/diy/ - Do It Yourself

Wont cost much, you can do it yourself in a few hours. Real easy shit, just go pick up the tiles.

>>476932
Since I don't see you having all the tools for a job like this. Ring up a contractor and ask him for the estimate.

>>476936
How can he remove all the tiles and cabinets, install wood or apply concrete plaster and retile it in a few hours? Magic?

Steps to repair properly:
1. remove everything on the floor (including tiles)

2. Reinforce the subfloor (probably by adding another layer of 3/4" plywood or OSB on top of what's already there)

3. Re-tile and replace cabinets., etc.

Alternate fix:
1. Pull up tiles
2. Put down lino or something else that wont crack because your sub-floor flexes too much.

It's not really a small job but if it's a really awesome house, it might be worth it. You could put the job off for a while too. It's not like a few cracked tiles will prevent you from using the kitchen; they just look shitty and collect dirt.

>>476945

This is a good start, but you aren't going to solve the issue with only adding a layer on top.

He'll probably need to add a girder at the halfway point of the floor joists' existing supports. Not an impossible job for a diyer that knows what they're doing, but OP would probably be better off hiring someone.

Another thing is OP might want to check for termite damage, if he hasn't already. it probably isn't termite damage, but you don't want to buy the house without being sure. They can cause issues like this, and any reputable termite company will come out and do an inspection for free. Your home inspector very well might be competent at looking for termites but not all are. You'll want to take care of this before putting an offer in; while minor to moderate termite damage isn't necessarily a dealbreaker, you'll want to factor the cost of repair into what you'll pay for the house.

>>476932
Well as far as replacing a few cracked tiles, it won't be any more expensive than buying a few tiles and some matching grout (which may be difficult), shimming the uneven floor, and the time involved in this project. However, a bad sub floor could be a far a more serious issue (you're house could be settling and/or you could have a bad foundation, which means you're fucked) . You're going to have walls and ceiling cracking, possible radon issues, support beam cracking / separation, uneven floor.

Replacing the cracked tiles will be hard to match.. and I bet they will crack too over time.

The house doesnt have termite problems, its in Maine, Im pretty sure that problem doesnt exist yet in Maine.

Im not going to DIY this, but am asking here because at least one of you must have done this job DIY before and knows the steps.

Adding another layer of wood or subfloor will raise the tile a half inch or so.. that wouldnt be very good looking where it blends into wood floor :(

Actual pic attached, the cracks are all over.

>>477018
Add a girder? Are you autistic?

I've seen this cracking many times. It is caused by lack of good underlayment and crack isolation, just as the inspector indicated. What needs to happen is the tile is to be chiseled off and taken down to the subfloor, which in this part of the world is usually ship lathe. Next, put some fiber or mesh reinforced cement board over the subfloor and attach with screws. Then you should tape the seams with fiberglass mesh and apply a skimcoat of thinset mortar and let dry. Then you are ready to set some new tile.

>>477058
As for the final floor height, it all depends on what is actually underneath the tile. If there's just subfloor, you may be left with workaround solutions to match the hardwood height. These include using smaller 2x2" porcelain tiles, or similar, which tend to be thinner and also using the mortar mfgr's thinnest suggested application of thinset. You could also use the thinner 1/4" fiber-reinforced cement board, but this product is not meant for crack-resisting strength and is really to only be used for providing a proper adhesion surface for the tile.

>>477058

In many older homes (depending upon the area) the floor joists are 2x10, 2x8, or sometimes even 2x6. They work fine when the flooring on top of them is what was originally intended: usually hardwood, linoleum, vinyl (or another flexible flooring.)

What they do not do well is hold tile--or even worse, stone--without flexing and causing cracks. Adding another layer of underlayment or some cement board will help, but if the issue is the floor joists it won't solve it. To fix that you either need to replace the floor joists (obviously not a good solution, or even feasible) or decrease their span with an extra girder.

I probably should have replaced "but you aren't going to solve the issue with only adding a layer on top" in my post with "there's a good chance you aren't going to solve the issue with only adding a layer on top." Because I'm not certain of the situation OP has. What he should do is find out what he has for floor joists, and go from there. If he has undersized floor joists and only replaces the tile and subfloor, he'll end with cracks again in 6 months to a year.

>Are you autistic?

Please don't bring that crap onto this board.

hey op, carpenter here
there's literally 10 or more different scenario's which could cause this problem, from joist tails to improperly faulty thinset.
If there's no obvious structural defect (the inspector would of caught anything obvious) and its just the 2 tiles, just replace them.

When you remove the tiles, drill a little hole in the to check its the proper thickness and add some screws in that particular section.

This happened in a rental unit of mine and I replaced the tiles 4 years ago and it hasn't recurred.

I can go through the other 10 or so scenario's if you want, but in all honesty if the tile break again, just tear em up and go with vinyl like someone other anon said. Its not worth the cost or headache for an amateur to do more.

OP dont be a bitch. Just replace all the tiles and subfloor by yourself

>>477153
you sound like a half assed carpenter "Whatever its Good enough"

>>477170

I'm >>477141 >>477018,

He's right with

>I can go through the other 10 or so scenario's if you want, but in all honesty if the tile break again, just tear em up and go with vinyl like someone other anon said.

and >>476945.

Tile cracking isn't an issue if you replace it with more flexible flooring, and while it can sometimes indicate structural problems elsewhere, there can be enough movement to crack tile without it being a problem larger than the cracking.

My advice applies to the OP replacing the tile with the same. If you're gonna replace the tile with new tile (or natural stone, especially) then get it right the first time, and in older homes that usually means a bit of work in the crawlspace/basement. I've seen too many times people that have replaced tile only to have to replace it again, sometimes multiple times or with really expensive stone. It's a shame.

>>477170
I don't think you understood the post

>>477051
sup OP. time to listen up. that tile's cracked. that means that the subfloor is shit, and most likely just plywood. in new homes, DIYers place a layer of wonderboard over the subfloor (its like cement board) this reinforces the tile when glued, and thus the tile does not crack. so you have a few options:

1-remove all the tile with a hammer (your subfloor may be damaged and would possibly need replacement, lay wonderboard down and tile.
2-same as one, except you would also remove the cabinets and island
3-tile OVER existing tile. this is the worst route and will likely lead to an uneven floor.


I recommend you just start pulling out the tile and go from there.

>>477051
Termites exist in Maine its just rarish. What town in Maine? I'm a Mainer myself.

>>477215
>sup OP. time to listen up. that tile's cracked. that means that the subfloor is shit, and most likely just plywood. in new homes, DIYers place a layer of wonderboard over the subfloor (its like cement board) this reinforces the tile when glued, and thus the tile does not crack. so you have a few options:

Wonderboard (or Durock, or Backerboard, or any other brand of cement board) does not reinforce the subfloor. No type of cement board is stronger or more rigid than plywood. Since they're reinforced with fiberglass (or in the case of the Backerboard, cellulose) they ARE more resistant to cracking than a skim coat of thinset mortar, and it IS a good idea to use concrete board instead of just a skim coat, but that's about it.

If OP is going to go the route of replacing his tile with tile, he should at the very least be adding additional subfloor with proper adhesive before putting down cement board or he just wasted a bunch of time and money.

And he's sure the foundation is totally fine?

>>477018

Girders typically are only needed if you are some obscene setup. I have 2x10's spanning like 20 feet in my den, in the middle of the floor there is some decent bounce (not bad, but enough to notice when you walk across it just right), but it's all hardwood so it's not really an issue.

I'd go with a doubling of the joists. It'd be easier for a DIYer to do and on a little more expensive material wise. If he has 2x10's now either go with 2x10's if possible or drop back to 2x8's and use a combination of construction adhesive and screws to fasten the two.

If did this in a bath I stripped out and put my subfloor inset between the joists and then added by cement board on top. It's damn solid.

I have the same problem, OP. With mine I noticed that the cracks are exactly at 8 foot intervals and exactly 4 feet long and I have three of them in my kitchen. I assume that there is nothing between the subfloor decking (8x4 sheets of whatever they used). However, it's been the least of my worries in this house. I bought it 3 years ago and since it was built in the 1860's, there are many other much more pressing issues.

I'm sure that I will get to it someday, but honestly, you might just be able to live with it for a while if you reallly love the house that much. I'm not saying that it's not worth fixing, just that it shouldn't stop you from buying.

By the time I get to mine, I'll be ready to gut the whole kitchen and start over anyway...

>>476932
First off, the inspector said it had a bad subfloor which tells me nothing that we can't see.

Is this house sitting on a slab or is there a crawlspace?

If slab, you're getting deflective cracking which basically means cracks in them slab are transferring thru the tile.. I've seen this a lot in homes on slab. What you can do is tear it up and install an isolation membrane that will not raise height and if the foundation cures/moves (and it will) the membrane will stretch to prevent the cracks transferring into the tile.

If its a crawlspace you really could have a few issues underneath, the joists may been spanned too far without a beam and are now sagging and causing cracking. You can grab a level and see if the floor has a sag where the tiles are cracking. It could be that the tiles were laid without a concrete board underneath. Too many variables here to give you one answer.

If you can get some more information as far what the inspectors mean the subfloor is bad (if he really even knows what he's talking about..)

Others have pointed you in the right direction. You probably need to improve the subfloor by installing OSB. You can also look at the floor joists underneath. Maybe its possible to reinforce them from underneath depending on your house.

Also consider using a DITRA membrane which will help the tiles handle some slight shifting. But any major structure problems should be addressed first.

>>What is required?
There's no way for you or anyone else to predict the cause of the cracked tile and you're not going to find the culprit without pulling the tile up.

I completely removed the tile floor in the rental apartment above my garage over this winter and it was cracking because the person that installed it hadn't mixed the thinset properly and didn't spread it on thick enough. I was able to pull some of the tiles up with my bare hands, others only required a smack with a hammer for them to shatter or some very light prying with a small prybar.

Floor installers can be lazy or inexperienced. The tile in my kitchen was installed on-top of old linoleum so it's not even really attached to the floor.

Removing or installing tile is not hard to do yourself. It's just time consuming so it requires patience, knee pads, and attention to detail.

>>477551
>There's no way for you or anyone else to predict the cause of the cracked tile and you're not going to find the culprit without pulling the tile up.

He could, you know, take a look under the floor from the basement/crawlspace.

>>477439
>Is this house sitting on a slab or is there a crawlspace?

He's probably got a crawlspace/basement since if he was on a slab there isn't a "subfloor" that could be bad, just a foundation, and the inspector would have said a bad foundation in that case.

But I'm not OP so I can't know for sure.

>>477640
>He could, you know, take a look under the floor from the basement/crawlspace.

The inspector would of, you know took a look under the floor from the basement/crawlspace.

Also, looking up from the bottom isn't going to tell you how thick the subfloor is, or if the thinset was too dry of a mix. It will only tell you if the joist are sized and span properly.
Which, OBVIOUSLY the inspector would of noticed.

Also, concrete floors in homes often have a subfloor.


From a carpenter's perspective who frequents /diy/, the level of construction advice here is frightening.
If you don't have a clue what you're talking about, maybe just don't post.
Thanks.

>>477018
>>477141
>>477180

>Hauling a steel I-beam under a house
>weighs probably a half a ton
>to stop tile from cracking
>even a remotely a good idea
>"Not an impossible job for a diyer that knows what they're doing"

I've been a carpenter for 17 years and I agree with >>477658, the advice given out on this board is frightening.

>>477677
A girder is the beam that supports the floor joists in wood-framed houses. It can be wood or steel. In most wood-framed houses they're usually wood.

>I've been a carpenter for 17 years

I bet.

>>477640
Almost certainpy a basement. I've never seen a house in Maine with a crawl space.

Looks like someone has been deliberately hammering the tiles to produce cracks.

I am a contractor, that has in time past specialized in tile and stone installations.
This thread is mostly bullshit with a few glimmers of hope.

The OP has not supplied enough pictures or information to post an accurate fix solution. So I'm guessing.

First we need to know the joists, size of joist times the length of span to calculate deflection. Ceramic tile is much more forgiving on deflection stats than stone.

More than likely the fault is either the subflooring boards, either being diagonal pine saw boards, or a plywood that is too thin to support the tile.

I'd need to see a image of what the current floor layers are to make an appropriate estimate of a fix. But I can make a recomendation of tearing down to the current subfloor material, adding a plywood layer(IF NEEDED), then a 1/4" layer of CBU applied with thinset and screws to the wood subfloor, then over the CBU apply a uncoupling membrane such as Schluter Ditra which will provide a crack isolation factor to any new tile installation.

image from the Schluter Ditra installation guide.

Out of curiosity, how did a contractor find his way on 4chan?

>>478433
the same way anyone else with a job finds their way on 4chan? jesus people really have the wrong idea of the 4chan demographic
especially considering the young kids using it back in 05 should be fully inserted into the workplace working a steady job
(im not the contractor)

>>477229
Gullbro, fuck yeah

>>478445

Chill nigga, I was just asking. I just migrated from /lit/, which is full with liberal art majors that don't exactly represent the hardworking demographic that /diy/ seems to encompass.

>>478418
>First we need to know the joists, size of joist times the length of span to calculate deflection. Ceramic tile is much more forgiving on deflection stats than stone.
we've already established that the inspector would have noted if the joists were the case, which leads me to believe that you're a samefag as
>>477141
>>477018

>>478418
>wasting money on ditra for a kitchen sublfoor

>I want to buy this awesome house I found.. but the kitchen floor is cracked to shit with fine cracks.

Unless those tiles were installed on ground level, you still have hope. If not, then that house is totally fucked. I wouldn't recommend buying it.

>>478660
>we've already established that the inspector would have noted if the joists were the case

>trusting in the competence of inspectors
>trusting in the competence of residential inspectors

>>478716
Exactly. There are a few of us Contractors on here. I've done enough punch lists for real estate closings to know MANY residential inspectors have no construction experience nor an idea of what they're talking about.