/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>1590686
And Americans are brainwashed into spending 20 or 30 years paying down mortgages on these things.

>>1590686
cope harder, europoor

>>1590686
McMansion styling aside what's going on with the foundation? It looks like they put down something concrete (shale?) like and slapped prefab panels directly onto it? Then they pour a concrete floor into the joist spaces covering a non-treated wood bottom plate?

The fuck?

>>1590715
Don't worry about silly things like foundations, just listen to that jamming beat!

I don't understand why steel framing is so rarely used for American homes.
It would make them much stronger and safer, and the seismic argument used against masonry doesn't apply to it.

>>1590723
>seismic argument used against masonry doesn't apply to it.
but corrossion does

and cutting and securing these things is way more difficult than wood.

Framers are quick when they rip boards and nail away, like real quick.

Europe is a muslim country.

>>1590688
its the land, not the houses. When you see homes destroyed by fire/nat disas. you will often see really big homes rebuilt when the insurance check comes in, because once you own the land and have the permits the actual material and building is cheap.

To jump on to this thread what material choices would you make for multigenrational home in 2019?

>good location not near a major body of water or in a high earthquake, tornado, typhoon, hurricane area.
>pest and fire resistant wood.
>????
>other

What else /diy/?

>>1590741
reinforced concrete

>>1590723
the tornado argument makes them more friendly to replace

>>1590741
Well maintained Japanese robots that are programmed to build in traditional Japanese manner.

You again, brazil brick peddler?

>>1590686
>termites
Imagine believing that we as a society lack the knowledge, technology and will to assess land for an insect threat and neutralize it all in less than 72 hours.
Fucking plebs, you're lucky we even give you running water.

>>1590726
>but corrossion does
THEY'RE GALVANIZED
THEY DON'T RUST, YOU CAN LEAVE THEM OUT IN THE OPEN FOR DECADES AND THEY'LL LOOK LIKE NEW

>>1590831
Until something makes a tiny scratch, then it is hidden rust galore

>>1590839
>tiny scratch
Try scratched all to hell in the transportation process from the manufacturer to distributor to warehouse to retailer to jobsite

>>1590723
condensation derpderp

>>1590727
fifty six percent

>>1590846
>Try scratched all to hell in the transportation process from the manufacturer to distributor to warehouse to retailer to jobsite
Only if it's dragged through the desert or through a beach

>>1590874
Europe is a muslim country.

>>1590880
>Europe is a country.
Here's your (You)

>>1590726
>corrosion
>pretending anti-rust treatments don't exist
>>1590863
>condensation
>what is proper wall ventilation?

>>1590686
>The comments on this video are brutal

deserved.

>>1590686
Are you ever going to tire of posting this shit?

>>1590686
ive been to europe, i have seen the crumbling brick row housing messes you all call home. no thanks i will keep my stick built home.

>>1590877
You cant walk 10 feet without scratching that shit mate.

>>1590839
Not to mention each cut they make and each bolt hole they drill, and all the bolts scraping around as you clamp them together. Rust-proofing a steel house would be way more of a pain than insect-proofing a timber one; the treatment soaks right into the wood. Imagine going to each joint and covering it with some tar or lead-based paint or whatever.

>>1590741
>anything but fucking drywall
>extra thick fibreglass insulation
>advanced thermal management system connected to refrigerator, AC/heat pumps, hot water, stove, etc.
>solar roofing
>sensors everywhere to monitor the construction as it ages
>probably aluminium frame, because it would be in a dry place.

>>1590723

>I don't understand why steel framing is so rarely used for American homes.

Because sheetmetal workers are all nuts and welders are aggressive and militant about being paid promptly. Metal is also heavier to transport then wood, and rusts if not quickly tarped. And the whole thing has to be grounded, too.

>>1590741

Most people would build a concrete bunker surrounded by a 12' reinforced concrete wall. However, most people don't have that type of money which is when they have to make compromises. Enter wood and lawncare (used to reduce fire hazards).

>>1590839
>>1590846
You all realise that surface-rust is fine, right? As long as it's not flaking, it's a protective coating: that's literally why we use Red Oxide paint on ferrous metal.

>>1591282
Iron rust flakes, period. You won't see structural steel from stainless steel, so once the cover is compromised it will corrode, flake and continue to rust under the covering.

>>1591293
Who said anything about stainless? Or even galvanised, come to that. The entire world uses mild-steel in construction in some capacity.

>>1591282
>>1591306
>>1591293
>>1590741
why cant amerifats simply into reinforced concrete ? you put rebar, you cover it with concrete. there.

>>1591578
>why cant amerifats simply into reinforced concrete
Built in obsolescence, if these houses are built to last they'll sell fewer over the decades. Follow the money, always follow the money and you'll get your answers.

>>1591282
That's true for some metal like Aluminium (white oxidation), brass (dull brass color oxidation) and copper (green blueish oxidation) but absolutely not for iron. The rust (iron oxidation) is destructive and, as stated by >>1591293

>>1591306
Stainless is way too expensive, and galvanised just have a thin coat of zinc on the surface. if you scratch it, it rust. Worst, it can rust bellow the zinc coating by propagation and you will never see it until it's too late.
And pouring concrete, even if wildly used method, don't stops corrosion, it only slows it down (look at 50 years old armoured balcony, you can see rust stain most of the time).

>>1590686
http://mcmansionhell.com/
Highly recommend this site.

>>1591578
Because it's not pre-stressed since that's expensive and usually has to be made off-site and transported in big solid segments, so it has to be pretty weak in tension. Not to mention earthquakes and such. Personally I'd never go near the stuff, reinforced or not.

>>1591628
Depends on the alloy, some alloys do form a semi-protective oxide layer. But I wouldn't bet that of the standard construction steel, and that protective coating won't be red oxide, it will be something closer to blue-black millscale. Iron oxide doesn't form a protective layer in most cases because the crystals of oxide aren't close enough in size to the metal that they replace, meaning they're either larger and push each other away from the surface, or are smaller and let air in between them. That said, some aluminium corrosion can be destructive, and possibly copper too, if the environment is corrosive enough. I certainly wouldn't want uncoated structural aluminium near the ocean, anodised or not. I've seen what my dishwasher can do to a good knife handle's rivets.

>>1590831
>>1590935
Why is no one adressing the other aspect he said alongside the rust reason

>and cutting and securing these things is way more difficult than wood.

>Framers are quick when they rip boards and nail away, like real quick.

Lot of people here don't know how galvanization protects steel. Yes, if you scratch it, it may slowly rust on the surface of the scratch. But the rust is still going to be inhibited just by being in contact with the zinc (or whatever it is being galvanized with, though zinc is most common). It doesn't even have to be a coating. You could literally just hang blocks of zinc connected by a conductive cable to the steel and it would work (IIRC, this is commonly done on docks). Basically, when two metals of dissimilar reactivity are in contact, the more reactive one will tend to be corroded first. This effect is more pronounced the bigger difference in reactivity there is. This effect can be useful in the case of galvanizing shit to protect it, or very harmful, like when you stick copper wires to aluminum ones and they slowly corrode the aluminum until the resistance in the wire rises enough to start fires. Or that time the US Navy's new boat had to be redone because the aluminum hull was dissolving away due to improper contact between steel and aluminum (and before anyone says anything, yes, Al will seem like it is more corrosion resistance, but it is actually much more reactive. It is just that it's oxide layer is impermeable unlike steel or iron's, and protects from further corrosion. It also looks pretty shiny, at least at first).

>>1591774
That only works when both sides are connected to the same body of water. Underwater that's fine, but not for drops of water on a roof and definitely not condensation inside a frame.

It amazes me how every bit of what matters in this house is done in the cheapest and laziest ways possible while the surface is prettied up to look affluent. From the weak foundation to the shingles.

>>1591648

Companies like panasonic send precut metal frames that are assembled at site. Its faster and the material is basically for ever( galvanized).

Its just overall a better way of doing things but what it boils down to is that it costs more than having drunken mexicans nail together plywood on frame. This is because in usa the industry making steel frames is really non existant.

In japan even wooden frames are precut and everything is like setting together lego blocks.

Can someone point out what exactly was wrong in the video? or is it just yuropoors complaining?

the house was sheathed and sealed correctly, they even did the window and roof flashing right and tucked it under the tyvek. that's the most important thing.

I would like liked to see more of the foundation, but they got 2/3 things right at least. with a good foundation, proper sheathing and a good moisture barrier, the house will last plenty long.

>>1591963

Its really poorly insulated for one. Like wtf how much energy are you willing to use for heating.

>be me
>leave house
>drive around anywhere within a 20 mile radios
>hundreds, if not thousands of homes dating back 170+ years
here is the good part
>framed with wood
good thing reality isn't decided what people that don't even own a house on /diy/ have to say

>>1590686
Looks like a nice house

>>1591971

LMAO yeah no it doesn't are you fucking kidding me.

>>1591968
when in the video do they show the insulation? watched it twice and I don't see the install.

Usually insulation is done from the inside, and without evidence I can't tell either way. most of the shots are exterior until the inside is fully finished.

>>1591975

You see from the construction that its not 25cm of insulation atleast. That is like the industry standard here.

>>1591972
What is wrong with it? you couldn't afford a nice house like that, that's probably why you are absolutely seething

>>1591981
>being this delusional
keke

>>1591981

Its build from really bad materials that will not last over a longer time and it even looks tacky.

Its not insulated correctly and the foundation is flimsy.

It doesn't even have a metal roof. WTF are you kidding me with this stuff now.

>>1591984
Let's see the shit box you live in. You are probably a renter!

>>1591979
>25cm of insulation atleast. That is like the industry standard here.

ok, now I know you're full of BS because 25 cm is a foot. I've never seen anyone that uses 12x studs for a foot of insulation. in this video they use 6x which is very standard.

>>1591989
>ok, now I know you're full of BS because 25 cm is a foot
Roof insulation

>>1591989

What an outer wall here is stipulated by law to be atleast 20cm insulated. Usually better houses use modern 25cm.

Roof is 30cm and upwards insulated.

>>1590686
If wood's so bad, then is the world's largest wooden building being built in Vienna?

>>1591998
ok, so where the fuck do you live then? canada?

>>1591991
and can you get your story straight here? roof? walls? how about talk in normal terms like R factor.

>>1591998

Its a really strict system with damp proofing and the works because the aim is that all new housing should meet the standard of being passive houses in terms of energy.

Every house is law required to have a ventilation that takes a minimum of over 80% energy back before any exhaust. That is achieved with modern rotating heat exchange units on the hvac often now compined with water which is driven to heat the floor of the house.

Next level shit but its a reality since the laws are this way here.

>>1592007
>and can you get your story straight here?
>He thinks only one person is allowed to answer his raging shitposts
whew lad

>>1592007
r factors here:

roof 0,13 floor 0,10 walls 0,15

>>1592007

Live in Norway. forgot that.

>>1592012

A wall usually is like in the pic. 20cm plus 5cm separate.

>>1591230
How ever am I going to ground a solid steel stricture? It's not like I can ground it like I would a regular house...

>>1591306
There is no such thing like stainless steel. Apart from this, nobody would use stainless steel in construction regarding the exploding costs

>>1591635
>Because it's not pre-stressed since that's expensive and usually has to be made off-site and transported in big solid segments, so it has to be pretty weak in tension. Not to mention earthquakes and such. Personally I'd never go near the stuff, reinforced or not.

I see you have high standards for house durability since non prestressed RC isnt good enough, what country are you from?

>>1590741
>multigenrational home in 2019?
America has those?
I thought 0bwama put Agenda-21 in high-gear & any neighborhood now subject to going Section8 instant-ghetto basically overnight.

So why build anything nice(recoup the investment over the same sq/footage shitbox down the street? don't think so) when you may have to sell & flee for safer pastures in x-number of years, or move for a job next recession.

>>1590723
imagine living in a faraday cage

>>1592768
imagine thinking a steel-frame house is a faraday cage

>>1592784
imagine thinking that there is such a thing as a net zero anything.

>>1592677
Those are just personal preferences, I'm from New Zealand and I don't think we have particularly rigorous standards here. But we do have a fair few earthquakes, hence why I wouldn't rely on the stability of the soil to lay a concrete pad, reinforced or not.

>>1590723
>Solid metal construction
>wooden chimney

No wonder everyone's houses in America burn down or are destroyed by tornadoes.

>>1593205

Exactly. In the last 8 years year mine burned twice and was leveled by a tornado once.

So what is this Meme about wood framing being bad?
I lived in 2 dairy homes that were built over 120 years ago. They were 100% fine when we moved out. Those homes were demolished for some stupid mega housing track in 2012 and the crews had a hell of a time getting them broken down.
the bathrooms had some retarded reinforcement for the solid marble walls.
housing developers realized later on the ground was super unstable due to YEARS of dairy farming and couldn't build anything on the land.

>>1591628
>absolutely not for iron

We're not talking about iron, though. We're talking about steel. Surface rust on steel is fine. That's literally what red-oxide (think about the name) paint is: a protective coat of iron-oxide that prevents oxygen penetrating any further into the steel.

>>1593322
>implying the oxide in the pain is what keeps the oxygen off the metal
They use iron oxide in the paint because it's a cheap pigment, the enamel or whatever cures or dries in the paint is what protects the metal. Iron oxide simply does not form protective oxide layers because of the geometry of the compound. But it definitely takes longer for rust to penetrate a nice steel than it does for raw iron.

Why the hell americans don't use bricks, concrete or stone to do their walls?
Hell, even fucking earthbag shacks are more resistant than timber framing. An american house would not stand still in a mild chilean earthquake.
>t. shitskin texan

>>1593357

this has to near the top of the list of "most boring memes ever".

>>1593365
>reddit spacing
You have to go back.

>>1592022
You can also use blown-in cellulose if you have a high-pressure pump system to avoid in-wall sag. It's popular in Germany and I have seen a few houses like this in Quebec as well. If you have 2 separete distant 2x6 vertical framing you can avoid thermal bridging entirelly.

>>1593320
>So what is this Meme about wood framing being bad?
Modern wood framing is bad, not wood framing done properly in the past. Learn to fucking context.

>>1593377

Found another one right at the top of the list

>>1593690
Speaking of it. Wood is wood and will always burn.

>>1590723
>I don't understand why steel framing is so rarely used for American homes.
because you are suppose to support it from red iron. this is just retarded

Why not do both?

>>1593780

>>1593783

>>1593784

>>1593780
This isn’t much different than waddle and daub. Good material, would wife.

>>1593780
>burns down in a fire and falls on your skull in an earthquake
brilliant

>>1593851
Well, I know for a fact at least 40% of house fires are caused by stupidity so as long as you aren't an idiot the chance is pretty remote.

>>1593205
do these at least have pads developed? i dont see one

>>1593690
>Sips*
>They don't build them like they used to

>>1593871
Sure, and I'd be perfectly happy owning a timber frame house because of it. Provided I don't live in a fire-prone area.

>>1590723
Metal framed shop/house combos are the new norm where I live in rural Texas. They are ugly from the outside but more affordable to build.

>>1593871
>60% is pretty remote
u wot m8?

>>1594182
I'm guessing he means most of the other 60% is caused by things outside of your control, like spreading bushfires. Though I'll admit including bushfires would skew the average a lot. Either way it says nothing about the absolute chance that your house burns down for any reason, which is probably a more useful statistic in this case.

>>1594309
From what I've seen on /diy/ the other 59% if that is electrical fires and the other 1% might be wildfires if you live somewhere liable to catch fire.

>>1594309

>>1595247
Well if you're building a new home you don't have to worry much about electrical fires either, because your wiring will be up to code. I imagine it's mostly older homes that fall to that.

>>1590686
OSHA at 4:44?

>>1591969
Thing people don't realise is that anywhere you go houses are built by what's readily available. Europe uses stone because there ain't no fucking trees.

>>1596535
>Europe uses stone because there ain't no fucking trees
Pretty fucking big generalisation there, bill.

>>1596663

find a picture of a tree in europe and post it. I'll wait and laugh.

imagine paying over half a million dollars for some pre-fab cardboard and drywall, with some external "bricks"

glad i never fell for this trick

>>1596665
Not him, but

>>1598188
Siberia is well known for its thick verdant forests.

>>1592421
Stick three rods into earth vertically, triangle formation a meter apart

>>1590686
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMk6Pyc_C2M

>>1593351
You realize that Anon painted his car titanium white, so now if he gets in a wreck anything up to tractor trailer size will just bounce right off of him...

>>1590741
I know brick or stone is expensive but it lasts a lot longer.

>2009
>parents move into virgin planned community
>average american homes
>around half-a-mil
>cut parents grass because they're older
>lazy neighbors
>they ask me to cut their grass for extra cash
>sure
>all exposed poured concrete have hairline cracks
>concrete sidewalks are shit
>showing aggregate at 10 yrs

I literally watched mexicans build this community. they called in electricians and plumbers but everything that could was done by mexicans

>>1593697

That ancient oak doesn't actually burn like that.

The fire was started by a muslim.

>3 minutes into a fire and they already said it was an accident

>>1599504
Sounds like the fault of the wh*te people who paid for the project

>>1590686
One of the highest standards of living in the world and Americans will still defend living in glorified sheds.

>>1601080
well no shit it's the builders fault retard

>>1598213
Siberia is very much Asia, duder.

yeah basically builders are jews like everyone else. just squeezing that shit down to the cent. this development is a lot of feds and they aren't the smartest people in some ways.

>>1590686
>progressive rock track
that's not prog

>>1590686
>American homes are garbage
He screams from his 500 square foot stone hovel

>>1598213
>his house isn’t clad in Siberian larch

>>1602398
Wood’s a fine building material, Americans just can’t use it well