/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>1801315
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYGo_HwJ5Zc

help I keep breaking my 1/8" endmills trying to plunge

>>1801395
I broke a 1/16 endmill plunging on a 3d parallel toolpath earlier.

The thing with plunging is, you probably shouldn't do it. You can do it at an angle like 45 degrees and have good results, but straight plunge the end gash of the endmill needs to be ground properly for plunging.

Tools like the guhring diver and kennametal harvi TE are made to be able to plunge better than normal tools, like straight the fuck down into the material and then full slot their way around. Doing that is kind of common with the super powered aerospace machines for giant aluminum parts, they put like a 60hp spindle on a large horizontal router with stupid fast spindle speed and machine giant pieces of aluminum, like a wing part of an airplane or something.

SGS (Kyocera) makes some aluminum plunging endmills for those applications.

So the main problems arise from too many flutes, and the chips packing up into them, as well as the end gash on the endmill causing the corners to pack up and break.

Try pre-drilling with a drill bit, then plunging the endmill into the hole.

>>1801399
I end up doing it because I need to drill through something hard but the drills at the shop are all garbage

>>1801406
ramping

it's called ramping, if not CNC then peck drilling with an endmill and short pecks

Im going to put a power feed on my benchtop mill.
I cannot tell which one of these two I should buy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Feed-Milling-Machine-Power-FeedX-Axis-Torque450in-lb-Table/124035635001

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALSGS-110V-220V-Power-Feed-for-Horizontal-Milling-Machine-X-Y-Axis-ALB-310SX-USA/352757198716

They are almost identical, they mounting and castings are identical. They look to be identical
Grizzly and Precision Matthews both OEMed out the more expensive ALSGS product. Should I take that to mean its the better of the two, or should I just save the hundred dollars and go for the cheap one?

Is there any reason I can't use a double fluted 6mm cutter for milling slots out of aluminium box section? I keep asking the company's machinist and he just shakes his head like there's something I'm not understanding but then never actually explains it. I'm not actually trained or qualified to do any of this btw the machinist just comes over once a month and stands around explaining whatever the fuck he feels like for a few hours and then fucks off and I do the actual hours because my hourly is like a tenth of his

Reposting in new bread

If i want to do engraving like this, what sort of pathing do i use in fusion 360?
I am going to use 1mm ball endmill. The wood is oak.
Do i simply use 3d adaptive clearing and let it rip? will i get a nice clean result like this?

>>1801557
first use 3d adaptive with flatend endmill to rough it with about .5mm stock left
then use tapered ball endmill to do a parallel run to finish the details

>>1801557
>Do i simply use 3d adaptive clearing and let it rip? will i get a nice clean result like this?

Nope, 3d finishing toolpaths like parallel are your only hope. There are other finishing toolpaths that help too, like contour and stuff.

>just picked up a grizzly g0704
>haven't machined anything properly in 4 years
>plan to start off with NIMS kerplunks
How fucked am I lads?

>>1801667
I don't know what NIMS Kerplunks is but if it's complicated you'll probably learn the value of CNC.

>>1801671
Sorry, NIMS test pieces, the certification tests

>>1801497
For starters your picture is of a single flute endmill.

>>1801472
a shit power feed is pretty shit, I've got one on my worn out knee mill.

Don't know what's wrong with it.

I'm seeing a lot of cheap bench lathes with aluminum castings instead of iron now. They're currently the same price range, maybe a few hundred less, than ones with iron. I'm 100% green, and only know from things I've read, but isn't this a horrible idea? I mean, wouldn't it suffer a lot from a metal that is both lighter and more prone to resonate?

>>1802095
greater thermal distortion too

>>1801804
I know. I don't have any double fluted ones

How much would it cost me to have a machine shop make something like this on a lathe? Rough dimensions are about 12"x1.5" and I would supply metal & blueprint.

>>1802294
What's wrong with regular mass produced buttplugs?

>>1802294
Depends on the tolerances, what is the I.D hole size?

>>1802299
Kek
>>1802318
Hole diameter is .5" and roughly 8" deep

>>1802294
>How much would it cost
It varies a lot between places and where you live, you're better off doing a bunch of estimates at local shops to get an idea.
>I would supply metal & blueprint.
Generally shops don't like taking customer materials unless its a part to fix, because if they fuck up then they have to buy more, and they may even charge you for it.

>>1802349
The hole is going to be a bitch to make, they're going to need an extra long drill or a gun drill which they may not have on hand and will charge you extra for they tools needed, especially since its a special tool they may never use again. The price reflects difficultly and precision of the part.

>>1802360
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/08535247

don't know how that will work in the material

>>1802294
how soon do you need 'em?

Give me a print or a 3d model and I'll give you an estimate. My Mori turning center is down at the moment though :/

>>1802388
I just need one, it's no rush. In fact I still have to finalize the design a bbit.it would be 1040 steel, nothing crazy.

tinkering with my old maho 700, the controller is still unknown to us
college of mine comes by, we try going to reference
>press ref button, press Z axis, press start
>the machine moves to Z ref endstop
>neat
>press ref button, press Y axis, press start
>the machine moves past the Z axis soft endstop
>what even
>now it wont move because its on Z axis hard endstop

>>1802434
Probably not too expensive then, as long as a drilled bore is going to be okay. If you need a perfectly round smooth bore 1/2" diameter and 12" long well that might be more expensive.

I can just flip it over and use like an aircraft extension drill bit on both ends, has to be cheaper than a $100 gun drill.

>>1802761
Then again... I could just run a 1/2" reamer down through it. Might not even be a problem.

I wonder how well a reamer does at the point where drill from both ends meets. Maybe someone on here knows.

>>1802740
You hold down the overtravel release button and move it off the hard overtravel switch.

Then you figure out why the other limit switch didn't work.

>>1802761
>>1802762
Mcmaster has extended drills, don't know how well they work. Where I work we have difficulty making parts with 2" to 3" long holes with consistent runout with our rickety cnc lathes, I cannot imagine drilling an 8" long hole. Good luck.

>>1802776
>>1802761
The important part is the starting hole, buy a jobber, a regular length, a long one, and a really fucking long one. Clear chips out super often.

Doing a last minute report for my manufacturing course, how do you ballpark the cost of a superior german-engineered custom made face mill cutter?

>>1802780
lol that is impressive

>>1802782
use the 5-axis job shop rate or something crazy

>>1802780
Impressive, how concentric is the hole? And what is the use case, tolerances expected?

Hey guise, have any of you XP with the 3-400 dollar DROs on ebay? I've spent less than 1k on this so far and I am very aware that you get what you pay for in this industry but cannot afford or justify 1500 bux for a digital read out. Here is a before cleaning pic of my mill.

>>1802961
Sorry it's sideways

>>1802780
what does that video remind me of blacked?

>>1802990

>>1802990
Because you don't belong here. You have to go back.

Anyone else following Grimsmo's quarantine shop videos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lje2B2Mz7SI

>tfw no half million dollar Kern 5-axis

>>1802990
Go shit up another board, kike

What use would anyone have with a R8 to ER32 adapter?
Im just browsing chinkshit ebay machinist stuff and saw it. I understand morse taper ones for a lathe and stuff.
Why would you not just use an R8 collet?

>>1802905
One worked out well, less than 0.005" off. The other one fucked off almost a quarter inch. RIP like 3 hours of tedious bullshit.

>>1803110
ER32 has a greater clamping range for one thing, maybe to hold a drill bit of an odd size without needing a million R8 collets or something. Or maybe ER32 will hold a bigger shank than R8.

what is the power split between spindle and the servos moving the axes?
if you are milling something, the spindle uses say 100W to cut out chips from the material and the servos also need certain amount of power to push the spindle into the material, so i was wondering if the work force is split equally between the spindle and the servos or if the spindle is doing much more work than the servos during cutting

>>1803527
It depends on the drive efficiency, but the spindle is definitely doing more work. Just logically, looking at a CNC, or even just the spec sheets of the CNC, you're always going to see that the biggest motor by far is the spindle.

>>1803528
the power transfer to move axes is done via lead screws, so kind of shitty, not the worst
I am trying to figure out if replacing servos on my machine with stronger ones would be worth it, because if the spindle is doing say 10 times more work then for 1KW spindle you only need like 100W servos for axes (of course actually less with the lead screws force conversion)
But i am trying to get a ball park estimate here to base my calculations on

>>1803527
>the servos also need certain amount of power to push the spindle into the material

The problem is, the proportion varies wildly depending on the material, cutter geometry, cutter engagement, and whether you're doing a climb or conventional cut.

With a dull tool/insert and a deep slotting/routing operation in a hard material, it's going to take a lot of force to push the tool through the material. At the other end of the spectrum, you could be doing a profiling operation using a climb cut in a grabby material and say 20% tool engagement, it's possible that the machine would actually have to pull slightly _against_ the direction of feed, as the tool would be trying to pull itself forward.


But, as was mentioned, the spindle motor is generally far more powerful than those on the motion system. Anecdotally, the router I built has a 2kW spindle on it, and the steppers max out under 150W each. Servos for medium-ish commercial machines (say 5-20HP) generally sit at a few hundred watts continuous, though, obviously, they can do much more than that for short periods.

>>1803541
>steppers
which ones? nema 23 or nema 34 or even bigger?

>>1803541
If we ignore the additional force you need just to keep the more powerful spindle in place:
Wouldn't it need less force to push through the material since it removes the material more quickly?

>>1803363
Good job, though I must say I am not surprised one went completely astray. What did you use this parts for?

>>1803527
Main spindle on my mori is 20hp max and the servos are something like 2 to 2.5 hp I'd have to go look.

>>1803560
so you telling me it would win a tug of war against 19 horses? no way

>>1803565
people are driving 800W routers through wood with 10W Nema17 steppers.

>>1803546

NEMA 23. 48V/3A.

>>1803547

For the same tool geometry and cut parameters, moving the spindle through more material takes more power, period.

If you lower the chipload and increase RPM to get the same/greater MRR (which is what I think you're getting at), you can get a reduction in the force required to move the axes, but that comes with caveats. The obvious one is that this only works up to a point, especially with insert tooling, which generally isn't as sharp as HSS or solid carbide. The other is that tool life tends to suffer, since you're taking many more cuts for the same amount of material removed.

That's also ignoring potential issues with surface finish, heat-sensitive materials, or tool RPM limits.

>>1803565
Power and force are different things. The cutters are often discussed in terms of power, since that's a limiting factor in how quickly it can remove material. The servos that move things around need far less power (force times distance per second), but they apply a lot more force. They just apply their force at a much slower speed than the cutters.

>>1803565
for 15 minutes or so

>>1803548
Building my own LR-300 out of a bargain bin AR15

>>1803560
>>1803565
>>1803568
>>1803579
Don't forget gear reduction when it applies. 1 HP at 300000RPM is fuckall, 1HP at 0.003 RPM will move the Earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQKN9dCjoCQ

muh dick

>>1803987
is that for the gas key?

>>1804098
Yep.

>>1803110
We have a chinkshit one at work. We bought it because ER-32 sets can be pretty cheap and we only really use our bridgeports for one off, shop repair type stuff. ERs have a pretty great range of sizes and have a better clamping range than R8s. I still don't use the adapter that often but it's good to have when you need it.

Dumb question, which is faster for a router? For a given SFM, large tool, lower rpm/power, or small tool max rpm/power, once you adjust doc?

how accurate should a half decent 100mm 3 jaw lathe chuck be in terms of clamping shit well centred? mine isn't bad but not great, should i just get used to tapping the work piece with a plastic hammer and indicating, or is there anything I can do? there is virtually no runout on the spindle bore or backing plate, and i can turn shit to be concentric no issue, just not sure what to expect in terms of self-centring performance bros...

>>1804215
It is a dumb question. Think about it some more and rephrase the question. Generally speaking though, you'll want higher RPMs and smaller tools for a router.
>>1804227
You can google this, but in the range of 2-4 thou is normal runout, 50-100 microns. I kept beating my (almost completely new) chuck until I got to 20 micron runout, but that's beyond normal specs. If you really want high precision, you need to get an independent 4-jaw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCNG5RXcA3s

^I only wish I could be so cool looking using an old lathe.

>>1804282

Is there a good knockoff of the Kurt 3600V out there?

>>1804483
Does Vertex sell one?

>>1803579
Imagine being this much of a machinist, I'm jealous of your knowledge

>>1804232
>It is a dumb question. Think about it some more and rephrase the question. Generally speaking though, you'll want higher RPMs and smaller tools for a router.
I'm basically asking if there's ever a good reason to run a 1/4 endmill at 4000 rpm instead of a 1/8 endmill at 8000 rpm.

what does it mean when the drawbar on a bridgeport is failing to pull the drill chuck into the taper? as far as I can tell the threads aren't stripped and there's never been a key in the spindle.

>>1804287
looks good what tool did you use for the profiling?

>>1804664
>I'm basically asking if there's ever a good reason to run a 1/4 endmill at 4000 rpm instead of a 1/8 endmill at 8000 rpm.

If anything, you have it backwards. Generally speaking, you always want to run the largest endmill that you can that will still fit where you need it to go. Larger endmills have higher MRR, simply because they have more cutting edge to...you know...cut with. They're also harder to break, which starts to become very relevant once you get down to the <1/4" range, or are using long/extended cutters.

For routers working with soft materials, specifically, a 1/4" can be pushed a lot harder than a 1/8". Unless your spindle is severely underpowered, you'll break a 1/8" end mill long before the motor's tapped out.

>>1804687
That's what I'm not getting. People recommend small tools and high rpms for routers. It seems like running a spindle motor at 50% rpms/power means maybe less MRR because you need shallower DOC to compensate, which also puts more load on the end of the endmill.

Or is this just basically that 1/8 endmills in particular are shit because they break?

>>1801557
I would do a full rough semi finish

Do a rough with a standard endmill, then lace the whole thing with like a 3 or 4mm ball. Then finish with the 1mm

>>1804686
1/8" 2fl ball, uncoated. took for-fucking-ever

remove most of it with an adaptive and a 1/8 3fl square
then 1/8 2fl ball and
>a morphed spiral toolpath with a wide stepover 0.0625"
>another with a narrower stepover, 0.006"
>then a regular spiral with 0.0045" stepover
>finally a parallel at 0.0035" stepover

>>1804820
it really does look pretty good, too bad the 1/8 3fl square left an ass surface finish on the flat parts.

>>1804700
There's a completely different aspect to it, namely, torque and power. The average spindle motor will have, at best, a 3000-12000RPM range. It will deliver the most overall power at 12000RPM (say, 500W), and a lot less power at 3000RPM (maybe 100W).
Conversely, a big tool needs lower RPM and more torque, which these spindle motors cannot usually deliver. So you'd have to compensate with a low DoC and maybe lower feeds. So if you want to get the most power out of your spindle, and the most speed overall, you'll want to find some sweet spot tool for the given material, which you can run at maximum spindle RPM. This will always depend on the specific material and operation you're doing.
Also this applies more to spindles without a feedback loop, a hall effect sensor on the motor can compensate for this to an extent.

>>1804822
How tacky.
Why don't you make something actually useful like a shelf or a chair?

>>1804877
>hey mom I made you a shelf for mothers day
Something tacky is much more appropriate for the occasion.

>>1804880
My mother would abort me if i gave her something like that, if you can't use it for anything then what is the point?
I made her a cool wooden lamp for mothers day

>>1804846
That's what I was trying to ask, it's better to find the tool that lets you run at max rpm then?

Is there a reason to go from 1/8" to 1/4" for a router if rpms have to be reduced?

>>1804903
Well as I said, it depends, but generally you should try to run near the max RPM, especially with simple DC spindles. If 1/8 gives you the right RPM and power output for the given material, then you should use the 1/8. The 1/4 is more rigid by nature of being bigger, but it's not going to matter if you don't have the power to run it.

it's finally here!
look how cute it is

>>1804883
women love useless shit tho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta0s_Sopd_4

@15mins or so, the tap with the relieved sections so the chips go into the flutes of the tap

pretty dank if you ask me

Alright, most of my fuckups to the giant 8" bearing in the turret is undone.

>>1804912
What's the runout?

>>1805151
no idea and the seller doesn't specify it and i don't have that meter thing
but that thing is heavy like motherfucker and you can feel it is pretty good quality, so whatever the runout is it's fine for me as i will mostly use it to cave shit like figurines from broom handles

Well, i'm sold.
Putting my order in right now.

>>1805327
Listing aside, not sure I'd buy a digital indicator, analog are already so easy to use and don't need batteries.

>>1805332
The big advantage of digital is being able to zero at a touch of a button.

>>1805327
>>1805399

Digital travel indicators are horrible for trying to indicate runout.

>>1805508
why?

>>1805508
Yes, but you can have both. It's not really either or.

my new son has finally arrived and is ready to join the family

i love how they put portective plastic cover ON HE FUCKING ANVIL so it won't get scratched during transport and is nice and scratch free for when you HIT IT WITH A FUCKING HAMMER

>>1805794
it's probably oil filled paper that they stick to the unpainted parts to keep them from rusting

chances are the casting is porous enough it will rust up like a cheap nail as soon as it's removed.

>>1805847
shieeet why not just paint it then?

>>1805860
and waste the extra paint??

stupid gweilo!

>>1805860
"Precision" surfaces do not get painted on anything, ever. In the case of these, it's probably more because in those areas paint would get stripped off anyway. But they look like they were ground, so they're probably also relatively flat.

>>1805732
Imagine chucking a piece in a 4-jaw in a lathe and sticking a standard dial indicator on it. As you rotate it the dial hand has a nice gentle sweep back and forth as you tighten and loosen the jaws to get the piece indicated in. You stick a digital indicator on the same piece and it nothing but numbers moving extremely rapidly high and low. It's one of those things you have to try for yourself, it always took me twice as long to try to indicate runout with a digital vs a dial.

>>1805762
Digital indicators are awesome when used on a granite surface plate with gauge blocks.

How did they machine barrel cams before 4 axis mills?

>>1805953
probably a casting or something

>>1805972
>>1805953
I'm thinking somehow it could be done with a rotary table mounted vertically on a horizontally mounted rotary table. That way you don't need to move the X or Y axis on the mill only the Z and rotate the part.

>>1805732
hes right about them being not the most ideal, but his reason is an idiots reason. , i use my digimatic on my 4jaw chuck and its easy as fuck, the reason its bad is because its not the proper tool.
>Digital indicators are awesome when used on a granite surface plate with gauge blocks.
this is the best use for a dial plunger indicator, for things like runout and table sweep, dial test indicator/comparator
https://www.cnccookbook.com/dial-indicators-dial-test-indicators-easy-guide-2018/

for your chinky 4th axis thought,you will be fine

>first time using an interapid indicator
>"the fuck is happening"

Why are all machinists pretentious assholes? You make riggers look humble.

>>1806088
Autism?

Im going to be tapping into cast iron, with metric taps
I do not have the metric drill it calls for, 4.2mm so I will use an imperial equivalent. Should I go over or undersize?
I will be using a #19 or a #20. The hole will be ~2 thou over or under. Which is going to work better in cast?

>>1806145
probably oversize

>>1806088
Because it takes a certain type of anal person to pays very close attention to tight tolerances and the fine details where a single small mistake can cost you hours and hours of work on a level that most people simply dont understand. A small mistake that can crash a machine and cost you thousands of dollars in a second.
Dont get me wrong, its not the hardest work in the world.
We still use a book with black and white, non negotiable references written over 100 years ago.
It comes down to knowledge and execution. And it turns out the type of people who obsesses over the actual workflow tend to be cold and calculated.

You want to buddy buddy with some free flowing faggots who just can slap shit together willy nilly, go over to the woodworking general.

>>1806155
Bro, I can see you've never made a good handmade wood joint using hand tools like a chisel.

https://www.familyhandyman.com/tools/woodworking-tools/how-to-use-a-wood-chisel/

Cope harder with your fucking machines

>>1806180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC6DciZQoys

>>1806197
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrB7h1U3jxY

>>1806180
Very crafty but not at nearly the same level of precision.

>>1806145
#20 0.1610 4.0894
4.1 mm 0.1614 4.1000
4.2 mm 0.1654 4.2000
#19 0.166 4.2164
4.3 mm 0.1693 4.3000

i always use a #19 for m5 anyways

>>1805953
2 linear + 1 rotary axis mills

>>1806197
>>1806199
Lol I was just trolling with >>1806180

I did a little machining in college (had to make a blunt cone with some holes in it that can fit a piezoelectric sensor to put into a wind tunnel). Shit was definitely harder than making stuff in my woodshop class in high school. The whole thing made me appreciate woodworking so much more because you can do it with your hands only, it's so flexible when it comes to mistakes, and it's less nerve wracking. I do miss making cool CAD models and talking with the machinist since he had so many tips and interesting stories. :^(

I've been trying to remove this pin that was broken off in a blind hole for the last 3 months. nothing I was trying was working so I just decided to drill it out today, but now I'm stuck with this little bit at the bottom that the drill doesn't remove. is an endmill the only way? I think the hold diameter is .096 and .125 deep.

>>1806308
Can you use a hardened pin like a chisel can break up the last little bit?

>>1806314
that was my original plan but the pin is too hard.

>>1806308
>>1806316
Can't you use lava or something to melt it?

>>1806308
you could go through the middle with a 1/16 drill and try to hydraulic it out with a grease gun with a needle tip

>>1806088
We may come off as pretentious, but when we tell hobbyist or engineers that their shit don't work, it's not out of malice, it's out of experience and frustration. Especially towards engineers who don't have any understanding of machining and it's limitations, and how metrology and quality control work. It's also frustrating when people tell us CNC machining is easy, as if we just throw shit at the machine and it does everything for us, I was even told once that it was pointless to measure anything because all the parts come out perfect, which couldn't be further from the truth.

>>1806358
I think it's true for many industries. Even software despite how abstract it is.

>>1806358
>It's also frustrating when people tell us CNC machining is easy
but it is son
how to be a machinist:
step 1: take block of metal
step 2: put it in a machine
step 3: press green button
step 4: talk sports with other boomers around you while siiiiiiiiipping monster ZERO
step 5: take the finished part out of the machine
step 6:got o step 1

Would you prefer to mill out an AR lower manually or CNC? I wrote a lower 80 program a year ago and never proofed it, all the lowers I've done in the last year have all been conversationally programmed on a Bridgeport. Something about setting up a production machine to do one part off the clock feels shitty despite it probably being faster

>>1806088
We make less than an entry level receptionist to have 4 days off a year and work 65 hours a week to deal with brain surgery tier details day to day. Our lives are hell. Any other trade on Earth pays better, and is much easier. A licensed plumber in my area is averaging 30 dollars an hour. Average machinist makes 18.

>>1806548
Then quit sissy

>>1806545
would rather CNC it because woops went a tenth too far on the DRO just bugs the shit out of me.

And if you CNC it you can walk out the finish pass to the dimensions you want.

>>1806545
I did mine on cnc since you can use high speed toolpaths and flood coolant

Literally 0 decent tabletop lathes exist, correct?

>>1806957
correct

>>1806545
CNC is magnificent and well worth the effort for the combo of convenience and precision. My machine shop ownerbro does his from billet and as you know a stick of billet is cheap. (If you don't normally buy metal, always get three quotes because prices can vary almost randomly.)

>>1806957
Unless you consider little legit toolroom lathes "tabletop", correct.

The answer is get good at creative machinery handling then buy larger tools. I don't pay riggers and move full-size machine tools easily and more safely than by forklift by manual methods.

>>1806963
Don't worry I don't plan on jumping into fuckhueg machinery from the get-go
I have access to maker spaces, I'm just ensuring that I'm not missing anything

>>1806960
does he do it 5 axis or multiple 3 axis setups? is the magwell broached or milled?

>>1806957

There are "decent" small machines if you literally have no other options due to space constraints. But, for the money, you will almost always be better off with something weighing at least half a ton.

Ironically, you may actually pay _less_ for the latter machine.

For reference, I have a 7x14 mini lathe, branded by Sieg. Bought it new along with basic tooling, quick-change toolpost, larger 4-jaw chuck, and drill chuck for the tailstock. Total was a little over $800, if I remember right.

I also got a clapped-right-the-fuck-out 17" LeBlond from the 50s, weighing in at about 4500lbs, from a shop that was closing and needed it gone yesterday. Included a 10" chuck and quick-change toolpost, holders, random tooling, and bucket of scraps. $150. Hardly any more than it cost me to rent the trailer to move it.

Guess which one I use more often? The LeBlond was heavily abused, so caked with dirt that parts didn't work correctly (tailstock, compound, and threading dial were effectively jammed before I cleaned them), and there is visible wear on the screws and power feed shaft. It's _still_ used far more often than the mini. It may not be able to hold tenths anymore, but it's good enough for 95% of my turning and, as long as the workpiece isn't super small, will remove material easily 10x faster than the mini, while being capable of better surface finish. A couple of my recent parts simply wouldn't fit on the mini.

>>1807020

Also, the most infuriating bit about this is that there's really no reason the mini should be as useless as it is. It's a decent little machine, but it could be so much better if the fit and finish in a few key areas was better.

Specifically, the cross-slide gib is so badly made that the whole thing rocks to the side under minimal load, dramatically limiting your depth of cut. The compound isn't much better.

I understand the lack of gearbox for the lead screw, but sticking an electronic gearbox on there wouldn't add hugely to the BOM. Doing so would make setting up for threading a breeze instead of a massive pain in the ass, and the power feed would be far more usable if you weren't stuck with a single axial DOC without screwing with change gears.

Shit makes me wonder if I shouldn't just start ordering partially-finished mini lathes, make them not be so crap, and corner the wannabe-machinist market.

>>1806957
Depends what you're doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_VoTaibrzc

more Kern 5 axis

>When you touch your tools off using .0001s

>why i touch tools off using .0001s

>>1807404
But apparently I'm still too retarded to post a proper picture...

>>1807406
4chan strips the exif metadata so people don't inadvertently dox themselves. That metadata contains the rotation information.

>>1807404

>>1807413
nice big mill table

mmm industrial

>>1802961
i put a 300 dollar dro on an old mill like that, i cant complain

I want a 6mm 7x LOC tool for aluminum and I can't decide if I should get single or 2-flute. Single flute has better chip evacuation, double flute is stiffer. Speed/productivity doesn't really matter. Thoughts?

>>1807504
2 flute because 1flute is speciality item for plastics/wood or something

>>1807504
3 flute variable helix zrn coating

Do welders seem mechanically retarded to anyone else?

How do I get a job working on stuff like this?

https://youtu.be/TowYdhn8AeI?t=245

>>1807504
3-flute endmills work awesome for aluminum, I'm partial to no coating, but high polish.

>>1807664
ZRN coating is supposed to help with aluminum building up on the endmill right? if he is using a chink router with no coolant he might be better off with coated.

Kern day 16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NEv_TJ1gkk

>>1807664
>>1807517
>>1807520
For 7x LOC though? CNC cookbook says single flute is great for deep pockets but I've never actually used single flute.

Also I don't have a specific use for the cutter, I just realized that I'm sometimes running close to the limits of my 4x LOC cutters and I just want an extra long tool just in case because it's better to have a usable suboptimal tool than sitting on my ass with no tool at all.

>>1807666
If you're on a chink router with no coolant, go 1 or 2 flute. Coating might help, ZRn isn't bad, TiCN is fine too.

TiAlN is bad for alu. TiN is meh.

>>1807683
chink routers can use 1/8 endmills right?

I wonder how a 1/8 high feed mill would work on a router for cutting steel?

https://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/120diameter516reachhighfeedmill.aspx

>>1807723
Carbide 3D showed milling steel with the Nomad.

For my 3-jaw chuck, can I just buy some compatible outside jaws, stick something in the middle, then grind the exposed jaws? Is it that simple or am I missing something?

>>1807723
Possible, depends of his router. Might not be able to feed fast enough, might run out of torques.

Is a CNC Mill possible at home?
t. Average 3dprinting retard with minor machining knowledge
Even super old grinders can cost as much as a new Cadillac, I'm looking at cheap CNC Mills for around $25K but that seems to expensive, is it possible for less than $10K? Precision is not important since I'd like to be able to make custom metal parts at home and they don't require aerospace tolerances.

>>1807733
>>1807723
Also, I think cutting aluminum with a highfeed will be very prone to melting/galling.

I'd look into Harvey 2FL stub flute long neck endmills, personally.

>>1807733
feed mills call for some crazy RPM too, but yeah the feed rates

>>1805732
because it's a less effective visual indicator, i.e you're reading digits rather than watching a needle swing one way or the other. you don't care about digits when measuring/correcting run-out, just that the there is none (or very little).

>>1806957
Sieg SC4 is pretty decent, depending on what you're doing. I guess it's one of the better chink lathes in terms of capability, but it's never going to get close to a decent old machine in good order.

>tfw half million dollar machine runs windows 2000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqQGv_3GyK0

>>1807957
Most Mori Seikis work in a similar way, their controller software runs on top of windows. What sucks is that there is a noticeable delay between screens as they render in, measured in seconds. Personally not a fan of the controllers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u-R3xd6KB0

>>1808044
seems like a minor issue to me personally, I sent DMG Mori the service request documents and they never called back so I guess I just assume they're on the way wednesday or thursday?

>>1807957
I'm pretty sure my $250k wire edm runs Windows 98 desu

>>1808062
'98 wasn't a bad vintage

>>1807957
2000 is the greatest version of Windows ever created. I miss it, I was still using it in 2010 on certain computers.

can somebody redpill me on Titan Gilroy? his videos are 90% cringe, how does anybody actually enjoy them. it's like dog the bounty hunter larping as a machinist without the broad with the big tits

>>1808137
I refuse to watch them, I also refuse to watch NYC CNC.

>>1808145
I can't stand Saunders either. I tried listening to his and Grimsmo's Business of Machining podcast for a bit but I got sick of them verbally fellating each other constantly over the most trivial shit.

I like Grimsmo enough, he's an autist who does weird shit I don't understand like spending $20k epoxying a building he's only renting, but you gotta respect his hustle

This may be a better fit for /sqt/, but here I go anyway.

I am creating a L/U shaped part (a handle for a small rotary cutter), pic related. The dimensions are about 12x10 cm. One of the three holes at the bottom will hold the blade (haven't decided on the position yet), and I will press down with maybe a third of my body weight (direction of the arrow). Maximum thickness is 6 mm.
I was thinking of getting a 12x10cm piece cut off from a sheet of metal and taking out waste material with an angle grinder and drill the holes with an appropriate bit.

Now, I'm wondering which material to use and what thickness.
Concerns are mostly stability and ease of machining, considering I only have drill bits of questionable quality with hand held drills and an angle grinder available. Of course I don't want to pay an arm and a leg either.
First thought was to just use 2-4 mm thick stainless steel or whatever other bog standard material I can get at a local supplier. I'm afraid Aluminum will be too easily bent when I lean on it with too much weight.

Does that sound reasonable? Any other suggestions?

>>1801667
You'll do great.

Does this look good enough for $50 or am I ripping them off?

>>1808210
I think it looks kinda shitty, but that price seems right.

>>1808211
I guess I could engrave the inside of all the letters and fill it with black epoxy or something.

>>1808212
You could, sure. Why though? What's the customer expecting? Is that the finished product?

>>1808216
customer is expecting something in the shape of the state with a name on it

>>1808217
So you're gonna cut off the surrounding parts in the end?

>>1808218
No it stays on the square back part.

>>1808210
Looks like it should be tumbled or something.
But yeah... 50 bucks. Fuckin fine. How big is it?

>>1808223
It's only 16" x 4" x 1"

>>1808222
If you want to make it nicer then you definitely need to hide the tool marks. And if you want to make it look good, the letters need a different color/patina/whatever from the background. If using epoxy is easier for you than polishing it up, go for it.

>>1808229
This. Like I said, I'd tumble it and maybe brush the letters.
BUT. What do they expect for 50 bucks.

>>1802762
>>1802776

I've done that for a part at one point, 32" long 1.770" bore through 3" monel stock on a lathe, I came in from each end with a series of long (18") drill bits so that the holes would overlap by about 4" in the center. As you went up in drill sizes the bores would get progressively closer to lining up until after the final drill they were only 0.007" off or so. To finish it I just used a reamer mounted on a bar with a pilot a few thou smaller than the tightest point of the drilled hole, it worked out pretty well although a gundrill would've been the better way to do it.

>>1808229
I just now hit it with some flat stones, they are doing wonders.

>>1808232
nope, scratched it

maybe I will sandblast it or something

>>1808242
you know... fine grit sandpaper might work but then it would be hard to get into the letters

bbl finding sandblast gun

>>1808247
letters need to pop & need real sandblast cabinet

>>1808261

>>1808264
>>1808261
Is that your signature?

>>1808279
lol

>>1808279
woops missed some spots, will probably need to blast it again anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bqNLuAVyzc

>>1808293
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=166PXVB4f6g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfrmIMf_tTE

More Kern

>>1808224
>It's only 16" x 4" x 1"

What material? It looks like a simple part, but when you add up programming, tooling and machine time, it seems like $50 is basically working for free.

>>1808330
oh yeah It's definitely not job shop rate, aluminum and used some dull end mills

I need to make a plastic gear for my plating barrel. The pitch seems to be .75" but all the gears in the mcmaster carr catalog have pitch diameter not pitch from tooth to tooth.

>>1808366
measure the pitch circle, count the number of teeth, now you know how many teeth per inch, bam that's your diametral pitch.

>>1808162
Whats this tool for anon? You're going to put 1/3rd of your body weight on a sheet metal tool with a circular saw on it? Sounds incredibly flimsy and like something that will end up hurting you. I don't even know how you would put you body weight on it without the thin sheet metal digging into your hand and also the thing bending out of shape. What I'd suggest is you get 1"/26mm+ thick plastic sheet and cut your handle out of that if you don't have the tools to work steel. I'd also modify the design so that the first thing your hand does if it slips is not hit the circular blade which is exposed right underneath your hand. In general the tool doesn't look like it be all that useful, you'd be better off buying the proper tool for whatever it is you're doing.

>300mm dependent-independent used 4-jaw for $300
If only it was a 200mm and $100 cheaper, it'd be my dream chuck. I don't know if I should buy it. Probably can't be run at more than 1000RPM and I do work on small parts often.

>>1808466
It's a more comfortable handle for pic related, a rotary cutter for fabric. If you cut a lot and don't want to shell out money for a proper industrial electric rotary cutter, these get very uncomfortable as you have to bend your wrist to apply more pressure.
The blade will of course get a guard, and the part where the hand itself sits will get a more comfortable wooden handle -- the metal part is basically the "tang".
I omitted these details because they seemed irrelevant to the question.
But looking at your picture, using just a bit more material that covers the upper part of the blade is an even easier way to attach a guard. Thanks!

Some hard plastic would definitely be an option. As I will be using commercially available replacement blades with the OEM "shaft", washers, etc, I have a maximum thickness of 6,5 mm at the blade. It seems to me that I'd have a lot more work shaping a thicker plastic to the right dimensions than just working with the steel. I also have no idea what kind of plastic to buy.
You think I will have a lot of trouble cutting out that shape with an angle grinder and drilling a few holes? I mean I don't expect to be finished in a minute, but surely an hour will be enough to work through ~30 cm of ~3-4 mm steel.

>>1808466
Also, of course your drawing is just a sketch, but I want to minimize the distance between the blade and the hand as much as possible to reduce the sideways forces as I press down.

>>1807027
>Shit makes me wonder if I shouldn't just start ordering partially-finished mini lathes, make them not be so crap, and corner the wannabe-machinist market.
this is already what several resellers do. i bought the axminster version of the sieg sc4 and it's great (for what it is), with zero issues out of the box but still an air of china about it.
a lot of firms do the same with chinese inverter welders as well, i.e. tickle them up and check/replace any shit parts and sell them on for a profit.

>>1807729
yeah, technically speaking, but you'd want some sort of decent fit as a starting point, although if it's just a chink chuck then many are the same pattern or very similar so it's perfectly feasible.

>>1808534
I wonder if a rifle pistol grip would be a good handle? Or perhaps a pre-made handle would work well enough? Check mcmaster anon.

>>1808330
Jesus Christ, $50? That thing took what, an hour in the mill? Plus programming and setup + material? Bro, what are you even doing? I'd be charging at least a hundred bucks, and that's if I was bored / knew the person personally.

I don't understand why machinists are always so afraid of expecting proper compensation for their work, and then bitch that we're underpaid. You ever had a quote from a welder to fab up a shitty 2 x 2' frame? Rag on them all you want, but at least they know how to charge a proper rate per hour.

>>1808599
literally just put a round blade on a tape gun, and presto

>>1808619
Yeah I know I know... The customer keeps buying these fucking things though and I should be able to get the pricing down by now.

>>1808623
I mean anon, a repeat 1-off still needs setup. If he was ordering in quantity, there's a discount, but repeated one-offs still get all the setup charge put into them in my shop.

I seriously hope you own your workspace / machines to be short-changing yourself like that.

>>1808619
>I don't understand why machinists are always so afraid of expecting proper compensation for their work, and then bitch that we're underpaid.

It's really a problem on both sides. The customers balk at paying the costs and the machinists are afraid to charge what something is worth in most cases. People won't bat an eye at paying for plumbers, hvac, electricians or automotive repairs, but if you quote machining something at $80-$125 Hour shop rate they freak out.

>>1808650
>People won't bat an eye at paying for plumbers, hvac, electricians or automotive repairs, but if you quote machining something at $80-$125 Hour shop rate they freak out.

I don't know where you live, but if a plumber or electrician worked in my house for 10 hours and hit me with a $1250 labor bill I'd do more than "bat an eye". I'm not saying you shouldn't charge for your time and capital investment, but they have the same deal, not to mention driving to and from every work site, and occasionally having to drive to the supply store as well. Everything looks expensive from the outside.

>>1808621
Blade needs to be lower unfortunately.

>>1808640
" " setup " " was slapping a block of aluminum in the vise though

>>1808534
I wouldn't use >>1808162 then. You put the blade right next to your knuckles. No matter what it's made of, you might just slip and slice open your knucks.

>>1808666
nice trips
and hey, you do you but you're undervaluing your time to charge $50 for that. sure, it was 'only' slapping the block in the vise (~$500 for a decent one) on your CNC machine (idk about you, but ~$100k) in your shop (rent / mortgage shekels) using your electricity to power your cutters (~$50 ea)

idk man. i value my time and investments more than you, i guess.

new robrenz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrHD01b0WW0

>>1808714
Oh yeah if it were any other customer they would be paying for it. I made the post about $50 being too much almost jokingly, but how shitty the finish was from the dull endmills had me wondering.

>>1808666

>Cut stock
>Deburr
>Machine is set-up with previous jobs fixture plate.
>Remove fixture plate and clean up table.
>Clean and install vise and indicate in.
>Put parallels in and "slap" stock in vise.
>I have a probe, so run program to probe stock to establish G54 offset.
>Stock is done now onto tooling
>Remove tool holders I need.
>Install tooling into tool holders (let's say 4 tools to do job)
>Have tool setter so call up program and set tool offsets.
>Input tool numbers into program.

Setup is finished.

>>1808728
>do machine warmup procedure
>clean crap out of vise, run it back and forth, lubricate it
>open toolbox with parallel set
>find parallels the right height
>set stock in the vise
>clamp it down, don't need to indicate flat because lol no tolerances
>probe zero point
>use tools I already have loaded to machine part
>flip between standing in front of machine and sitting in front of PC making small changes for an hour, shitposting mostly

>>1808733
>>1808728

Exactly. Also the hundreds if not thousands of hours of training / experience to know how to do all of those things correctly, program it, know what speeds / feeds to use, etc etc etc.

Guys, our trade is not simple if you are anywhere beyond a button-pushing operator. The costs related to barrier to entry are immense. You aren't some dick fucking around in his garage with a power drill, so don't charge like it. Charging shit amounts of money for jobs leads to more fucktards in my shop shitting up my day with their
>but this only cost $50 at shop down the street
when they're holding a $350 job in their hands

I don't mean to be mad / hostile but this is part of why rate per hours are hard to hit these days. There are a lot of factors larger, but this one doesn't help

>>1808753
The equipment isn't cheap either. Check the Practical Machinist forums for how crazy cut throat machining is and why a large proportion fail.

Is there good guide for an initial setup of a hobby lathe (bench size)? All I seem to find are bozos who are doing unboxing and uniformed to marginally useful reviews. Nothing about how to set it up, what to clean, check for, etc.

>>1808758
Did you not get a manual with it? In any case, just put oil in all the nipples you can find every 10-50 hours of work, replace transmission system oil every ~2000 hours, don't get abrasive/metal dust anywhere on the machine, that's about it. Look for some general lathe maintenance videos. You could get autistic with leveling and shit, but a $500 chink lathe will probably have bigger problems than a not level surface. I think ThisOldTony has an unfucking video about his mini-lathe.

>>1808758
do most of your work at like 600 rpm because low end torque sucks, don't try to spin anything heavy or off-balance, and don't get hurt

>>1808534
>>1808550
Taking your original design as an example, if you make it out of thin material I could see it bend or wobble. I would make it out of at least 4mm+ sheet metal and make it as compact as possible to make it as stiff as possible. As for the handle, if you have a big enough drill you could drill holes at the ends of the handle and use an angle grinder or dremel to cut out the excess. In plastic you could even drill out all the material and file out the high spots. You could probably even make the tool out of wood.

>>1808786
>I would make it out of at least 4mm+ sheet metal and make it as compact as possible to make it as stiff as possible
Yes, that was the plan. I happen to have a machinist square in the approximate dimensions and 5mm thickness, and that seems very rigid.
I thought about wood, and I have all the required tools, but with 2 right angles I would either have to use plywood or joint three pieces of wood to get the grain oriented in a sensible way. At that point I might as well go metal.
Regarding the suggestion for the handle, that design won't work as the tool will be held at an angle. The handle needs to be open without a support at the end as seen in
>>1808162
Fortunately that makes machining it a lot easier. It's also the reason why I want to use a stronger material in the first place.
I'll also check with a local metalworking shop/locksmith how much they would charge for manufacture of that piece.

>>1808755
their YouTube isn't half bad either

I need help programming a single point threading cycle on Mitsubishi m70 controller for a Swiss screw machine. By most accounts of all the experienced machinists I know, this controller is one of the worst modern controllers ever created, with the least user friendly interface imaginable. The handbook explains nothing but start points, end points, depths of cut and lead angels which are self explanatory but says nothing about feed and speed calculations to get specific TPI/metric thread pitches. How the fuck do I program a m14x2?

>>1808881
I would imagine you program it as inch instead of metric, instead of switching the control to interpret everything as metric and then switching back.

>>1808927
Converting between the two is simple. What I'm asking is how do I calculate a 2mm thread pitch? How do I set my feedrate to match my spindle rpm to produce a 2mm pitch? There has to be a formula

>>1808958
https://cncprograming.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-to-make-thread-program-in-g32-fanuc.html

Example:-

M20 x 1.5 P x 4MM Length

( OD THREAD )
N1 G28 U0.0 W0.0 ; ( Home Position )
N2 G00 T0101 ; ( Number One Tool Selection )
N3 G97 S500 M03; ( Spindle Speed And Direction Selection )
N4 G00 X22.0 Z1.0 M08; ( safe position & coolant on )
N5 G00 X18.50 ; ( Thread cutting point X Axis )
N6 G32 Z-4.00 F1.5; ( Thread cutting 4MM length )
N7 G00 X22.0; ( Position Return )
N8 M09 M05 ; ( coolant off , spindle stop )
N9 G28 U0.0 W0.0; ( Home Position Return )
M30; ( Program End )
%


>>1808958
Er uh I'm not sure what you're asking.

Do you mean converting metric thread pitch to standard? Or are you asking about a combination of feed and speed to simulate a threading canned cycle (G32) ?

>>1808958
>How do I set my feedrate to match my spindle rpm to produce a 2mm pitch?

You don't. At least, not the way that I think you're thinking. You set the machine to feed-per-revolution (synchronous feed) mode.

As an example, on one of my machines (LinuxCNC controlled) it would just be:

G21 (Set units to mm)
G95 (Set feed/rev mode) F2 (2mm/rev)


If I'm wrong about what you mean and the controller actually doesn't support a mode like this (which seems outright insane for any controller, doubly so for one on a screw-cutting machine), then, yeah, you'd need to figure out a relationship between spindle speed and RPM. But that's simply a matter of just multiplying RPM by desired pitch. As an example, 600RPM divided by 2mm gives you 1200mm/min. This should make sense, intuitively, because spinning a 2mm threaded rod 600 times would move a nut 1200mm across it. This still wouldn't really work, though, because the machine isn't going to care about small fluctuations in spindle speed while feeding asynchronously. 90% chance the thread won't be picked back up on the second/third pass.


Also, according to the manual I found with 2 seconds of Google:

https://dl.mitsubishielectric.com/dl/fa/document/manual/cnc/ib1500042/ib1500042g.pdf

The M70 controller supports G95, so...

>>1808989
This is what Fusion spits out for a M14x2 for Fanuc.

G32 Z-2.892 F0.07874

F 0.07874 so it converted 2mm pitch to inch and used that

Apparently there is also G76 for more in-depth threading cycle goodness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTHKdPwrAUg

>going between mill, surface plate, and assembly room trying to figure setup for job
>boomer boss walks in and sees parallel box sitting on top of tool chest
>throws them on the floor and reprimands me for leaving tools sitting out
literally what the fuck. they were the shop's parallels so if I didn't have to spend time stoning the dents out of them I wouldn't even care, but really what the fuck. just when I think my job is starting to work out shit like this happens and makes me want to quit again.

>>1809137
>throws them on the floor
I have flayed fucking new guys for looking at parallels wrong. Your boss should be burned at the stake.

>>1809137
what the fuck indeed, did the guy not give you any warning he was getting pissy?

why would he fly off the handle like that otherwise?

>>1809172
I don't know he walked in the door, said good morning, went to his office for a while, and then the next thing I hear is shit hitting the floor. he's bitched at me before about leaving stuff on top of the toolboxes but I figured it was different when I was in the middle of using them.

>>1806503
I hope this is bait

So we got a new machine ~9 months ago. I routinely clean the tool tapers and wipe the spindle taper carefully to make sure that the spindle taper and tool tapers are clean.

I had a look up the spindle taper and was surprised and confused by what I saw. There seemed to be smooth, round "dimples" spattered on the spindle taper, I really can't see how they came to be.

We have TSC so maybe it's coolant bubbles getting pressed into the steel? Roughing cycles push the machine pretty damn hard, within 5% of stalling it day in and day out. I'll have pics tomorrow. Any ideas of what it could be?

What are some good machining youtube channels to check out? Clickspring is my fav right now

>>1808996
I'm retarded, I thought it required math but all I had to do was g92 and set the feed rate to the thread pitch

>>1809189
My dad used to do shit like that. I'd bet he's at least 50+ and won't explain shit to you?

>>1809349
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVBoxqVpfOM

What are things to know/be good at before starting a machining course?

>>1809404
Righty tighty left loosy, knowing when to stop torquing a bolt to get it as tight as possible without damaging it, knowing how to remove rounded bolts, the concepts of leveraging force at different angles to achieve tasks. You really won't have to do these things while machining but being able to think this way translates well to machine work concepts. just basic mechanical competency will put you light-years ahead of the booksmart nerd sitting beside you at the local community college. Also, say fucking thou. Learn it. I work with a 36 year old divorced alcoholic that has been at my shop a year and still doesn't know the difference between .5 .050 .005 and .0005. He says shit like "oh the measurement? It's uhm hold on it's uh point two four fiv- wait two inches point four five three five" don't fucking be this person for the love of God. I refuse to teach anyone anything if I explain to them different decimal places and they refuse to study it and learn it. It's just laziness on their part. If you struggle with this you should not attempt to learn this trade

>>1809210
Pic

>>1809472
defo looks like coolant, maybe even a reaction between coolant and oil or some protective lubricant film put on there

in other news, DMG Mori service worth every penny, old machine is in good shape too. Naturally I haven't got the bill yet.

>>1809472
only thing i've ever seen that comes close is hydrogen blistering.

>>1809487
that's not close though, look closely at his picture and you see some kind of corrosion going on.

probably chemical instead of metal on metal corrosion because of the white outline on the dots, some kind of chemical made those dots and when the taper clamped it squeezed and the chemical residue of the reaction is at the outside of the dots.

>>1809492
I've heard tales on practicalmachinist of the boomers switching coolant and having corrosive salts built up in the new coolant that stick to the iron of the machine and are damn near impossible to remove without a coolant expert.

>>1809472
perhaps consult coolant company, send them the picture and ask questions about it.

>>1809384
oh dope thanks!

>>1809495
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmAk5reFvj4
^let's machine is a cnc shop owner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqQGv_3GyK0
^edge precision is a cnc sole prop who built a company and sold it because his business partner was fucking him over about it (business partners are a baaad idea)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeU6Ak85Jtc
^threadexpress is an old machinist with some small machines in his new zealand small house, (tormachs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrHD01b0WW0
^robin renzetti is the undisputed master of high precision and tool room stuff

pic related is how you adjust the splined collar that holds the stationary portion in place

some set screws holding it rotationally in place.

>>1809515
and you have to move the turret down in X to get the cover off, no removal of main way covers required

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTkEl7qDY3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bB1NTsnh7E

>>1809359
today
>try to open refridgerator that's been sitting in the corner of the shop with paint or something in it to put buffing compound in it
>it's fucking iced shut
>yank on the door and it pops off the hinge
>tell him I can just remount the door so it opens from the other side
>"no I don't want to pay you to spend all day fixing a refridgerator"
>complains he has to buy another one now

What the hell, Grizzly sells cnc machines now?
https://www.grizzly.com/metalworking-cnc

Chinks must be getting desperate to sell useful equipment now.

>Siemens control
>made in China

>>1809815
They have had a bunch of different CNC stuff over the years.

>>1809820
>only $20k for 4hp flat bed with no turret

>10hp haas toolroom lathe starts at $21k

>>1808997
Here's the part if anyone's curious. You saved my ass, I spent a whole day stressing over this. This is by far the most complex part I have ever longhand programmed. Two spindles, over 500 lines of code between the two programs

What's the proper application of a t-handle tap wrench vs the long sort? I've never tapped metal but the time has come, and I am just going to buy individual parts as needed vs some bit kit of dubious quality. I want to get a good tap handle from the start. Starrett 91 and 93 seem to be high quality, but when do you use a T-handle tap wrench like the 93 vs a straight one like the 91? Not sure which one to get first, is it entirely about having enough clearance above the hole or is there something else to consider?

First hole I'm tapping is just a thread repair job with a chink sti tap but I've got future projects that need holes threaded, gonna just buy size-specific taps as they're needed.

>>1810273
Top is a 91, bottom is a 93. Any reason to pick one over the other for a first tap wrench?

>>1810273
Personally, I've never been a big fan of the tap wrench, not enough leverage. Only problem I've had with tap handles is they fall out and get caught on everything if you're working on a crowded work surface. Don't know if I'd spend the extra cash for a Starrett, a generic one will be just as good.

>>1810275
bottom ones are for tiny taps

>>1810257
why program by hand tho?

>>1810273
Depends on the context of home vs. professional, but for /diy/, t-handle are worthless. You could use them for small taps, but for small taps, I just use my cordless drill driver. Also don't be a retard like I was the other day and run the driver in drill mode, because it will break the taps, use the clutch.
You can also buy hex to square adapters for the M4-M8 range, they cost about $2.50 from China. Below M4, the chuck's grip is enough, above M8 you shouldn't be using a drill to tap and you get the straight wrench out. M8 is like 1/3" bolt thickness, no idea what's the burger denomination.

>>1810273
>What's the proper application of a t-handle tap wrench vs the long sort?
How much room you have.
The swing on the long handles is much larger than a T handle. Many times you cant physically use it as something will block the handle.
Thats where the T-handles come in. The actual handle slides left and right so you can slide it out of the way when obstructions come.
You can also crank on the long fixed handled wrenches more, which sometimes is important sometimes not. You can get good leverage on a T handle by sliding the handle to one side if you really needed it, but at a certain point you are going to break the tap.

Dont get me wrong, I love high quality tools but I wouldnt bother spending Starret money on tap wrenches, even used when you can get used greenfield tap wrenches for a fraction of the price all day long.
You will over time collect a ton of different wrenches in different sizes.

For ~$20 you can buy a brand new Schroder ratcheting T handle tap wrench, they are Made in Germany and nice. The pattern has been around a LONG time, I have several very old and new and they are great, idk how good the chink knockoffs are.
If I were to start out with only one, it would be a schroder

>>1810295
>>1810273
Also if we are being honest, the chinese made Vermont American T-Handle tap wrenches you can find for like $6 at Menards are way more than enough. They are good wrenches.

If you dont have a menards nearby, you can pay double on ebay for them, these are supposedly USA made old stock.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vermont-American-Industrial-T-Handle-Tap-Wrench-0-1-4-USA-Made-21916/114185765184

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vermont-American-Industrial-T-Handle-Tap-Wrench-1-4-1-2-USA-Made-21917/114185770935

>>1810282
Shop won't buy software and if they did I don't make enough for them to train me on it and be in a cubicle. I'm getting royally raped on pay right now, making 18 dollars an hour to program prototypes seems ridiculous to me

>>1810296
>>1810295
>>1810287
>>1810280
Thanks ya'll, since this is just a handful of jobs I think I'll get the cheaper German one for now, and keep an eye out for old decent looking tap wrenches at estate sales. I've seen some guides on simple DIY sturdy tap handles, they just require you tap some holes, so this should solve that catch 22 in case I need something more specific.

>>1810297
I don't understand the logic
>pay a guy close to 20$ an hour to fuck around in notepad for hours on end
>to save a couple of bucks on software
Yes I know industrial software is expensive, just fucking pirated like my shop did.
It's like this one retarded story about a local shop thats pays its operators to manually type in all the gcode into the machines because it won't pay a technician to come set it up properly to punch programs from the computer.

>>1810305
>used to work in a small shop where there is a need for a scaling inventory system
>boss wont buy actual software
>one guy built the system on excel spreadsheets using macros and scripts
>there is no traceability, unreliable and breaks all the time, time consuming and hard to use
>literal burden on the whole shop hurting productivity and wasting all of this one guys time (since he doesnt really know what hes doing, and one persons time in a shop is important)
>let it go on for so long, and its been so ingrained that its a huge task to try and replace it

Do it right the first time, even if you are a small shop. You would think as machinists, people would understand this logic.

>>1810257
>over 500 lines of code between the two programs

It's a threaded rod with a hex on the end and a random un-threaded collar on it. How TF did this end up being over 500 lines?

>>1810310
I work in IT consulting and it is frightening how often that scenario is played out at banks, Fortune 500 companies, healthcare, and especially the military. I've seen Excel house of cards so convoluted that they've taken years to get sorted out and transferred into a modern system. They cost a business millions in time and money because they didn't want to spend a few thousand upfront to use a real system. It's a marvel that some of these businesses function at all.

>>1810310
Had a similar thing happen where i worked. They paid a local self employed developer to make an inventory tracking, job tracking and punch card system all in one. They used it for 7 years with all it's issues only to replace it with job boss. Except we still had to use the old system for the punch card system since our taxes and deductions is too complicated for job boss so we had to punch in to two different systems everyday. They also screwed up a lot of the information transfer between systems, a lot of existing re-occurring jobs had a lot of errors like material type and the machines they are usually produced on. Its a fucking headache to get the foremen to change any of those errors because he doesn't fucking listen.

>>1810322
>and especially the military.
really? i'm rcn and havent seen it. in fact i see a lot of manual processes because people are scared of even the simplest of scripts, let alone actual software

about the only thing that we have in-house software made for is our HR tracking software, and I'm 99% sure it's some off the shelf VB solution with a few additions so the army could pass it off as its own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMIu6EHlfxA

>>1810357
To be fair the military is all kinds of disjointed; some group might be using a super modern advanced database system while others use pen and paper. I would argue the Excel jockeys are basically pen and paper tier, since they may have 'automated' their work but maintaining the automation or doing manual data parsing into it is a tedious process. There's a limit on how big a spreadsheet can be and I've seen it. There were spreadsheets in the groups I worked with that could only be managed by certain people simply because of who had a powerful enough machine to open the damn thing. When they did implement systems it's just like you said: some off the shelf solution using ancient technology that was customized just enough to make it basically unmanagable by anyone but the people who built it; they taught people after them how to maintain it, and several generations in a group of monkeys are acting entirely on tribal knowledge, performing archaic rituals of reboots and scripts that their ancestors passed down to them. If they're 'lucky' someone from the original team is available to be sucked back into the monster every now and then when something goes really bad; that person is likely in their 4th decade of DoD civilian service, so close to that sweet sweet retirement pension.

At my biggest gig I was there implementing an expensive system that was 20 years ahead of the Excel/Wordl/email/weatherdances that made up squadron operations, yet in honesty 10 years behind other hip modern open source alternatives, but of course DoD will only spring for good old fashioned Coded in America* overpriced shit from one of the major software vendors. We customized the shit out of it for them and felt bad doing it. In another 20 years they might move to a system invented 10 years from today, gods have mercy on their souls.

There is the whole DoD cloud initiative thing and some young blood in that hopefully will help the future of DoD, but archaic process is SOP.

>>1810437
>basically unmanagable by anyone but the people who built it; they taught people after them how to maintain it, and several generations in a group of monkeys are acting entirely on tribal knowledge, performing archaic rituals of reboots and scripts that their ancestors passed down to them.
I'm in comms and this describes our radio and computer network to a tee

getting info on how anything actually works is like pulling teeth, probably because no one actually has that info. Also, if you're around long enough, you start to hear the same names over and over, because it is totally true that the whole thing is run by some ex-military guy who has basically designed it all for job security above all else.

>>1810317
Well that's counting lots of skipped lines. So in reality it's probably half that. plus headers and labels and shit on both programs. It's a small machine, the part is near maximum diameter of the machine capability. Also each threading operation took about twenty passes on both roughing and finishing. Also the milling operation took shitloads of passes plus two deburring operations so nobody has to fuck around on a bench grinder for every single part, they already came out with every edge broken with a chamfer tool profiling every milled edge. All hand programmed

>>1810317
Well that's counting lots of skipped lines. So in reality it's probably half that. plus headers and labels and shit on both programs. It's a small machine, the part is near maximum diameter of the machine capability so turning took a few passes. Also the threading operation took about twenty passes on both secrions plus chasing. Also the milling operation took shitloads of passes because the maximum endmill the machine can handle is half the width of the milled surface so 4 passes per one side of the hexagon. plus two deburring operations so nobody has to fuck around on a bench grinder for every single part, they already came out with every edge broken with a chamfer tool profiling every milled edge

>>1810277
You shouldn't need "leverage" for anything small enough to fit in one.

>>1810482
Some of them go up to 1/2", I'd often have to rework parts with M12x1.75 thread, goes a lot better with a tap handle then a wrench. Even with the handle it's pretty stiff.

>>1810497
Stop using dull taps.

>>1810295
I don't get the point of racheting tap handles. all the ones where I work are like that and it's a pain in the ass because you keep having to flip the ratchet direction every turn to break chips.

>>1810531
Well you can lock the schroder/yankee ones so it doesnt ratchet.
The reason I like ratcheting tap handles is that there during hand tapping, there is usually only a small amount of the swing thats comfortable on your hands and wrists. This is especially true when you are tapping something that isnt a small part in a vise.
I would rather do small 1/4 turns in a comfortable position, flip a switch and break the chips, flip the switch and keep going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08PtPV_A1_k

>>1810440
>minor code fix becomes pivotal application
>coders keep it on the down-low because they don't want project managers slowing them down and stealing their glory
>don't do any planning or documentation
>nothing interoperates and nobody is responsible, chapter eleventy billions

>>1810581
Okay, my drills are off centered and I can't find the machine zero coordinates written down on my lathe. How do you go about getting the drill exactly center with the center of the part?

>>1810698
Dial indicator with a magnetic base mounted on the chuck. If your machine has a tool touch then use a gauge pin or the shank of the drill to touch the x axis and then manually offset by the diameter in tool geometry offset. Recall the tool using MDI afterwards and use the dial indicator to double check since it's rarely perfect with the tool touch and make adjustments. I'd also repeat the last part every time you touch tool geometry offset if you're not fond in crashing tools and start off slow during the first cycle.

Im trying to design a little AC motor bracket but am realizing I have no clue on what I really should be doing. Where should I start?

>>1810716
Start by learning how to ask questions. What tools do you have available? What materials? What kind of motor? What kind of bracket? How are you designing the part? For what purpose?

>>1810724
Im trying to put a power lift on the Z axis of my PM727 mill.
This is the Z axis crank.

>>1810728
This is the casting on the inside

>>1810729
This is the geared motor I bought.

>>1810730
I was going to tap into that plate on the machine, but I cant tap into it obviously. I didnt actually look inside of the machine.
And im not sure where in the casting it would be safe to actually drill and tap.

Im thinking
>make motor mounting plate
>boring 4 steel rods
>bolt mounting plate to the machine, through steel rods into existing holes with longer bolts.

But I have no idea if that would work or not.
Or maybe I should just bout a mounting plate then drill and tap above or below the actual Z axis plate on the machine. Im not sure at all.

>>1810731
The only guy ive seen do it online did this, he used some way oversized geared motor he had laying around, and just built a huge shelf for it. I really didnt want to go that route and thought this would be way tidier.
This motor works great moves the axis fine, but once it came down to actually making a mounting bracket its a lot harder than I thought it would be

>>1810733

>>1810731
Why can't you tap into the plate >>1810728? It looks like there still are flat zones on the other side, only some parts of it continue into the gearbox mount. You could also make a brand new plate that just goes over it and mounts using the same 4 bolts. Put in some countersunk screws to hold the gear motor's mounting points.

Anyone have experience converting a mill to flood coolant? I see two common methods, one is a tank on the work table with a drain, and coolant is poured over the work area instead of sprayed and you hope the coolant stays inside. The other method is just putting it in a box and spraying coolant everywhere and getting it all over the leadscrews and the steppers and wires and everything.

alright, time to turn this beautiful piece of black mahogany into this cherry keycap

I will probably have to use feedrates for aluminium because when i was cutting that mahogany slice with my saw it almost burned, that fucker was sweating hard
this thing is hard like god damn steel

>>1810746
Im thinking about a mount like this, this would bolt on top of the existing Z plate so I dont have to tap and drill.
Standoffs bolted to the bottom of the plate countersunk. The motor plate bolted to the standoffs.
These are real dimensions, not as much room as I thought if I am to stay on top of the existing plate.

>>1810869
Looks like there's space around it though, even if you go over the dimensions, especially towards the back, it won't matter much.

>>1810872
The length out from the machine is pretty much set. The Spider coupler only goes on the shaft so far.
But yeah if I was to overhang the bottom plate, I could add more standoffs or a different mount maybe.

Honestly though, the motor only weighs like 3 pounds and it only puts out like 5ftlb of torque.
Do you think the three .500 standoffs would be enough? I feel like it the motor just isnt strong enough to twist it or anything.

>>1810881
I would guess so, plus this isn't a precision application so even if it flexes a little, it doesn't matter.

>>1810792
keep us informed, hopefully with pictures

So how bad is the aluminum on steel thing?
I bought a ScotchBrite wheel for my bench grinder. It's a 1" arbor hole like most wheels nowadays, my grinder has a 1/2" arbor.
I want to turn down 6061 aluminum into spacers to fit the wheel on.
I've seen woodworkers sell kits made of aluminum to space out their wheels. Will it corrode and ruin my shaft over time ?

>>1810933
That seems unlikely to be a problem imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zued0_1FrLQ

Does anyone have experience with Mesa boards and linux cnc?

I decided to convert my mill with an old controller.
Servos take +-10V analog signal, with quadrature encoders on them already installed, no glass scales. There is significant backlash which must be compensated in software. Can this be done with a mesa card plus linux cnc?

>not having bubble insulated wires in your machine

>>1811210
lol how does that even happen? wire heating up?

also if anyone is interested, apparently these machines have a way oil trough that the excess way oil runs down into and out a tube to catch it

unless it's clogged up like it was and then it ends up on the enclosure and floor

>>1811245
file name should read "way oil trough"

>>1811245
Those were wires going to the servos. 2 pairs totally fused together, lucky the copper didnt touch. Im guessing the servos got overloaded or contiguous heavy operation. The machine was retrofitted once, maybe they replaced wires with lower ratings.

>>1811254
thick wire is expensive I guess

best way to clean this pitting and make it stop, like a anti corossion coating ?

>>1811124
i run a few mesa cards, yeah that can be done, im not an expert like on of the forum guys but but i think i got it down pretty good.
id get one of the ethernet cards/servo breakouts like the 7i92 with 7i77 card or 7i93 with 7i33. setup your computer with it all before doing the change over and read the manual, and then actually read the manual, for both linuxcnc and mesa card. every time i struggle with it, its because i didnt read the manual properly . the few times it was a bug (i was using new hardware) i emailed the mesa guy and he sent me a patch, and then linuxcnc got patched.
once you get the hand of it its not to bad at all. if you arent gonna fuck around with it, download the linuxcnc 2.7 iso for debian stretch and install that one

http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=341
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_86&product_id=74

http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=302
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_87&product_id=120
7i92 is popular so it probably has more documentation

>>1810778
This sounds horrifying

If i have say a cube and i want to a hole into a waste plate as a work holding solution for this cube, and the cube is say 100mm x 100mm, should the workholding hole be also 100mm x 100mm or for example 100.1mm x 100.1mm?

Because if i make it exactly the same size i don't think it will fit

>>1811407
Thanks for the inspiration.

What are the up/down sides of getting the PCI version and not the ethernet?
Although the ease of just plugging a network wire in the mill sounds great, im not so sure about how reliable and fast it is. But i guess it wouldnt be a thing if it werent usable.

I was thinking of getting a 7I77-5I25 plug and go kit:
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=214
Which is a servo card you mentioned plus a PCI card.

I still dont know what is the difference between Anything I/O boards, ill keep looking at them until i understand it. The breakout boards are easy to understand.

>>1810792
so i ran some test cuts (oak and mahogony) and it turns out hardwood ain't shit for the cnc, i assumed i will have to run 0.2mm DOC like i do on aluminium, but the machine ripped through it no problem even at 2mm DOC 800mm/s, even the black mahogony which is hard and heavy like metal
this is great news for making shit out of hardwood

>>1811895
you still have it leaving the circles on the top?

>>1811902
it only a roughing cut, no smoothing with ball end mill was done yet

>>1811902

>>1811905
You gonna do a 2D contour around the outside with tabs set so you can break it out?

>>1811907
No, i will have to leave a full edge around the middle and then cut it out with my oscillation saw, tabs aren't enough because when i machine the bottom side the whole thing is hanging in the air and is only supported on the sides, so tabs would snap off, i could put something under it to support it maybe but cutting the edge with the multitool is so easy that i will probably do it that way

>>1811889
heres what PCW has to say (the guy at mesa)
"PCI/PCIE
+
Faster access 8 KHz or greater servo thread rates on right host
-
Need PC with correct slot type
Hard to get cables out of PC case
Signals share PC ground

Ethernet
+
Electrical isolation from PC/Host
Long distances from PC possible
No slot requirement, works with Mini-PCs and All-In-One flat panels
-
Slower access (1 KHz on most hardware, 4 KHz max on selected hosts)
Needs Preempt-RT kernel (Debians Stretch test ISO image makes this easier)

Note that if you are running a step/dir system or velocity mode analog servo, 1 KHz is usually fine
so the slightly slower Ethernet access is not a real issue."

so pci is slightly faster and "easier" software side ie not needing the rt-preempt kernel, but that point is made moot by downloading the newest linux prebuilt image i mentioned which i will link to at the end
Ethernet cards can use longer cables so probably less susceptible to noise than the pci cable
i dont know enough about your setup(servos/machine) or competency with computers but imho the pros outweigh the cons for ethernet boards
on further inspection, this one might be the best/easiest for you
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=344
its an ethernet card with servo daughter card combined, so you have less configuration setup to deal with (which can feel impossible at times with bit files and hal and shit but its never as hard as it feels when you read the manuals properly)
the option you selected is fine, i just personally dont dickaround with the pci cards because of my personal requirements and the flexibility i want

>>1802780
What type of steel are you running?

I've finally bought a longer dial indicator, I really like using these more than a DRO for this axis. I'll 3d print a little holder so I don't need to put it in this weird spot.

>>1811947
4140

>>1811889
>>1811935
cont
>I still dont know what is the difference between Anything I/O boards,
to be honest , theres isnt much difference between the main ones, theres like 3 pages of boards but once you filter out the 3Xxx/4xxx series and the legacy products ,they are all really the same, aside from 2 things
-interface (pci/ethernet/SPI/epp)
-daughter card connections (50pin, db25 pin style, seriel,spi)
they all use the same spartan6 fpga(for the most part) and all run hostmot2,
i think the biggest difference will be if you use the 7i97 you wont have to do a flash a bitfile if you use the pinout provided , with the pci card you will have to run it through pnfcconf/mesaflash and do the whole setup (which again, can feel daunting but its once you read and figure it out, its no big deal, theres a lot of support for the 5i25 and pnfccomp makes it a lot easier) so each will be "easier" in their own way but i also dont know whats your plans are in regards to what other i/o you are looking to use as well.
me personally im using a 7i92 (ethernet) and one of the spi boards 7c81. it comes with waves of success and frustration but imo its worth it in the end for the customization that comes with linuxcnc, but no one is going to do it all for you so you will have to read and understand. i am bu no means a computer hacker but i read the shit outta the docs and most of the time, it was an error on my part, and the few times it wasnt it was because the 7c81 card i have was still too new . the guys on the forum are very helpful as long as you read the instructions because no one will do it all for you.

http://linuxcnc.org/downloads/
download the debian stretch iso (check if you have a 32bit or 64bit) burn the iso to a usb stick (i use win32diskimager but idk if thats a thing anymore) this will install all the things you need (realtime kernel linuxcnc) and you run linuxcnc from usb to play with before you install it

>>1811964
>>1811935
Thank you for the detailed answer.
I think ill go with the ethernet option you linked. Now comes the wait...
No point dicking around with 2 boards when one does the same job. Isolation is good, but im more worried about frying the controller board and not the PC. I can get a new pc any time. Speed is not important, im not using my machine in production.

>>1812043
when you are setting up and you have any questions or need help ask away or search the linuxcnc forums through google, for a straight forward setup, most things will be in the docs, they go into detail and it can seem overwhelming but its all pretty straight forward if you follow the guides step by step and read throughly. with the iso it will be pretty easy, so it will be mostly setting up your hal file and ini which you can make easier with stepconf and pnfccomp but it all pays off in the end, and watch out for g64

NEW
>>1812267
>>1812267