/diy/ - Do It Yourself

Are you 9 years old, a woman, or have you been living under a rock? They've been that way for close to 100 years.

>>482339

When they are cut they are 2x4. Back in the day they would cut them and dry them and that was it. Now they plane them so they are smooth, take paint and other shit better and it removes some imperfections that might otherwise make the timber unusable. They take 1/4th of an inch off each side.

Business cutting corners. The planing excuse is a blatant lie. There's no way you need to shave that much off to smooth the wood.

>>482358
That doesn't make any sense.

Why would they just cut them half an inch larger each dimension so that it would still be 2x4 inches after planing? Like this, there would have been a time period where there were two kinds of 2x4s, planed and unplaned, which require different specifications in designs utilizing them.

You CAN buy true 2x4 from a lumber yard. Do that some time and note how rough and uneven it is. Better yet visit a saw mill some time to understand just how lumber is made.

>hurt durr conspiracy

>>482369
It doesn't have to make sense, it's what they do. By now if they actually started making boards the actual measurements it would change building planning and costs.

>>482369
then they would have to call it 2and a half by 4 and a half.
a "true "one inch deck board is call five quarter board.
a 2 by 10 is really 1.5 x 9.25
Think of it like horsepower rating on a car.
the cars that are sold as 300 hp, really only have like 220hp at the wheels but 300 a the crank.
same with plumbing, pipes will be sold as 1/2 inch, but that's inner diameter. the outside is more like 5/8.
It's kinda like the sky, it's not really blue, sometimes it's black, or red or cloudy.


Nominal vs dimensional lumber or some shit.
Rough lumber (pre planed) is nominal, meaning truly 2x4

>>482389
That doesn't answer the question of why they're misrepresenting the dimension of their products and the discrepancy with the dimensions of older wooden beams.

>>482403
Because, that's why. It's why a quarter pounder isn't a quarter pound when you buy it. It's why you buy one and get one free instead of getting one at half price. It's why people briefly called a good situation "the cat's ass" when nothing good ever came from a cat's ass. It's why The 99¢ stores now charge 99.99¢. It's why keyboards no longer have a ¢ button. Some shit is just the way it is because somebody decided.

It is what it is man. I personally don't like being charged in nominal board feet for planed lumber but it's not as if it would be any cheaper if the labeling was different.

>>482339
>OP's first time buying a 2x4
So cute.

Semi-related, both of these toy horses were made from a single 2x4.

>>482540
needs a second coat...

I have always just mesured the stuff my self and most project I do I by a little more then I think I need and cut it down my self. I even did that when all I had was a hand saw.
Then I used what was left over for fun/hobby stuff.

>>482540
That unicorn is an accident waiting to happen. Also, I hope it dried better than it looks in that picture - it's all uneven and you can see the brush stokes.

I'm mostly kidding though, I do like them.

>>482339
Judging by the level of intelligence in the comments I see here, all of you must be about 12 years old and lived your childhood so far playing warcraft and games on your apple ipods.

Wood is harvested at many locations, at many stages of development. It is kiln dried to withdraw the moisture and to stabilize the wood. Wet wood does not bear loads well.

After it is dried, it is planed to a standard shape/size called nominal, which is the 1.5" by 3.5" size in standard lengths of 6, 8, and 12 feet. This is not done to cheat the buyer, but to provide a product that is standardized for ease of use wherever in the country it is used. As for the arrogant ass that said it is business cutting corners, you are so typical of those people who, when encountering something they don't understand, immediately state it has no redeeming factors and is representative of the corporate greed running rampant these days. This is done in a hope of igniting a passion in the viewing audience that will quench the desire to gather the facts make them disregard the real reason for it. It isn't always about some businessman trying to steal from you.

It's also clear that none of you have ever made anything from wood. I pity you all: you have no idea about the pleasure of creation and seeing something you first brought forth in your mind come to be real. It also is a very meditative process that clams and soothes one.

>>482403
>That doesn't answer the question of why they're misrepresenting the dimension of their products and the discrepancy with the dimensions of older wooden beams.

What are you, some socialist ass-wipe that sees the world only as yourself and those looking to cheat you?

>>482540
1920' called, they want dem wooden horses back pronto.

>>482678

When the wood is cut it is 2x4. When it is dried it shrinks. Then they plane it to remove the rough texture. This discourages insects, makes the wood easier to handle (less splinters), makes it paint and stain better, removes surface imperfections and can help straiten out a slightly warped board. By the time its in your hand its 1.5x3.5.

When you order a burger the patty is 1/4th of a pound. It is then cooked, which pulls out the juices and shrinks the patty. By the time it is in your hand it is less than 1/4th of a pound.

When you buy pants, if the sizing is accurate, and they are size 30 they will have a 30 inch waste. Wash them and they will mostly likely shirk. By the time they are on your ass they will be less than 30 inches.

You cars horsepower can be rated two major ways. Gross, and net. Gross is a plain engine with no accessories rated at the drive shaft. Its bullshit basically. Net has accessories so its closer to the engines true horsepower but it too is bullshit because it doesn't take into account the rest of the drivetrain. If your engine is rated at 200 hp, by the time the rubber hits the road it can be somewhat less than that if it was rated as net or significantly less than that if rated in gross.

>>482678
Now I don't claim to be a professional carpenter, nor do I profess that I have the same passion for woodworking that you do, but when I buy a board and specify that it have been cut to two inches by four inches, it better goddamn well be two inches by four inches, international standardization be damned.

Let's look at a hypothetical situation: You buy lumber to build a ladder for mounting your very tall horse. Upon measuring the lumber yourself, you find it was not cut to the specification you requested. Because of this, you cannot build a ladder that is both safe and high enough for you to mount your horse.

>>482744
That's why a real carpenter buys over size and cuts to fit. Never trust someone else to measure and cut if it's important to you.

>>482765
>what is a precut

>>482744
except, as a real carpenter, I would never be such an aspie to need nominal 2x4 for my wooden ladder to mount a horse. If dimensional 2x4 wasn't strong enough for my fat ass, I would just but dimensional 2x6 and use that, and then go home and drink beer and troll this thread.

OP is the only person who has a problem with how lumber is sold.

Its 2013, the world is out of cheap old growth timber.

because its 2x4 S4S.

which is sanded four sides. rough cut 2x4's dont have that little acronym next to the name.

wait, you mean to tell me a 2x4 isn't 2 inches by 4 inches? Is it measured in centimeters?

>>482868

>>482868
When they sand/plane the board it removes so much that you are left with 1.75"x3.75" usually. "Rough cut" lumber will be unplaned and unsanded and be exactly 2"x4".

>>482885
>1.75"x3.75"

>>482885

>>482339

And... I have learned something today.

>yfw half of /diy/ thought a 2x4 was really 2x4

>>482907
maybe it's because they are labelled "2x4" and if any other industry in the world labelled something "2x4" and actually gave you 1.75x3.75 then you could fucking sue them

>>482908
>still thinks they're that
10/10

>>482908
>1.75x3.75

>>482908
said the fatass eating a mcdonald's quarter pounder.
think next time

I knew the true size of a 2x4, however the only 2x4s I've come into contact with have 4 rounded edges. Why's this?

>>482928
since they're not milled to be dead square or straight any sharp corners would be a pain when using them for wall construction maybe ? that's what they're mostly used for i think ?

Trees are getting smaller. Cutting, replanting, and recutting. They aren't as big as old growth trees. So cutting down on the measurements of a piece of lumber helps to saw more sticks out of a log. And it's not some Jew conspiracy you fucks, if they cut the lumber wider they would just charge you more for it. You should be thankful that the modern 2x4 helps to keep your costs down.

>>482680
No need to get political here. I was just pointing out a deceptive business practice. I'm actually far from being a socialist.

>>482943
implying they arent using full retard fuel tech still. fuck you it is the jews and the masons

>>482730
Did you get that answer from google, like most of the people here? Have you worked with wood before? Cutting wood won't produce splinters if the blade is sharp. What you'll get with a very rough cut is a fuzzy and hairy but harmless surface. There's no need to shave off that much wood to remove the rough texture.

>>482339

2x4 really did used to be 2" by 4". They aren't now. For whatever reason you want to attribute to it.

>>482943

Yeah, no. When they cut the lumber from the tree it is still 2x4, so they aren't "saving" wood or anything like that. Its just most people buy surfaced (planed) 2x4s instead of rough cut 2x4s, that is why they are smaller. Theres a reason why everyone goes with surfaced timber, its much easier to work with.

I don't see why anyone is butthurt over this. Its not like 2x4 is some magical number of epic strength and awesomeness. Its a number someone pulled out of their ass two hundred years ago as power sawmills made cutting lumber evenly practical. Even so, stick framing is a recent thing. Back in the day, if lumber was the building method used, they'd go with post and beam framing. That shit was all over the map in terms of timber size cause everything was either hewn down from logs or cut with a pit saw by hand.

>>482339
It's like buying flat screen HDTVs. You buy a X-inch HDTV expecting to be X-inches diagonal screen size. Turns out it's half-an-inch less.

ITT: trolls and morons abound.

I took a picture of my old cats ass. It looked like jesus

>>482860
Not sanded, surfaced. s2s (common way to buy wood) means surfaced 2 sides

Fuck this thread is retarded, prune it already...
As someone who works with wood often and understands how it is sold this thread is dumb.

HOWEVER
I am a little (very) drunk right now, so if anyone else has qustions bout how wood is sold (btf etc.) Leave your questions here and I will answer them tomrrow (or someone will probably answer them before that)

FYI - 1BF = 12"X12"X1"

>>482339
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf

>Declining markets for lumber have been a source of grave concern for the lumber industry and the Forest Service. The industry has studied its marketing problems and concluded that thinner sizes of boards and dimension are desirable.

>Today’s close competition within the lumber industry and between lumber and other building
materials has tended to emphasize price over quality. A smaller size means a lower price for
a piece of lumber to do a specific job

>When surfacing at the mill became common practice, it was readily apparent that the
reduction in weight meant a saving in freight charges.

Yup, it's a conspiracy.

>>482968
Then how come 2x8s and above are 3/4" less wide than they are called? Do you magically need to plane off more width on a 2x12 than you do on a 2x4? No, it's because they saw the wood narrower to begin with you tard.

>>483074

You are getting gyped bro. Where I'm at a 2x8 is 1.5x7.5, not 1.5x7.25.

>>483009
That's not what the OP is talking about. That is meaning actual smaller sizes that are advertised as being smaller. They don't advertise a 2x4 S4S and have it actually be 1x4. Instead they advertise the 1x4 as 1x4 S4S. When it is advertised as "rough" or "rough cut" it will be exactly the original size and won't have the S4S on the end.

S4S means lumber that is dressed/surfaced on all four sides (USA)
S2S means lumber that is dressed/surfaced on two sides (USA)
D4S means lumber that is dressed/surfaced on all four sides (Australasia)

>>482339
>>482369
>>482403
>>482744
>>482868
>>482902
>>482904
>>482906
>>482908
>>482944 (deceptive =/= standard for a century)
>>482952 (only unfinished, which you can still get)
>>483074


You're gonna shit when you buy some plywood.

You learn something new everyday. I figured they were just called 2x4 because 1.5.x3.5 is too fucking much to say.

>>482787
>what is doing it wrong.

>Go to lumberjard
>All the dimensions are in cm and mm
>Get a piece of wood that's exactly the right size
>Everything went better than expected

carpenterfag here, lol'n hard

>>482339
>the guys' faces at the lumber yard when
I found it out the hard way nearly a decade ago, too. However, you have now been initiated and can laugh at other newbies who make the same mistake.

>>483333
> what is currently used by every contractor and builder to frame every house. ever.

sure is retarded in here

>>483333
Precut studs are common.

>make wood smaller than its called
>Americans

>>483431
It is designated though. "S4S" sanded 4 sides.

>>483430
Yeah, precut to 3.5x1.5.

>>483436
Having an official designation doesn't imply quality.

>>483445
No, but it implies a standard.

>>483444
Precut to 8' minus the width of two 2x4s so when you put caps on both ends the wall is 8' high.

>>483445
>implying someone is implying something they never implied

Implication complications

>>483444
>doesn't know what a precut is

>>483431

The wood shrinks.

>>483638
so does your penis

Here's a chart for all the goobers in the thread who aren't familiar with cut lumber dimensions.

http://www.tollesonlumber.com/content/view/45/82/

Heaven help you all when you start working with Nominal Pipe Sizes which have sizes that are also nowhere near the actual dimensions of the pipe.

>>483665
Longer list
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/softwood-lumber-dimensions-d_1452.html

>>483665
>Heaven help you all when you start working with Nominal Pipe Sizes which have sizes that are also nowhere near the actual dimensions of the pipe.
But muh schedules..

Our boss buys "rough cut" alder that we plane to size. They show up actual 2 x whatever. We have to plane each side twice taking off a 1/16th at a time to get the board totally cleaned up. May be the Sam with construction lumber

>>483665
Or steel beams a 8" beam that is 67 lb/ft is actually 9"

>>482952
>2x4 really did used to be 2" by 4". They aren't now. For whatever reason you want to attribute to it.

No. they didnt. Even way back in the day the measurement of 2 x 4 was the mill cut, BEFORE DRYING. Wood shrinks as it dries. The only difference now is that we have an official standard for sizes.

>>482730
that's not "gross" and "net". that's "bhp" for brake horsepower and "whp" for wheel horsepower.

>>482339
Thank you USA, you amaze me once more

>>484171

See, this is how you can tell when people are fucking retarded. Both the SAE gross (pre-1972) and SAE net ratings, which is what you see on the vehicle spec sheets for a car sold in the US, are from the engine alone. That is to say when its NOT IN A FUCKING VEHICLE. BOTH measure the horsepower from the crankshaft, not the wheel. They don't even include power losses from the transmission in those ratings. Hell, the gross rating even allowed the exhaust system to be chopped off to squeeze that much more HP into the rating. Power ratings at the wheel can be quite a bit less than at the crankshaft. Outside the US several different standards are used, depending on country. This is a US board so we use US ratings. This is a conversation about the difference between whats on the tin and what you get, hence my topic of SAE ratings.

That said, if you don't even understand the terms being used, don't chime into the conversation.

>>484185
What's funny about OP's post is that this is a simple piece of cultural literacy everyone older than about 10 is expected to understand. A commercial 2x4 started as 2" by 4" but was planed/sanded flat, making it smaller. You just know that, the same way you know you don't put chocolate in your carburetor.

>>483665
The nominal pipe size is the internal diamerer of extra heavy wall pipe (sometimes called schedule 120) rounded to a convenient fraction. External sizes are constant regardless of schedule to eliminate the need for different taps and dies for each pipe wall thickness.

>>482678
>I pity you all: you have no idea about the pleasure of creation and seeing something you first brought forth in your mind come to be real. It also is a very meditative process that clams and soothes one.

Wow. Carpentry elitism. I guess there's a first time for anything.

>>484653
you fail to remember that JESUS was a carpenter, and a jew

>2x4
>not 90x45

>>484656
mhmmhmhmmhm...

hehehehe...

huehuehueheuehueheuheu..

ahahaahaah

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAH

go to /g/ if you want to try to be an elitist... but you wouldnt be there. /DIY/ implies I may not know what the fuck I'm doing, but you'd better believe I'm doing it myself.

>getting paid to work hard
>2013

enjoy your HS dropout lifestyle labourer

>>484689
>enjoy your HS dropout lifestyle labourer
britbong/europoor detected

But otherwise you've got a point.

>>484689
>being this upset