organization near me to do a group buy with.

>>567278
Personally, I prefer charcoal, which can be made from hardwoods quite easily. A lot of it depends on your area to be honest.

>>559884
What could I forge that would murder, in the most painful way, these pedantfags?
>>566958
>>567001
>>567193
>>567242
>>567244
>>567274

>>567283
Steel baseball bat with roofing spikes welded to it`

>>567278
I would have to say, "read the thread."
>>564025
Given the details you provided with your location, the options you have exhausted in the past, and the hands full of broken thumbs that prevent you from performing a basic Google search, this is the best answer anyone is going to give you.
Be sure to breathe all the fumes.

Nobody with an idea concerning my plates?

in >>566942

>>562302
>dat guild wars loading screen

>>567296
Eh, only thing I can think of is using whatever torch you have on hand and quenching in a suitably large container of water, deformation might still be a problem though.

>>567339

Torches do only work on very small things thats dimnsions are somewhat regular, big, long and thin sheets are not possible to heat with a torch.

The steel I used is for oil quenching, especially in these dimensions, so quenching in water is a no-go that will only produce scrap.

My only idea atm is a huge big fire that I blow air into. The aim would be a small space that is big enough for my armour plates that holds the heat and makes for an even atmosphere and even heat.
But I do not have any idea how to achieve this yet.

>>564893
where?

honestly i'd like to know, everywhere i've looked they've been £300 for something half decent. everything looks mall ninja

>>567356
depends on the size of your torch, eh. I've used a tarmac burner with two burners to heat a piece that was 10 inches long evenly. Just meant I had to pay attention, and "waft" the torch over the workpiece. Took time, took effort, but worked.

>>568896
>half decent
What purpose do swords serve? I can't think of a single reason why anyone (with a penis) would ever want a sword. Sure, great. Get one at the mall and hang it on your wall. Awesome, you're that guy like in the video games.

>>559884
OP: Question about rivets. Cold rivet vs. Hot rivet- which is better for something that shouldn't pivot on a single rivet?
I can't reliably forge weld yet but I would like to join two pieces of 1in. flat bar at a 90º angle.
I plan on making my rivets from found bolts. Dumb?
Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

>>568924
Hot rivets. The slight contraction from hot to cold pulls it a LOT tighter than you'd expect.

>>567356
http://anvilfire.com/article.php?bodyName=/plans/ething_forge/sheet_metal_forge.htm

>>568915
>What purpose do swords serve? I can't think of a single reason why anyone (with a penis) would ever want a sword.

Never heard of being a plain simple collector or things, historical martial artists or a re-enactor?

>>568915
Kill yourself.

>>568915
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7aXtzf7-Lk

>>569786
Very nice. I wish that were more of a sport in the states.

>>569845
take your pick from the 91 clubs listed on this page alone doing just this sort of stuff:

http://www.hroarr.com/organisations-and-clubs/north-america/

>>569845
>>569770
>568915 's face when you proved his point.

>>568915
you know up to 10 yards dependent on skill from the draw a swordsman could defeat a man with any commercially available weapon.

of coarse thats in open ground, tight halls could change it drastically in either favor

>>570005
Look at that delusional samefag.

>>570005
>when you proved his point.

I'm >>569845 and don't lump me in with faggots like >>569770 >>568915 and yourself.

>>570226
But you are a faggot.

>>570019

I know there are some pro-tier smithfags here, so I have a question. I'm the faggot who's hammering together his first batch of pattern-welded by hand, and it's taking me many heats because my arm is pretty weak, but I'm getting there. It's gonna take me say 10 hours per billet of forge time to get them from stacked sheets to blades, working with 1084 and 15n20, will they still be usable as knives after that much carbon loss? My first batch is going to be letter openers and maybe a couple pairing knives so it's not exactly critical, but I wanna know ahead of time if this batch has already been toasted/if it's worthwhile to make this stuff by hand not even from a money/time perspective, but just from a performance perspective

>>569766
To be fair, while I totally respect the craft and artistry that goes into swords, that's sort of why I'm more interested in kitchen knives and EDC folders. I want my shit to be used, not put in a box

>>570285
See, Han did shoot "first" and Greedo didn't shoot at all.

>>560939
If thats not pattern welding, I dont know what is jesus that looks fake as hell.
WHY? It doesn't even look good. I guess Minimalists shouldn't judge other people's stuff as hard.

>>570406
Yes , this

>>570285
thats a movie
real trained "swordmen" won't stand around twirling the blade and showing off long enough for you to even think to get your gun, at that distance a real "swordsman would be just a foot out of striking distance sword drawn about the time the opponent would be reaching for his gun.