/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>cat8
Just run smurf tubes and fiber in your house if you want to futureproof it

>>2763945
My experience in the field is nobody trusts cable installed by someone else so the resale value is about zero you will make more money ripping it out and recycling when you move. Also if you can afford pro installation you can afford anything as that is super overpriced.
A bigger mystery is where you run the cables to... In the north we all have basements for elaborate homelab data centers but other parts of the country are a mystery.
The capex of two runs is low compared to the labor cost of installation and if you know what you are doing you can bond multiple eth for more bandwidth and reliability.
I more or less have a data center switch with a run of dual Ethernet to each room of the house and those rooms have a switch.

>>2763945
How many people will care about cat 6 or 8 or if there is ethernet wiring at all in a house? I moved 4 times in 8 years and none of the houses had ethernet wiring. Even when a house has it, people usually don’t even put it in the advertisement. So resale is zero, pick whatever suits your needs

>>2763945
I'm a white collar IT faggot and I agree with all the other comments.

normies dont give a shit about ethernet. They probably see it as just another cable to deal with. Maybe it reminds them of the office and they hate that. They don't understand nor care for the speed benefits when wifi exits, regardless of how shitty wifi is.

I moved into a modern upscale apartment that was built in 2021 that had fiber built into the complex and a media center cabinet in the closet, but no ethernet. It's fucking infuriating. They installed coax to each room though, of course. There's even a fucking RJ-11 pots line next to the kitchen sink. Fucking faggots.

>>2763945
Don't do it. No one cares about ethernet. The only dude who would appreciate it is someone who's into gaming and these days good wifi gaming routers are great.

>>2763945
Cat 6a
Put in conduit and then you can pull new cable later.

>>2764008
Oh it is to sell. Nevermind.

>>2763945
Also put in centronics parallel port wire everywhere, along with TOSlink fiber, POTs line, 75 ohm coax, RS232 serial line, USB C lines, and S-video, component, dvi, vga, hdmi and firewire.

It’s a real fucking pain. What’s the use case? No one gives a shit wrt resale as others have said
I was planning on running ethernet all over my house when I moved in. Then I did one pull and it was goddamn nightmare so I reassessed and did critical points. Getting to the second floor is a real pain and the tvs stream 4k remuxes fine over wifi. So I did my pc, my living room where my primary tv and router are, and the room where my wireless repeater is. Also meant I could save a decent amount by getting a smaller switch that not only cost less upfront but used way less power to run.
My big regret is that I didn’t just pull fiber. My switch has 10g ports, my rack has a nas with 90tb of storage serving all kinds of media plus a bunch of other shit, and my isp now offers speeds above 1g for under 100/mo. Maybe I’ll bother but then I’ll also have to upgrade a lot of other hardware so probably never

>>2764190
lol game port cables too

>>2764227
Chances are that whatever run you did pull will support 10 Gigabit. You only need CAT6a to go the full 100 meters or whatever.

>>2763945
Thanks for the chart. I do 5e on the skimpy charity side of things, as a box is cheap ($40/500ft), and we're never going to see speeds demanding more out here. People have real life and chores to attend to, as they should. Keeps them grounded and out of trouble.

I concur with everyone else, that you are probably going to make an ineffective use of your time wiring everything. Wifi 6 or whatnot ships plenty of data. At most, if you have a dead spot, put a repeater (a reconfigured router, preferably the same hardware as the main router), in that spot and make 1 ethernet run to it.

Ironically if you are rural, cabin in the woods, instead of globohomo suburbia/cities etc, there may be more demand by a buyer for ethernet and specifically, shielded twisted pair. STP is available in cat 5e, although the chart only shows UTP, unshielded. It's available in plenum, which means fire-rated. I'm just browsing around and seeing 1,000ft of Cat6 STP Plenum for $231 on amazon, available in 5 colors. B08SY4S7TV. When you install the STP, the jacket has to be grounded.

$231 for 1000ft of high-end Cat6 Plenum STP is a pretty good deal. Most of your cost will not be the cable. It will be your labor, keystones, boxes, plates, tools, etc.

>>2763945
2.5gb is the best anyone ill need.
It'll take ages for everything available in 1gb to move to it.
Run cat6 call it a a day.

>>2763945
It will have zero effect on resale, just use whatever grade of cable suits your needs for the foreseeable future.

>>2764190
>smurf tubes
you forgot PoE and 9000 baluns.

>>2763985
>don't care
Until you tell them you have runs to every corner of the house through the soffits for cameras and suddenly they like cables wtf.

>>2763945
> place ethernet jacks in most rooms that connect up to a networking panel in the garage.
Excellent. Place a couple more in locations you wouldn't think of at first, because you'll think of uses for them later.

>Is it worth "future proofing" with CAT8 over CAT6A?
No. If you can get Cat.7a cheaply, by all means use that and hope you can terminate it well enough for 10Gbit/s, but forget about anything faster with copper. It gets really sensitive beyond 10Gbit and the runs get mighty short, too. If you are eyeing bandwiths at or beyond this order of magnitude, run your copper through conduit so you can easilly pull it out and replace by fiber if and when the need arises.

>>2763985
>normies dont give a shit about ethernet. They probably see it as just another cable to deal with. Maybe it reminds them of the office and they hate that. They don't understand nor care for the speed benefits when wifi exits, regardless of how shitty wifi is.
They usually do once they've experienced how much better their wifi works after I put up enough APs for gapless, fast coverage, all of them connected through wired ethernet and PoE powered.

>>2764312
> Ironically if you are rural, cabin in the woods, instead of globohomo suburbia/cities etc, there may be more demand by a buyer for ethernet and specifically,
Yup. Never once had a customer who wanted a fucking apartment wired.

>Most of your cost will not be the cable. It will be your labor, keystones, boxes, plates, tools, etc.
Labor is the most expensive bit if you have somebody else do it.

>>2764376
> Until you tell them you have runs to every corner of the house through the soffits for cameras and suddenly they like cables wtf.
Yeah, for cameras, wired ethernet is an easy sell since you can do PoE (as opposed to shady chink wall warts being a fire hazard in hard-to-reach places or - even worse - solar panels/batteries) and get way better reliability than with crappy wifi cameras.

>>2764396
> Labor is the most expensive bit if you have somebody else do it.

And your time, is free? No sir. My time, has no price.

modernize? why even have walls?

>>2763954

this

install conduit throughout the house and have them all meet at a central location.

CAT8 is a meme and it's a bitch to pull and terminate, CAT5e will do 10Gb unless you have a massive house

>>2763945
>Is it worth "future proofing" with CAT8 over CAT6A?
Probably not. I ran full cat6 because I didn't feel like dealing with the grounding requirements of Cat6a. Do what you like. Cat8 has a speed rating of like 40gbps- Cat6 is gigabit, cat 6a can do 10gig. The limiting factor is going to be your NIC if you're going 10gig or higher, desu. 40gbps sounds great until you realize everything you have plugged in has a 1gbps NIC.

also very very important: Cat8 has a 30 meter (100ish feet) max length. This sounds like a lot, but if you're going to actually install it properly through walls and such you'll quickly find yourself running out of length. Cat6a is 100m (same with all other cat cable) so you'll have plenty of room for residential runs.

Ask yourself this, are you hosting servers and transferring immense quantities of files on your local intranet regularly? Or are you planning on setting up some kind of local cloud node for rendering videos or something like that? What ISP speed do you plan on getting? If your area only offers 1.3gbps, there's no reason to install anything but Cat6 unless you're doing huge volumes of file transfers between devices. Keep in mind that 4k streaming only requires maybe 50mbps. I'm interested in your use cases desu.

I would also recommend getting a bigger rack than you think you need. I got a 24u wall mount rack and it was fucking full instantly.

>>2763985
The biggest crime ever committed was making internet of shit devices/smart home garbage run on wifi+power instead of making everything PoE

>>2764271
Nice, will look into this more

>>2764876
wifi's okay. The worst crime is when they tie their internet of shit devices to their dogshit cloud service paired with their crApp that only runs on the 2 newest iOS/Android releases and will drop support for your device after 3 years. Or their dogshit cloud service inevitably becomes too expensive for them to operate, so they either start nickel and diming you, sell it off to the AmazGoogSung botnet, or they shut it down, leaving you with a brick. Oh, and it uses proprietary garbage IoT hardware, so no flashing it to Tasmota for YOU, consoomer.

>>2765017
I accidentally enabled WPA3 on my router and literally everything on my wlan including one or two laptops disconnected because every manufacturer has been hoarding old nic chips for 2 decades. the cloud shit is just icing on the cake.

>>2763945
you dont need any better than cat5e which can do 1gig very easily on 'short' runs i.e. inside a house

>>2764876
not to mention that they have microchips and full IP-based and internet capabilities, but all they do is phone home to a hardcoded cloud address. it's so much wasted potential that could have been expanded so much with just a tiny bit more effort from the engineers. Even just a local network DNS redirect to a java applet controller would have reduced the waste 10-fold. Or even just A REST API.

But no, everything has to have a complete mobile app suite for the retarded normies. Fuck the people who actually know what they're doing.

>>2764371
Good point.
How does POE “know” if the wire is CAT6 (with thicker wire) or if it’s just CAT5 and will burn you house down?

>>2764874
>40gbps sounds great until you realize everything you have plugged in has a 1gbps NIC.
This. You'll have a hard time finding anything with NICs that fast. And if you do have it you need to make sure there are no I/O bottle necks inside the machine, such as spinning rust hard drives or even SATA SSDs (upper limit for SATA in general is 6GBit/s). Such bottle necks would prevent it from feeding a 10Gbit/s or 40Gbit/s NIC at line rate, rendering the whole thing rather pointless.

> I would also recommend getting a bigger rack than you think you need. I got a 24u wall mount rack and it was fucking full instantly.
Yeah, these tend to fill up quickly. Especially if you're depth constrained (no 800mm 1U pizza boxes for you, gotta use 2U or even 4U cases).

>>2764876
>The biggest crime ever committed was making internet of shit devices/smart home garbage run on wifi+power instead of making everything PoE
The cancer that is "passive PoE" (i.e. vendor specific crap that can't be driven by a standards compliant PoE switch/injector) comes a close second.

>>2763945

>>2765346
>rendering the whole thing rather pointless.
The only reason I can think of having 40gbps is if you're using it as a feed pair between two buildings/servers and you have multiple devices sending an absolute fuckton of data between them. I can't even imagine what that would be though, given the run limit on those lines. there's 0 reason not to go with fiber because you've got so much longer runs. Maybe if you have some giga multinode servers communicating with each other endlessly but I can't see it for a home user? Unless I'm missing something.

>>2765611
>I can't even imagine what that would be though, given the run limit on those lines. there's 0 reason not to go with fiber because you've got so much longer runs.
Yeah. It's bloody sensitive to interference (unlike fiber), and there's no reserves. Higher speeds than 40G over copper are unlikely to ever happen because electrical signals are a right royal bitch the higher the frequency - with fiber you can already go higher if you're rich enough to afford big iron with expensive optics. And if you need 40Gbit now, you're likely to need even moar in the future - which fiber can already do. Also, there's logistics to consider. I for one wouldn't even know where to get 40Gbit copper gear. 40Gbit fiber QSFPs (and much faster) you can simply order from your friendly neighborhood fiber chinesium vendor.

>>2765611
I have a home server with secondary pool that is entirely made up of speedy nvme drives, 40g would be handy to transfer between other pcs in the home and that as the network is the current bottleneck even at 10g. But I’m not gonna bother, I’ll just wait a few minutes. The pool is 4tb usable so transferring the entire capacity on 10g takes less than an hour, theoretically (realistically probably a bit more due to overheads obviously). The primary pool, that I use way more, is mostly actual hard drives with some nvme for caching though which speeds things up a bit but it’s still overall much slower. 10g is fine there and recreating that with ssd would be $$$ because it’s like 120tb total
Also a 24 port 40g switch is like 4-5 grand. I got my 48 port 1 gig switch with 5 10 gig ports for $30 used and easily have enough ports for all the various poe shit in my house plus wiring all the rooms. It does suck down power but I bet the 40g one does too tbf

>>2763945
My end result after having a similar question was I'm installing 1" EMT through the house. As each room gets remodeled I put in another branch. Eventually I'll have it running everywhere so I can run whatever I want and change it should something else come up.

Current plan is to run signal mode 40 Gbps Fiber Optics and a 3 wire heavy gauge 20 amp line with isolated ground runners added separately, that should allow for just about any hook up I can think of and room to spare. Going Fiber Optic helps avoid EMF issues and inductive violations which was partly why I used EMT originally as the routes pass too close to other things and Fiber was way too expensive back when I started.

Can't tell you how many people were just telling me to just fish some Ethernet as that would have been far less work and money, they think I'm crazy for doing it right. The slightly better suggestion was to run some blue smurf tubing, although surprisingly it's not rated very well and technically not suppose to go into my attic and some of my crawl spaces given the temperature and humidity of those areas. All the my work is done to code and my standards, no short cuts in my house.

>>2763945
I have cat5e and I get full gig speed from my fiber.
I bought 550mhz Cat6 cable on sale and have never bothered to pull and install it.

>>2765734
> Higher speeds than 40G over copper are unlikely to ever happen
They’ve been saying stuff like that for years and they break through every time.
Also, multiplexing exists.

I just have a usb to sata with a ssd on it when I need to transfer a lot.
Runs 10gig, so worst case doing it twice is like 5 gig.
Fixed wiring in 5e, 1 in 1000 I ever need anything faster than that other than between server and workstation where I have a one off qfp link.
Lots of things dont need anything like gig speeds, just plan accordingly.

>>2767262
>They’ve been saying stuff like that for years and they break through every time.
I'm familiar with the history. But 40Gbit saw a massive decline in range and resilience (unlike the other jumps in bandwidth). It's bloody hard to get it right, too, so you've got all the finnickyness of fiber with inferior performance. Just like with Moore's Law, we're reaching a point of diminishing returns. All the while, fiber is getting cheaper. A mere 15 years ago you had to drop the monetary equivalent of a single family home on the equipment necessary for splicing and qualifying your fiber. Now it's more like a compact car. I'm fairly sure the residential trade off is going to shift in favor of fiber at some stage. Not while 1000BaseT (or 10000BaseT) is still plenty for household use, but once that ceases to be the case (1-2 decades), fiber is quite likely to be sufficiently cheap.

> Also, multiplexing exists.
It does, but if I needed that much bandwidth I'd rather not run multiplexing over two highly interference susceptible and interference causing ultra high frequency electrical links. Fiber is a lot less trouble if I can swing running it.

>>2767323
>I just have a usb to sata with a ssd on it when I need to transfer a lot.
>Runs 10gig, so worst case doing it twice is like 5 gig.
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway."

That old kike's quip aged remarkably well.

>>2767505
> plenty for household use
That’s right. We’re already waaaay beyond what we need without any of this shit.
You got retards stringing fiber for “future proofing” when they’re on DSL.
My residential LAN uses regular telephone line, see picrel. It’s fine for watching netflix at 1080p, never got any buffering. My bandwidth—per my plan—is limited to 1MB/sec. But I tested it, and it’s true, but it’s per connection/stream, so my aggregate bandwidth is much higher.
In fact, not only don’t we need fiber or cat6, we don’t even need cat5.
Our original 75 ohm cable TV will be handling 10 Gb/s with DOCSYS 4.0. We never needed HDMI either, that was for DRM bullshit.
You remind me of the guy that came to my door that was trying to tell me I need a 1000A residentisl circuit because electric cars.
I’m being forced to upgrade to fiber here, but I will have enough bandwidth serve the while community. I’m sure as hell not paying for it.

>>2767505
> plenty for household use
That’s right. We’re already waaaay beyond what we need without any of this shit.
You got retards stringing fiber for “future proofing” when they’re on DSL.
My residential LAN uses regular telephone line, see picrel. It’s fine for watching netflix at 1080p, never got any buffering. My bandwidth—per my plan—is limited to 1MB/sec. But I tested it, and it’s true, but it’s per connection/stream, so my aggregate bandwidth is much higher.
In fact, not only don’t we need fiber or cat6, we don’t even need cat5.
Our original 75 ohm cable TV will be handling 10 Gb/s with DOCSYS 4.0. We never needed HDMI either, that was for DRM bullshit.
You remind me of the guy that came to my door that was trying to tell me I need a 1000A residentisl circuit because electric cars.
I’m being forced to upgrade to fiber here, but I will have enough bandwidth serve the while community. I’m sure as hell not paying for it.

The people who built my house ran unreliable ratfuck 5e cable to every room and I desperately want to replace it. I cut into the crawlspace in the attic above the garage and its all underneath that shiity blasted-in insulation, tangled up with other wires, and routed god knows how to the other rooms. What do I do about this?

>>2767608
It’s probably the end-terminations.
It’s pretty easy, but people still fuck it up.
I actually just run the cable driectly out of the box (leave about 8 feet) and when I hook something up to it, I cut the end to length and terminate it so it’s a direct uncut run from point-to-point through the walls.

>>2767614
Negatory unfortunately. I've checked, reterminated, I ran some cat 6 I had through the house just to test and confirm. The wiring js bad, like maybe the whole batch was bad. The upstairs rooms are trash and intermittent too. I should note I'm video editing huge files and communicating with a truenas server. Have a 10gb switch and 10gbs nics in all my systems. The wires are shit and need redone. This completely sucks

>>2767614
>I cut the end to length and terminate it so it’s a direct uncut run from point-to-point through the walls.
What are you using where the cable passes into the wall?
Just a hole?

I had a problem with one of my Cat 6 runs.
Turns out it was the keystone coupler in the wallplate.
Which was a relief, it meant all my terminations were good, and I didn't have to make any new wiring run.
But it's weird that it was the coupler itself that caused the issue.

>>2767624
> just a hole?
Exactly. Well, almost. I put in a rubber black grommet in the hole and run the wire through that.
They have them at home depot, GB brand.

>>2767620
> bad wiring
It is actually tested before going out, so maybe it was the installation.
So, wire has to be “supported” by code, and if they did it in a very kind way, you can use the old wire to fish new wire through.
If they were fuckheads they nailed/clamped it tight and you’re fucked unless you need a LF ham radio antenna.

>>2767600
>You remind me of the guy that came to my door that was trying to tell me I need a 1000A residentisl circuit because electric cars.
You are barking up the wrong tree. Read my post closely. I'm not trying to sell anyone on fiber because I'm merrily laying copper myself right now. I'm merely pointing out that the cost/benefit tradeoff will shift in favor of fiber if speeds beyond 10GBit are needed at some stage. Below that, copper will remain popular even if fiber gets that cheap because it's less of a hassle to pull/terminate and more robust.

>>2767624
>keystone coupler
why wouldn't you use a punchdown? way easier to punchdown then make a male end

>>2767760
There is no reason to terminate fiber in your home. Just pull LC fibers, the connector is barely larger than the fiber.

>>2767842
Are they better?
Other than the obvious fact that I used a defective coupler.
Is there any real advantage to using a punchdown over a coupler?

"Easier" isn't important - it's not like I'm making ethernet wallplates very often, and it takes basically the same amount of time and effort to terminate a punchdown versus a male RJ45.

>>2767964
Easier is very important when you're complaining about how difficult it is to terminate and get your rated speeds.

>>2767760
I was incensed because my wife wants a 5G phone because… why?

We have zero 5 G coverage, even the LTE coverage is shit, so it won’t even work…
You need the bandwidth for what? Watch 8k 240 fps video while you’re driving down the freeway?
Maybe using the hotspot to play call of duty with your xbox while driving down the highway?

I just don’t get the whole “we need more bandwidth” argument. I’m the lowest tier I can get and it’s more than I need now.
I was thinking of forming a co-op of neighbours and we could terminate our internets and just share costs with one connection.

>>2767957
> There is no reason to terminate fiber in your home. Just pull LC fibers, the connector is barely larger than the fiber.
Armored simplex cables - which would be putting the small size of the LC connector to good use - are hard to find (and I wouldn't want to subject an unarmored cable to the rigors of fishing through smurf tubes), usually have to order custom. Same for staggered pigtail duplex custom with pull sleeve. Maybe that'll change as more people realize WDM optics are quite cheap and not at all hard to find.

>>2768014
>I just don’t get the whole “we need more bandwidth” argument.
More bandwidth on the local network is quite nice if one operates a local file server with lots of storage space. Given a sizeable local data store, Internet bandwidth becomes a lot less important.

>>2768017
You can get an lc cable with a pull sock and a pull rating from the factory. It's fine.

Nothing stopping you from using a ln LC cable within 10 meters of the right length and storing the slack. No one is fusing the fibers in their office.

>>2768021
100% this. Wifi 6 is suitable for internet oriented tasks most of the time, ethernet if I need truly low latency I guess. But when I’m working with files on my NAS it’s significantly faster to use the 10g cabling. 10g is okay for now because my nas is mostly spinning hard drives due to cost with nvme cache, but a few years from now it will hopefully be more economically feasible to make an all ssd nas of reasonable size. Then 10g is a bottleneck

>>2764876
>The biggest crime ever committed was making internet of shit devices/smart home garbage

You could have just stopped typing right there.

>>2768021
What “files” ??? Your excel spreadsheet need 10 GB/s? DVD is 1 MB/s and blu ray is just over 4MB/s. Get real.
Everything is stored in the cloud or will be soon.
I can’t even figure out how to save netflix movies.

>>2768054
> in a few years
They’ve been saying that for a decade now. SSDs are improving? No.
They’re staying small, high priced, and now MLCs have fewer than 100 write cycles. A hard disk and RAM have 10^12 and 10^16 write cycle lifetimes for comparison. They hide it on an SSD by shuffling it around, like a duck swimming around a pond in the winter, the unfrozen area getting inexorably smaller and smaller.

There’s tons of companies that work tirelessly to make sure everything is controlled by them. This applies to storage, intel is working on a service model to activate cpu features, all media and streaming.

This is why they’re pushing big bandwidth.

>>2768062
Hi res remux rips of uhd media is more like 20MB/s. Stop watching shitty compressed media like streaming networks want you to and experience movies and tv properly. Or stay with your shit web-dls and hevc encodes that give nice screenshots but objectively look worse in motion. 1g network would occasionally choke on these, 10g is fine although tbf 2.5g would’ve also been fine. But 2.5g hardware is pricey as shit bc it’s a consumer standard; 10g hardware is widely available as ewaste. I got my 48 port 1g switch with 5 10g ports for less than 50 bucks because the market is flooded with these things. Good luck finding a 2.5g switch for anything near that price. Same thing for 10g nics, I’ve never paid more than $25 for one.

Additionally working with things like recording audio/daw stuff having high lan bandwidth means using the nas becomes much more tolerable. Moving lossless project files between the server and host takes significantly less time. You can even work on files stored remotely but it’s generally a better idea to copy them to local storage first

I fear you’re right on ssds but I hope you’re wrong. Ultimately companies just don’t want us to store files locally and that’s just utter bullshit. I store everything locally. But who knows. Sabrent seems to have cancelled their 16tb ssd and they were the only one I was aware of so you’re probably right. God the future is so goddamn depressing

>>2768115
> Stop watching shitty compressed media

Okay, I’m going to give you a bite of a reality sandwich: I am getting old, and you will too.

I can’t tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.
I’m happy watching things in standard def now.
I went to go buy a new 720p TV but the kid in there looked at me like I needed to be put in a care facility and I’m only 48.
So I got like a 1080p 58” TV and video games have fonts so small I have to go up to it to read it. Yes, my kids do all the boss fights for me.
I’ve gone back to recording FM on cassette tape because my ears aren’t that good anymore, I’m happy listening on a clock radio.
I think this is how “audiophiles” are created, their ears start to go and they compensate by buying thousands of dollars in audio gear, and gold plated, unidirectional, oxygen free, erbium-doped monster cables to compensate for it. I, on the other hand, realized That it was just me and tinnitus and learned to accept it, rather than needing 256 kHz-sampled, lossless raw audio.

>>2768030
>You can get an lc cable with a pull sock and a pull rating from the factory. It's fine.
As I said, armored (i.e. pull rated) LC simplex with pull sock from the factory is a custom order they'll produce specifically for you. About a month lead time right now. Maybe one day that sort of thing becomes so common you can buy it off the shelf. At that point I may consider fiber for residential settings.

> Nothing stopping you from using a ln LC cable within 10 meters of the right length and storing the slack.
That's what I usually do, yes. At least in non-residential settings. In residential settings I only use copper.

>>2768062
>What “files” ??? Your excel spreadsheet need 10 GB/s? DVD is 1 MB/s and blu ray is just over 4MB/s. Get real.
I keep two file servers mirroring several linux distros' package repos so I don't have to rely on "the cloud" when setting up linux machines. It takes a couple of hours to sync from upstream and a lot less than that for the backup file server to sync from the master one. It's ok with gigabit speeds, but with 10G it's a lot quicker. Lets me schedule it right after the very early morning sync from upstream with a generous buffer should that one take longer and another generous buffer between the second sync and me starting to work in the morning.

>Everything is stored in the cloud or will be soon.
That right there is why I like to store things locally.

>>2768213
You sound kind of like a luddite type. That’s cool, maybe get a unabomber style shack and eschew tech altogether

But 4k content is objectively sharper and has more image definition than 1080p. This is not a controversial opinion. Saying “you need to upgrade to get 4k, it’s absolutely necessary” is controversial probably because I’m sure a lot of people just don’t give a shit and that’s fine. It’s also not just about the increased sharpness and clarity but also way better color mapping with hdr/dolby vision. It’s noticeably better than 1080p at a glance. And 1080p vs 720p is usually barely noticeable

Then on top of it you have the compression thing which is where things are a bit more debatable. Again, uncompressed video objectively looks better. But how much better will depend a lot on how much you notice compression artifacts in video, how good your display is, etc. and even then this is a much more minimal improvement compared to 1080 vs 4k. That minimal improvement is offset by storage savings - an uncompressed copy of a movie might 70-80 gigs, x264 might drop that to 20-30, x265 might drop it to 10, hevc or av1 even further. Each comes with compromise. But disk space is cheap. My nas has well over 100tb of space and it’s simple to add more, why not keep the best quality?

Plus the archival aspect: if I do decide I want to encode to a lossy format I should start with an uncompressed master. Encoding a remux to av1 will give the best results, encoding x264 to av1 will give mixed results because I’m using a lossy master

Also fwiw I’m 40 with totally shit vision. Like I’ve had 8 eye surgeries, my prescription gets worse every year, they tell me I should just not bother with wearing glasses daily because they’ll be too heavy, and I have to get a specific brand of contacts because my script is -16 diopters. But thanks to modern medicine even my shitty vision is correctable so maybe yours is too. Go see a doctor

I'm 42 with good vision and hearing. Watching 1080p for most shit is fine for me. The file size is 2-4gb per movie and crisp enough that I don't care, usually doing separate stuff anyway. For movies I really love I have crazy lossless 4k and love that honestly. I'd do it for every movie if it wasn't like 70gb to have a blueray folder copy.
But 720 fucking sucks. I won't even store that trash anymore unless it's an old ass film. Most of those were upscaled in that trash era of upscaling that causes more problems than it fixes so there's more charm to its og age. But for the most part that 48year old anon is wrong af. As I age if it's thesable I want 5000k inected into my eyes and ass. I'm dissapointing we don't have full field vision VR in ridiculous resolution by now.

>>2768268
Armored is not related to pull rated. That's if you're trying to remediate rats chewing on it or someone stepping on it innthe crawlspace, neither of which is guaranteed

They're all covered in Kevlar underneath the 2mm jacket. That gives the pull rating.

>>2768283
The thing about 720p is when I hook my laptop up to it, the fonts scale up so I can see everything. Yes, I’ve tried futzing with the settings and resolution, but native 720p is readable from the chesterfield.
And, I’m satisfied with video quality. A plasma would be better, of course—I think that would make the most difference.

I watch a lot of things with subtitles and I really need to read those. The second season of one punch man doesn’t need uncompressed 8k video, DVD quality is fine.
Besides, most actresses are filmed with the beverly crusher wax-paper blur filter, and anything with CGI looks terrible and fake on anything above 720p. The typical marvel or trolls or barbie movie content sure as hell isn’t worth anything but 480p.

>>2768368
Adjust subtitle size with your media player settings. It’s independent of resolution. you may need a better media player, a lot handle subtitles like absolute shit

>>2768322
>Armored is not related to pull rated.
Here in Europoorland it appears to be. None of my suppliers give a pull rating for anything other than armored cable. As for the Kevlar jacket underneath the PVC: I have yet to see fiber without it - that stuff is why you need serrated scissors to cut fiber. So technically all fiber would be pull rated.

That being said, even regular fiber patch cable is fairly tough. A certain network engineer of my acquaintance once was too lazy to walk the 200 meters to the store room and stretched 3m length of single mode taut as a drum to make it to the patch panel. That particular length of fiber worked just fine for years.

>>2763945
My condo in commiefornia was wired with cat 5e with ports. I was fucking thrilled but half the ports didn't work so i had to buy a kit to terminate and test the lines properly.
I fucking hated it and I absolutely detest connecting Ethernet jacks to end plates or connectors.
For resale value, they had zero impact because the cunts who bought the place were tearing it up anyway. If I was in your shoes just get cat6a or even 5e. Why?
> Easy to do routing
> Internet is going to cap out at 1gps anyway. You really don't need anything faster.
The other problem is to really take advantage of home Ethernet, you need to know how to set it up. As in, get a switch and hook it up to a router. Most dumb fucks just hook up an all in one cable modem next to their TV and call it a day.
Don't go over board.

>>2763945
cat 6 is overkill, the likelihood of anyone needing anything more is rather low in residential house.

>>2763957
>nobody trusts cable installed by someone else
this only sort of true for businesses. not for homes.

>>2769311
> detest connecting Ethernet jacks to end plates or connectors
You think that’s bad? Ethernet is a wet dream when compared to fiber or USB-C

>>2769432
Fuck me, imagine running fiber lines through a house and have to splice and terminate that faggotry.
> USB C
Fucking tranny connector
No thanks.

>>2763945
I got my own question. I bought a house recently and there is cat 5e going to a bunch of rooms but I have no fucking clue where it leads to. I assume it would all go to a central location but i cannot find it. Any tips for tracing? It’s all behind drywall. I just redid a doorbell transformer and it was also in an incredibly stupid spot (in the basement roof)

>>2771098
It was probably for the hidden cameras in the kids’ rooms when the put the place up air b n b.

>>2771098
Usually the master closet or another closet.

Sometimes a metal panel or plastic box near the power meter or elsewhere outside the house.

>>2771098
The main line probably comes into your garage and from there it goes up into the space above the garage. Sometimes to access it you have to find a panel and cut the paint and unscrew some painted-over screws, pulling away the panel to access the crawl space. You'll probably find the wires all buried in a bunch of shitty blown-in insulation that you need a respirator to be around, and you can't step in there freely or your feet will bust down into the garage below. That's my setup and it's a common stupid nightmare.

>>2771098

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805914560412.html

these things work great for basic circuit tracing

>>2763993
People don't realize wifi has constant small problems which translate into dumb tech support or redo time and can be eliminated with an ethernet cable. Constant use in static situation always use wires your nuisances will go down by 80%. I don't think it matters much either about the quality of the wifi bars on the devices, seems to be dropouts or the network stack breaking. I wire everything - cameras, printers etc. as much as possible its taken a big chunk out of my downtime.

>>2771667
People who praise wifi as this magical thing that's good enough are pants on head retarded. It is the most signal dropping intermittent problem generating fuckmess imaginable.
t. sysop 20 years dealing with people who trust it way too much and never blame it when it's the obvious problem.

>>2763973
The house we bought was built in 2001 and there's cat 3 cable wired throughout the house. Haven't even touched it as it's so damn slow when compared to the inbound Internet speed and wifi speeds from my router.

>>2771667
People also don’t realize tv manufacturers are cheap as fuck and even on fancy flagship TVs typically you’re getting a 100mbit ethernet port. That’s why your 4k remuxes stutter when you stream them via plex or whatever to your brand new $3000 83” oled that you ran ethernet to, because the company cheaped out and gave it a 100mbit port and the file needs 120mbit for the stream. So then you either need some stupid $200 androidtv or amazon box that’s loaded with ads and tracks your shit but actually has a gigabit port or you just use 5ghz wifi

>>2771670
>People who praise wifi as this magical thing that's good enough are pants on head retarded. It is the most signal dropping intermittent problem generating fuckmess imaginable.
For 99% of users, wifi is good enough. If their house is bigger, there are cheap mesh-network routers that take all the guesswork. A boomer would rather spend 20 dollars on those awful wifi extender boxes then run an actual AP off the main router for one SSID

At work, we are dealing with people who are now on t-mobile 5g home internet. Why is this a problem? because we're still not set up to properly allow ipv6 only (lol) into our network over the express gateway VPN, so the solution? "Oh you have to get cable if you want to work from home until we get ipv6 ironed out. New home 5g internet run solely on ipv6 because they aren't paying for old ipv4 addressing anymore, too expensive.

And you know what? the shitty congestion-prone weather affected 300mbps cellular data? It's perfectly fine for 99% of users. 4k streaming which almost no one supports or uses is like 25mbps. Will it suck when jimmy needs to download his next 200gb video game? Sure. But for half the price of cable internet no one will be hassled enough to care.

Wired home internet is something for super users. the fraction of a percent of the population who have home media servers, file storage systems, or play video games on a traditional desktop. Most boomers/zoomers don't even have computers or even laptops anymore- The tablet and phone has replaced them all.

>>2771749
Just like how there are warehouses upon warehouses of WPA2 chips that are dirt cheap, delaying the deployment of WPA3, there are billions of fastethernet chips sitting there that these TV and other companies can snap up for nothing and put in devices that will never see more than 100mbps demand.
>he thinks the smart TVs aren't loaded with trackers or ads
My brother's samsung smart TV inserts it's own ads into youtube videos.

>>2771667
>>2771670
This, So much this. Wifi is terrible after a mere two walls (walls are usually brick here in europoorland). And the "wifi extenders" people keep buying for ridiculous amounts of money just add another unreliable power line - or even wifi on a different channel - link to the chain. Then they switch ISPs, buy new routers a lo, all the while ignoring the real problem. It's very easy to make people very happy by laying a length of bog standard ethernet cable. It's damn near impossible to get them to realize this is possible, though.

>>2771749
I think the get around that with compression.
Although, granted, that is probably lossy nowadays, but still. 100 Mbit is probably fine.

It’s not like anything you stream is worth 4K with 120 FPS and each frame is the equivalent of a .raw from your full frame camera. Far from it… It’s morbin’ time!

I actually prefer that filmmakers blur out some things with the beverly crusher close-up penthouse filter. I don’t want to see some if that detail. Even 10 Mb/s is fine for my needs.

>>2771800
>literally says wifi is good enough
You are the reason my coop game team matches are shitmic rubberbanding connection dropping zoomertards literally every day.

>>2771961
You're not a normal user.

>>2771962
> anyone watching youtbe wondering why their browser locks randomly
> anyone visiting any website and getting a random 10 second buffer wait on refresh
> wondering why any number of programs they installed throw some obscure dll error because it got corrupted during dl
> Don't understand why their ring cams arbitrarily won't connect sometimes
> Dont understand why their 30 smart home devices suck so hard they have to go power cycle them to reestablish communication
> Don't understand why their friends bitch at them about their shitty discord quality when it seems fine to them
> BUT I CAN USE FACEBOOK FINE TO SEE MUH BOOMER MEMES SO 99%
You are actually retarded. Please never try to help anyone diagnose pc issues.

>>2771979
>Wow you think this thing that almost every household uses for their internal network is good? You fucking retard. EVERYONE Should have a wired connection even if for their usecase it's entirely unnecessary! How do I know? Well here's a list of symptoms that could be wifi but could be something else but MIGHT be wifi!
>wondering why any number of programs they installed throw some obscure dll error because it got corrupted during dl
>And here's one that isn't even an issue because I don't know what error detection or a checksum is!
>What about all these smart home things that you don't even have a choice to use wifi on that's why it sucks!
Bro please. Stop. I'm not even arguing that wifi is better than wired, of course wired is always better. I'm arguing that for 99% of users wifi is good enough. The fact that 5g home internet is often less than half the price of cable internet for 300gbps means that, again, for non-super-users, normal people, it's fine.

>>2771802
>10 Mb/s is fine for my needs.
I'll file this in my cringe folder along with:
>bill gates "no one needs more than 640k"
and a former friend of mine
>Ralph Jones "no one needs 16 million colors".

>>2772082
> i need more than 16 million colors
color is a complex topic, and you only need four: CMYK
> 640k should be enough
If software wasn’t so bad, that would still be true
Each playstation 3 Cell BE core only has 256k of RAM.
SSDs are faster than the RAM of the time (1MB/s) but they wear out 10^14 times faster, so pick your poison.

>>2772036
And I'm saying 99%, in this era of more and more people demanding more from the net and wireless devices, is a yuuuugely fucking retarded blanket overstatement. The people you think that don't notice wifi's bullshit nature whether they know it's the issue or not is less and less by the day and its been trending that way since 1997.

>>2772221
If you're going to argue wifi is bad then do it in a coherent way and don't make up shit that hasn't been a problem for decades like downloads without error checking. you're not a normal user, what you think is a normal user is not a normal user. Beyond all wifi's problems most smart home shit doesn't even connect to 5ghz networks. If you take a sample of people who have wired home internet in their homes vs just using wifi, My 99% metric is probably correct. And for those people? It's good enough.

>>2772036
The problem is that people don't know their daily internet problem complaints should be directed at wifi and thousands of reddit level techbro no-nothings saying ignorant shit like "it's fine for most people" causes said people to not blame the correct thing. Thus they continue to suffer, and make everyone else who interacts with them suffer. Stop making the internet suck more than it needs to.