/diy/ - Do It Yourself

Commercial installation.

>>1582907
Left is most likely electrical conduit... i.e. those pipes are not running data cables

>>1582914
We use cable trays for both data and power with appropriate spacing between them.

>>1582907

thats some pro tier pipe bending there.

>>1582918
Offsets and back-to-back 90s? You can do it too if you just learn and remember your offset multipliers

>>1582907

emt conduit protects cable
cable trays make adding or removing cable easy

the two are used for entirely different applications

we do use cable trays. I don't prefer them though

>>1582990
>protects cable
lel from what exactly?
what protection do you need conduit for specifically that a cable tray won't do?
maybe hazardous environment occasionally.
different applications you mean you bury conduit in a wall or void so you can pull in without access.
cable doesn't normally need protection especially if its visible.

>>1582996
>lel from what exactly?
From retards

>>1582907
7/10

its like you almost know enough to be dangerous.

Cabofil for food processing sites. American here. My foreman know Jack shit about cable management however

>>1582907
>leaving your wires exposed rather than having them run through protective steel conduits
It's like you're proud of substandard work.

>>1582907
>Why don't Americans use cable trays?
We do. But only when the facility is setup to accommodate them.

New construction where the cables aren't at risk of damage from various sources include space for them. Or the trays are partially or fully enclosed in situations where required.

>>1583124
NEAT AND WORKMANLIKE. Article 110.12... Its literally one of the first things in the fucking NEC, why people don't care to take pride in their work I don't know.

>>1583124
>Exposed

They are secured to a bridged with cable ties and are over a ceiling.

They wont get damaged and if so they are easily accessible for maintenance.

Cable trays are commonly used in telecom, but not for power.

When you pull a power cable in a cable tray, unless they are perfectly fabricated, its super easy to knick the insulation on any hots. Which shorts the wire.

this isnt difficult, eurofag.

>>1583162
We use cable trays for power in Europe.

Yankie sparkies, farken useless can't even handle 240v. That's why they don't use trays, too many retard sandwiches for lunch. Like to make work harder for no reason.

>>1583261
>can't even handle 240v
You're an idiot. We have plenty of things that require 240v circuits.

>>1583261
I work with 277 on a daily basis. You're obsessed and seething.

>>1583299
>>1583307
Silly yanks can't even handle 480v

>>1583311
Seetheobsess more. You don't know what high voltage terminations are, child.

>>1583311
480V seems to be an UK thing. Here it is either 230V IT supply or 400V TN supply.

IT
230V phase to phase
140V phase to ground
No neutral here

TN
400V phase to phase
230V phase to neutral
230V phase to ground

>>1583312
A three phase entry panel really isn't "high voltage."
I have worked 16kV stuff, but it's not much different to work hot. Now when you go up to 500kV things get interesting.

>>1583209
Yep. Different power and delivery standards.
In the U.S. EMT or MC cables have to be used in hospitals and businesses. Standard Romex (NMC) is for houses.

>>1583318
Anything above 120 is high voltage considering you can get killed by 277

>>1582996
Factories use solvents. VOCs in the air will wreak cables

>>1582996
Mice.

>>1582996
Protects against people who don't know what they're doing fucking with things.

>>1583344
If Europe had as many blacks as the USA they'd know the value of conduit

>>1583348
They have much worse, but they prefer no retard protection, to keep population from growing

>>1583320
>be me
>mechanic(catch all term for general maintenance and installation including electrical here)
>inna slaughterhouse
>doing some busywork shit, greasing bearings, checking gearbox oil.
>KA-BANG
>did that come from the panel room?
>lights go out
>head towards panel room, air is smokey.
>supervisor is on the floor.
>make sure there's no actual fire.
>help him up.
>he takes off his smouldering arc flash hood.
>he's missing an ear.
>"whew anon, that was a close call."
>mfw he can't feel that his ear is missing because of the burns and I don't want to be the one to tell him so I hand him off to the nurses.

>>1583364
480V motor bucket btw, only like, 20A, not a lot for a bucket. We killed the hogs with 480V electrocution, and we have to drop the amperage to 1A otherwise they would convulse so hard bones would break and they wouldn't hang from the shackles right. 1A. When is the last time you were in a 480 panel with less than 1A?

>>1583320
Anything over 50v ac Can kill you
Sub 1kv is low voltage

The question is why do Americans think pulling conduits for everything is necessary.
In Europe we don't use conduits literally for anything and no we don't have statistically more fires or mishandling of wires or whatever.
I know in US and Canada it is required by code to install conduits. I have a hunch that the companies that make these conduits have lobbied the conduits to be mandatory. It's like this with a lot of industries in the US.

>>1583453
You can answer pretty much an why question, especially about America with money, revenge or because we think it's cool (though we think revenge is about the coolest thing ever so it's really just 2 things)

>>1582996
>yuropoor education
>>1582990
best answer

I am an apprentice, so I don't know everything.

I'm currently at a slaughterhouse and we're using wire mesh cable trays. They installed conveyor belt systems, so there's a motor for each belt system. There's also a control/switch which goes along. I'd wager there's roughly 40-50 motors to hook up per room. Each motor gets a power and a control. It's a lot of cable. We used cable tray under the conveyor belts, and as a home run from the cabinet/ panel to the production room.

Lighting, Receptacles, pretty much everything else is run with conduit. Prior, it was all conduit, but because of the humidity and wet environment, pretty much most of the piping rusted real bad.

AFAIK, conduit is still going to be used when buried under concrete.

Cable trays are annoying AF when people don't consider the guy trying to get to the AHU on a lift..

>>1582907
You can fish a wire through conduit

>>1583453
you don't HAVE to have conduits for everything.. you can use MC, romex (residential only.. its glorified extension cord though). Many times EMT is speced on a job.

Then you need to look into the layout of the building 4-5 rooms is only like 10 circuits on average so 20 wires and a ground.. well with derating we bump all the wire to #10's and it fits nicely in an 1 1/4" pipe... so only running to that area once and then pull the wire in and branch out... less labor than taking a cable tray and then running 10 cables to that area to feed everything.

We do have some lobbying for bullshit, like arc fault breakers and newer gizmos but they have to prove some safety behind the reasoning to become a new code.

>>1583383
Not really, in the US it differentiates between current carrying conductors that wiremen work with vs guys who do data VDV/networking installation. Those guys can't really hurt themselves with a fucking CAT5 cable but a hot wire in a 277V panel can ruin your day

>>1583506
>AFAIK, conduit is still going to be used when buried under concrete.

It would be stupid not to, sometimes in residential areas they use direct burial cables for the main service.. sometimes this stuff gets cut just a little bit and will over the next few years melt itself completely out... it turns into a ball of aluminum ash and its a pain in the ass to get the utility company out, disconnect, locator, dig up, fix it, turn back on, test, then re bury.. might take all day depending on how bad it is... wire in conduits usually work forever once they are in, meggered and turned on.

>>1583453
You can run Romex for residential anywhere but Chicago. I still think conduits are better though. Flooded basement? Pull new wires through conduit. Old wires? Pull new wires through conduit. Two prong outlets? Just make sure the box is grounded and use a pigtail for the new three prong outlet.

We use them in the shelters at cell towers

>>1582907
We do, was on a job at a Ford plant in Kentucky running anaconda cable, all cable tray

>>1583531
I was curious one day so I looked at the NEC board members and code writers. Mostly representatives from all the big companies; Eaton, Square D, Siemens, T&B, GE, Dupont, LeGrand... The list goes on. Not even surprised.

>>1583830
my point is that the requirements really arent so bad, besides added cost just gets marked up and then passed down to the end consumer so I get to profit off that too. Most of those companies actually try to innovate products/provide seminars that help reduce labor costs in the long run. I really do think that those on the board have safety in mind more than creating new ways to profit, electrical is pretty much a necessity at this point.

i live in america and i install trays all the time on ships!

>>1582996
>lel from what exactly?

if one cable catches on fire, then they all do, and the whole factory comes to a halt.

>>1582996
my homeboy drove a forklift with the mast extended into a conduit carrying 1,200 amp lines going to an indoor transformer powering a ton of bitcoin miners. The pipe bent but luckily that's what service looks are for. Idk what kinda mess woulda been made if he ran into a flimsy tray like op posted

>>1583453
Lol you have exposed big conduits plan

>>1582907
>Why don't Americans use cable trays?
dunno, why are you so gay?

>>1582996
I work in a machine shop and everything on the floor is going to get a nasty, sticky coat of evaporated coolant on it if it sits out uncovered.

>>1582907
canada here
cable trays are for low voltage, conduit is for high voltage.

>>1584404
I think that high voltage cables should have no insulation, while signal low voltage should have decent insulation, since niggers can steal them, while stealing live wire is difficult.

>>1583453
conduit is never necessary. it's just usually cheaper. current carrying capacity for any given cable is based on its tendency to burn the fucking building down. sleeving cable in conduit can let you use the same cheap cable but use a 16A breaker instead of a 10A. fire break penetrations like through platform levels or firewalls are easier with conduit. warehouse buildings of the steel frame/tin skin variety dont really have cavities to put cables so im not sure where you want cables to hung from in such a situation.

>>1583531
>arc fault breakers
this. what the fuck are these even for? oh shit i have a broken cable that's flailing around sparking. I should rely on my arc fault device instead of unplugging this shitty appliance.

>>1584485
>sleeving cable in conduit can let you use the same cheap cable but use a 16A breaker instead of a 10A.

Ok, I'm going to have to call bullshit on this one. Show me the NEC code that says the current rating of a conductor is different if it is in a conduit.

Because it's safer. Having power lines completely encased in a grounded metal tube greatly reduces the risk of some external element, like a rat, from chewing through the cable and starting a fire.

For context, remember that many homes in America are still ungrounded knob-and-tube. As in, it's just copper hot/return wires soaked in tar going room to room in paralell, offset from boards by ceramic insulators (often broken bits of plates, which was allowed at the time). It was only fully phased out by the mid 1960s, and it was phased out by insurance companies and state inspection boards requiring homes to put all wiring into enclosed pipes.

>>1584506

One such example. My house is like this, although my grandfather was smart and grounded all the metal outlet boxes. Many older homes do not have that and electricians won't touch this (even just to replace an outlet) unless they're allowed to rip it all out or install a new, enclosed line.

>>1584508

Conduit exists to prevent this.

>>1584509

This is also why UL generally says to use wirenuts instead of soldering, because the old method of soldering had finished wire covered in cloth drenched in tar, which rats and termites love to eat and will fry themselves as it's not grounded. Conduit prevents this.

>>1584511

also grounding shit on sewer drains is also not allowed anymore, conduit prevents electricians (or contractors, anyone installing it) from even considering it as an option because all conduit comes with a ground and the electrical box is grounded and must have a tie-in for grounds.

>>1582996

from rats

>>1584509
Get some k-ror

>>1584495
outdoor/exposed to sun/near the underside of hot roofs/in external walls. you can use 75PVC instead of fancy super expensive aluminium/steel sheathed cables or 95PVC cables. basically if you're in a hot environment or say an industrial environment where something like organic vapours of oil might get sprayed around ever that can dissolve PVC which isnt uncommon in even the most benign industrial environments because shit needs to be cleaned and that often means MEK or something similarly strong to say, strip nitrile gaskets off an engine head.

I have no idea about shitty american NEC rules. I'm not in north america.

>>1583026
w t hell i can put likes? lul

>>1584508
he wasnt being smart. it became a legal requirement. it's why you find weird ground runs all over the place. some new appliances wont run if the ground is faulty or not connected. ground wires arnt necessary unless you have a GFCI, something that only became a thing in the late 70s when integrated circuits dropped below $1000/piece. a lot of power companies made them mandatory which meant they would shut off your power if you didnt install one. you have no excuse to not replace that wiring how stupid can you be? that knob and tube wiring has got to be 100 years old by now. a 100m reel of 2.5mm twin&earth cable is <60USD each.

>>1584526
>ground wires arnt necessary unless you have a GFCI,

ah yes, the /diy/ electrician who is full of shit. GFCI does not need or use ground in any way, in spite of the name. Google to educate yourself if you actually want to know how wrong you are.

>>1584528
>ground fault circuit interrupters don't interact with ground

why do you think its called a ground fault? they're not connected to a ground wire directly, yes. but you still need a grounding rod and ground wires or it wont protect you very well.

>>1584528
What? It does need ground. It measures how much current does not return to Neutral.

Yeah, the ground connection could be your body standing on your floor but I rather have my GFCI trigger when a metal enclosure becomes live before I touch it.

>>1584531
>but you still need a grounding rod and ground wires or it wont protect you very well.

Like I said, you can read up on what it actually does, or remain ignorant.

>>1584533
>It does need ground. It measures how much current does not return to Neutral.

lol. another /diy/ tier electrician. GFCI DOES NOT NEED OR USE GROUND IN ANY WAY.

there are some testers that need a ground to work, but the gfci device does everything it does without interacting with the ground wire at all. YOUR FUCKING BODY IS THE GROUND FAULT, NOT THE GROUND WIRE.

>>1584534
yes I install them. ground is bonded neutral at the panel, upstream of any circuit protected by a GFCI. installation varies by your distribution system tho. how do you think they work? im genuinely curious. inb4:
>DUHH READ A BOOK FAGGOT

>>1584535
That only works if your body is GROUNDed you stupid fucking idiot.

>>1584535
try removing this screw anon. since you dont need those silly ground wires that are part of the big industry conspiracy to make you pay for 1/3rd of the copper you dont need.

>>1584538
sad part is that he probably is an electrician. having seen the kind of work electricians do and their level of knowledge regarding electricity im not even surprised. my dad hired an electrician to install a light fitting and he spliced in a junction box by just twisting the wires together and putting black electrical tape over each joint. glad i found all those hack jobs when i rewired his house and used wirenuts etc.

>>1584526

>you have no excuse to not replace that wiring how stupid can you be? that knob and tube wiring has got to be 100 years old by now. a 100m reel of 2.5mm twin&earth cable is <60USD each.

Because getting up into the attic, the walls, and everything to completely redo the wiring is a nonstarter and would be a huge project. My house is old enough where in addition to cripple studs I got diagonal studs, which the wire is fed through. Reaming it out for proper conduit would be a huge chore and take at least 50 hours to do. I installed G/AFCIs in the power box and all the outlets though, so I'm pretty safe. And again every box is grounded, so the chance of a major fire is low.

>>1584495
>What is pipe fill and derating
>>1584485
Arc fault breakers are law in Canada because of heaters and electric blankets.
>>1584404
Says the commercial guy. Sometimes conduit is impossiburr... You only get 3 90s.

>>1584539
nigga why did you cover your terminals in syrup?

>>1583336
But Americans run wires inside walls without any protection.

>>1584650
Because it's more likely for a europoor to have mice issues in the walls. And if an amerifat had one oh well its a stick shit house.

>>1582907
>Why don't Americans use cable trays?

but americans do use cable trays

>>1584495
I think he is wording it wrong or because he is a euro (the whole 16a and 10a crap) its the whole not speaking a second language well thing... and as such he doesnt really know what the NEC is because they have their own rule which apparently they dont care if their wire burns up.

I can show you that 310.15(b)(3)(a).. in 2014 book.. will give you an adjustment factor for multiple current carrying conductors.... however unlike the euro guy our wires never go up in rating, only down. so take 6-9- #12awg CCC's @ 20amps means you are allowed to take 70% of the #12's insulation rating (THHN in this case rated at 90C) based on 310.15B16 which gives use an ampacity of 30. So 30 x 70%= 21amps, the #12 wire is still ok. Now we jump up to 10-20 CCC's and we are only allowed 50% of the rating.... cant use a #12 anymore because its rating dropped to 15amps and will melt. We can bump to a #10 which in the 90C column is rated at 40amps..X 50%= 20amps, wire will hold the current without melting in this case.

TL:DR
too many wires = heat
Heat= bad
upsize wire to reduce resistance
less resistance= less heat
less heat= less chance of fire

>>1584778
Why would an EU care if the conductor lit up? They embed all of em in stone. Wood is considered luxury in that land.

>>1584790
idk, I dont actually care about the EU.. they seem to care so much about us that they feel the need to prove how much about us that they know all the time.

>>1584541
You get what you pay for. A bag of wirenuts is not expensive and any electrician worth his salt shouldn't think twice about buying them.

>>1584882
junction boxes come with a little baggy of wire nuts anyway in australia. that's what's so amazing. its like the wire nuts were right there and he chose not to use them.

American wiring is spooky<div class="like-perk-cnt"><img alt="" src="//s.4cdn.org/image/skeletons/7.gif"></div>

>>1584897
Not if you're remotely familiar with the electrical code

>>1583453
>In Europe we don't use conduits literally for anything and no we don't have statistically more fires or mishandling of wires or whatever.

Okay thanks I'll let literally every Dutch sparky know that they're doing it wrong because "Europe". Can you send me over some 2.5mm T&E, they don't seem to have it in stock anywhere here.

>>1582996
What an ignorant and shortsighted reply.

>>1584895
>NQ sparky here
Had to google "wire nuts" what the actual fuck? No J boxes do not come with little baggies of these, they come with BP connectors. Would bully anyone using these would not even use on DC.

>>1584897

only for homes built before 1965, see >>1584508

knob and tube legit sucks to deal with, I feel bad for anyone who has to suffer through it.

>>1585014
It's still better than dealing with 1950s-ish PVC wiring where they still hadn't figured out the right amount of non-volatile plasticizer, which would cause the insulation to flake off and ignite like a grain silo explosion does.

I work in a factory in the USA.
We use "cable trays" exclusively for bridging cables over walkways. My building has probably two miles of pipe conduit and maybe 200 feet of cable tray.

As a forklift driver I can attest to how easy it is to damage cables on accident, and how much protection a steel conduit adds. you can bump one of those suckers fucking really hard without breaking the cables inside. you'll break through the wall before you break through the pipe.

literally all these cable trays do is keep light wires overhead. it wouldn't even hold up 480v cabling, pretty much just data cables.

>>1585428
>literally all these cable trays do is keep light wires overhead. it wouldn't even hold up 480v cabling, pretty much just data cables.
Well 480v is probably carried by what, 3/0 wire?

>>1585430
Any 480 running through 3/0 is certainly a service supply line and would almost definitely be in a conduit.

If I wear nipple clamps on a chain will it prevent me from dying by drawing extra amps away from my heart?

>>1585428
>>1585435
In the refinery I work in Canada conduit is impossible. Everything is cable tray or in the mine field, it's hung off the ceiling. I'd like to see someone put airguard cable in a conduit lol. Our high current multi conductor runs are just as impossible to run conduit for, tray and cobra clamps are the only way. Some of the trays holds dozens of 4/0 and 350 mcm cables. Only time you see any conduit is offices.

>>1585436

only if it's grounded, I'll let you figure that part out.

>>1582996
>it's perfectly safe except for when it isn't

>>1584495
I think he has it backwards. I'm pretty sure there is a table in the NEC with what percentage of the maximum ampacity you're allowed to run through any particular conduit.

>>1582996
>lel from what exactly?
I just want to pile on and call you a retard for this comment.

>>1582907
>Why don't Americans use his thing they invented?
Why are you so obsessed?
The US uses a variety of methods for different circumstances and environments

>>1585451
pffft... everyone knows mining follows its own set of rules. Even standard laws of physics are governed by some committee somewhere deep in the northern territories.

>>1582996
>cable doesn't normally need protection especially if its visible
lol, look at the tard.

>>1583320
wrong, depends on what your regs class as high voltage. In the UK generally anything over 1000v is classed as HV, at least by general regs. Under 1000v is low voltage, obviously.

>>1586228
In much industrial stuff anything over 24V (sometimes 30V) is high voltage. 'High voltage' meaning it can travel through human flesh.

>>1585451
I'm guessing you don't use conduit because mining uses teck or ac90 for everything?

>>1586023
Only when you can justify it. When I do I'm a wizard.
>>1586553
Sometimes it's not armoured. Depends where it is. Lots of times they replace xformers and gear in a hurry so we need to make high current jumpers. Tray/strut/clamps are the only viable option. Of course this is often abused as we continuously add more cables to the trays sometimes...
Other times it's trailing cable, such as the application of overhead electric belt trippers on large storage barns. Cable carriers just explode with the ore or product as it accumulates between the hinges. Messenger is impractical too, it rots off, or worse, in some cases it would of looped on employees. We tried looking at slip rings but we have way too much instrumentation, and radio became impractical as well. In this case we designed a fiberglass "tray" for the umbilical cord, which stretched 250 feet across a 500+ foot barn. Worked awesome.
I see conduit and trough alot in surface mcc rooms between lineups, load centers etc, that were purchased as package deals, like e-houses. Takes way longer to build, so in an unscheduled outage we rebuild with tray and clamps to make shit work fast. Our production rate is around 350k/hr.

So yea conduit is nice but we don't sleeve unless we have to or it came as a package. It has its place in my world but that's generously around 5% of all conductor paths.

>>1585573
It's percentage is based on how many current carrying conductors

>>1583332
please stop
we don't have shithole company's that expose the workers to solvent fumes and vocs we have actual health and safety standards

I want to say fuck cable trays.

In the oil industry, they're always placed in exactly the right place to make moving around location as annoying as humanly possible.

>>1582996
>lel from what exactly?
>what protection do you need conduit for specifically that a cable tray won't do?
>maybe hazardous environment occasionally.
>different applications you mean you bury conduit in a wall or void so you can pull in without access.
>cable doesn't normally need protection especially if its visible.

code requires data cable to be sleeved if it's passing through any sort of concrete wall or flooding ya dumb spic

>>1583142
>why people don't care to take pride in their work I don't know.

because they're niggers anon, niggers

I always take the time to make my work neat and workmanlike, although pipe bending skills could be better but I do mostly residential now.

>>1583453
>The question is why do Americans think pulling conduits for everything is necessary.

Maybe in hospitals or on commercial jobs where there is no drop ceiling, otherwise we just run that shit. We probably don't use conduit as much as you allege.

>>1584508
>One such example. My house is like this, although my grandfather was smart and grounded all the metal outlet boxes. Many older homes do not have that and electricians won't touch this (even just to replace an outlet) unless they're allowed to rip it all out or install a new, enclosed line.

Is that wire wrapped in cheesecloth? Geez thats old af, i'd say it's about time to start ripping out that old stuff and replacing it with romex before your house burns to the ground lol.

>>1584539
>try removing this screw anon. since you dont need those silly ground wires that are part of the big industry conspiracy to make you pay for 1/3rd of the copper you dont need.

You only need that bonding screw if your neutral wires are being used as a groundinG conductor, mostly grandfathered in older homes, but for new construction you would remove the bonding screw because the neutral will be tied in at the first means of disconnect.

>>1587031
no shit, does ops pic look like the length of tray is encased in concrete?

>>1587032
>although pipe bending skills could be better but I do mostly residential now
Thats because you rarely have to bend pipe when you're doing residential shit

>>1587095
>Thats because you rarely have to bend pipe when you're doing residential shit

Well, yeah..

>>1587042
What the fuck are you talking about. The bonding scree is at the MGN main ground neutral interface for your service. This is almost certainly inside your main breaker panel. It needs to be in place.

The scree is there and removable incase you are using the box as a subpanel. Because y'know, you arent supposed to bond ground and neutral anywhere but at the MGN.

The original anon was right, you dont need a ground for a gfci to operate, and hes also right that you are the ground in the system when it trips.
But it should trip so fast it cant hurt you

>>1584508
cross bracing and diagonal sheeting...you dont see that kind of quality these days

Main thing to do with old knob and tube is to upgrade the fuse box to a 100 amp breaker box.

>>1587036
Not an electrician but I'm fairly certain that building code states that if you open a wall you must replace the tube and knob wiring before sealing it back up. That you can see the house is plaster and lathe should indicate that the house is made some time between 1900-1940s depending on region.

>>1583320
You can get killed by 12vdc. Its the amperage that kills you not the voltage

>>1587340
You need a high voltage (higher AC frequency also helps) to overcome the body's impedance so enough current can flow in the first place

>>1587146
Yes you do, it's just different materials require different amounts of bracing... It's not like codes were just invented.

>>1587181
>Not an electrician but I'm fairly certain that building code states that if you open a wall you must replace the tube and knob wiring before sealing it back up. That you can see the house is plaster and lathe should indicate that the house is made some time between 1900-1940s depending on region.

I'm talking about gutting the entire place and replacing all of the old wiring.

>>1582907
Because we spend all our money on a military so you foreigners don't have to.

>>1587379
12vdc kills with a cut little niglet.

>>1587181
My parents house was built in 1901
Had the knob and wire shit everywhere
Attic had asbestos insulation
Dad hired a Mexican guy, not a contractor just a guy who does stuff, had him blow in about 3 feet of cellulose insulation, covered up all the wiring
He changed all of the no ground plugs with regular looking modern plugs, even had a ground wire that he just stuffed behind the boxes
My dad and grandfather put in all the gas lines when dad was a kid, couldn't afford black pipe, so they used galvanized and painted it black
Helped my dad fill in a trench that was used to dispose of oil, solvents, batteries and other stuff from a family auto business
People that bought the place planted the area with a vegetable garden
They had a home inspection done, inspector spent the whole time looking at my dads rifle collection and drinking dads homebrew
Dad is dead and my mother is in a nursing home money got put in a trust for my kid
Never trust a fat home inspector

>>1582909
>customer asks for a CAT6 drop & access point in the center of the ceiling
yeah... no

>>1582907
that conduit bending is impressive

>>1588624
Never worked for a gas station or super market?

>>1587379
Depends on many things, if you are a big fat cunt stuffed into a crawl space full of insulation in summer heat, new to the job with office skin hands your body impedance will be betrayed by sweat and soft skin.

> amperage
Current.

>>1588640
Isn't it obvious he has never worked and is just another armchair tradesman

Cable tray all over the place in bulk material handling. Fucktons lighter and far more practical than a million miles of pipe. Wanna play with pipe? Be a plumber.

>>1583366
Does this kill them or just knock them out?

>>1588627
See
>>1582924

>>1584518
>k-ror
how do yo connect that shit to an electrical box?

>>1590600
Latches.

Late to the party but union electrician in the Midwest here. Fuck cable tray for smaller jobs. It's a complete waste of time on commercial jobs. It's a complete waste of time if you're feeding anything other than panels, switchgear or equipment that is unlikely to move. Pulling wire in and out of conduit is so much easier than pulling it over cable tray, getting it spaced out, then cable tying it every rung like an autist until it looks pretty. It's not cost effective on most jobs. It's a worse level of protection as well. There are only a few applications where it will make sense to have cable tray everywhere and that's usually large industrial facilities with big power demands. The reason for that is you can pile a fuck load of whatever size wire you need in the tray and feed various equipment. Pipe is not ideal many times in industrial settings as well. If the pipe is too small and the motor on the equipment is replaced with something much larger then all the conduit has to be replaced back to the panel.

Also to yuropoors thinking they can shit on electricians over here fuck off. Shit on carpenters installing osb if you must get your impotent rage against America out but electricians here know what they're doing and don't cut corners as a general rule.

>inb4 a yuropoors posts a pic of something a homeowner did in their basement
>implying that has anything to do with real electricians

Pic related is all rigid that some guys I know installed.

>>1591931

So dumb and useless just use a tray and its easy maintenance and faster to install.

>>1591933
It depends on the situation. Tray is definitely not a one size fits all application. For spread out areas with things being fed in all sorts of directions I would argue conduit is your best bet. Or for a place with low IQ mongoloids/blacks working in it then conduit is the choice

>>1583311
>americans can’t even handle 480v
480v is the most common 3phase power supply in my plant.
>t. Print mechanic anon

>>1591933
its like you didnt even read his post

>>1593433
Maybe they dont have to secure cables to their trays?

We dont always for our non-power wires. We have huge curling snakes of cable in our overhead trays. The power and old equipment is tied down nicely. The new stuff is tied vertically but once its overhead it's just tossed wherever.

>>1587742
>home inspector
these guys suck - fat or not

>had our house inspected before we bought it
>everything seemed great
hire electrician to do some stuff
>'you have knob & tube everywhere on the second floor. the inspector didn't mention this.?'
>shows me all this fucked up stuff
>mfw

>>1584958

Wire nuts aren't used in my country too, we do twist and tape up to 10mm total and connectors for more, i just don't get the hate tape gets, i have seen +50 yo tape conections in perfect shape

>>1582907
Is that really only 10 foot of pipe in those bends? I don’t see any couplings.

>>1586548
Under 24V it's "extra low voltage".
24V to 1000V is low voltage.
1000V and more is high voltage.
(Or 50V in some countries)
It may be different for DC though

>>1584509
WTF is this 3rd world shit???

>>1582907
They do. Hell, when I wired my new highschool building for a summer internship, that is exactly what we did.

>>1584508
You think that's bad should see my house, built in 47 and some of the old wires are still live. I'm out right now and can't take a picture but you'd all probably tell me to get an electrician immediately.

>>1583142
Oh youthought they accualy want to work. ? ...hahaha maybe in between porn and social media......these me_linials are socialists they want uncle same to take care of them while others do the work.....jeezzz.

>>1583156
We have a newbee at the hive......guess what matainance is a fucking bitch....like they wont have the place full of shit......dummass.

>>1596389

Alright bacon rider take it down a notch.

>>1583311

The average American is a pussy.

But their stars shine the brightest

https://youtu.be/6_NEAEGeFIw

>>1596389
You vicodin-addled boomers conveniently forget who was responsible for (failing to) raise "muh millennials" whenever you complain about that demographic. Dont pop too many pills before you drive down to the hall to pick up your gibs check.

>>1582907
Been to usa a couple times, don't know what you're on about. They use em everywhere same as us europeans

>>1584640
Makes it taste real good

>>1591931
>all that wall space being used by conduits

should've used a cable tray

>>1582907
I used J hooks to run the electric and air in my barn workshop.

>>1582907
oh and btw they use cable trays in applications that aren't industrial, like universities.

>>1600444
No.

>>1582907
It's probably code ... for a freedom loving country they sure do like their codes.

>>1582990

SWA cable protects the cable.

>>1591931

Have fun working on the conduits in the middle of that fuckery.

>>1600563
You usually dont need to do anything to the conduits once you put them up and strap them down/couple them together, virgin.

>>1583537
>direct burial cables for the main service
just say lateral service.

>>1600499

I run cable tray in industrial for large wire that isn't practical to run in conduit. We just pulled some 750kcmil into cable trays at a plant for a new switchgear we're doing and it all goes into cable trays.

>>1582907
The plant I work at is full of cable trays. Only thing tgat gets conduit or emt are the shops and fixed equipment outdoors, there's 100s of miles worth of cable trays here.

>>1592508
>be amerimutt
>get zapped by a printer

>>1602566
single phase is cheaper to run the wire, enables us to run electric to every backwoods cabin in creation, cheaply

3-phase costs extra to get to your location, for running heavy machinery. If your needs aren't gigantic you can just run a rotary phase converter to generate the 3rd leg of power for running 3-phase machinery.

>>1602567
>run a rotary phase converter
alright grandad

>>1602516
>750
>not practical to run in conduit
Choose one (1), sissy

>>1602516
You are like a little baby.

>>1602666
>going into a manhole
>going into a manhole in a city
lol enjoy your gaids needles.

>>1602685
Actually a good point. I have never seen one in the mud, but I will keep that in mind when pumping and mucking out in the future. Especially with our recent explosion in homeless

>>1602690
also pcb's, lead and asbestos are everywhere. you're gonna die son.

>>1602694
>pumping water out of hole
>test for lead, fluorides, acidity, oil


Theres never anything there. Its regularly filled with water and pumped out. It's just gross.

>>1583209
I think the look of concern on that man's face says plenty.

>>1591931
DAMNNNN, someone knows how to lay pipe.

>>1585573
2017 NEC table 310.15(B)(16) covers not more than three current carrying conductor (18awg through 2000kcmil size) in a raceway, cable, or direct burial.

>>1582907
I'm almost done with with my first year being a sparky, and I barely run conduit. Worked at the same site the whole time, and the nanotech tools get put in and then taken out all the time. Tools often share the same tray so wire is easier to pull out. According to my journeymen most other jobs in my local don't use cable tray as much. Also, the fuck is that flimsy shit you call cable tray? pic related

>>1584778
Still table 310.15(B)(3)(a) in 2017 book

Cuz us Americans love American steel. Was like that on the submarine and bases. Dudes had to have security clearance and be escorted all over and they work in pairs and bend some pipes unusually fast.