/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>1594520

it might be by the time theyre done repairing it

>>1594524
all newer or restaurated colossal buildings in europe like e.g. the "Dom" in cologne are rellying on a metal construction to carry the roof. Notre Dame was never before damaged enough so it still had the wooden roof and look what happened. It would have been to expensive to upgrade it to metal over time, but Id bet my ass, that they will rebuild it using metal aswell.

>>1594520
Ok, but I don’t have 50 years to build my house of nice stone like that.

>>1594520
>Imagine this was built out of OSB like modern houses in America.

now imagine if the roof was made from reinforced concrete or even better, roman concrete without steel reinforcement

Still laughing in galvanized

>>1594520
I assume this guy is not the Croation tripfag, nor is he me, the guy that's posted (among others) this:
>>>1590686
That means there are at least three people dropping housepills on 4chan, probably more.

>>1594966
I'm not Croatian. I'm posting from Canada and I've seen the results of using inferior building methods after doing reno.

>>1594520
can you faggots just stick to one thread?

>>1594932
Here's an unreinforced concrete roof that has survived around two thousand years.

>>1595186
>roman concrete
>unreinforced

yeah okay

>>1595186
Horse hair my friend
The Romans used fiber reinforced concrete

>>1595186
>>1595219
>>1595304
>Horse hair

Pantheon has horse hairs as reinforcement?

Some structures did have animal hair as reinforcement. I don't believe the pantheon does. The French aquaducts do.

My understanding was that they used volcanic ash and lime mixed together with sea salt / concrete and it hardened over time into a water tight seal / didn't give way to integrity issues.

>>1595450
That is all correct. The ash reacts with the lime. It makes a very strong concrete

They also used hair and straw as reinforcement sometimes.

The pantheon is unique it the layering of aggregate. Its base is made of large rock Concrete this goes on for a bit, then a layer with smaller,then another smaller layer. All the way up to the top which is just lime ash and a little sand.

The funny thing is that the ash has such small particles it makes a denser sure concrete so the top of the dome is heavier per volume unit than the base. Which (while nobody knows for sure) is surely the opposite of the builders intention. However it still worked.

>>1595183
No, we evidently need four of the exact same goddamn thread on the front page at all times.
Fuck me I wish reddit wasn't so goddamn insufferable. I only still come here for three boards and they're all being taken over by even bigger morons than the ones that previously inhabited them.

>>1595183
Are we to /diy/ what discord tranny shills are to /r9k/?

>>1595468
But it's a dome so it just helps with the compressive stresses and such

>>1594520
the cost of building that cathedral in the context of medieval times is probably not even reasonably estimable. it was literally a pinnacle of achievement in terms of labor and resources. probably amongst the closest humankind has ever gotten to full ant hive-like dedication to a single project, except unlike ants it embodies everything specificilly human - history, mythology, faith, art, and culture.

building houses out of plywood and recycled plastic is practical. nothing about the great pyramids, the medieval cathedrals, the haggia sophia, etc is practical. you can't even compare these things.

>>1595700
>nothing about the great pyramids, the medieval cathedrals, the haggia sophia, etc is practical. you can't even compare these things.
They're practical in that if you want something really based to last thousands of years, you need to make it out of extremely durable shapes and materials.

>>1595702
well from that angle yes, but overall the projects aren't justifiable from any actual metric. a lot of ancient roman structures still exist because of exactly what you've said, but those aren't even remotely as significant of achievements as something like notre dame. i mean hundreds of thousands of painted pieces of glass held together by lead? at least hundreds if not thousands of sculptures that are so high and small to even be visible? and we couldn't even guess how many people died building the pyramids or the haggia sophia.

and you pretty much hit the nail on the head, modern construction is meant to last a generation and the only reason things are overly sturdy or over-engineered is purely for immediate safety concerns, not so much permanence. anyway i'm a little drunk and drifting off topic now

>>1595705
>and you pretty much hit the nail on the head, modern construction is meant to last a generation
Ye, I hate this shit so much. But I guess with technology as rapidly developing as it has been, maybe we don't want something built today to last a thousand years or more. Plus people today hate old stuff, so I doubt they would expect someone a thousand years hence to appreciate anything of theirs.

>>1595710
in some places people love old stuff, and in some places they hate it. i lived in Los Angeles for a couple years, and coming from New England I was thoroughly disgusted at how pointless and bland all the architecture was, and how little anyone cared about just leveling a 90yr old building to build a T-Mobile or a Carl's Jr. i would love to build myself a nice stone, wood, and iron/steel house (not just façade) but it would cost a fortune. more achievable with plastic 2x4 frames that will sag and start sweating out oil within about 40 years which will ruin your particle board but who cares, i'll be headed to a nursing home by then and dunkin' donuts really needs the space

>>1595700
Actually it was built during a huge labor surplus during the middle ages. The pre industrial society couldnt use all the extra people so the church build lots of these as make work projects.

>>1595736
https://youtu.be/zkGDp4oT2GU

>>1595710
>Plus people today hate old stuff
No, they just don't want to pay for it.

>>1595741
kinda the same thing m8. priorities.

>>1595700
>it was literally a pinnacle of achievement in terms of labor and resources
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKtVpvzUF1Y
Adjusted for inflation, the entire Apollo program cost about as much as two weeks of entitlement spending in the modern US. Do not forget that great things are well within the capabilities of modern civilization, and that we are not doing great things because certain people do not want us to.

>>1595610
>Are we to /diy/ what discord tranny shills are to /r9k/?

we are the good kind of trannies.

>>1595710
>But I guess with technology as rapidly developing as it has been

I dont see much technological progress in these days, its mostly about optimizing technology from the 90s and hyping it up.

>>1595700
>the cost of building that cathedral in the context of medieval times is probably not even reasonably estimable.

it was the space race of its time, but you can trickle down that expensive technology into smth more affordable to the average person

>>1595972
>I dont see much technological progress in these days, its mostly about optimizing technology from the 90s and hyping it up.

A 1 Tb SD card compared to the crap in the 90s is not hype, nor is almost any other thing related to digital electronics.

It's quite possible that we are at a plateau of sorts, and optimization is not a bad goal, especially if they find ways to use fewer scarce materials to make batteries and solar cells and magnets. We live in a wonderful time, technologically.

>>1595993
>A 1 Tb SD card compared to the crap in the 90s is not hype, nor is almost any other thing related to digital electronics.

but its basically a development or optimization of an already discovered technology, nothing revolutionary actually. Haent CPUs reached a plato already?

Reinforced concrete was a discovery, new forms of welding as well...we can optimize old build technologies with modern power tools and have basically little castles for cheap if we wanted to.

>>1594520
Stone pill? The roof was timber framed.

>>1595181
Yes we’ve all watched Holmes on homes...

>>1595999
>but its basically a development or optimization of an already discovered technology,
Do you mean how reinforced concrete was just concrete+steel? Sounds like the development of existing technologies to me. Hell, reinforced stone existed before reinforced concrete. It seems a pretty logical step. Even concrete itself wasn't a revolution. It was built on existing techniques to replicate stone, just like brick was. It's one major upgrade was the fact that you didn't need to fire it. Was it a huge step forward? Sure. Did it cause Vizzini to coin his famous quote? Not so much. It was just another step. The kind of thing that, when you look at it with hindsight, seems almost obvious.

>new forms of welding
Welding has existed for millennia. Making it easier or faster is not a 'revolution'. You don't seem to understand that everything we do, EVERYTHING, is built on the shoulders of those that came before. Having the ability to store the library of Congress in your pocket for a few hundred dollars is just as 'revolutionary' as not having to use a hammer and a forge to weld two pieces of steel together. Just because the 'magic' of that is lost on you but the 'magic' of TIG welding or whatever seems so radial doesn't mean they are both on about the same footing.

>>1595972
>I dont see much technological progress in these days
"These days" have by far the fastest technological change in human history. Information technology has chained a variety of fields of innovation to Moore's Law, so advances in biotechnology, materials science, data analysis, etc. are not just seeing faster gains, but exponentially faster gains. Nano-engineered surfaces are seeing use in things like fog-resistant lens coatings and clothing that dirt and liquids slide off of; polynitrogen shows promise for fantastically more powerful chemical explosives and rocket propellants; and micro-electronically structured metamaterials are rewriting the laws of optics, for example. Lithium batteries have become widely practical recently, enabling such things as high-power portable electronics, cordless power tools that exceed the power of corded, and freaking electric cars. Remote control and automated drone aircraft are having far-reaching implications that we're far from seeing the end of. And let's not forget the Internet, which has eaten printed media and social interaction, and is well on its way to eating TV and movies. You're posting on a board where a common topic is home 3D printing.

>>1595972
>its mostly about optimizing technology from the 90s and hyping it up.
I guess? F16s are just optimized technology from the early 1900's but that doesn't mean there was no progress involved in its creation.

>>1596233
>Do you mean how reinforced concrete was just concrete+steel?
Also this isn't actually a new idea, they used to use straw.

>>1595771
exactly, it's all about will and coordination and dedication. not that it can't be done, just that it isn't done.

>>1595972
>it was the space race of its time, but you can trickle down that expensive technology into smth more affordable to the average person
true

>>1595999
>Haent CPUs reached a plato already?
They are but shadows dancing on a wall.

Silicon, more specifically silicon with copper interconnects at roughly room temperature, is reaching a plateau. There are other more exotic technologies that need more time and money to develop.

>>1596233
>Hell, reinforced stone existed before reinforced concrete. It seems a pretty logical step. Even concrete itself wasn't a revolution.

true, but I would still call RC and invention due to scale of usage, the same way I would call cast iron of industrial revolution an invention that revolutionalized society despite the fact that casting also isnt nothing new.

>Did it cause Vizzini to coin his famous quote?

not familiar with it.

>>1596244
>"These days" have by far the fastest technological change in human history.

I see why you say that, but I expected more, according to SF novels of the 90s we should be living on Mars, nothing of that scale happened and compared to the inventiveness of the 90s, I see why they were expecting such development.

>>1596250
>F16s are just optimized technology from the early 1900's

very different engine, not just optimization.

>>1596380
I dunno man, I grew up in the 90's. I remember using rotary dial phones, the living room TV was a big 32" console CRT, we had a computer running dos with a 1k baud modem, my dad carried a beeper and would have to find a land-line to go call the beeper service whenever it went off to see who called and what message they left, credit cards were still being used with carbon-imprint paper and not swiped in a card reader at many stores... Thinking back to my early childhood it all seems so bizarre compared to now.

>>1596390
>the living room TV was a big 32" console CRT
Ah yes, when people still watched tv.. I remember those days fondly

>>1596397
Yep, I also had a 19" CRT TV with a built in VHS player in my bedroom. Can't believe I used to play split screen Goldeneye with my friends on that thing.