/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>1714578
probably because it doesn't require much physical strength

>>1714578
Where are you?
Around here we always get women in the welding classes because they want to learn for purposes of art, sculpture, jewelry (precision TIG)

>>1714578
Better fine motor control, Better welds.

>>1714591
Metro area in the midwest

>>1714588
Depends on the kind of welding, anon.

>>1714578
because other than plumbing its one of the only trades where you only need like grade 10 math

>>1714578
they saw the movie Castaway and they want to be that welder lady that has a shop on a farm in the middle of nowhere so they can pretend they had a husband that abandoned them so they have an victim complex excuse to turn into butch lesbian bull dykes

>>1714578
I travel for work and do industrial, nuclear, aerospace, etc and I've literally never once seen a woman welder
Seen women pipefitters though, and heard about a woman tig welder once

it doesnt take long to learn and pays well

just like beauty school and some levels of nursing, truck driving

weve known for a long time that male welders are low, the same would be the case for women

>>1714648
My buddy's wife worked at a fab shop that did prototyping for one of the big 3, was there for 4 years. She did tig and mig mostly. Only job I've never seen a woman do is hot taps.

>>1714596
>Better fine motor control
when will this meme end

>>1714802
Never because its objective fact. Its ok to point out the differences in men and women when its not deemed "malicious".

>>1714795
I had an old union hand tell me one time "you'll never see a woman welder. If you do, however, she'll be a tig welder and she'll be better than you."

>>1714578
I took a welding class 5-6 years ago at a local college.
Im a class of about 30, there were 5 or so women and they werent big butchy brutes or anything. Just kind of young country gals.

So no it wasnt half of the class or anything, but I didnt expect to see any women at all.

>>1714578
It’s what I call the Jeep Wrangler effect. Women want to be seen as being ‘just like the boys’ so they choose something they deem ‘manly’ so they can say ‘look what I can do, teehee’. It’s just like all the numales growing beards and getting tattoos and stuff.

>>1714830
Is this why you wear a dress on the weekends? The Pontiac Sunfire effect?

>>1714830
>jeep wrangler effect
spot on description anon.

>>1714830
Lots of projection there.
This shitty attitude is literally proving liberal talking points.

>>1714808
That's fair

I've known several women in engineering programs who took up welding, they also typically seemed to be the more artistically inclined type.

Just another way to make.

>>1714802
we literally had seamstresses assemble the rope memory units for the Apollo 11 mission.

>>1714882
>literally proving liberal talking points.
Who cares?

They like the camp life

>>1714882
t. seething tattoofag

>>1714806
so the first few studies i've found point to
"Results of this study indicate that there was no statistically significant difference in gender in either gross abilities or fine motor abilities," http://mds.marshall.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1786&context=etd

But i guess if we compare 3-4 year old welders:
"In the present study, younger girls (3–4 years old) outperformed boys in TTS, MD, and BAL, but no differences in AC were observed. In older children (5–6 years old), there were no differences in TTS, MD, and BAL, but 6-year old boys outperformed girls in AC."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5407840/

>>1714830
God I hate this so much. Next thing you know the boys are trying to bring their “just one of the guys” girlfriend on hunting trips and they fucking ruin everything.

>>1715067
people ruin everything.
the only tolerable situations anymore is being alone with my special anime waifu

>>1714578
doesn't require cognitive ability

Be the girl in "Flash Dance"!

>>1715148
*Flashdance

>>1714578
>The welding program right down the hall is full to the brim with women
They're pushed into it. Women are always herded into the next hot thing by people that think they're disadvantaged. They're all probably educated in .net and javascript too. The difficulty comes when they need to do what they were trained to do, and it turns out both of these are tough, shitty jobs that require a ton of time invested, and not the instant-upper-middle-class existence that they were sold.

>>1715161
I’ve noticed there are no women drain cleaners or garbage collectors. This oppressive glass ceiling of patriarchy must be smashed, and women must finally be allowed to jet out grease from drains and load hot steaming garbage onto trucks.

>>1715021
>even his cup is flexing on you.

>>1714904
Because they did similar shit like that for a living.

>>1714830
Doesn't work, the worlds best chefs are men.

>>1714625
>>1714830
>>1715161
It's one of these or a combination depending on the woman. There were a half dozen that went through the machining program while I was there and not a single one was worth the steel their parts were made of. I heard similar things from the welders about the women in their classes too. A lot of the men that went through were retarded as fuck as well though.
Some things I saw:
>endmills in drill chucks and they would argue when told not to do that
>HSS endmills run so hard on a /bridgeport/ they had a foot high pile of purple chips and the endmill looked like an experiment on temper coloring
>manual lathe fed so fast by hand they damn near threaded the part with a normal cutting tool
>edgefinder somehow shoved right through a 1/4" plate of 6061 with the tip still intact yet friction welded to the shank
>an "experienced gunsmith" running stainless steel at so high an SFM without coolant you could smell it burning across the shop and his chips were fucking black
>stealing other students parts, belt sanding the fuck out of the faces to "disguise" them and then trying to turn them in

>>1715394
Relevant

>>1714578
Sounds like you just need to fucking take a welding class and ask them.

>>1714578
Male welders are sexy, women are looking for one to marry him. Every single woman is after welders. Welding for life.

>>1714578
someone rolled out the red carpet for them.
when i was in trade school they were trying some all woman classes to encourage woman to go into trades and not have them feel intimidated by men (because thats the real world). it was such a disaster they cancelled the entire program. i heard there were fights in mid class on more than one occasion and the marks were hideously poor when compared to the normal class

>>1714578
Makes a shit ton of money without needing to rack your brain as you would in STEM, while also not being as severely congested as it either. One of my friends welds for half a year and sits a round on six figures in his bank as he smokes weed and wastes money on $3000 laptops he buys every year and some kind of smart technology stock

>>1715444
In my local, less than 3 or 4 women have finished the apprenticeship program and became journey"person" electricians. Yet still they push the whole "wymyn can sparky too!" narrative. Which doesn't really pan out when it comes time for them to help pull 750s but whatever.

>>1714578
There is a pretty good history of women welders. For all you know their grandma was a welder in dubya dubya 2

>>1715457
I know a black woman in her 50s who's been a Inside Wireman since she was eighteen. Kinda lazy, but not the laziest boomer I've met so far, and she doesn't get lost when people start discussing real shit.

Watching her climb a fourteen footer to straddle a heating pipe in order to install EMT gave me a giggle.

>>1715457
>pull 750s
what is that

probably a government thing. I took cnc at my local college (mohawk) 10 years ago and recently went to do my tool and die apprenticeship, and it was no longer offered at the 5min from my house college. so i had to drive 2 hours to the next school. half way through my apprenticeship, im at work and this class from mohawk(college 5 min from my house) is doing a tour. the class was "womens tool and die" i have to drive 2 hours and pay $70 in road tolls and parking....

>>1715539
750k cmi -
feeder copper cable

>>1714830
>>1714578
I know a chick who started welding class and dropped out before finishing

"OMG I'll be just like Rosie the Riveter!"

I wonder if they ever get tired of people telling them they didn’t know you could weld a sandwich.

>>1714646
Underrated post. Lol

>>1714830
>Jeep Wrangler effect
Please copy-write this now!

>>1714830
>Jeep Wrangler effect
I call it the Ford Mustang effect

>>1715589
Of course you can, just use a dissimilar metals rod

>>1714646
Damn anon. Who hurt u

>>1714669
>truck driving
>pays well
AHAHAHAHAHA!

>>1714877
Fucking hilarious.

>>1714830
>armchair sociologist
Or maybe they just happen to have a genuine interest in a particular field and see the opportunity to make a solid income.

>>1715803
everyone

Welding is more forgiving than machining.
Welding still takes skill so I'm not trying to say that it's inferior or something but if you make a mistake you can grind it off and do it again (unless you have got some special material).
Machining isn't as forgiving because if you mill a slot too big or face something down too much it goes into the scrap bin and your boss berates you

>>1715946
>and your boss berates you
its okay if the boss is a hot >>1715946
blonde aryan female wearing a 1943 German military uniform, tightly fitting
while she points her disciplinary riding crop at you

>>1714588
I dont know what welding hes talking about, unless it's tig, there is nothing light about plate and structural steel. Even with a crane, those chains are heavy to manipulate aswell.

>>1715804
It pays well if you're flexible. Like every trade.

>>1714578
>work at a technical school
>every year 3 or 4 girls in intake
>paid to be there on bursary to get women into stem
>bored as fuck completely uninterested in the field
>either drop out or graduate then do something different
Well what can you do huh.

>>1716169
> girls in welding program
they're just trolling for Chads

>>1715946
Yeah man, you have a twelve hour field weld for a primary coolant system that needs to be up and running in six hours for safety related fail safe NRC reg and fail your weld test, you can totally just cut it out and reweld and expect to still have a job ecks dee

>>1716224
Chads go to university, they don't go into trades

>>1714830
>Jeep Wrangler effect
I'm stealing that. Spot on

>>1715399
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saT1XPAI580

this made my day...

gib thicc welder gf

>>1716742
>thicc welder gf
Imagine the smell

>Chads go to university, they don't go into trades

>>1714588
>hauling steel parts most of the day
>doesn't require much physical strength
ok buddy

>>1716490
I went to both uni and trade school and this is just blatantly false.

>>1716746
>>1716751
Rich frat boy gym rats and football players dont go to trade schools with the lower fabrics of society.

>>1716757
>Rich frat boy gym rats and football players
You watch too many movies, venture outside the basement once in a while.

>>1716760
>You watch too many movies

You went to a shitty state college and think you understand what being upper class is.

>>1716761
whatever makes you feel better about your mindless memespouting

>>1716762
>blue collar cope

>Rich frat boy gym rats and football players dont go to trade schools with the lower fabrics of society.

>>1716761
Your highschool had football Chads and they weren't upper class ubermensch. They were just Chad's that went the gym played football. They might have got a scholarship and gone to college, but they still arent upper class, man.

>>1714578
memeing the trades is really taking off. A person could spend 80k getting a minor in
alcoholism or 2-4k learning how to become a welder and get on with their life.

>>1716761
imagine how upset this dude is going to be when blockchain and machine learning double-team his job prospects. You're spending 80k and half a decade to learn the basics of a trade that a machine can master in hours.

Entire industries will die soon. Who needs an entire team of architects when you a company could input their needs directly into a computer program and have a set of valid blueprints back within minutes? Who needs advertising agencies when web crawlers can come up with an entire marketing campaign for your product based off of whats trending online?

>>1714830
Agreed, most of them will drop out anyway.

>>1715444
>someone rolled out the red carpet
My work has preference. Top ten ladies will get jobs over guys ranked 40- 50 in skills/competency because "we need women". Shits me because my work is hard and they can't keep up.
t. Lineman in Flyover

>>1716823
>muh robots
Confirmed for not having spent a single second in a custom fab shop in his whole existence.

>>1716823
You don't know the first thing about electrical work (lineman or wireman), do you

>>1716965
He was actually saying trades are safer I think? He was attacking bea. Counters n shit.

Here's an antenna orders of magnitude better than anything a humanncouod design, bro. Robots arent just coming for assembly line jobs anymore.

>>1715394
>would argue when told not to do that
A major issue that women have is the whole "mainsplaining" thing. Men take suggestions from people that have been in their respective fields longer and become better at what they do. Women instantly think they're being talked down to. Just the fact that they had to invent a word for it speaks volumes.

I’ve worked in production my whole life, started as an operator, moved into a lead position, and am currently in maintenance. Along the way I’ve met a handful of women who were ex-production welders and a dozen more either going to school or planning to go to school to learn how to weld. At least where I work, women grossly outnumber men on the production lines and in the world of production, welding is one of the highest paying tasks you can perform.

The ones I’ve met gave it up because even though it payed really well (one gave up an almost $30/hr position to come work as an operator for ~$15/hr) they could tell it was taking its toll on their body.

>>1717143
Actually that one was always men

>>1714578
My school had a metal sculpture class in the welding shop. Might have been an art class

>>1716823
>>1716978
You really don't get anon's point; robots do not do custom jobs well, they start to have trouble when you start introducing more than a few variables, and they absolutely cannot handle environments that are not clean. I say this as someone who works with IT, and has experience with robots.

>>1716823
So in your future we'll have machines capable of doing work that takes architects and engineers within minutes, but these posthuman intelligences will nicely abstain from rendering the trades obsolete?

>>1717587
yes.

>>1717586 said it best. The first thing that is going to be automated will be the middle management and the upper echelons of a corporation. Most of the highest tiers of the corporation will evaporate.

If the bulk of your job involves sending/receiving communication and scheduling either yourself or others to tasks then it will not be around by 2020. Most office tier engineering will be gone as well. Architects will be replaced with "Create your own factory" apps that generate buildings based on your needs as a company. physicians can be replaced with complex AI.

Accountants, actuaries and advisors have all been glorified computers to begin with. now computers have finally caught up.

The next generations of these professions will be largely responsible for touching up a computers work and ensuring that there were no major fuckups along the way.
>>1716965
I am an electrician and I think you misread my point. A robot cannot fabricate outside of sterile factory settings. The only thing for us to really expect is better management, as our jobsite superintendents will actually be useful at getting us what we need, when we need it.

>>1717598
>A robot cannot fabricate outside of sterile factory settings
But we can use AI to fix that problem, clearly.

>>1717598
>>1717586

I do not understand how people maintain this massive blind spot.

There is NO REASON to assume trade jobs and similar will last much longer than the rest of them.

"...b-but muh variables..."

Yeah, and how do you solve for them? Applying previous experience and finding similarities between those situations and your current one. Does that not sound incredibly familiar? As in, the kind of thing computers are extremely fast at?

Note that I said "fast", not "good". The difference is critical in understanding why, once the jobs start to go, they'll all go fast. A computer can look through images, text, sound, or whatever data you please at speeds completely unfathomable to a human, and can find what it's looking for in seconds, where a human might take days. But a human mind can find what it's _not_ looking for, which is the nut that general-purpose AI research aims to crack.

That is to say, the crux of such an AI is getting it to learn things, on its own, that it was never designed to learn. It is not in the disconnect between the virtual and the real, which, to a computer (or, really, to a human) are distinct in only trivial ways. It is in the understanding an interpretations of the conditions it is given. A general-purpose intelligence capable of handling exceptions to expected conditions in ways more elegant and novel than "throw an error and wait for a human to fix it" must be able to do so for any arbitrary situation, because, by definition, such upsets are not initially accounted for and cannot be planned around beforehand.

If such an intelligence is built, that's it. Everyone, while not necessarily immediately obsolete, is worse at their job than this intelligence. Remember that you only have to teach this thing once, and it's not limited to one body. How could you ever possibly claim to be competitive with something that has thousands of years of experience? And that gets decades more every _day_?

>>1717615
Assuming we dont get smooshed by a fast take off ai,

Artisanal human made goods will be a luxury good simply because they are made by a human. Other humans will want your shit.

You already have all these humans around, they could do some useful work still.

>tfw your AI boss inspects your work and you are still doing it wrong several sigmas outside of what it knows you could do
"I'm not mad John, I'm just disappointed. You used to love working here. Step into my office, I'll put on my Watson hat."

Also database manipulation problems like disease diagnosis and accounting work, seem to be solvable without strong ai, if you believe IBMs press releases.

>>1717615 (cont'd)

To be clear, in a sense, I am agreeing. Trades and similar will likely be the last jobs lost, for the reasons of unpredictability stated.

However, I do not believe that it will be so much later as to be significant. The factors that enable humans to compete with automation _at all_ are the same ones that enable them to compete across the board, whether that be stocking shelves in a Wal-Mart or welding an underwater pipeline you can barely see. It's a difficult, multi-faceted problem, getting AI to cross that line. Once it's crossed, however, it's crossed all along its length. From a computer's perspective, there isn't that much difference within the entire scope of human labor.


Ignoring the most direct aspect of "the AI terk yer jerbs", and imagining that it didn't take YOURS...do you genuinely believe you're the best option out of the hundred people who lost their job for every one who didn't? And they're desperate. They'll work for peanuts. Boss definitely going to be mulling over how much he could be saving on wages, even if he likes the guys he's already got.

The best part? The same AI that put them all out of work is probably going to point him straight to the best one to replace you.

>>1717618
>Artisanal human made goods will be a luxury good simply because they are made by a human. >Other humans will want your shit.

Yeah, I'm sure they will. Too bad they can't afford it because they have no job and no money.

Bear in mind I'm only considering the feasibility of mass workforce replacement by an AI. The REALITY of the situation is that it's probably going to be a complete disaster. I can't even guess what will happen, because there has never been any precedent for the entirety of human labor being obsolete.

But, intuitively, I can't help but consider the situation at face value:

Human labor is now worthless.

In all likelyhood, traditional forms of currency along with it.

The robotic labor that replaced it is controlled by an immeasurably wealthy few.


There's only one way this could possibly turn out well for everyone involved, and, given humanity's record on similar situations, I'd bet the trillions of worthless dollars I had at that point on it NOT going that direction.

>>1717615
Theoretically we will see that, but that will require certain technologies to be in place that probably won't be replicated by machines anytime soon. The human body might be more frail than a machine and require sleep but it runs off of organic material. It would also require a tremendous amount of resources to automate the trades. lots of electricity and oil. It would probably never be as cost effective as paying someone to do the tasks required.

Trade qts love anal play for some reason

>>1715394
>>endmills in drill chucks and they would argue when told not to do that
Drill chucks are made to withstand vertical force, not the side load you have when milling. When you are doing vertical operations with an end mill, a chuck is fine, like for example when you're in a lathe trying to to make a square(ish) bottomed hole. You can get away with very small side loads (1/16 end mills at high RPM/low DOC) but I wouldn't do that if it's your own chuck and you value it's existence.

>>1714615
There you go.
>t. Metro area midwestern welder

unironically to steal male jobs, flood the workforce, and lower value
they may not even know what they're doing

>>1717598
My apologies, i did misinterpret your post.
>The only thing for us to really expect is better management, as our jobsite superintendents will actually be useful at getting us what we need, when we need it.
More time for the supers to stand around and make dick jokes, hell yea dude

>>1717628
>Trade qts love anal play for some reason
How do I get one? Do they also want to date/fuck a guy who works in the trades or do they want to "date up"?

>>1714578
I spent every other semester at community college getting a degree in NC programming and the welding class next to us always had at least a couple more women than ours. At most we'd get like one normal girl that'd drop after a couple months and maybe an elderly Iranian engineer's wife that cheated on her assignments, but 90% of the time the entire class plus the instructor looked like TCAP predators.

>>1714835
>>1714882
Looks like he struck a nerve.

>>1717615
>How could you ever possibly claim to be competitive with something that has thousands of years of experience? And that gets decades more every _day_?
I don't stop working when an angry ex-tradesman decides to start cutting down power lines.

>>1714578
Work in an aerospace machine shop guys out number girls 10/1 thibk theres 4 girls across all 3 shifts. 2 of them are old chicks who seem nice the other 2 couldn't tell the difference between a tir and run out callout on a print.

>>1717728
Not him, but chucking up end mills can result in a collet not wanting to hold it as well as it used to if you don't plan on trashing it. Also I'd be concerned with the slop of a drill press compared to a good mill maybe getting less mileage on the end mill. I guess I've seen people converting presses to mill out 80%ar lowers before though so I digress.

>>1714821
>>1714830
Onto

>>1716749
loaded by crane lol

>>1716490
The Chads that go to university are Omegas by the time they leave. Modern universities might as well be castration factories.

>>1715964
This guy gets it

>>1715444
>>1716842
>>1714578
These. The thing is, they sort of have to shill women in trades because if they wouldn't they would thus implicitly accept that there are innate differences between men and women and the whole flimsy house of cards which is their ideology falls apart. But, because nobody in politics really cares about trades, they can get away doing it half-assedly and of course ignore the really hard/dirty jobs

>>1716749
More like hauling your ass for 8th smoke break after 2h of "work"

let's play a game
I'm gonna post a crappy picture of one of my body parts and you have to guess which one is it

>>1719093
a thumb!

>>1719093
Too small, can't see.

>>1716761
>DUDE CLASS STRUGGLES LMAO
>DUDE YOU HAVE LESS JEWJEWBUCKS THAN ME LMAO

eat a bullet

>>1719489
If you think anyone you went to highschoolbwith is upper class, you're retarded.

Lawyers and doctors arent upper class, they're still working professionals. You just have no idea what real money is