/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>1426913
>for free
sure thing, goy

>>1426913
I installed the panel on the roof of the shed. It's a little to the left because that's where more sunlight hits. Also allows me to add another panel in the future if I want

>>1426915
Ran the wiring inside the shed then drilled a hole in the floor to bring it outside. The wire is rated for underground so I dug a little trench and piped it over into the house. I was gonna run the wire straight up but I put it in some PVC so the weedeater doesn't tear it up when I'm doing yard work

>>1426916
Starting to put everything in place. First I built a custom box to hold everything. Batteries emit hydrogen when they charge, so you have to leave vents for it to escape hence the side slats. Next I ran some electrical wire right above the baseboard and hid it with some cable-hider tubing. Plumbed it up through the wall and into a regular house outlet. I knew the waifu wouldn't use it if she had to plug stuff into the inverter because that's a whole thing. I wanted to make it as intuitive as possible so this setup keepsakes it simple to use

>>1426922
Added a lid onto the box and installed the solar charger. That just tells the panel to stop charging the battery once it gets full. I picked this one because it shows not just the voltage, but also the amps coming in from the panel. Here you can see there is 1.3amps coming in. Not much, but the sun isn't overhead around this time of day

>>1426928
Behind the magic curtain. The battery gets charged via the small cables, then electricity flows down the fatter wires to the inverter. The electrical plug then takes the electricity down to the wall outlet. Really basic setup

>>1426932
And the end result... free power!
There was an upfront cost of course, but now I can run lots of stuff for free. Also really nice to have some standby power in the event of a power outage. I already had the battery from my boat, so I figure it can get some usage when the boat isn't being used. Here's a breakdown of what it would cost to do this from scratch. Not bad considering the average home setup is about $15,000 -

$100 - Battery
$105 - 100 watt solar panel
$30 - inverter
$30 - solar charger
$35 - 50 feet of 12 gauge underground rated wire
$20 - 12 gauge electrical wire and male adapter
$10 - cable hider tubing
$8 - MC4 connectors to open wire adapter
$4 - junction box, outlet, faceplate

Probably forgot some stuff but with tax and all, looking at around $360-ish

>>1426943
>Not bad considering the average home setup is about $15,000 -
>Probably forgot some stuff but with tax and all, looking at around $360-ish

That's a bit misleading. What you have is one outlet, not a home setup.

Still, looks good. Wiring it into its own outlet, or set of outlets is a good idea.

>>1426913
Cool, how did you mount the panel?

Make sure the panel is somewhere with a lot of south / west sun, more sun will make a huge difference.

>>1426915
put the panel longside up at a 45 degree angle

>>1426943
well shit, maybe I should try this. better than my gas generator

>>1426913
Congratz! Solar Meme is Best Meme. Welcome to a whole new world of addiction. :P

I run my router, NAS, switch, and security system off my solar power 24/7 at my house. On sunny mornings I wake up and make my coffee using solar power too. It's a good feeling that I'm making that annoying fire ball in the sky my bitch.
The home system also in the event of a power outage runs my single room AC unit that I use to cool my bedroom. (Fuck living in the south, AC isn't optional if you are a onions boi with bad genetics prone to lung infections... I hate it here.) I don't run the AC full time on the system because I'd end up going real deep into my batteries, and since they're lead acid, that'd kill them off faster than I'd like. Most days though I have extra power during the day after my batteries hit float.

My camper trailer at our off-grid location has it's own system, but the batteries are Lithium. So I have it cooled 24/7 and run the security cameras here as well, along with anything else I want.

Both systems have over 2KW of solar panels.

>>1427359
Just remember to size appropriately.
A lot of people say stupid shit when they first get into solar (and a lot abandon it) like, "Oh, you can't run air conditioning, it's not feasible." or, "Oh, it's no good cause you can only power small loads."
SIZING is important. You want 2KW of power around the clock? Well, I hope you have a big ass roof or yard for the panels, and a LOT of big ass batteries and a big inverter... Oh, and deep pockets. :P


Also, most people with large systems choose to have a gas, diesel, or natural gas / biogas generator as a backup. The reason being is that you really want to make sure your critical loads (like your fridge and such) don't go down because of bad weather.
Some fancy people even build HHO gas systems that create HHO gas when there's excess solar power coming in and store it, and then use it to run a generator later. It really closes the loop so to speak on where you're getting your fuel for your backup generator, and it's awesome but... man it's expensive and dangerous if done wrong.

>>1426943
Ok, I ran the math, the actual results might differ depending on where you live, but assuming you use all the power the panel generates and with a energy price of $0.13 per kWh (usa average), you should generate about $590 worth of energy.
Of course this value will be cut down by battery, inverter, etc efficiency, but still very good if you spent just $360 for it.

>>1427735
I meant $ 590 worth of energy over the lifespan of the installation (assumed 20 years)

>>1426943
You know how many energy you could buy for that? Around these parts it's a good 3 mwh. Not kilowatts, megawatts.

In order for you to produce 3 megawatts with a 100w panel it would take you approximately 7500 days of perfect weather (4h/d @100w), or just over 20 years, assuming nothing breaks.

Oh, I made a mistake, this anon is right >>1427751

>>1427751
Yea, but you're discounting the amusement and benefits of backup power that it provides, imho.
Of course buying power from the power company in the USA is cheaper, in most cases. We have nearly free power as it is. Nuclear plants and hydro electric dams make it so there's so much, we have to give it away sometimes.

But using that power isn't as amusing.
And if the grid's down for any reason, you can't use that power, so having your own puts you ahead in some situations.
Not trying to be a crazy prepper guy here, but some areas have a lot of storms or other things that cause issues with the grid, so if you were to 'price' power during those times, you might find that solar is actually a pretty good option.

>>1427767
>solar power during a storm
why not just charge your batteries with mains and use that during a power failure like everyone?

>>1427769
I take it you live in an area that there's no lasting damage from storms that inhibits grid power usage?

>>1427767
200 dollar generator (200w) plus 160 bucks of gas (~50 gal) is more than enough to run house essentials like refrigeration and a water heater for any emergency you might have. A 100w panel and 100 dollar battery just won't.

Also, the formulas posed don't account for the vast losses from things like voltage conversion, charging inefficiency, and standby power to run your inverter or charger. It also assumes you use every drop of energy that comes in.

>>1427774
Correction, 2000w generator, not 200w.

>>1427775
I don't know of a $200 generator that will kick out 2000 Watts in a form remotely usable... if you do, where do I get that?

>>1427778
The Homeless Despot, of course. Champion brand.

>>1427767
Diff guy here.

The energy it took to make that panel is more than all the energy it will ever make. It's creation contributed to everlasting toxins to the earth. There's nothing "green" about it, nor efficient nor even practical. Like the previous guy said u'd be better off trickle charging a battery bank with the mains.

Solarpanels are for calculators, remote instrument logging and people with money to burn.

>>1427778
I paid 250 for my 5kw at Canadian Tire.

>>1427779
Ehhh... I mean... my UPS's won't even run off those guys... they refuse to re-attach to the house 'grid' when I hooked the one of those I have up (given it's only 1400 running watts but still... nothing but the fridge and my computers were on...) because the waveform sucks so much. :/

Before anyone says, "No, it's cause of the ground fault."... it's not, checked that. Fucking annoying too cause I have tried to use that in a grid-down situation before I had my solar setup.

And yes, we disconnected the house from the downed grid before plugging a generator in... duh.

>>1427786
Then u got a funky dyno. My crappy tire version works awesome even on the scope.

>>1427786
Generators of that calibre are only meant to power the essentials like refrigerators, not sensitive electronics. You need something a little higher on the scrotum pole for computers and whatnot, or alternatively, just shut down your stationaries safely (like the UPS is intended for) and use a battery powered mobile device like a laptop.

>>1427781
Eh... not necessarily true I'd argue. While a lot of previous manufacturing plants actually used more to create the panel than the panel would ever yield, that stuff is actually getting more efficient over time.
And solar panels aren't toxic if made, used, and recycled correctly. They don't spew toxins into the air or anything while in use.


To be clear, I'm not saying anyone's wrong that there are cheaper forms of power. There are. In a lot of cases, something else is cheaper, and even possibly more 'green' depending on a number of factors.
But the way I see it, solar is getting more efficient (production energy cost and the cost per watt produced by the panels), and there's more and more demand for it as new variations emerge and become viable. I'm probably paying an 'early adopter tax' of sorts (duh, of course I am) by having this as a hobby. But I'm okay with that and hope that the industry continues to grow and mature, and hope users like myself help it do so by contributing to demand.

>>1427788
Huh... maybe I'll take another look at it sometime and see if something's up with it. :/ Sounds reasonable and would be my kind of luck. :/

>>1427789
I've seen some inverter generators that people have said worked well... but I suppose really if I wanted to run off a generator I COULD just build a filter mechanism of sorts so that I could run the sensitive stuff off the crappy sine wave. Or get a fancy AC-DC-AC style UPS.

>>1427794
It might just be overloading. Use a watt meter to see how much power your refrigerator is drawing on startup; it could be well over the maximum of the generator. A good refrigerator may only use 800wh a day, but it may require a 15-20a socket for the initial pull.

>>1427796
Reasonable theory... but I have now plugged the UPS into the thing directly (nothing else in line, nothing even plugged into the UPS) and the UPS still is like 'oh fuck no you don't.' and won't switch to it and recharge.

Must be the dyno being fucky... I don't have a scope available at the moment to check what's going on in more detail, but <something> is up with it.

It's not even like it could be producing a square wave. It's turning something... it'd be more work to make it a square wave, and I don't see cheap china-built stuff having more components.

Cool, now you can save $1.75 on your power bill a month.

>>1427799
Depending on the model of ups you can set it to generator mode and it'll become far more forgiving.

>>1427833
Most of the UPS's I have are cheap APC ones... no display or anything, just some indicator lights. I'll check though in the manuals.

>>1427873
Then that's why.
http://www.tech-army.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1129&title=generator-will-not-run-ups-battery-backup

I actually have an apc xs 1300 and it works fine. Shitty models can't handle a +/- 0.5 Hz variance. For true, clean power i'd use an inline one with double conversion like an Eaton 9130.

>>1427888
I kind of wonder which would be the cheaper option... replacing the UPS or getting an inverter-generator. :/

It's normally not a problem, but it's kind of annoying that I can't top off my batteries if I know it's gonna be cloudy and run my computer and such at the same time. :/ I suppose this is just me throwing money down (yet another) hole, as I've literally needed the generator one time in like... 2 years. :P
The solar has kept up reliably for that whole time except for that one winter week.

But still, I can't stand something being 'wrong' or incompatible or such. :/ I'll have to see if I can find an APC XS 1300 cheap-ish. Seems the best way to get a UPS is find someone who threw it out because the batteries went out. :D

>>1427911
dude, just attach a combustion engine to the axle of the fridge compressor, fuck electricity

>>1427917
kek

>>1427917
That's how cars do it.

>>1426943
Brand name of solar panel, inverter and charger? Where did you procure them?

Also, aren't you supposes to use deep cycle batteries and not regular car/boat batteries?

>>1426943
It's not "free".
It's $360 that you subsidized for this thing, and now you're going to have to calculate how long it takes for the solar cell to generate enough power, relative to the dollar amount per kW/h, and for how long the solar cell might live past the break-even point.

>>1427781
>The energy it took to make that panel is more than all the energy it will ever make

That is complete bullshit.

> It's creation contributed to everlasting toxins to the earth

True but so do most other power generation methods. And do you really care if the chinese poison themselves while we get clean power.

>>1427986

>>1427987
Or you can look at carbon intensity

>>1427781
>>1427986
>>1427987

The thing I dont get is why you would mindlessly spout bullshit you heard from some partisan hack without taking the 10s to look it up.

>>1427989
you can keep your panels, I'll keep supporting nuclear

Wow guys, really disappointed by some of the replies here discussing the cost of solar vs. the grid. The whole point of renewable energy is that it's clean and doesn't constantly pollute toxic smoke into the air. If a solar setup lasts 20 years, that's 20 years of not polluting each day. Saving the world costs money and that's why people don't want to do it. Fuck the cost, I'm trying to survive the planet slowly becoming uninhabitable. For those of you comparing costs, maybe look at it as an investment in your future if you want to keep living here

>>1427331
I bought a few L brackets from Home Depot and bent them into S brackets. Attached one to the panel and the other to the shed. Put some caulk over it to keep the rain out, pic related

>>1427351
Sun rises behind the house and sets in front so this works best.

>>1427728
That's cool, hope to go full solar when I get my retirement home

>>1428005
>t. brainlet

What you don't understand is that the economy is a flow of energy. Power generation is the base of the economy, because everything runs on electricity.
Without electricity you cannot run oil refineries, without oil products you cannot run the harvesters at the farms, or the fishing ships, or the trucks that send the food to the cities.
An inefficient power source means a crippled economy, I won't care much about some distant future if I have problems NOW.
>The whole point of renewable energy is that it's clean and doesn't constantly pollute toxic smoke into the air. If a solar setup lasts 20 years, that's 20 years of not polluting each day.
No, moron,the point of renewables is that they cannot be depleted, it's right in their name. And manufacturing those solar panels still produces pollution, even more if you consider the batteries that you need when you use solar power.
>Fuck the cost, I'm trying to survive the planet slowly becoming uninhabitable.
Carbon dioxide will not kill us, it is not poisonous. Climate change is real, but nobody knows how much is manmade, we know for sure it can change naturally, and that nature can change it really fast.
>or those of you comparing costs, maybe look at it as an investment in your future if you want to keep living here
Are you trolling or are you just dumb? We are literally considering it an investment and calculating the EPBT, do you even know what investment is?
Go back to r*ddit, moron.

>>1427957
I got the panel and solar charger from Amazon, and the inverter from Harbor Freight. Found an insider track coupon to get the inverter for $30 and used another coupon to get a free power strip. Couldn't find the insider track coupon but here's one good for 25% off this weekend, would make it the same price

Newpowa 100 Watt Monocrystalline Panel
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LY02BOA?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title

20 Amp Solar Charger
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LZZMDSQ?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title

750 Watt Inverter
https://m.harborfreight.com/750-watt-continuous1500-watt-peak-modified-sine-wave-power-inverter-69660.html

>>1427751
Yeah, but will the battery last 20 years, or only 5?

It's even worse than this

>>1428004
That is a reasonable position to take.

Problem is supporting nuclear in spirit is easy supporting it with money is hard. But you can go down the shops this afternoon and buy solar panels.

>>1428022
Much worse. The cheap inverter and charge controller would probably eat up 50% of any usable power, plus solar panels and batteries degrade over time.

A small solar setup like that will never be able to compete with grid power for cost, but it may be practical where grid power is unavailable, like in an off-grid property or RV.

>>1428030
>A small solar setup like that will never be able to compete with grid power for cost
see
>>1428005

>>1428043
/out/ is not /diy/ nature boy. Excuse me while I fire up my truck and roll some coal.

>>1427786
you need to get a line conditioner, amazon and microcenter has them, I had the same issue with my generator until I bought one

>>1427736
>lifespan of the installation
I'm pretty sure those lead acids don't last 20 years if you charge and discharge them regularly. Because of this, systems that push power into the grid through the day are better.
It's not impossible to make a solar system with good ROI, but you must use your own labor at no cost, and quite a bit of it.
>order 4W 6x6" cells from china en masse, usually costs $200 for 100pcs, $0.5/W
>buy the tabs
>buy thin plexi/PC glass
>figure out something for the frame
>put it all together
>assuming you can nigger rig the frame for about $100, you get a 400W panel for $300
>yearly output will be around 400-500kWh, worth $50-70
>panel pays for itself in ~5 years, + inverter
On small scale the inverter can cost quite a bit, but cost doesn't scale linearly, so larger systems pay for themselves sooner. Adding batteries will make it never or just barely pay for itself regardless of what you do.

>>1426913
I wish batteries didn't increase in price exponentially in the past 5 years.

>>1428005
The main draw for solar is energy independence. It will never be cost effective nor environmentally friendly. This is directly tied to energy storage. The hybrid grid-tied systems that don't use energy storage are the best way to go, but they are not totally energy independent. They could be with supplemental systems like wind, tidal, hydro, etc. but that is determined more by location than anything.

The largest problem is that all forms of utility power generation are very heavily subsidized by the government. Meaning tax dollars are paying for the electric more than you are paying for it on your electric bill. If there were no subsidies for utility power, you'd be paying something like $5 per kwh. Then solar would be cost effective.

>>1427986
>>1427991

K u have infographics but I worked for Helene, a panel manufacturer. Their cells are not made in the US or china, but brazil. The assembly was done in North America. Some shit came from China but it was not solar material. And as for the energy VS payback, most of the loss is through shipping, making the silicon etc. Glass takes an enormous amount energy to do anything with. Even today most manufacturers admit it'll take about 20 years for payback, at rating, which drops to 80 percent after all that time.

BTW that infographic is an average for products released on the market. It does not account for everything else that plant did to get there which makes it a fallicy. One factor we would omit that comes to mind was we didn't include warm up energy or rejects per 1000 units in those stupid reports. Furthermore when that study came out Berlusconi cut all the solar funding and I assure you the project in Sicily is a fuckin wasteland as are the hundreds that got started and lost purse strings.

"Clean" power. Pfft. The only clean solar power are solar concentrators and towers. Not silicon you fuckin twits. Your kids will be drowning in solar waste and solar debt.

And as for other generating methods that make toxins, hydro does not. Nuclear makes 300x less per watt and it gets reused in the next gen plant. Not to mention the massive carbon footprint we see in panels.

Enjoy your meme kids.

>>1428154
oh, you just reminded me of something, in my college they installed some solar panels, and used them to help power the air conditioning
thats about the best use for it, because energy is demanded at the same time it is produced

or it would if my college wasnt mostly night courses, kek

>>1428027
I can support it by buying irradiated food and telling people to not be scared of it.

>>1428027
>supporting nuclear
>fukushima

>>1428187
>solar
>It will never be cost effective nor environmentally friendly.

I think one trillion green plants and trees of planet Earth would disagree with you.

This thread is shit.

>>1428366
>fukushima
look up how many people died because of it hint: 0

>I think one trillion green plants and trees of planet Earth would disagree with you.
plants dont use nearly as much energy as we do

>>1428366
>one(two) isolated case of mismanagement means that the whole technology of nuclear power generation is bad
>a million well documented studies that can even be verified on your own are irrelevant and solar panels are good

>>1426913
I got these but really I don't know shit about them besides that we sell the power to the power company.

>>1428375
Got so excited that I forgot my pic.

>>1428012
That panel is too close to the surface it's mounted to. It's going to have thermal issues.

You should generally leave about 3 - 5 inches of clearance, minimum, between the surface and the panel frame for air flow.

>>1428022
Unfortunately I agree with the point that OP's battery will need replacing rather soon, most likely.

Newer Lithium batteries have a chance of lasting ~25 years.

But "RV" flooded lead acid are not built to last, sadly. That's why the RV guys are always bitching about having to replace their 'house' batteries. A lot have opted to swap them out for high end AGM's or high end flooded ones. They cost 3 - 5 times as much but... :/ You get what you pay for.

Newer LiFePO4 substitutes for 12 volt lead acid's are usually the best choice, unless the battery will be subjected to below freezing temperatures. (Below 0C that is.)

>>1428046
Oh fuck off douchebag. No one likes it when you spew crap into the air on purpose.

Argue all day about if you want to be 'more green' with your transportation method or not... but the whole 'roll coal!' shit is just wasteful, dumb, and vomit-inducing.

No one cares that your truck can waste diesel better than someone else's truck. -_- Christ, it's like the special Olympics for rednecks.

>>1428377
Nice array. Nice dubs.

>>1428526
>'roll coal!' shit is just wasteful
wasteful how? if we werent burning that coal it would just sit there
that carbon used to be part of the biosphere, then it got trapped, now we are releasing it again so that it can become biomass once more
>not realizing human civilization is just another force of nature

>>1428541
You've got to be a troll...

Here's some of mine...

>>1428581
can you refute anything of what I said?

>>1428591
Other animals don't set things on fire on purpose, in an industrialized fashion.

Also, if we want to keep being able to live on earth, we have to make sure we keep it's environment habitable FOR US, not just 'an environment'. -_-

>>1428595
>Other animals don't set things on fire on purpose, in an industrialized fashion.
nice cherrypicking, did you know that there are entire forests that have fires as part of their natural cycle? I mean, the seeds of those trees cannot germinate unless their outer shell is burnt, fire is part of their lives.
Also, do you have any goddamn idea how much other organisms impact the world? They don't have a "negative" impact because anything that would have been negatively affected is already dead, only things that are positively or not affected remain alive. It's called evolution.

Read on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event
Billions of years ago some algae filled the atmosphere with oxygen, which was very poisonous back then and killed almost all life on the planet, only extremophiles that could resist or breath the poison survived.

>we have to make sure we keep it's environment habitable FOR US, not just 'an environment'
look again at the GOE, the algae that did that survived, they're still alive

This climate change fear campaign won't kill us, we are amongst the most adaptable species in the planet, we can live in all land environments and we can eat many kinds of food. Roaches and rats only achieved global presence because they hitched on our ships and ate our food.

>>1428604
I'm failing to see how this is related to the thread, or how it makes 'rolling coal' not wasteful.

>Takes fuel, releases it into atmosphere partially burned to make giant cloud of smoke, instead of performing a useful function.

Yea, totally not wasteful. -_-

>>1428609
ok, you got me, didnt even know "coal rolling" existed, I thought you were talking about using coal for power

>I'm failing to see how this is related to the thread
and I fail to see what "coal rolling" has to do with is either

>>1428210
>And as for the energy VS payback, most of the loss is through shipping, making the silicon etc. Glass takes an enormous amount energy to do anything with

First you expect me to believe that the figures I gave dont include energy inputs for manufacturing components, overheads, or shipping. Then you want me to believe that that energy is over ten times what was actually counted. That's a pretty incredible call, how about some kind of reference?

>Even today most manufacturers admit it'll take about 20 years for payback, at rating, which drops to 80 percent after all that time.

Link? There are a lot of manufacturers so finding one saying 20 year payback shouldn't be hard.

>>1428682
Depends on the system, region, usage, and a bit of luck for "payback".

For example, if you use the DC power directly from economical panels as it comes in without any voltage conversion or storage losses, you'd probably make your money back incredibly quickly. L

If you instead had a contractor set up a high-end monocrystaline grid-tied system where you basically pushed energy upstream during the day and used energy downstream in the evening, the local energy company can pay you significantly less for upstream energy and you'd never get to the payoff point before your equipment stops functioning.

And in any of these cases, if you had a bad hailstorm, an unlucky lighning strike, or some jerk with a big enough rock, you better have insured your equipment!

>>1428210
Here is an old article commonly cited by others that specifically addresses energy inputs of silicon and accounts for waste. It gives 2-8 years for payback. Remember these are 20 year old numbers.

https://dspace.library.uu.nl/bitstream/handle/1874/7966/98054.pdf

>>1428685
>Depends on the system, region, usage, and a bit of luck for "payback".

I was talking about energy payback not getting your money back. Getting your money back is going to be harder than getting the energy back as it depends on all the stuff you mention whereas energy only depends on the sun.

Here is a page from Australia that says a 5kW system will pay for itself in 2-7 years. Depending on how much sun, system costs, power costs, feed in prices, export ratio.

https://www.choice.com.au/home-improvement/energy-saving/solar/articles/solar-panel-payback-times

>>1428012
>niggerteir

>>1428589
Nice, do you see any better amperage from the ones laying flat vs the tilted ones?

>>1428373
>one(two) isolated case of mismanagement means that the whole technology of nuclear power generation is bad
Nuclear technology as a whole is bad. Once you split the atom you get both near infinite power and also a tool that can destroy the planet. I'm not an expert, but I assume that knowledge of one enables the other. Think about that for a minute.

In addition, there is pollution from Nuclear power. While it's effficient, it is not clean. It's also centralized, while solar is distributed.

>a million well documented studies that can even be verified on your own are irrelevant and solar panels are good
>a million studies backed by oil money

Look outside, and all around you there are plants and animals using solar power. Maybe every tree on the planet uses solar.power to sustain itself. It's everywhere.

Humans should do the same. They won't, but they should. People need to invest in order to make panels more efficient. So go buy solar panels.

>>1428856
>every tree on the planet uses solar.power to sustain itself
>Humans should do the same

I'm off to cut down the cities' street trees that are stealing all my sunlight.

>>1428856
That solar comes from nuclear be cause it is nuclear. It's performing fusion. You also can't turn a power plant into a bomb, only the refinery can do that and even then there's lots more to do. Comparing solar to nuclear there's less waste in nuclear this is well documented. The problem with nuclear is people think we live in a marvel universe.
Your million well documented cases of solar energy still did nothing significant except cause a solar gold rush. It doesn't run plants or refineries. It doesn't power cities. Nuclear, hydro, coal all made your life possible.

In short you're a leftist moron with homoplanet tendencies and no concept of reality or science. Fuck this thread.

>>1428856
>every tree on the planet uses solar.power to sustain itself
>Humans should do the same

No they do the exact opposite of photosynthesis.

>>1428856
>a tool that can destroy the planet
vastly overstated, volcanic explosions and earthquakes release more energy, and we're still alive
nuclear winter is bogus science
radiation decays

>>1428856
>Look outside, and all around you there are plants and animals using solar power. Maybe every tree on the planet uses solar.power to sustain itself. It's everywhere.

We eat those plants and animals, we use that solar energy to power our bodies, you not realizing this leads me to believe that you don;'t understand what you're saying and just repeating stuff you heard.


>Humans should do the same. They won't, but they should. People need to invest in order to make panels more efficient. So go buy solar panels.

>humans
>they

Ayy lmao. We use that solar energy, the first energy we learned to use. But it is too dilute to use in industrial application that require more intense energy.
Our bodies can run on 2000 Kcal/day, which is around 100 w. Our machines consume way more power, they need a bigger power source.

>>1428865
Kek, hey now, I'll share, they just gotta not be too tall in my area.

>>1428920
2000 Kcal/day =/= 100 W.
Amount =/= Rate.

If you're saying that the human body uses about 100 Watts constantly, over 24 hours, that's 2.4 KWhrs a day. While pretty efficient compared to some things, some of us generally don't do anything worth nearly that much energy. XD

>>1429135

~100W average over the course of a day is a rough average for a human. The vast majority of that goes to maintaining body temperature.

>>1428856
>I'm not an expert, but I assume that knowledge of one enables the other.
>I'm not an expert
>Think about that for a minute.

Well, neither am I, yet I'm still aware that we live in the information age and there's literally no fucking excuse for making claims you aren't sure about when a simple Google search will give you the answer. But I'll save you the trouble: Nuclear fuel and nuclear explosives are not interchangeable. You need additional, extremely energy-intensive processing of radioactive material in order to get a usable nuclear explosive.

Unless you're literally arguing that we shouldn't even know HOW to do either of these things. In which case, well, too fucking bad, we already do, and there's no going back now.

>>1429135
>2000 Kcal/day =/= 100 W.
amount/day = rate

100*60*60*24=8,640,000
W*s*min*h=J/day
8,640,000*0.24=2,065,000
J*0.24=cal/day
2,065,000/1000=2,065
cal/1000=kcal

100W~=2000kcal/day


>2.4 KWhrs a day. . . some of us generally don't do anything worth nearly that much energy. XD

yes fat people exist

>>1428856
>Once you split the atom you get both near infinite power and also a tool that can destroy the planet.

You do understand that nuclear power plants aren't using fission to create the power, right?

>>1428856
>solar power is clean
wrong
>nuclear power is not clean
wrong
>centralized
wrong
>once you split the atom you get both near infinite power and also a tool that can destroy the planet
wrong
also you can't just delete knowledge you fucking luddite.

>>1429189
>nuclear power plants aren't using fission to create the power
misleading

ABSOLUTE TRUTH OF NUCLEAR POWER:
1. France's entire power grid is powered using nuclear power. Their power plants do not produce fissible byproducts (i.e. the stuff that goes into bombs). It is the most energy-stable country in the world.
2. Nuclear waste is literally just very hot irradiated metal pellets that you can bury in the desert or in a mountain where it can do no harm to anybody
3. All power systems are distributed. ALL of them. Do you think that "knocking out the power grid" is possible? You fucking can't. Not without a natural disaster-tier event. France sells its excess power generation to neighboring countries.
4. solar panels just move the environmental decay from one part of the world to the other
>he thinks there isn't an environmental cost associated with the manufacturing of solar panels and lithium-ion batteries
Think of all of the Chinese slaves you're ironically poisoning because of your obsession with ethics.

You're not an expert but you talk as if you think you are one.

>>1428366
Look up studies on deaths per TW of different power sources. Nuclear is nowhere near as dangerous as lobbyists and people thriving on fearmongering would have you believe.

>>1429213

Yeah from what I gathered it goes (best to worst)

Nuclear ---- Hydro ------ Solar ----- Tidal ------------------------------- Wind

>>1428373
>one(two) isolated case of mismanagement means that the whole technology of nuclear power generation is bad
Wrong answer, waldo. The whole technology of nuclear IS flawed for the simple fact that, to date, NOT A SINGLE nation state on this planet has managed to implement a long-term storage solution for their high level nuclear waste product. The glowing spigot has been open for over half a century and NOTHING! Not so much as one tenable maintenance facility to address the issue of long term nuclear waste management while thousands of tons of this shit continue to pile up in the meantime. Not an anti-nukefag, but this has got to be concerning. Yikes.

>>1428856
>Nuclear technology as a whole is bad. Once you split the atom you get both near infinite power and also a tool that can destroy the planet. I'm not an expert, but I assume that knowledge of one enables the other. Think about that for a minute.

Just kill yourself.

>>1429320

How much did your mother abuse you?

>>1428005
Fuck the planet i want free power...

>>1428366
>use heavy equipment to strip dirt and haul away
>use heavy equipment to drill
>use dynamite and deisle soaked ammonium nitrate (anfo)
>blow everything to shit
>cause manmade siesmic activity in or around water table
>use heavy equipment to break up boulders
>use heavy equipment to feed crushing plant
>use off grid or massive tie in to run crushing and sorting plant
>use heavy equipment to stockpile

Muh environmentally friendly. Top fucking kek. And above is just for the rock and materials that need mined.

>>1428377
Nice work anon!

>>1428526
Yes, but you forget that shit is fun. Much like my flame throwers and waste oil furnace and foundry.

Suckit envirofag

>>1428595
>A U D I B L E S I G H

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/australian-raptors-start-fires-to-flush-out-prey&ved=0ahUKEwjOuuiQ363cAhUDXK0KHe2aBJ0QFggyMAI&usg=AOvVaw0CgUgGwNpFPpLoc-tEe3U5

>>1428609
>instead of performing a useful function...

Nigga u ever to a ride in a 1,000hp 4x4 sorry about your dick pickup.

Talk about a ride. You can get a drag car to drag the ass end easy.

Spinning 4 wrinkle walls is riding on a fucking rocket

>>1428856
Nigga this is /diy.

Find some old windows and buy some cells

>>1428865
You should at least put a mask on and dump buckets of boiled salt water on them.

Kek

>>1428866

LIBKEKS BTFO WITH YOUR GAY SHIT. MAGA!

>>1429135
2.4kw of shitposting per day. Fuck i love this place

>>1429350
Not nearly enough. He's still an oxygen thief...

>>1429350
>luk guise i pose clever kwip hahah
>i bet my three shiny monies that other tardations can post to my post and we can laffs with another
>who fukk knows bout all that hard stuffs
>it's boring I dont want talk to it
>besides watch me count with my marbles
>yayyyy

>>1429424
>use dynamite to create coal mines
>use trains that pollute across the country to haul in coal
>use heavy machinery to push said coal into a pile
>use radio active material to scan coal as it comes up the conveyor belt
>use an entire plant to generate electricity
>smoke stack constantly emitting smoke from burned coal
>use heavy machinery to take ash to the ash pond
> My dad works at a coal plant for over 30 years, I know exactly how it works and how much pollution it creates

But please, tell us more about how a solar panel quietly sitting still for 20 years is killing the planet

>>1429506
That's easy. It kills the vegetation below it.

>>1429506
Well unless you know everything about what goes into creating solar cells i guess you can go fuck yourself huh?

>>1428014
>t. Boomer

Are you being intentionally dumb or do you not know what a market externality is? Good luck with your economy when droughts hit your shithole flyover state.

>>1429538
>vegetation below it

The only vegetation below my solar panels before I installed was myself. Checkmate.

>>1428843
Well, it depends on the time of year, but since it's summer right now, the flat ones (by a bit) out perform the tilted ones.

Ideally though, the tilted ones are 'overall better' if you took a year-long record. I have 2 other arrays like the tilted ones, positioned to extend my 'solar day' as long as possible.

The flat laying panels will actually soon be tilted, but I plan on building their mount adjustable, for better performance at different times.

>>1429630
kek! Gave me a chuckle.

Also, everyone that thinks solar panel production is 'not green' is really just referring to decade (or more) old studies that are completely irrelevant now.

Also, as more and more renewables are used on the grid and in transportation, fun fact, solar panel production gets 'greener'.

>>1429686
Yes because making silicon junctions is just sooooo green lol

>>1427773
i, for one, live in a society.

>>1429754
Ah, that's where we differ. I live in Alabama. XD

>>1429688
One of the many issues being improved upon constantly.

Also, not only silicon wafer technologies exist. :P

>>1429772
True.
And true.
But still bro.

>>1428688
>>1429686

This is a 20 year old study that says they made all their energy back in 8 years st the absolute latest.

The retards are just conflating getting their money back with being green

>>1429847
The studies are retarded cause of the interpretation.

There's still nothing "green" about solar even with the layman's justification. It's a bitter pill. It's like Mr Garrisons vehicle.

You know those big solar farms out in the desert i wonder how many pv cells they use?
Oh,none? Interesting i wonder why.
anyway you can't be green off grid, sell your surplus instead of storing it, find and energy company that will give you a return meter and annoy your neighbors with boosted noisy voltage.

>>1429847
So, here's the three things everyone who's a 'solar nay sayer' will always try and bring up:


>1) It's more expensive.
Maybe, but maybe not. Really depends on your situation. And on a large scale? Solar can be very economical. Also, not a lot of people go solar (especially off grid) in the USA at the moment to save $$$. So it's kind of a moot point. This isn't 'DIY Personal Financial Advice.'


>2) Solar panels produce less power over their lifespan than it took to create them.
This is not true, and hasn't been true for a long time. Modern stuff can pay back it's energy cost in as little as 3 or 4 years in a grid-tied scenario.


>3) Solar panels cause more pollution during their production than they could 'save' us during their entire lifespan.
This is also not true. A coal fired power plant spews a SHITLOAD of pollution into the air directly, and it's constant maintenance and fuel delivery mechanisms (as previously pointed out) contribute to EVEN MORE pollution. EVEN WITH the least clean solar panel production methods, the pollution released per KW of panels produced, is NOT EVEN CLOSE the pollution you'd get by burning coal or such to generate the same KWh as that KW of panels would over their lifetime.

A lot of people site silicon wafer solar panels as being 'more harmful than beneficial' because of silicon foundries that don't obey regulations regarding waste management and such.
This IS a problem in some areas, but over time it is getting better. No one's denying the need for cleaner manufacturing tactics, for solar panels and other products as well. (Remember, we use silicon for A LOT of things...)
But the sad fact is, the incredible amount of pollution that current power plants (particularly coal) produce makes even the worst solar panel production methods look 'green' in comparison.

>>1429981
1) without subsidies its the hyperloop. Also beelions invested and it hardly accounts for 1 % of grid capacity. So economical.

2) maybe if u live in California. That shit is so biased it reeks of weed and granola. My home town did this in northern Ontario. 8 years ago. Still paying for it.

3) now this is just an unfair comparison. It's a bad argument and you should feel bad for it. The two types of pollution aren't even comparable. And your shitty claim that carbon burning pollution is not as green as silicon processing is *laughable*. I'm not even gonna entertain arguing this you can wiki it yourself.

This is like talking to a flat earther. You never get anywhere because they only believe their version of science, you know the non peer reviewed kind. Just like the info graphics on energy payback... Written by solar manufacturing companies with huge omissions in their results. What I'm most surprised about is why no one mentioned Kyocera... But then u solar geeks should be experts about them right?

>>1429627
Flyover states produce more energy than containment center states, and then sell it to your stupid commie ass.

>>1426913
Just the lights to the shed, and planning to set up a solar water pump next summer. Real satisfying it is.

>>1428014
>I have problems now
The eternal boomer's justification for all laziness and cowardice.

>>1428368
>Trusting the people putting out those numbers.
Anyone look up the economic cost of the Fukishima cleanup even ignoring increased cancer rates? I was for nuclear power until you shills just completely disregarded your audience's potential for critical thinking.

>>1428866
>Fusion is the same as fission
>Dirty bombs aren't bombs because the deaths aren't immediate
>Nuclear is good for the planet, not that I care!
>Muh atomic horror!
>You're being jewed by the solar panel manufacturers!
>Solar doesn't scale!
>YOU VOTED FOR THE WRONG SIDE REEEEEEEEE!

>>1429985
1. I can buy a 5kWp system for $4500 sell my power to the grid for less than the suppliers wholesale cost and still make my money back in 5 years. Where is the subsidy?

2. What so because it doesn't work for your dreary shithole everyone should just give up? That is some terrible logic.

3. Now this isn't even an argument. Try coming up with some points instead of calling that guy dumb and people might take you seriously.

No one is saying solar is perfect, that it works for everyone. But solar does work

I've been stealing the solar panels off the pay-to-ride bikes in my city, anybody know the best way to get them wired up? I'm not well versed in electrical matters

>>1430311
Kek, what? Pics?

Thinking of getting this battery monitor for my setup, as the cheap one I have now isn't working nearly well enough for me, and I can't access it remotely or via my phone, I have to literally LOOK at the display.

Victron BMV-712

www altestore.com/store/deep-cycle-batteries/battery-maintenance-tools/victron-energy-smart-battery-monitor-bmv-712-p40934/

Anyone have one? Do you like it? So far everyone's said it's pretty good but there's apparently some bug that you need to update the firmware first before it'll connect via bluetooth to your Android phone; And supposedly you need an iOS device to do that.

Anyone know a way around this? I don't have any iOS devices...

>>1430304
Ok

1)ur just dumb. http://hespv.ca/residential-solar-energy-systems/canadian-energy-programs
The only reason you make anything off it is cause the govt forces this to happen. Solar still only contributes to 1% of total global capacity and its been billions into investing.

2) no the logic is sometimes its simply not worth it. Use your brain before busting out wallet. What the town did was part of a publicity stunt. In hindsight there were better uses for that money and time. The farmer who sacrificed that land would have made more in crops.

3) you are so dumb u can't google huh. K silicon requires smelting you dumb fuck. It unironically takes a nuclear or hydro plant or coal plant to run because of the MEGAWATTS it takes to get glass molten in electric arc furnaces. Then it's treated with hundreds of corrosive and toxic chemicals, which then get dumped into fucking streams and are exhausted to the atmosphere. Of course let's not forget the ground it eventually leeches into as well. And that's if you're doing it right. Wow so much cleaner than burning coal. And did I mention it got heated multiple times at many stages? Wow it takes so little energy to make a solar panel it'll pay back ya.

I mean coal is burned into the air it's so bad but solar panels are so good cause they not only poison air but the ground and the water. So green oohhh la la.

Stupid fuck.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/magazine-archive/the-trouble-with-silicon_10001055/

>>1430552
1. Is an ad for a solar company in Canada. Are you trying to say something?

The government forces the retailer to buy my electricity for less than they buy coal powered electricity?

Yes solar has had billions invested and contributes a small amount. Again what is your point? Coal has had trillions invested and contributes a large amount.

2. That is my argument you mongoloid. Solar works in some places it doesn't in other places. so what? Coal power is uneconomical in some places does that make all coal power a waste of time?

3. You don't even have to google to find the papers posted in this thread showing solar PV more than makes its energy back. As for the rest of the pollution do you think it is better than coal? Do you think that taking the worst possible option for waste disposal is a real argument?

>>1429871
>You know those big solar farms out in the desert i wonder how many pv cells they use?

>>1430304
>But solar does work.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thelocal.it/20150727/mafia-milks-italys-green-energy-boom/amp

https://www.wirelessdesignmag.com/blog/2017/04/idaho-solar-powered-roadway-total-and-epic-failure

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/japans-solar-dream-shatters/

https://www.lgenergy.com.au/faq/buying-a-solar-system/show-me-solar-installation-companies-that-have-left-the-industry-in-australia

>>1430561
1. Yes you keep believing utilities want to buy power back from you at a higher cost because of the goodness in their hearts. A higher cost. Not lower. Your little solar dreams are all subsidized nitwit.

2. >coal
>trillions
Pick one.
https://www.iea.org/publications/wei2017/
More like billions and it contributes to a huge slice of the power pie. Again ur just delusional. Solar aint worth shit.

3. I said solar production is far worse than burning coal for power. I gave u proof. I unironically compared it to coal. There's is nothing "green" about solar. Watt per watt you do more damage with solar. Believe what you want.

>>1429428
Jesus... Actually pretty frightening

>>1429506
Newfggot.

>>1429626
Agreed. We ply with radioactive shit all the time around here. I dont have a tail yet. Whoopity fu kyfuck

>>1429627
I hope it does. Land be cheap qhen you cant put faggot cows on it

>>1429981
No sense in bringing that faggot Moot into this

>>1430587
Right?

>they are getting smarter.

Genocide now

More panels.

Cat that likes to use the array for shade while lounging.

Gotta tidy the wires so she can't pull them out like that. :/

>>1430750
Somehow the image didn't go with the post...

>>1430750
>>1430753
>the array
>chinkshit solar panels mounted on a fucking box on the
Jesus fuck

>>1427781
or for people who don't want to spend lots of cash on gas they have to travel over 50 miles to get, plus oil/filters and other things. Solar works if you get your appliances to run natively off your voltages, with batteries and high capacity capacitors to act as the main storage. Wind and other alternatives(non-blades/low wind setups only) with a optional power draw for high output beyond normal usage options setup.

Propane, while VERY EFFECTIVE FOR HEATING/BURNING, not so effective when needing to be repeatedly refilled/recharged.

Land and property are needed for these systems to be efficient.

>>1430572
>https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thelocal.it/20150727/mafia-milks-italys-green-energy-boom/amp

The mafia is also involved in cheese production. Does that mean cheese is no good?

>https://www.wirelessdesignmag.com/blog/2017/04/idaho-solar-powered-roadway-total-and-epic-failure

You cant drive on top of a coal plant either does that mean coal power is no good?

>https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/japans-solar-dream-shatters/

Turns out replacing a huge chunk of a country's electricity generation is hard work What is your point.

>https://www.lgenergy.com.au/faq/buying-a-solar-system/show-me-solar-installation-companies-that-have-left-the-industry-in-australia

people selling cheap shitf rom china go broke occcasionally. How is this a surprise?

>>1430572
>A higher cost. Not lower

They buy from me at 4c, the absolute lowest price they paid over the last month was $38. So Ignoring all transmission annd conversion costs I was being subsidised for 30min in the past month. But tell me more about my energy market.

But that is just the dollars. If you were being fair and included the cost of environmental damage then we have been subsidising fossil fuels for ever.

>https://www.iea.org/publications/wei2017/
Yep there was more investment in renewables than coal in the one year your report looks at. That says nothing about the trillions that have been invested in coal.

>I said solar production is far worse than burning coal for power.
>I gave u proof.
No you posted an article from a magazine that talks about silicon manufacturing. It made zero mention of coal.

No one is saying solar pv is perfect but it is without a doubt cleaner than coal. Before you post a heap more tangentially related articles why not read them, think about what they say, then try to make an actual argument with the information they present.

>>1430859
So if i'm reading it correctly then at the absolute lowest price you will receive at least $9,120 over the course of 20 years. Not bad

>>1430848
Solar is cleaner than coal huh.

It takes hundreds of toxic chemicals to make a panel, all of which get released into streams and the air. The smelting alone is retarded, just like you. Maybe you don't know what smelting is. Coal requires hydrochloric acid and tallow oil - bovine fat for flocculant and reagentizing. It burns off Co, co2, carbon.. You know like wood. And when it's burned is gone. Solar makes landfill refuse, that is not recyclable and toxic to the dirt when broken. It doesn't breakdown. It doesn't work forever. Coal is being carbon recaptured from the air. It's no different than a forest fire. Solar's impact never goes away and I haven't even mentioned the batteries. You're delusional in thinking it's cleaner.

I'll cherry pick more later, just like you do. I can do this shit all day, cause you see I've worked in these industries and I know what they do in these processes.

I have 600w of panels. And a 24v mppt charge controller that I use to charge up random batteries and then drag them in to run fans and lights.

I'd like to streamline this process and more permanently set it up, but i need a good 24v inverter. What's a good brand? It seems the market is absolutely flooded with cheap garbage.
Should I really go all out on a pure sine wave inverter? Or nah?

>>1428014
>but nobody knows how much is manmade

Even the big oil companies, that wrote the talking points you are repeating, agree it’s manmade at this point. That’s why the big questions these days aren’t “is it man made” but “when did your company know”.

Although based on last weeks rulings those lawsuits are all dead in the water. Looks like big energy wins where tobacco got their asses kicked.

>>1429538
Now I have a square of dead grass to match the one from the inflatable pool.

>>1429506
Take your shitty argument, and replace coal with silicone.
And that's just one of the materials in solar panels.

Another problem is that with solar, you have no energy storage, so battery manufacturing pollution should definitely be a part of it.
Coal power storage is also far far more efficient then even the most advanced batteries for use in solar. You're literally storing the FUEL, all the BTUs, and converting it as efficiently as possible when demand rises and falls.

There is also other means of energy storage, like inertia, or water based pump and release. These can produce almost no pollution, but are quite costly and rely on geological advantages. They are also very inefficient.

>>1431143
You're only looking at the coal burning portion. You're not including the 24/7 maintenance crew on site replacing broken parts every single day. The bowl mills crushing the coal need constant replacement as the ends wear down from crushing coal all day. The boiler needs pressure washing as ash builds up. Pipes and valves are constantly replaced as coal moving through them grind it away from the inside. Sensors go out, heavy machinery such as the box car flipping machine breaks. Stuff is constantly being thrown away every single day from replacement maintenance just so you can save a few pennies powering your home. A solar panel sitting quietly for 20 years needs 0 maintenance and requires 0 resources to upkeep rather than an occasional wiping off of the glass. You literally have no idea what you are talking about

>>1428014
>Carbon dioxide will not kill us, it is not poisonous

Wew lad, stopped reading right there

>>1430750
>>1430746
Those are some pretty big panels, what size are they 270 watts? Sorry if I missed it

>>1431228
>occasional wiping off of the glass
Every week.
I have to wipe them every fucking week, or the amps literally drop to 1/3.
Even if just a tiny bit of it covers one individual cell, the whole array drops in amperage significantly.
It's just not fucking worth it cost wise. Sure, I'll save maybe $5,000 over the course of 20 years, for what? To wipe fucking panels 1500 fucking times in that span?

Say it takes me 30min to do it, at minimum fucking federal wage, that's $5600 bucks.
Trash.

>>1431232
That’s funny didn’t know that.

>>1431232
Depends on where you live I guess. I haven't wiped mine off in a month and I've seen no amperage loss. You'd think in 20 years time you'd be able to come up with a simple automated solution. A simple chain driven gear drive with squeegees attached to a motor you can activate with a push button. Come on bro this is /diy/ work smarter not harder.

>>1430753
Cuuuuute!

>>1431228
I've worked in coal. The refining process is nowhere near as toxic as the chink solar panels. It's when you burn coal that you do the damage. But then, it's over. Solars damage continues way after.

And really u can't even compare the two due to scale, but there's nothing "green" about any of this. In comparison nuclear is the only way to go, and not just because you need nuclear to make solar panels, which you do. Or better, bio methane which I think is a totally squandered vector with way more potential than solar could dream of. In any case 23% efficiency is gay.

You know for a bunch of solar fags noone mentioned the 40% load reduction you get for doing a distributed system vs a central one. Was looking forward to that.

>>1426913
I see the vented to room box but no vent to outside. Have been thinking od using similar but was worried about ventilating the batteries that will be float charged half the day. Do you have any concerns about this? Can you smell it? Any protections (other than the controller) for overcharge condition?

>>1431279
Manufacturing in general will always have drawbacks, but there is no comparison. It's not even close. It's a landslide. The panels are made one time, and that's it. From there they will sit their lives for the next 20 years doing nothing but quietly producing energy. And even after 20 years, they still have 80% of their original efficiency. Coal has to be burned every single day. Every. Single. Day. And it's not just the coal burning. It's more maintenance, more heavy machinery running to bring in more coal, more broken parts to replace. Over and over and over. Coal doesn't stop burning. There is no - "do the damage, then it's over" for a coal plant or else they would be out of business. It is a 24/7 burn of non-stop pollution because you used up your watts yesterday, and now you need to burn again so you can have some today. Surely you don't think burning the coal from a coal plant year after year is the only pollution being created? You ever seen the amount of trash parts those plants throw away? Ever seen how much diesel a coal train or monster sized dump truck uses? Every day for 20 years? Come on buddy....

>>1431284
With a large battery bank ventilation becomes an issue, but in this case it's only one battery in a large garage so there's nothing to worry about. There is no smell or anything. It's similar to how people leave trickle chargers on their batteries with no issues. But even though it's only one battery, you still wouldn't want to put it in a sealed container. Concentrated amounts of hydrogen could build up and cause an explosion. Lead acid batteries contain distilled water, and when you charge a battery you are literally applying electricity to it. It's like when you drop a 9 volt into a cup of water and it starts to bubble around the terminals. Hydrogen bubbles come off the negative terminal and oxygen comes off the positive terminal. Too much buildup and a spark, boom. If you pop the water covers off your battery you'll also see tiny bubbles coming up when it's charging. These are the hydrogen and oxygen elements separating apart, and that's why over time you need to add more distilled water. The only overcharge protection I have is the solar charger, but that's it's job so I'm not worried about it. Truth be told I'm more concerned about the inverter heating up. I haven't ran the setup at full power for a long time yet so I'm not sure how much heat the inverter will produce when it's been under a heavy load for a long time. Guess we'll have to wait and see

>>1431284
Actually now you have me worried... there was a post yesterday and I didn't reply to it so I might die in my sleep. If someone can post immunity dog that would be great I can really use the protection thx

>>1431353
Carbon discharged in the air is reversible. Even the cooling ponds that leach mercury can be recovered. Sulphur dioxide gets scrubbed. The tailings are recoverable and can be pumped back into the mine. But in China the damage is irreversible cause chinks... Hope the new usa plants are responsible with their chems and smelting. But if you knew anything about that you'd also know that there is no such thing a 100 % recovery and containment. It's like a gold plant. You always spill cyanide environment be damned.

I'd rather the pollution of a coal fired plant to run for 20 years than the pollution of the creation of enough solar panels to output that of a coal fired plant, which would actually have to be 6x more than the plant if we base it on the 4hr a day calculation and cover all that land for the 20 years. At 2 gigawatts (which is fuck all) that's a glorious 600000 square feet without gaps. Bout a million if you want room to work with. Then the damage to the landfill which makes it about a triple whammy.

Again solar is great for hobby shit. For small shit. Maybe whole houses in tropical areas where it makes sense. Maybe if one day we change our minds about electrical consumption instead of our standard 10kva/house bullshit. Not solar roadways that will never work. Fields of panels with no benefit but publicity. Tree huggers who make these wild claims that solar will sub out coal or nuclear or hydro. Or assholes who think this shit is without cost because it's not built in his backyard. I mean if everyone wants to circle jerk over solar, consider concentrators not photovoltaics.

And as for your diesel machinery burning all day well that's how u get your goods, ship food, fertilizer (which is way more dense than coal and shipped in crazy amounts) among other things so you can survive and enjoy more solar panels shipped to Walmart cause it's oh so green. C'mon, buddy.... those trains are electric. Put your solar panels on them.

>>1431400
>Tree huggers who make these wild claims that solar will sub out coal or nuclear or hydro.

they only say coal. no one pretends to be able to get rid of the other two with solar. And even there - the goal is renewable energy. Petroleum and coal just can't drive everything forever. Personally, I'd like to make sure we enough natural resources ( coal / natural gas / etc ) to survive the seriously brutal years once the oil starts to run out. Those natural resources should be locked the fuck down, not blown out so top 1% can profit off them.

>>1431400
https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/coal-air-pollution#.W1dDO7gkqUk

Union of Concerned Scientists

>Of coal’s many environmental impacts, none are as harmful, long term, and irreversible as global warming.
>CO2 emissions from combusting fossil fuels are the main driver of global warming.
>Methane often occurs in the same areas that coal is formed, and is released during mining activities. Methane is 34 times stronger than carbon dioxide at trapping heat over a 100-year period and 86 times stronger over 20 years; roughly 10 percent of all US methane emissions come from coal mining.

Check mate

>>1431698
Then stop farming eating meat and driving your car.

And lrn2chess.

So, anyone know a good place to get some large-ish (250 Watt or there about) amorphous panels?


>>1431400
Everyone in this thread that's a 'nay sayer' keeps insisting people are saying that 'the current way we do solar is completely the best and there's nothing wrong with it'.

No one is saying that. We all know that there are drawbacks, especially where environmental regulations are ignored during manufacturing. This is NOT an excuse to abandon the technology, it's an excuse to fucking fix the problems with it, and advance the technology.

Coal is where it is. It's not getting 'greener' no matter what we do. Solar and other renewables get greener over time, as technology improves and provides even more options and produces even less waste.

>>1432026
green energy is unfeasible. show me a 1000MW continuous rated solar/wind plant. the gigawatt station in india only provides the equivalent of 180MW continuous assuming full sunny days. solar powered aluminium smelters just cant exist right now.

global warming is fake

>>1432111
assuming you aren't just trolling - look, these are the people who have spent decades creating that lie. And even they don't pretend its fake anymore. This is from Exxon's website:

The risk of climate change is clear and the risk warrants action. Increasing carbon emissions in the atmosphere are having a warming effect. There is a broad scientific and policy consensus that action must be taken to further quantify and assess the risks.

ExxonMobil is taking action by reducing greenhouse gas emissions in its operations, helping consumers reduce their emissions, supporting research that leads to technology breakthroughs and participating in constructive dialogue on policy options.

>>1432026
Not abandon, but to make people aware that going balls deep into solar is not without ironically causing damage as well. More importnantly, that there is no such thing as "green".

>>1432116
That's a pr statement and you know it.

>>1431698
Mooo mate.
http://www.conservationmagazine.org/2014/03/cows-vs-coal/

>>1431353

what you are overlooking is that for whatever wattage of solar installation you will be building and operating an identical wattage of coal/natural gas plant. solar is not 100% reliable and you need power that is 100% reliable. even in the better locations in the desert or such, you'll still have the equivalent backup power. there's no good solution for kwh storage let alone the gwh that you need to keep modern society going and until then, solar & wind will never replace gas or coal.

>>1432407
The only thing that beats coal is the sense of smugness of a solarfag. Gwh of that stuff around.

Gonna go full solar, homemade battery banks, even micro hydro when I move.

Witness me!

>>1432463
>homemade battery banks

As in making your own battery cells? Or are you talking DIY 18650 bricks?

What chemistry?

>>1432272
Not sure that there's "no such thing as green" possible, but there are always downsides. We just all hope that as the industry matures, those downsides get smaller / less significant.
As I mentioned: No one says it's perfect. But we did say it's an industry with a promising future and the stuff is cool as fuck.

>>1432869
Word, a power plant takes up way more space than the cells in that picture anyway

>>1432869
Show me 1 completely green energy process with no impact to the enviroment from construction to disposal.

Show me one manufacturer that doesn't fuck up and cause envirmental damage, either reportable or not reportable.

Good luck.

>cool as fuck
It's 30 year tech that hasn't been noticed or useful until lithium batteries came out. Credit where credit is due.

>>1433062

>Show me 1
I can't currently. My point is I don't think that there's something that is currently 'completely green', but I believe in the future, it'd be possible to have one that emitted essentially 0 greenhouse gases, and didn't leak any toxins into the environment.

>30 year old tech
Well, some of it is. Efficiency has been improving dramatically in recent years. And new types of panels are on the horizon which is exciting.
And yes, Lithium batteries make renewables way more easy and economical to rely on. :)

>>1433127
But it hasn't improved outside of the lab.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_solar_cells

Lots of good ideas, articles claiming huge efficiency lately but nothing on the market over 30%. Maybe one day, but not today. Another reason I hate it so much. It's selling like CPUs.. One small step, then sell it like crazy, then another small step, but in this case it's not chipzilla it's everyone with the pr. It reminds me of the lightbulb conspiracy.

>>1433132
I certainly also dislike the 'lab only' improvements. :/

With only 21.8% (or there about) max rated efficiency on the commercially available ones, we're certainly hurting for that promised 30% efficiency.

>>1428377
That’s bad ass man, do you use any juice yourself or is it only to sell to the power company? How much did the whole setup cost?

>>1433062
People never call growing switchgrass or whatever and turning it into an ethanol fuel renewable because it's not shitty useless wind or PV meme.

Would have been amazing if we got billions and billions of subsidies for that instead of these useless fuxcking pv panels.

But it makes the communist Willies hard to waste money and mismanage resources

>>1434162
With respect to environmental impact, ironically, this would have the least. But it doesn't have the energy of fossil fuels.

>>1433132
>It reminds me of the lightbulb conspiracy.

You are disregarding how much the cost has gone down. Even in the past 5 years it is just amazing.

solar power is a meme. Always has been. It IS usable for things that require small amounts of power and charging batteries. I used a panel on my boat to charge a battery for a fish finder. But as far as running anything that requires any real juice? Forget about it.

>>1433062
Hydro or wind ain't too shabby, but the thing that kills the relative green-ness is and always will be energy storage. The most green energy storage I have heard of is kinetic; like out west where they use excess energy to haul a train up the side of a mountain and use it to power a generator when they need the stored energy. Not necessarily very efficient, but green AF.

>>1434372
Good for powering things with relatively low energy requirements or where running power lines wouldn't be cost effective, like portable warning signs used by construction workers or storing a truck long term to maintain the battery.

For things like powering an EV, yeah fugettaboutit. It's actually possible with modern technology, but the cost to make that happen is not economical.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2015/08/the-solar-sunflower-harnessing-the-power-of-5000-suns/

>>1434389
What's the benefit of doing this versus a solar steam boiler and using steam to drive a generator? Might have slightly less moving parts, but you need to find a use for the 20kW of hot water production, and it's probably like ten times the cost.

>>1434798
I'm sure there'd be more actual energy output, and the hot water generated would be excellent for colder climates as heating or just general usage. Again, it's possible to generate a decent amount of energy using solar, it just might not be cost effective. Or practical.

>>1434798
>>1434846
It doesn't have the pop. Also you need to use thermal fluid to exchange the heat, that's the secret.

Be better off with micro hydro if you got a 6 foot drop or so.

>>1434372
That is what I have found using solar so far. The cost of electricity here is $0.22 per kwh. Solar is "free."

I needed to power a new shed which, by code, can not be attached to my residential power. No problem I thought, use solar. Plenty of sun.

Using 2 100 watt solar panels and 2 12v sealed lead acid batteries as storage I find I can draw 1 (one) kwh daily without damage to the batteries. Lumping in other stuff such as cables and a cheap inverter that is $250 for panels and $200 for Costco batteries. Say $500. Labor is not included.

That is 2,300 kwh to break even. However, by that time (6 years) the batteries will have gone bad twice because they only can handle 500-800 recycles.

Seriously, at this time solar tied to batteries for off grid storage is a hobby or for special needs.

>>1431232
Considering it is summer time, the average burger here spends how much time and money with lawn and garden maintenance? If no one paid you, would you not wipe your own ass?

>>1435480
Nope I get paid for that too nignog. Why do you think whites are so rich and fat?

>>1431232
It sounds like the panels are wired in series. That raises the voltage, but also has the side-effect of making the panels affect each other. Another option is to run your panels in parallel to raise the amperage but not the voltage. The best option is to use microinverters on every single panel to raise the voltage individually, which uses smaller cables and makes it so panels in shade or dirty only affect their own output.

>>1427963
Boat batteries are deep cycle batteries. Car batteries aren’t and shouldn't be used with solar.

>>1428022
>but will the battery
If you are hobbyist and like to tinker, there are some interesting things you could achieve with supercapacitor setups.

I'm thinking of making a 275 watt system I've got a 75 watt panel gonna get a couple of 100 watters soonish. But I'm wondering about batteries should I get two AGM batteries or 3 flooded deep cycle. Amp hours aside do you guys think AGM batteries are the way to go, or should I get flooded?

>>1436983
For only a 275 watt setup the amp hours should be all you're concerned about. The more amp hours the longer you can run things. Running less batteries will make more amp draw from each battery, and therefore reduce the lifespan. It sounds like 3 batteries will allow you to run more so I'd go that route. The only thing you'd ever have to worry about with lead acid batteries is to top off the water levels, and even then you'd maybe do it once every few years or so. Waaaay worth it to be able to run stuff longer and have increased battery life.

>>1437277
Whats the fucking point without a monitoring system? The empirericaly determined load curves are the truth. That and vpc protection.

>>1435769

for large arrays, microinverters are generally more expensive and less reliable overall. they are also slightly less efficient than string inverters.

there's also an option to use optimzers for string inverters now. this will get around the single poorly operating panel affecting the whole string.

>>1427751
>You know how many energy you could buy for that?
How much could he buy if the lines are down?
Oh, that's right, he doesn't need to buy any because 's supplying some of his own.

>>1429871
As PV gets cheaper and more efficient many farms are shifting away from concentrators to PV
Also much quicker to install

>>1429320
Nuclear waste can be recycled and doped until you get waste that is not significantly radioactive. It's not done because it scares the guys on the other side of the nuclear weapon table.

Safe waste storage is not done because the environmental activists are members of the community party and want to weaken capitalist countries. Sothey stop any permanent storage from being made by protesting shit.h

>>1428856
Also, solar power is just shitty nuclear

>>1439041
It's been 30 years. I await with baited breath

>>1427779
I call bullshit. I searched all of Home Depot and didn't come up with a single generator of this wattage at that price.

I'm trying to run some stuff house stuff off solar. I got this humongous solar panel. And I learned I can run anything except the ac unit which is what I want to run. It's just a avg window unit. So now I'm looking at this 12000 watt inverter. But I was probably gonna just run the ac unit thats half the power bill but I guess I could plug up the other stuff maybe look into powering the water heater and well.

>>1442286
Iv'e been waiting a few months for this, it seems to be working. 3.17 volts going to the battery from the panel. neato.

>>1442286
>12,000 watt inverter
>3.17 volts going to the battery from the panel

I'm confused, do you mean 3.17 amps? Also do you mean 1,200 watt inverter? There's no way 3.17 volts could cover 12,000 watts...

>>1442286
You can run a 5,000 btu window unit off a $30 750 watt inverter if you install a hard-start kit on the window unit. Would be enough to cool down one room in the

>>1444639
Sure it does. 3785.4 amps. Chicken feed for solar.

I use solar at the ranch, have about 12k watts

>>1426913
which direction should I place my solar panels?

Any good guides to learn about solar DIY'ing?

I'm basically looking to convert my van into a weekender RV and would like to put panels on top to power some lights and a small fridge.

>>1444840
Well I’m no scientist but I’d probably say at the sun

>>1444961
The very first thing you’ll need to buy is this. Also get a fridge with the lowest amp rating you can find. There’s usually a sticker inside the fridge with this info on it. Plug the kill-a-watt meter in and measure how many watts it uses in a day, then factor that for how many watt panels you need and how many batteries. Solar is just 4 components really - panel, solar charger, battery, and inverter. One thing that surprised me is just how thick all the cables have to be

>>1444646
That’s bad ass man you got anymore pics? How much did that cost?

>>1445708
out of state for work until the 25th but when I get back I go up to the ranch on the weekends usually.
I'll reply to you with some pics I usually delete everything off my phone so I don't have any here.
It was about 20k total for all the equipment? I tied in a propane generator, which was a few thousand more that does not really need to turn on ever but it's there. The area is east of Buena Vista Colorado so pretty no-where land
I also have a wind turbine that came with the kit. I got a kit of solar panels + wind turbine and the equipment you see on the wall for the charge + convert to AC. Didn't include the batteries (48v arrangement), the wire, the frame I put the panels on, and the generator. Only panels / charge contro /converterl / wind turbine
the thing on the wall I'd say weighs about 300lbs to give an example it's pretty good equipment. I was able to run my power line myself with my bulldozer but the city came out and inspected it 3 times. It's insane you can be miles from anyone else yet they still care if you run power correctly for yourself.

>>1426913
Are you using pwn or mppt controller?

>>1426913
Also if you can connect your devices directly to the battery through a buck step up down converter.

99% of devices you have at home run on DC.
SO what you are doing now is make DC with the solar panel, turn it into AC with the invertor and then the device plugged in the outlet turns it back into DC. This way you are wasting up to a quarter of the power you are using (which get turned into heat). And that is a lot.

>>1445745
yep. It is unfortunate that homes don't use DC instead of AC. It should be converted at the breaker into DC

>>1445708
>>1445712
found this one, from upstairs of the barn

>>1426913
Is solar even worth it? I've been thinking about it for some time but I don't want to waste money if it's just a meme.
I live in Greece and here we have plenty of sun year-round so it's kind of a waste if I don't chime in.

What supplies do I need to get with a budget of $500 max?
Nothing too expensive but I need it to do its job. Also, should I put them on the roof?
I also have plenty of acres of empty fields, but there is of course the chance of them to get stolen there.
Also, at what angle? Flat or tilted?

>>1445806
How much do you pay for electricity?

>>1445465
Wveryone knows upside down works better. Ground reflect even sun rays.

>>1445801
Nice, I assume those are 250 watt panels so about 4,500 watts?

>>1445744
I'm using a 20 amp PWM controller. MPPT is comparatively more expensive and would be overkill for this setup. I saw a bunch of 30 amp controllers for the same price, but they all just showed battery voltage. I went with this one because it also shows the amps coming in from the panel which helps me to determine how much of a charge the battery is really getting. The panel is rated at 6 amps max so I could have up to three 100 watt panels with this controller.

>>1445745
That's a good point but in this case I'm mostly using power tools which all have the outlet plug, so cutting the cord wouldn't really be practical. I know I'm loosing some efficiency but I have yet to drain the battery, and whatever energy I use today will be back tomorrow so it's all good. But I can see how in like an RV setup that may be a more practical way to go. Especially with permanently hard-wiring things like lights, etc.

>>1445860
>>1445863
Well you should know that between the PWM and the inverter you are losing almost half of the free energy you could be getting (a bit less on a cloudy day)
But if you aren't encountering power shortages from empty battery then it's not really and issue. Just know that if you discharge your battery to low frequently it will considerably lower its life span. This goes even for deep cycle batteries. Make sure you have deep cycle one, if you have starter battery (car battery) it will kill it dozens of times faster, because it has much thinner lead plates. AGM deep cycle batteries are the best.

>>1445806
OP here, what supplies you need will really come down to what you are trying to run and for how long. A full setup to run your entire house from solar usually costs around $15,000. For comparison my one outlet setup was $360. If you have $500 you really have three options: You can get an extra panel which will charge the battery faster. This would be good if you're running small stuff every day. You can get an extra battery if you plan to run a lot for a few days, then let it sit for a few days to recharge. Or you can get a better inverter which would allow you to run higher power equipment. 750 watts was about the most power of the cheaper inverters you can get before the price really starts jumping up. For example my 750 watt inverter was $30, and the 1,000 watt inverter was $100 because you had to buy the thick cables separate.

I say doing any kind of solar setup is better than doing nothing, plus this way you have some standby power in case of an outage.

Here's an example of some stuff I can and can't run, and keep in mind most of this stuff is run intermittently. So running a fridge 24/7 is a no-go, but running power tools is fine since they aren't running non-stop. Also I only have a 750 watt inverter, so that's my biggest limitation in terms of things I can power up -

CAN RUN
hammer drill
oscillating tool
jig saw
dremel
angle grinder
charge headlamp
charge cordless drill battery
charge phone
charge bluetooth speaker
charge toothbrush
charge razor
coffee grinder
toaster
kitchenaid mixer
blender
food processor
hand mixer
Samsung normal sized fridge
curling iron
router
tv

CAN'T RUN
5,000 btu window unit (would work if hard-start kit was installed)
large keurig coffee maker (requires lot of heat, too much electricity needed)
blow dryer (requires lot of heat, too much electricity needed)
circular saw
table saw
30 gal air compressor
leaf blower (800 watts, so close)
shop vac (works if I turn on inverter first w/ shop vac already in on position.)

>>1428366
Isn't it incredible how few nuclear disasters there are when we're stuck using technology from the 60s because politics won't allow us to use the better updated tech? Or how we can make reactors that run off waste material from current reactors, but polititians prefer dumping it in pits?

>>1445867
Yeah it's a Harbor Freight inverter and from what I hear it's only about 80% efficient. You get what you pay for I guess. No issues on full loss of power so far, but I did drain the battery to about 10.5 volts on a camping trip. That's how this whole thing got started. Went on a camping trip to a site without power, picked up the inverter because $30 why not. Had half the solar supplies at that point, figured why not buy the rest when I got back. Grossly underestimated the amount of amps that would get used for the trip though and ended up draining the battery until the inverter auto-shutdown. Was running a fan, charging phones, running christmas lights, etc. Didn't have a volt meter going so didn't realize until it was too late. Protip: when calculating amps don't forget that 120 volts AC is what will be needed at the power end, and 12 volts DC is what will be given from the battery. Make sure you use the correct volt in your calculation, it's roughly a 10:1 difference. A .3 amp appliance will use about 36 watts (.3 amps x 120 volts) but it will actually drain about 3 amps from your battery (36 watts / 12 volts = 3amp.) Fucked that up big time. Anyway came back and battery would only charge to 55%. Added more water to the cells and it went back to 100% charge, but a bunch of acid spilled out because I guess I overfilled the cells. I know the battery isn't perfect anymore but it's working fine for this setup anyway

What's this about using UPS units for clean power?

>>1445854
your scale is small, each panel is 8ft by 4ft lol

>>1445854
according to my phone app I'm getting 434 watts per panel currently (estimated) It's at 9,800ft above sea level so I'm pretty sure that adds a lot of sun strength vs 0ft above

>>1428865
What most don't realize is how much power the sun gives off. There's power for everyone. it's literally wirelessly charging earth across one AU in a vacuum. Now that's how you do wireless charging - One big fucking light outputting every type of EMR.

>>1428866
>>1429148
>https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/jun/19/thisweekssciencequestions.weaponstechnology
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerability_of_nuclear_plants_to_attack#Implications
>https://thebulletin.org/2013/10/converting-a-civilian-enrichment-plant-into-a-nuclear-weapons-material-facility/
>Exactly the same machines that produce nuclear fuel can produce weapons material. That is why uranium enrichment technology is inherently dual-use. Any civilian enrichment facility can be used to produce nuclear weapons material.

>>1429148
>>1429209
>delete knowledge
You are jumping to conclusions faggot. That's not what was said.

Shit meta thread. It should be about making solar devices, not why or why not to use solar.

>>1446475
So because nuclear refineries can make weapons grade we should use solar.

So you think the sun is enough for everyone.

Ok. Run the trains on it. C'mon I'm waiting.

>>1444639
yeah, I think it was for something else. I think I can do it with a 1000 watt inverter with 3000 surge. I'm try it some time. I have a few different inverters now. well I can run a lot of things.

>>1426913
Thanks, OP!

>>1446866
buy one of these >>1445473 and see how much the window unit uses, then you'll know what size inverter to buy. They make "hard start" kits you can buy on Amazon that are essentially a giant capacitor for your ac unit. The hard start kit will provide the big burst of energy needed to get the ac running from a dead stop, so you will need less surge amps from your inverter.

>>1447139
this looks good, thx.

>>1444840
Up

>>1445473
>One thing that surprised me is just how thick all the cables have to be
Except they don't. Connect your panels in series instead of parallel and you can use thin cables.

>>1447139
I think it might need batteries with a real high surge. So if I hook up 6 batteries in parallel and wire them to this inverter(3000 watt surge), it should run right?

>>1446475

there are reactors reactor types that can operate without enriched uranium, CANDU reactors being one.

>>1447715
One battery would be more than enough to create a large enough surge, but remember it's 100% up to the inverter only to actually provide the surge. The average deep cycle (marine/RV) battery is rated for around 600 CCA (cold cranking amps) This means that the battery should be able to provide 600 amps for at least 30 seconds which would be more than enough surge time to start whatever. 600amps x 12 volts = 7,200 watts one battery can produce for 30 seconds (the surge). However your inverter can only produce 3,000 surge watts without popping a fuse, so your limitation on being able to start anything is your inverter. Of course the more batteries you have the longer you can run something, but the actual kick needed to get something in motion from a dead stop (i.e. the surge) will come from your inverter only. If whatever you are trying to run won't start, you'll need to get a bigger inverter. Pick up that Kill-A-Watt tool and plug your window unit into it. Cut it on and see how much surge watts it uses, then buy an inverter that can produce that many watts. For only $20 it's pretty cool to go around the house and see how much power things use.

>>1426913
>I can also run the fridge for about half a day in the event of a power out.
Then can I run my desktop PC with this setup? it got a 230V PSU and the wattage it uses I never measured it but it shouldn't be higher than the average prebuilt PCs they sell nowadays.

>>1446555
What? Trains? I mean... there are electric trains... I'm not even understanding what you're on about.

While the train wouldn't be powered by panels ON the train, more like huge amounts of grid-tied renewables (solar, wind, hydro)... Electric trains are electric trains.
They work no matter where the electricity from the grid comes from.

Current battery tech doesn't really lend itself well to all-electric trains right now, that's why you still see a lot of diesel electrics at the moment. But that will change in the future. More rail lines will have power along them (as inner city trams do, or similar), and battery tech continues to improve, so you'll probably see all-electric replacements for diesel-electric trains in the next 20 years.

>>1448991
To clarify, battery technology right now doesn't lend itself well to all-electric, self-contained trains; IE replacements for where diesel-electrics are used currently.
Battery technology isn't relevant at all to current electric trains, as they're generally fed through the rails or overhead wires.

ITT: Anon just started a train argument in the middle of an Autism station.

>>1448991
>solar, wind
No. Just no not a chance for a train unless its an amusement ride for toddlers.
>all electric replacements for diesel electric in 20 years
Sure when the energy density beats diesel. I'll even give u the engine/generator weight. But let me explain how retarded this is:
An average agricultural rail car is allowed about 258000 lbs track limit. This is the same for most cars and is a good number to use as everything gets loaded to the tits in ag. Average train length is around 180 cars and 3 engines. Each engine is about 2500hp each. That's 46.4 million lbs for 7500hp going highways speed. That's 5.59MW.
Now for the retard part: the best rechargeable batteries are at best 150wh/lb. Diesel is over 10kwh/lb. Lithium came out in the 80s by John Goodenough. It's been 40 years and we only figured out how to manufacture them for the masses. There has been no moving forward with the tech. It's not getting better, it's just being sold. The last innovation before that was about 50 years beforehand and the energy density went up 4x. We need to go another 100x for trains or actual useful shit like wind and dare I say it solar if it can ever get better as well (which it hasn't in 20 years).
And as for all electric cargo trains on a network it won't happen either due to the voltage drop over all that distance. Would make sense for short distances but it can be uncontrollable maintenance wise. Unless you're Japan.

I'm so sick of this hurr durrr batteries are getting better durrr ull see well run trains and everything will be green shit while disposing lithium of all things in trashcans and playing with 20 year old tech that's been glamorized by clueless millennials with vapes tipping their fedoras at solar fricken roadways that generate 10 cents a year for every 1000 dollars invested and totally ignorant of the fact that you lose half the output after a year or so of service while generating a nice bunch of toxic shit to end up in landfill.

>>1429538
No it doesn't. I've cut down 3"dia birch saplings from under tables. Vines grow following the uprights. Grass grows there too. Vegetation growing up from under tables and blocking the panels is constant maintenance.

Protip from someone in the business: After installation, instead of seeding with grass or waiting for weeds to grow, seed with a white clover ground cover. it costs about the same as a bag of grass seed. It mats preventing weeds from growing, and grows slowly minimizing the need for mowing and trimming.

>>1448991
electric just moves the smoke stack outside of the city. morons think just because they can power their house with solar means solar/wind or any renewable is a viable REPLACEMENT for coal/gas. there's barely enough solar capacity in the world to power a single small aluminium smelter. guess what your panels are made of?

diesel electrics are a thing because it doesnt matter if you're farting from a mobile diesel smoke stack in the middle of the wilderness.

>>1449549
there are innovations in the proprietary cobalt/carbon/lithium doped mixtures. problem is that it's advancing at a very slow rate and your trade off is that it's economically nonviable.

>>1449754
>there's barely enough solar capacity in the world to power a single small aluminium smelter.

Wasn't aware "small" aluminum refineries were in the >300GW range...and that's not including thermal solar..

PV's got plenty of problems (the LEAST of which is installed capacity), but to outright dismiss the viability of photovoltaics is dumb as hell, and that's even ignoring the possibility (probability) of thin-film PV starting to beat out silicon in terms of total cost per watt.

>So you think the sun is enough for everyone.

Considering the sun delivers in excess of 1.5 million _petawatt_ hours per year of power to the earth's surface...no, I'd say about 0.01% of the sun is enough for everyone at the moment. Solar's viability has very little to do with the availability of the energy in question, and much more to do with our ability to actually use it.

>>1449766
>Considering the sun delivers in excess of 1.5 million _petawatt_ hours per year of power to the earth's surface...no, I'd say about 0.01% of the sun is enough for everyone at the moment. Solar's viability has very little to do with the availability of the energy in question, and much more to do with our ability to actually use it.

Pity the novelty of less than 0.01% of that 0.01% is being sold under the guise being green. I don't disagree with this view of availability but I see investment into the industry as a fools gold rush. Only the salespeople benefit. Never have I seen actual advancement after all this hype over the past 6 years. I wish to be shown otherwise.

>>1448912
Google says the average PC+monitor uses around 300 watts per hour. Let's say you game for 5 hours, that's 1,500 watts you'll need to run your setup for that amount time. To get an accurate number you'd need to get one of these >>1445473 and leave it running while playing to total up the actual watts you used. But for this sake let's just say you need 1,500 watts to game for 5 hours. 1,500 watts / 12 volts = 125 amps you'd need to game for that long. The average deep cycle battery is rated for 100 amps before being fully discharged so you'd think 2 batteries would theoritically get you covered, but in the real world you really don't want to discharge the battery more than 50% to keep it healthy. Note if you do discharge it more than 50% then when you recharge the battery it will hold less and less of a charge each time, which means less and less run time in the future. So in this case 3 batteries would give you 300 amps maximum before not being able to recharge anymore, or safely 150 amps before being able to recharge and start over. That would give you the power you need, and also realistically allow for the loss of efficiency that will occur from the inverter. So 3 batteries would be the minimum to game for 5 hours. But you also need solar panels to provide the re-charge, and now the question becomes are you gaming every single day or waiting a day or so for the system to recharge and then playing again. A 200 watt panel can typically recharge one deep cycle battery in a day, so 600 watts of solar should be enough to recharge the system. But that's provided it's a sunny day and you do not play at all that day. There's definitely other factors to consider and also some math involved, but that should give you an idea.

>>1451393
Why? PC's can run on 12 24 or 48vdc. Why make your own ups. It's gay and expensive for little gain.

>>1451529
>PC's can run on 12 24 or 48vdc

No, they can't. Not out of the box, anyway. Doubly so if your PSU has active power correction, like almost all of them have had for years. You'll either need to hack your power supply (potentially dangerous without experience), buy an ATX supply that accepts low-voltage DC as input (niche and therefore expensive as hell, from what I've seen), or make your own supply that provides all the necessary power rails.

Now, if you're on a laptop, that's a different story...

>>1451533
>niche
https://www.powerstream.com/DC-PC-5.htm
Enterprise machines all have DC PSU as options. I buy hundreds of them from hp, Dell etc. I just have to find the catalog number and order. Furthermore regulating 48 to 12, 5, 3.3 etc is much easier then doing switch mode and way more stable. Inverters and vac psus are way more costly. Drawback of 48 is u need a bit more gauge on the cabling when you have large distributions and your grounding is different. They're "niche" because people don't know fuck all about this shit so it don't sell on amazon. IMHO if you're gonna be a minimalist electricity consumer on solar and battery, inverting then converting in the house is not as efficient as it should be.

>>1447674
Then, if one panel isn't conducting, none of them conduct... Bad idea.

O think figured it out. the inverter is good enough O just need like 6*12 volt batteries wired in a seris to get the amps up to 112 and like 5 panels. save 100 a month. payed off in 8 months.?

>>1452378
Wiring in series will only raise the voltage, and as I assume your inverter is only 12 volt you would pop a fuse. You'll want to wire everything in parallel to raise the amperage. One deep cycle battery can produce 100 amps on a one time discharge, or safely 50 amps and then be able to recharge again. Three batteries would give you 150 amps which would give you what you need, but the more batteries the better. More batteries means less of a discharge between each one, so they will last longer and you can have extra power in the one-off event you need it. Check out pic related, make sure you take your positive and negative wire leads from opposite ends of the connection. This will allow approximately the same amount of amp withdrawal from each battery, so each battery will wear down evenly.

>>1452378
$600 - six batteries
$550 - five 100 Watt panels
$30 - 40amp PWM solar charge controller
$50 - 25 feet of red/black 0 gauge wire for battery connections
$60 - 24 battery terminal connectors
$30 - MC4 Y-connectors for panels
$30 - 10 gauge wire from solar panel to charge controller
$80 - misc install parts, heat shrink, screws, mounting brackets, wingnuts for battery terminals, etc.

Tax and all that setup is gonna run you at least $1,400 dollars. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things here and there but at least budget for that much.

What's a reasonable price for SLA? $2 per A?

I need to run 13w 24/7. I have a 75w panel kicking shit in my shed just need batteries, 50A 12v should do?

>>1453300
13w x 24 hours = 312 watts needed per day
Next multiply times 3 to account for cloudy days so 312 watts x 3 = 936 watts
936 watts / 12 volts = 78 amps needed
An average deep cycle battery is rated for 100 amps hours which means it can produce 100 amps one time and never be recharged, or it can safely produce 50 amps and be recharged over and over. Two average deep cycle batteries will produce the 100 amps needed provided they are wired in parallel. The 75 watt panel might be enough to recharge your system each day but it really just depends on where you're at. I'd grab an extra 75 watt panel just in case. Remember realistically the setup will only be about 80% efficient in terms of what things are rate for and what you actually get.

>>1453593
Why don't you solar flags use vpc like normal people?

>>1453593
Yeah but the panel should run the equipment for the 6 or something hours of good sunlight even in the winter.
I mean I live in California, not some no sun country like the UK

>>1453598
What is vpc?

>>1453604
Probably, you only need about 1 amp of power per hour which isn't much. The 75 watt panel is more than enough to provide it, but for the other 18 hours you are going to be relying on the battery only for power. And you need to fully charge it up so you can do it all over again tomorrow. This is why another panel and battery will be necessary

>>1454523
Volts per cell.

>>1454527
>one amp of power
>amp of power
Abandon thread she's sinking into the abyss of bs...

>>1454553

/diy/ + electricity is magic

>>1454559
And u can never have enough shitty batteries and solar panels. They put that shit on everything.
>>1453300
This poor fuck is being given the platinum package.

I am an absolute newb at this meme but I am interested in off grid living. I want to plan for the long term so what can I expect in terms of half life? What kind of power storage and panels will last the longest?

Bit of shit to wade through, but learned a little. Cheers folks.

>>1426922
why not put the batteries in the shed? that's not just hydrogen coming off a LEAD ACID battery. your kids will get retarded

>>1449549
>there are no innovations in lithium
>what is lifepo4
>what is liS
Stopped reading, straight into trash goes.

>>1445745
Inverters are obsolete. You can now buy 12v appliances, lights, desktop pc power supply, televisions, and run them straight off the batteries in your solar setup.

replace the element in your water heater, with a 12v element

>>1445900
Power: 168 watt 12vDC
DC is more efficient at making heat than AC
throw away your AC hair dryer

coffee maker (requires lot of heat, too much electricity needed)

>>1457801
12 volt systems are small time. Most serious off grid systems are 24 volt or more. The main issue with low voltage systems is all the copper needed to transfer the power.

>>1457798
>Lifepo4
>1996
>LiS
>As of 2014 it didn't exist commercially
>still doesn't not expected for 2 years
Into the trash you go.

>>1457803
>DC is more efficient at making heat than AC
>throw away your AC hair dryer

Will someone please amend the laws of physics given this new discovery.

>>1451564
>https://www.powerstream.com/DC-PC-5.htm

Two-hundred-and-twenty dollaridoos. For a 400W PSU.

For reference, nearly the same price would get you a fully modular, brand-name PSU with 133A available on the 12V rail.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2F84BD0460

I do believe, comparatively, the DC-input one is a shit value for you money. Because there are almost no use cases for it, Which means it's niche.


>Furthermore regulating 48 to 12, 5, 3.3 etc is much easier then doing switch mode and way more stable

It's also hilariously inefficient, which is why it isn't done without good reason. You do realize that the power supplies you linked are switching supplies, right?

>>1458381
They're all switch modes buddy.

>>1427751
how much does the power company pay you to shill for them?

first off the power company doesn't just sell electricity by the watt, they charge you $30 a month just for the privilege of having an account with them, then they charge you per kwatt/hr

so in a 20 year span (240 months) the power company bills you $7200 for nothing
That would pay for a decent system for your home, plus repairs.

then figure the electric cost.
0 dollars per kilowatt/hr from the sun
1 megawatt of power costs you nothing

.13 cents per kw/hr from the power company
1 megawatt of power costs you $13,000.00

you'll also pay additional taxes, on the state local and federal levels that are related to the power company. thousands of dollars more

>>1458456
>1mw
In solar that's acres worth of panels. At $1m in install costs, "scaled" (obviously not covering distribution and other stuff). In a 20 year span you'll have to do this 4x.
>hurr durr I'll sell it back to the utilities
If you have the service entrance from the grid. Most do not, and that would require modifications to you utility line. This won't be free, nor is a utility obliged to buy it all back. I'd guesstimate around +5m the first time you try.
>the power company bills you for nothing
Right because the meters, distribution equipment, substations, line maintenance, breaker maintenance and employee wages are "free".
How much do the solar companies pay you to shill them?
https://news.energysage.com/solar-farms-start-one/

>>1457803
>DC is more efficient at making heat than AC
Oh yeah? By how much? Show your math.
You're an idiot and you don't know, but I just want to see your answer.

>>1451564
>Furthermore regulating 48 to 12, 5, 3.3 etc is much easier then doing switch mode and way more stable.
Those are *ALSO* switching power supplies. Prove me wrong.

>>1458634
Of course they are. But DC to DC is always more efficient than ac to dc

>>1458456
Get your fucking units and math right if you're going to argue numbers. It's kWh not kw/hr. kw/hr looks like kilowatts per hour which is meaningless for this discussion.
Anyway more to the point: it's 13 cents from the power company per kWh, not .13 cents.
>1 megawatt of power costs you $13,000.00
You don't buy power "by the megawatt", so you must have meant one megawatt-hour, which is 1000 times a kilowatt hour, so one megawatt-hour would cost $0.13 * 1000 = $130 -- not 13 grand.
Convince yourself that price per megawatt-hour is reasonable here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

>the power company bills you $7200 for nothing
>0 dollars per kilowatt/hr from the sun
>1 megawatt of power costs you nothing
Hydrocephalic levels of retardation. The panels aren't free and thus your power isn't free. It's like saying hydro power is free because it comes from rainfall - this ignores the cost of a dam, turbines, generator, maintenance, infrastructure, etc.
Just because the power company charges you a basic customer fee doesn't mean you get to ignore the cost of solar panels, installation, snow clearing, batteries, charger, inverter etc and maintenance in your calculation.

I say all this as someone who believes solar is entirely viable where grid hookup isn't available.
Unlike the other guy I don't believe you're a shill, a shill would actually get their units and costs right instead of spilling gibberish out their dicksucker.

>>1458665
>shills only speak facts, verified data, and correct units, a shill would never lie or mislead you in any way. Shills are the most honest people who ever lived

In 2016, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,766 kilowatthours (kWh), an average of 897 kWh per month. Louisiana had the highest annual electricity consumption at 14,881 kWh per residential customer and Hawaii had the lowest at 6,061 kWh per residential customer.

In 2014, the average residential monthly electric bill was $114.09, according to the Energy Information Administration (EIA). $1369.08 per year

$1369.08
x20 years
--------------
$27381.60

Install your own solar, from Home Depot
$6433.82
minus energy rebates and tax deductions over 20 years
$-24,000
--------------
free!!!!

>>1459021

>>1459021
you can't count on those rebates and exemptions being available for 20 years. Power company lobbyists are working hard to get rid of them.

You had to out of pocket invest in your system
If you had bought stock in a power company instead, you would have made $20 less broker fees.
And you forgot to mention selling your excess power back to the power company. You don't get 13 cents from the power company. You get cucked at 3 cents if they give you anything at all, usually you only get credit during nighttime hours, during the day the power company just takes it and gives you nothing.

>>1459021
Panel output degrades every year. Try again.

>>1459097
sell your old panels and batteries every 2 years on offerup or craigslist hipsters love vintage oxidized stuff. They pay extra for that.
use that money to buy new ones, and your system is always tip top.

>>1459117
Confirmed the whole industry is a scam.

>>1459021
Fuck off you smelly alibaba chink android.

I worked a a solar company, they also did some roofing stuff with vent fans. Knabbed about 15 of the panels off the return pile, the panels apparently had bad fan bearings.

Who knew you needed fan bearings to charge two small 12v deep cycle batteries in an ammo tin.

>>1459712

Whoa, my bad. Apparently they're AGM. Did this 10 months ago.

>>1429209
>Nuclear waste is literally just very hot irradiated metal pellets that you can bury in the desert or in a mountain where it can do no harm to anybody

Im pro nuke power, but this statement is either intentionally misleading or incredibly misinformed

>>1459861
currently most nuclear waste is dumped in the north part of Australia where it can't hurt anyone.
imb4 aborigines, they were already like that.

>>1429428
>learnt