/diy/ - Do It Yourself

so, the stopper options are probably 1) mason jars 2) bottle with cork 3) bottle with screw cap 4) bottle with lightning cap

here are some different bottle shapes.

lastly, what paper to use for the label, how to print them, and how to affix them? im thinking we will probably use a laser printer and affix them with casein glue, since that is traditionally used to affix bottle labels (i think) but anyone with any ideas or input please help us out here

I make shine. I put it in mason jars. I laser print labels and glue them on with loctite pray adhesive. It works.

Grated my clientele isn't really high class. My clientele is lower middle class white people and Latinos into Rockabilly.

>>541180
sounds like precisely my crowd.

i was hoping to make the labels a bit more waterproof. any suggestions?

also, do you use a pot still or coil still?

we are thinking about using high temp silicon for a flexible connection in between the boiler and condensate coil as it would be MUCH easier than compression fittings, bending the copper, etc... what do you use/

>>541182
I'm going to assume you're an American, so all of this is based on that presumption.

I get it. You're young, you want to get drunk and maybe make a little money while you're at it but if you do what you're talking about, you will get caught.

The cops will come down on you in a way that is beyond all proportion.

They will be angry, they will have guns, and they will go out of their way to rock your world because they are cunts.

If you've got yappy dogs, count on them getting shot during the bust.

Any property they can possibly associate with the activity will face possible forfeiture to the government, to be sold at auction.

If you catch a federal indictment for anything at all, the conviction rate is in the _high 90 percent range_.

Even if you fight and somehow win, good criminal defense costs tens of thousands of dollars at least, so unless you've just got that money laying around you can look forward to financial ruin.

You have no idea what you're getting yourself into. Please reconsider.

Now on to the distillation stuff, you have no idea what you're doing and that's dangerous. I am more concerned by this fact because you intend to sell this stuff to unsuspecting customers.

You have no idea how much you don't know, and you're far too cavalier about your ignorance.

Stop now.

>>541268
>no smell, no tell, no sell

>>541268
1) im an attorney im well aware of the legal risks
2) we are not selling it
3) we are not young
4) people less educated than us have been making rum for hundreds of years
5) fuck you

anyone with actual advice?

>>541274
good advice. i get it. although we WILL probably tell a few people about it, by giving out bottles as gifts, but all they'll have is a bottle of rum, and we are storing the components to distill separately

>>541182
>i was hoping to make the labels a bit more waterproof. any suggestions?

You can wax them or laminate them. Adhere them with epoxy.

>>541320
You're an attorney on 4chan who knows shit about distilling, metal fabrication and chemistry.

Which is why I'm telling you to stop. You go putting the horse before the cart and you might just hurt people even if you don't wind up in prison.

I don't give a fuck anymore, your ego is so precious it can't stand to listen to the voice of experience? Fine. You have my permission to be ignorant.

>>541357
Isn't the horse supposed to go before the cart?

>>541268

Calm down mr. law christ. Some guy wants to brew some liquor and you act like the feds are going to roll up like an ATF agent that smells an autosear.

People don't give a shit unless you start selling crack.

Since when is this the /ddiy/ board for "don't do it yourself!"

In the USA, you can file for a federal permit to make up to a certain amount of distilled spirits for your own use, 2000 gal. per year, I think.

Stills should only be copper and glass. No rubber unless the metal parts slide a long distance inside each other. I think there is a pamphlet available from the government printing office on the subject.

Since when is this the /ddiy/ board for "don't do it yourself!"

In the USA, people used to be able to get a permit but I just checked a link to the code of federal registry and it looks like they won't give them to anyone not in or going into business. I don't see why being in business should give anyone additional rights but this isn't /pol/.

Stills should only be copper and glass. No rubber unless the parts being joined slide several inches inside each other tightly, as I remember.

>>541414
>Since when is this the /ddiy/ board for "don't do it yourself!"

OP has no idea what he's doing, and doesn't realize it.

Show of dicks, who here has any idea what they're talking about?

I'll tell you what, in the spirit of charity, good will, and keeping you shitheads from killing yourselves, I will mention the titles of a few reputable books you can find in PDF format.

>The Alcohol Textbook 4th edition by K.A. Jacques & Assoc
>"A reference for the beverage, fuel and industrial alcohol industries"

>The Compleat Distiller by Nixon and McCaw

>Making Pure Corn Whiskey, A Professional Guide for Amateur- and Micro-Distillers by Ian Smiley

>Making Gin & Vodka - A Professional Guide for Amateur Distillers by John Stone

>Artisan Distilling by Kris Arvid Berglund, Ph.D.

>Craft of Whiskey Distilling by The American Distilling Institute

While you're at it, go ahead and head on over to homedistiller.org, but LURK AND READ THE STICKIES before you start shitting up the thread. When you start to get a firmer grasp on things, next head to artisan-distiller.net. Again, lurk and read the stickies before you do anything.

Note: I am not advocating any illegal activity. Caveat emptor, etc, etc, don't be faggots and don't hurt anybody by being ignorant.

>>541561
thread, forum, I'm tired and drunk. get off my lawn.

>captcha and onerous

laser printing
kraft-ish paper , or simply old paper
wallpaper glue.

you can also get kraft paper with a shiny side (the kind that gets sticky by making it wet)

>>541567
Am I to understand you're laser printing your own wallpaper?

Srsly?

Distilling quality spirits is an art. Yet any good chemistry teacher should be able to demonstrate distillation to his class. It's a basic technique used in the lab.

>>541886
Sure, that's true in a lab setting with an experienced person.

But in the home, with improvised equipment, there are some things that someone with experience, or who had just taken some time to read a bit would know.

OP hasn't made the effort, so I'm having a hard time believing he's not a 13 year old fuck up.

For instance, he's talking about using a pressure cooker. Pressure cookers seem like a good idea, right? Well, they're not:

#1 The gaskets frequently leak and break down. Ethanol vapors are explosive.

#2 They're usually too small, anything smaller than 5 gallons is kind of a waste of time and effort.

#3 The cheap ones are always made out of aluminum, aluminum will pit, corrode and eventually become a safety hazard.

I could go on.

>>541892
Those are good points!

You can separate alcohol from water by freezing. It's an old Russian technique for making vodka. I don't know what it would taste like with rum. Best not to use a glass container for freezing. The ice expands and might break it.

>>541892
you're such a condescending prick. I'm a 26 year old attorney. I have a lot more experience with related skills than you assume.

I realize aluminum isn't a long term solution. Nor is a vessel of that size, but again, this is a HOBBY. In other words, a PROJECT for FUN. We are not concerned with efficiency, durability, or scale of production, so stop approaching this like I'm trying to open a goddamn professional distillery.

the gaskets are a valid consideration. we will likely find a better longer term solution, if we wish to continue the project, long before the gaskets go bad.

What the fuck is your problem? You could be giving some legitimate advice, seeing as how you are, apparently, an indispensable font of sagacity, but instead you chose to repeat an expanded version of "don't do it."

been through both homedistiller and artisan distiller. understand the concepts.

lastly, not that i not once asked for your fucking advice about how to brew or distill. i asked for opinions about the bottles and labels. so, why don't you keep your opinions to yourself, unless you want to be useful?

>>542190

Well said, that man. Get real tired of naysayers on /diy/. Obviously if something is actually dangerous or incredibly stupid and either never likely to work, or cause a lot of damage, stopping it is a good idea. In this case, it's just a nice chap brewing rum for fun and wondering what to make labels out of.

Incidentially, I have no knowledge on the subject, and therefore will not pretend I do and write a heap of bollocks I made up to sound impressive.

>>541150
You are asking about Authentic Labels. Let's get back to that.

Using a simple household iron you can brown and age paper so it looks old and weathered.

Burn the edges with fire (or the iron) to make the effect more dramatic.

For the glue... idk so I won't guess

>>542190
>you're such a condescending prick.

I am, because you're a fucking idiot.

I don't have to treat you as anything /but/ a fucking idiot.

No, you never asked for advice, which is why when you got an attitude after being told you were doing it wrong, I knew immediately what sort of dumb cunt you were.

Get fucked in the neck.

>>542209
You forgot to fill in your name field Mr. X

>>542224
Namefagging is for faggots.

Well, I think you can go to a library or somewhere related and buy some nice paper. Then take the paper to printing house that have an hp indigo press or something like that. Then print your label and use some glue. You can varnish the label ( use wood varnish or paper varnish) to protect the label. Apply the varnish before glue the label to the bottle

>>542201
thank you
>>542202
thank you
>>542209
all out of troll food, sorry
>>542224
wink wink nudge nudge
>>542227
false
>>542232
hey thats actually a cool idea didnt think to varnish the label. right on man.

>>542241
Yep. The only guy in your thread who's trying to keep you from harming yourself and your friends is a troll.

Good luck, shithead.

>>541380
>>541380
>>541380
>>541380
>>541380

>>542435
lol yea i lold hard at that

>>542244
*sigh* dude how about some real advice.

if we are fermenting a molasses mash for rum, how long ought we let it ferment? its been a week and the gas output has only slowed a bit...should we let it go until it stops bubbling at all or should be stop it earlier so theres more sugar left in the wash?

You can glue the labels on with rubber cement, white glue, mucilage (mule sludge), or any other glue that sticks to paper and glass. You can make them shiny and somewhat waterproof by putting clear adhesive-backed plastic film over them, or you can print them on shiny paper.

I got some metal film transfer coating from an office supply store. The idea is to print with a laser printer or dry toner copier, then put the film on top of the print and run it through again. The metallic coating sticks to the print. It would be nice if you wanted some gold, metallic blue or metallic red in the label but it's a pain. I usually just use an clothing iron to transfer the metallic film. Works for me.

>>541561
Congratulations on being the biggest faggot I've seen on 4chan all day

For a label. Take whatever kinda paper you wanna use print the label on it then dab a wet tea bag over it, makes it look aged, for rum IDE put small burns around the edges of the label too, make it look like legit pirate hooch. I suggest corked bottles as well

>>541320
>1) im an attorney im well aware of the legal risks

A lawyer with no respect for the law....who'd a guessed?

>4) people less educated

Can use google. You can't?
Look up "old rum labels", click on images, bring picture to printer...done.

>>543734
goddamn what happened to /diy/? I can use google, which mostly produced a bunch of pictures of labels. I don't need pictures of labels, I can use photoshop and already have a label designed. note that i asked about:
1) paper
2) printing (laser/ink/stamp/offset/etc)
3) ink
4) glue
5) bottle type

so fuck you with your "google image" advice. you try finding information germane to "affixing paper labels to glass bottles in an historically accurate way." Jesus Christ.


secondly, where the fuck does everyone get the idea to equate lawyers with Judge Dredd? We don't have some insane allegiance to the law as it is currently written. In fact, my state's oath of attorney does not even include a statement to uphold THE LAW, only JUSTICE.

Laws can be wrong, they can be unjust, and they can be changed. Microbrewery is legal, guns are legal, pot is legal (in some places, soon everywhere), and I can smoke, drive a car (aka rolling death machine), and enlist in the military where i get to kill other people, but I can't make fucking LIQUOR IN MY GARAGE?

Fuck that noise. There is no sufficient public policy justification for the criminalization of small-scale liquor distillation. I have more respect for the law by hoping to make it what it ought to be than you do by blindly obeying it.

>>543765
>pot is legal
not federally, and federal regulation is 'more strict' in this case thus trumping state law.

...

tell me how you're a lawyer or even a college graduate again--a history major

>>543765
>"affixing paper labels to glass bottles in an historically accurate way."

Yeah, that really matters to people that would drink home-made hooch.

You should google "18th century adhesives"

>We don't have some insane allegiance to the law as it is currently written.
You seem really butthurt trying to defend unethical behavior.

>>544025
unlawful =/= unethical

>>544030
Yes it does. Ethics are subjective. In a deontological system (rule based ethics) something is unethical if it breeches a rule. Laws a rules. Breaking a law is unethical.

This is trollbait.

holy shit diy has worse add than b:

>>543928
Uh, yes, I am an attorney, and your broad misstatement of the relationship of federal and state law illustrates your inferior understanding of this topic. The "strictness" of federal legislation is not the only factor at play, and federal law does not simply "trump" state law. The states still exist, as do their laws, and if a state passes a law legalizing the consumption of marijuana, then marijuana "is legal" in that jurisdiction as far as said jurisdiction is concerned. The fact that consuming it simultaneously violates a separate and distinct federal law is moot. Additionally, the priority of federal law over state comes not from "strictness" but from the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution, which invalidates any state law in conflict with federal law. However, in practice, federal agencies rarely arrest or prosecute individuals for minor possession.

>>544025
Not butthurt, not defending unethical behavior.

>>544030
Correct

>>544062
You commit such obvious and glaring logical fallacy that I can't even believe I'm pointing it out:
a: something is unethical if it breeches a rule
b: laws are rules
(breaking a law = breaking a rule - this is the fallacy)
c: breaking a law is unethical

Laws ARE rules, but they are not the SAME rules that govern ethics. Your pedantic understanding of deontological ethics is laughable. Deontology refers to a sense of DUTY, implying an understanding of right and wrong, or obligation. In fact, deontology frequently finds itself at odds with the law, as the law is not itself deontological. Much of our laws are pragmatic or consequentialist.

For example, deontology might lead us to act out of duty to do no harm. Thus, we arrive at rules and laws against battery, rape, and murder. However, laws have (or have had, historically) provision for the death penalty. To a deontological mind, operating under the above stated rule, the death penalty is not justifiable, as it violates the rule.

>>544629
forgot my name, also sort of ran out of space but im tired.

basically, breaking a law is only unethical if YOU think its unethical to break laws. you said yourself that ethics are subjective, but then you attempt to attach an objective definition of ethical behavior to your rebuttal.

your argument fails prima facie.

>>544629
>starts with ad hominem
>All laws are rules, not all rules are laws
>implying that there is merely one deontological system of ethics.
>implying that you have an understanding of ethics beyond Ethics 101 at your local Uni
>Implying reading Kant and looking up philosophy on wikipedia make you an authority
>Not having an understanding that you can manipulate ethics to make any action moral or immoral
>taking troll bait
>poorly arguing against a highly intoxicated non-native English speaker.

Please tell us all about how you got your Bachelors in philosophy and went on to be a successful lawyer who wants to make shit quality rum in a makeshift still to sell to people just because you want to enact your life long dream of being a bootlegger.

Fucking Amerikans

Hah. This fucking thread is still alive.

>Guiz, guis, how is labble form?

Seriously OP, come clean. You're just here for a wank. Isn't it true that you never had any intention of actually doing anything besides talk?

>*sigh* dude how about some real advice.

You're so smart you don't need it, apparently.

Smart ass lawyer and old hand moonshiner, all flummoxed by how to stick paper to glass, doesn't understand why /diy/ won't wipe his ass for him.

My advice is and will remain to get fucked in the neck. Both sides.

>>541150
ok real help here -
the first step is to realize that the vast bulk of all moonshine was sold sans label in mason jars or repurosed bottles such as coke/milk/liquor cottles or in jugs. Corn cobs were the most common form of stopper used as cork is imported from Spain.

If you want a label then google images in your friend, google antique absinthe or rum and you'll find that the majority of labels were simple and plain with no metaliz fancy inlays and only 3 to 4 colors, alcohol being thought of as a commodity, not as a sinful secretive magic drink that prohibition made it out to be.

Paper was similar to waxed newsprint, and you'd be hard pressed to find any of that today for want of a demand. Latex glue was the most common fixant and todays is sold as the little brown jar of rubber cement from your school days.

When it comes to making a clamped top still you WILL need a pop valve like on a steam engine that released at 5 psi, only so much as an once more or you have a bomb. Most brewers used the centuries old funnel shaped cap that gravity holds on.

Use a stainless steel stock pot as your kettle and copper AC tubing as your worm. Toss out the first half cup on runnings and you'll be fine.

>>544629
>You odn't know anything about strictness of law jurisidiction, blah blah blah.
...
>Finally admits that yet pot is illegal and the feds could bust you for it anytime they feel like it.

Also, the ATF will fuck you in the ass for fucking around with selling distilled liquor. They do _not fuck around_

>>544649
there was no ad hominem. i addressed your argument the whole time. you know what nevermind this is so far off topic its not even funny anymore.

However, i will point out again, that we DO NOT WANT TO SELL IT. Are you fucking blind?

Sorry if you're jealous about my success. I'm pretty happy with my life. English major, not philosophy, but otherwise pretty close so good job.

>>544717
not here for a wank, i was asking for legit advice. we're already fermenting, we are doing something. the still is made and tested. waiting for the rest of the sugar to get fermented, probably distilling this weekend.

>>544724
thanks for the input. i have no questions about the design of the label. they will be simplistic single color. what about this waxed newsprint now? my understanding is that casein glue was commonly used to bond paper to plastic...have you used it before?

we're on target with the still, thanks. we have all those features, we are being very safe. using electric heating element several feet from the condenser, separating distillate into 250ml portions, etc.

>>544755
whatever man go back to church then

>>544649
>>544755
this is for you two since you're so obsessed with me selling the liquor.

>>541320
>2) we are not selling it

lastly, we are not making moonshine (ie, from corn) we are just making rum. which for a majority of history was not an illegal substance. we are not trying to duplicate shitty mason jar moonshine bottles, we were going more for a legitimate production look.

eh, this is why I make wine. Considerably less fuss to worry about.

>>544914
they don't care that its rum or shine or whiskeybor vodka. They care that its distilled. This is a liquor lobby thing.

if you want to make distilled spirits you need a license. Otherwise you literally need to build your still up in the Ozarks under cover of trees and hope they don't fly a helicopter over it while its cooking.

maybe, maybe, if you keep it as things you give away, like Christmas gifts, and keep the still hidden in your house, they won't care.

that's a pretty big risk for making swill, because it will be swill for years and years. Maybe just make a small batch before you commit to it and realize how hard it is to make rum that doesn't taste awful.

>>541380
lolol

>>541357
10/10

>>542446
if you don't know the answer to that you don't have enough experience. You have to crawl before you can walk.

Brew some high gravity beers and age them with burbon soaked wood chunks. Much less hazardous and you'll learn a lot. Not to mention legal vs illegal.

Not the other guy you've been back and forth with, but your responses show you're pretty clueless about the whole deal.