/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>1510928
>attack wood beam to the ground

*attach to the ground

>>1510928
>1. wood mounted IN the ground (with no additional material, just depth)
>2. wood mounted IN the ground with cement
>3. wood mounted IN the ground with gravel
>4. wood mounted ON the metal supporter

OK, so Im interested in method 3), most horrible is method 2) since it wont allow wood expanding with time and it will keep the wood wet and rotten.

Method 3) might be structurally inferior to 4) but its more simple. Gravel and wood still allows for water management without the negative properties of cement (or God forbid poly quick foam) and its cheaper than 4).

Question is when stabilising wood in the ground with gravel, how deep does the hole have to be? Do you mix gravel size (smaller rocks on bottom, bigger on top)? any exp?

>>1510935

Here in NC, I usually see them dig a hole about 2 feet deep and 2x2 feet square, then fill it with concrete, then the deck post rests on that with one of those metal spacers between the wood and the concrete. 3 and 4 are not as stable over time as a proper footing.

>>1510939
>then the deck post rests on that with one of those metal spacers between the wood and the concrete.

the metal spacer looks like this pic >>1510928
or this pic>>1510935 ?

I havent seen much of gravel and wood, method 3, but it can be a stable system, obviously, youll have to dig deeper, gravel will allow better water control than if its just drilled in the ground and in a way it might be faster than concrete since you dont have to mess so much with leveling the concrete footings.

another improvement of the method 4 would be using a big rock instead of cement to allow less friction for water to move instead of working its way into concrete with time.

The proper way to do it is 1 third of the post in the ground 2 thirds out for instance if you wanted 9 feet sticking up you would need 3 feet in the ground you would need a 12 foot post. You put 6 inches of gravel at the bottom of the hole and you concrete the rest. That's the only way to do it. Everything else is wrong.

>>1510951
>You put 6 inches of gravel at the bottom of the hole and you concrete the rest.

wood and concrete should NOT be mixed - you are destroying the wood longterm.
Your pint about 1:3 is wise doe.

You get a treated post rated for ground burial not ground contact. Oh and option 4 with the metal bracket is also fine.

>>1510956
The only problem I see with wood in contact with the ground or in cement is termites and rot. For a fence it's a no brainer, but for something like a deck where you would have to rip shit up to replace a post, I'd go with spacers 100% of the time. That or a metal post.

>>1510956
>treated post rated for ground burial not ground contact.

for method 2 attachment? How about gravel method?

>>1510960
>For a fence it's a no brainer

fences built by method 1 actually last longer than method 2. method 2 mught be stronger in the shortrun but longterm it destroys the wood

>>1510928
Mount about 2-3 feet deep with a bag of concrete. Any other idea doesnt work very well. Concrete will not keep the wood wet as some are saying and is a better, more stable option. Use ground contact rated lumber and it will last 20 years.

>>1510963
If you do this I'd suggest putting a few inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole for drainage.
And mound the concrete so water runs away from the pole.

>>1510963
>Concrete will not keep the wood wet as some are saying and is a better, more stable option.

I know this is industry MO, but that is simply not true - concrete isnt waterproof unlike gravel so it doesnt provide a drainage system for the wood below the ground.

Think about it, even concrete above the ground falls apart from water, what do you think happens with it below the ground and how does it affect the softer and more water sensible material like wood.

>>1510963
>is a better, more stable option.

this, as long as it extends well below the frost line. those guys saying fill a hole with gravel must live in florida, because a few seasons of freezing and thawing and that pile of gravel has shifted all over the place.

>>1510951
Except a 12' post buried 3' in the ground is 3/4 sticking out, not 2/3.

>>1510928
All wisdom expressed here is good, but you may also want to consult building codes. They may differ if you are building a floating deck, or an attached one, or another type of structure.
I also think frost heave has a bearing here, and you want a depth below the freezing level.

>>1510967
>because a few seasons of freezing and thawing and that pile of gravel has shifted all over the place.

OP here, that is a legit concern. But you can prevent it very much by "pressuring" it or whatever the english term is (hitting it for it to become more compact with that jumping machine). Romans prepared roads that way and they still stand, but there is a trick that you have to mix layers of smaller and bigger gravel to provide stability and optimal drainage.

Here is the trick romans used for stability - big rock on bottom small below surface, with wood beams in ground I think it should be layered in reverse for drainage?

>>1510968
1/3 of the material that is sticking out of the ground is much easier to figure than 1/4 of the total length.

Frost heave, oh yeah you need to worry about that too. Most definitely figure out the frost line and get deeper than that. You want Sono tubes so your concrete is perfectly round so the frost heaving ground has less to catch on.

>>1510928
You can set in polyurethane foam instead of cement. Drainage is probably still an issue, but I'd rather chip out foam when I need to replace it than jackhammer concrete

If your worried about concrete absorbing water and fucking your wood up add some kryton (Google it) to your mix and be done. Best of both worlds and even though they won't have a price on there website it's cheap. Find an authorized dealer have have them shipped you a bag.

>>1510998
>If your worried about concrete absorbing water and fucking your wood up add some kryton (Google it) to your mix and be done.

You solve the problem of wet concrete (if the treatment lasts), but wood will still get wet from the part of wood that is sticking from the ground so you end up with the same problem.

The treatment last forever. It's not like a coating. It goes into the concrete and changes the structure of the free time left after hydration to make crystals that typically don't exist and the fill the gaps usually left thus making the concrete denser , typically 20 percent which also increases the strength by 20 percent. The extra dense concrete has no gaps smaller than a water molecule thus waterproof. But you are correct it won't stop the rain.

>>1511015
>It goes into the concrete and changes the structure of the free time left after hydration to make crystals that typically don't exist and the fill the gaps usually left thus making the concrete denser , typically 20 percent which also increases the strength by 20 percent.

Im not familiar with Kryton, but thanks for the tip.

Aside from drainage, problem with concrete and wood is that wood expands at faster rates with water than concrete so it crushes itself from within like its within the vice, I would like to try the gravel method (3) for that reason since it provides "flex" and drainage for expanding wood. I know that method 4 works great, but 3 is what I would like to experiment with.

Hey man it's your deck. Do what you want, lots of people have tried different things and they all ended at concrete for a reason. If you want experiment just be ready for failure, not saying it will but don't get mad if it does.

If you can't do concrete above the ground then bracket to wood then dig a hole, gravel in the bottom just a couple shovels to help drain, post in, concrete packed, shape to angle away from the post, gravel on top all around to catch water on the post itself.
Dig a hole a little deeper than post hole and leave overnight, if it doesn't rain but fills with water you are in the water table and fucked.

>>1511052
>gravel in the bottom just a couple shovels to help drain, post in, concrete packed,

Im liking this idea, but why not pack on the sides with small gravel and compress it? Im try to avoid packing wood beam with concrete due to mentioned issues of wood touching concrete.

Big gravel on top, small on the bottom or reversed? What is optimal for drainage and stability?

>>1511054
Big gravel for footing, small gravel to pack and drain.

>>1511071
>Big gravel for footing, small gravel to pack and drain.

Ok-big on bottom, small on top, sounds smart. I might consider puting some big on top after it all like a roman road to prevent shifting on the surface. Thanks!

>>1510928
Roots.

>>1510928
If you really want to put a post into the ground or directly in concrete you can also use tropical hardwood. We use this reddish hardwood they call Azobe here for fence posts here. It's very dense, sinks in water, and is almost impervious to rot.

>>1511133
>It's very dense, sinks in water, and is almost impervious to rot.
are we talking about wood or your mother?

>>1510928
Wood mounted on the metal supporter, everything else wood related is going to rot away

You fuck heads make wood sound like it's made of sugar. Just bury that fucking wood in some concrete. Like Every fucking fence/deck/polebarn/old railway bridge/gazebo/watch tower/dock/telephone pole/power pole/some street lights.

Is it possible to be a retard and use the wrong wood and have it rot? Fuck yes it is but it sounds like you know that so it shouldn't be an issue for you.

Also alot of buildings and roads in Rome are fucked up. Lots are good. So just make sure you use the right shit.

>>1510949
The metal spacer looks like this pic >>1510949
this pic >>1510935 has a similar metal mount at the bottom of the risers.

To do it properly you would mount the wood risers ON the metal supports ON concrete footings. Depth of concrete depends on your local building code. Could be anywhere from 12 inches deep to 48 inches.

>>1510949
adding to >>1511161
You only need to put packed gravel below the concrete footing if you're on some silt that doesn't drain. Any other dirt has enough natural drainage and does not need gravel.

>>1511150
>Just bury that fucking wood in some concrete. Like Every fucking fence/deck/polebarn/old railway bridge/gazebo/watch tower/dock/telephone pole/power pole/some street lights.

people like you is why tradies have a reputation of sketchy retards with tribal tatoos.

Using wood intelligently is a dark art, looks simple at first but details can make a building last 500 years or barely 50. Roman aqueducts and buildings still stand, you probably think they were made out of reinforced concrete? Old Tudor buildings made out of wooden beams still stand. American "wood houses" get expensive moisture problems after 10 years. You mongrel.

>>1511163
>You only need to put packed gravel below the concrete footing if you're on some silt that doesn't drain. Any other dirt has enough natural drainage and does not need gravel.

Good tip! But I cant remember a situation where putting gravel below caused more harm than good. It can help with ground movement also.
Over the years have you noticed some periodical change on metal mounts - did it affect the wood in a negative way regarding rot? Japs chisel the wood bottom and put it on a natural rock without any metal support and it works great but that is much work...and those jap houses are pretty light.

>>1511150
>Just bury that fucking wood in some concrete.

I so wish to bitchslap you for your own good. Buildings that still last more than 100 of years lasted because people put THOUGHT in what they were actually doing, instead of being a bunch of stupid mongs that just just pour concrete in spaces they like.

So the 100 year old house that I live in that us on wooden piers in concrete. We will ignore that then huh?

All those metal brackets you think are going to save you can rot the fuck away just like wood will.

Have you come up with a solution yet or are you still sucking dead Roman dick.

Look up some coast guard CFR piling standars. They have some pretty good info in there.

I dont know why I am still helping you, I guess just the fact that If you build some garbage ass piece of shit it makes the world a slightly shittier place.

but I am guessing that you have never heard of acetylated wood you can suck my dick later.

and I am well aware that roman aqueducts were not made out of reinforced concrete. At least in the modern sense it is actually quite funny you say that because all the aqueducts in France have actually got animal hair reinforcement, so not surprisingly you are not totally correct. But you didn't spend your entire life designing concrete structures did you. You havent seen them in person and done tests on them so you wouldn't know.

Didn't Romans invent an early form of concrete?

you could add pozzolans to your concrete to bring its density up enough to make it water proof. you could, extend your concrete out of the ground enough to negate the natural tendency to wick moisture up through it and only put the wood in far enough to where it does not come into contact with the moisture laden zone. there alot of shit you could do that are all industry standard. Things we do every day, things that work, things that are cheap and will last 1000 years,

But you go ahead and fucking dump different size gravel in the ground as capillary break, which 100% will stop the transmission of water to your post and keep it from rotting. It just wont hold the post solid.

they didn't invent a form of concrete, they invented modern cement and used it in a form of modern concrete. We rediscovered it some time later and slapped the name Portland in there

>>1511255
pardon?

>>1511167
Sure, I agree that gravel can be helpful. Generally gravel becomes less important (diminishing returns) as the depth increases making the footing longer.

I haven't seen a problem with metal mounts, as long as their footing is tall enough from the ground. Unless you live near salt water, they should last at least as long as the wood.

There are two types of metal mounts I have seen: bolt on and formed into the concrete. Bolt ons are easy enough to replace, Formed ones have to be cut off and replaced with a bolt on type. Again, I have only had to replace them because of salt water proximity or improperly poured footings.

>>1510966
thats a skyscraper and not even remotely comparable to a residential application.

also
>rebar
you wouldn't have that in a post pile

god damn you guys are both wrong as fuck in uniquely stupid ways. yes pilings have rebar cages installed before pouring.

>>1511322
not for a fucking deck. you can buy them shits precast at home depot and they don't have rebar in them.

well that's not a piling now is it you fucking idiot that is a pier.

let me know when you finish googling that shit so I can rub it in.

Hit it really hard with a shovel until it stops moving.

>>1511150
yup

as if wood outside isn't going to get wet when it rains or snows

>>1511367
>as if wood outside isn't going to get wet when it rains or snows

it will and it will DRY OUT if you allow it, just like clothes, wood is not rock or cement so dont treat it like that

>>1510978
no no no no no
This is the contractorfag from >>1510963 listen to >>1510967 about frost line. You are not building a road or putting down pavers. You will not be putting down a 3 inch layer of road rock, compacting it, laying down some crush and run, compacting it, putting down a layer of fine limerock, compacting it and then paving it. You are sticking a post in the ground. Also, every fucking scientist in this thread telling you about "Drainage" doesn't understand the concept of erosion and that after a year your entire gravel drainage system is going to be totally saturated with the dirt it is in unless you sheathe the whole fucking thing in a PVC tube which is stupid for this application. One dumbass almost figured it out when he said "concrete isn't waterproof" >>1510966 which means like all other fucking options your post will have the same water exposure as the soil around it. Then the dumbass posts a picture of rebar in concrete rusting and expanding and therefore causing the concrete to spall. Wood doesn't rust you dumbass, don't tell people how to do stuff if your IQ is room temperature.

So, in conclusion, you aren't building a road, you are sticking wood in the ground (use a level since nobody here seems to know what the fuck they are doing and or talking about), wood doesn't rust and won't cause spalling, and use ground contact rated pressure treated 4x4's and wait at least a month after installation before painting or staining because it takes pressure treated lumber that long to dry out and accept paint and stain.

>>1511182
t. I've never actually built anything but here is a picture of something with a rock foundation which was the old equivalent of a concrete footer.

>>1511167
>>1511182
Also, look at your own photos, the wood isn't touching the ground. That makes it last longer. Also, this is a deck, not a house. If budget isn't a concern you can make a concrete footer and do like the japs did and keep the wood off the ground. You will still have rot over time unless you finish the entire deck and use expensive hardwoods which have natural rot/insect resistance. If budget is not a concern, you can make a deck that will last longer than you and your kids. I thought OP wanted a deck like pic related in the OP, that he could build himself (this is DIY) that would be doable over the span of three days and would last at least 20 years. All the shit you are posting had teams of stonemasons and woodworkers to get the results you want, not so much DIY.

>>1511474
>Wood doesn't rust you dumbass
>wood doesn't rust and won't cause spalling

correct wood doesnt rust, it rots if it is constantly wet, so dont treat it like cement, if you install it in cement it wont rust, it will rot away so we are trying to find a solution to that problem. why do I need to repeat myself...

>which means like all other fucking options your post will have the same water exposure as the soil around it.

how is that so? concrete touches more surface of the wood than gravel and doesnt provide as good drainage due to its waterfilic surface unlike stone that is kind of waterofobic (stability problem aside).

>>1511478
>Also, look at your own photos, the wood isn't touching the ground.

that is method 4) which is obviously superior to any other method of attachment, but Im primarily interested in mounting wood IN the ground and what is the best method for that.

>>1511484
Then read the rest of the post where that the soil will fill the gaps in your "gravel drainage system" giving the same contact area as concrete. Also, stone is not hydrophobic, it is hydrophillic, look up silicates and hydrogen bonding, you really are clueless. You can also look up capillary action if you really want to see how wrong you are.

Hole, insert post, concrete, make sure level, done. I don't like option 4 because it doesn't provide the stability of option 2, it might last a little longer (if your metal doesn't rust) but it won't have the same solid feel that a concreted post does. Also, do you want to get the job done or do you want to sit around and romanticize old construction methods that required immense manpower because we have a few that are still standing, therefore all of them were superior. There are 200 year old barns in the central US that are still standing with oak beams in contact with the ground. It's has more to do with climate and soil stability as it does with construction methods.

>>1511495
>soil will fill the gaps in your "gravel drainage system"

it will, but soil isnt concrete so it wont crush the wood and it dries quicker than concrete.

>Also, stone is not hydrophobic, it is hydrophillic, look up silicates and hydrogen bonding, you really are clueless.

You might have got me on technicalities but surface of the stone does not get wet unlike concrete surfaces

>I don't like option 4 because it doesn't provide the stability of option 2

it might look like that at first, but concrete footings rigidity might be their biggest weakness, if ground moves, enitre footings will move, while gravel footings will absorve the movement better since footing is modal so some gravel can move without moving other (similar to drystone walls)

> Also, do you want to get the job done or do you want to sit around and romanticize old construction methods

I want to think things trough and a good job, not mess up smth that is just good enough, what is the problem with that? Also durability of old low and mid end building is miles ahead of currect dogshit builds.

>>1510953
the concrete does nothing to the wood except trap water in it, which then makes the wood swell and cracks the concrete and rots the wood. You alleviate this some by putting gravel at the bottom of the hole for drainage. Typically this is only done with fence posts and some decks which tend to rot out and need replacing every 15-20 years as is.

>>1511506
>the concrete does nothing to the wood except trap water in it, which then makes the wood swell and cracks the concrete and rots the wood.

you also need to notice that it doesnt allow the wood to swell when its wet (and its wet more often due to effect of concrete) so it creates cracks in wood which is the biggest problem. its a horrible combination - similar effect is with wood furniture that is connected by nails instead of joinery.

>>1511163
gravel below and concrete around makes it much easier to level the tops, throw in a few stones and tamp down with the post until its at the height you want it then pour concrete in. too high? little twisting action it will bed down into gravel to lower the height.
leaves the bottom open onto gravel lets water escape from post stops wicking from soil into post.

maybe its pointless but i'm in heavy clay and it holds water like a bathtub so thats what i do and its fine.

Op really is a huge faggot I just finished Driving 50 piles into the ground for a Petco slab last night. They are treated and not going to rot. I'm no engineer but somebody who is bet millions on this working, and they're right I do this 7 days a week.

>>1511553
>They are treated and not going to rot.

*they are treated and they will rot (slower).
You dont know shit my nigga.

>I'm no engineer but somebody who is bet millions on this working, and they're right I do this 7 days a week.

no worries m8, they work just enough for you not to get sued within 5 years as all McEngeneering methods. Get dat dank mcconstruction mahnee!

Would it help if I told you I have pulled out 75 year old piles last month and we reused all of them.

I hope you spend all your budget on special faggot materials and end up with a soup sandwich.

the rot in that picture is caused by improper flashing at the corner of the doors, you see how there is a 45 (roughly) degree stain, thats where the water got in. That poor installation of good materials. the materials can be cheap if they are installed correctly. So just make sure you install your post correctly in the ground and just use average material.

notice how the OSB kept dry is in fine shape. You can get treated and even marine grade ply if you think its going to get wet and it wont rot.

On a personnel note I made a shed out of marine grade ply 20 ish years ago never painted it sitting on the ground its just a pump house, its is still standing fine.

I agree with you that there is alot of poor construction methods going on in the world but that doesn't mean you cant do it well. It seems you have a plan and want to stick to it, today is Saturday its the weekend go ahead and a build a deck. lets see it come Monday. post pictures of your progress please, maybe we will all learn something

>>1511568
>special faggot materials

but concrete is a faggot material, that is why it is so commong in brutalist fag architecture. When men were men it was brick, stone on real wood, you are of faggot actually.

>>1511571
>That poor installation of good materials.

what good materials? plastic mixed with leftover wood all that shit wrapped in Tyvek crap like a shit chocolate. The airtight method of building is unhealthy for humans and a total meme generally, faggot building approach.
Traditionally, all walls were pourouss and allowed for self drying of the walls, this energy efficient crap wont allow for durable buildings.

>>1511574
>marine grade ply 20 ish years ago never painted

so you are learning something, wood SHOULD NOT get painted, unlike metal. If you paint wood, use wax, mineral oil or some organic coating, poly paints choke out the wood.

Dude the marine ply is soaked in chemicals, that's what makes it marine grade. Regular ply needs exterior grade paint if it's to be left exposed. Plastic lasts forever just go ask the ocean.

And when you say metal I assume you mean steel. Because plenty of metals require no paint.

>>1511609
>Plastic lasts forever just go ask the ocean.

Plastic is dogshit, put it in the sun and come back. Also, wtf is a marine grade ply? Have you ever seen a ship built out of ply or OSB? Its all crap materials for short use. Any skemerl who is building long term construction and trying to convince you its OK since its treated with McTreatment deserves to get shot.

>>1511611
>Because plenty of metals require no paint.

good to know.

The shack I made out of marine ply was left over from the dingy me and my son made. We put anti fouling paint in the bottom and exterior oil on the above water line parts. It still good 20 plus years.

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic about the metal paint thing or not but it's true. Things like brass lead copper aluminum they need no protection.

plastic can be made to handle the sun just fine. think about for instance your sunglasses. If you can avoid losing them or breaking them you can have a pair for a lifetime.

those 2 pictures above of wooden houses have a coating of a spar urethane on them. It is not a good product and is destroyed quickly by the sun and needs replacement every 5 years or so.

>>1511647
>I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic about the metal paint thing or not but it's true. Things like brass lead copper aluminum they need no protection.

no sarcasm, Ive never heard of metal not needing protection so I was surprised, aluminium does infact rust and brass also, although at different rates than metal, that is probably the reason you dont put protective paint on them, but overall you use them rarely in big projects due to subsuficient properties of those metals compared to steel.

>>1511655
>coating of a spar urethane on them

probably but think outside the box, that entire approach of airtight is total garbage and house doesnt have the ability to dry itself so you have huge moisture problems

the only material to rust is Iron and anything with iron in it including steel the proper term for rust Is Iron oxide. Brass and aluminum do both oxidize however they only oxidize a few thousandths of an inch before that oxide layer becomes imperviable and is in and of itself a protective layer which prevents future oxidation. In fact you can get aluminum which has been purposely oxidized to form this layer it is called anodized aluminum.

as far as the airtight deal goes I have a author that I studied with a doctorate in this subject his name is Jeseph Lstiburek and if you are interested he has written books all of which are very good.

>>1511665
>aluminium does infact rust

based on your spelling of aluminum I take it you're not american, but where you live doesn't rust mean iron oxide? here in america, aluminum forms an oxide layer that protects it from further corrosion.

>>1511670
>Brass and aluminum do both oxidize however they only oxidize a few thousandths of an inch

oxidization is the better term, you are correct, but why dont they use alu or brass in reinforced concrete then or build bridges out of them?

>as far as the airtight deal goes I have a author that I studied with a doctorate in this subject his name is Jeseph Lstiburek

Im not familiar with him, what is his position on airtight houses? I think its a very unintelligent overdesigned and under-thinked method.

yep those are both correct

>>1511674
cost and strength

an airtight building is kind of an interesting catch 22. Ideally you would have a 100% water tight building where you do not have any moisture intrusion,

but lets assume some how you magically achieve this, and then like a total faggot you make spaghetti, well guess what you just introduced moisture into the air. so now you have to get it out of the house in a controlled manner. so you add vents and if you vent air out you have to bring air in. so you have to condition the air coming in. and since you are going to do things like take showers, make spaghetti, mop the floors, get drunk and leave a pizza on the counter all of which bring moisture into the house you are already going to have to ventilate the house, so even an air tight house is not 100% air tight because of this but what you want Is a controlled ventilation where you are not accidentally sucking in air from the crawl space.

then you've got air conditioning which removes moisture from the air without actually ventilating which helps to dehumidify the air space,

honestly this subject is a bit much for a DIY forum.


but to answer your question a 100% sealed house would be a petri dish and a horrible place to live you absolutely need ventilation. But it needs to be controlled.

Ive found it guys!!!!

Venice!
Look how they stabilized the house on bad ground, why not use the same piked piers for the deck, just go 1:2 instead of 1:3. Mind you their foundations hold a STONE house.

thoughts?

>>1512267
Pilings are ridiculously overkill for a deck. You don't need to transfer the load down to bedrock.

That's pretty much how my house was done. They go 80 feet down.

Recommended brand of concrete to attach the posts to?

From a truck. Cheaper than bagged. Way less work.

>>1512693
they make post concrete that you don't even need to mix, just dump it in the hole, level up your post, pour some water in the hole (not too much) and leave it overnight. It's stupid easy. Also, as someone who works in construction, do not listen to the idiots in this thread. Holy shit this board is retarded. It's a simple question with a simple answer that has total retards telling tradesmen how stuff works. One dumbass is considering pilings for a fucking deck. Another isn't sure if wet wood expands and destroys the concrete around it, or if the wood itself cracks (it's neither, pressure treated lumber comes saturated with water so it will actually contract after installation).

>>1512965
>pilings for a fucking deck
Not to totally defend this idea, but over engineering is a good thing if you can afford it.

>INB4 deck will disintegrate decades before pilings begin to fail.
I know thats why I'm saying, not to totally defend the idea.

>>1511007
Soak ends of wood (the part that goes in ground) in used diesel motor oil. Will keep wood semi soft and does decent job of keeping out insects and rot/mold

>>1512965
You're a doofus. How long you rating that for? until your truck gets out of their parking lot? I've replaced fence posts like this before. Even some that where land scaping posts. Didn't, even bother to use a pressure treated 4X4. all wood in your scenario rots below the ground line unless you're in some unique situation of using some fine brazilian hard wood or have access to creosote.

>>1513050
No. Maybe better than nothing in regards to laying fence posts. That's it.

>>1511609
No. Marine ply is a certain grade of ply wood for defect. You soak it in epoxy resin then fiber glass the outside using polyester resin to make the wood impermeable to moisture.

>>1511553
Before you showed up to do ugg work a guy with a bulldozer spent time to create a special scenario where this works. You are not an architectural engineer you just are unaware you work for one.
-------------------

Guess what the casting in the pic is called. a deck block. This is economical vs. the fence post method even if you're DIY the repair. You're going to be putting more time in the repairs than these stupid blocks cost. If you`re using a shit ton of them then get a mold and caste them yourself. Combined with an exterior grade 4X4 they will give you no problems for your deck deep into the future, Unlike half assing it and burying a post in concrete, which is probably not even up to code and I would give a year to start shifting off level as the base of the post rots underground. Been here before, So it's like your future self telling you stop being a dumbass here..as if any of you actually had a deck to care about or could build one yourself thats not a pile of shit.

While we're on this topic. This is not a fence post. This is not a deck post. They will not work using them in any manner. If you see these in any project besides laying on their side landscaping it's the hallmark of a dumbass and indicates either run away or the project needs full remediation. 1. This wood needs to come out and be replaced with a proper exterior graded 4X4. 2. Whoever built what you're looking at had no idea wtf they where doing and cheaped out on material. This indicates much bigger problems.

>>1510935
Go with 4. One of the reasons your OP pic works is because the site was prepared. Decomposed granite shifts less so those footings are fine to increase the footing area to avoid the structure shifting off level.

If the site was not prepared and a different material such as soil or deep clay this would be insufficient even with a layer of decomposed gravel to prevent shifting. Those concrete pads would have to go down under ground like piers and connect to a concrete tube layed sideways to further increase surface area into a single unit of surface area.

When and if shit starts going off level you`ll be glad you went with #4. It's not the end of the world for your deck if you went #3. it's just WRONG here and increases the pain in the ass to turn them into #4`s down the road. If #4 starts sagging off level it's super easy to jack the deck up and shim it or pull the pad out level it and drop the deck back down.

>>1513077
And a heads up if you decide to be a dumbass to relevel 1-3. Jack the deck up so the jacks support the decks weight. Take the hardware out that connects the deck to the pier. Use the jacks and a level to relevel the deck then reattach the hardware before removing the jack. Boom, back to level. Keep doing this every 6 months because further driving your rotted pilings toward the center of the earth until your piers fully rot and your deck falls over. Then maybe start considering how to replace them with a #4

If I wanted to do an 8x8 children's playhouse using 10ft 4x4 posts, would my best bet on structural integrity of the posts be to place them in ground with concrete or would footing anchors be stable enough for the size of the structure?

>a few points glossed over
-if you live in Florida there are wind and uplift considerations
-if this is a "major" style "prom party deck" you need steel or CI supports, anchored in concrete and 2x8 framing.
-find out what the frost depth is where you live, footer should bear below this depth.
-the best way to attach concrete to your pt wood is some sort of cast in place anchor

>>1512693
>>1512965
preformed concrete posts like this pic>>1513064 are a horrible idea, they simply wont last and will drop in the ground eventually.

>>1513050
>Soak ends of wood (the part that goes in ground) in used diesel motor oil.

Its better to just put it dry in ground that to put toxins on it. It wont last any longer with diesel, I would bet it would last shorter actually.

>>1512660
>Pilings are ridiculously overkill for a deck.

they dont have to be extra deep, nor do I need to hit the bedrock, just go 1:2 and no cement, just earth.

>>1513077
>d of the world for your deck if you went #3. it's just WRONG here and increases the pain in the ass to turn them into #4`s down the road.

good insights anon, I was thinking the same, the #3 was just about experimenting without concrete. #4 is a reliable option.

What ground preparation should I look to be doing before mounting a deck?

>>1513084
>And a heads up if you decide to be a dumbass to relevel 1-3.

no worries, 4 is absolutely the best, but I think you underestimated how relaible pilings can be - trick is in choosing good ground and not put toxic shit on the wood to rot faster that it should.

>>1513184
>would my best bet on structural integrity of the posts be to place them in ground with concrete or would footing anchors be stable enough for the size of the structure?

anything is better for longterm durability than puting them in concrete, go with concrete footings+metal wood holder, option #4. just space them out for stability if your footings arent deep.

>>1510935
Rrnt a whacker packer and throw treated lumber on a pad of packed ab3.

>>1513265
>treated lumber

can someone tell me wtf is treted lumber? they just put toxins on it dont they?

>>1511054
Small always on bigger. If you ever get it packed tight you'll have very little trouble.

Dirt roads around here are just 11/2" and smaller rick with some fines taken out. Throw it on the ground and drive over it until it's packed

>>1511054
The post will wiggle loose. Concrete make solid.

Power poles dont use concrete tho

>>1511133
Damn. That would be great in my pond. I'm tired of chaining cynderblocks to shit.

>>1511137
BURN.

>>1511182
I dont see why not. Parking lot the earth and fuck your grass

>>1511318
He doesn't carry his rebar to work every day.

It's like your trying to be a normal and sensible human bean. We have no room for that kind of shit here.

>>1511332
Yall got me in tears. Mutherfuckers are actually arguing how to mount a fence post.

It's no mafe of gold. Throw the shit together and if it rots in 5 years buy another fucking 4x4 and throw it in.

Ffs....

>>1511474
It's called "crusher run" but good work. It's like everyone here walks by eons worth of trial and error shit that stands the test of time daily and thinks meh, fuckit I'll just wing it...

>>1511560
Just fuck a moisture barrier i guess?

>>1511609
Kek. Ocean doesnt lie.

>>1513285
>Throw the shit together and if it rots in 5 years buy another fucking 4x4 and throw it in.

why not do it properly in the first place and make it stand for 100 years, you absolute chink.

>>1511652
Not when you rock Nemesis at a dust manufacturing facility. Sunglasses are about to be an itemized deduction.

>buy new shades
>take off hat
>shades bounce off ground
>buy new shades

>>1512722
This.

We poored foot thick slabs not long ago and i was beat just building the forms and tying rebar.

Fuck mixing concrete

>>1512970
Maybe, but if it were me I'd save the money and just not drive loaded dump trucks on the deck.

>>1513050
This guy gets it.

Free car trailer deck stain also

>>1513064

>>1513068
Now he tells me... where were you when i bought my shithole house anon.

>>1513084
I would read a lot more beck and cuckshead plans if you wrote them

>>1513084
Deck. Ffs. I blame the Asians. Sausage fingered burger and lets give him tiny fucking buttons.

>>1513068
you are reffering to the there being the center of the grain so there is a high risk of warp or the shape of the cut?

also

>possible use

>>1513269
Yeah. Found that out trying to light a fire with an old power pole. Pretty sure everything they put on it is a fucking carcinogen

>>1513301
Because im gonna only be around for another 70 and its a waste of money grandad...

>>1513327
I might do this for a bar.

Any special snowflake shit i need or just get the quickcrete and a saw?

>>1513331
>Because im gonna only be around for another 70

even if you are a selfish boomer kike, by your own logic you should build for 70 or whatever years you have left not 5. building to last only 5 is a waste of money.

Infact even if you have only 50 years left and are a selfish boomer kike you should build for 100 in order to overbuild and have low mainintence in the future + better ROI in case of resale.

>>1513328
>Pretty sure everything they put on it is a fucking carcinogen

yeah, I haven even mentioned the foam isolation you americans use - it turns into dust and gets in kids lungs, asthma, lowers the lifespan of wood roofs...

Best "treatment" of wood is NOTHING. Just buy high quality hardwood for purpouses when you need to deal with water.

>>1513333
>quickcrete

you are a mong if you want to mix any kind of poly glue/cement with wood, you use mud in cordwood walls otherwise youll destroy the wood and walls.

>>1513264
Never used metal footings, didn't know how well they would hold 10ft posts. I figure the structure will support itself once it's all together. How many footings should I have for the play house? 8x8ft, 8ft walls, 2 ft off the ground. Thanks for the help.

>>1513458
>I figure the structure will support itself once it's all together.

that is the thing with option #4, it doesnt go deep in ground so you relly on it holding itself. I wouldnt
used raised one like this>>1510928
, use smth like this >>1510935, I know Im confusing you but also consider deeper pilings like this>>1512267

>>1513541
I got the metal footings with the two wavy prongs, got a bunch of 2x4 metal joiners as well just to make it as structural stable as possible since I'm expecting to let my 5y/o play in it if all goes well. Thanks for the info, first major project so trying to soak any and all info Google, YouTube, /diy/ can give me on the subject of base building and framing. Still really nervous about the alignment of the posts though, hate to get everything set and be off angle. Staked the ground and ran strings and lined up the center post with a plumb bob but can't help but just be worried once I get the concrete in the tube and the footing placed

>>1510928
>1. wood mounted IN the ground (with no additional material, just depth)

#1

DO NOT underestimate the simple method of wood piling, its far superior that McSlab foundation and good for moving grounds, I see no reason why not do a simple project of a deck this way

https://www.pinerivergroup.com/blog/wood-pilings

>>1513566
>Still really nervous about the alignment of the posts though, hate to get everything set and be off angle.

I cant help you more without a sketch, drop some simple drawing from paint or sketchup, I might tell more with that

AH alignment there is something that hasn't been discussed. THE 3-4-5 method is quite handy. You should get a cheap laser 50 bucks ought to do, they are fucking amazing, there are several different kinds so chose what you want. wood is not straight so be aware of that. if using a soft tape only use a steel one, the fiberglass ones stretch depending on how hard you pull and the temperature outside. Batten boards are your friend.

So your going with option 4

>>1510949
this is now code here for decks and such
I dont bury treated posts anymore except for a fence

>>1513575
coonass detected

>>1513578
Don't know how well I could convey the basic layout in sketch or even with my hand drawn layout but here is a pic from Google that is basically very similar to what I'm expecting. 3 walls, raised from the ground, open front, etc. The only difference is I'm going to be doing the roof like an observation deck, so exactly the same as the floor except I'm going to angle it slightly and caulk the 1x6 boards so it can still act as a roof with rain fall while also being a place to climb up to and sit/relax/star gaze which is what my daughter wanted to do.

>>1513683
that looks like a stable build (ideally the foundation pillings should extend to the roof), the less spaced out it is the more stable it will be, even if you connect piers by option 1, instead of 4 (you know the ground you are working with the best) it should work.

Another point, use wider beams that hold the house, and you can add stability by adding cross beams like this pic>>1513575, and the more deeper the pilings are,the more stable the house will be, but diging pilings deep isnt as easy since it depends on the soil so you might go with #4 and create cement foundation to attack wood. decide based on the size of the deck, size of wood beams and soil.

>>1513886
I bought the cement yesterday and my 4x4 posts are 10ft and I had planned to use them all the way up not just to the floor. My outer framing boards are 2x8s attached to the posts then 4 2x4 joists. Decided on 4 to place one at each 4x4 posts so the 1x6 planks going into the corners have something to join to. Otherwise going to dig down 18in and bought 12" diameter tubes for the concrete footings. So hopefully it'll be solid for awhile to come